(upbeat music) - The Summit County medical examiner has issued a report on the autopsy of Jayland Walker shot dead by Akron police, June 27th.

He was shot 46 times.

Attorney general, Dave Yost faces backlash for his doubts about the story of a 10 year old Ohio girl who was raped and traveled to Indiana for an abortion.

And Ohio lawmakers move forward on banning abortion with a Personhood Bill that declares life begins at conception, "Ideas" is next.

(suspenseful music) Hello, and welcome to Ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre, thanks for joining us.

A curfew remained in effect overnight Thursday into Friday in Akron.

Following the June 27th shooting death by police of Jayland Walker.

The Summit County coroner has released Walker's autopsy report and police say they've gotten death threats.

Ohio attorney general, Dave Yost faces backlash after he raised doubts about the story of a 10 year old Ohio girl taken to Indiana for an abortion, it did happen.

A man was charged with rape in Franklin county.

The so-called Heartbeat Bill may be just a start.

The legislature will now consider a Personhood Bill declaring that life begins at conception and the curator of the "Rock Hall" faces charges for trying to sell original lyrics from The Eagles.

We'll talk about those stories and the rest of the week's news on the reporter's round table.

Joining me this week from Idea Stream Public Media, managing producer for health, Marlene Harris-Taylor.

WKSU news director, Andrew Meyer and Ohio Public Radio Statehouse News Bureau, chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to round table.

Akron mayor Dan Horrigan says an overnight curfew will remain in place for now as the weekend approaches, but Horrigan and police chief, Steve Mylet say they're monitoring the need for the curfew, which was implemented after protests following the police shooting death of Jayland Walker.

All right, Andrew protestors have asked the city to drop this curfew, but officials there say it remains in effect for now.

They're reviewing it daily, what's the equation here?

What are they looking at?

- Well, they're making sure that everything stays calm, that stays peaceful.

We've had a bit of a lull during the week, this week, earlier in the week in advance of the funeral.

The family asked for 48 hours for a pause in the protest.

And we're well beyond that 48 hours at this point, but it seems like everybody is taking a moment to reflect, to think.

And I guess we're going to see what happens next come this weekend, the next chance for people really to get out beyond the traditional work week, the curfew at this point remains in effect, it's 11 until six.

The mayor has pulled back on the curfew to allow little more mobility and acknowledgement that the protests have remained peaceful.

And he's basically saying that they're taking on a day by day basis, evaluating the need for that.

So I think we'll learn a lot this week and about whether or not that curfew's gonna be with us for a while longer or whether it may sunset.

- He hasn't released the names.

The city hasn't released the names of the eight officers involved in the shooting, but said, officers could take their name tags off to protect themselves.

So does that mean the names are out and people might see the name of an officer and target that person?

- The names are not out.

The issue is according to the mayor and the chief that some officers have been incorrectly identified as being among the eight, one officer's name was been circulated out there, I guess on social media as being among the eight, the chief says that's not correct.

Another officer has been incorrectly identified as punching a protestor in a video, which again, the chief says is incorrect.

So at this point, the names are not out there.

The only thing that we do know at this point, according to other media reports, the chief has identified that some of the seven of the officers were white.

One was black.

- Marlene, Wednesday, Jayland Walker was laid to rest.

We had coverage here at Ideas Stream.

Basically everybody was on that story.

The message of reclaiming the narrative of his life.

The family has complained that the city has vilified him and has complained about some of the media coverage, because, well, I suppose they'd explain why, but the idea was reclaiming his life.

- Yeah, the family especially took issue with some of the video that was released.

And the fact that the video was released showing him with a ski mask on his face and I watched the video and it, there was like a freeze frame at that point.

- [Mike] As he's exiting the car.

- As he's exiting the car, so it was really clear.

You could see he had on the ski mask and I admit it did take me aback.

I was like, wow, ski mask.

Why was he wearing a ski mask?

So that's what the family's complaining about.

That the seeds of doubt about what he was up to, what was going on, was he really a victim of this shooting or did he play a big part in this?

We don't know the answers to these questions and that's the problem.

The family is saying don't vilify him until the entire, let's hear the whole story let's find out what's going on.

- And those accusations actually have been pointed at the city, not necessarily at the media, they're saying stop vilifying Jayland.

And I guess to the credit of the mayor and the chief that they have said that was not our attention.

- Right.

- And they apologize.

- And they did apologize, but you know, it's sort of like one stuff is out there.

- It's out there.

- And to the earlier discussion about whether or not they're going to release the names of the police officers, we all know that in the absence of information, when you have a vacuum, people are gonna fill it up.

So social media's gonna fill it up.

People are gonna speculate.

They're gonna say, it's this officer or that officer until the city comes out with the correct information.

I realize it's a tough balancing act because they do wanna protect the police officers who are out there.

So how you find that right amount of releasing information.

But at the same time, protecting officers is really hard.

- Without vilifying anyone though, Andrew isn't all the detail important?

For example, the police say a gun was fired or shot was fired from the car.

Didn't say it was fired at them, but that's something that they said that he had a ski mask on, that he ran from police.

All of that is factual.

Also factual is the fact that he was shot by eight police officers.

We think at least eight were there and was unarmed at that time.

Another fact that's important to put out.

So this idea of vilifying him by giving all of the details, I wonder how that jives in terms of how coverage goes.

- I think it comes down to perception and the accusations, that the family put out there that why are you showing him first and foremost, wearing a ski mask?

Which if you go back and review the video online from the release of the body cam video, before they even show the video, one of the first images they show of Jayland is him in a ski mask.

- In a ski mask.

Yeah and also there's this media bias.

We all have a bias that when the police give us information, we just assume that it's correct.

I'm not saying it isn't in the majority of the cases, but one thing we're finding out in Uvalde, Texas, for example, the police story can change as more information is coming out.

So I'm not saying that that's going to be the case in Akron, but I think people are saying we've been given some factual information, but do we know that's all the facts?

And I think that's what people are questioning.

- Hmm, when you talk about getting all the facts, one of the things we don't know is what it looked like from the police cruiser, because there wasn't a dash cam.

- Well, yeah.

I mean, here's the story.

Every officer in Akron, they have body cams, but they essentially retired the dash cams about seven years ago because essentially they were glorified VCRs.

It was outdated technology.

And the mayor said they really wasn't functional.

So they haven't had that bit of technology to help provide in this case, some potentially critical evidence as investigators look into what happened now.

- City council, yeah.

- This is one of the things that they're gonna take up Monday.

Councilwoman Tara Mosley has said that this is going to be on the agenda for Monday's council meeting.

I expect it's gonna be a very busy council meeting.

Another thing they're undoubtedly going to revisit is the need for, and address the calls for a civilian complaint review board.

- And there are still questions out there.

One of the big questions that I have is if he had a gun in the car and he had it at his disposal, why did he get out of the car without the gun?

If his intention was to hurt the police, why did he leave the weapon in the car?

And that's a puzzle.

I don't know if we'll ever know the answer to that, but there are questions still out there.

- The medical examiner in Summit county was releasing information this morning and has our Nick Castell is covering that for us right now.

The medical examiner says Jayland Walker had 46 gunshot wounds and or grazes by bullets, negative toxicology for drugs or alcohol.

So there was not drugs or alcohol in his system, the wounds, I don't know if you need to know all those details, but the wounds were essentially, and it appears every part of his body from torso to arms, to face and head.

So that's the information that we have to share now on that.

And we will, if Nick Castell has more, we'll share that with you as well.

We promised that at the beginning of the show, any reaction to that, Andrew, as you've been following this case so closely?

- Well the number 40 something is less than 60, but it's still.

- [Mike] 46.

- 46 wounds, I mean, where's the proportionate response there?

- And remember this started as a traffic stop.

- [Andrew] Yeah.

- I mean, I don't think we still don't know the nature of the traffic stop.

- We don't.

- They haven't released.

- That that information has not been released.

- Some other information they haven't released.

So we don't know where they stopping him because he ran a red light, I mean, we don't know.

And so for this to escalate to this point where so many police officers are firing at him, I know that they say that he shot out of his car.

That's another thing that's being investigated.

If he actually shot at police out of his car, which I could understand would create alarm bells for them, but still.

(suspenseful music) - Attorney general, Dave Yost faces backlash for the doubts he raised about the rape of a 10 year old Ohio girl who was taken to Indiana for an abortion.

This week, police verified the story and a man was charged with rape.

Karen, Dave Yost has now said his stance in the case is that it he's pivoted his stance on the case, but some of the critics say he owes more than that, including an apology.

- This story is just an avalanche of terrible things.

I mean, starting from the initial report of a 10 year old girl raped, then getting pregnant, having to go to another state for an abortion.

Because apparently there wasn't a doctor in Ohio who wanted to take this on.

Dave Yost said that she could have gotten an abortion in Ohio, but apparently the law is vague enough where no doctor wanted to risk the prison time and the loss of a medical license to do this.

And would instead suggested that the little girl and her family go to Indiana where abortion is still legal, though, that's expected to change fairly shortly.

Then all these questions about the reporting of the story.

This was a well respected newspaper to long time journalist using a quote from a doctor on the record.

This doctor gave her name, this wasn't an anonymous source.

And for somebody like Dave Yost, a former journalist to question this is really interesting to note.

Now he, and some of the other folks who have questioned this in the past, including Republican and Congressman Jim Jordan, and some other entities are now pivoting.

One of the pivots is to note that the individual who's been charged is apparently undocumented.

The other pivot that Dave Yost has been doing is saying, hey, Ohio's law, would've allowed this little girl to have had an abortion here.

But again, the law is apparently vague enough that no doctor apparently wanted to try to do it here in Ohio and preferred to send this little girl on to Indiana where she could get the care that she needed.

- Right, the argument is the abortion could have been provided here because it had to do with the health of the 10 year old.

And therefore it would've been some sort of loophole, but again, doctors.

- [Karen] Yeah.

- Would have to prove that and apparently weren't, that's the case is that they had, she moving out of state was the easiest thing to do.

- Yeah, the penalties in the law are pretty clear, but the actual exception just says medical emergency.

I mean, it's the doctor would've had to testify to this in writing.

And again, risking a medical license, risking prison time.

I mean, the penalties are pretty clear.

This is a fifth degree felony in Ohio to perform an abortion for anyone after a fetal heartbeat is detected.

And so, you have to assume that the little girl was sent to Indiana because Ohio doctors were too uncomfortable with the situation as it is right now.

- The attorney general in Indiana says he wants to look into whether the provider of the abortion, Caitlin Bernard, Dr. Caitlin Bernard acted properly reported properly.

NPR reports that she indeed did in the right amount of time reported properly what happened, but still you're seeing this become from that attorney general a very political case.

- Yeah and this, again, this is a doctor who performs abortion.

So she knows this issue very well.

She's been described as an abortionist and other terms that she feels have been smearing her.

She now her lawyer says that she may be considering legal action against entities that have made these comments.

And I mean, certainly the Republican Attorney General of Indiana going on Fox News saying, he's gonna investigate her.

That's something that is a doctor would certainly raise a lot of red flags here, but this was a, again, this was a story that was reported on the record.

This doctor, this was not an anonymous source.

It was a single source story, yes.

But these are reporters who have been working in the healthcare space and with Indianapolis for a long time.

And so to automatically raise red flags about that says something about journalism and the concern.

There's a real concern for journalists about being not believed here when they are doing the reporting that they always do, the solid reporting that they've done, but also the politicization of this whole process.

And really certainly Republicans have, but certainly Democrats have pointed to how this is an example of what can happen when you put into effect extreme abortion restrictions.

- I think what opened up the criticism though, is the fact that it was this one source, the doctor.

It wasn't independently corroborated.

The Washington Post said it couldn't do that, which essentially meant they couldn't find the girl.

And couldn't find that situation.

Andrew, that all changed when there was a charge.

- It did indeed.

And there's something very chilling in McCarthy ask about the era that we work in now as journalists.

But ultimately when it comes right down to it, our jobs in this table, wherever we are working as journalists are to be watch dogs for the people.

And how do we ensure trust, how do we main trust?

How do we build trust?

By proving out what we are reporting.

That's when authorities in Columbus say, yes, there really was a rapist and here is the person who is accused.

And in the case of the doctor in Indiana with NPR, stepping up and saying, you know what, here's the documentation.

She did everything she was supposed to, our actions prove our intent.

- Right, I mean, the facts are the facts.

- The facts are facts.

- The facts are the facts, but it's clear that there's a campaign now to vilify this doctor and that forces people who are against abortions.

They're gonna go after her and try to make her life as uncomfortable as possible.

- We're talking about the doctor potentially suing for slander for libel, but also, I mean, we need to think about the victim in this.

- [Marlene] Yes.

- The 10 year old.

And this is something that I've been thinking about for the last few days is.

- [Mike] Nine when she was assaulted.

- And we hear time and again, how a victim of rape is often victimized twice first by the crime itself.

And then by having to go through the trial, in essence, this young girl is being victimized by a trial in the court of public opinion.

- And by public officials who should be trusted, public officials basically calling her and her family liars.

- Hmm.

(suspenseful music) - A new bill in the Ohio house goes way beyond the current heartbeat law, which bans abortion after fetal cardiac activity is detected usually around six weeks, the Personhood Act would protect the constitutional rights of the unborn from the time of conception.

Karen, this bill brings back an old idea from anti-abortion activists.

- Yeah, I first covered the whole issue of personhood with a Zanesville doctor named Patrick Johnston back in 2011, I think it was.

And he's gone on to produce and write some interesting stories, dystopian tales, movies, books, that sort of thing.

But that whole personhood idea actually was certified to go to the ballot in terms of, or certified to gather signatures.

That signature effort did not produce a ballot issue, but all of this just really is a bigger picture in a sense, because personhood is so much more than just banning abortion.

I mean, personhood, when I spoke to representative Gary Click, a Baptist pastor who is the main sponsor of this bill, I asked him about things like, child support, would child support be required from the moment of conception, could a pregnant person claim tax exempt status for the unborn child from the moment of conception, he says, he's open to those ideas.

So there's a lot more going on here with personhood.

He did say he doesn't like the idea of a pregnant person trying to claim the ability to drive in the high occupancy vehicle lane.

Like in Texas, where you had that one woman who tried to do that, he said that he thought that was a silly idea, but again, personhood really implies a lot more than just abortion.

There are other issues here.

One of the things I wanna add to is when you look at abortion laws in general, and you talk about exemptions.

If the exemptions aren't clear, this potentially sets up real problems down the road.

And I think that that's what we're seeing here with this whole case with the 10 year old girl is if it's not believable, if there's not a police report, if you can't find the alleged rapist, would a person be able to get an abortion?

And especially when you're talking about a child, I'm using the word person here, because we're not talking about a woman, we're talking about a child.

- [Mike] Right?

- And so all of these things really are coming into view.

Now, with all of these restrictive abortion laws around the country, we're realizing the impact of some of these things.

Yes, it's rare, but the law is supposed to be protecting people who are in vulnerable positions and who's more vulnerable than this little girl?

- I wonder Marlene, if the idea of personhood could be extended too, now we're saying personhood would protect from abortion, but couldn't it then be policing how people are pregnant?

Oh, you ate something that wouldn't be good for that baby and that's human.

And so now you are going to be policed on that or prosecuted or something.

I mean, these I- - I mean, it could particularly.

- Think these are crazy, but it seems like - It could potentially happen.

Absolutely and it's clear that the plans are to go much further than where we are right now.

I mean, Ohio Right To Life has been very clear from the beginning.

I mean, I know Karen knows that they've had on their website for years, what they would like to see pass in Ohio.

So it's not a secret what's coming along.

So if anybody is surprised, you shouldn't be, because the plan is to get much more extreme, if you will, with what's going on and you're right, Mike, they could take it to that extreme.

And I'm hearing that, definitely contraception is on the table, restricting women's right to travel from state to state.

And on the national level, Republicans have made it clear that if they regain control, they plan to do a nationwide abortion ban.

Let me.

- Interesting, let me just jump on one quick thing.

When you mentioned contraception, I just wanted to note at the Cleveland Clinic, took some proactive steps this week saying they're gonna be having a contraceptive clinic on the weekends at some of their facilities.

- Yeah, it's interesting.

They said the number of vasectomies has gone up really, really high.

Men have reacted to this decision by saying, I'm gonna do some birth control if you will.

So they said they wanna give women the same opportunities.

So they're gonna start these clinics on Saturdays starting next week.

And they'll basically be in the morning.

And I thought it was really interesting though, this quote that the clinic had in their news release, that the quote was reproductive healthcare decisions are best made between a patient and their healthcare provider.

So I saw in a way the clinic sort of taken a stand there.

I don't know if you know how far they're gonna go with that, but I thought that was interesting.

- [Mike] Karen.

- Yeah, most of the major OB GYN groups actually support abortion rights.

So that's not a completely out there positioned for a lot of medical professionals, I don't think.

But one of the things that I wanted to note here is a lawyer who works, an Indiana lawyer, who works with the national Right To Life group and has drafted model legislation around the Supreme court's decision has said that this is what they wanted.

They want, they believe that the 10 year old girl in Ohio for instance, should have carried her pregnancy to term.

So there is an effort at least on some level to try to put a very restrictive abortion ban in place.

But the question is, of course, whether that would happen in Ohio.

And I don't know whether the Ohio legislature is, I mean, yes, they've passed these extreme measures, but would they go that far to pass personhood?

It only has nine, I think, eight sponsors at this point.

So that's a small percentage of the Ohio house, whether they're willing to go that far, that's the question.

And of course, they're not coming back until after the November election.

- Yeah.

- Potentially so, we'll find out maybe then.

(suspenseful music) - Steve Dettelbach, former US attorney for the Northern district of Ohio based in Cleveland will now lead the us bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives after being confirmed by the Senate 48 to 46.

Karen, he comes on board at a time when the nation has been dealing with multiple mass shootings, when gun policies are enormously divisive, he's got a big job ahead of him.

- Yeah, he's the first confirmed nominee, I think in seven years.

And I know that there were gun control advocates who were saying that confirming him was the first step in potentially dealing with the gun violence that's going on across the US.

It was a close vote, 48, 46.

And it's notable that Rob Portman and Susan Collins were among those who supported Dell Box nomination and confirmation to this position.

But he's got his work cut out for him because certainly gun violence has been a serious problem in the United States and trying to get a handle on that at this point, especially when you've got gun rights groups who are opposed to what that organization, that agency does.

And so, there's a lot of work that he has ahead of him.

- Yeah, we know him well, obviously Steve Dettelbach has been on this air.

He was the US attorney.

He was a lawyer in town as well.

Interesting though that there is any kind of confirmation because in this Senate, it wouldn't seem as though that would happen.

So interesting and Rob Portman really is a deciding vote in that case.

- Yeah, that is interesting.

You're right, because right now the Congress seems so divided that it's rare for anything to get done, especially in the gun, in the space of gun laws.

And so, oh, even though this isn't a law, this is a person who presumably would help the administration be more focused and be more strategic around their response.

And in plans for trying to do something, to get a handle on all this gun violence.

(upbeat music) - The lead curator for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and museum has been charged with attempting to sell nearly a 100 pages of handwritten lyrics that belong to The Eagles.

Most of the lyrics are from The Eagles 1976 classic album "Hotel California."

The charges do not appear to involve his work with the Rock Hall though.

Andrew, the lyrics were never part of the Rock Hall archives, and the alleged activity apparently was independent of his role as curator.

So we're not saying, hey, he spirited them away from Cleveland.

- No, but in essence, what he and two other men are accused of are trying to whitewash the trail of these 100 pages of handwritten lyrics to facilitate them being sold through an auction house, or even potentially there were some accusations that they may have tried to go back to Don Henley himself and say, "Hey, would you like to buy these back?"

- And what's interesting is Don Henley is the one that blew the whistle on this.

- [Andrew] Yeah.

- Saying apparently that these were stolen long, long ago from, from them.

- Yeah, exactly.

He had shared them with an unnamed author who was doing a biography at the time.

And that's where the story begins.

- Mm, Monday on "The Sound of Ideas" on 89 7 WKSU, we'll discuss the public banking model that advocates say is needed to repair the distrust in the financial system and to make it more equitable.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you so much for watching and stay safe.

(upbeat music)