Good afternoon, and welcome to Akron Roundtable.

I'm Barry Dunaway, president of the Akron Roundtable board of directors.

In consideration of our speakers today.

If I could ask you to silence your phones, that would be very much appreciated.

The Akron Roundtable has proudly promoted community dialog and networking for the past 49 years, and remains committed to our mission to bring the world to Akron by inviting individuals with diverse backgrounds and life experiences to speak on relevant topics, to inform and educate our community, consider other perspectives, and encourage us to take action.

It is our privilege to welcome Madhu Sharma, Executive Director, International Institute, of Akron, and Farhed Sethna, attorney, Immigration America, as today's speakers.

The topic of today's presentation is: ‘In search of solutions to the challenges facing US immigrants and refugees.’ and certainly based on the recent illegal deportations that have taken, that have been in the headlines in just the last few weeks.

This topic could not be more relevant.

I would now like to invite scholar and journalist Steven Savides to introduce our guest speakers and to moderate moderate today's conversation.

Steven - Thank you, Barry.

Much appreciated.

Hello everybody, and welcome today.

It is so good to see so many people here as we investigate this really important topic of immigration.

It's a controversial topic as you are well aware, and we have two phenomenal speakers.

You know I'm not going to do too much.

You can read the biographies anyway.

You can go into LinkedIn.

If you do you the LinkedIn thing and check out more about them.

But as I have come to know them, we today have two amazing humanitarians with us people who are deeply committed to the clients they serve.

Super intelligent people with law degrees.

Each has a Juris Doctorate.

Farhed practices law, he goes to court to advocate.

Madhu is, as you know the executive director of the International Institute of Akron.

And she does an amazing job advocating for people who are currently finding themselves in crisis.

So thank you both so much for being here, for your boldness, for your daring do, for the insights you're going to share with us.

One thing about those questions, that they have asked is, please, they cannot respond to case specific questions.

So keep those questions as general as you can so that they can stay on the safe side of the law and of their professional ethics.

We really would appreciate that.

With that, Just a little bit about myself.

And it's actually what we had in common is the three of us are immigrants to this country.

We are naturalized citizens of the United States.

And that's where we're going to start off questioning today, if you two would please give us, insights into your own immigration journey in the US and also why you do the work you do.

- Thank you, Steven.

I will start and I want to first say thank you so much for inviting myself and Farhed to speak today to all of you, about this really important topic in this time in our history.

So most of you do know this.

I'm seeing many familiar faces in the room.

I am an immigrant from India.

I came in 1971 with my family when I was an infant.

I grew up in rural Ohio, in New London, which is just a couple of hours west of Akron.

And I, you know, it was a time in our country where immigration was inviting professionals who were doctors and engineers to the United States to fill gaps in rural America in those two professions.

My dad's an engineer, an electrical engineer.

So we came to Ohio, from Punjab, India.

And, you know, I grew up and went to school here.

But I always felt, you know, that I didn't quite belong.

And I always felt, that I didn't quite belong when I would return to India as well.

I chose this profession, I believe in the work I do because of the voice it gave me and the notion that, you know, we have a narrative of immigration and an immigrant in our nation, but it doesn't always reflect the truth of our personal stories.

And I think, it was my purpose, really, to, lend voice to the truth of the stories of the people, not just that I serve, but who I am.

It wasn't intentional, right?

In your 20s, you don't know your speaking voice, but it is why I chose immigration law.

And it's why I spent the beginning of my career representing individuals in immigration court and federal courts and suing the government, and then eventually, teaching law and, and then later, leading a nonprofit in advocacy and uplifting immigrant legal services and, refugee resettlement services in Akron.

- Thank you.

Thank you, Madhu and thank you, Steven.

And thank you Akron Roundtable, for inviting us here today on this very, very important topic.

I, I'm going to skip a lot of the intricacies of my immigration history, other than to say I came to the United States as a F-1 Student, and I know that many in the audience perhaps know what an F-1 student is and maybe are F-1 students or know of an F-1 student.

And now I practice law in Cuyahoga Falls, and I would invite all of you to write this down, this website, saveimmigrantfamiliesusa.com saveimmigrantfamiliesusa.com Why did I get involved in immigration?

Well, first of all, I'm an immigrant and it just felt very natural to me to help other people from other countries come to this great land of opportunity, which is still, in my opinion, already a very great country and has always been.

Number two, because I felt that immigrants in this country have traditionally been treated unfairly.

Every wave of immigrants that has come to this country has in some way had to face discrimination before they could assimilate.

And that process, unfortunately, continues to unfold and has been exacerbated, as we know, in the last three months.

Yes?

Okay.

So I wanted to fight for the rights of immigrants like myself.

And nothing, nothing makes me happier than a client winning their asylum case, a client getting their green card, a client becoming a US citizen.

So with that having been said, let's go with the questions.

- Thank you.

So Farhed, Let's start with you.

I know my own immigration journey is also intricate.

I went from an F-1 student visa.

I left so went home to South Africa, became a journalist, came back to enter the Christian Science Monitor on an H-1b which is a professional worker visa.

I then went back to an F1.

I then went back to an H-1b and an R1 and eventually was able to apply for a green card, which made me an immigrant.

I was a nonimmigrant prior to that, and I then became an immigrant, and then I was able to apply for citizenship.

So I'm wondering if you could just sketch for us, very briefly the way the system works nonimmigrant to the immigrants.

And then Madhu we’re going to come to you let's you talk about, refugees and asylum seekers and undocumented immigrants.

- Okay.

Immigration 101.

This is what I teach in my immigration law class, and and my and my and two of my former students are actually here in the audience.

They came back to suffer through another lecture from Professor Sethna.

Okay.

Brave souls.

Immigration has two parts.

Non immigrants are people who come to this country with a visa, typically to work temporarily for pleasure, perhaps to study and other types of purposes as well.

A nonimmigrant is here for a specific time, for a specific purpose as defined by that nonimmigrant’s visa.

Immigrants, on the other hand, are people who we talk about as permanent residents, someone colloquially with a green card.

We've all heard that term, right?

Green card?

Yes?

No?

Yeah.

You can say yes and no.

It's perfectly fine.

We can participate.

Okay, so an immigrant has a green card.

Immigrants get their green cards and become permanent residents through a process either sponsored by a family member who's a citizen or someone who is coming to work for an employer who sponsors them, or perhaps through refugees or asylees of who Madhu is the expert, perhaps through investment.

And then there's a range of special programs which also allows for immigrants to come to this country.

So having said that, I hope I've given you a little sketch book of immigrant versus nonimmigrant.

Can stay and live and work permanently in the USA and nonimmigrant here for a specific purpose, for a specific defined time.

- Thank you.

That was really concise.

I'm super impressed.

Madhu asylum seekers, refugees, undocumented immigrants.

I'm also just curious, as you answer this, about that very fine distinction between somebody who could be said to be illegal because they are undocumented.

I know it's a really big question.

If you would share your wisdom with us.

We’d greatly appreciate it.

- I hope I can do as well as Farhad at summarizing in just a few minutes such a complex, different categorization of human beings.

So let's just remember that we're talking about human beings that journey to the United States, right?

To gain a life here.

Right?

And there's different ways.

The third way, that I think, the nonimmigrant and the immigrant, there is a humanitarian, component of our immigration laws, the humanitarian component of our immigration laws is sought through asylum, political asylum, which is for individuals who are either within the United States or at our border seeking refuge.

Or it is, a status that you gain through refugee, the refugee process.

IIA The International Institute of Akron is a refugee settlement organization.

We serve people who are asylum seekers and refugees that meet an international definition of humanitarian protection.

That is, people who are, afraid, or have been subjected to persecution based on their race, their religion, their nationality, their political opinions, or their membership in a particular social group.

They've either been persecuted in the past or they would- They have a well-founded fear that they would be persecuted in the future if they stayed in their country.

So that's an international definition.

And the United States has signed a UN treaty that acknowledges that we will provide refuge to people who are asylum seekers and refugees.

We have two different, ways in which you can gain access.

One is through the state Department outside the US getting refugee status, and one is within the US or at our borders getting asylum status.

And then you add the question of the undocumented or the quote unquote illegal immigrant.

I think, you know, the it's a myth, really, that people are illegal or there's illegal immigrants.

It is really just a question of understanding our laws.

We can have three days of lecture on US immigration laws and policies, but people who are in the United States without status, without documentation, without a nonimmigrant visa or an immigrant visa, or without refugee status or asylum status, right.

Those are the individuals we're talking about when we're saying they're quote unquote, illegal.

Immigration laws are civil laws.

They're not criminal laws.

So I think it's really important to note that this concept of the illegal is a political rhetoric.

It's a word we've attached to human beings and their experience and access to immigration laws.

In the United States, immigration status is defined by our laws.

But our presidents can snatch it away or grants it, as we've seen recently.

And so while the United States has 12 million, approximately 12 million undocumented immigrants, over half of them came with nonimmigrant visas or some form of status that then later, they fell out of status or that was snatched away from them.

And we're seeing a time right now in history where people who came from Ukraine, from Haiti, from Venezuela, from Cuba, from Nicaragua, they're about to be in that position of having common legal status and then having that snatched away and being illegal.

So it's very loaded, but it's historically, defined by really our Congress and our president and not by the people and their choices and their decisions.

I hope that answers your.

- It certainly does.

And I very much appreciate that focus on you know, we're talking about human beings, people like us and they might even be some folks in the audience today or in the broadcast audience who are really anxious right now because of everything that's going on.

Maybe we can think about, ICE raids or the threat of ICE raids, deportations.

We hear about green card holders being detained at the border.

We hear about student visas being reversed here at the University of Akron.

I believe two students recently had their, visas revoked.

Kent State.

It's fairly common.

It would seem we have those protected statuses being removed all of a sudden.

And I'm wondering where this leaves us right now.

You said, Madhu, this has- you know, the president has prerogative to make this law civil law.

And I'm curious how you both feel about this, what's going on right now, and especially what the impact is on our friends and neighbors here in Akron and Northeast Ohio.

- Madhu?

- Hmm, Okay.

So I would say, know, in the last 100 days we have watched, if you're not an expert in immigration law, we're all about to become, right because we've watched, the issues that impact immigrants in our country and our laws and our policies be challenged right by executive order.

So I think I would like to start with acknowledging that there are several orders that came out of the white House that started to chip away at vulnerable immigrants in our communities.

And those executive orders then led to all these things we're hearing in the news.

And I could run through those executive orders, Farhed and I could explain them each to you but IIA immediately on day one suffered a suspension of refugee arrivals.

Right?

There was a suspension in the United States of refugees coming to the U.S. the suspension was litigated.

We won in the lower court.

And it's now being appealed to the higher court.

And each one of these orders that was issued that impacts our work and immigrants and refugees has been litigated and is being attacked in courts around the country.

But I think what we're seeing right now is the fact that we can see that the president has the power by executive order to do things that really Congress should be doing, which is enacting laws and making, frankly, revisions to laws when the laws don't reflect the values of U.S. citizens.

And instead we're watching- And this is not the first time in history that we've watched presidents, fill a gap, that is really required in- for Congress to fill.

Right?

We have to enact laws and, and respect the Constitution and the rule of law and due process.

And we're seeing all of that kind of fall apart right now because of the fact that by executive orders, we can start chipping away at our laws and our policies.

And the reason they're being litigated is because a president can't actually engage in ordinance that are unconstitutional or that are in violation of existing laws like the Immigration and Nationality Act, like the Refugee Act, like the Administrative Procedures Act, and like the United States Constitution.

So I think we have been following very closely the litigation.

because, and I think most of you hopefully are also following some of the lawsuits to see where is this going to land when we have, national politics at the presidential level that's engaging in rulemaking.

And, you know, where is it going to land, what's lawful?

What isn’t lawful?

Right now, The human side of it is we are seeing in Akron, yes student visas have been- at U of A we've had a few student visas that we've revoked.

We have seen that at Kent State.

We've had people disappeared, people from Akron who have ICE has picked them up, detained them before they even had a consult with one of our attorneys.

They have been disappeared.

You know, we don't have releases, so it's not you're not reading about it in the papers, but there is no community in America that hasn't had someone lifted out of their community, taken to detention, and then within days, left the United States and is in a foreign prison.

It is not just, the prison in El Salvador that we're hearing about.

So, Farhed, I don't know if you want to add to this.

Such a loaded question.

- I think that Madhu sees a certain aspect of this practice that I share with her, which is people coming into my office who are desperate, and I want to talk about that human cost, just as I said in my opening remarks about aliens throughout the history of this nation being discriminated as the other, that same focus has been- that same spotlight is being brought upon the alien once again.

And let's not forget that these aliens are part and parcel of our fabric, of our society.

Whether you like it or not, Someone is coming and cutting the grass in your yard.

Someone is coming and cutting the grass at your business.

Someone is doing your laundry.

Someone is cooking the meal in the back of a restaurant where you go to eat your dinner.

All of those people are human beings, just like you and me.

And the concern I have, the greatest concern I have is the total lack of due process.

We are a nation of laws and what we are seeing today, ladies and gentlemen and young men and women from the schools who are here and I want to give you a big hand because you're here learning.

You're learning about civics and government and politics at an early age.

And I commend you for doing that.

And the teachers who brought them here.

So, my friends, we talk about due process and the rule of law.

That is what distinguishes this country from 90% of the other countries in this world.

And we are seeing that rule of law being demolished, and we are seeing due process being eviscerated at every level.

And immigration and immigrants are the easiest targets of this government.

So I completely agree with what Madhu has said.

And just add that a little bit of context about due process and civil liberties and the rule of law at this point.

Steven.

- Yeah.

So you actually spend a lot of time in court.

Let's stick with you for right now, Farhed.

And you're, Well, something I found out yesterday the New York Times was that there is a Justice Department directive about immigration judges and asylum seekers and basically just denying cases that don't seem as if they are winnable on the part of the asylum seeker that seems to contravene what I would understand to be the separation of powers.

So how are immigration judges appointed?

What's the difference between the immigration judge and another kind of judge?

And then, you know, can the Justice Department actually tell judges how to exercise their rights?

- Excellent question, Steven.

Everyone needs to understand that immigration judges and immigration court and the Board of Immigration Appeals, which oversees the immigration courts, are administrative law judges.

They are appointed by the Attorney General.

They are not appointed by the president.

They don't need to be confirmed by the Senate.

Those judges are appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate through what is called article three of the Constitution.

Those judges constitute our federal judiciary.

That's a different class of judges.

That's the federal judicial system.

They're appointed by the president.

They're confirmed by the Senate.

Immigration law judges, as are tax judges or any other administrative law judge in any area.

Social security law, for example, they are administrative law judges.

So their agencies tell those judges how to apply the law and what policy to deal with.

For example, just as Steven mentioned, Sirce Owen, who is now the head of the directorate, essentially called EOIR, Executive Office for Immigration Review or Immigration Court, decreed to immigration judges on April 11th that immigration judges have the carte blanche authority to dismiss any case, for example, an asylum case which doesn't in the immigration judge’s eye, have enough merit to sustain That makes the judge a judge, a jury, and the executioner all in one fell swoop.

And how is that possible?

That means you're telling the alien you have no right to even have your day in court.

You don't even have a right to have your case heard.

Anybody heard of due process?

We talked about just a few minutes ago.

Rule of law we talked of that a few minutes ago.

Where is that due process?

Where is that rule of law?

We are seeing a very, very troubling time when courts and executive branch agencies are being subsumed to the will of the executive in a manner that is lawless, which totally lacks due process.

The only thing that's holding this dam back right now, and it's a huge dam that we have, thank God, is the federal judiciary.

But the federal judiciary is only as strong as the Supreme Court of the United States.

Keep that in mind.

The sobering thought.

- Can I add to that, Steven?

I think, you know, Farhed, has mentioned, due process, due process, due process.

There's just- a very- the difference between a democracy is due process.

It's this concept that there is a process by which we must treat people in granting them benefits and rights, and in taking those away Right?

That's the difference of democracy in a totalitarian regime.

I have represented people and our staff represents people from all over the world who sought to escape systems of government where they were denied due process, they were disappeared or their family members were disappeared.

And now we're seeing that in this United States.

And it is not the job of me and Farhed or Steven or even defense attorneys in the nation to uphold due process.

Right?

It is really the voice of Americans and democracy that demands that basic- that basic human right of due process.

And I think you know, the first, I don't know, last two months, I think I spent some time in, quiet observation and fear and quite frankly, was cautious with my voice.

And it was probably just a small echo.

You would hear it sometimes, and most of the time you were asking, where is IIA?

Where is, you know, Madhu?

Where is that voice?

What do we do?

Right?

This is the time, I think, when, we have to have, collective voice of courage.

And it should not be a voice of only immigrants, right?

It needs to be the voice of Americans who can uphold The rule of law in the Constitution because it is at risk at the moment.

And the fact that we're watching immigrants suffer this, it's really just the first wave.

If we don't uphold due process because, you know, we're all sitting up here at risk of our, own you know, profession and, of our own status in the United States because we weren't born in this country.

And I do also want to say there is an executive order right now that's attacking people who serve immigrants.

Right?

Not just the judges, but immigration lawyers.

And I have already seen the choices and the difficulty.

The immigration lawyers that work at IIA have had in making difficult ethical choices to uphold their responsibilities attorneys, and the risks that they face to possibly lose their license.

Right?

So it is a tough time.

And it's really only happened in within a matter of two months that we are at risk of losing our democracy.

And I think we need to fight back.

- So how do we do that?

Right?

how do we I mean, especially people who are privileged citizens who are born here.

I know I feel a little bit of trepidation in terms of my own immigration status.

No, but past the five year mark, be a naturalized citizen.

But I still fear that, you know, there could be repercussions to activism, to doing something about the situation.

So what can especially, you know, people born in this country, what can they do?

What are- what should they know about immigrant’s rights that they can do to protect those rights?

- So first of all, five years the magic, that's the point at which the government should not really take away your citizenship after you've been naturalized.

But they can still.

Right?

Yeah.

So I think, this is an important question that you have you've asked and, I don't have that answer, but what I, I envision really, I'm strategic and I am imagining an America where the, you know, International Criminal Court actually oversees, human rights violations in our country.

How do we get there?

Right?

We have to collectively have the voice of courage.

I think we have to be loud.

There has to be a resistance to having our constitution intact.

It's not political.

It doesn't matter which party- political party you belong to.

There is a basic, I guess, the dream of America that really brings every, you know, the whole rhetoric about immigrants is, you know, we come here for the American dream.

We're a nation of immigrants.

And it's a, there's a lack of truth in it, frankly, at the moment.

And there historically has been a lack of truth in it.

And I think we need to acknowledge the truth, recognize what people are actually going through, and then organize.

And we should organize across parties, across religions, across race, across faith.

We must organize to uphold our Constitution.

And I think that is the base of what holds this country together at the moment.

And it you can't just leave it up to the Supreme Court, right?

Even though it is their job to do that.

It is our job to hold all of our government accountable and our representatives, and whoever we elected as president.

Madhu makes a very good point about getting involved, and I would commend you once again, there are lots of resources out there, including the website I mentioned earlier, saveimmigrantfamiliesusa.com and it has on that website, I've posted a detailed questionnaire or intake form, etc.

if someone wants to get involved, visit that website.

It also has know your rights information on there.

Flyers You can print out and hand out to people and help you can give to your immigrant brothers and sisters.

It's also, as I mentioned, the intake form is both in English and in Spanish, so helping others realize the types of relief from deportation that they may be entitled to under the law would be a big first step in cementing those people's ability to be seen as human beings under the rule of law and have an application filed which potentially protects their status and their residence in the United States.

The second thing I will say is this, we need to have stronger words from our Supreme Court.

When our Supreme Court last Monday said, well, the administration should facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia from El Salvador, what exactly this facilitate mean is that, like Steven sending a car to my office to pick me up so I can come here today, is that facilitate?

No.

We need stronger language.

We need the Supreme Court to say.

Abrego Garcia was deported wrongfully.

The administration admitted as such.

And he needs to come back here to the USA.

But the Supreme Court didn't say that.

That is what scares me today, ladies and gentlemen, is we have a system in which we have unequal power between the branches of government.

It's a wonderful system, but it's wonderful only if it works.

And that's why we have to work together, collectively, put pressure on our lawmakers, whether Republican or Democrat, to do what is right in the interests of our Constitution, our rule of law, and our due process.

- Thank you.

So you know, something that I'm ruminating over here as you speak is also the effect on immigrants here in Akron.

And I'm wondering if you have any stories you can share, understanding that you have ethical boundaries and may not have permissions to share much, but what can you share with us about the actual experience of human beings, our neighbors here in Akron?

I mean, can you shed any light on that?

- I can say that, any immigrant in the community who has reached out to myself personally or to our organization, this includes me has some fear at the moment.

And there is a, terror that is running through our community that isn't just held by immigrants.

Right?

It's held by those Akronites who are concerned about their neighbors and our community and our country as a whole.

Last week there was a requirement of registration.

For all those individuals who may be undocumented in the United States, and, it was essentially upheld in the litigation that litigation is not over.

But for now, undocumented immigrants need to register.

Registration is a concept in the immigration law that has existed since the 1940s and it's been used strategically throughout our history.

When I was a very, new and young attorney, post 9/11 registration was brought back, right?

People who were from majority Muslim countries were required to register if they were male and they were between certain ages.

We used it, for Japanese internment, during World War Two as well.

So it's a tool to prosecute.

And it's always been a tool to prosecute.

We're hearing messages in the community right now that people are- should I register?

Should I not register?

They’re trying to understand what their requirements are and follow laws.

But those rules that are being, you know, dictated at the moment are, putting them at risk.

And our job, really, as advocates and lawyers, is to teach them about, tell them about those risks.

And it puts them in a really difficult position because most people who are embedded in our community are working here, they're living here, their families are here.

They've lived here for years and sometimes decades.

They're part of Akron, and now they're at risk of being lifted out of their community and deported.

And the words we're hearing about self-deportation, that is not a thing.

There's no such thing as self-deportation.

Either the government put you through deportation proceedings and gives you access to due process and the court structure, or they disappear you.

Right?

Or you voluntarily leave.

You can leave.

That's not self-deporting.

So attaching words to and legal concepts to a person's particular circumstances is really confusing our immigrant community at the moment.

And so I think the fear is a genuine fear.

Families are being separated.

We have the suspension of refugee arrivals.

And, you know, there was a family whose daughter, adult daughter was left behind and she was on her way to Akron.

And as soon as this suspension hit, that flight got canceled and she didn't make it here.

And she's at risk.

Her life is at risk in a foreign country right now.

We have people who have lived here for decades in Akron who were pulled up, picked up by ICE, and without access to the courts, without access to an attorney, they were deported to countries that they sought refuge from, that they gained refugee status from.

And then they disappeared in a prison that's happening in our community.

And so I don't think the things we're watching on the news are different at all from the experiences of immigrants in our community.

I can only imagine how students whose visa statuses were revoked, and researchers whose visa status are soon going to be revoked based on funding cuts.

Right?

I can only imagine there's a sense of deep loss and grief, and frankly, I'm at the point of anger.

I'm done crying in public.

But I did that for the first two months.

- I’m well past anger.

I was past anger on day two.

And if you haven't been paying attention, you should be past anger as well.

Okay.

But all of this, all of this is so true.

And I'm seeing it in the faces of the clients who come and see me at my office every day.

I've had citizens come and ask me, can they take away my citizenship?

I'm not kidding you.

Naturalized citizens come and ask me that question, and I'm going to give you just a couple of quick answers here in the limited time we have left.

Number one, spread this word around, okay?

Nobody needs to talk to ICE without a lawyer.

Let's not forget we still have that right.

I am not speaking to you until I have a lawyer.

You want to take me to jail?

That's fine.

I get a phone call.

I'm going to call someone.

Start creating networks.

Tell your friends who are out there.

Who may be immigrants.

Create a network.

Have a phone chain so someone knows where you are.

When you're able to get that call out of jail, you can call someone who can help you.

You can find somebody to help.

So that's number one.

Take some action.

Number two, present a form or written document to an ICE officer who stops you.

I've got those on that same website I mentioned to you.

I don't want to speak to you.

I want a lawyer.

I'm not going to tell you my name.

I'm not going to tell you my address.

If you're served with a warrant, if it's not a judicial warrant, the ICE agent cannot enter your home.

And people have to know that only a judicial warrant allows a law enforcement officer to break and enter.

Of course, there are some exigent circumstances as well, but only a judicial warrant is sufficient for an arrest.

Therefore, all those points need to be taken out by people like you.

Good people who came here wanting to learn more.

If you want to get involved and learn what you can do to stand up for this country and our Constitution, you can do a lot.

You're all citizens.

You're all protected.

Okay?

So be aware of your rights and spread knowledge of those rights among the general population.

- So I hear that you're beyond anger.

Madhu, you no longer crying in public.

- How is the community doing?

The community of advocates and lawyers, attorneys who are working with immigrants?

How are you all doing?

At this time.

- I think I'm doing fine now.

It took me a minute to get there.

Everybody is it's quite a privilege to be able to have our work be to do something about it.

Right.

We don't have to ask questions at night about what we should be doing or could be doing, because we're doing it all day.

We can go home and take care of ourselves.

My job as a leader is to ensure that our team at IIA, it’s an amazing staff, but we have a tremendous extension of our staff, which is our community, our volunteers, the advocates who have reached out to us.

I see neighbors in the room who are part of IIA, in the work we do to represent immigrants, to serve immigrants and refugees in our community.

So I think when you say how we're doing, I'm sure each individual is going through their own personal struggles.

But to have the power and the privilege of doing this work really does give us the chance, at least in the evening, to do the self-care we need.

And my job as a leader is to ensure that I'm giving space to people, you know, to create those boundaries and create balance.

And at the same time, there's so many things happening in Akron already that, you know, we're not doing this work alone at all.

And that is an amazing thing to see that Farhed and I are sitting up here and we are in different circles, in different rooms on different days.

Whether it's our work or whether it's our weekend, we're usually doing some work that's impacting this concern that we all have right now for immigrants.

But I do have to say, if you would have asked me that question a few weeks ago or even that time that we all had lunch, I was probably still very deeply hurt.

I felt a deep sense of pain over not just what I was watching human beings suffer through, that we serve.

But, the just sheer injustice of 27 plus years of being an immigration lawyer and an immigration advocate and watching what's happening in our nation, I didn't feel we had no voice.

I just knew that it was going to take an entire nation, to really change this rhetoric.

And we're not anywhere near that.

But we are at the beginnings of that.

I believe in that, that we are in the beginnings of that.

So it gives me peace.

And you know, to be honest, if anyone's not watching The Pitt, it sure does make me feel like there's some people out there that are, commiserating on television with us.

So I watch some TV too to get to, to decompress.

- I love that idea of self-care and boundaries.

- Yeah.

- On TV, long walks.

I think it's absolutely essential, probably for all of us right now who are enduring this and Farhed I want to just, you know, pose the last question before we go to the Q&A session to you, which is, we have a sense of this from on Madhu already.

But, where do you find hope right now in this moment?

And, Madhu Please feel free to add on.

- I find hope in seeing a room full of you.

Give yourselves a hand, I mean it.

Give yourselves a hand.

because you are here and you represent the good in America.

You are here because you represent the voices who are willing to speak out against nationalism and (unintelligable) and jingoism and never mind, I don't even want to say that name -ism.

Okay?

We don't need that.

So we together give each other hope.

In my office, I take time to make sure that my staff can decompress.

As you can imagine, I have a wonderful staff and as you can also imagine, we're under pressure every day.

My hope is to give them enough time at work to be able to decompress, to measure the amount of work I'm doling out to them to be careful in the tasks, I'm assigning to one person or another.

Those are the kind of things we can do as individuals, but together we give each other hope.

So don't forget that when you leave here today, take that hope with you.

Because in numbers there is strength.

- And you had something you wanted to share.

Yes, I do, thank you so much.

To our congregation, I almost wanted to say that deserves an amen right there.

- Thank you my friends.

All of you have heard this in some form or the other, so I'm going to read the original version to you written by Martin Niemoller.

Probably, I’m destroying the name, but you probably know this in some form or the other.

When the Nazis came to the communists, I kept quiet because I wasn't a communist.

When they came for the trade unionists, I kept quiet because I wasn't a trade unionist.

When I looked up- when they locked up the Social Democrats, I kept quiet because I wasn't a Social Democrat.

When they locked up the Jews, I kept quiet.

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for the immigrants, I kept quiet because I wasn't an immigrant.

When they came for me, there was no one left to protest.

Thank you.

(applause) - Thank you both so very much.

I'm going to hand over to Pam Hickson-Stevenson, the executive director of our Akron Summit County Public Library and a board member of the Akron Roundtable for the Q&A’s Thank you.

-Thank you, all three of you, very much for a provocative, interesting and informative presentation.

We appreciate it.

And to the audience, I have far more questions than I can ask in the in the time remaining.

So we will we will plow our way through them as quickly as we can.

One of the very first questions that came in is, what can Akron businesses and organizations do today to create internal welcome centers for our new to Akron international neighbors?

- If I may just address that very quickly.

I think that being visible and present and showing that you welcome immigrants is a great start.

Even a simple sign on your door that says all are welcome here, or a word map, perhaps things like that make people feel that they can walk in.

A smile on the face of the receptionist is great.

A kindly handshake is wonderful.

A question about how is your family doing?

Where are you from would be terrific, and a supportive look and a supportive gesture is incredibly meaningful and helpful to immigrants.

Trust me, I know that they come into my office every day.

- So I would say that, you know, I don't think I won't presume to tell an Akronite how to be welcoming, right?

It's a friendly town, right?

I don't need to tell people I feel we know what it means to welcome someone.

I think there is a very entrepreneurial component of that question where each person who is a business owner is going to have a creative idea to, you know, really maybe even create a theme around welcoming where you highlight that purposefully.

Right?

We have Welcoming Week in September.

We have Immigrant Heritage Month in June.

We have different immigrant heritages that have different months of celebration and acknowledging that in some way of celebration of those heritage, the heritages that live in our community is also a way of not necessarily having to call out people to identify themselves and their background and their ethnicity in these times.

But it's a way of saying, you are welcome here.

I think the sign it's really important.

All are welcome here.

It's nonpolitical really.

It's just sometimes just using someone's language to greet them is a beautiful way of showing.

Welcome.

And if you have questions about how to greet, I am pretty sure Liv Randall, who's in our room.

Can- She's our communications specialist.

Can, add something on our website so you can know how to say hello to someone, or Good morning, or good afternoon or good evening in different languages of the, communities that we serve here in Akron.

But I think that's- it's really just human nature.

There's- I don't think that's it While, that's an important question.

I think the answer to that question lives in the audience and not necessarily up here.

On the stage.

- There was an acknowledgment made to our student attendees, earlier in the presentation.

And this question asks, what role can student led organizations or clubs play in making schools more inclusive for immigrants?

- I think that's really difficult right now.

There are executive orders that are somewhat prohibiting student activity and organizing.

And, I can say specifically for student visa holders, they are, ICE is looking at social media platforms, and enforcing the immigration laws, I wouldn't even say they’re immigration laws, they're engaging in enforcement activities that are unlawful at the moment, targeting students.

It is the work of, really, I think a generation at the moment to find a way around this time in history when it comes to activism.

Each generation as a student has had an activist movement.

And I think this is yours.

And I don't want to keep tossing it back, but it's, what I learned during I don't know, I think it was Desert Storm when I was in college.

Is that it takes courage to raise your voice.

This is not a time for echoes of the time for a roar.

And when you roar, there should be many people around you.

The more people that share that voice, the more protected you are.

And don't put it on your socials.

That's the biggest piece of advice I can give you right now.

It is not activism, to post it.

Activism is to do it.

Get out there and do it and raise your voice.

You don't need a witness.

It will be witnessed.

There are journalists for that.

- I'll just after that very quickly, in the brief time we have, that even the schools themselves may be precluded from doing things for fear of lack of funding or, grants being snatched away, etc., individuals can still do what they want to do.

It's not illegal for students to form a club.

For example, the club is not being funded by the school.

That's perfectly fine.

So there are things you can do.

Again, we don't need to broadcast everything on the media.

Keep it quiet, keep it simple, word of mouth.

And you can still have that that sense of community, strength, purpose and unity and most importantly, support for people who feel vulnerable.

- I have two questions that I'm going to try to combine into one.

You've, referred to the role that Congress should be, should be playing regarding immigration law.

And there, I think is a probably, majority, agreement that, majority among our citizens that, Congress has failed, to create laws that address the immigration problem.

How do we as citizens hold our elected officials accountable?

How do we push on the issue of developing commonsense immigration laws that recognize issues that both sides see?

- Well, that's a very, very great question.

And we could spend three hours discussing it and still not come up with an answer.

Correct?

Okay.

Congress has a job to do.

They clearly haven't done it for decades.

The easy thing for Congress to always do is to criminalize something, they criminalize crime That's, of course, the first thing they do is go after criminals.

The next thing is immigrants because they're easy targets.

Congress has to, thanks to people like you, be elected every two years, and Congress has to, Thanks again to people like you.

Listen to what you're saying.

That is, if they show up to town hall meetings, which we're seeing an alarming lack of happening these days.

Okay, so if you can push your congresspeople and senators to do what you believe is right, in sufficient force that might convince them to see there is enough of a mass of people who will support them in the next election, because that's really all they look for, is am I going to get reelected?

If this is sufficient mass behind them to get reelected, then they possibly do what you're asking them to do.

And I would just add that, we might need some new congresspeople.

Right?

So if you are inclined to run for office, we need good candidates.

If- I don't know any other job where you could not do your job and keep your job.

So, So let's, you know, let's get people who will do the job for us.

You know, they work for us.

And I would also say, please, if you're young, do not become apathetic to politics.

I know it's so easy to do every generation does that.

I remember, you know, be critical.

That's so American.

We should criticize.

It's very American to criticize our representatives.

They should hear that if they don't respond to collective voice, then, you know, we should vote them out of office.

And by the way, many of you have already organized and have groups and invite our representatives to your groups and share your concerns.

It does not have to be on their terms.

They will show up.

They will show up for you.

And specifically on this point, it is IIA’s intention to organize, an advocacy ask, so you know, your voices matter to us, too.

We know we have an entire community behind our work.

But we expect them to show up and tell them what we need from them in order to get our vote.

So you should be doing the same in your groups.

I know it seems, a bit preachy, but I think we have a job to do right now.

As constituents, we have to hold our elected officials accountable.

They have- They can't get away with not doing their jobs.

Or not really holding up an entire branch of government which has become defunct in my opinion.

- I'm going to ask one last question, and I'm a little over time.

So if you can keep your answers very, very brief, but it's a very thought provoking question.

Are we in this country now creating the conditions for exporting or expelling more asylum seekers and or refugees who are facing persecution here than we are allowing in?

- Short answer, yes - Yes.

Yes, I agree we are absolutely.

- Thank you.

(applause) - Madhu, Farhed, Steven, thank you so much for today's conversation.

We, we don't take for granted your bravery in having this conversation.

We're so glad you are American citizens and that you're in Akron making a difference.

So thank you so much.

I'd like to invite Michael Batu from Gardens Wealth Management to the podium to present our signature contemplative sun.

This work of art was designed exclusively for the Akron Roundtable by Akron artist Don Drumm, and is sponsored by Gardens Wealth Management.