Lori Townsend: What does it mean to be a sovereign tribe?

And what would state recognition mean for Alaska's Indigenous nations?

Unknown: What is happening is we're giving the state of Alaska an opportunity to finally once and for all recognize that we are in the same canoe, Lori Townsend: we'll discuss what equal footing of state and tribal government could look like in the future right now on Alaska Insight.

A bill in the Alaska Legislature would formally acknowledged tribes as sovereign governments by the state.

As Emily Schwing reports for Alaska Insight, Alaska Native leaders say they've waited too long to be seen as equal in the eyes of state government.

So they'll ask voters to decide.

Unknown: Hi, sir, how you doing today?

It's nice weather we're having huh?

Last week, more than 53,000 signatures were delivered to the state Division of Elections office in Anchorage for review.

Over the last few months canvassers have been collecting signatures to support a ballot initiative that would give 229 federally recognized Indigenous tribes in Alaska: state recognition.

what is happening is we're giving the state of Alaska an opportunity to finally once and for all recognize that we are in the same canoe.

Supporters say state recognition doesn't cost anything.

Instead, co-sponsors believe it could clear a path for more federal funds for the state and tribes.

For some reason there is this kind of like latent old school thinking that there's going to be some sort of divestiture of something, something is going to be excavated out or taken away, that somehow minimizes or reduces the state of Alaska, when in fact, what we're doing is not only are we adding solutions, we're adding the context of over 10,000 plus years of best practices in these homelands of Alaska.

Madam Speaker, I'm moving ask unanimous consent.

Last year, State Representative Tiffany Zulkosky, a Democrat from the Bethel region, introduced the Alaska Tribal Recognition Act in the state House.

The federal government has a special and unique relationship with tribes that through this bill the state would acknowledge in Alaska statute.

The bill faced little opposition and pass the House by a wide margin.

Republican Chris Kurka of Wasilla was one of only four lawmakers to vote against it.

I am generally a fan of local control, local government.

However, it's not clear to me at this time how much authority has been granted what the long term significance of this will be?

Alaska's Attorney General says the Alaska Tribal Recognition Act would not change legal status or authority for tribes in the state.

Governor Dunleavy hasn't commented on it.

Tribal leaders say it's a huge opportunity for the state.

You know, I think right now, there's millions of dollars that fall off the table because there's not formal tribal recognition, especially in the areas of education and public safety.

At least four federal agencies, including the Department of Education and Health and Human Services have the authority to provide additional funding to tribes that have state recognition.

It's fundamentally wrong, that we're not even recognized by the state government.

Yet they talk about us all the time.

We're in every bit of legislature, anything to do with especially rural Alaska.

But go to Anchorage, our biggest metropolitan city, and everywhere you turn our presence is there.

Nearly half of all tribes recognized by the U.S. federal Government are based here in Alaska.

According to the National Commission on State legislatures, roughly 10% of federally recognized tribes across the U.S. also have state recognition.

For Alaska Public Media, I'm Emily Schwing in Anchorage.

Lori Townsend: Joining me tonight to discuss tribal sovereignty and the relationship between tribes and other government entities is Democratic Rep. Tiffany Zulkosky of Bethel.

Also with us is 'Wáahlaal Gidáak Barbara Blake, one of the co-sponsors of the ballot initiative we just learned about an federal Indian law attorney and partner with a local office of Sonosky, Chambers law firm Lloyd Miller.

Thanks all of you for being here this evening.

RepresentativeZulkosky, we want to start with you since you were the one that introduced House Bill 123.

Last year, the Alaska Tribal Recognition Act, that bill passed the House and as of earlier this week has been referred to the State AffairsCommittee in the Senate, would this legislation serve the same purpose as the ballot initiative?

Unknown: Yeah, that's a great question.

Thanks so much, Lori, for the invitation to be here with you today.

You know, this effort to recognize tribes has been an ongoing effort for decades across Alaska.

And I'm sure, as your team has been doing reporting on it, you've talked with a lot of Alaska Native leaders about this.

I think what we, you know, our goal and and I would defer to with all doc to describe it a little bit more.

But House Bill 123 is really the framework of the ballot initiative.

So they're very complimentary with respect to what they do.

And ultimately, at the end of the day, what House Bill 123 does, is codify the trust relationship that already exists between the federal government and Alaska tribes.

So there's no expansion or change under state law that are any unique and additional privileges that tribes don't already enjoy.

So really, the intention behind this bill, is to bring about relationship building at a time when Alaska is really looking to advance opportunities for extended partnerships.

In, you know, in our current environmental framework.

Lori Townsend: What, what do you think the chances are of it passing in this session?

The, there's a lot to get done.

Lawmakers are have the state budget and long term solutions to the Permanent Fund.

Do you think that this will be a priority for legislators?

Unknown: I think it's hard to speculate.

But I would hope so, you know, as I mentioned, this, this effort has been ongoing.

For decades, the Alaska judicial branch has recognized our highest courts have recognized the unique relationship that tribes have with the federal government.

The executive branch under the Walker administration has acknowledged the unique relationship that tribes have with the federal government.

And it's this is really an opportunity for the legislative branch as we set policies to do the same.

I think what's really important to remember about this particular effort, is it's very broad.

And it really, it really hopes to bring people together regardless of political background, regardless of perspective on, you know, different dynamics and issues.

I think I think what we saw in the House was overwhelming support 35.

Yes, votes to advance it to the Senate, an originally brought forward in the 31st Legislature, by a Republican lawmaker from South Anchorage.

There's a lot of consensus behind simply recognizing the unique relationship that tribes have in the state of Alaska.

And I think House Bill 123 is an opportunity to bring lawmakers together.

And I hope that would be the sense that we have this session.

Lori Townsend: The amount of signatures the ballot proposition version needed was just over 36,000, and supporters turned in more than 53,000, significant number more than is needed.

What does this say to you about the ballot initiative effort?

And do you think that may help prompt lawmakers to support the current legislation?

Unknown: Sure, great question.

You know, I think that we've seen in legislative committees that have considered this, this piece of legislation, we've seen broad consensus among Alaskans.

Again, like I mentioned, we saw lawmakers from across party lines from across the state from different backgrounds, voting in favor of advancing this legislation.

And I think that rings true and it holds true for Alaskans who've come out and turned out to put their pen to paper to say, this recognition is important.

It's valuable, it advances the the vision and understanding of what tribes bring to the state of Alaska, I think it's important to understand, as Alaska grapples with fiscal uncertainty and looks at a time when we have to really evaluate the programs that we're able to offer Alaskans that tribes have a similar vested interest in the well being and health of the tribal citizens that they serve.

And so really, this work is very complimentary to the work that's done at the state level.

And I would say that the overwhelming number of the records that were smashed for How many Alaskans signed this initiative speaks to the recognition of the value that tribes bring to the state of Alaska.

And I hope lawmakers can see that and understand that moving into the 2022 session.

Lori Townsend: All right, well, thank you so much Rep. Zulkosky.

We know it's a very busy week with the legislative session underway.

So we'll let you go.

Thank you so much for your time.

I want to turn now to 'Wáahlaal Gidáak and Lloyd Miller.

Thanks, again for being here.

'Wáahlaal, if HB 123 passes and is signed into law, what would that mean for the ballot initiative?

Unknown: Well, the beauty of the ballot initiative is that the the language is so close to to HB 123.

That it it was and intentionally done so that that we wouldn't need to go to ballot it would it would be resolved within the Legislature.

You know, I think that there's a beautiful moment in this in this time to see how many people are supportive throughout Alaska who signed on to the ballot initiative to say that, yes, we want to recognize Alaska, first people and the sovereignty and the inherent sovereignty that each of them carry as the original caretakers for their communities.

And I think it's a beautiful rendition.

And if the Legislature could reflect that, that, that their communities and that their citizens also feel the same way.

I think we'll we'll go a long way in this state.

Lori Townsend: And talk a little bit for people who may be confused by these kinds of dual efforts about the why why a bill was introduced last session, and then a very similar ballot initiative was undertaken, was there concern that the bill would just languish?

And so that's why there was a ballot effort.

Unknown: Absolutely.

You know, that the Senate had the opportunity last session to take this up, and they didn't.

And as Representative Zulkosky has mentioned, you know, this effort has been tried for more than a decade to try and get something resolved in the legislature to say that we have these these two sovereigns, both the state and the and the tribal governments operating in our within our boundaries.

And it's important to recognize the sovereigns that are contributing to every citizen of Alaska.

But yet the legislature has yet to move on it.

So we felt it was a necessary step at this time to really move in a direction that put the vote in the hands of all of our citizens to stand behind this.

We didn't have much hope at the time, when we were engaged in this process that the legislature would move on it.

So that's why we, we decided to head down this path.

Lori Townsend: Alright, thank you so much for getting us started there.

Lloyd, I want to turn to you now, acknowledging the sovereignty of tribal governments, by states in a formal way, I believe means that the states are recognizing that there is equal footing for the state and the tribe.

If that's a correct assessment, describe what equal footing means.

I hope you're I'm sorry, you're muted, Lloyd.

There you go.

Unknown: It means that the state of Alaska will engage with the tribal governments of Alaska on an equal basis, in the same way that the state deals with other states that the state deals with other nations.

The state would deal with Alaska tribes.

It's really something that shouldn't be controversial.

Alaska tribes exist.

They have existed since time immemorial, their recognition has been affirmed by the courts.

They've been, their recognition has been affirmed in Congress by successive presidents, federal courts and state courts.

What's curious is when individuals are confronted with a situation where Alaska tried to exist, refrained from accepting that reality.

And then one has to ask well, why would they do that?

I can't probe into people's hearts or minds about why they would oppose it.

All I can say is that the presence of Alaska tribes is a legal and historic fact.

And the sooner that that fact is embraced, the sooner a more productive relationship can occur between the state of Alaska and its constituent tribes.

And there are in Alaska, 229 federally recognized tribes, it's 40% of all of the federally recognized tribes in America.

The other states, some other states have recognized tribes, as was described in your opening 10% of the tribes also enjoy state recognition.

This would make it 50% of the tribes in America that would be a wonderful, historic, first in in American history, and I think a place where Alaska wants to be since it has the largest proportion of Native American tribes in the United States.

Lori Townsend: Why in the story, Going into the program about the ballot initiative Representative Chris Kurka of Wasilla said in in his vote against the bill that he is generally a fan of local government.

But he said it was not clear to him how much authority is being granted.

And Lloyd, the bill would change nothing legally between the state and the tribe, because the state really has no ability to either grant or take away government authority from a federally recognized tribe, correct?

Unknown: That's correct.

And I think the more that the representative studies the bill, I hope, the more comforted, he will be in acknowledging that there is no transfer of authority to Alaska tribes are occurring in this bill, it is simply a recognition that the tribes exist, much as one would recognize that an individual sitting in front of you exists, that doesn't mean that you are transferring power to that person, it means that you're willing to deal with that person, on a person to person basis, this would be the same tribes and the state would be able to engage with one another, on a government to government basis, each with their own authority from their own sources of authority.

Lori Townsend: All right, thank you.

'Wáahlaal, I want to go back to you now, given these facts that we were just discussing, drill down a little bit on what you see as the most important elements here.

What will this do to help Alaska tribes?

If it passes?

How do you see that?

Unknown: I think there's there's a two fold factor.

Number one, for me, it's it's that recognition that yes, there was 229, sovereign governments that existed in predated the state of Alaska predated the territory of Alaska, that there are these beautiful, sophisticated forms of government that took care of every community member here, prior to others stepping foot in Alaska, recognizing our Native people, our native governments, our Native leaders, is an important factor in in just building up every single Alaska Native person and and our children and helping us to embrace and really celebrate these beautiful, rich, diverse cultures that exist here in this state, I think and secondary to that.

And it was touched on in many different forums, including this one, that the state of Alaska and tribes are consistently in litigation with each other, the state of Alaska, usually being the one to bring litigation against tribes.

In those situations, everybody loses everybody's using resources, everybody's having to consistently spend their time that could be could be had, helping citizens of our tribes helping citizens of the state of Alaska, but instead have to spend costly hours in litigation in in court over instances of when tribal recognition comes into play.

And I think that the more we can free up that time, and the more we can free up resources, especially given the state of our budget, the better off we're going to be as citizens of Alaska and citizens of the tribes we belong to.

Lori Townsend: All right.

So it sounds like you see this as the having the potential to take some of the contention out of the relationship between tribal governments and the state.

Tribal leaders here, say millions of federal education, housing, labor, Health and Human Services dollars are being left on the table, because the state has not acknowledged tribal sovereignty.

How would passing the act change that?

So those federal dollars could come to Alaska?

Unknown: Well, you know, we, and this might be a better question for Lloyd, but we're a public law 280 state, which means we shared jurisdiction, and there's an opportunity when you share jurisdiction over over tribal citizens.

When you are in a relationship with the state of Alaska, and with any state, for that matter, between your tribes in between the states, and in a public law 280 situation, it leaves us in kind of this dichotomy of okay, well, normally we could access these dollars, but now we can't, because the state of Alaska has not chosen to acknowledge or recognize us.

And I'll say this, that it's, it's a ebb and flow in terms of the state agencies that have a requirement and do accept federal dollars on behalf of tribes here in our state that does actually already take place.

But whether or not they use those dollars directly for tribal citizens is a completely different story.

So I'll say that we're not missing out on all the programs that that there are some that are coming into this state.

There are some agencies that that do have consultation plans in place place with working with our tribes.

It's just a matter of it's not a holistic directive coming from the state of Alaska or from the executive branch.

Lori Townsend: And do you see benefits for the state government and non-Native Alaskans if this passes?

Unknown: Absolutely, I think our healthcare systems in Alaska are a great example of the ways of the ways that this benefits everyday Alaskans.

Our tribal health care facilities operate in almost every single community in Alaska.

And when they operate in lieu of any other health facility being in those communities, most of those those health clinics, those tribal health clinics, see Native patients, of course, the tribal citizens, but also see non natives as well.

And operating in those instances of very remote.

We know we live in Alaska and majority of our communities are rural, they're off the road system.

And being able to provide services for every single citizen who exists in those communities is something that our tribe takes on.

And it's not segregating out who's going to receive services versus who's not when it comes to health care, because we know that it's, it's our duty to care for everybody in that community.

Because when you lift up one person, you lift up all.

And so it's a great example of what could could take place, the more robust systems that can be lifted up.

Lori Townsend: Alright, thank you for that clarification.

Lloyd, turning back to you.

If there is the potential as we've been discussing for more federal funds, when states recognized tribal governments formally, why then do you think the percentage is so low in the lower 48?

Only 10% of tribes have this relationship with state governments?

Do some tribes not care about that state recognition because they have the federal relationship?

Or do they meet too much resistance to try it?

Unknown: I think as Barbara points out it's unique to tribes that are in public law 280 states it is in that subset of the 35 states that have federally recognized tribes within them.

But there's only a subset of those states that are subject to public law 280.

Public Law 280 is a federal law, which transferred federal jurisdiction in certain Tribal Affairs to the local states.

The problem in Alaska is that the the implementation of public law 280 has created a vacuum particularly in public safety.

I was thinking about Barbara's description of the health care system in Alaska that is the envy all across Indian country, the health care system in Alaska, the Alaska Native health care system has benefited the entire Alaska population, native and non native alike, that same thing needs to happen in the public safety domain, because the single greatest concern for Alaska native tribes at the local level is public safety.

If the state recognition that's champion in this bill or in the referendum comes to be law, then there is an ability to engage in partnerships and to access streams of funding that are currently inaccessible, that would permit the State and the Tribes to work together to improve public safety and Alaska Native villages.

And that's a good for everybody in the state, and all of the residents of those villages, native and non native alike.

That's why this recognition is such a linchpin for future cooperation between the two governments.

Lori Townsend: Even after Congress cleared up the legal ambiguity of whether Alaska tribes were sovereign in the mid 1990s, there was still litigation against the federally recognized Indian tribe list act that did acknowledge Alaska tribal status, you fought some of these challenges.

Why do states and other entities bring them?

It sounds from what our discussion has been like this is a win all the way around?

What is their stated concern about acknowledging sovereign tribes?

Is it just the equal footing that concerns them?

Or what do you hear from those who challenge these efforts?

Unknown: Well, I think people's motivations are mixed.

Some of it comes from hostility to Alaska Native peoples some of it comes from a misplaced concern that the state somehow loses authority if tribes are recognized as having authority, not appreciating that it's actually a win win situation for Alaska as a whole.

people's motivations vary, and why they continue to oppose the recognition and status of Alaska tribe.

And you're correct.

Today, there are people who oppose the federal recognition, even though it has occurred, both by the President and by Congress.

There are those in Alaska who still oppose it would still like to litigate that issue.

I really embrace the concept that we can move past litigation, have this issue resolved, and think about how to work constructively between tribal governments and the state of Alaska rather than destructively through litigation.

Lori Townsend: All right.

Well, thank you.

That time goes way too quickly.

Thank you so much to my guests for being with us this evening.

For the supporters of the Alaska Tribal Recognition Act, acknowledging the legitimacy of tribal governments and clarifying self determination for them, means respecting the long standing government structures of Alaska's first people.

It doesn't diminish any of the state government's rights or responsibilities, but could provide a path for increased cooperation and state/tribal government relationships for the future.

That's it for this edition of Alaska Insight.

Be sure to tune in daily to your local public radio station for Alaska Morning News and Alaska News Nightly every weeknight.

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We'll be back next week.

Thanks for joining us this evening.

I'm Lori Townsend.

Good night.