(gentle music) - A special grand jury on Monday will begin hearing evidence in the police shooting death of Jayland Walker to decide whether any of the eight officers involved should face charges.

Tougher voter identification restrictions go into effect as early voting begins For the May primary.

Key contests include the mayor's races in Akron and Canton, and police can now pull you over for using your cell phone behind the wheel, though the new distracted driving law has many exceptions, "Ideas" is next.

(exciting music) Hello and welcome to "Ideas."

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

Monday, a special grand jury will be seated to consider the case against eight Akron police officers involved in the shooting death of Jayland Walker last June.

The special grand jury will decide what, if any, charges officers will face.

The city has been preparing by trying to educate residents about how grand juries work and by boarding up public buildings.

One of the seven candidates for Akron Mayor says preemptively boarding up the buildings in anticipation of possible protests is a bad look.

Council Member Tara Mosley and the other Democrats running for Mayor debated this week, as did those running for Canton mayor.

Let's talk about the impact of some new laws in Ohio.

One makes it easier for law enforcement to pull you over for being distracted by your cell phone while driving.

The other hardens identification requirements for voters, beginning with the May primary.

Early voting for that election is already underway.

We'll talk about those stories and the rest of the week's news on the Reporter's Roundtable.

Joining me this week from Idea Stream Public Media, Deputy Editor for News Andrew Meyer, from the Buckeye Flame Editor Ken Schneck, and Ohio Public Radio State House News Bureau Chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

A special grand jury will be seated Monday in Akron to consider whether eight Akron police officers involved in the shooting death of Jayland Walker last June should face any charges.

The state's Bureau of Criminal investigation investigated the shooting, and the Attorney General's office will present findings to the special grand jury.

Andrew, how and when will members of this special grand jury be chosen?

I know it starts Monday, but who is on the grand jury?

- Well, Monday's the big day and the first order of business is going to be empaneling that grand jury.

There'll be nine regular members of that, and potentially three to five alternates.

And really one of the interesting nuances, and there's so many to this, is that it's not just Akron residents, but they will be selecting from a pool from throughout Summit County.

So there are concerns that there is the diversity and the attention that is appropriate for this killing that took place in Akron.

- And we don't see what happens in a grand jury proceeding.

One of the things the city's been doing is trying to describe to residents how a grand jury is not a jury.

How this is just a decision on whether or not there should be charges.

It doesn't have to be unanimous, but also the fact that it's secret.

- Behind closed doors, no cameras.

In fact, it is not unheard of, but it is very rare where the proceedings of a grand jury are then afterwards released to the public.

So we are not really going to know what's going on behind those closed doors.

And of course that's leading to a lot of concern, and a lot of speculation about what's happening.

A lot of rumors already buzzing about about whether or not there's a fix-in, or if this is really going to be a true and sincere process that's going to come up with some real results.

- I think the real concerns are whether there'll be protest and the protest would come if there are not charges.

- Exactly.

- That's essentially what we're looking at.

- Exactly.

And as you mentioned, it could be a week before we know whether or not there will be a true bill from this or a no bill, which is basically the parlance of will they indict one, some or all eight officers, or if they'll choose not to indict any of them.

We just don't know that at this point.

- Can I mentioned the council member, Tara Mosley, who's a candidate for mayor, took issue with the boarding up of buildings, which has started now weeks, it had started at least a week before the grand jury was even empaneled.

There's gonna be at least a week of presenting evidence and then whatever time of deliberation, time for the city to get ready.

But what message does it send, she's saying, when you're getting ready by boarding up windows, saying, you know, we think there's gonna be unrest.

- Yeah, she had a pretty notable quote.

She said they that these boarded up windows are "visible wounds of a broken trust between the city and its people."

And I certainly saw that quote, heard that quote and that stopped me in my tracks.

The optics of it are pretty apparent for anyone to see that this is almost an inevitable outcome in the way that the city is approaching this.

So I actually was reading some pretty fascinating Twitter threads of whether these boarded up windows should also maybe have some information on 'em, educating people about this process and not just, again, as Councilwoman said, a visible wound that everyone can see there in Akron.

- I made a point of driving around downtown and taking a look to try and see just what preparations were already in place, and as of Wednesday there were windows boarded up on the municipal building, but they're on the side of the building.

So as you drive by the front of it on the High Street, you don't see that and you really have to circle around to notice it.

I think the city may have overstepped in terms of doing this sooner than they should have, but in terms of this becoming a bunker mentality fortification, I think we need to keep this in perspective.

- There also is some talk about maybe there being a protest zone that would be cordoned off by the authorities.

- In fact, the city has been very proactive in trying to disseminate information about the grand jury process, about what to expect once their findings are released.

And they have updated a website that they have, akronupdates.com, where you can get information about this.

The zone that you're talking about, Mike, is a section of South High Street that basically runs throughout the center of the city where all the justice takes place, the courts and the police station, the police headquarters.

- As you were saying earlier, Mike, there's a lot of uncertainty because there's a lack of education about grand juries, though again, I was reading some fascinating articles this morning that, as a country, we now know more about grand juries after this past week and former President Trump.

So that has increased at least people's knowledge of what a grand jury is and how that differs from say, a court trial.

What do you think it does though to people who are suspect of the process, who say clearly they're not going to charge white police officers in the shooting death of a black man, and so that might be just a prevailing opinion.

Watch.

We'll see.

And then when you start doing these preparations saying, we're preparing for protests, why would you prepare for protests?

Only because there won't be indictments.

So it again perpetuates that feeling that while you're trying to tell me what a grand jury does, what you're really telling me is this is a fait accompli.

- That's the optics, right?

That's the fear.

And especially when we're in this process right now of trying to identify people to be on the grand jury, and it can also be people who are driving through downtown Akron as well.

How does this taint the jury pool?

How does this convey to the public that here's the outcome, here's what's coming.

Here's the zone where you can protest when this inevitable thing happens, when in fact, well, that's not how the judicial process works.

(exciting music) - Jayland Walker's case and police reform and oversight were discussed at length by the seven candidates for Akron Mayor in a debate Wednesday.

The candidates gathered at Quaker Station for a wide ranging debate put on by Idea Stream Public Media, the Akron Beacon Journal, the Akron Press Club, and the Ohio Debate Commission.

Andrew, the handling of the Jayland Walker shooting was a major topic in this debate, and there was a variety of responses?

- There was, everything from, if you're hearing from Deputy mayor Marco Sommerville saying, look, so many other cities have been through horrific situations where there have been police-involved shootings of innocent black men, and the Justice Department has had to come in.

He pointed to the state auditor, not the state auditor, the city auditor, that was created 20 years ago as being effective in helping to steer the investigation.

You have others, like Councilman Shammas Malik, who pointed to Issue 10 being put into place as a result of this, and so there's a range of reactions to this, but uniformly across all seven saying that there's a need for justice for what happened here.

- The long range impact of Walker's death will also be in the form of the Civilian Police Oversight Board.

You mentioned that issue that was passed.

That also wasn't something that there was lockstep unanimity on.

- No.

You know, again, coming back to the deputy mayor, Marco Sommerville, he said, "Well, we've got it, we've got issue 10, we've got the board, we're gonna make..." He basically said we're gonna make the best of a bad situation.

He feels that the language hamstrings the city in its effectiveness to properly carry out investigations.

Meanwhile, you had others who were critical about how issue 10 was structured in its language, again, going back to Councilman Shammas Malik who said, "Look, we worked long and hard on the nuances, on the details of Issue 10.

It had to conform with city ordinances and with the contract with the police."

So it had to be done in a way that was thoughtful and could be effectively carried out.

- One of the things that struck me at the debate, and I was there as well as you, as we were helping with production, was how many times these candidates have come together to share their thoughts.

There have been forum after forum after forum in Akron, and this was a full-scale, 90-minute debate, another one planned on Wednesday the 12th at seven o'clock in the library there.

But it seems as though the process for Akron voters has been, you've got a lot of information.

- And this is, I think to the credit of the city of Akron and the seven candidates who are running, the fact that they are open to participating in these discussions, the number one goal really has to be to make sure that the people are gonna be making a choice on May 2nd, the primary, are going to have the information they need to make an informed choice.

- How do we coin that phrase, you know, "So goes Akron, so goes Ohio," or something.

How do we model that this is the norm, that voters get as many opportunities as possible to hear from these candidates who do have, even though they're all from the same party, they do have differing points of view on a variety of issues.

- And are willing to get together and talk civilly.

- And are willing to get together and talk civilly.

(laughs) - Yeah, that was not an issue.

Michael Shearer, who is the editor of the Akron Beacon Journal, was a moderator, and I know in our preparations we talked about, you know, if someone gets out of line, we've gotta step in.

And he's like, yep, I've got it.

Never once did that ever have to happen.

People were civil in that.

By the way, on Wednesday's debate, the upcoming debate, next week, citizens will ask the questions.

We've opened up a portal and said, "Hey, tell us what you want to ask."

And I have to tell you, I am totally impressed by the quality of these questions, the depth of them, what people want to know.

And it's everything from the walkability of the city to environmental concerns, to Jayland Walker, to development.

I mean, everything that you would want to know about your city and whether someone can lead it.

Even things like what have you done for us in the past, and what are your integrity, what is your integrity and what are your leadership qualities?

- Yeah, yeah.

- Shameless, shameless plug, if you have a question that you want to get into the mix, there's still time.

You can go to the Ohio Debate Commission website and you can enter your question there.

- And it's connected to voter turnout.

If you have an informed populous, they are going to be more inclined to show up at the polls.

And we know that turnout for local elections is not always great, and so that Akron is providing all these different opportunities is just wonderful to boost the informed citizenry there in that area.

(exciting music) - Akron isn't the only upcoming mayoral primary with a crowded field of Democrats.

Five are running for Canton Mayor, and they too debated this week.

Andrew, like Akron, this is the first non-incumbent mayoral contest in eight years for Canton Voters.

- There's an interesting sort of parody between Canton and Akron growing on this year.

Tom Bernabei, who served two years as mayor, came in the same time as Dan Horrigan, as Akron Mayor, has decided not to seek reelection.

So it's kind of a wide open race the same way it is in Akron.

The five Democrats who are running, three of them are either on council or were on council.

You've got an interesting dynamic going on there with some experienced government officials there who are competing, Bill Smuckler, William Shearer and Thomas West, also the former state representative who are competing along with Kimberly Bell, who's a former paralegal, and Willis Gordon, who's a veterans affair chairman for the Ohio NAACP.

They, you know, touched on a lot of things on their debate this week.

Crime, poverty and job prospects all seem to be in line.

There are certain differences in how they would approach each of those matters, but unlike Akron with the May 2nd primary, they will face a general election challenge, and that is from the one Republican who's in the race, Roy Scott Depew.

- And in general, are the topics essentially the same?

I mean the Jayland Walker thing obviously is dominating a lot of the conversation in Akron.

So we talk a lot about police reform and about safety, but when we look at the wide variety of things that are important to Akron or to Cantonites, is it the same?

- It's similar but not the same.

Poverty is a big driver for Canton, and the candidates all have different ideas on how they're going to approach finding solutions for that.

There was a similar criminal justice issued to Akron where you had a police-involved shooting, where a Canton police officer shot through a fence at a man in his backyard, who was firing a gun on a New Year's Day just to celebrate.

In the end, grand jury came back with no indictment against that.

Things have remained calmed in Canton, but there are similar issues concerning friction between the police and the community.

(exciting music) - Early voting for the May primary began this week.

The registration deadline to vote in this election was April 3rd.

It's the first election that will involve changes passed by the legislature, including requiring a photo ID to vote in-person, which Secretary of State, Frank LaRose says, Karen, most people do anyway, they bring a photo ID.

But what they're basically saying is, if you show up and you have a utility bill or something like that, which used to allow you to vote, you're not gonna be able to do it anymore based on this new law.

- Right, and again, voter ID, voters have always had to show photo ID, or voters have always had to show ID in Ohio.

So the idea that this is brand new, that voters actually have to prove who they are, that's not new.

They always have had to do that.

It's the photo ID component here, so you can bring a driver's license, state ID, US passport, passport card, military ID, or something from the Bureau of Motor Vehicles.

If you don't have one of those things, this law provides for a free state ID for anybody over 17, but of course that's not something that you can get immediately.

I think it has to be mailed to you.

You can of course prove that with the BMV certificate there, but if you don't have these things and you still wanna vote, you can cast a provisional ballot.

But one of the things that this law also does is it shortens the period during which, after you cast the provisional ballot, you have to go back to the Board of Elections and prove you are who you say you are.

You only have four days to do that now, down from seven days.

So that makes a big difference if you do indeed cast a provisional ballot or you're told you have to cast a provisional ballot.

- So if you just look at this and it says "A photo ID is required to vote," and you say, okay, that sounds reasonable, because I don't want to go in and say I'm Karen Kasler and get to vote for her.

On the other hand, the people that are opposed to this say there's a lot of disenfranchisement that's going to happen because, what?

- Well, I mean the, there are still people who don't have driver's licenses.

There are people who don't have them.

They have expired licenses, or here's an interesting thing, county-issued veteran's IDs cannot be used.

Student IDs, which haven't been used, I don't think before, cannot be used.

So while it's photo ID, it has to be the photo ID that I just listed, and not necessarily some of these other photo IDs.

And so there's a real concern that there could be potentially millions of people who don't have photo IDs in terms of driver's licenses, because there are people who are not licensed drivers and who are older, who've let their driver's licenses lapse, that kind of thing.

I don't think we really know how many people.

I don't wanna say millions, that's probably not right, but I don't know if we- - Many.

- Yeah, many, potentially, who don't have the photo ID that they need to vote.

- And we're talking about this now, but that doesn't mean that everybody is hearing this now, and they're gonna be a lot of people who show up at the polls on election day, and they're gonna run into this and they're going to be dissuaded from voting by, well I have to vote provisionally, or then I have four days to prove I am who I say I am.

It leads to further disenfranchisement, potentially.

- And then there's college students, right?

And so there's a lot of confusion here, because when students then get this id, it will automatically invalidate the ID from their home state, which was not the case earlier.

It had always been the case that college students occupy this space of dual residency, because they're living on the college campus and then they might have their home state.

So there's going to be a lot of confusion about where college students, we have a hard enough time getting college students to vote.

We have a hard enough time getting everyone to vote, but certainly getting college students I into the mix and to then get them invested in the state that they might not even be feeling that invested, that's gonna be an additional challenge for college campuses.

- Karen, this law is taking effect I think today.

- Yes.

- The reason for it is more security, secure elections, in a state where the Secretary of State has said we have incredibly secure elections and very little fraud.

- And the former Secretary of State, who is now Lieutenant Governor John Houston, was actually against voter photo ID when he was Secretary of State.

So this is a move that some Republicans have taken that they didn't necessarily agree with that before.

This idea that somehow there is massive voter fraud.

There isn't.

These elections that Ohio has been running have been secure elections.

Even in 2020, Frank LaRose who is behind, he's pushing this and is completely fine with this, said 2020 was a very safe and secure election, probably the one of the most safe and secure elections that Ohio's ever had, if not the most.

- I think they're saying this makes it even more secure.

- Right, and I mean it was already secure.

I mean the voter fraud numbers are so minuscule.

Of course you have people who say any voter fraud is bad, which sure, but you are potentially affecting a large number, a much, much larger number of people here with this law then really could be potentially fraudulently voting.

- Robert sends an email saying, "You also have people who are homeless that may not have photo ID."

That's true, and while the state is offering a free state ID card, that then involves the process, the bureaucracy.

We've learned in trying to help homeless people in Cleveland, just getting them to register for benefits or other types of things.

It's a very difficult process.

Getting an ID might be as well.

- And it can be expensive, too, if you don't have your driver's, or if you don't have your birth certificate, you don't have your social security card, you have to get those things.

Getting a birth certificate can often cost money.

It takes time of, course.

And then getting to the BMV office where you get your picture taken and everything, you have to get there.

If you don't have reliable transportation or you don't have a car or whatever, you have to do that.

All of these things take time, they take money, and some people don't have easy access to those things.

- I don't know if we said passports.

Nancy, though, says she thinks we did, "Passports cannot be used as photo IDs 'cause they do not have an address on them," she says.

- Well, that's my understanding is that they can be used, but I'll look into that.

- Okay, all right, so we will.

So we did say that and we'll look into it.

Thank you Nancy, for that spark.

And lastly, Karen- - Well, and by the way, the ID does not have to have your current address on it.

- Okay, there you go, Nancy.

- So that's why a passport can be used.

- So you can use it.

All right, good.

We've solved that one.

(Ken laughs) Karen, there are many changes taking effect today.

Another will impact how long of a grace period there is for mail-in ballots to make it to the Board of Elections.

What's the concern that opponents of this legislation have about that grace period being shortened?

- Well, it's the overseas voters, the military voters, the people who are sending their ballots over long distances, and there's a real concern here that if they don't get those back in time, then their votes won't be counted, and you know, for a lot of people, the concern about the US mail service was resolved by secure ballot drop boxes.

And the idea being that, hey, maybe we could have more secure ballot drop boxes.

That was something that was litigated, and gone around and around in terms of discussion.

This law clarifies there is one single secure ballot dropbox per county at the Board of Elections, and I believe it limits the number of days that that ballot dropbox can be used.

(exciting music) - A new law is now in effect statewide that makes distracted driving a primary offense, meaning police can stop you if they suspect you of illegally using your cell phone while driving.

The law has enthusiastic backing from Governor Mike DeWine, who says it'll save lives.

How State Highway Patrol says distracted driving has led to more than 60,000 crashes, 20,000 deaths in the last five years.

Andrew, I yell every time I see someone texting on their phone as they drive along, but realizing police couldn't just pull you over for that before because it was a secondary offense.

Now, if they see you checking out your phone, they can light you up.

- You know, the basic question I have is what took so long?

So many other states have already moved in the past to make talking on your cell phone, holding it a primary offense.

I mean, I came here from New Jersey in 2014, New Jersey took the action 20 years ago.

What was the delay?

- You can still talk on your phone, Karen, you can't be, I guess, engaged with it, if you have the hands free or even if it's up to your ear, but you're not dialing it while you're driving.

- Right.

There are some exceptions, if you're calling 9-1-1, you know, things like that.

You can do some basic navigation kinds of things.

But part of the question about this is the enforcement issue, and that's where the idea of what took so long has come from, is how do you go ahead and enforce this?

Because what does it look like to engage with your phone if you're just trying to swipe and put it down or whatever?

I mean, we all know, we see people driving around with their heads down looking at their phones.

- Yes.

- But, (laughs) you know, right, I think Governor Mike DeWine was really pushed toward this by some stories of people, but more than 200 people have died in the last five years in Ohio, at least the thought is because of related to texting and interacting with electronic devices.

And DeWine was really, I think, swayed by those stories.

It's a six-month period where there's a campaign, a PSA campaign to try to educate people that this is now the law.

There's signs going up saying this is now the law, but six months from now is when the fines will actually start.

So right now cops can pull you over and tell you, hey, don't do that.

And you know, you have six months to stop doing that.

- The fines and the points.

- Yes.

- And that's gonna hit your insurance.

- [Karen] Absolutely.

- That's the double whammy there.

- Do you think you're gonna get PSA by me?

- I'm sorry, public service announcement.

(group laughs) - Thank you.

- Excuse me, yes.

- Please.

- Oh wow.

Are we doing a pool to see who will be the first Ohio legislator who gets pulled over for this?

Because I think we should start that poll right now.

- You might recall during the pandemic, one Ohio legislator, Republican Senator Andy Brenner- - (laughs) So funny.

- Was actually doing a Zoom call while driving, so.

(laughs) - You could see the seatbelt on him, but it looked like he was in an office based on the background that he had, and you can see him sort of doing all the driving motions, and it was a meeting of people to talk about traffic safety, I think, right?

- Wow.

- Wasn't there some connection, or that was the committee?

- We should also say, in all seriousness, there's a lot of research out there that police do pull people over disproportionately if they are drivers of color, and so one of the big questions moving forward is how this will be enforced, and so the hope is that there will be quite a bit of research in how this law is applied.

- And I've heard some claims that this law really is unenforceable.

- Yeah.

- And it's the idea of telling people, hey, don't do this because it could happen.

But the enforcement part is less important to some of the folks behind this as the idea of it could happen, so don't do it, and stop creating these situations.

- To Ken's point though, if you wanted to find a prepense, a reason to pull somebody over, you know, it's the broken taillight, it's whatever.

Now, maybe it's race-related, maybe it's just 'cause no one likes Mike McIntyre, and they pull me over every time I drive, but there would be a reason because they'd say, well, we saw a phone in your hand, and so we suspect that that's a case.

So to your point, the people that are concerned about this, regarding the disproportionate stopping of African American drivers, are saying this might be just another entree to do that.

- It's gonna have to keep a really close eye on how this is enforced, if it is indeed enforceable.

- And law enforcement has said, we're not gonna cite people unless we have a real belief that something was going on, that the electronic device was being used.

But yeah, I mean, you do have to look at what the enforcement will finally be like.

(exciting music) - Monday on "The Sound of Ideas" on WKSU, we'll talk about the new crew of astronauts just announced that'll be the first in the Artemis Project, and a mission to return to the Moon.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you so much for watching, and stay safe.

(gentle music) (bright music)