♪ PHILLIP: WELCOME TO BASIC BLACK.

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

I’M PHILLIP MARTIN, SENIOR INVESTIGATION REPORTER, GBH NEWS, AND YOUR HOST.

TONIGHT, AFRO-LATINO INFLUENCE IN MUSIC, CULTURE AND POLITICS.

SIX MILLION PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES IDENTIFY AS AFRO LATINO, ACCORDING TO PEW RESEARCH.

AND IN GREATER BOSTON, THE AFRO-LATINO POPULATION HAS DOUBLED IN THE LAST 20 YEARS ACCORDING TO INFORMATION FROM BOSTON INDICATORS.

THEIR INFLUENCE IS WOVEN INTO THE FABRIC OF AMERICA, NOTABLY IN MUSIC, AND HEARD IN THE BEATS AND RHYTHMS OF SALSA, MERENGUE, REGGAETON AND LATIN JAZZ.

BUT AFRO-LATINO IDENTITY IS COMPLEX, BOTH WITHIN AND OUTSIDE OF THE GROUP DUE TO COLORISM.

A REVISION TO THE U.S. CENSUS COLLECTING INFORMATION ON RACE AND ETHNICITY COULD REDEFINE THEIR STATUS.

ADVOCATES CALL THE NEW GUIDELINES EXCLUSIONARY TO AFRO-LATINOS BECAUSE IT DOESN’T ACCURATELY REFLECT THE RACISM AND DISPARITIES THEY EXPERIENCE.

SO, WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN FOR AFRO LATINOS?

JOINING ME TONIGHT, DR. PETRA R. RIVERA-RIDEAU, CHAIR AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF AMERICAN STUDIES AT WELLESLEY COLLEGE.

SHE’S THE AUTHOR OF, "REMIXING REGGAETON: THE CULTURAL POLITICS OF RACE IN PUERTO RICO."

JOSE MASSO, THE HOST AND PRODUCER OF ¡CON SALSA!

WITH JOSE MASSO ON WBUR.

HIS NAME IS ONE OF 69 INSCRIBED ON THE 1965 FREEDOM PLAZA THAT ENCIRCLES THE EMBRACE BOSTON SCULPTURE.

HE WAS ALSO THE HOST OF THE GBH PROGRAM, LA PLAZA.

NAHEEM GARCIA IS AN ACTOR AND THE FOUNDER OF THEATER EDUCATION PROGRAM, NG EDUTAINMENT.

HE RECENTLY FINISHED PERFORMING IN, "AUGUST WILSON’S KING HEDLEY II," AT HIBERNIAN HALL IN BOSTON, AND HAS BEEN NOMINATED FOR ELLIOT NORTON AWARD.

CONGRATULATIONS.

AND YVETTE MODESTIN, FOUNDER/DIRECTOR, ENCUENTRO DIASPORA AFRO, A BOSTON ORGANIZATION, TO PROVIDE A SPACE FOR AFRO-LATINOS AND ALL PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT.

WELCOME TO YOU ALL.

IT’S A REAL PLEASURE.

BEFORE WE START, LET’S LISTEN TO A BIT OF MUSICIAN ISMAEL RIVERA SINGING, "LAS CARAS LINDAS," A POPULAR AFRO LATINO SONG DESCRIBING ALL THE BLACK BEAUTIFUL FACES IN LATIN AMERICA.

♪ [SINGING IN SPANISH] YOU COULDN’T CS BUT WE WERE DANCING.

IDENTITY.

IDENTITY IS SOMETHING EVERYONE IS FOCUSED ON THESE DAYS.

SOMETIMES QUITE NEGATIVELY.

BUT AFRO-LATINO IDENTITY IS SOMETHING PEOPLE UNDERESTIMATE.

IT’S NOT ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD.

HOW DOESN’T MANIFESTED MUSIC?

JOSE: THAT SONG IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW IT MANIFESTS ITSELF.

19 629, IMAGINE YOU ARE LISTENING TO JAMES BROWN SINGING.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, 1978, ONE OF THE GREATEST COMPOSERS TO COME OUT OF LATIN AMERICA FROM PUERTO RICO COMPOSES -- AND IS SUNG BY AN ICONIC LEGENDARY FIGURE, AFRO PUERTO RICAN.

THAT SONG BECOMES AN BLAHNIK -- EMBLEMATIC.

SPANISH SPEAKERS FEELING PRIDE IN BEING AN AFRICAN DESCENDED.

THAT WAS AN ANTHEM FOR US.

SO THAT RIGHT THERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW MUSIC IN PARTICULAR PLAYS A ROLE IN OUR IDENTITY BEING MANIFEST.

PHILLIP: YOU FOCUS ON AFRO-LATINOS IN THE WORK THAT YOU DO.

YOU WORK WITH YOUNG WOMEN AND PEOPLE ACROSS THE DIASPORA.

TALK ABOUT THIS MUSIC IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT YOU DO AND HOW YOUR IDENTITY IS INFLUENCED BY MUSIC.

YVETTE: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, BLACK IS MY IDENTITY.

LATINO’S MYOSIN ENTITY -- S&S IS A -- ETHNICITY.

IN PANAMA, I WAS BORN AND RAISED.

ONE SINGER SAID [SINGING IN SPANISH] PHILLIP: YOU HAVE A GREAT VOICE.

YVETTE: SO ANYONE WHO IS NOT KNOWING THAT SALSA, MERENGUE CARRIES THAT AFRICAN BEAT, WE ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

THE DRUMS CAME WITH OUR ANCESTORS.

IT WAS DELIVERED EVERYWHERE.

THAT DRUM IS THE BASE OF SALSA.

THAT DRUM CAME OUT OF PANAMA.

PHILLIP: THAT’S A GREAT TRANSITION.

YOU ARE THE AUTHOR OF A GREAT BOAT -- BOOK TALKING ABOUT THE INFLUENCE OF AFRO-LATINO CULTURE.

TALK ABOUT THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF IDENTITY.

DR. RIVERA-RIDEAU: IT’S THE SOUNDTRACK OF GLOBAL POP IN A LOT OF WAYS.

THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF CRITICISM OF THIS GROWTH IN REGGAETON.

AT THE HELM OF THIS MOVEMENT ARE A LOT OF LIGHT COMPLEXION LATINOS.

THE PROBLEM IS, REGGAETON BEGAN AS MUSIC ROOTED IN BLACK COMMUNITIES IN PANAMA AND UNDERGROUND IN PUERTO RICO.

AS IT BECAME MORE COMMERCIALIZED AND ENTERED THE LATIN MUSIC INDUSTRY, A LOT OF BLACK ARTISTS DID NOT -- PHILLIP: EMBRACE IT?

DR. RIVERA-RIDEAU: THEY DIDN’T RECEIVE THE SAME LEVEL OF SUPPORT FROM THE LATIN MUSIC INDUSTRY WHICH EMPHASIZED WIDER LOOKING ARTISTS.

PHILLIP: THAT HAS BEEN THE STORY OF LATIN AMERICA AND THE STORY OF THE CARIBBEAN.

WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT LATIN AMERICA, PERHAPS WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS, YOU OFTEN DON’T SEE BLACK FACES BEING CENTERED IN THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

TALK ABOUT YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE BOTH AS AN ACTOR BUT ALSO SOMEONE FROM CUBA, WHERE RACE HAS BEEN A FOCUS SINCE THE REVOLUTION AND BEFORE.

HOW DOES THAT WORK IN THE CONTEXT OF IDENTITY?

NAHEEM: FOR ME, IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BLACK LATINO HAD A VOICE, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

PHILLIP: IN ACTING OR BEYOND?

NAHEEM: BEYOND.

ACROSS THE BOARD.

YOU CAN’T HIDE IT.

YOU CAN’T HIDE ME.

I CAN’T HIDE.

I CAN’T IDENTIFY AS ANYBODY ELSE.

A LOT OF MY LATINO BROTHERS AND SISTERS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY AS WHITE OR OTHERWISE.

I NEVER HAD THAT OPTION AND NEVER WILL AND DON’T WANT IT.

BLACK IS CLEAN, AND THAT WHAT WE SAY?

IT’S IMPORTANT BECAUSE PEOPLE DISMISS MY IDENTITY AS A CUBAN MAN.

I WAS EITHER BLACK, BLACK, AFRICAN-AMERICAN, WEST INDIAN.

AFRO-LATINO WAS WHO I WAS.

WHEN I WOULD CHECK THE BOX, I WOULD MAKE SURE I WOULD SAY BLACK LATINO.

I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND WHY WE DIDN’T HAVE A SPACE.

PHILLIP: CHECKING THE BOX IS WHAT THE SENSES IS ALL ABOUT.

WE HAVE THE NEW SENSES COMING UP.

-- CENSUS COMING UP.

THERE’S AT THE EMPHASIS OF AFRO-LATINOS.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT THERE’S A DE-EMPHASIS IN THIS CENSUS?

JOSE: LET ME RESPOND TO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAID.

I THINK WHAT YOU HEARD AS FAR AS WHITE LOOKING ARTISTS TAKING OVER, THINK FOR A MOMENT ABOUT 1959.

BLACK AND WHITE TV.

YOU WOULDN’T SEE LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES.

IT WASN’T UNTIL PUERTO RICO WHEN YOU SAW THEM EVERYTHING OLD DAY AT LUNCH AND WEDNESDAY EVENINGS PERFORMING LIVE.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU FOSS -- SAW FACES THAT LOOKED LIKE US.

IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR MANY OF US HAVING SOMEONE WHO FINALLY REPRESENTED WHO WE ARE AS FAR AS OUR IDENTITY.

AT THE SAME TIME, THAT WAS A MOMENT WHERE YOU HAD ROBERTO CLEMENTE DO GREAT THINGS ON THE BASEBALL FIELD.

NOW YOU HAVE THESE ICONIC FIGURES HAVING THE WORLD STAGE.

AT THE SAME TIME, EVEN THOUGH THAT WAS HAPPENING AND THERE WERE CELEBRATION AMONG THOSE WHO WERE AFRICAN DESCENDANTS, THERE WAS AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT IN OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS THAT WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE AFRICAN DESCENDANTS WHO HAPPEN TO BE FROM THOSE PARTICULAR PLACES THAT ARE SPANISH-SPEAKING.

FAST-FORWARD TO 2024, THERE WAS A COLLECTIVE EFFORT OF AFRICAN DESCENDANTS WHO PERFECTLY -- PURPOSELY WORKED ON INFORMING AND MOBILIZING AFRICAN DESCENDANTS TO START FEELING PRIDE OF BEING AFRICAN DEFENDANTS, IDENTIFYING AS BEING BLACK.

TO BE ABLE TO THEN CONCLUDE -- INCLUDE BLACK WITH THEM BEING PART OF PUERTO RICO.

IS THAT A MOVE FORWARD?

FINALLY, YOU SAW THAT THERE WERE MORE BLACKS SAYING, I AM BLACK.

PHILLIP: WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

JOSE: NOW IN 2024, YOU HAVE THE BOXES WHERE IT SAYS BLACK, AFRICAN-AMERICAN, FROM THE WEST INDIES.

IT DOESN’T SAY -- YOU HAVE TO COUPLE IT.

BLACK UP HERE AND PUERTO RICAN DOWN HERE.

THERE’S NO WAY OF MIXING THOSE THINGS TOGETHER.

I’M BLACK.

PHILLIP: YOUR VIEW ABOUT THIS?

YVETTE: MY MENTOR, I MET HIM 30 YEARS AGO WHEN I STARTED DOING THIS WORK.

I THINK IT’S DANGEROUS WHAT’S BEING DONE BY THE CENSUS.

WE STARTED A CAMPAIGN LED BY THE AFRO-LATINO FORUM WITH AFRO-LATINO PROJECT.

CALLED LATINO IS NOT A RACE.

I THINK WHAT THIS IS GOING TO DO -- WHEN I CAME HERE TO BOSTON AS A COLLEGE STUDENT FROM PANAMA, IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I STOOD AROUND PEOPLE DARKER THAN ALL OF US HERE, TELLING ME THAT THEY WERE NOT BLACK.

WHEN YOU COME TO THAT COUNTRY, THE TERM LATINO ALLOWS YOU TO SIT WITH IT AS THOUGH IT IS RACE AND ETHNICITY.

WHAT THAT’S GOING TO DO NOW FOR 2024 WITH THIS NEW CENSUS IS ALLOWS HIM TO SIT WITH THAT AND NOT FACE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE HAVING BLACK EXPERIENCES.

IT’S GOING TO CREATE AN ABSOLUTE DENIAL OF HOW MUCH BLACKNESS IS A PART OF THE LATINO COMMUNITY.

I WILL NOT CHECK OFF ANYTHING OTHER THAN BLACK FIRST, EVEN AS A PANAMANIAN.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THE CENSUS IS, IT’S ABOUT RESOURCES AND EDUCATION.

I DO NOT GET SEEN AS A PANAMANIAN FIRST.

I GET SEEN AS A BLACK WOMAN.

PHILLIP: THIS SEEMS LIKE AN EXTENSION OF THE POLITICS OF LATIN AMERICA.

WHICH OBTUSE GATES THE ROLE OF AFRO-LATINOS SYSTEMATICALLY.

SO WHAT CAN BE DONE, IN YOUR VIEW?

DR. RIVERA-RIDEAU: THAT’S THE QUESTION.

THAT’S WHY WE ARE HERE.

I WANT TO BUILD A BIT ON WHAT YVETTE WAS SAYING.

THE DANGER IS THE IDENTITY PIECE BUT ALSO THE DATA WE HAVE DOES SHOW DISCREPANCIES BETWEEN BLACK LATINOS AND NON-BLACK LATINOS AROUND SOCIOECONOMIC INDICATORS.

ALL THOSE THINGS THAT WE ARE USED TO.

I THINK PART OF THE DANGER IS ALSO NOT HAVING THAT DATA, THAT MATERIAL TO ADVOCATE FOR MORE RESOURCES FOR AFRO-LATINO COMMUNITIES AND ADDRESS RACISM WITHIN LATINO COMMUNITIES.

PHILLIP: YES.

DR. RIVERA-RIDEAU: THAT’S ANOTHER REALLY IMPORTANT PART.

I WANT TO SHOUT OUT AN AMAZING LEGAL SCHOLAR TONYA KATERINA HERNANDEZ AND HER BOOK.

THERE SHE’S LOOKING AT ONE OF THE STORIES SHE TALKS ABOUT WITHIN THE LEGAL REALM.

WHEN A AFRO-LATINO BRINGS A DISCRIMINATION CASE AGAINST A NONBLACK LATINO AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM DOESN’T UNDERSTAND HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH LATINO SO HOW CAN THEY BOTH BE EXPERIENCING RACISM FROM A MEMBER OF THEIR GROUP?

THE DANGER THAT YOU ARE POINTING OUT IS REALLY FURTHERING THESE VERY ENTRENCHED FORMS OF SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION TOWARDS AFRO-LATINOS FROM NON-LATINOS AND LATINOS THEMSELVES.

PHILLIP: YOU ALWAYS HEAR THAT LATINOS ARE NOT A MONOLITH.

BUT YET ARE TREATED MONOLITHICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES OF RACE.

SO ON AND SO FORTH.

YOUR EVERYDAY EXPERIENCE, YOU LIVE THIS.

YOU REFERENCE THIS AT THE VERY BEGINNING.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO BASICALLY NAVIGATE THESE CONTOURS OF RACE AND COLOR?

HOW DO YOU DO IT ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS?

NAHEEM: YOU SET THE TONE AND SPEAK YOUR WORDS.

WE ALL WANT TO BE POLITICALLY POLITE AND ALL THIS OTHER BUSINESS.

THERE’S NOTHING TO BE POLITE ABOUT.

YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE.

I AM LATINO.

I AM CUBAN.

I AM A CUBAN MAN.

BUT I AM BLACK AND I’M NOT GOING TO HIDE THAT.

NOW, I WANT YOU TO KNOW UPFRONT THAT I’M A VERY HISPANIC MAN.

THAT GETS WHITEWASHED WHEN YOU SEE ME IMMEDIATELY.

YOU SEE ME AND YOU THINK, YOU DON’T LOOK CUBAN.

THAT USED TO BURN ME.

I DON’T LOOK CUBAN?

WHAT DOES CUBAN LOOK LIKE?

PHILLIP: FIDEL CASTRO.

[LAUGHTER] NAHEEM: EVEN AMONG HISPANIC PEOPLE.

THEY LOOK AT YOU LIKE COME YOU DON’T LOOK HISPANIC.

BUT YOUR GRANDFATHER IS DARKER THAN ME, HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?

PHILLIP: PERHAPS THERE’S NOT ENOUGH DISCUSSION WITHIN LATINOS.

NAHEEM: IT’S NOT ACCEPTABLE.

JOSE: THAT’S PART OF THE WHOLE SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT COMES FROM HOME.

YOU SPEAK ABOUT RACE, YOU DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT SEX FOR SURE.

THEREFORE IF THIS WAS NOT AN ISSUE THAT YOU SPOKE OF, YOU ASSUME -- I ALWAYS SAY, WE NEED TO UNLEARN THE THINGS WE’VE LEARNED TO LEARN THE THINGS WE NEED TO LEARN TO KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT, IT IS OUR ROLE COLLECTIVELY AND OTHERS THAT WE KNOW TO REALLY MOVE THE DIAL IN THE CONVERSATION SO THAT WE UPLIFT THE FACT THAT AFRICA IS VERY MUCH PART OF OUR MOTHERLAND.

THERE’S A MYTH THAT THE MOTHERLAND IS SPAIN.

NO.

WE HAVE TO UPLIFT THE FACT THAT WHEN AFRICANS WERE BROUGHT TO THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE AND ENSLAVED, THEY WERE NOT JUST BROUGHT TO NORTH AMERICA.

THEY WERE BROUGHT TO BRAZIL, THE CARIBBEAN, LATIN AMERICA AS WELL.

I HAVE NO IDEA IF HIS FAMILY, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR FAMILY ARE CONNECTED TO MY FAMILY.

SOMEWHERE THEY ARE.

PART OF WHAT WE NEED TO DO IN THIS CONVERSATION AND OUR ROLES THAT WE EMBRACE IS, WE ARE PURPOSELY UPLIFTING THE IDEA THAT AFRICAN DESCENDANTS COME FROM NORTH TO SOUTH IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE AND WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, CELEBRATE IT, UPLIFT IT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE AND EVERYTHING AWAY THAT WE CAN.

PHILLIP: INDEED.

SOME DO.

IN AWARD WINNING POET ELIZABETH ACEVEDO’S POEM, "HAIR" SHE DESCRIBES HOW HER HAIR, OUR HAIR IS A SYMBOL OF HISTORY AND HERITAGE.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> MY MOTHER TELLS ME TO FIX MY HAIR.

AND BY "FIX," SHE MEANS STRAIGHTEN.

SHE MEANS WHITEN.

BUT HOW DO YOU FIX THIS SHIP-WRECKED HISTORY OF HAIR?

THE TRUE MEANING OF STRANDED, WHEN TRUSSES HELD TIGHT LIKE AFRICAN COUSINS IN SHIP BELLIES, DID THEY IMAGINE THAT THEIR GREAT-GRAND-CHILDREN WOULD LOOK LIKE US, AND WOULD HATE THEM HOW WE DO?

TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO ERASE THEM OUT OF OUR SKIN, IRON THEM OUT OF OUR HAIR, THIS WILD TANGLE OF HAIR THAT STRANGLES AIR.

YOU CALL THEM WILD CURLS.

I CALL THEM BREATHING.

ANCESTORS SPIRALING.

CAN’T YOU SEE THEM IN THIS WET HAIR THAT WAVES LIKE HELLO?

PHILLIP: NOTHING THAT DEFINES BLACKNESS AS MUCH AS HAIR, BEYOND SKIN COLOR ITSELF.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

YVETTE: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT BUT I WANT TO MENTION SOMETHING.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T KNOW THAT LATIN AMERICA HAS PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT.

TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION OF US NOT KNOWING THAT WE ARE IS ALMOST A CONTRADICTION TO WHAT OUR NUMBERS ARE.

200 MILLION PLUS.

AFTER NIGERIA, IT’S BRAZIL, COLOMBIA, ECUADOR.

THE U.S. DOESN’T COME UNTIL FIVE OR SIX.

THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT SURE OF OUR BLACK IDENTITY AND AFRICAN IDENTITY BECOMES A BAFFLING THING.

BUT HAIR -- I RECENTLY COWROTE A PLAY CALLED THE CROWN OF TIMES THAT RAN OF THE -- AT THE MUSEUM OF SCIENCE LAST SUMMER.

WHEN WE TRAIN ADULTS, YOUNG PEOPLE AND WE HAVE A PART THAT SAYS, WALK ACROSS THE ROOM IF YOU LOVE YOUR HAIR.

NO ONE MOVES.

IT’S THE PLACE WHERE YOU CAN’T HIDE THAT YOU ARE BUT IT’S THE PLACE THAT YOU GO FIRST TO HIDE IT.

SO HAIR IS VERY MUCH A PART OF OUR EMBRACING OF OUR AFRICAN IDENTITY.

I’VE HAD MEN, WOMEN CRYING, ADULTS, CHILDREN.

MY HAIR IS BAD.

IT IS SUCH A THING.

I’VE HAD FRIENDS SAY THAT THEY GOT THEIR HAIR PERMED AT EIGHT YEARS OLD JUST TO HIDE THEIR KINKS.

I HAD YOUNG GIRLS NOT COME TO SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T GO TO THE HAIR SALON THAT WEEKEND TO HIDE THEIR CURLS BECAUSE THEY NEEDED IT TO BE STRAIGHT.

PHILLIP: THE PROBLEM OF THAT TYPE OF IMAGERY, THE ATTEMPTS TO HIDE ONES BLACKNESS.

200 MILLION PEOPLE ACROSS LATIN AMERICA.

YET YOU DON’T SEEM TO HAVE -- WITH THE EXCEPTION OF BRAZIL, YOU HAVE A FLOURISHING AFRO BRAZILIAN MOVEMENT.

M.I.T.

TALKED ABOUT THIS A BIT.

YOU TELL ME IF I’M WRONG.

WHERE IS THIS HAPPENING?

WHERE BLACKNESS IS ASCENDANT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING BACK AGAINST COLORISM OR DYING SKIN AND PERMIT HAIR.

JOSE: PUERTO RICO, THEY ARE PURPOSELY UPLIFTING OUR AFRICAN ASCENDANCY.

THAT’S ONE.

A WHOLE MOVEMENT TRYING TO DO EXACTLY WITH WHAT YVETTE SAID, MOVING THE PARADIGM OF THINKING.

THE ONLY WAY A BLACK WOMAN COULD LOOK BEAUTIFUL WAS TO STRAIGHTEN HER HAIR.

THEY WERE FIRST THIS.

-- REVERSED THIS.

LET’S BE PROUD OF OUR CURLS.

THERE’S A MOVEMENT OCCURRING THERE.

THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WITHIN THE LATIN AMERICA SPHERE.

WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS THOSE POCKETS, AS YOU PUT THEM TOGETHER, BECOME A STRONG MOVEMENT.

BACK TO THE UNITED STATES, THERE ARE TWO SIDES.

IN THE LAST 49 YEARS I’VE BEEN DOING RADIO, I WOULD SAY THE NUMBER OF AFRICAN DESCENDANTS WHO NOW IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS BEING AFRICAN DESCENDANTS WHO COME FROM THE CARIBBEAN, ENGLISH-SPEAKING OR SPANISH-SPEAKING, HAS GROWN IMMENSELY IN THEM BEING PROUD OF BEING AFRICAN DESCENDANTS.

THE CHALLENGE ON THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT, AS MORE AND MORE OF THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY IS COMING FROM LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN’S, THEY ARE COMING WITH BAGGAGE THAT IS EUROCENTRIC .

THE CASTE SYSTEM IS SUCH.

THEREFORE IT SAYS, THE LIGHTER THE SKIN, THE BETTER YOU ARE.

THEREFORE, THEY ARE TRYING TO MOVE AWAY FROM BEING IDENTIFIED AS DARK SKINNED OR BLACK TO BEING IDENTIFIED AS BEING LAX -- LIGHT-SKINNED AND DENYING THEIR BLACKNESS.

SO WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT ARGUMENT AND CHANGE THAT SENSE OF WHAT THE PARADIGM IS, AS TO WHAT IS ACCEPTED AS BEING BEAUTIFUL, EMPOWERED, HAVING AGENCY, PART OF THE FABRIC OF WHO WE ARE.

PHILLIP: WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WRAP IT UP.

YOU SUMMED IT UP SO WELL.

JUST BRIEFLY, AS AN ACTOR, YOU CARRY THE WEIGHT OF REPRESENTATION IN MANY WAYS.

HAS YOUR LATINO HERITAGE AND YOUR BLACKNESS COME OUT IN STAGE IN WAYS THAT MIGHT BE UNEXPECTED?

NAHEEM: ALL THE TIME, EVERY TIME.

I IDENTIFIED AS NAHEEM: GARCIA.

I WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT SOMETHING WAS COMING THROUGH THE DOOR THAT WAS NOT STEREOTYPICAL.

BLACK AND LATINO.

THAT WAS IMPORTANT.

IT GOES BACK TO THE FIRST QUESTION YOU ASKED ME.

EDUCATION IS EVERYTHING.

WE HAVE TO UNLEARN A LOT OF THINGS.

THE LATINO COMMUNITY DON’T THINK THEY HAVE TO.

THAT’S THE FIRST PROBLEM.

THEY DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY RACISM YET.

THERE’S A LOT MORE RACISM IN THE LATINO COMMUNITY THAN I’VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.

I DIDN’T SEE IT UNTIL I WAS 12 YEARS OLD.

I STARTED TO NOTICE THE LEVEL OF RACISM AMONG US.

PHILLIP: THAT’S WHERE WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT, MY FRIENDS.

[LAUGHTER] THAT’S THE END OF OUR BROADCAST AND THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANK YOU AND ALL OF OUR GUESTS.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON OUR DIGITAL PLATFORMS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

♪ ♪