>> FAMILIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE IN LIMBO AS MEDICAL FACILITIES ARE PUTTING IN VITRO FERTILIZATION OR IVF TREATMENTS ON HOLD.

IT COMES AFTER LAST MONTH'S CONTROVERSIAL ALABAMA SUPREME COURT RULING THAT FROZEN EMBRYOS SHOULD BE PROTECTED AS CHILDREN.

THE DECISION HOLDS INDIVIDUALS LIABLE FOR EMBRYOS THAT GET DESTROYED, CAUSING MANY PROVIDERS TO PAUSE TREATMENTS OUT OF FEAR OF CRIMINAL CHARGES.

JOINING US TO DISCUSS THE BATTLE OVER REPRODUCTIVE MEDICINE IN THE U.S. ARE DOCTOR ERIC ALLOWED REPRODUCTIVE ENDOCRINOLOGIST AND INFERTILITY SPECIALIST AT KINDS BODY LORI'S OLOF PROFESSOR OF RELIGIOUS ETHICS AT UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO.

MATTHEW THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR BIOETHICS AND HUMAN DIGNITY AT TRINITY INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY.

AND JOINING US VIA ZOOM, RITA, GETTEL, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO THE NONPROFIT LAW FIRM, THE THOMAS MORE SOCIETY.

THANKS TO ALL 4 OF YOU FOR JOINING US.

DOCTOR ALLOWED TO START WITH YOU.

PLEASE GIVE US A BRIEF EXPLANATION OF WHAT IDF IS, HOW IT WORKS.

FUTURE FOR A STATION.

IVF IS A FOR SYSTEMIC THAT PRODUCTIVE TECHNOLOGY COUPLES ARE DOING IT FOR WEAKEN THE SYSTEM.

>> SO MAYBE DIFFERENT DIAGNOSIS TO PULL FACTOR INFERTILITY.

SAME COUPLES DIMINISHED.

OVARIAN RESERVE.

NO FACTOR.

SO MANY MEDICAL HEALTH, THINGS CAN CAUSE THE.

SO NOW THE CDC HAS RECOGNIZED THIS AS THE DISEASE IS NOT ELECTIVE.

SO COUPLES CHOOSE TO HAVE THEIR FAMILIES THIS WAY SO THAT THEY CAN DO IN VITRO FERTILIZATION.

WE TAKE THEM TO A SURGICAL PROCEDURE, GET AS MANY WE CAN FERTILIZE THOSE ACTS WITH THEIR PARTNERS FROM A DONOR.

THEY WATCH THOSE EMBRYOS GROW AND A COACH, A SYSTEM IT.

EMBRYO BLASTOCYST, WHICH IS HE WAS THE DAY 5 TO 7 AFTER CRITICAL SURGERY AT THAT POINT.

NOW COUPLES CAN CHOOSE TO CHANCE FOR DIRECTLY THEY CAN TEST THEIR AND THOSE WITH SOMETHING CALLED PRE IMPLANTATION GENETIC TESTING TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE THE HEALTHIEST EMBRYOS PRODUCED MISCARRIAGE CAN INCREASE THE SUCCESS RATE.

SO THERE'S SO MANY OPTIONS THAT OUT THERE.

BUT THAT'S WHAT IVF VERY AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S GROWN QUITE A WITH TECHNOLOGY OVER THE YEARS.

MATTHEW, AFTER THOUGH, YOUR ORGANIZATION, YOU'VE GOT SOME CONCERNS WITH THE USE OF AS A AS A WAY OF CREATING A FAMILY.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS?

YEAH, WELL, AS WE WHEN THE AND EGG TONIGHT, A NEW HUMAN PERSON COMES INTO BEING.

AND SO IT REALLY IS A QUESTION OF HOW WE TREAT THOSE HUMAN PERSONS, HOW WE CARE FOR THEM.

>> AND THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAIN QUESTION AT ISSUE.

REALLY GET TO WHAT WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE ALABAMA SUPREME COURT DECISION?

>> FOUND IT VERY INTERESTING THAT THERE'S A CULTURE OF LIFE IN ALABAMA.

THERE IS NO DISPUTE BETWEEN THE CLINIC AND BETWEEN THE PARTIES WHOSE EMBRYOS WERE NEGLIGENTLY DESTROY THAT.

WHAT WAS AT STAKE WAS HUMAN LIFE.

AND SO THAT WAS NOT A MATTER OF DISPUTE.

THE DISPUTE ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS WHETHER WE TREAT THE ON BORN IN HUMAN EMBRYOS.

WHETHER IN THE BODY ARE OUT OF THE BODY IS PEOPLE OR IN PROPERTY.

AND WE BELIEVE THAT HUMANS DESERVE HUMAN RIGHTS STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT.

>> LOT.

SAME QUESTION TO YOU.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE SUPREME COURT'S RULING?

THIS IS A PROFOUNDLY RELIGIOUS QUESTION WHEN LIFE BEGINS WHEN HUMAN LIFE BEGINS IS A RELIGIOUS QUESTION THAT RELIGIOUS TRADITIONS SUCH AS MY OWN AND MY COLLEAGUES HERE HAVE BEEN DEBATING FOR IT.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS.

RIGHT?

AND IN FACT, IT'S IT'S MENTIONED IN HEBREW SCRIPTURE THAT, IN AND WHEN A WOMAN IS PREGNANT, THE SHE'S CARRYING, EVEN THEN AS IF USE IT TO LIFE DOESN'T COUNT AS A LIFE ISN'T A HUMAN BEING WHEN HUMAN LIFE BEGINS IS A RELIGIOUS QUESTION.

NOT A POLITICAL QUESTION.

IT'S NOT EVEN REALLY FULLY A BIOLOGICAL QUESTION.

IT'S A COMPLEX THEOLOGICAL CLAIM.

AND WHEN WE SAY THAT A HUMAN THAT WE HAS RIGHTS, THAT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT I DO IS TO THAT PERSON MIGHT BE IN JUDAISM AND ISLAM AND HINDUISM AND BUDDHISM.

THOSE BEGIN WITH A CHILD IS BORN COMES A MEMBER OF THE HUMAN COMMUNITY.

NOT WHEN IT'S CREATED A DISH.

THE DOCTOR ALLOWED AND WHAT IS LIKE THIS MEAN FOR PROVIDERS LIKE REPRODUCTIVE ENDOCRINOLOGIST, THOSE WHO ARE IN ALABAMA.

>> BUT ESPECIALLY FOR FAMILIES WHO DEPEND ON IVF IS A WAY TO GROW THEIR FOR THEIR IS VERY RESTRICTIVE.

SO IS DISHEARTENING.

PEOPLE ARE LOSING HOPE BECAUSE THE WHOLE POINT OF IVF IS TO GROW YOUR FAMILY, EXPAND IT.

IF YOU'RE DEALING WITH INFERTILITY.

NOW WE HAVE RESTRICTIONS WHERE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO DO IT.

AND WE SEE THAT HAPPEN IN ALABAMA WHERE CLINICS, UNIVERSITIES, WHERE FOR OPTIONS SHUT DOWN THINGS.

PATIENTS IN THE MIDDLE THERE CYCLES WERE NOT LET OUT TO GO SO THAT PUSH IN THAT PLACE WHERE WHAT DO YOU DO NEXT?

AND THEN?

OKAY, SHIP BILLS?

WELL, THAT'S A BIG LEGAL THING THAT YOU CAN TO SAY.

YES, WHEN IT'S SHUT CHANCE FOR BILLS TO ILLINOIS INTO MY CHANCE FOR LEGAL.

NO.

SO IT PUTS A LOT OF FEAR AND ANXIETY AND IT DESTROYS THE WHOLE PROCESS IS WHAT THE PATIENTS ARE TRYING TO DO.

WE BELIEVE THAT IS BETWEEN THE DOCTOR AND PATIENT.

OUR GOAL NOT TO CREATE WHAT THE PATIENT TO HAVE AUTONOMY.

WE WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM AND THEIR FUTURE.

AND I AGREE WITH THAT THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL THING.

THIS IS A VERY PERSONAL THING.

AND YES, WE CAN DEBATE ABOUT WHERE HUMAN LIFE STARS, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT OXFORD DICTIONARY AND BIOLOGY TEXTBOOK THAT EMBRYO HAS, IT IS A RUDIMENTARY POTENTIAL FRIED DEVELOPMENT.

IT IS NOT A PERSON THEY CANNOT SURVIVE AFTER THERE FOR SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS CHILD, OR EVEN A FETUS FOR THAT MATTER.

OF COURSE, YOU KNOW IT SHOULD BE MADE CLEAR THAT THE PROCESS OF IVF NOT ONLY COULD BE VERY INVASIVE, BUT ALSO VERY EMOTIONAL IS A LOT RIDING ON THAT PROCESS ACTUALLY TIME ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY VERY TELLING.

>> IT'S NOT FOR ITS PLANS TO PATIENTS IS NOT A SPRINT.

IT'S A MARATHON BECAUSE WE DO KNOW THAT IVF CYCLE SUCCESS RATES.

NATIONAL AVERAGE OF 35 IS 50% IS NOT 100% INCREASES.

THE SUCCESS RATE SLIGHTLY, BUT IT COULD TAKE MULTIPLE CYCLES OF YES, PRE IMPLANTATION, SYNTHETIC TESTIFY.

EARLIER DEPLOY BECAUSE WE'RE TESTING TO SEE IF EMBRYOS COMMENTS ON THE NORMAL SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE A HEALTHY CHILD, NOT ONE THAT YOUR CHANCES OF HAVING A HEALTHY GONE TO THE PROCESS.

MATTHEW ORGANIZATION BELIEVES BELIEVES THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IVF IS USED IT SHOULD USED TO LEAD TO THE CREATION SORRY OF MULTIPLE EMBRYOS.

>> WELL, THEY REALLY RANGE OF OPINIONS WHEN IT COMES TO HAVING LOCALS AND IVF.

SO WOULD SAY THAT.

>> LIKE SHOULDN'T BE CREATED IN A LAB, OTHERS WOULD SAY ONLY CREATE AS MANY AS YOU'RE GOING TO TRANSFER AND YEARS AND NOT FREEZE THEM OTHERS WOULD BE FINE WITH FREEZING THEM FOR A TIME BUT REALLY WANTING THAT ORIGINAL COUPLE TO GO ON A TRANSFER THOSE TO FIT ALL POSSIBLE.

SO THERE'S A RANGE OF OPINIONS.

BUT AGAIN, COMING BACK TO CARING WELL FOR THE EMBRYO, I'M SEEING THEM AS HUMAN BEINGS FULL OF POTENTIAL RATHER THAN POTENTIAL HUMAN BEINGS.

>> A ALABAMA'S RULING HOLDS THAT ARE ACCOUNTABLE IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG, SHOULD SHOULD THIS BE PUNISHABLE OFFENSE?

>> WELL, IF YOU ASK ANY FAMILY WHO LOST THEIR EMBRYOS, WHETHER IN OHIO IN THE FREEZER FAILURE THERE, SHOULD THERE BE SOME REMEDY WHEN THE EMBRYOS OR NEGLIGENTLY DESTROYED?

I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY YES, THERE SHOULD BE A REMEDY.

AND SINCE THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS, SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO HAVE THE REMEDY GIVEN TO A HUMAN BEING?

CAN IT BE A JURY QUESTION TO WHAT SHOULD BE AWARDED?

CAN WE TRUST OUR JURIES TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION?

I THINK WE CAN.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT STRIKES ME THAT THERE'S ALL THIS PANIC LOUISIANA HAS TREATED EMBRYOS IS JURIDICAL PERSONS SINCE THE GET-GO THAT THIS ISN'T NEW.

THIS IS FIRST TIME EMBRYOS ARE TREATED AS SOMETHING OTHER THAN PROPERTY.

I'M SURPRISED IN A WAY AND ALL OF BECAUSE LOUISIANA FANT THE THAT, IT'S ACTUALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IN A SCRIPTURE THEY ARE TREATED AS PROPERTY.

>> WHEN THEY'RE LOST, THEY'RE TREATED.

THAT THE FINE FOR THEM?

MISTER PROPERTY.

THEY MAKE A DISTINCTION.

HE WAS SCRIPTURE.

AN EXODUS BETWEEN HUMAN PROPERTY AND THE LOSS OF A HUMAN LIFE.

IT'S A VERY, VERY CLEAR DISTINCTION.

ONE OF THE FEW ACTUALLY.

AND HE SCRIPTURE.

SO IT HASN'T BEEN DISPUTE.

WHAT'S WONDERFUL ABOUT RELIGION IS HOW DIFFERENTLY WE APPROACH THIS QUESTION.

AND THAT'S WHY HAVING A STATE AND THE COURT SYSTEM AND PARTICULAR JUDGE IN A PARTICULAR JURISDICTION MAKE MAKE A DETERMINATION THAT PROHIBITS THE FREE EXPRESSION OF RELIGION IN THIS CASE.

AS IN OTHERS, IT'S EXTRAORDINARY PROBLEMATIC.

>> MATTHEW, I WAS STRUCK BY THE ALABAMA SUPREME COURT CHIEF JUSTICE AS A SIGHTING OF THE BIBLE IN THIS OPINION, DECLARING FROZEN EMBRYOS PEOPLE.

WHAT PLACE DOES RELIGION HAVE IN IN A VERY PERSONAL DECISION LIKE THIS?

I THINK ALL OF OUR PERSONAL DECISIONS DRIVEN BY ARE DEEPLY HELD BELIEFS OFTEN THOSE COME FROM RELIGION.

SO IN SOME WAYS IT WAS SURPRISING THAT HE SOME OF THINGS THAT HE SAID.

>> IN HIS OPINION.

BUT WITHOUT A DOUBT, THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT INFORM ALL OF OUR THINKING.

WE THINK ABOUT ISSUES OF LIFE AND HEALTH AND LIFE AND DEATH.

VERY, VERY DEEP, DEEP CONVICTIONS.

DOCTOR LEVIN, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MEDICAL ETHICS THAT YOU HAVE TO WEIGH IN GUIDING COUPLES?

THEY'RE FIGURING OUT.

>> WHAT TO DO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF A COUPLE IS LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE MULTIPLE EMBRYOS HOW DO YOU HELP THEM?

ONE OF THE ETHICS THAT YOU HAVE TO WAIT, HELPING THEM DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH SO THAT THEY SURVIVED.

THAT IS CONSIDERING FIRST AGE, WHICH IS THE SINGLE MOST PART AFFECT ABOUT HOW SUCCESSFUL THOSE EMBRYOS ARE GOING TO BE.

KNOW AND BASES ABOUT MAYBE ONE IN 8 OF THOSE NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE A VIABLE PREGNANCY.

SO THE PATIENT'S AGE WE CONSIDER HOW MANY CHILDREN THAT THEY HOPE TO HAVE.

>> THEY HAVE MULTIPLE AND RAILS.

THEN YOU TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, NOT EVERY 3 THOSE ACTUALLY ONE LIVE BIRTH BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY COMPLEXITY PROCESSES THAT HAVE TO OCCUR BEFORE IMPLANT CAN'T MAKE IT TO ACTUAL FEES AND GET TO A LIVE BIRTH.

CAN JUST PREGNANCY DOES NOT MEAN THE GUARANTEE OF A TAKE-HOME BABY AND THAT SO WE LOOK AT THOSE.

AND THEN IF THEY HAVE SOME RELIGIOUS ETHICAL THINKS, GUESS WHAT?

THERE'S SO MANY THINGS YOUR FAMILY BUILDING THEIR FORECASTS.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DISCARD YOU CAN DONATE TO SCIENCE WHICH WE CAN EVER CLONED YOU.

BUT THERE'S THINGS YOU CAN DO LIKE TESTS ARE INCUBATORS PHMSA TEST.

WE PUT THEM IN A NORMAL ENVIRONMENT ARE GOING TO DO.

IF YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO DISCOUNT, YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO SOME CLINICS CALL COMPASSIONATE TRANSFER.

WELL, WE TAKE THOSE SKILLS THAT YOU HAVE REMAINING.

WE TRUST FROM BACK IN AT A TIME LESS LIKELY TO GET PREGNANT.

BUT YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO NATURE.

ELECTION BIDEN RESORT THAT THIS HAPPENS EVERY MONTH WHEN A WOMAN A LATE YOU DON'T GET A PRACTICING.

HE'S ACTUALLY A 30% OF PRACTICES GO UNDETECTED BECAUSE THERE LOTS OF VERY EARLY THOSE PRACTICES.

YOUR BODY RESERVES IS SO THERE ARE THINGS TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT YOUR VIEWS YOUR BELIEFS ARE, WHERE YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DISCARD THEM.

YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO OF THE AVENUES THANK YOU.

CASES OF OF OTHER WOMEN, OTHER PEOPLE ADOPTING.

REALLY.

SO LIKE IF YOU DIED AND ONE OF MY FAVORITE COMPANY, SERIOUS CALL SNOWFLAKE.

SO THEY HAVE BIG DONOR GROUP BECAUSE THEIR PATIENTS WHO ARE WAY TO TELL DECLINE FOR TULLY'S THERE.

AND IT'S NOT AN OPTION FOR THEM TO HAVE A VIABLE CHILD THEIR OWN SO THEY USE DONOR EMBRYOS.

SO THAT'S A GREAT OPTION.

NOT IN AN COMPLEX SITUATION.

I WANT