- Just ahead on "Black Issues Forum" from scam savvy users to digital denial, the tech world is evolving faster than some of our aging loved ones can keep up with.

In this episode, we explore how seniors are navigating tech challenges and how we can better care for them along the way by taking an honest look at aging, technology, and the overlooked corners of caregiving.

Coming up next, stay with us.

- [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ [upbeat music continues] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum".

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Imagine facing AI generated scams that sound exactly like your grandchild, or trying to access your medical portal when you've never even owned a smartphone.

For many of our aging loved ones, technology can feel more like a threat than a tool, and it goes beyond tech.

I know I'm asking myself the question, how am I truly caring for my elders in ways that go beyond the medical charts and pill schedules?

We'll talk about the health aspect later in the show, but first, we're talking tech and asking the question, how do we ensure our elders feel safe, supported, and seen in a space that's often confusing or even predatory?

To answer these questions and more, I welcome to the show, owner and founder of Triangle Tech Savvy Seniors, Shelley Brocksmith.

Welcome.

- Thank you.

- Yeah, it's good to have you here.

You know, a lot of my friends and I, we talk about almost becoming the parents to our parents, right?

- Yeah.

- And technology is one of those roadblocks or challenges that we face in helping them identify and understand how to navigate.

Share about the work that you do, and how did you get into it?

Was it because of a parent?

[laughs] - Actually, no.

So basically, my first job when I was between junior year and senior year of high school, I worked for my mother in home healthcare agency in an agency just doing special projects for her.

And so that was her career for pretty much her whole career.

I went off to college, undergrad, graduate, went to RTP, worked in all kinds of tech companies, and got laid off in 2020 during COVID.

And had kids at home and thought, "You know, I really need to do something different."

I do a lot of stuff with girl scouts and emergency management.

I really just needed to feel like I could help people and do more of that.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And I just started thinking about my strengths and what I could do.

And every person I talk to is like, "Yeah, let me tell you about my aunt, my grandma, my this, my that," you know?

And it's like everybody's got a story where they're helping somebody who is a little older and just struggling.

And I just felt like this was probably a good place for me to be.

And that's definitely flushing out.

- And I can say, your energy is perfect for it, 'cause you've just got this calm, soothing energy.

And I know, again, often this is my friend circle, we talk about the frustration that can happen around helping someone who doesn't quite understand, right?

- [Shelley] Yeah.

- That mindset is different.

I wanted to kinda set the stage here with statistics.

- Sure.

- So Pew Research Center in 2023 released a report that back in 2000 adult age 65 and older using the internet was just at 14%.

In 2023, however, 75% of our 65 and older are using the internet.

- Yeah.

- So that's a great increase, right?

We know that more people are partaking.

61% of seniors own a smartphone compared to only 18% about a decade ago.

And you know, it goes on to talk about how much more our seniors and our aging elders are using technology.

What are they using technology for?

- Everything.

I mean, you know, I sat there one day when I was preparing some documents for a presentation and I put together a word cloud.

And if you don't know what that is, it's, you know, just all the things that are associated with something.

And so I was thinking about all the places where we see tech.

And I mean, I ran outta ink on my typewriter, right?

- Oh, wow.

- I mean, it was just so many places where it's the stove and the refrigerator, and the car and the... You know, all these places.

It's everywhere.

And for you to go, "I really don't feel like, you know, being part of technology."

I mean, we're here.

I mean, you have to.

So it's really an interesting situation to be in, I think right now.

And that whole thing with more the cell phones, the smartphone being...

I mean, they're readily available.

You know, I think elder people are starting to see the value of having that, and being able to look things up quickly and, you know, the phone calls.

- So what kinds of things do you help your clients with?

Like what does an appointment with you look like?

- So I meet them where they are.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And it's whatever they need.

And it might be over here and it might be over there.

You know, some of it is ordering items off the internet.

It's kind of looking at their gear.

If they're having some problems with their computer or their smartphone.

I spend a lot of time doing updates to systems and applications.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- I do a lot of that.

- So let's talk about barriers.

So we know that's what they need.

However, a lot of times, maybe they can't afford you for long.

- Right.

- Right?

Or honestly, they may be annoyed that they have to have someone come help them.

So how do you enable providing them with the comfort level of understanding this even without someone by their side?

- Yeah, that's definitely challenging, 'cause I think they seem to value most having someone sitting there with them 'cause it increases their confidence level, I think, as opposed to trying to navigate on their own or wait for someone else in the family to come if they've haled somebody else.

And, you know, that person is super busy.

So it's a little bit challenging.

So working independently.

I know there are definitely some videos, you know, like AARP has a lot of great tech resources.

YouTube, depending on where you're...

Looking there, you can find some resources available.

So there are some things out there for sure.

But it's maybe not quite the same as having someone sit right there with you.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And tell, but yes.

- But even in that, that could be a roadblock.

I mean, I know my dad watches YouTube on the TV all the time.

- [Shelley] Yeah.

- So, and he's, you know, learned to search and find the things that he likes to watch.

One thing that I wanna bring up with that, however, I've had to remind him that everything you see is not real.

- Yeah.

- You know, he'll call me and say, "Did this really happen?"

And I'm like, "Um, I don't think so.

Let me do some research."

- Let's look, yeah.

- And so how do you help them distinguish between real and fake?

- Yeah, it's been really tough and it's getting a lot tougher with AI.

So I think that's another place where if I'm sitting there and I'm like, "Yeah."

And I think also they come from this culture where if somebody called them on the phone and they would go to that wall and they'd pick up that phone and they'd answer that phone 'cause somebody called me, right?

So that, you know, kinda coaching them through.

Just because somebody calls you or somebody hales you, that doesn't mean you have to respond.

You can let it go to voicemail and then we can check it and we can, you know, there are some things that we can do.

And fortunately, I know some of the technology coming through on the phones, you know, is helping in terms of, "This is a scam, maybe you shouldn't answer this phone.

Or this could be a spam, don't..." - That's been helpful even for me.

- Super helpful.

Right.

- Another thing that I've seen happen is, they do get caught up in a scam.

- [Shelley] Yeah.

- And there's shame associated with that.

There's embarrassment associated with that.

How do we sit down with our parents to understand where they're at and potentially try to discover if something has happened?

- So I think it's the systemic, it's the, you know, making sure that, you know, you have the right pieces in place, the updates are done, the antivirus is there, the VPN is there.

You know, putting all of those systemic things in place as much as possible, but then also, you know, trying to make sure that you've got a good relationship with that person.

So you can say, you know, they feel comfortable coming to you saying, "Hey, you know, maybe something happened here.

I don't know, I pushed the wrong button.

I told this person the wrong thing.

I think I might need some help."

You know, so that they're haling you early and not that whole child-parent thing flips, right?

And sometimes they don't want to say, "Hey, I may be vulnerable here, I may need help."

So I think, you know, reinforcing that piece of things is something you really have to work on.

It's you know?

- And even when we think about the sensitivity around bank information or personal information, you know, they were so autonomous before that sometimes, and not that they may not wanna share their financial status or anything like that, but it's hard to break that wall... - Yes.

- When we're trying to set up generational things to help transition.

- [Humeka] Right.

- Right?

And so when we think about how do we navigate around the legalities, I mean, I know you may not know too much about that, but what are some strategies to kinda start chipping away at understanding where our parents are?

- Yeah, so I think asking those questions about, you know, how comfortable they feel, and, you know, looking at their gear.

I mean, if you start looking at what's on their phone, and they're comfortable enough to show you, and you see kind of what they're doing on their phone, I think that, you know, is helpful in terms of knowing how to go after those pieces to make sure that, you know, they have the coverage and support that they need to continue moving on.

And, you know, making sure that, again, I go back all the time to the updates and I think, again, the culture was at one point, and for quite a long while, I think that, "Oh, I did an update on my computer and now my computer's hosed for three days."

- Right.

- So I think that's sometimes in their brain still that that might happen again.

And that might be how things are now.

Whereas, I don't know what your experience is, but mine is, for the most part, when I do an update, I'm back to business right away.

- Indeed.

- You know, things have gotten so much better.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- In regard to that.

So I think sometimes they will let, I mean, so many updates pile up.

And it increases the vulnerability there.

- And I think you were sharing with me earlier that you just encourage them to click.

And I know sometimes we are like, "Don't click on that."

- Yeah.

- But you just want them to get comfortable with the technology and being able to use it in the first place.

- So they're so afraid.

I mean, you turn on the news and it's just, you know, somebody got scammed out of this and the romance scams and the fake jobs, and there's so many scams out there that they're afraid to even push two buttons.

So I feel like I spend more time going, "It's a tool.

We've updated it, we're gonna be smart about how we use it."

And if you're not sure, wait till I come back next time and we'll look at it together, you know?

Or, "You know what?

Let it go.

Just delete it and move on.

It's okay."

- Yeah, so tell me or tell us about how we can get in touch with you or your service, and where people can reach you if they need to.

- So my website is triangletechsavvyseniors.com.

And then I also have an Instagram, triangletechsavvyseniors as well.

So I think that y'all picked that up.

- [Kenia] Let's just popped that.

- Yeah, so... - That's great.

Well, thank you so much.

I mean, I think even if someone couldn't utilize your services, as children, we're hearing things that can help us be a little more compassionate to our parents who are going through this transition.

- Yeah, being patient is really, you know, it's probably a lot of what I do.

Just being very patient, a kind word.

- [Kenia] Yes.

- You know, trying to help them over to the other side.

- Yeah, and it takes a special person to do that.

Thank you, Shelley Brocksmith.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

Well, beneath tech lies something even deeper.

The question of care, presence, and responsibility.

In this clip of Michelle Obama and her brother, Craig Robinson, they open up about what it meant to show up for their aging mother.

Let's listen to this powerful reflection.

- Because we were both ready and in a position to scoop her up and have her live with us.

- Oh, yeah.

- And provide her with care.

And fortunately, I got a lot of months with her because she was with me in Hawaii for this last winter.

- [Craig] Mm-hmm.

- And I got to take care of her and pamper her and have all the support she needed.

And she resisted at every turn.

[chuckles] You know, she didn't want, you know, the physical therapist, she didn't want the nurse's aid.

So I had to tell her I need them, you know?

But all of that was because she didn't wanna feel like a burden, and she didn't wanna just wither away.

She wanted to die at her prime.

And that's, you know, just to make clear, that's the kinda stuff that mom prepared us for at a very early age.

She was like, "I do not want to be here forever.

To the point where I don't have my memory, I can't move around, I can't do for myself."

She's like, "That's not my idea of living."

- [Craig] Right.

- And she didn't have that.

But I think, you know, what mom did for us when it came to managing grief from as long as I can remember, is that she and dad were never afraid to talk about death, right?

Just like every other topic in our household.

- Right.

- You know?

They parented with an openness, with a philosophy that your kids were smart and capable, and that if you phrase things the right way and did it at the level that they could understand, there really wasn't anything that you couldn't talk to your kids about in terms of just broad topics.

I mean, they weren't the kind of, we're best friends kind of parents.

It was like, "No, you're a child, but we can have conversations."

- [Craig] Right.

- And we will encourage questions about everything that included death and aging, because we did grow up with a big extended family.

We grew up with all four of our grandparents.

Our parents each had big families, lots of brothers and sisters on both sides.

We had lots of cousins.

And within any extended family, over the course of your life, people die, people get sick.

- [Craig] Right.

- People age.

- Yeah.

- That was a clip from the IMO podcast hosted by Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson.

You can find that on Apple Podcast.

But in that clip, we saw that she talked about navigating the end of life of her mother, right?

Often health is becomes a part of the responsibility, whether we're ready for it or we're not.

And from managing medications and appointments to simply making sure that someone eats or has companionship, caregiving shows up in many forms.

Joining me now to talk a little bit more about that is registered nurse with Arosa Care, Humeka Knolton, to help us explore what care really looks like and how we can show up in meaningful ways.

Welcome to the show.

- Thank you for having me.

- Of course.

When we think about caregiving, we often think about medicine, meals, and doctors, transportation.

Is that just it, or is there more to caregiving than that?

- Well, I think those things are important, but I think one of the things that we leave out is the interactions.

Finding out what things they used to do and maybe making sure that they can continue to do those things on maybe a smaller scale.

But engagement is really important for quality of life.

You know, getting them.

- When you say engagement, what does that look like?

- I mean, like doing the things that they enjoy doing, interacting with other people, going places that they used to go, you know, lunch with friends, bridge club, you know, things like that.

Things that like their life doesn't stop because they're getting older.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And that helps with quality of life and aging gracefully.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- You know?

- That's a hard reality.

I remember when they told my grandfather he had to stop driving.

Yeah, you hear that story often.

Taking away that driving privilege is a huge hit.

- It is.

- And so, same here.

I want to establish some statistics, 'cause there's been a lot of change over these years.

And when we look at how many people are having to stay home to care for parents, maybe even quit a job to be that in home care provider.

Over 53 million Americans provide unpaid care to an aging family member or friend.

53 million.

This was from the AARP.

This was in 2020.

61% of caregivers for older adults are women.

And the average caregiver is 49 years or older.

And then the average duration of caregiving is over four years with many providing care for 10 plus years.

- Yes.

- That is a lot.

- That is a lot.

The advances in medicine are awesome, but it leads us with people who are living longer.

- [Kenia] Yes.

- And we're in the sandwich generation.

By the time we hit our 40s, we have adult children, we have children maybe still at home, and our parents are aging.

So you see a lot of choices having to be made about priorities and looking out best for mom and still being able to do the things that you need to do for your home base.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- Yeah.

- And you know, we look at facilities, senior living facilities.

You know, it goes both ways.

Some people are like, "I don't wanna be put in that home.

I don't wanna be there."

Some people would like to.

But even if we would like to, not everyone can afford it.

- Right.

- It's become a very expensive option and almost not an option for a lot of folks.

How do we navigate that if we are not able?

What options do we have to prepare for that?

- I think one of the things that I like to tell people is to do your research.

Now, staying home with mom or having mom stay home with you may be an option for you, but it's not an option for everyone to quit their full-time job.

There's not a lot of generational wealth in our community.

So doing your research, like, just because a place is beautiful, it doesn't mean that that's the place for mom and dad.

Maybe they don't need all of that, you know?

Go take tours, talk to people, speak to a neighbor who has a mom there.

You know, some of the places that you may think are the best, you know, you just don't need the best.

I mean, you know, it's not always... - We also wanna make sure they're safe and actually careful.

- Absolutely.

- You hear horror stories about that.

- Sure, sure.

And that goes to, even if they aren't home with you, being present.

- [Kenia] Yes.

- Like I always say, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right?

If I know my daughter, if I know your daughter or son is going to come and see about you, then I'm gonna make sure I'm taking good care of you when they come, you know?

And that of course, apply to someone who can't express how they're being taken care of.

Now if mom says there's a problem here, then listen to mom because she's there, she's living it, you know, while you're at work or at home, you know, so just take that in account.

- Yeah.

You know, one thing I've noticed is a challenge, and it could just stem way back from just African Proverbs of taking care of family of our elders.

But in the Black community, we feel that sense of obligation or responsibility.

- [Humeka] Right.

- How do we navigate that respect, right, for our old elders cultural obligation, but still being present for ourselves?

- Right.

I think I always talk about, it's hard to take care of someone when you can't take care of yourself.

Like take care of yourself first so you can be a caregiver, but appreciate their experiences.

Like there are things that they've been through... - [Kenia] Yeah.

- That are valid.

If you are being the caregiver or if you're bringing in a caregiver from outside of the home, you know, appreciating the things that they've been through.

Getting to know them, like having conversations with them about their past or when they were younger.

Like what type of things they like to do.

You know, just getting to know them so they will feel more comfortable because they have valid concerns.

- Yeah.

- And they've been through things that make them a little weary of you and what you're bringing to say, you know, what you're trying to do.

- Even though they raised you, right?

- Right.

Even when they raised you.

Absolutely, yeah.

- One instance where it can become a, you know what, we have to make a decision is when it comes to safety and independence.

- Right.

- Often we see our elders living in that same home and perhaps a spouse has passed.

And now we are at a crux of, well, is it safe?

How do we establish the safetiness for them?

- I think one of the things that you need to do is present it like, me, keeping you safe is a help and not a hindrance.

You wanna stay in place.

You want it as much as possible, we want them to age in place.

We want them to keep their home.

One slip and fall could make a big difference.

And whether you're able to stay here.

- Yeah.

- So bringing in a caregiver or allowing us to have someone come and help you out will actually help you remain independent.

Like you wanna remain independent.

And then of course, if something happens and there's something that happens and there's a safety issue, then maybe we start looking at downsizing, or looking at some, because this is more house than you need or it's not accessible as it needs to be for the things that you need now.

And then that's a conversation, you know?

- Yeah.

- Taking some of the, "Okay, you love it here, let's take some of the things you love and move them to something that works better for you."

- And you know, and that is a great solution.

But realistically, for some, especially in the market that we're in, it may not be an option.

- It may not.

- And earlier we talked about, it may be a little too late for our parents to set up insurance plans and other plans to help, but for us and and for our kids, you know, setting up long-term plans, what does that look like?

- Well, you can speak to, there are a lot of long-term care companies.

Some of our health insurance companies actually have long-term care that is attached that we can look into, to see if the healthcare that we are paying for all the time and already may have some type of venue that they can help us with to get some long-term care insurance.

But then if it gets to a point where we have to start asking family members or siblings, like, let's put our heads together because mom really needs this or dad really needs this.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And maybe, I mean, you have to come together and bring your resources together to get something set up for mom or dad.

Now for us, yeah, let's look at what we can do now to help out our children to make it less stressful for them when we start to get older.

- [Kenia] Yes.

- Now that while we're able bodied and able to do things for ourself, let's set them up for success where they're not going through what we may be going through.

- Communicating.

- Yes, absolutely, communicating that.

- Making it a family thing.

- Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

And sometimes people don't know what you need until you ask.

So, you know, ask and see.

And they were like, "Hey, I've been thinking about that too."

You know, you never know, you know?

- You never know.

- You never know.

- Humeka Knolton, thank you so much.

We appreciate your insights.

- Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

- Of course.

And I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ [upbeat music continues] ♪ [upbeat music continues] ♪ - [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.