>> Ted: COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL KRIS MAYES JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT PROSECUTING ABORTION CRIMES, DEFENDING DUAL LANGUAGE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND FAKE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS.

THOSE STORIES MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA HORIZON.

I'M TED SIMONS.

FORMER STATE LAWMAKER, MARK FINCHEM HAS DROPPED HIS LAWSUIT CHALLENGING THE RESULTS OF LAST YEAR'S ELECTION FOR SECRETARY OF STATE WHICH HE LOST TO ADRIAN FONTES.

THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC REPORTS THEY FILED A MOTION TO DISMISS ON JULY 30th.

HE REPORTEDLY SENT AN EMAIL THE NEXT DAY ASKING FOR DONATIONS TO COVER HIS LEGAL BILLS STATING, QUO,QUOTE, I'M READY TO KEEP IT GOING.

HE'S ON NOTE FOR $40,000 IN ATTORNEY'S FEES TO DEFEND AGAINST THE LAWSUIT.

>>> THE UNSEALING OF FOUR CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN, ANDY BIGGS CALLED THIS A WITCH HUNT AND REPRESENTATIVE ELI CRANE SAYS THEY THINK WAS WERE A PITFUL DIVERSION AND SAID TRUMP WILL TAINT THE HISTORY BOOKS AS THE MOST CORRUPT PRESIDENT.

>>> THIS WAS AT A WORSHIP SIN SYNAGOG, THAT THEY SHOULD RECEIVE THE DIFFICULT PENALTY AND THEY WILL IMPOSE THE SENTENCE TOMORROW.

HE CARRIED THIS OUT DURING SABBATH AND THE DEADLIEST ANTI-SEMANTIC ATTACK IN HISTORY.

>>> AN ASU SUN DEVIL SAID IS NO MORE AND NOW CALLED MOUNTAIN AMERICA STADIUM.

ASU ANNOUNCED THE 15-YEAR NAMING RIGHT'S DEAL AND THE NAME CHANGE COMES AS ASU WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH REPORTEDLY CONSIDERING LEAVING THE PACK 12 CONFERENCE TO JOIN THE BIG 12 CONFERENCE.

>>> A RECENT EXECUTIVE ORGANIZE FROM GOVERNOR HOBBS REMOVES COUNTY ATTORNEYS OVER ABORTION RELATED PROSECUTIONS AND GIVES THAT AUTHORITY TO THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

THEY HAVE VOICED OPPOSITION AND MARICOPA ATTORNEY, RACHEL MITCHELL, SAYS SHE WILL IGNORE THE ORDER SHOULD A CASE BE FILED.

FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER ISSUES INVOLVING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WE WELCOME KRIS MAYES.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> Ted: WE HAVE A LOT TO TALK ABOUT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS ORDER AND WHY THIS IS A GOOD THING AND WHY THIS AUTHORITY SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM COUNTY ATTORNEYS.

>> I DO BELIEVE THAT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT GOVERNOR HOBBS ISSUED WAS APPROPRIATE.

I BELIEVE IT WAS LAWFUL AND I THINK THE LAW IS CLEAR ON THIS MATTER AND I THINK QUITE FRANKLY, IT WAS ALMOST NECESSITATED BY WHAT THE SUPREME COURT DID WITH THE DOBB'S CASE.

WHEN ROE V. WADE WAS JOAN OVERTURNED BY DOBBS, THE SUPREME COURT SENT IT BACK TO THE STATES.

THEY DIDN'T SEND IT BACK TO 15 COUNTY ATTORNEYS.

THEY SENT IT BACK TO THE STATES AND SO, WHAT GOVERNOR HOBBS DID AS THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE WAS ISSUED AN EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT CONSOLIDATED PROSECUTORIAL AUTHORITY OVER ABORTION CASES IN ONE PLACE AND THAT WAS MY OFFICE, THE AG'S OCHES.

OFFICE.

THAT'S APPROPRIATE TO NOT HAVE 15 DIFFERENT COUNTY ATTORNEYS, YOU KNOW, ENFORCING THE LAW IN 15 DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> Ted: IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE, BUT THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS SAY THAT THE GOVERNOR SIMPLY DOESN'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

>> I THINK THAT'S JUST WRONG AND, YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD A GOOD DIALOGUE WITH THE COUNTY ATTORNEYS ABOUT THIS AND, YOU KNOW, I HAVE WHAT'S CALLED SUPERVISORY AUTHORITY AND WE HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

THERE'S PRECEDENT FOR A GOVERNOR TAKING A CASE AWAY FROM COUNTY ATTORNEYS AND THAT HAPPENED BACK UNDER BRUCE BABBOTT WHEN HE WAS THE GOVERNOR.

SO WE KNOW THAT THE PRECEDENT -- HERE IS THE THING AND WHY IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE WOMEN AND DOCTORS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS OF THIS STATE.

WE NEED -- THEY NEED TO HAVE CERTAINTY ABOUT THIS AND WHAT I'VE SAID IS, YOU KNOW, DO NOT -- AND THE PEOPLE OF ARIZONA DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR PROSECUTORS TO BE GOING AFTER DOCTORS FOR ABORTION CARE, FOR REPRODUCTIVE SERVICES.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, TED, THIS IS IMPORTANT.

THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF COUNTY ATTORNEYS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN CLEAR ABOUT WHETHER THEY INTEND TO PROSECUTE DOCTORS IN ARIZONA.

>> Ted: I BROUGHT THAT UP WHEN WE TALKED TO RACHEL MITCHELL, AND SHE UNDERSTANDS, BUT SHE SAYS AGAIN -- AND OTHER COUNTY ATTORNEYS WHO WROTE A COLLECTIVE LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR.

>> NOT ALL OF THEM.

>> Ted: MOST OF THEM, YEAH, BASICALLY SAYING THAT YOU JUST CAN'T ASSUME SOMEONE ELSE'S, ESPECIALLY AN ELECTED OFFICIAL'S JURISDICTION.

>> BUT YOU CAN.

AND THE LAW ALLOWS IT IN THIS CASE.

AND AGAIN, AS THE TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND THE TOP LEGAL OFFICER IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA, I HAVE SUPERVISORY AUTHORITY OVER THE COUNTY AUTHORITIES AND, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE LIKE RACHEL MITCHELL TO BE MORE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT SHE PLANS TO DO.

DOES SHE PLAN TO PROSECUTE DOCTORS?

AND, YOU KNOW, DOES, FOR INSTANCE, THE COUNTY ATTORNEY OF YAVAPAI COUNTY PLAN TO GO AFTER DOCTORS?

WE WON'T DO THIS IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA.

LOOK, WE HAVE BIG ISSUES IN OUR STATE AND WE HAVE TO BE TACKLING THE FENTANYL CRISIS AND PROTECTING OUR CONSUMERS AGAINST FRAUD.

NOBODY REALLY WANTS US TO BE PROSECUTING THESE CASES.

>> Ted: LAST QUESTION ON THIS, YOU MENTIONED PRECEDENT AND THIS IS OVERARCHING FOR EVERYTHING AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE THERE.

>> THERE IS.

>> Ted: LET'S TALK PRECEDENT IN A DIFFERENT MATTER.

WHAT IF ANOTHER GOVERNOR AND ATTORNEY GENERAL COME IN AND DECIDE YOU CAN'T PROSECUTE GUN LAWS, YOU CAN'T PROSECUTE ALL SORTS OF OTHER THINGS.

CRITICS OF THE MOVE, THEY SAY THIS IS A BAD THING TO GET STARTED?

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT AND THEIR CONCERNS, BUT I WOULD GO BACK TO THE DOBB'S DECISION WHICH SENT THIS ISSUE BACK TO THE STATES AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE A CORELLARY WHERE THEY SENT IT BACK TO THE STATES TO GOVERNORS AND AG'S AND LEGISLATURES THAT YOU DECIDE THIS ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR MADE HER DECISION.

I THINK IT'S LAWFUL UNDER CASELAW AND ULTIMATELY, TED, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN 2024, IS THAT THE PEOPLE OF ARIZONA ARE GOING TO HAVE A BALLOT INITIATIVE IN FRONT OF THEM AND THE PEOPLE OF ARIZONA ARE GOING TO DECIDE THAT THE WOMEN OF THE STATE HAVE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE DESTINY.

>> Ted: SO THE PRECEDENT DOESN'T NECESSARILY BOTHER YOU?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT IS GOING -- WELL, LOOK, YOU KNOW, IF THIS WERE WILDLY APPLIED, DO I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING?

NO, I DON'T.

I THINK THIS WAS A VERY SPECIFIC CASE WHERE WE HAD TO DO THIS.

AND IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO DO IT.

>> Ted: FAKE ELECTORS HERE YOUR OFFICE IS INVESTIGATING.

CAN YOU TELL US WHAT SPECIFICALLY YOU'RE LOOKING AT?

>> SO AS YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN CLEAR THAT WE ARE INVESTIGATING THE FAKE ELECTORS AND I THINK THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO STATE THAT.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020 IS SOMETHING THAT CAN GO UN-INVESTIGATED AND UNEXAMINED.

BEYOND THAT, I AM NOT GOING TO SAY MUCH BECAUSE WE DON'T COMMENT ON ONGOING INVESTIGATIONS.

AND I'LL JUST HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY LATER ON DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Ted: DID THE FELONY CHARGES AGAINST, I THINK 16 FAKE ELECTORS IN MICHIGAN, DID THAT ALTER YOUR PATH IN ANYWAY?

>> WE WERE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT IS GOING ON IF MICHIGAN AND GEORGIA.

OUR INVESTIGATION IS SEPARATE.

>> Ted: THERE WERE TWO GROUPS AND EVERYONE WAS A FAKE ELECTORS AND ARE YOU LOOKING AT BOTH GROUPS OR ONE IN PARTICULAR?

>> IT'S FAIR TO SAY WE'RE EXAMINING THE ENTIRE SITUATION.

>> Ted: THE INDICTMENTS AGAINST DONALD TRUMP YESTERDAY, DOES THAT ALTER THE COURSE OF THE INVESTIGATION?

>> LOOK, THE INDICTMENT THAT CAME DOWN YESTERDAY WAS OBVIOUSLY IMPORTANT AND SERIOUS AND THERE WAS A LOT OF, AS YOU KNOW, IT'S POSSIBLY AND A PUBLIC DOCUMENT AND THE A LOT OF A LOT OF INFORMATION.

I WON SAY ALTERS BUT IT'S A FACTOR.

>> Ted: POSSIBLY.

POSSIBLY.

>> Ted: DUAL LANGUAGE PROGRAMS, SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, TOM HORNE THREATENS TO CUT FUNDS TO SCHOOL DISTRICTS IF THEY ARE DOING DUAL LANGUAGE PROGRAMS AND SAYS IT'S BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST THE LAW.

>> RIGHT.

>> Ted: WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> AND I SAY IT'S NOT HIS PLACE TO SAY THAT.

WE, AS YOU KNOW, ISSUED AN ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT ESSENTIALLY SAID WITH REGARD TO THE DUAL LANGUAGE PROGRAMS, THAT DECISION, A DECISION TO MODIFY IT OR TO DECLARE IT LEGAL OR NOT LEGAL REALLY RESTS IN THE HANDS OF STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION.

THAT'S A LARGE 11-PERSON BOARD OF WHICH TOM HORNE IS ONE AND WE BELIEVE UNDER THE LAW, IT'S NOT THE POSITION OF THE SUPERINTENDENT TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

THE OTHER THING I WOULD ADD,.

>> Ted: , TED, WE FELT COMPELLED COMPELLED TO MAKE THAT DECISION BECAUSE SCHOOL IS STARTING.

A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS HAVE THESE PROGRAMS AND THEY'RE WILDLY SUCCESSFUL AND WILDLY POPULAR AND WE'VE GOT MAN MANDARIN AND SPANISH AND CERTAINLY TO MOVE FORWARD IF THE STATE BOARD HAS CERTIFIED THEIR PROGRAMS AND IN ALL OF THE CASES, THE STATE BOARD HAS.

>> Ted: SUCCESSFUL AND POPULAR AND CERTIFIED AND YET, ACCORDING TO SUPERINTENDENT HORNE AND OTHERS WHO ARE CRITICAL OF THESE PROGRAMS, IT GOES AGAINST THE WILL OF THE VOTERS BECAUSE THE VOTERS HAVE DECIDED ON THIS AND THEY DON'T WANT THESE PROGRAMS.

>> I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE THAT'S THE CASE AND, AGAIN, UNDER THE LAW AS WE INTERPRETED IT, THAT'S FOR THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION TO DECIDE.

CERTAINLY WITH REGARD TO APPROVING CHANGES TO THE PROGRAM OR APPROVES THE DUAL LANGUAGE PROGRAMS THEMSELVES, THAT IS SOMETHING FOR THE STATE AND NOT TOM HORNE'S PLACE TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

>> Ted: DO THESE PROGRAMS COMPLY WITH STATE LAW?

>> YOU KNOW, TED, WE WERE PRETTY CAREFUL NOT TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION IN THE AG OPINION.

THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WE JUMP INTO LATER ON.

WE WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT IT WAS THE PLACE OF THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

>> Ted: SO, BASICALLY, YEAH, AS FAR AS FUNDING IS CONCERNED, KNOCK IT OFF.

>> EXACTLY, STOP MESSING WITH THE CERTAINTY AND THE FUNDING OR THREATENING THE FUNDING OF THE PROGRAMS.

IT'S NOT YOUR PLACE.

YOU CAN'T DO IT, TOM HORNE AND LEAVE IT WHERE IT BELONGS.

>> Ted: ONE MORE THING TO TALK ABOUT, SUPREME COURT RULING AND THE DESIGNER REGARDING PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS AND NOT ACCEPTING BUSINESS FROM SAME-SEX COUPLES.

BASICALLY SAYING THE DESIGNER HAS A FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SAY I DON'T WANT BUSINESS FROM YOU.

YOU ARE SAYING OTHERWISE.

IS THAT YOUR PLACE TO SAY SUCH A THING?

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COLORADO CREATIVE 303 CASE?

>> Ted: YES.

>> A PUBLIC ACCOMMODATIONS CASE AND ONE INVOLVING AN EXPRESSIVE ACTIVITY WHERE A WEB DESIGNER WAS REFUSING TO DESIGN FOR A GAY COUPLE.

BASICALLY WHAT I CAME OUT AND SAID WAS, LOOK, ARIZONA HAS PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION'S LAWS AND WE'LL ENFORCE THOSE LAWS.

PEOPLE MAY HAVE MISINTERPRETED BY STATEMENT A LITTLE BIT THERE.

WHAT I WAS SAYING IS THAT WE INTEND TO FULLY ENFORCE OUR PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION LAWS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID IN THAT VERY NARROW DECISION REGARDING EXPRESSIVE SERVICES.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, IF A RESTAURANT TRIES TRIES TO DENY SERVICE TO A GAY COUPLE, THEY CAN'T DO THAT UNDER OUR ANTIDISCRIMINATION LAW.

WHAT I'M DOING IS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE, IF THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, TO BRING YOUR COMPLAINT TO ME BECAUSE WE'LL ENFORCE THOSE PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION LAWS.

>> Ted: BUT REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SUPREME COURT DECIDED.

THE SUPREME COURT DID DECIDE X AND TO SAY THAT WHAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO ABIDE BY X, YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT?

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE MISINTERPRETED THAT.

>> Ted: I DID NOT SAY WE'LL NOT ABIDE BY THE SUPREME COURT DECISION.

BUT AGAIN, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE AND SEE HOW NARROW THAT DECISION WAS.

IT WAS EXPRESSIVE SERVICES INVOLVING SPEECH, BUT IT DID NOT EMBLYNOTIMPLICATE OUR PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION LAWS BASED ON SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION RACE AND NATIONAL ORIGIN.

TED MUCH OF WHAT WE >> Ted: MUCH IS INTERPRETING PROSECUTORIAL DISCRETION AND LAWS, FEDERAL, STATE AND WHAT HOLDS SWAY AND HOW MUCH AUTHORITY YOU HAVE.

HOW DO YOU MAKE PEOPLE COMFORTABLE KNOWING YOU ARE WALKING THE LINE HERE AS OPPOSED TO, I'M JUST NOT GOING TO DO THIS OR THAT?

>> WELL, I'M JUST TRYING TO INTERPRET THE LAW IN THE WAY THAT IT NEEDS TO BE SUMMER PRETTEDINTERPRETED.I BELIEVE IN OUR CONSTITUTION AND LAWS.

I'M HERE TO ENFORCE THE LAW, BOTH THE STATE CONSTITUTION AND STATE STATUTES AND CALLS BALLS AND STRIKES.

I'M TRYING TO DO THIS IN THE A-POLITICAL WAY I CAN.

I CAMPAIGNED ON TAKING THE POLITICS OUT AG'S OFFICE AND I'M JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO TRY TO DO THAT.

BUT YOU KNOW, I ALSO CAMPAIGNED ON A NUMBER OF THINGS, INCLUDING ENFORCING OUR CIVIL RIGHT'S LAWS IN ARIZONA.

>> Ted: FOR SOME OF THE STATE LAWMAKERS, THEY'RE EXTREMELY UPSET ABOUT THE EXECUTIVE ORDER REGARDING ABORTION PROSECUTION.

YOU SAY TO THEM?

>> I SAY TO THEM I'M INTERPRETING THE STATE STATUTE AND I'M INTERPRETING THE EXECUTIVE ORDER AND APPLYING THAT TO THE STATUTES INCLUDING THE STATUTE STATUTE THAT APPLIES TO ME.

I'M ALSO SAYING, HEY, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN ARIZONA, LET'S REMEMBER, THIS IS ABOUT ARIZONANS, AND THEY DO NOT WANT DOCTORS PROSECUTED FOR ABORTION SERVICES.

>> Ted: KRIS MAYES, ALWAYS A PLEASURE AND THANK YOU FOR STOPPING BY.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Ted: COULD EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS LEAD TO A FINANCIAL MELTDOWN?

>> WE PRESENT ONE OF THE NATION'S GREAT WESTERN SWING DANCE BANDS IN ALL OF THE WESTERN PLAYBOYS.

♪♪ ♪ OH, THE DARK HAS.♪ AND IT SHOWS THEM PEARLLY WHITES >> A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF OFFICE BUILDINGS ARE EMPTY IN CITIES ACROSS THE U.S. AND MANY WORKERS CONTINUE TO DO THEIR JOBS FROM THEIR HOMES AND QUITE A FEW OF WORKERS MAY NEVER RETURN TO THEIR OFFICES FULL-TIME WHICH RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OFFICE BUILDINGS AND HOW THAT FUTURE WILL IMPACT THE ECONOMY JOINING US NOW IS MARK STAPP AND WE LOVE TALKING ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE MARKET, COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL AND THIS IS COMMERCIAL AND OFFICE SPACES AND HOW COMMON ARE THESE THINGS EMPTY RIGHT NOW?

>> IT'S VERY COMMON.

YOU KNOW, THE PANDEMIC HAD AN EFFECT ON COMMERCIAL SPACE IN GENERAL IN AND A PROFOUND EFFECT ON OFFICE SPACE IN PARTICULAR.

YOU KNOW, THIS CAME AT A TIME WHEN TECHNOLOGY WAS CONVERGING WITH CHANGING IN BEHAVIOR.

EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, WE WERE REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE NEEDED PER EMPLOYEE AND WE HAD OTHER KINDS OF USES THAT WERE GOING INTO OFFICE BUILDINGS THAT WERE AROUND THE IDEA OF CO-OFFICING, BUT THE PANDEMIC COUPLED WITH TECHNOLOGY HAS ALLOWED US TO HAVE REMOTE WORK REALLY PROPELLED THIS BIG CHANGE.

>> Ted: IT SEEMS LIKE THAT REMOTE WORK IS CATCHING ON AND HANGING ON FOR AWHILE.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE OFFICE BUILDINGS, THESE OFFICE SPACES?

THEY CAN'T STAY EMPTY FOREVER.

LOANS HAVE TO BE PAID OFF AND THEY'RE OWNED AND FINANCED AND WHAT HAPPENS?

>> NOT ALL OFFICE SPACE IS SUFFERING.

AND YOU REALLY LOOK AT THE TYPE OF OFFICE AND THE TYPE OF OFFICE HAS TO DO WITH THE AMENITIES THAT ARE OFFERED TO THE EMPLOYEE AND THE EMPLOYER.

AND SO SOME OF THE OLDER OFFICE BUILDINGS, IT'S A REAL PROBLEM.

FOR PHOENIX, IN THE METRO PHOENIX AREA, WE'RE NOT A BIG MARKET.

IN SAN FRANCISCO, NEW YORK, CHICAGO, THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM FOR THE PLACE ITSELF.

IT'S A BIG PROBLEM FOR ANYBODY WHO OWNS AN OFFICE BUILDING BECAUSE LENDERS NEED TO BE REPAID AND THE OFFICE BUILDING IS A COLLATERAL AND WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE SAME OCCUPANCY ONE LOSE VALUE.

THE CAPITALLED VALUE OF THE ASSET GOES DOWN AND YOU RUN INTO A PROBLEM EITHER WITH YOUR LOAN COUGHCOUGH FENCECOVENANCE OR GENERATING CASHFLOW.

>> Ted: IT COULD IMPACT THE ECONOMY OVERALL OR IS THAT TOO MUCH SKY IS FALLING BUSINESS?

>> I DON'T THINK SO, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S A DISASTER.

THE REASON IS THAT LENDERS DON'T WANT THESE BACK BECAUSE IF THEY TAKE THEM BACK, WHAT DO THEY DO WITH THEM?

IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'LL SELL THEM IF THERE'S NO DEMAND.

WHAT WILL LIKELY HAPPEN, YOU'LL SEE MORE WORKOUTS.

WE LEARN FROM THE PANDEMIC.

LENDERS LEARN FROM THE PANDEMIC THAT ENFORCING YOUR RIGHTS TO TAKE THE PROPERTY BACK DOESN'T NECESSARILY RESULT IN A GOOD OUTCOME.

BUT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF PRIVATE CAPITAL LOOKING AT THESE ASSETS AND SAYING, HEY, WHAT I CAN BUY WELL BELOW REPLACEMENT COSTS.

SO SOME WILL BE PURCHASED AND SOME WILL BE WORKED OUT AND SOME WILL BE JUST OBSOLETE.

THIS IS JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED WITH RETAIL SPACE IN THE EARLY 2000'S AND EARLY AND MID2000'S.

TECHNOLOGY RESULTING IN HOW WE SHOP AND INTERACT WITH BUYING GOODS AND USING SERVICES CHANGED OUR USE OF THE RETAIL SPACE.

THERE WAS A LONG TIME I WAS GETTING CALLS ALL OF THE TIME.

RETAIL IS DEAD AND THE MALL IS DEAD.

THAT WASN'T THE CASE AND IT HAS COME BACK, BUT A LOT OF THOSE ASSETS WERE NO LONGER USEFUL AND IT WAS CONVERTED INTO OTHER THINGS.

SOME OF THAT WILL HAPPEN WITH OFFICE.

>> Ted: COULD SOME OF THESE THINGS BE CONVERTED AND I THINK IN SAN FRANCISCO, THEY'RE LOOKING AT TURNS THESE IN HOTELS AND HOUSING UNITS.

>> PROBABLY HOTELS EASIER THAN APARTMENTS OR CONDOS.

IT'S NOT REALLY AS FEASIBLE AS PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO THINK TO CONVERT AN OFFICE BUILDING INTO APARTMENTS.

THE HEATING, COOLING, ELECTRICAL, THE STRUCTURAL SYSTEM ISN'T DESIGNED FOR IT AND IT MAKES IT INEFFICIENT AND INEXPENSIVE TO DO.

THERE'S NOT A PANACEA.

LET'S CONVERT THESE AND VERY FEW EXAMPLES TO BE FEASIBLE.

SOME OF THEM, THOUGH, MAY NOT BE USEFUL AL ALL AND THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY CONVERTED INTO SOMETHING ELSE.

>> Ted: WITH THAT MIND HERE, YOU MENTIONED 15, 20 YEARS AGO AND PEOPLE WERE SAYING IT'S GONE AND IT CAME BACK.

OFFICE BUILDINGS, OFFICE SPACE AND ARE THEY GONE FOREVER?

>> NO.

>> Ted: OR WILL IT COME BACK?

OFFICE SPACE IS NOT GONE FOREVER.

THERE ARE OFFICES IN METROPOLITAN PHOENIX AND OTHER PARTS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE 100% OCCUPIED NEWER BUILDINGS WITH AMENITIES THAT ARE REALLY CONDUCIVE TO ATTRACTING THE EMPLOYEE OR ATTRACTIVE TO THE EMPLOYER.

SO YOU SEE THE NEWER BUILDINGS THAT ARE MORE EFFICIENT THAT HAVE CERTAIN AMENITIES IN THEM THAT MAKE IT DESIRABLE, SO YOU REALLY HAVE TO SEGMENT THIS INTO TWO PARTS OF THE OFFICE MARKET.

OLDER BUILDINGS THAT ARE NOT AS ATTRACTIVE, THAT ARE EXPENSIVE TO REHAB, THAT ARE OBSOLETE AND THOSE THAT ARE CURRENTLY MEETING WHAT EMPLOYERS ARE LOOKING FOR.

>> Ted: ABOUT 30 SECONDS HERE AND THIS REVIVAL IF IT DOES RETURN, A QUICK RETURN OR A GRADUAL?

>> I THINK IT'S OVER THE NEXT FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS.

>> Ted: AWHILE THEN.

>> AWHILE.

>> Ted: MARK, GOOD STUFF ON EMPTY OFFICE BUILDINGS AND DON'T PANIC IF YOU WALK DOWN AN EMPTY CORRIDOR IN A MAJOR AMERICAN CITY.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING!