>> FINAL DAYS IN AFGHANISTAN.

FIRST DAYS FOR NEW YORK'S NEW GOVERNOR.

AND ARE THERE UNINTENDED EFFECTS OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS?

STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

I'M JOINED ON OUR PANEL TONIGHT BY BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, BEN BAUGHMAN FROM CAZENOVIA COLLEGE AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

THE EVACUATION FROM AFGHANISTAN APPEARS TO BE WINDING DOWN JUST DAYS FROM THE SELF- IMPOSED AUGUST 31 DEADLINE TO WITHDRAW.

PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN GETTING A LOT OF PUSHBACK ABOUT THAT DATE, BUT HE HAS REMAINED FIRM IN COMMITMENT TO END THE U.S.

PRESENCE THEN.

MORE THAN 80,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EVACUATED.

COULD ANYONE EXPECTED IT COULD GO AS WELL AS IT HAS GIVEN THE WAY IT STARTED?

>> IT IS INTERESTING THAT YOU FOCUSED ON IT AS WELL AS YOU HAVE.

MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SAID AS BAD AS IT HAS.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT WITH THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT COLLAPSING AS QUICKLY AS IT DID, THE SORT OF PLANNED EVACUATION REALLY WENT OUT THE WINDOW.

SO I THINK IT'S GONE ABOUT THE WAY IT WAS GOING TO GO.

I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ANY BETTER BECAUSE THE EVACUATION THAT WAS PLANNED WAS BASED ON THE IDEA THAT THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, THE AFGHAN MILITARY WOULD BE ABLE TO HOLD OFF THE TALIBAN MUCH LONGER THAN THEY WERE.

>> YEAH, AND THAT'S WHAT IT WAS-- THAT IS WHAT IT WAS BASED ON.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE INTELLIGENCE SHOWED US IT WAS NOT GOING THAT WAY FOR WEEKS LEADING UP TO THE PINT THAT WE ARE AT-- TO THE POINT WE ARE AT NOW.

I'M DISAPPOINTED IN THE ADMINISTRATION NOT IDENTIFYING THAT TAKING ON BOARD THE INTELLIGENCE AND PIVOTING SO WE ARE NOT IN THE MESS THAT WE ARE IN.

>> IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT IF WE HAD STARTED EVACUATING EARLIER, THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE ENDED UP IN THE SAME SITUATION WE ARE NOW.

I MEAN WE ARE STILL A COUPLE DAYS AWAY FROM THE DEADLINE AND PASSAGE INTO THE AIRPORT IS BEING RESTRICTED.

SO WE MAY NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE OUT BEFORE THE DEADLINE AS WE WANTED TO.

I THINK THE ARGUMENT THAT IF WE HAD SENT THE SIGNAL THAT WE WERE TRYING TO EVACUATE EARLIER, WOULD HAVE LED TO THE DECLINE OF THE GOVERNMENT EVEN MORE QUICKLY AND EVERYTHING WOULD HAVE ESCALATED TO THAT POINT, I THINK IS A FAIR ONE.

>> I THINK THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM IS, IF YOU GUN THE PROCESS OF WITHDRAWAL EARLIER, EVEN IF IT IS MORE GRADUAL, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO KNOW THAT IT'S HAPPENING AND THAT SIMPLY PRECIPITATES THE HOUSE OF CARDS COLLAPSING THAT MUCH SOONER.

IT JUST SEEMED TO BE, AS WE HAVE SAID BEFORE, THERE REALLY WAS NO GOOD SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS QUAGMIRE.

AND IF YOU GIVE IT A LONGER LOOK, THE QUESTION IS WHAT WAS OUR OBJECTIVE?

DID WE MEET THE OBJECTIVE?

AND WERE THERE ALTERNATIVES?

AND IF THE OBJECTIVE WAS TO REMAKE THE NATION STATE OF AFGHANISTAN, THAT WAS A LOSING PROPOSITION PRETTY MUCH FROM THE BEGINNING.

AFGHANISTAN IS THE GRAVEYARD OF EMPIRES FROM THE ANCIENT GREEKS TO THE BRITISH TO THE SOVIETS TO THE PRESENT.

AND THE INITIAL GOAL OF WANTING TO TAKE DOWN OSAMA BIN LADEN, FINE BUT THAT WAS A SHORT-TERM GOAL.

AND THE BEST CHANCE THAT WE HAD TO REMAKE AFGHANISTAN OR MAKE THINGS BETTER WAS RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING.

BUT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ABANDONED THAT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AND THE ONLY OTHER ALTERNATIVE, IF YOU RECALL JOHN McCAIN WHEN HE RAN FOR THE PRESIDENCY IN 2008, HE SAID WE SHOULD BE PREPARED TO BE THERE 100 YEARS IF WE NEED TO AND PEOPLE WERE HORRIFIED BY THAT PROSPECT AND THAT IDEA.

HE DID SAY 100 YEARS.

BUT THAT WAS THE ALTERNATIVE, WHICH WAS TO SIMPLY BE THERE FOREVER.

>> WELL, LET'S PICK UP ON THAT THOUGH.

100 YEARS IS OBVIOUSLY A LONG TIME.

IT WAS NOT A TREMENDOUSLY COSTFUL OPERATION AT THAT POINT AND THERE WERE ADVANTAGES, RIGHT, BEN, TO BEING THERE AND MAINTAINING A PRESENCE IN TERMS OF HOMELAND SECURITY?

>> SIGNIFICANT ADVANTAGES.

WE HAD THE FBI THERE, CIA, DEVELOPING HUMAN INTELLIGENCE, WHICH IS WHERE IT'S AT.

YOU HAVE THE TERRAIN OF AFGHANISTAN THAT LIMITS OUR CAPABILITY OF USING DRONES IN THAT AREA TO IDENTIFY TARGETS.

WOE HAVE GREAT TECHNOLOGY.

WE HAVE GREAT DRONES.

BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.

AND WE'VE LOST THAT WITH THE APPROACH THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN IN THIS.

AND I DISAGREE STRONGLY THAT WE DID NOT SEE THIS COMING; THAT THERE WERE MULTIPLE CHANCES TO REDIRECT AND COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT PLAN RATHER THAN DOING IT IN REVERSE ORDER.

NOW WE'VE TOOK OUT ALL THE TROOPS AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'VE LEFT PEOPLE THERE STRANDED SO NOW WE ARE HAVING TO SEND THE TROOPS BACK IN.

IT WAS DONE IN REVERSE ORDER.

>> THAT'S A COMMON POINT.

THAT IS DONE IN REVERSE ORDER.

BUT WHO PULLED THOSE TROOPS OUT, I THINK IS AN IMPORTANT POINT TO MAKE AS WELL BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF TROOPS THAT WERE IN ON JANUARY 20, IT WAS ONLY 25 HAD YOU BEEN, I THINK.

SO THAT-- ONLY 2500.

THAT WITHDRAWAL STARTED EARLIER.

>> WE STARTED SEEING ISSUES-- THERE WAS NO SECRET THAT THE DEADLINE WAS THERE AUGUST 3 IS.

IT WAS NOT LIKE HEY, IF WE START TAKING PEOPLE OUT, THEY WILL KNOW WE ARE LEAVING.

WE TOLD THEM WE WERE LEAVING.

WHEN WE STARTED TO SEE AN ISSUE, WE STARTED SHOULD HAVE ADDRESSED IT WITH THE INTELLIGENCE WE HAD RATHER THAN IGNORING THE INTELLIGENCE AND JUST BEING STEADFAST THAT WE ARE LEAVING BY THE 31st.

>> THE REAL ISSUE ISN'T GETTING AMERICANS OUT.

I THINK WE ARE DOING A GOOD JOB OF THAT.

IT'S ALL OF THE AFGHANS THAT HELPED THE UNITED STATES.

AND I THINK EVEN IF WE HAD STARTED EARLIER, THE TALIBAN HAS SORT OF BEEN VEGAS TO WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO ALLOW THESE PEOPLE TO LEAVE EVEN IF THEY HAVE SOME OF THE PAPERWORK ALREADY FILLED OUT AND WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE AIRPORT NOW SUGGESTS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO.

AGAIN I QUESTION WHETHER WE STARTED TWO WEEKS OR THREE WEEKS EARLIER, WHETHER WE WOULDN'T HAVE STILL ENDED UP WITH THIS CONFLICT AND CONFRONTATION THAT IS ON CURING AT THE AIRPORT?

>> IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT WE HAVE NOW GOTTEN OUT 100,000 PEOPLE IN A VERY SHORT SPACE OF TIME AND THAT, I THINK, IS A SIGNIFICANT ACCOMPLISHMENT.

>> IF YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT AT THE BEGINNING, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SURPRISING.

WE SHOULD POINT OUT FOR THE AUDIENCE AS WELL THAT WE ARE TAPING THIS PROGRAM ON THURSDAY AND THERE IS A THREAT AT THE AIRPORT.

SO IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE SOMETHING BAD COULD HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THE TIME THIS IS BROADCAST.

WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE COMING OUT IN TERMS OF REFUGEES NOW?

HERE LOCALLY THE MAYOR AND THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAVE WRITTEN A LETTER SAYING WE WELCOME REFUGEES AND SHOULD WE BE LOOKING TO BRING SOME OF THESE PEOPLE TO CENTRAL NEW YORK?

>> WELL, I CERTAINLY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, NEW YORK, OHIO, MANY PLACES HAVE SAID THEY'LL TABLING REFUGEE-- THAT THEY'LL TAKE REFUGEES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME AS WE INVITE REFUGEES IN, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE AFGHAN MILITARY, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH AFGHANS IN THE GOVERNMENT, YOU COULD NEVER TOTALLY BE SURE WHO WAS TRULY PRO-WESTERN FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD FOR PUTTING IT AND TRULY AN ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES OR WHO WAS AN ALLY OF THE MOMENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

THAT IS A VERY REAL CONCERN ATHAT AS WE HAVE HAD A RUSH TO PULL PEOPLE OUT, YOU WANT TO WELCOME REFUGEES, PEOPLE WHO HAVE HELPED US, BUT HOW ARE WE SURE THAT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE REALLY ARE IN AMERICA NOW TO HELP US?

>> AND THAT'S A PERFECT POINT, TARA.

9/11 TAUGHT US THAT WE COULD NOT DEFEND OUR COUNTRY AS WELL AS WE COULD IF BEE WORKED WITH OTHER COUNTRIES AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES WITH INTELLIGENCE REGARDS THAN FROM-- RATHER FROM THE SHORELINES OF AMERICA.

IT IS GOING TO COME BACK TO OUR SOIL IF THAT'S WHERE WE ARE PUTTING IT.

>> ARE YOU SUGGESTING, TARA, THAT ALL THE VETTING THAT SUPPOSEDLY IS TAKING PLACE ON PEOPLE COMING IN-- BECAUSE YOU DON'T JUST SHOW UP AS A REFUGEE AND GET ACCEPTED INTO THE REFUGEE PROGRAM.

THERE IS USUALLY A PRETTY STRENUOUS PROGRAM THAT GOES THROUGH TO CHECK THEM OUT BEFORE THEY GET HERE.

>> RIGHT.

>> YOU ARE SAYING YOU ARE NOT TRUSTING THAT?

>> I'M NOT TRUSTING THAT THAT INTENSE VETTING IS GOING ON WITH THE PROCESS THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE ARE WORKING SO HARD TO GET PEOPLE OUT AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.

FLOSS WAY YOU CAN CONVINCE-- THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU CAN CONVINCE ME THAT VETTING IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

MAYBE THERE IS A PLAN TO KEEP THEM FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME AT RAM STEIN AIR BASE IN GERMANY TO DO THE VETTING.

BUT YOU RUN OUT OF SPACE AT THE BASE.

>> YOU CAN'T ASSUME THE VETTING PROCESS IS FULL PROOF AND YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THERE ARE GOING TO BE TERRORIST ASSETS PLANTED AMONG THE REFUGEES.

IT MAY BE A VERY SMALL NUMBER.

MAYBE THEY'LL CATCH SOME AND TURN THEM BACK, BUT THERE IS A SECURITY CONCERN.

>> IN ADDITION TO FAMILIES THAT COULD BE COMPROMISED WITH LOVED ONES LEFT BEHIND IN AFGHANISTAN AND THEIR FAMILY IS HERE AND THEN CONTACT IS MADE THAT IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOUR FAMILY THAT'S BACK IN AFGHANISTAN.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

I DON'T THINK I'VE HEARD IT EXPRESSED THAT WAY BEFORE.

LEVERAGE BASICALLY IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

WELL, NEW YORK CERTAINLY HAS A REPUTATION OF BRINGING PEOPLE IN AND BEING WELCOMING AND CERTAINLY CENTRAL NEW YORK DOES SO I WOULD EXPECT WE WOULD SEE PEOPLE HERE PRODUCE BOB, YOUR IDEA THAT THERE ARE SLEEPERS.

IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO DAMAGE, IS THAT HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?

IT SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY LONG-TERM APPROACH FROM A TERRORIST PERSPECTIVE.

>> THAT'S HOW INTELLIGENCE OPERATESMENT I WOULDN'T WANT TO STOKE PARANOIA.

YOU DON'T WANT TO OPERATE ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF PLANTS AMONG THE TERRORISTS-- AMONG THE REFUGEES BUT SURELY INTELLIGENCE IS OPERATING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE WILL BE SOME AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.

>> RIGHT.

AND THAT'S A PERFECT POINT.

HOW MANY DID IT TAKE FOR NUN 11 TO OCCUR-- FOR NINE 11 TO OCCUR?

IT DOESN'T TAKE MANY.

AND IT SHOULDN'T BE FEAR MONGERING THAT'S TAKING PLACE BUT THE POINT THAT WE ARE ALL MAKING IS THAT THE PROCESS CAN'T BE PERFECT WITH HOW RUSHED IT IS BEING DONE AND WITH THE OTHER THINGS THAT MAY PLAY OUT, THERE ARE CONCERNS THAT ARE LEGITIMATE.

>> OKAY.

NOW NEW YORK HAS A NEW GOVERNOR.

KATHY HOCHUL WAS SWORN IN THIS WEEK-THE FIRST GOVERNOR FROM UPSTATE IN A CENTURY AND NEW YORK'S FIRST WOMAN GOVERNOR EVER.

SHE'S STEPPING INTO A TOUGH SPOT AND HAS SOME IMMEDIATE POLICY DECISIONS TO MAKE-HOW TO DEAL WITH THE DELTA SURGE AND ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE EVICTION MORATORIUM AND RENT RELIEF PROGRAMS.

IN ONE OF HER FIRST DECISIONS SHE'S CHOSEN STATE SENATOR BRIAN BENJAMIN TO BE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

WHAT WOULD THE PANEL LIKE TO SEE FROM HOCHUL-WHAT SHOULD SHE DO IMMEDIATELY?

AS SHE STEPS INTO THE JOB?

>> SHE HAS SET OUT SOME PRIORITIES.

SHE HAS JUMPED RIGHT IN WITH BOTH FEET.

SHE SEEMS PRETTY WELL PREPARED.

SHE HASN'T BEEN CAUGHT FLAT FOOT I DON'T THINK.

IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR THERE WAS AN END GAME FOR FORMER GOVERNOR CUOMO SO SHE WAS OBJECT OBVIOUSLY GETTING READY.

SHE HAS INSTITUTED A REQUIRED MASK POLICY FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, SOMETHING THAT CUOMO WAS RELUCTANT TO DO.

SHE IS WORKING TO RESTORE OR TO EXTEND THE RENT MORATORIUM AND TO TRY AND FACILITATE THE FUNNELING OF MONIES THAT HAVE BEEN ALLOCATED TO PROVIDE RENT RELIEF AND ASSISTANCE BOTH FOR THOSE RENTING AND FOR THE LANDLORDS WHO NEED THE MONEY OBVIOUSLY.

AND TO RESTORE SOME DEGREE OF TRUST IN GOVERNMENT.

SHE HAS TAKEN, I THINK, A VERY IMPORTANT STEP, ALTHOUGH POLITICALLY SHREWD, TO SAY IN FACT THE DEATH COUNT FROM COVID IN NEW YORK STATE WAS 12,000 MORE THAN THE CUOMO ADMINISTRATION HAD REPORTED AND THIS SERVES TWO PURPOSES FOR HER.

ONE, OF COURSE, IS TO PUT THE NUMBERS AT WHERE THE CDC SAYS THEY SHOULD BE BUT THE SECOND THING IS THAT IT DIALS UP THE BASELINE FOR HER SO WHEN SHE BEGINS HER ADMINISTRATION, THE NUMBER OF COVID DEATHS AT THE START IS 12,000 MORE AND SO AS PRESUMABLY THE NUMBERS GO DOWN, IT MAKES HER STATISTICS OF HER ADMINISTRATION LOOK BETTER.

SO THERE IS A POLITICAL UPSIDE FOR HER TO DOING THIS.

I DON'T MEAN TO SOUND UNDULY CYNICAL BECAUSE REPORTING THE HONEST NUMBERS IS JUST THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> THE CDC HAD THE HONEST NUMBERS.

THEY REPORTED THAT TO THE CDC BUT ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE THEY WERE FINESSING IT.

>> BUT THE POINT IS THAT THE STATE IS NOW ACKNOWLEDGING BECAUSE IT PROVIDES OFFICIAL STATISTICS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF STATE REPORTING.

AND SO BY REDIALING THAT NUMBER, YOU KNOW, IT SERVES A COUPLE OF PURPOSES.

AND I WILL JUST ADD THAT IF SHE IS SERIOUS ABOUT OPENNESS, HONESTY, THE ONE POLICY PRIORITY SHE SHOULD PURSUE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF SHE WILL OR NOT, IS ETHICS REFORM AND CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

IT CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, WHERE THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T WANT TO JUMP INTO IT WITHOUT THE GOVERNOR PISHING THEM TO DO IT.

>> I THINK SHE SAID ALL THE RIGHT THINGS IN HER OPENING SPEECH, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY THE PRIORITIES OF TRYING TO REIN IN THE DELTA VARIANT, I THINK SHE CAN ACCOMPLISH THAT AND SHE IS USING HER EXECUTIVE POWER, AND EVEN TRYING TO FACILITATE THE DISTRIBUTION OF FUNDS TO THE EXTENT THAT STATE AGENCIES HAVE BEEN NOT DISTRIBUTING MONEY TO BOTH LANDLORDS AND RENTERS.

SHE CAN DEAL WITH.

THE LAST PRIORITY THOUGH CHANGING THE CULTURE OF NEW YORK.

AGAIN WE'VE HEARD NUMEROUS GOVERNORS AND NEW YORK POLITICIANS TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND CORRUPTION BEFORE, AND WHAT WE FIND IS THAT , YOU KNOW, THE WORDS AND THEIR ACTIONS ARE FAR APART.

ONE THING I THOUGHT WAS VERY INTERESTING IS HOW SHE DESCRIBED HERSELF.

SHE SAID SHE WAS DIRECT, DECISIVE AND WILLING TO BE BLOODIED AND MARRED IN ORDER TO MEET HER PRIORITIES.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I HEARD A LOT OF ANDREW CUOMO IN THAT DESCRIPTION.

I THINK WAS IS GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING IS WHEN SHE HAS TO NEGOTIATE EITHER WITHIN FACTIONS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN NEW YORK STATE OR WHEN SHE TRIES TO REACH ACROSS THE AISLE WITH REPUBLICANS WHEN IT COMES TO THINGS LIKE THE BUDGET, WHAT IS THE TONE GOING TO BE?

IS SHE GOING TO BE A KINDER AND GENTLER GOVERNOR, AND IF SO WILL OTHERS TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HER?

OR WILL SHE BE VERY TOUGH?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, HERE'S THE THING.

SHE DID SAY THAT WAS ONE OF HER THREE BIG THINGS, CHANGING THE CULTURE IN ALBANY.

BUT SHE WAS VERY VAGUE ON HOW TO DO THAT.

SHE TALKED ABOUT STATE ENTITIES.

NOW IF THE STATE ENTITY THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO CHANGE IS THE PROBLEM AND IT IS CORRUPT, THEN YOU WOULD BRING IN THE FBI THAT DEALS WITH CORRUPTION.

THAT'S WHO YOU BRING IN, SOMEBODY OUTSIDE TO REALLY MAKE IT TRANSPARENT.

>> TARA.

>> WELL, I THINK THE MOTION OF HER NEGOTIATING SKILL WHATS I'M LOOKING TO SEE.

DOES SHE HAVE THE NEGOTIATING SKILLS BECAUSE WHETHER IT WAS STRONG ARMING, WHETHER IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THREE MEN IN A ROOM, CUOMO DID HAVE NEGOTIATING SKILLS AND HE WAS ABLE TO GET CERTAIN THINGS DONE AND IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING TO SEE IF SHE CAN BRING, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE SAME TYPES OF SKILLS, MAYBE NOT HANDLED THE SAME WAY, FORWARD.

>> IN A MORE AFFABLE WAY PERHAPS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> TWO WOMEN AND A MAN IN THE ROOM NOW.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

NOW ONONDAGA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY WILLIAM FITZPATRICK AND SYRACUSE POLICE CHIEF KENTON BUCKNER HAVE ARGUED THAT CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS INCLUDING BAIL REFORM AND RAISING THE AGE OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY, ARE HAVING THE UNINTENDED EFFECT OF "KILLING MORE POOR PEOPLE AND PEOPLE OF COLOR."

THEY SAY YOUNG CRIMINALS ARE GETTING BACK OUT ON THE STREETS AND COMMITTING MORE, AND MORE VIOLENT, CRIMES.

A SIMPLE QUESTION, BEN, ARE THEY RIGHT?

>> YES, THEY'RE 100% RIGHT.

SLOGANS ARE GREAT AND EVERYTHING.

THEY'RE WELL INTENDED YET UNINFORMED POLICIES AND WHAT IS BEING BROUGHT FORWARD NOW IS THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VIOLENT CRIMINALS AND CRIMINALS THAT ARE MAKING BAD DECISIONS, SHOPLIFTING, DOING TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS.

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE RECIDIVISM RATE AND THE BOTTOM LINE THAT THEY'RE ADDRESSING, WHICH IS UNCOMFORTABLE FOR PEOPLE IS THAT THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM DOES NEED REPAIRED.

IT DOES NEED WORK.

BUT THIS VIOLENT COMPONENT, ALTHOUGH BLACK AMERICANS ARE 13% OF THE U.S.

CONSENSUS IN 2020, 50% OF MURDERS, THEY'RE THE ONES COMMITTING THEM AGAINST OTHER BLACK AMERICANS.

SO THE VIOLENT COMPONENT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> BUT CRIME HAS RISEN IN PLACES THAT HAVE NOT ADOPTED THESE REFORMS AS WELL.

SO CAN WE REALLY PIN IT ON THE REFORMS?

>> YEAH, IF YOU COMPARE NEW YORK STATE TO OTHER STATES, THE MURDER RATE THAT HAS INCREASED AND VIOLENT CRIME RATE INCREASED IN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF HAS OCCURRED IN NEW YORK STATE, ALTHOUGH IT IS COMING DOWN TO NEW YORK CITY, HAS HAPPENED ACROSS THE COUNTRY, STATES THAT HAVE NOT INSTITUTED BAIL REFORM.

I THINK BAIL REFORM IS THE RIGHT IDEA.

BUT THERE IS AN IMPORTANT CRITICISM, WHICH IS THE FACT THAT NEW YORK IS ONE OF ONLY TWO STATES THAT DOESN'T GIVE JUDGES DISCRETION TO USE DANGER IN THE COMMUNITY AS A BASIS FOR ESTABLISHING A HIGH BAIL TO KEEP PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS OR TO HAVE A HIGH BAIL TO CONSTRAIN THEIR BEHAVIOR, AND THAT SEEMS LIKE AN OBVIOUS REFORM THAT THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD GET TO.

I THINK THE IDEA-- DA FITZPATRICK HAS BEEN TOO HARSH IN HIS CRITICISM OF BAIL REFORM.

BUT I THINK THIS KEY ELEMENT IS ONE THAT NEEDS CHANGING.

>> AND THAT'S THE DANGEROUS STANDARD.

>> THE JUDGES CANNOT IMPOSE HIGH BAIL IF THEY JUDGE THAT A SUSPECT IS A DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY.

>> THIS IS REALLY, I THINK, AN EXAMPLE OF HOW DIFFICULT IT IS IF ON THE ONE HAND, TWO ARMED ECONOMIST HERE, VERY RIGID RULES THAT DON'T ALLOW FOR JUDGES TO USE THEIR DISCRETION CAN LEAD TO THESE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

BUT OFTEN TIMES THESE RIGID RULES COME DOWN FROM SITUATION WHERE WE GAVE A LOT OF DISCRETION TO JUDGES AND THAT'S WHERE WE ENDED UP WITH INEQUITIES THAT, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR CASES WOULD END UP WITH VERY DIFFERENT OUTCOMES BASED UPON THE JUDGE THAT WAS MAKING THE DECISION.

SO FINDING THAT DELICATE LINE BETWEEN GIVING THEM SOME DISCRETION BUT ENSURING THAT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE TREATED EQUALLY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT JUDGE IS LOOKING AT THEIR CASE IS A DIFFICULT ONE.

>> RIGHT.

AND I THINK IT DOES COME DOWN TO RISK ASSESSMENT AND HAVING SOME SORT OF DECISION SUPPORT SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT HELPS JUDGES BE MORE OBJECTIVE AND LESS OBJECTIVE JUST BASED ON WHATEVER THEY'RE FEELING THAT DAY.

SO I THINK YOU ARE HITTING DIRECTLY ON THIS RISK ASSESSMENT COMPONENT.

THE OTHER COMPONENT IS THIS IS A MULTIFACETED ISSUE.

THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT BAIL REFORM.

THE ISSUES ARE OCCURRING WAY BEFORE THIS SO IT MAY BE ONE PART OF THE SOLUTION, BUT REALLY, IF WE ARE IDENTIFYING LOCATIONS OF PLACES WHERE REPEAT CRIMES ARE HAPPENING, WE NEED TO BE MORE PROACTIVE IN THERE IN HELPING OUR AMERICANS PICK ANOTHER PATH AND NOT GO DOWN THE PATH... >> IS THERE A CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THAT PROACTIVE POLICING AND TACKLING CRIME AND POLICE REFORM?

IS THERE AN INTENTION TENSION-- IS THERE AS INHERENT TENSION IN THAT?

>> I DON'T SEE INHERENT TENSION IN THAT BECAUSE PART OF THE ARGUMENT WITH THE REFORM AS POINTED OUT, YOU NEED TO FIND THE BALANCE AND PART OF THE BALANCE IS-- AND THERE HAVE BEEN MANY, MANY SUGGESTIONS AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE SHOW.

BEING PROACTIVE MEANS GETTING POLICE BACK INTO THE COMMUNITY AS OPPOSED TO JUST IN THEIR SQUAD CARS, A MORE POSITIVE AND PERSONAL INTERACTION BETWEEN POLICE OFFICERS AND COMMUNITIES, ET CETERA.

AND THAT ALSO, IN A WAY, WOULD IMPACT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE IS BROUGHT BEFORE A JUDGE BECAUSE IF A POLICE OFFICER IS IN THE COMMUNITY, INTERACTED WITH A COMMUNITY, THAT POLICE OFFICER IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO LIKELY TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION NOT BASED ON A STEREOTYPE, NOT BASED ON WHAT IS ON A REPORT BUT BASED ON WHAT THEY KNOW OF THIS PERSON FROM THE COMMUNITY.

AND ALSO THEY WOULD HAVE A BETTER SENSE OF HOW THAT COMMUNITY CAN RESPOND TO THIS PERSON IF THIS PERSON DOES, YOU KNOW, GO BEYOND WHAT HAS BEEN THE NORM FOR CRIME IN THAT COMMUNITY.

>> AND PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITIES WHERE THE CRIME HAS BEEN HAPPENING, WANT POLICE THERE.

>> YES.

>> THAT'S NOT A-- THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO HIVE-- DEFUND THE POLICE DOES NOT MEAN DON'T POLICE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT MEANS DON'T OVER POLICE TOO AGGRESSIVELY.

>> EXACTLY.

THE STAKEHOLDERS NEEDS TO BE ENGAGED IN A POSITIVE WAY.

A CHOICE PROJECT WHERE THEY IDENTIFIED A LOCATION OF RALEIGH WHERE THERE IS A LOT OF CRIME, THEY WENT IN, IDENTIFIED PEOPLE THAT WERE COMMITTING CRIMES AND THEY GAVE THEM A CHOICE OF WHETHER TO ADDRESS THAT OR NOT.

>> WE HAVE TO LEAVE THAT RIGHT THERE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GET TO OUR As AND EVERYs.

BOB SPITZER YOUR EF PLEASE.

>> F TO FOX NEWS KNUCKLE HEADS FOR PROMOTING AN ANTI-PAR SITTIC DRUG USED FOR LIVESTOCKS, YES, HORSE PILLS AS A POTENTIAL TREATMENT FOR COVID-19.

IT'S AWLD IVERMECTIN.

IT IS NOT APPROVED FOR HUMAN USE BUT IT IS DANGEROUS.

>> MY F GOES TO THE U.S. POSTMASTER GENERAL AND THE REGULATORY COMMISSION FOR APPROVING A SECOND RATE INCREASE TO POSTAL RATES.

IT STARTS BASICALLY ON THE 29th AND WHAT REALLY MAKES THIS SAD IS THAT THE THIRD POSTAL INCREASE IS BEING PLANNED FOR OCTOBER.

NOW ALL OF THIS IS OCCURRING WHEN CONGRESS, IN BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, OPPOSED THESE RATE INCREASES.

>> BEN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR HANDLING THE LEAD-UP TO THE WITHDRAWAL IN AFGHANISTAN.

I THINK DISCOUNTING INTEL AND NOT READJUSTING BASED ON INTELLIGENCE AS IT WAS COMING IN IN REAL TIME WAS A MISTAKE.

>> RICK, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE OVER 20 MILLION CUSTOMERS OF THE ONLINE BROKER ROBINHOOD.

MORE THAN 80% OF ITS CUSTOMERS ARE PURCHASING OPTIONS AND CRYPTOCURRENCY INSTEAD OF TRADITIONAL STOCKS.

THE COMPANY WHICH IS POPULAR AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE CLAIMS THAT IT IS DEMOCRATIZING INVESTING BUT I THINK THE DATA SHOWS IT IS PROMOTING GAMBLING.

I THINK ROBINHOOD HAS MORE IN COMMON WITH SPORTS BETTING FIRMS THAN IT DOES WITH TRADITIONAL INVESTMENT FIRMS LIKE CHARLES SCHWAB AND VANGUARD.

>> As BOB.

>> IN 2019, THE F.A.A.

REPORTED 146 REPORTS OF UNRUELY PASSENGERS ON AIRPLANES IN 2019.

IN 2021, SO FAR, ALMOST 4,000 SUCH INCIDENTS HAVE BEEN REPORTED SO I'M GIVING AN A TO FLIGHT ATTENDANTS WHO ARE GETTING THE GREEN LIGHT IN LARGE NUMBERS AND TRAINING TO DEAL PHYSICALLY ONE RUELY PASSENGERS.

>> YOUR A TARA.

>> CATHEDRAL OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION AND Dr. RICHARD MILAR FOR ESTABLISHING THE MASS VISION SERVICES IN DOWNTOWN SYRACUSE.

THIS SERVICE WILL JOIN DENTAL SERVICES IN SERVING THE UNINSURED AND UNDERINSURED AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT STATE YOU ARE, YOU ARE WELCOME.

>> MY A GOES TO ALL THE UNIVERSITY SCHOOLS THAT THE STUDENTS, THE STAFF, THE FACULTY HAVE EMBODIED THE SAME ELECTRICAL OF RESILIENCE OUR COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON.

>> RICK YOUR A.

>> TO THE FDA FOR GIVING FULL APPROVAL TO THE PFIZER VACCINE.

WHILE THE FDA WAS CRITICIZED FOR TAKING TOO LONG IN DOING THIS, I THINK THIS FINALLY GIVES US SOME HOPE AT REINING IN THE DELTA VARIANT OF COVID.

I THINK SOME THAT HAD BEEN HESS AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME TO GET IT WILL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE BUT I THINK THIS WILL ALLOW BUSINESSES, SCHOOLS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS MORE SUPPORT IN REQUIRING VACCINATIONS BOTH OF ITS EMPLOYEES AND ITS CUSTOMERS.

>> RICK, YOU MENTIONED ON YOUR F, ROBINHOOD AND TRADING PLATFORM AND YOUNG PEOPLE USE IT.

I WAS SURPRISED LAST SEMESTER, I DID A SURVEY IN MY CLASS, HOW MANY PEOPLE USE IT.

HOW MANY OF OUR OWN COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE GOING TO ROBINHOOD AND PLAYING THE STOCK MARKET.

>> PERSONAL FINANCE CLASS I TEACH AND I DEAL WITH THAT EVERY SEMESTER.

>> GET A FREE STOCK FOR SIGNING UP.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF WOULD YOU LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.