(soft music) - I'm Norm Silverstein, and I'm glad you're with us today because we're in very good company with Albert Paley.

Albert is one of the world's best known sculptors.

His artwork is free flowing and unique, sometimes gigantic.

We're fortunate here in Rochester to be able to see his work at the Memorial Art Gallery on the campus of RIT and in front of the Bausch & Lomb Building, as well as many other places around town.

Albert Paley is the only sculptor to win a lifetime achievement award from the American Institute of Architects.

He's been described as a boundary pusher, not just because of the size of his sculptures, but because of his architectural sensibilities and his unique designs.

He's made his home and his studio here in Rochester, and today we're very pleased to welcome Albert Paley.

Albert, we had some time to work with you recently when WXXI chronicled your public arts display on Park Avenue in New York City.

You know, a terrific and very impressive exhibition.

At the same time, you've also had a retrospective at the Corcoran Gallery in Washington and an exhibition at Chester Wood in Massachusetts.

So we wanna know, how do you get all the energy for this?

- Oh, well, first of all, there's quite a momentum 'cause I've been doing this for quite some time.

So inertia plays quite a role in that.

Plus, I'm very fortunate that I have a very good dedicated team of people with me.

I have 15 people full time that help in the physical fabrication of the work, but also in the logistics, communication and other aspects.

Some of my projects last several years.

And just trying to keep that kind of consistency and follow up, it takes more than I can focus on.

My main concern is the development of the form and the evolution of my artwork, and luckily I have good people that take care of the other aspects.

- You have so many pieces right here in Rochester.

I mean, if people don't know you personally, they know your art.

We mentioned Bausch & Lomb headquarters, the campus of RIT, the railings on the Main Street Bridge.

How does it feel to have your own retrospective in your hometown?

- It's very nice.

I mean, one of the reasons, initially I came to Rochester to teach at RIT and since that time, that was in 1969.

And since that time I've been very fortunate of the response of the community, my relationship with other cultural institutions like Memorial Art Gallery and over the years the community has been quite supportive and so it's made a very constructive environment for me.

- Well, you've made this your hometown now, but you grew up in Philadelphia.

- [Albert] Yes.

- What was it that got you interested in art in the first place?

- Art was never part of my family culture whatsoever.

And the only involvement I had was through the school system, and one thing led to the other and I ended up going to do formal art school training at Tyler School of Art, part of Temple University.

And to me it was a total revelation.

I had no idea what the process of art was about or the personal psyche involved or anything like that.

So it was, it ended up being a real transformation for me and after experiencing that there, I just never wanted to leave that environment.

So I created a studio and which allowed me to experience all of that.

- Was there a professor, someone special who sat down with you and said, you've got a great talent in this area?

- Well, actually it was a, at that time still is, it was a very, very good program.

And besides functioning as a student, I also became a graduate assistant.

I started teaching there as well.

I taught night school, and so I was really, you know, embraced there.

I've always been, I guess kind of an achiever and I was competitive with my professors rather than my peers.

And so that became the professional competition that I was involved in.

So it was a very formidable period in my life.

- And it was teaching that brought you here to Rochester?

- Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

And my master's degree was over in 1969.

I applied for various jobs.

Actually, I had nine positions offered to me.

And the reason I selected Rochester, it was the most professional program in my discipline.

So I came here initially to teach Goldsmithing, actually in the School for American Crafts at RIT.

- Now, you mentioned Goldsmithing, you've really had two almost different careers as an artist.

You started out in jewelry design and now you're a sculptor.

And you've said that some of this was influenced by the fact that you didn't feel you got the respect you thought that that jewelry should get as an art form.

- There's many reasons why I changed.

I was very much dedicated to being a goldsmith.

At that time, museums really weren't taking it seriously.

There wasn't museum shows.

There wasn't critical writing happening.

And the work that I did do, it was very elaborate, and therefore, the individual that would wear it, it would only be worn once or twice a year.

And so I didn't feel that I was engaging with the public.

When I started to get involved with larger scale work, for me, there was a continual interchange with the community and a public work will give, you know, enrichment to the public and it'll do that.

So my kind of social responsibility was one that was made more evident with a larger scale work.

- Your wife Francis, is an artist in her own right?

How did you meet Francis?

- Actually, I met her as a quasi professionally.

She was involved with metal work as well in California.

And I met her during a lecture tour that I had in the early 70s.

And so we've been together since then.

- Do you ever bounce ideas off each other on your own artwork or do you try to keep that separate?

- The development of one's work is a very, very personal and very intimate as far as one's own response.

And as much as you truly know somebody, you feel, you know somebody, the intimacy of the art process and another artist engaging that we're very, very aware not to influence.

Because when you're really dealing with the creative process, you are totally open and totally vulnerable, and it's very important that you draw your conclusions from what's innate to that individual.

And so we're very cautious not to create a situation that might be influential.

We're supportive of one another in many, many ways, but when it comes to actual quality of the work, that's an area that really should be sacrosanct.

- And yet you talk about how you have a team that you work with.

- [Albert] Well, in my studio, people have a romantic notion of an artist that it's an individual that works independent of any outside resources and whatever.

But in reality it's a, for me, it's a group organization.

There's so much that has to happen.

There's feasibility studies.

There's financial analysis, there's structural engineering, there's the contract work, there's publications, so many things that happen.

And then even with the physicality of the work, you know, the welding, the grinding, and a lot of processes are more than one person processes.

So there is an engagement.

I think what's first of all is what we have is very unique, the scale of our operation.

Most the sculptures have one or two people working with them.

I have a team of 15.

And so there's a whole organizational structure to that.

Having said that, artists work in different ways.

Some artists will say, generally, I want this kind of thing.

And the other people interpret or they feel that they're interpreting that individual's vision.

I am very specific, whatever develops form, the contour, the line, the shaping, I'm directly involved with that.

So there's no interpretation on my people's end.

- Well, you're right about the romantic notion people have of a studio.

I've seen several of your studios in Rochester, the most recently in the Cascade District.

- [Albert] Yes.

- And then the current one on Lyle Avenue.

Now that is different, would you describe it?

- Yeah, my new facility off of Lyle used to be the old Delco plant, and we have 50,000 square foot in part of this complex.

It's the largest studio I've ever had.

It's a fantastic place to work.

I mean, it has tall ceilings.

We have an outside area where we can work.

There's a separate area for display and also where the offices are, and yes, it's a fantastic space.

- Well, I have seen it, and you're right, I was kind of blown away the first time I walked in, two stories, 50,000 square feet and those huge cranes.

- [Albert] Right.

- And just, and all of the welding equipment that you use.

You're well known for your steel ribbons.

How do you create those?

- Well, I mean, many sculptors, the way they might design, they could do a drawing or a Marquette, and then they can go to industry and they say, hey, or build this, very similar to what an architect might do.

I mean, an architect doesn't lay bricks or put in windows, but they'll do the design and somebody else will execute it.

It so happens the form context that I've developed with metalworking is pretty much within an organic context with, you know, curved intersecting lines, a lot of transition and whatever.

And it doesn't lend itself to very geometric application.

So therefore the type of forming that has to happen really can't do an industry.

And so we have built machinery and also I've trained people for that forming.

We have a 200 ton hydraulic press that can actually form four inch thick steel plate.

And some of the very tight applications, we use heat.

So the hotter the steel becomes, the more pliable it becomes.

So we go through a whole variety of processes to get to the end result.

- Well, you mentioned heat and obviously sometimes this is dangerous work.

You survived one serious accident a number of years ago.

How did that change you?

- Well, yeah, it was about 12 years ago.

I was in a contained area and there was a propane leak and I was in a propane explosion, and 35% of my body was third degree.

And I was on life support for quite some time.

How did it change me?

You become much more vigilant.

Safety is always a high priority in my studio.

And luckily nobody's been seriously injured except for myself.

But I think anybody that goes through a major health situation where there's a prognosis for to be bad or even death, that what you come out with or what I came out with was incredible gratitude, that it wasn't as bad as it was.

And so therefore, I just function in a very grateful context that I'm able to function and continue.

- You could be doing this just about anywhere in the country.

What's kept you in Rochester?

- Oh, well, it's initially, as I said, I came up here to teach and I was working at that time independently as my studio grew and I hired employees.

And Rochester has always been, one, very supportive through the, I was at Rochester Institute and also I taught at Brockport as well, and I'm still affiliated with RIT as Artists in Residence.

But Rochester has been, it's a very unique community, because of Kodak, for instance, Kodak used to outsource a lot.

So there's a lot of businesses, small businesses that used to support Kodak's activity.

And with our subcontracting, we could plug into that, whether it's machinists or steel suppliers or people involved in design or whatever.

And you know, it's not that big.

You can get on a plane, you can leave, you can come back.

So it's been very, very comfortable here.

I mean, I've always thought about, you know, New York City or Chicago, but just trying to function there with the type of overhead, the turnover of people and all that.

I mean, Rochester is very, very stable as far as employees and support system.

So it's been, it's been very positive and that's why I'm here.

- I heard you had a long relationship with Klein Steel that back in the days when you did have to count the pennies slip, that they would help you out with recycled steel or.

- Well, not that they would help me out.

I couldn't afford to buy new steel, so I used to go to their junkyard and buy steel to heat it and shape it and do all of that.

And that was my first connection with Klein Steel.

And over the years, they are our main supplier, and Klein started actually as a recycling or basically a junkyard, and then they became a steel supplier, and now they do international projects.

And also a lot of the equipment that they have now, laser cutting and water jet cutting.

And a lot of the things that we use, our development has kind of been parallel with theirs, because as technology develops in the art field, we try to embrace that and incorporate it into our work.

So, you know, it's been a long-term relationship.

- You also mentioned your long-term relationship of RIT and, of course, another other artist who's long been involved is Wendell Castle And frequently people, they mention you in the same breath as probably the two best known artists from Rochester.

- Oh, yeah, no, I've known, I've known Wendell even before I moved here.

Yeah, and there were, when we were involved in our initial development, our careers there used, the forums used to be mainly in university campuses, and they would have, they would have seminars and there would be a person from each field.

So there'd be a ceramicist, a metalworker, a woodworker, whatever it might be.

And usually it was Wendell and I paired up and I was from Philadelphia, he was from Rochester.

And then we taught together for many years as well.

- Was there one project that you looked back on as being maybe your seminal work or something that really influenced you from that point on?

- Well, it's interesting, the things that have changed my kind of career trajectory has not been me, because for me, the work is very consistent.

I mean, the scale changes and all of that, but the integrity, the application is all the same, but it's outside sources, primarily.

The first major commission that I had in the public arena were gates for the Smithsonian.

And because they were gates for the Smithsonian, they were publicized and people saw them, another architect would see that they would commission something else.

So that became a pivotal work.

Now, I've done other gates I feel that are just as good, but they're in front of maybe somebody's wine cellar that very few people see.

So the synergy that happens with communication and public awareness, it happens almost outside of what I do.

But obviously that's the environment I'm in and it influences things.

Yeah, so probably that was one of the most, the most pivotal.

- Is there anything that was the most fun that you enjoyed the most?

- I mean, for me, the function within a creative environment to me is very, is very reinsuring and very enriching.

Besides that, I guess pretty much a perfectionist.

And there's a lot of challenge with each project, so you're always pushing things.

And when you're dealing with that kind of challenge, it's not fun, but it's kind of a growth mode that you go through.

And I mean, you mentioned the Park Avenue project.

I've done sculptures before and sculptures larger than any one of those, but as a group, we never did that many at one time.

So it was a, you know, an incredible challenge.

You know, very, very stressful.

But the studio as a whole, as an organization, was able to function on a level that we never did before.

So that was a real kind of pivotal point and very, very satisfying.

But it was not a, it wasn't an enjoyable process in any way, but.

- Well, those were 13 large sculptures over a pretty long stretch of Park Avenue.

And I understand you had to finance that yourself.

You were invited to present, but you weren't paid to do that.

- No, we were invited.

You were invited by the, there's a steering committee that they had seen the work that I had done in public and felt that I didn't have a presence in New York City.

And so they invited me to do it.

Based on the time constraint, and we had two and a half years and within that time I felt I could do X amount of sculpture, the 13 sculptures.

We had just moved into the new studio that you had mentioned, and we had no resources at all to do that.

So what we ended up doing was to look for sponsorships.

Basically, we pre-sold the work and the condition was that somebody would buy the work, but they would give us the money upfront so we could, so we could execute the body of work.

And fortunately, we sold nine out of the 13, which enabled us to successfully complete that.

- I think people who went to see that exhibit, most would be shocked to know that that was really self-financed.

Is that a statement about the way we treat art and artists in this country?

- Oh my, I'll tell you as far as, I don't know what the statistics are, but in most of the developed countries, what the government or support gives to the arts here is so little.

It is unbelievable.

It's so little and by and large, the artist or art institution has to basically fund their own dimension.

I'm sure WXXI has to do the same thing.

So yeah, it's totally different.

Totally different.

- What do you hope people come away with when they admire one of your works?

Have you ever stood by "The Sentinel" on the RIT campus and just wanted to eavesdrop on people walking by and.

- Yeah, say it more as a kind of as a curiosity.

I mean, the reason that that an artist works, hopefully, is to develop and clarify one's own vision.

And so that should be the primary focus, introspection and integrity of one's work.

But obviously, I mean, that's your private self, but also there's your social self.

And I mean, I don't know what people think about criticism, so if you stand, if you stand there next to a piece and a group of people say, "Oh, that's fantastic.

That's the best thing I've ever seen.

That's great.

I'm glad it's here."

Another group of people said, "That's horrible.

They should take it away," or whatever.

So what are you left with?

You're left with that you do something and it solicits strong opinions and the opinions differ.

If more people like it and less people, I don't know, it doesn't make any difference because the involvement of the art shouldn't be influenced by public opinion.

It should be the artist's own sense of integrity.

But also, if you look at it as well as a educational process, if you have a set set of values and a certain belief system and somebody challenges that, your first reaction is to push away.

But as part of the educational process, you go into a university or you read a book or you see something, you get new information and it changes your belief system or who you are or whatever.

And art is very much like that.

Especially if it's unique that people have never seen that before.

They don't know what to make of it or whatever.

And it takes an evolutionary time as an educational process.

And yeah, I mean there's been times where I've had very, very strong criticism in various cities of my work, it's too progressive.

What is it?

What, you know, why is art of value and so on and so forth.

Within four or five years, all of a sudden it becomes a symbol of the city.

It's on their posters, on calendars and the airports and whatever, and all of a sudden they identify with it.

And culture is always a difficult thing to define, but ultimately it enriches one's life.

I mean, you go to work and there's certain pragmatic things you have to do in your life, but the environment you live in, there's a feedback there, no, exactly.

And Rochester is very, very fortunate 'cause we have various cultural institutions that have been here for a long time and really the size of our city and our cultural institutions, there's a greater cultural enrichment and enhancement here, I feel, than other cities our size.

So I think we should be very fortunate.

- Albert, you've been the subject of a number of PBS documentaries.

You've been interviewed on American Crafts series programs.

So I have to ask you, what's next for Albert Paley?

- Oh, I don't know.

I don't know.

I've been very fortunate.

It's basically, it has been not my self direction, but it's the opportunities that have been afforded to me.

I had never thought about the designing a gate until the Smithsonian project came along, or I never thought about a major exhibition in New York until that opportunity came along.

So basically, I think it's the same as anybody that you create a set of skills, a set of understanding, various tools in order to function, and I'm consistently looking for opportunities that I can apply my, my understanding to that besides the technical aspect and all of that.

Then one of the primary things with an artist, it's more of a perceptual thing.

How one perceives form or how one perceives what's appropriate in a given space.

And you develop that perspective and then hopefully a situation comes that you can afford a different perspective on whatever that might be.

Yeah, so that's the challenge, but that's also creating that unique type of statement.

- Albert, I'd like to ask my guests the same three questions before we wrap up.

And the first is, if there was one thing you could change about this community, what would it be?

- Our educational system here, quite frankly, needs a lot of work.

We have our cultural, our social outreach actually in the studio.

We have people from the school systems and various communities coming through to see what an artist studio is like.

And so we try to offer a lot of supports to that.

I think we have a incredibly rich potential, probably just the financial underpinning so much that's happening here, which is the bigger picture is probably our most difficult aspect because we have the institutions, we have the professionals functioning here, and I think everybody is really trying to focus on the wellbeing of the community.

I mean, there's so many outreach groups and so many institutions that are doing so much, and I think that's all happening.

It's just, we have a lot of potential.

- Well, what do you love most about Rochester?

What do you and Francis love most about?

- Well, it's, I mean, for us it's, we live a very dynamic professional life, meaning it's very challenging.

And Rochester, there's a sense of tranquility here, and I don't think I could deal with the competitiveness of New York City.

I mean, there's just so much energy and so much going on.

So for me, the stress and the work in the studio is counterbalanced by the ambiance and the quality of Rochester and we afford ourselves of the various things here.

So, yeah.

- And finally, what do you think is Rochester's best kept secret?

- I just think that the quality of our institutions here as compared to the size of the city, I mean, it's really amazing.

And I don't know, you know, if for instance, the George Eastman house, you know, International House of Photography, I mean, it's an international dimension.

We have one of the biggest health centers in the country.

Our education is really fantastic as far as our universities.

And yeah, I don't know if there's a best kept secret.

- Well, I hope that we help reveal one, and the next time that people are walking downtown and look up or on the RIT campus or they're at the Memorial Art Gallery, they'll have a better understanding of the man who created this work.

And thanks for being with us and sharing your stories.

- Well, thank you for me being here, yep.

- And thank you for watching.

You can share this program or watch it online at wxxi.org and we'll see you next time on Norm and Company.

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