>> Major funding for Chat Box with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association and the making public schools grade for every child.

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♪ David: hey, everybody.

Welcome to "ChatBox."

I am David Cruz.

Attorney General Matt Plotkin announced the takeover of the Patterson Police Department.

It was a major public action taken by the AG's office, and one that is fraught on many levels.

Let's get an update on Patterson and more from the Attorney General not Plotkin.

To see you.

It has been a while.

>> Thank you for having me.

David: you could have asked the Justice Department come in and handle the Patterson police.

Why state intervention?

>> Well, my job as the state's chief law enforcement officer is to keep everyone safe.

We made the determination and I made the determination that the long-standing concerns we have about a variety of issues in Patterson is a particular with the police department led me to believe that I could not fulfill my duty without stepping in and providing stability in leadership and resources, ensuring that the officers have the support they need to do the job that the residents deserve.

David: So he said this is more than the men being killed, but it seemed to represent a tipping point, at least for some of us looking outside in and also from some powder Sony and's -- Pattersonians.

Was timing a factor before or after?

Attorney General Matt Plotkin: look, we are investing that case so I can investigate -- comment on the case itself.

this is something we have considered for a long time.

There has been a series of high-profile misconduct, including many criminal charges and convictions, both by my office in the federal authorities, and their is a complete in my opinion breakdown, a decimation as I call it that the trust between community and law enforcement in that city, the third largest city in the state.

And, law enforcement cannot perform its duties without trust.

There are a lot of good officers in that Police Department, and when that trust is broken and it does not make their job any easier or safer.

The decision I made was made on my core belief that we needed to step in and provides stability, resources and rebuild that trust with the community that right now is broken.

David: so you issued an update a few days ago, but was in that?

There have not been wholesale changes, but what was in this initial report?

Attorney General Plotkin: we have been on the ground for less than a few weeks but have already started working and doing a full diagnostic of the department and have begun retraining officers on constitutional policing, including fourth amendment search and seizure training.

We have begun meeting with community stakeholders in the will be very much public community sessions for folks to weigh in.

We have announced we will work with the community to bring arrive together to Patterson.

arrive together which is a model that we have used in other parts of the state to take more enlightened approaches to mental health or emotional distress calls, and that program will not and cannot look the same in each community.

David: we should tell people in general the way it is now, but enforcement, unmarked cars, plainclothes officers arrived with a crisis intervention specialist, but you have heard some pushback from activists and advocates who said they don't want any police involved in that police can add more stress, or at least uniformed police or the presence of weaponry and things like that, yeah?

Attorney General Plotkin: so, arrive together has been a remarkably sensible program that we launched in Cumberland County in partnership with the police and the County prosecutors Association and mental health providers there.

The original model was a plainclothes officer, not in uniform in an unmarked car with a mental health professional arriving on the scene together.

That is where the name came from.

And we expanded the program to Union County, Elizabeth, was then, and then -- wind and County amide then expanded it with a telehealth approach in Atlantic County and a few weeks from now we will be in 10 counties across the state and the governor has proposed in his upcoming budget to have funding to make the statewide and we are bringing it to the state County, but before we launch the program in any community, we set down and met with stakeholders which we would do in Patterson at at the state County to identify the needs and resources and what the community saw as issues come so what you will see us arrive expanses that we have already been doing this.

Arrive looks differently in different communities.

So in some parts of the state where we are expanding next month, it is a social worker-led model.

Again, telehealth and one county.

There will be some instances and when you look across the country at other models, whether it be star, cahoots, many experts cite Emmett there are still calls that require a law enforcement response, and what we want to do is make sure that when that is necessary, it is done with folks who have the best training, the best experience working with mental health professionals, and at the direction of clinicians, and that is what we have been doing in other counties in the results speak for themselves.

We have helped hundreds of peoples of these calls that we know that tragically are most likely to result in bad outcomes , a bad use of force, unrest, we are not seeing that.

We have had no injuries and the other calls.

In a few instances where force was used was at the direction of the clinician to get an individual to treatment.

That is what we want to see in Patterson, state County, and the program we want to build statewide with community input.

David: I know you have other stuff on your plate, but policing and issues surrounding it are attracting a lot of attention.

The culture of policing seems at issue.

Let me bring up a situation Clark and I know you will tell me you cannot talk about it because it is under investigation, but your office took control of an investigation into misconduct at the police department after recording Scott the mayor, police chief -- caught the mayor, police chief, and another official using racial slurs.

It has been a year since your office has taken over.

Why is it taking so long and how close are you two having some news to report on that?

Attorney General Plotkin: well, you foreshadowed my answer, David.

I obviously can't talk about an active investigation, but everyone should rest assured it is active and we are not resting on our hands.

There are a variety of reasons investigations take longer than anyone would like, but as a general matter, and I think most people believe that in New Jersey, we have a tremendous number of really good law enforcement officers who are doing great work.

It is why we had a 25% reduction in shootings last year, a decline in auto theft over the past six months, so we are working with law enforcement every day to keep folks safe, but when someone behaves in a way that tarnishes that badge, it is not just tarnish their badge, but the badge of all 38,000 officers in the state and so one of the things were and permitting is what I considered to be the strongest police licensing program in the country which the legislature passed on the Governor signed early in my tenure, and outlaw among many other things will ensure that people who are biased, people who are posting on social media and saying racist things, that they're not just unfit for that particular office, that they can lose their license which means they cannot be a law enforcement officer in New Jersey and that can have an impact in other states so we are taking this very seriously.

Everyone should know my top priority as I said is keeping us safe.

That means ensuring we have law enforcement officers throughout the state that live up to that high standard, that everyone in every community deserves.

David: do you support the creation of civilian complaint review boards with subpoena power?

Attorney General Plotkin: I think that is a question for the legislature.

It would require a statute.

I think community plays a role in ensuring that law enforcement is functioning the way that everyone expects in hopes they will be.

My job is to operate within the existing statutory framework, and as we are doing in Patterson , the community will be in partnership with us.

I was with community members yesterday talking about the expansion of mental health programs, and we will continue to do that statewide and locally.

I defer openly for -- to the state legislature and governor on that, but in the absence of any new law, we will work with stakeholders across the state and ensure that we are holding law enforcement to a high standard, which is what most law enforcement officers want because most are holding themselves to a high standard in officers whether it be in New Jersey and we have seen this in our state for 1000 miles away in Memphis, that affects how they can do their jobs, whether or not they are involved in those instances.

David: reproductive rights are very much center stage in terms of people are looking at and are worried about.

We have seen these rulings on so-called abortion pills and their ability to be used, distributed, etc.

What actions is the state of New Jersey taking to ensure not only access to medications necessary, but procedures necessary for reproductive rights?

Attorney General Plotkin: David, last year, we had a real one-to gut punch of Supreme Court decisions on back-to-back days with the decision that upended over a century of law with respect to gun laws, and our concealed carry laws, and the next day, what I considered to be one of the worst decisions in the history of the Supreme Court , overturning 50 years of precedent reversing the Roe v. Wade decisions in the decisions that followed, and putting at risk reproductive health care for women across this country, including in New Jersey, so we took immediate action, stood up reproductive rights strike force in my office which brought together all civil/criminal authorities to ensure first and foremost that people were not harassed or targeted for taking advantage of what is a legal procedure and was legally available health care in the state of New Jersey.

Thanks to the legislature and governor, they have codified that and made it clear that reproductive health care is legal here, so we have worked with federal and local partners to ensure that anybody who would go to a center has the protection they need and if anybody is violating state/federal law, we will hold them accountable.

We have through civil authorities major doctors and health care providers understand they cannot be punished for doing what is legally allowed here in New Jersey making sure the doctors we license by the way in my department and regulate making sure they are safe to continue to perform the treatments that are legal here.

We have also helped large and small tech companies, holding them accountable for data privacy to Duy know that many people are fearful now for the data that they are using and providing two absent other platforms about their health care decisions.

Sometimes data that reflects information that they have told no one else, so what we want to make sure it those providers and we are holding them accountable are protecting that data and being clear about what the data can and cannot be used for.

And lastly, we are actively engaged in what I considered to be yet another horrible decision that we are seeing play out in the fifth circuit and I'm glad to say the DOJ will bring to this to the Supreme Court pick we are part of a coalition of Attorney General that supported the decision in the Fifth Circuit, which I believe is entirely correct and ultimately I hope the Supreme Court will see it the same way.

David: I wish we had more time.

Attorney General Matt Plotkin, thanks for taking a few minutes with us, man.

Attorney General Plotkin: Thank you for having me.

David: As we go to tape, the Rutgers strike continues, professors and graduate assistants walked off the job this week for the first time in the history of the University.

Governor Phil Murphy has tried to bring the two sides together, so far to no avail.

It is a gamble for a supposedly pro-labor governor and has not come without criticism.

Our next guest is not too cool with the governor's role in all of this, a former assemblyman and candidate for governor, Republican Jack Ciattarelli joins us now.

Welcome back to "ChatBox" man.

>> Just to be clear, I'm not an official candidate for governor.

No official declaration yet from Jack Chatterley.

David: Duly noted.

How close have you been watching what has been happening at Rutgers?

>> Very closely.

Your heart breaks for those students and those seniors a few months from completing their studies in graduation.

Here is the crisis.

David: Are you a part of that crew that says the governor is part of the reason for this strike?

Republican Jack Ciattarelli: He is in the sense that the university president wanted to leverage the legal basis by which the teachers could be ordered back into the classroom, and considering the time of year and how close we are to the end of the semester for particular seniors, I think the president should have been allowed to leverage that legal basis to order those teachers back into the classroom.

David: You would probably get an argument from the union saying they have considerably less leverage if they did a strike in the early part of the semester, yeah?

Jack: When people are paying that and being denied classroom access, I think the professors have leverage, even at the beginning of the year, but this is a terrible thing to do and I think the governor was wrong to take that hammer away from the college president.

David: Are you part of the group who is criticizing the governor for underfunding higher education?

Jack: New Jersey has notoriously underfunded higher education.

I have had two of my four go out of state to university and they were paying out of state the same they would pay to go to Rutgers.

That has to do a lot with the cost structure for Rutgers, but also New Jersey having over the years underfunded higher education.

David: We hear a lot, especially in times like this about the millions that have been made available to the football team, which has not done well of late.

Should there be some consideration of how much is going into support the programs, paying the coach, building new facilities?

Jack: Rutgers knew what it was getting itself into when it entered the Big Ten and knew that it would be a big expense and had to expect that criticism, especially when it comes to union negotiations and tuition increases.

It comes with the territory.

David: How would a governor Jack Ciattarelli approach this differently?

Jack: I would not have taken the hammer away from the college president.

They should have been ordered back into the classroom.

We should do a better job of underwriting and subsidizing higher education.

The budget is up $17 billion.

Unprecedented.

Chris Christie's last budget was $36 million during the most recent from Phil Murphy is $53 billion plus, unprecedented increase, and yet we have not solved any major problems, won the underfunding of higher education.

David: As we stream tonight on Thursday and we are recording this and we will see it on the weekend, do you get a sense that this is going to be a long-term work stoppage, or that this could settle before the weekend?

Jack: Let's put it this way, based on what I'm reading and hearing them as we sit here now that you don't get the sense this will be solved anytime real soon, and that is a very sad situation, and sorry for the repetitiveness but I keep thinking about the seniors within a few weeks of graduation.

David: Yeah.

There seems to be a resurgence in labor activity, not only teachers and office workers here in New Jersey and across the country, but now Starbucks workers at medieval times and even workers at weed dispensary shop snowboarding to unionize.

Are you a prolabor Republican?

You said you are prolabor, but what does that mean?

Jack: My dad was a union pipefitter for public service gas.

I am not antiunion.

Unions bring people into the middle class.

I believe in collective bargaining and I believe in what is fair.

Here is the good news on the we are at a 50-your low.

We have never seen a market this tight end Ed has caused wage escalation.

When it comes to Starbucks, Starbucks provides free college education for any and all employees so I don't know what the demands are, but I do know that employees in all sectors have experienced a lot of wage escalation, a good thing considering what we're up against with general inflation cometh so each situation is different and once it's on examination.

David: All right, let me move on to what I know used to be your favorite time of year, budget season.

You mentioned it before, $53 billion, as it stands, this is almost a rhetorical question, but does assembly man Jack Ciattarelli vote for that and is governor Jack Ciattarelli sign it?

Jack: I don't vote for it is a legislator.

As a governor, I don't submit it.

We continue to have a school funding problem.

My goodness, even the Democratic senator who chairs the education committee is calling for a new school funding formula which is something that been calling on for 10 plus years.

The governor is benefiting from the wage escalation driving income tax revenue and is benefiting from general inflation which is driving sales tax revenue.

If there ever was a time as flush as he is in cash to fix our long-standing problems, whether the funding of New Jersey transit, property taxes, and by the way to his anchor program is not a long-term fix.

It is a Band-Aid.

There are things we could be doing now that could truly fix New Jersey going off into the long-term, but we are not seeing that in the budget proposal.

All we see our increases in spending.

David: Give me one or two, a simile man, in case you decide to run for governor.

People may want to make reference.

Jack: We learned during the pandemic how antiquated our computer systems are.

You saw various systems crash, employment and the treasury, motor vehicles.

The governor of Massachusetts invested $500 million in a state-of-the-art management information system that connected all agencies.

We have treasury desktops systems working on DOS.

I know you're not old enough to know what that is, but I am.

It is embarrassing.

That is one example of an investment we could make with the increase in spending and surplus that would have in Norma's benefit to our governmental operations and make our governmental systems more user-friendly for taxpayers.

David: C:// So how do you put an end to Christmas tree items, something a lot of people complain about?

It's not like they did not exist when there was a Republican governor.

Jack: It depends on the worthiness of the program.

In a democracy, this will go on where an executive branch want something and members of the legislative branch was something else and it is part of the bargaining process.

I think what taxpayers care about the most is that it's not being wasted on frivolous and may I say stupid stuff.

David: What were the frivolous and stupid things I would ask, but that would take us in another direction and I am running out of time, so I have to ask you about 2025.

We saw Steven Fulop make his announcement.

You said you were in on election night buys time and said you are not officially in yet, but I assume that you plan on making a more formal announcement, if you do decide to run.

When would that be?

Jack: It would certainly not be before November.

Last year, the focus was the congressional races in local races across the state.

This year, my keen focus is off 120 seats in the state legislature.

I want to build on the momentum of 2021 when we picked up eight seats in the state legislature and beat the longest sitting Senate president in the country and I do not want to give back those seats.

There is an opportunity to pick up more.

There is a new map that favors Republicans.

My sole focus is on the 120 legislative seats and I hope New Jersey gives itself something it has not given itself and 25 years, Republican majorities in both houses give us an opportunity and let us show you what we can do.

David: There will not be an incumbent missa were expecting a long list of candidates from both parties including yours.

What will be driving be Republican electorate, primary time -- come primary time in the GOP assuming there are two or three candidates?

Jack: For this year's legislative races?

David: No, for the primaries in 2025.

What will be people be thinking of?

In your mind, you will have a majority in both houses, no?

Jack: David, in 2025, in 2024, and in 2023, people should be looking for mainstream candidates who focus with positive energy on solving people's kitchen table issues.

I preach that all the time.

Go out and talk about how you affix people's problems and talk about this kitchen table issues.

The mainstream majority is waiting for us.

If ever there was time for a commonsense approach, this is it.

The candidates to do that in 2023, 2024, 2025 will be successful.

David: We are hearing from some factions of your party much more conservative, ideological stringent, rhetoric, is the New Jersey GOP still a moderate party?

Jack: The New Jersey GOP is the Republican Party of New Jersey, and I think the fact that we have people all over the place on the various issues, and when I say all over the place, I on the ideological spectrum, is good.

When you look at the Democratic party, you can't find a single person that is antiabortion.

Everyone is pro-abortion.

That is the right and I respect that but when I look at the Republican Party, I see a dynamic party with people with different points of view on many different issues.

David: The GOP, I'm writing this down, pushing diversity in the party as opposed to Democrats.

Jack: Certainly diversity with regard to ethnicity.

We are the big 10 party of Abraham Lincoln but need leaders who speak to that, and that is something I have always tried to do.

David: Alright.

We have to leave it there.

Assemblyman Jack Ciattarelli, good to talk with you.

Jack: Looking forward to next time.

David: That is "ChatBox" this week.

Thank you to Attorney General Matt Plotkin for joining us.

You can follow me on twitter.

You can get fresh content every day when you subscribe to the YouTube channel.

I am David Cruise.

For the entire crew at 2 Gateway Center, we will see you next week.

>> Major funding for Chat Box with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association making public schools grade for every child.

In JM insurance group, serving the insurance needs of New Jersey residents and businesses for more than 100 years.

Promotional support is provided by insider NJ, a political intelligence network dedicated to New Jersey political news.

Insider NJ is committed to giving serious political players and interactive form for ideas for discussion, and insight, online at insider NJ.com.

♪