>>ANNOUNCER: REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NATIONAL EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NEW MEXICO, AN ORGANIZATION OF PROFESSIONALS WHO BELIEVE THAT INVESTING IN PUBLIC EDUCATION IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR STATE'S ECONOMIC FUTURE, FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE.

I AM THRILLED TO ANNOUNCE THAT OUR GUEST TODAY IS ALAN ARKIN, ACTOR, DIRECTOR, AUTHOR EXTRAORDINAIRE, THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK TO THE SHOW, THIS IS OUR THIRD INTERVIEW, ALAN.

>>ALAN: WELL I AM SO HAPPY TO SEE YOU AGAIN, LORENE, IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME.

>>LORENE: IT HAS, IT HAS JUST ONE LITTLE BIT OF HOUSEKEEPING, I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE KNOWS WHO YOU ARE, THE AWARD WINNING ACTOR IN SUCH FILMS AS THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING, THE RUSSIANS ARE COMIN, THE HEART IS THE LONELY HUNTER, WAIT UNTIL DARK, CATCH 22, THE IN LAWS, ARGO .

RECENTLY YOU GOT THE ACADEMY AWARD FOR BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR IN LITTLE MISS SUNSHINE .

ON TV, YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE KOMINSKY METHOD , WHICH YOU GOT GOLDEN GLOBES FOR.

PEOPLE, THIS IS YOUR BEST PANDEMIC VIEWING, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF ALAN'S WORKS, YOU WILL RIDE THROUGH THE PANDEMIC JUST ENTRANCED, SO, THANK YOU.

ALAN, WE ARE HERE TO CELEBRATE YOUR BOOK, IT'S CALLED OUT OF MY MIND AND THEN THE SUBTITLE IS NOT QUITE A MEMOIR BY ALAN ARKIN.

YOU HAVE OTHER BOOKS TOO, COULD YOU HOLD UP ONE OF MY OLD FAVORITES, AN IMPROVISED LIFE .

>>ALAN: YEAH, I THINK THIS IS ABOUT 10 YEARS OLD.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW OLD IT IS.

>>LORENE: IT'S 2011, I THINK.

>>ALAN: YEAH I GUESS IT IS ABOUT 10 YEARS OLD NOW.

>>LORENE: YEAH, BUT IT IS ETERNAL.

AND ALSO YOU HAVE WRITTEN SUCH WONDERFUL CHILDREN'S BOOKS.

BUT I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE TITLE, OUT OF MY MIND .

I FOUND SO MANY LAYERS IN IT, HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH THIS TITLE AND THAT WOULD LEAD US INTO WHY YOU WROTE THE BOOK.

>>ALAN: I GUESS IT WAS PARTLY IN ANTICIPATION OF PEOPLE THINKING THAT I WAS CRAZY TO WRITE IT.

PEOPLE EXPECT THAT AND THE SUBTITLE, THE SUBTITLE CAME OUT OF THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EXPECTING THAT WHEN ACTORS WRITE THEIR MEMOIRS IT IS ALWAYS TELL ALL STUFF ABOUT WHO THEY HAD AFFAIRS WITH AND HOW THEIR CAREER PROGRESSED.

I DIDN'T WANT TO WRITE ABOUT THAT, IT DIDN'T INTEREST ME THAT MUCH, I WANTED TO WRITE ABOUT THE MIRACLES THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN MY LIFE.

I'VE HAD A SERIES OF MIRACLES THAT I HAVE BEEN PRIVY TO AND ALSO THAT I HAVE BEEN AROUND AND I STARTED WRITING ABOUT THEM PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE SENSE THAT THE PANDEMIC WAS MAKING EVERYBODY DEPRESSED AND FELT LIKE THERE WAS NO REASON TO GO ON AND ONE REWARDS THAT WITH THE PLANET.

AND THESE WERE ALL SITUATIONS THAT AROSE IN MY LIFE THAT GAVE ME AN ABSOLUTE AFFIRMATION THAT THERE IS MORE TO THIS EXISTENCE THAN JUST WHAT WE SEE WHEN WE ARE WALKING AROUND AND WASHING THE DISHES AND CLEANING THE HOUSE AND GOING ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

THEY ARE ALL AFFIRMATIONS THAT THERE IS MORE TO THIS EXISTENCE OF OURS THAN WE JUST SEE ON A DAILY BASIS.

THAT'S WHAT CAME OUT FOR MYSELF AND FOR THE PEOPLE WHO I FELT MIGHT WANT TO READ ABOUT IT.

>>LORENE: WELL I FOUND SO MANY LAYERS IN THIS TITLE BECAUSE IT COULD BE OUT OF MY MIND LIKE I AM CRAZY, I'M JUST OUT OF MY MIND.

>>ALAN: YES, SOME PEOPLE WHO READ THE BOOK JUST THOUGHT I AM CRAZY AND WANT TO PUT ME AWAY.

I GUESS ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO READ IT ARE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT IT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT I WAS GETTING TO AND SOME OF THE OTHER PEOPLE WANTED TO TELL ALL MEMOIR, WHICH I WAS NOT ABOUT TO WRITE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ONE AND IT DOESN'T INTEREST ME.

THEN THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO WRITE ABOUT SO THERE WE ARE.

>>LORENE: I ALSO FELT THAT IN THE BUDDHIST SENSE TO BE OUT OF YOUR MIND OR YOUR BRAIN AND EXPANDING IN TO A GREATER CONSCIOUSNESS AND PURE BEING AND YOU WOULD ALSO MENTION ABOUT WRITING, YOU SAID IT IS LIKE LANCING A BOIL.

YOU DON'T CONSIDER YOURSELF A WRITER WHICH YOU SHOULD, BUT YOU LANCE A BOIL, YOU GET IT OUT ON THE PAGE AND SO OUT OF MY MIND ALSO MEANS THAT YOU HAVE GOTTEN IT OUT, OUT FROM BEING CARRIED AROUND, IT'S ON THE PAGE, ALL THE SPECIAL EXPERIENCES THAT BUBBLE UP AND YOU CAN LAY THEM DOWN.

>>ALAN: YEAH, THAT WAS THE PRIMARY MEANING OF WHY I CHOSE THE TITLE.

BUT I WASN'T SMART ENOUGH TO REALIZE THAT ABOUT SIX OTHER PEOPLE HAVE CHOSEN THE SAME TITLE INCLUDING ALAN LUTZ, WHO I THINK PROBABLY DID IT FOR THE SAME REASON.

>>LORENE: YOU ARE IN VERY GOOD COMPANY THEN.

>>ALAN: YOU BET.

>>LORENE: SO WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS BOOK AND PERHAPS INADVERTENTLY, AN IMPROVISED LIFE , IS THAT THEY ARE LIKE A SPIRITUAL JOURNEY, THEY ARE A SPIRITUAL ODYSSEY AND PARTICULARLY IN OUT OF MY MIND THESE ARE A CHRONICAL OF MIRACLES THAT YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED AND YOU JUST PRESENT THEM FROM THE FOUNDATION THAT MOST OF US HAVE UP UNTIL WE ARE IN OUR 30S.

WE THINK WE KNOW EVERYTHING, WE KNOW WHO WE ARE, WE HAVE BEEN PROPAGANDIZED, WE LOOK AT THINGS ACCORDING TO OUR BELIEFS AND THEN IF WE ARE PERCEPTIVE, WE START NOTICING THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT DON'T FIT THOSE BELIEFS AND YOU WRITE ABOUT A LOT OF THEM.

AND YOU WRITE REALLY WELL.

>>ALAN: THANK YOU.

IT JUST POURS OUT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT COMES FROM, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM BUT IT IS FINE WITH ME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE FOUND IS OVER THE YEARS WHEN I HAVE TALKED TO JUST PASSERSBY OR PEOPLE I JUST MEET UP WITH ABOUT THESE KIND OF THINGS AND THEY SAY LISTEN EVERYBODY HAS A STORY THAT THEY CAN TELL AND IT DOESN'T FIT INTO THE NORMAL PATTERN OF THINGS.

BUT MOST OF THEM FILE IT AWAY INTO PARTS OF THEIR BRAIN WHERE THEY THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A FANTASY, THEY MIGHT HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF NOT THINKING ABOUT IT, THEY ARE AFRAID THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THINK THAT THEY ARE CRAZY.

BUT ONCE THEY ARE CONFRONTED WITH IT BY SOMEBODY WHO NOT JUST BELIEVES IN IT BUT HAS EXPERIENCED THINGS LIKE THIS, THEN IT STARTS POURING OUT.

I DON'T THINK I HAVE EVER MET ANYBODY WHO HASN'T HAD UNIQUE EXPERIENCES WITH LIKE THIS THAT THEY JUST SEQUESTER AWAY SOMEWHERE FOR THE MOST PART.

>>LORENE: WELL, THE STORIES IN THE BOOK REFLECT YOUR INTEREST IN THINGS THAT ARE HARD TO EXPLAIN, THAT DEFIES THAT EASY EXPLANATION.

YOU HAVE HAD AN INTEREST IN CONSCIOUSNESS, MEDITATION, IN PSYCHIC HEALING, BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WHEN CONFRONTED WITH A NEW REALITY JUST SAY NO.

ONE OF THE STORIES IN THIS BOOK IS YOUR VERY OWN MOTHER.

>>ALAN: YEAH.

>>LORENE: WHO HAD A VISION, AN EXPERIENCE OF YOUR DAD AND YOU FINALLY HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO HER ABOUT THIS, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT SHE SAID?

>>ALAN: YEAH.

WELL MY MOTHER WAS INCREDIBLY MATERIALISTIC.

MY INTEREST IN EASTERN PHILOSOPHY INTERESTED HER NOT AT ALL, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT ALL.

IF I BROUGHT IT UP HER EYES WOULD GLAZE OVER, SHE DIDN'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING UNLESS YOU COULD BANG ON IT, WHICH EXCLUDED THINGS LIKE WIND AND THE WEATHER AND SUNLIGHT AND ELECTRICITY, BUT SHE DIDN'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

BUT MY FATHER DIED AND ABOUT SIX MONTHS LATER, I WAS SITTING IN HER LIVING ROOM AND WE WERE TALKING AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE WAS QUIET FOR ABOUT 15 OR 20 SECONDS WHICH WAS VERY UNLIKE HER AND THEN SHE SAID, DAD CAME TO ME LAST NIGHT.

AND I SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN DAD CAME TO YOU LAST NIGHT?

SHE SAID, HE WAS HERE IN THE LIVING ROOM AND I SAID WHAT DO YOU MEAN DAD WAS HERE IN THE LIVING ROOM?

SHE SAID HE WAS HERE, HE CAME TO CHECK UP ON ME AND I SAID, DID YOU SEE HIM AND SHE SAID, YEAH, HE WAS STANDING RIGHT OVER THERE BETWEEN WHERE I AM SITTING NOW AND THE TELEVISION SET AND I COULD SEE HIM AS CLEAR AS DAY.

SHE SAID HE LOOKED VERY CONCERNED, I SAID DID HE TALK TO YOU.

SHE SAID, NO, BUT I COULD SEE THE LOOK ON HIS FACE WAS THAT HE WAS CONCERNED FOR MY WELFARE I SAID, REALLY?

SHE SAID, YEAH, I SAID, MA, DID YOU BELIEVE THIS?

SHE SAID NOPE, END OF DISCUSSION.

THAT WAS THE END OF DISCUSSION, SHE WASN'T GOING TO BROACH THE SUBJECT, SHE WASN'T GOING TO INTRODUCE IT INTO HER CONSCIOUSNESS.

SHE WAS GOING TO FILE IT AWAY SOMEWHERE AND NOT LET IT EXPAND HER INTO UNKNOWN TERRITORY, WHICH I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DO, THEY DON'T WANT TO OPEN THOSE DOORS.

>>LORENE: ANOTHER ONE OF THE STORIES WAS WITH A WOMEN WHO HAD BEEN AN ACTUAL PRISONER IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP.

AND YOU LIKED HER SO MUCH AND IT WAS ESTHER RAAB.

>>ALAN: RAAB, YEAH.

>>LORENE: AND SHE HAD THIS OPTIMISM, THIS FAITH, THIS CHEERINESS AND THEN YOU HAD TO FIND OUT ABOUT TORTURE >>ALAN: I HAD NEVER SEEN BLINDSIDED I'VE KNOWN A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN IN THE CAMPS AND THEY USUALLY HAVE A KIND OF GREY CAST TO THEM, THEY USUALLY HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A VEIL OVER THEIR LIFE, WHICH YOU CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND.

SHE DIDN'T HAVE THAT, SHE WAS LIKE A BRIGHT LIGHT THIS ONE.

SHE HAD BEEN TO THE CAMPS, SHE HAD BEEN IN THE SOBIBOR.

ALL OF HER FAMILY HAD BEEN KILLED.

SHE WAS THIS BRIGHT SHINING LIGHT, SMILING, HAPPY WITH A WONDERFUL FAMILY, LIVED IN NEW JERSEY AND I ASKED HER ONCE I GOT TO KNOW HER.

I WAS DOING A FILM ABOUT THAT CAMP AND SHE WAS BEING PORTRAYED IN THE EVENT AND THEY HAD BROUGHT HER OVER TO YUGOSLAVIA IN ORDER TO WATCH AND BE AN EXPERT ON WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE.

SHE WAS ENJOYING HERSELF, SHE HAD BONDED WITH THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PLAYING HER AND HER FAMILY AND AS I GOT TO KNOW HER, I FINALLY HAD THE COURAGE TO SAY, YOU ARE DIFFERENT FROM ANYBODY I HAVE EVER MET WHO HAS BEEN IN THE CAMP, AND I SAID, WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE IT TO?

SHE SAID, I HAVE A COMPLETE BELIEF IN THE JUSTICE THAT IS BEING METED TO US AND MY PART IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS AND I HAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN THAT.

I SAID, YOU WERE IN THE CAMPS AND YOU MAINTAINED, DID YOU MAINTAIN IT THROUGH THE CAMPS?

SHE SAID, "YES I DID."

I SAID, WAS THERE NEVER A TIME THAT YOU DOUBTED, SHE SAID, "NO."

I SAID, NOT EVER, NOT EVEN WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING YOUR FAMILY BEING EXTERMINATED?

"NO."

AND THEN SHE LEANED FORWARD A LITTLE BIT AND SAID, "I COULDN'T."

AND A CHILL RAN DOWN MY SPINE AND WHAT SHE SAID IN THOSE TWO WORDS WAS KIND OF LIFE CHANGING IN THAT THERE WAS THE RECOGNITION THAT HAD SHE LOST HER HOLD ON THAT BELIEF FOR ONE MOMENT, HER WHOLE LIFE COULD HAVE GONE RIGHT DOWN THE DRAIN INTO A PLACE OF COMPLETE CHAOS AND DISBELIEF AND THEN A SENSE OF LOST AND TRAGEDY AND IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY LESSON IN MAINTAINING ONE'S BELIEF.

I DON'T KNOW IF SHE HAD AT THAT MOMENT IN THE CAMPS BUT SHORTLY AFTERWARDS, SHE HAD REASON TO TRUST THE FACT THAT HER BELIEF WAS MORE THAN JUST A SIMPLE WISH BUT SOMETHING BASED ON A TRUTH THAT SHE WAS ABLE TO FIND A LINK TO AS SHE WAS LEAVING THE CAMPS.

I THINK IT IS TOO LONG I THINK TO GO INTO NOW BUT IT WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY STORY THAT SHE TOLD ME, MIND BOGGLING STORY.

>>LORENE: AND THE BOOK, OUT OF MY MIND , IS FULL OF THESE MIRACLES YOU HAVE ENCOUNTERED AND THE VALUE OF MINDFULNESS.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS ALAN ARKIN, I KNOW WE ARE GOING TO BE OUT OF TIME BEFORE WE KNOW IT BUT WE ARE ONLY HALF WAY THROUGH.

SO YOU TALK ABOUT THE TRUTH THAT PEOPLE ORIENT THEIR LIVES TO, BUT YOU WERE QUESTIONING FOR MANY YEARS, WHAT IS REALLY TRUE AND YOU HAVE COME UP AND THIS IS WHAT IS SO ENDEARING ABOUT YOU, YOU SAID, "I GOT TWO TRUISMS."

DO YOU WANT TO SAY THEM OR DO YOU WANT TO ME TO SAY THEM.

>>ALAN: GO AHEAD.

>>LORENE: OKAY.

FIRST ONE, EVERYTHING CHANGES.

>>ALAN: YES.

>>LORENE: THE SECOND ONE, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TOO MUCH GARLIC.

AND SO THIS IS WHAT YOU BRING, YOU BRING THE BALANCE OF THE HUMAN AND THE COSMIC AND PEOPLE JUST OPEN UP THEIR HEARTS TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO BRING BECAUSE IT IS ALWAYS WITH THAT JOYOUS TOUCH OF HUMANITY.

I THANK YOU FOR THAT.

>>ALAN: WELL IT IS NOT AS IF IT IS MY IDEA, THE IDEA THAT EVERYTHING CHANGES.

WHEN THEY SAY IN THE EAST THEY TALK ABOUT MAYA.

YOU WILL HEAR A LOT FROM PEOPLE IN THE BUDDHIST FAITH OR HINDUISM THAT THIS IS ALL AN ILLUSION.

WHAT THEY MEAN BY THAT IS IT IS NOT THAT THIS IS NOT REAL, BUT WHAT THEY MEAN AND WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN, ONE IS UNDERLINING THAT WORD IS THE IDEA OF TRANSITION, THAT IT IS ALL TRANSITORY.

THAT THIS IS NOT GOING TO STAY, THAT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO HANG ON TO IS NOT GOING TO BE THERE FOR YOU WHEN YOU POSSIBLY MOST NEED IT, THAT YOU BETTER HAVE SOMETHING ELSE IN YOUR LIFE TO RELY ON OTHER THAN THINKING THAT THE NEXT CAR OR THIS HOUSE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A BRICK HOUSE, IS NOT GOING TO PROTECT YOU ULTIMATELY.

>>LORENE: AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE LEARNED FROM YOUR MEDITATIONS IS ABOUT THE IDEA OF LIVING EACH DAY METICULOUSLY AND I WOULD LIKE TO SWITCH A LITTLE BIT TO YOUR BOOK, AN IMPROVISED LIFE , BECAUSE I SAID TO YOU, "WHAT IS IMPROVISATION?"

YOU SAID, DOING SOMETHING ON THE SPUR OF THE MOMENT WITH WHATEVER MATERIALS ARE AT HAND.

IF YOU ARE METICULOUS TO THE MOMENT, THE FUTURE WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF.

AND SO YOU DID A LOT OF WORK WITH IMPROVISATION, BOTH AS A COMEDIC FORM AND AN ART FORM AND TEACHING CLASSES, BUT THERE WAS A REVELATION THAT CAME TO ME THAT YOUR CLASSES SOMETIMES WOULD WORK THROUGH AN IMPROVISATION AND END IN A VERY TRAGIC, SAD, SITUATION.

AND THEY WOULD SAY, OH NO, WE CAN'T LEAVE IT LIKE THIS AND YOU WOULD SAY, WHAT DO YOU DO NEXT, YOU MAKE UP YOUR NEXT SCENE, WHAT WOULD THESE PEOPLE DO, HOW WAS THAT RECEIVED?

>>ALAN: WELL, IT WAS A SHOCK, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT CAME FROM.

IT CAME OUT OF ONE DAY IN AN IMPROVISATION BEING SO DEPRESSED AS A RESULT OF WHAT I WAS WATCHING THAT I JUST COULDN'T STAND IT, I COULDN'T LEAVE IT LIKE THAT.

SO I ASKED THIS PERSON WHAT IS THE NEXT SCENE AFTER THIS AND THEY WERE SHOCKED AS I WAS HEARING MYSELF SAY IT, THEY WERE SHOCKED AT HEARING IT.

THEY SAID, "I DON'T KNOW."

SO I SAID, LET'S TAKE IT TO THE NEXT STEP, WHAT'S THE NEXT POSSIBLE THING FOR THIS PERSON, LET'S NOT LEAVE THEM IN A STATE OF DESPAIR.

AND I KEPT DOING SCENE AFTER SCENE WITH THIS PERSON UNTIL THEY CAME TO AN ENDING THAT SHOWED THEM THAT LIFE HAD POSSIBILITY AND A POSITIVE FUTURE.

AND IT WAS REVELATORY FOR THE PERSON AND REVELATORY FOR ME, BUT NOW THAT I THINK OF IT, IT DIDN'T OCCUR TO ME UNTIL THIS MOMENT, BUT IT CAME OUT OF A WORKSHOP I HAD DONE WITH A DREAM THERAPIST WHO ENDED UP BEING A DEAR FRIEND AND I HAD A DREAM, I CAME TO HER AND SAID, GOD IT WAS A TERRIBLY DEPRESSING DREAM.

SHE SAID, LET'S CHANGE IT AND IT SEEMED TO ME THAT IT WAS A SHOCK, I SAID, YOU CAN'T CHANGE A DREAM AND SHE SAID, WHY NOT?

AND I REALIZED THAT THERE IS SOMETHING IN ONE'S CONSCIOUSNESS THAT THINKS THAT YOUR DREAM IS SACROSANCT IN SOME WAY BUT IT IS NOT, YOU INVENTED IT, YOU CAN CHANGE IT AND YOU CAN FIX IT.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT WAS WORKING ON ME IN THAT IMPROVISATION SESSION, YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR DREAMS, YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE, YOU CAN CHANGE EVERYTHING, YOU HAVE TO, IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

>>LORENE: WELL THAT IS SUCH AN EMPOWERING MESSAGE BECAUSE PEOPLE ADOPT A ROLE OF VICTIM OR WARRIOR OR SOMETHING AND WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP THAT MASK IN FRONT OF US, WE CAN LAY THAT MASK DOWN.

LET ME EXTEND THIS A LITTLE BIT.

YOU GIVE ADVICE TO WRITERS AND TO FILMMAKERS, YOU TELL THEM JUST DO IT, DON'T TAKE A CLASS, DON'T, YOU KNOW, AGONIZE OVER IT, DON'T APPRENTICE FOR 20 YEARS, JUST DO IT.

>>ALAN: IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, SPIT IT OUT.

>>LORENE: AND THAT'S WHY IT'S SO FUNNY TO ME THAT YOU DON'T CONSIDER YOURSELF A WRITER.

I DO CONSIDER YOU AN EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT AUTHOR.

SO THIS LIVING EACH DAY METICULOUSLY, THAT'S A REAL CHALLENGE.

>>ALAN: YEAH.

>>LORENE: YOU HAVE MEDITATED 50 YEARS TO GET TO THAT POINT.

>>ALAN: I CAN'T SAY THAT I AM THERE, YOU NEVER SAY YOU ARE THERE.

THINGS ARE CERTAINLY A LOT BETTER THAN THEY WERE.

I REMEMBER ASKING MY FIRST TEACHER I SAID HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE GROWN, THE TEACHER WOULD TELL ME THAT I HAD GROWN.

I DON'T SENSE ANY GROWTH PARTICULARLY.

HE WOULD NO I SEE MORE, I SAID HOW CAN YOU TELL WHEN YOU HAVE GROWN, HE SAYS WELL THE EASIEST WAY TO TELL IS BY SEEING THE WAY PEOPLE REACT TO YOU.

AND AT LOOKING AT THAT I REALIZED THAT PEOPLE WERE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH ME THAN I FELT THAT THEY HAD BEEN IN THE EARLIER YEARS OF MY EXISTENCE AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD GAUGE.

>>LORENE: WELL, JUST ONE LAST THING ABOUT IMPROV THAT YOU TAUGHT ME, WAS THAT IT IS AN ART FORM THAT GIVES YOU ROOM TO FAIL.

AND WE HAVE ALL FOUND OUT THE HARD WAY THAT FAILURE IS OFTEN HOW WE GROW AND LEARN BUT MOST ART FORMS YOU HAVE GOT TO AIM FOR PERFECTION AND THERE IS NO ROOM FOR FAILURE.

>>ALAN: BUT THAT'S THE BRAINS OF THIS CULTURE NOW, I DON'T THINK IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT.

I THINK THIS CULTURE IS SO "GET IT RIGHT NOW" AND THEN THAT PEOPLE ARE TERRIFIED OF FALLING ON THEIR FACE.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE YOU LEARN EXCEPT BY FAILING AND GETTING UP AGAIN.

THEY WILL TELL YOU IN THE EAST THAT'S IS WHY WE ARE ON THE PLANET A LOT EASTERN FOLK WILL SAY YOU ARE HERE ON THIS PLANET TO FAIL AND GROW.

YOUR FAILURES ARE WHAT YOU LEARN FROM, WHAT ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO LEARN FROM?

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THEIR FAILURES OR ASHAMED OF THEM.

THERE IS AN ANECDOTE I TELL IN IMPROVISED LIFE ABOUT A GREAT LESSON I LEARNED FROM SPENCER TRACY ABOUT FAILURE AND ABOUT GUILT AND ABOUT SHAME.

I DO A VERY SHORT VERSION OF IT NOW.

BUT THERE IS A MOVIE IN WHICH HE MAKES A PUBLIC CONFESSION ABOUT HAVING FAILED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND IN HIS CONFESSION AND HIS MEA CULPA HE IS VERY ANGRY AT HIMSELF.

ANGRY AND I SAID HE IS NOT GOING TO DO IT AGAIN THAT WHAT YOU SEE MOST IN MEA CULPAS IN THE SENSE OF PERSONAL FAILURE IS THE SHAME AND A KIND OF SHEEP DOG, HANG DOG LOOK, OH I AM A BAD PERSON, I DID A TERRIBLE THING, I APOLOGIZE.

THAT PERSON I HAVE A FEELING IS NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO GROW AS HE IS SO ANGRY AT HIMSELF.

I FELT THAT THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO REALLY GRAB HOLD AND CHANGE.

AND THAT WAS KIND OF REVELATORY TO ME.

HIS CONFESSION WAS NOT LOOKING FOR AN APOLOGY BUT FOR THE MAN FROM HIMSELF AND THAT WAS A BIG LESSON FOR ME.

>>LORENE: WELL THAT IS A VERY POWERFUL STORY, THANK YOU.

SO THAT REMINDS ME WE ARE IN SUCH TROUBLED TIMES, THAT MINDFULNESS, AN UNDERSTATEMENT.

>>ALAN: YOU MEAN THE FACT THAT BECAUSE TRUMP AT THIS VERY MOMENT IS BEING IMPEACHED FOR THE SECOND TIME DO YOU, YOU DON'T THINK THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

SO WE ARE TRYING TO LIVE WITHOUT ILLUSION AND EMBRACE REALITY BUT WHAT I LOVE ABOUT YOU IS YOU REPRESENT SUCH A BALANCING ACT, LIKE BETWEEN EVERYTHING CHANGES AND NEVER TOO MUCH GARLIC, TO DO METICULOUS IN THE MOMENT AND YET ACCEPT WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING, THAT'S A DIVINE BALANCING ACT.

>>ALAN: WELL, BEING METICULOUS WITH THE MOMENT I THINK INVOLVES BEING AWARE OF WHAT IS.

IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN BE METICULOUS IN THE MOMENT.

BEING AWARE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING BUT NOT SUCCUMBING TO IT.

I HAVE HAD A LOT OF GREAT TEACHERS, MY GREAT TEACHER THESE DAYS IS MY OWN CLENCH, IF I FIND MYSELF CLENCHING, I KNOW THAT THAT IS AN AREA THAT I HAVE GOT TO WORK, THAT'S A PLACE THAT NEEDS ATTENTION, THAT'S A PLACE WHERE I AM HIDING FEAR.

>>LORENE: THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED FROM YOUR BOOK, TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE TENSION.

>>ALAN: YEAH, THAT'S A NICE PHRASE.

>>LORENE: YES, IT WORKS.

>>ALAN: WELL SAID.

>>LORENE: WE ARE ALMOST OUT OF TIME AND I WANT TO TELL OUR AUDIENCE WHO WANTS TO HEAR MORE FROM YOU THAT YOU WILL BE SPEAKING ABOUT THE BOOK AT COLLECTED WORKS BOOKSTORE IN SANTA FE ON JANUARY 19 AT SIX O'CLOCK AT NIGHT.

IT WILL BE LIVECAST ON THEIR FACEBOOK PAGE, COLLECTED WORKS BOOKSTORE OR ON THEIR WEBSITE COLLECTEDWORKS-BOOKSTORE.COM, BUT YOU CAN CALL ME, LORENE, AT INFO@REPORTFROMSANTAFE AND I WILL BE SURE THAT YOU GET A LINK TO THAT, BECAUSE PEOPLE REALLY WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY AND I AM SO GRATEFUL THAT YOU HAVE COME TODAY.

>>ALAN: IT IS SO NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN, LORENE AND TO TALK TO YOU.

>>LORENE: GOOD, WELL I HOPE WE CAN DO THIS AGAIN SOON.

DO YOU HAVE ONE LAST WORD FOR OUR AUDIENCE BEFORE WE SIGN OFF?

>>ALAN: YES, ALWAYS, NO WAIT A MINUTE.

NEVER, THAT'S IT.

ONE OR THE OTHER.

>>LORENE: THERE IS THE BALANCE.

WELL WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH ALAN ARKIN ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK, OUT OF MY MIND, NOT QUITE A MEMOIR .

THIS IS A BELOVED BOOK TO ME AND I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WRITING IT.

>>ALAN: OH, IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU, LORENE AND MUCH LOVE TO YOU.

>>LORENE: OKAY AND I HOPE WE DO THIS AGAIN SOON.

>>ALAN: LET'S.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ALAN ARKIN, YOU ARE THE BEST.

>>ALAN: BYE.

>>LORENE: AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

>>ANNOUNCER: REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NATIONAL EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NEW MEXICO, AN ORGANIZATION OF PROFESSIONALS WHO BELIEVE THAT INVESTING IN PUBLIC EDUCATION IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR STATE'S ECONOMIC FUTURE, FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM