INDIANA HAS BEEN RES WRESTLING WITH THE REGULATION OF ALCOHOL SINCE ITS BECAME A STATE.

THE NORTHWEST TERRITORY AND THE BANNED THE SEAM OF ALCOHOL TO SOLDIERS AND MADE IT A CRIME TO PROVIDE IT TO NIGHTIVE AMERICANS.

THE TERRITORIAL LEGISLATURE PASSED LAWS TO KEEP HOOSIERS FROM DONALD TRUMPING ON SUNDAY AND TO KEEP MINORS FROM DRINKING ALCOHOL ON ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

BY THE TIME THE 18TH AMENDMENT PUT THE CAN A BORN ON THE TRANSPORT OF LIQUOR ACROSS THE COUNTRY INDIANA HAD A STATEWIDE PROHIBITION NOT ONCE BUT TWICE WITH THE FIRST BAN PREDATING FEDERAL PROHIBITION BY 65 YEARS.

Hi, I'm Jon Schwantes, and on THIS week's show, we'll take MEASURE of the Indiana General Assembly's ONGOING attempt to find JUST the right MIX when it comes To beer, wine, and cocktails -- the RIGHT MIX of government OVERSIGHT and consumer CHOICE, that is.

Over the years, Hoosier lawmakers have cleared the way for grocery stores to carry distilled spirits, they've given more latitude to Indiana-based wineries, microbreweries, and craft distillers, AND they've lifted longstanding prohibitions against the sale of alcohol on Sundays, on Election Day, and at the State Fair.

On the OTHER hand, Indiana remains the ONLY state in the NATION to regulate alcohol based on beverage TEMPERATURE -- and, as you might imagine, THAT'S a point of contention.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS -- from the Statehouse to YOUR house.

Legislation concerning the sale of alcoholic beverages is a lot like that "mystery shot" your friend buys you right before last call.

You have a pretty good idea how it'll TASTE -- and how it might AFFECT you -- but until you toss it back and wait a bit, you WON'T know for sure.

On occasion, you might encounter what could be described as "unintended consequences."

Here to talk about the consequences of recent regulatory reforms and efforts to improve them are Republican Representative Ethan Manning of Logansport, chair of the Indiana House Public Policy Committee; Melissa Coxey, executive director of the Indiana Retail Council; Jim Purucker, executive director of the Wine and Spirits Distributors of Indiana; and Lisa Hutcheson, director of the Indiana Coalition to Reduce Underage Drinking.

>>> THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

ETHAN MANNING LET ME START WITH YOU.

WE WERE JOKING A MINUTE AGO, MY FIRST INTERSECTION WITH THE LIQUOR STATUTES CAME AS AN UNDERGRAD AT IU WHEN ON SUNDAY AFTERNOONS WHEN PEOPLE GOT THIRSTY WE WOULD DRAW STRAWS TO TO SEE WHO WOULD GO DRIVE TO THE ILLINOIS BORDER OR THE OHIO BORDER AND BRING I WOULD BACK.

SO THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT.

ARE WE BETTER OR HAVE WE MOVED BACKWARDS?

>> I THINK IT'S HARD TO TELL WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ALCOHOL SPACE BECAUSE IN MY ROLE AS PUBLIC POLICY CHAIRMAN IF THERE'S ONE THING I'VE LEARNED IT'S THAT INDIANA IS UNIQUE.

WHEN YOU SEE ONE STATE'S ALCOHOL LAWS YOU'VE SEEN ONE SEDATE, SO WE'RE ALWAYS MAKING SMALL CHANGES DUE TO CHANGING CONSUMER TASTES AND CHANGES IN THE MARKET SO WE'RE ALWAYS DOING THOSE LITTLE CHANGES.

SOMETIMES WE TALK ABOUT A BIGGER CHANGE.

WE HAD A COUPLE BILLS THIS SESSION BUT IT'S HARD TO SAY WHETHER IT'S BETTER OR WORSE, THE INDIVIDUALITY OF ALCOHOL, ESPECIALLY TO FOLKS WHO ARE UNDER AGE BUT ALSO AGAIN RESPONDING TO THE MARKET AND MAKING SURE THAT CONSUMERS CAN GET WHAT THEY WANT IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER.

>> I GUESS IT IS THE CLASSIC -- THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES, IT'S THE INFLATABLE BALLOON YOU PRESS HERE AND IT'S GOING TO PUSH OUT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND WHETHER IT'S YOUR TERRITORY OR YOUR SALES MARKET SHARE, IF YOU'RE GETTING MAKE SURE SOMEONE -- >> IN SOME CASES OVERALL IT'S NOT ABOUT DEREGULATION BUT IN HI ROLE IT'S ABOUT CONSISTENCY THIS REGULATION.

>> THE REASON WE HAVE 50 DIFFERENT VERSIONS IS?

1933 WHEN THE 21ST IN THE MEANTIME WAS ENACTED AND PROHIBITION ROMED OUT THE SEDATES DID WHAT THEY WANTED.

ARE WE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AS A STATE?

>> I THINK MY ANSWER IS SIMILAR.

ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE A PRODUCT THAT WE AGREE NEED TO BE REGULATED AND SO AS WE ARE -- LOOKING AT THE NUANCES OF HOW ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE LAWS I INVOLVED IN THE STATE OF INDIANA IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO SO WITH A SCALPEL RATHER THAN A SLEDGE HAMMER.

SO ANY OF ANESTHESIA THESE BILLS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS SESSION WE ABSOLUTELY AGREE THE CONVERSATIONS SHOULD CONTINUE.

THEY ARE JUST CONVERSATIONS THAT WE THINK NEED TO BRING MORE PARTIES TO THE TABLE AND REQUIRE MORE TIME.

BECAUSE EVEN AS OUR CONVERSATIONS EVOLVE THIS SESSION WE LOOK AT ONE ISSUE AND THAT WOULD OBSERVATION POSE ANOTHER ONE SO THOSE CONFER CONVERSATIONS NEED TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

>> OF COURSE THE NOTION OF A CONVERSATION IN 2017 THERE WAS A BLUE RIBBON TASK FORCE COMMISSIONED TO LOOK AT THE BUSINESS AND CONSUMER ACT AND THE FOLLOWING YEAR THERE WAS GOING TO BE THIS DEEP DIVE ON THE RETAIL OR THE WHOLESALE DISTRIBUTION PACKAGE.

WASN'T THAT ENOUGH?

>> NO, I THINK IT WOULD BE NAÏVE TO THINK THAT'S ENOUGH.

THIS IS THIS IS AN EVER EVOLVING MARKET PLACE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT YES OR NO ANTICIPATED THE POPULARITY OF NEW READY TO DRINK COCKTAILS CAN THOSE KIND OF THINGS THAT CHANGED THE WAY THE MARKET PLACE LOOKED.

THE WAY CRAFT BEVERAGES STILL SEEM TO BE EXPLODING IN THE STATE OF INDIANA.

THESE CONVERSATIONS OBVIOUSLY STILL NEED TO TAKE PLACE.

>> I REMEMBER WHEN THERE WAS ONE MARK BREWERY IN THE STATE OF INDIANA CAN THERE ARE A FEW MORE THAN THAT.

JIM PURUCKER YOU'VE SEEN A LOT IN YOUR TIME -- >> YES, I'M OLD.

>> I DIDN'T SAY YOU WERE HERE FOR 1933 AND ROLL BACK OF PROHIBITION BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WHAT TRAJECTORY ARE WE ON AT A STATE?

IS THIS SORT OF ONGOING CONVERSATION THAT'S APPROPRIATE OR DO YOU THINK THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT IT THE MORE THERE ARE WINNERS CAN LOSERS?

>> I THINK THE ONGOINGINGS CONVERSATION IS IMPORTANT AND I THINK THE LEGISLATURE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST COUPLE DECADES OF LOOKING AT THINGS.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF PRESSURE BY PARTICULARLY BY THE CRAFT INDUSTRY TO LOOSEN EVERYTHING UP AS THAW WANT TO GET INTO FORESPEAK OF SELLING IT, RETAIL CAN WHOLESALE AND BUILDING ABLE TO TASTE AND GET AROUND ALL THE RULES.

SO MANY OF THE CRAFT -- ONE OF THE THINGS -- THE FIRST REACTION THEY HAVE IS TO RUN TO THE LEGISLATURE AND TRY AND GET EXEMPT FROM THE LAW INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT WORK, AND THAT'S ALWAYS A CHALLENGE, AND I ALWAYS SEEM LIKE A GRINCH TO THE CRAFT PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE'S A WAY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT AND NOT COME UP WITH THOSE URN INTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT YOU DO.

BUT AS MELISSA SAID I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT THE BALANCE OF -- ON ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OF, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S COLD BEER WITH RETAILERS VERSUS PACKAGED LIQUOR STORES OR WHETHER IT'S THE ISSUE THAT WE WERE INVOLVED IN THIS YEAR THAT THE BEER WHOLESALERS WANTED TO SELL SPIRITS BASED ON READY TO DRINK COME COCKTAILS AND DOING THOSE ISSUES IN JUST A VACUUM, I THINK MELISSA IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO LOOK AT THOSE AND ONLY DEAL WITH THAT.

ON THE ISSUE OF -- PARTICULARLY THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT ON THE READY TO DRINK, YOU KNOW IT BROUGHT INTO A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES BECAUSE OF THE WAY BEER WHOLESALERS ARE REGULATEDDED THAT LIQUOR WHOLESALERS ARE NOT -- YOU'VE MADE THAT POINT A COUPLE TIMES.

YOU SLIPPED THAT IN THERE.

>> IT CHANGES A LOTFUL BECAUSE IT CHANGES HOW RETAILERS BUY IT AND ULTIMATELY HAS A BIG AFFECT ON THE MARKETPLACE.

IT'S NOT JUST A WHO SELLS ITS, AND AS REPRESENTATIVE MANNING SAID AND YOU ALLUDED TO IT IS KIND OF A ZERO SUM GAME.

WE'RE ONLY GOING TO SELL SO MUCH OF THIS A YEAR.

THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF AN INCREASE PROBABLY DUE TO THE POPULATION THAT INCREASES EVER YEAR OF ALCOHOL BUT WE'RE ALL ARGUING OVERSELLING THE SAME AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL.

>> MAKES THE STAKES HIGH DISTURB.

>> THE DEBATE BECOME ABOUT WHO SELLS IT.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY WHEN SUNDAY SALES CAME ABOUT A LOT OF THE DEBATE SEEMED TO FOCUS ON MORAL ISSUE BUT IF YOU PEEL BACK THE LAYERS OF THE ONION IT'S A DIFFERENT M WORD, MARKET SHARE MORE THAN MORALS PROBABLY OR MONEY WOULD BE A SHORTER CUT TO THAT.

LISA HUTCHESON, ARE WE THROUGH THE FRUSTRATING YOU BY TALKING ABOUT THE FINE APPOINTMENTS OF REGULATION?

WHEN WAS DRIVEING TO THE STATE LINE -- WHAT'S YOUR TALK ABOUT ON THIS?

>> I'M USUALLY A DIFFERENT VOICE ALL THE TIME IN COMMITTEE, MY OVERARCHING GOAL IS TO BRING THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE, WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT ALCOHOL IS A DRUG AND IT IS THE NUMBER ONE DRUG THAT PEOPLE SEEK TREATMENTS FOR IN OUR STATE SO I DON'T THINK IT CAN BE REGULATEDDED BY OTHER PURUCKERS, I DON'T THINK IT COULD BE AS AVAILABLE AS TOOTH PASTE AND BREAD AND MILK, SO WHEN WE'RE IN COMMITTEE JUST TO KEEP THE PERSPECTIVE THAT IT IS A DRUG THAT HAVE NEEDS TO REMAIN REGULATED.

WE KNOW THAT 28 PERCENT OF COLLEGE STUDENTS BINGE DRINK, SO YOU KNOW THAT IS MY GOAL.

WHEN WE LOOK AT ALL OF THESE ISSUES -- AND I'M NOT INTO THE WEEDS ON THE WHOLESALE AND ALL OF THAT, THAT'S NOT REALLY MY FOCUS BUT OVERALL I THINK FOR OUR PERSPECTIVE WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE REMEMBERING THAT IT IS A DRUG AND THAT IT NEEDS TO BE REGULATED AND REMAIN REGULATED BECAUSE IT DOES IMPACT MENTAL HEALTH, IT DOES IMPACT SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER.

>> HAS THERE BEEN AN APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE THOUGH AS WE LAXED AND MADE LESS STRINGENT -- THERE'S A CORRELATION BETWEEN THAT AND ADDICTION RATES OR IS IT MORE THE SEMS THAT THERE'S MORE AVAILABILITY SO IT MUST BE BAD?

>> I WOULD SAY BECAUSE RESEARCH SHOWS THE MORE AVAILABILITY THERE IS THE MORE LIKELY YOU ARE TO HAVE INCREASES IN UNDERAGE DRINKING AND ADULT DRINKING AND I FOCUS ON UNDERAGE DRINKING BECAUSE WE DO FORGET ABOUT ADULTS AND HIGH RISK DRINKING AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR STATE THEY ARE IN SOME INSTANCES INCREAING, SO CONTROLLING THAT AVAILABILITY, THE OUTLET DENSITY WITH -- THAT'S ONE REASON WHY WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SALON PERMIT LANGUAGE BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE ADDED THOUSANDS OF OUTLETS TO AN ALREADY OVERTAXED INDIANA POLICE.

>> FOR THOSE THAT DON'T FOLLOW THIS YOU'RE REFERRING TO LEGISLATION THAT WOULD HAVE OPENED THE DOOR DOOR TO BEAUTY PARLORS, SALONS TO PROVIDE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, I THINK THE FIGURE I SAW ATTACHED TO IT WAS 8,000 ADDITIONAL AND IT'S NOT HAPPENING THIS SESSION, BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY IT MIGHT NOT COME BACK.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE DISAPPOINTED THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

>> THEY ALREADY BOOKED THEIR NEXT HAIRDO APPOINTMENT.

>> A LOT OF LADIES INTERESTED IN THAT.

>> WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT BARBERSHOPS.

I'M GLAD WE'RE NOT DISCRIMINATING IN THAT REGARD.

ETHAN MANNING YOU ALLIEDED TO THIS EARLIER ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS YOU WOULD LOOK TO SEE HATCH THIS SESSION.

YOU HAD LEGISLATION YOU AUTHORED AND NOW AS A CONFEREE YOU'VE BEEN MORE OF A SIDELINE PRESENCE.

WHAT'S THE TAKEAWAY THIS SESSION?

WHAT CAN WE TELL HOOSIERS ON THIS ARETHA OF ALCOHOL REGULATION WE'RE BETTER OFF THAN BEFORE BECAUSE .

.

.

>> SURE, TO ONE OF THE BIG TOPICS IS OUT DOOR REFRESHMENT AREAS.

THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND A NUMBER OF YEARS, I THINK THERE WERE SEC WOMENS FILED THIS YEAR SO WE ENDED UP WITH SENATE BILLET DUET SO THAT, WHERE THEY CAN ALLOW ESSENTIAL OF CARRY OF ALCOHOL WITHIN THAT AREA, THERE HAS TO BE A DESIGNATED RETAILER OR CRAFT RETAILER RIGHT THERE AND SO WHAT WE'RE ALLOWING IS FESTIVALS AND THINGS LIKE THIS TO HAPPEN BUT IT COULD BE ALL THE TIME.

THE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY GETS TO DECIDE WHEN AND WHERE THAT HAPPENS SO WE'VE WORKED WITH OUR ALCOHOL COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS.

WE SEE HISTORIC DISTRICTSES POP URN AROUND THE STATE CAN THIS COULD BE A GOOD DRIVER FOR GROWTH >>> AND I ASSUME THERE WOULD BE SOME WHO WOULD SEE THIS AS PERCEIVED BAD INFLUENCE, BUT A 200-FOOT BUFFER FROM SCHOOLS AND CHURCHES UNLESS THE SCHOOL OR CHURCH IS ENTHUSIASTICALLY -- >> WE MADE SURE THAT IT CAN EXIST FROM THAT PROCEDURE.

>> AND YOU DON'T HAVE A DOG -- BUT I'M GUESSING LISA IT DOES ALARM YOU?

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THIS?

IF THERE IS ONE?

>> WE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THE PROVISIONS.

NOT EVERY COMMUNITY MAY SEE THE VALUE OF WRIST BANDERS OR OTHER ENFORCEMENT AFFIDAVITS SO WE HOPED THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN AT THE STATE LEVEL, BUT I GUESS WE'LL SEE HOW COMMUNITIES HANDLE THAT AND IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES BUT I WOULD HOPE THE RETAILERS WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE AND CHECKING ID AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT OVERSERVING PEOPLE.

>> AND JIM I GUESS THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A FIGHT THAT MELISSA IS FIGHTING -- >> NO, I WOULD ADD THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE IN INDIANAPOLIS, I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF PRESS COVERAGE ABOUT A COUPLE OF BARS THAT HAVE BEEN ON THE RADAR SCREEN OF THE COMMUNITY TRYING TO GET THEM SHUT DOWN CAN THEY FINALLY GOT THEM SHUT DOWN RECENTLY, THAT PROBLEM BARS WHERE THERE WERE MULTIPLIES RUNS AND ALL KINDS OF ISSUES AND I THINK THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE SEE WHEN WE ARE BECOMING LAX IN HOW WE REGULARITIES THE PRODUCT: WHEN WE DON'T ATTACK A VIGILANT LOOK AT EITHER YOU KNOW, PUTTING -- HOLDING THESE PEOPLE THAT OWN THESE FACILITIES TO A HIGHER STANDARD AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY DO THE RIGHT THING.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT IS A SOCIALLY SENSITIVE PRODUCT AND IT'S REGULATEDDED FOR A REASON.

IT'S THE ONLY PRODUCT IN THE WORLD THAT HAS ITS OWN AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND IT'S BECAUSE OF JUST THAT PROBLEM.

IT WAS HORRIBLY ABUSEs PRIOR TO PROHIBITION AND IT LED TO PROHIBITION BECAUSE OF THE ABUSE.

>> WE USE TO SEE SAY THE PRESS AND MEDIA WERE THE ONLY ONES WITH AN AMENDMENT, BE I GUESS YOU CAN QUIBBLE OVER THAT.

YOU DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE LAST ISSUE BUT THERE'S ANOTHER PROVISION THAT I'M GUESSING YOU WILL AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH GROCERY STORES AND BIG BOX RETAILERS AND OTHER -- INCLUDING SOME OF YOUR MEMBERS -- WHO SELL CHILLED COOLED -- I GUESS THE TERM IS READY TO DRINK MIXED DRINKS, COCKTAILS, SELTZERS AND HARD CIDERS, THAT'S THE SAND FOR THAT.

ARE YOU RUBBLE TROUBLED?

BECAUSE IF THIS GOES THROUGH YOU CAN'T DO THAT, YOUR MEMBERS CAN'T DO THAT.

YOU'RE SMILING STILL SO -- >> I MEAN, YES IT IS AN ISSUE THAT WE HAVE OPPOSED, BUT LIKE I SAID EARLIER WE REALLY APPRECIATED THE CONVERSATIONS AROUND THIS ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, WE -- OUR MEMBERSHIP BELIEVES THAT WE HAVE SOLD THIS PRODUCT SAFELY AND EFFECTIVELY FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

WE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POLICY REASON FOR I IT BUT THAT'S WHY AGAIN WE FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO GO BACK TO HAVING MORE FULL MILLION CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE ISSUE.

>> YOUR MEMBERSHIP HAS -- NOT ONLY DID THEY HAVE A CHOICE BUT WILL READILY ACQUIESCE AND WON'T FIND THE WHITE CLAWS IN THE GROCERY STORE AISLES.

>> I BELIEVE AT BEST IT'S A GRAY AREA WHETHER BIG BOX STORES ARE ALLOWED TO SELL CHILLED SPIRITS, THINGS THAT DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL A FEW YEARS AGO, SO I THINK SOME RETAILERS ARE TESTING THE BOUNDARIES SO I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE LEGISLATURE TOE CONTEMPLATE THIS.

FOR ME IT'S IN CONSISTENT TO ONLY ALLOW COLD BEER BUT ALLOW COLD SPIRITS TO BE SOLD IN ANY BIG BOX STORE T. THE OTHER THING THAT WAS INCLUDED THAT BILL WAS WE INCLUDED CURBSIDE DELIVERY FOR THE THE BIG BOX RETAILERS SO WHEN PEOPLE ORDER THEIR DEPRESS RES THEY CAN ALSO GET ALCOHOL DELIVERED TO THEIR CAR, SO AGAIN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BALANCE THAT'S WHAT WE ATTEMPT TO DO THERE.

>> SOME OF THAT WAS HASTENED BY COVID, WHICH THERE WERE EMERGENCY MEASURES WHICH WERE EMBRACED AND IMPLEMENTED.

LISA, PROBLEMATIC?

>> WE HAVE NEVER NEVER BEEN A HUGE FAN OF ALL THE PERMANENT CHANGES THANKED AFTER COID HAVE.

I DON'T THINK THERE NEED TO BE EMERGENCY ORDERS FUR ME TO GET A MARGARITA READY TO GO, WHICH WAS HAPPENING.

SO CURBSIDE DELIVERY WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WHO'S DELIVERING, IS IT THE 18-YEAR-OLD WHO WORKS,S WHOA MONITORING THAT 18-YEAR-OLDS, AGAIN I HOPE THE RETAILERS ARE GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE IN TRAINING THEIR EMPLOYEES TO DELIVER THAT AND MAKE SURE IT'S NOT GETTING INTO THE WRONG HANDS BUT IN TERMS OF THE READY TO DRINK, OUR CONCERN IS THE ALCOHOL CONTEMPT IS MUCH HIGHER THAN A STANDARD BEVERAGE CAN WE KNOW THAT A LOT OF MINORS PARTICULARLY ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES DRINK THOSE SO IT GOES TOE ACCESS AND AVAILABILITY AND WE SEEM DO BE INCREASING THAT EVERY SESSION.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE COUCHED OR FRAME THE WHOLE -- AND THIS GOES BACK SESSIONS, THE NOTION OF COLD VERSUS WARM, IT'S ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, DRUNKEN DRIVING AND SO FORTH BUT OF COURSE YOU CAN GET COLD BEVERAGES AT PACKAGE STORES: CAN'T GET COLD POP OR OTHER MIXERS OR WATER BUT YOU -- OKAY, I'M TRACKING -- JIM THIS REALLY ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY OR IS IT JUST -- GOES BACK THE MARKET SHARE?

>> I THINK IT'S BOTH.

AGAIN, I THINK YOU'VE GOT A SETTLE OF RULES THAT EVERYBODY HAS GROWN UP UNDER AND THAT THE BUSINESS MODEL HAS BEEN CREATED BY AND THE VALUES OF THEIR BUSINESSES HAVE BEEN UNDERSTOOD WITH AND ANY CHANGE TO THAT IS GOING TO BE LOOKED UPON NEGATIVELY FROM THAT BUSINESS OWNER.

BUT THERE'S ALSOING PUBLIC SAFETY, THERE'S ALSO CONSUMER ACCESS.

YOU KNOW, THE DEBATE IN PACKAGE LIQUOR STORESES VERSUS BIG BOX STORES THEY'RE DIFFERENT, THEY'RE DIFFERENT ANIMALS.

THERE'S A SET OF RULES FOR WHAT PACKAGE LIQUOR STORES SELL AND THERE'S A SET FOR BIG BOX STORE ASKS HOW THAT IS DELINEATED THAT'S WHAT REPRESENTATIVE MANNING GETS BIG BUCK DO WORK OUT AND THEY ARE BOTH CUSTOMERS OF OURS, BUT THERE'S EVIDENT BENEFIT TO BOTH, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A WIDED VARIETIES OF CRAFT BEERS AND MAYBE THAT OBSCURE SCOTCH, SO GIVES AND TAKES IN THE WHOLE MARKETPLACE THAT I THINK ARE IMPORTANT TO LOOK ANOTHER IN ADDITION TO THE ECONOMICS OF IT AND PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECTS.

>> YOU'RE NOT ACCOUNTING FOR THAT NEW LETTUCE INFUSE MALT BEVERAGE.

THE NEXT BIG THING.

ETHAN MANNING, ANOTHER THING THAT HAS SEEMED TO BE -- WELL IT'S SPARKED CONVERSATION, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

WON'T HAPPEN THIS SESSION BUT THAT IS EXCLUSIVIVETY, BEER DISTRIBUTORS RIGHT NOW AND THIS REMINDS ME THE OF THE PHRASE BEER BARRON, IN OTHER SECTORS OF THE INDUSTRY DON'T HAVE THAT EXCLUSIVEITY.

IS THERE GOING TO BE AN APPETITE AT SOME POINT TO LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD IN THAT REGARD TOO OR IS THE BET ERR OR PERHAPS MORE PALATEDDABLE TO LEVEL IT BY BACKING AWAY ALL TOGETHER?

>> THAT WOULD BE ON ONGOING CONVERSATION, WE'LL BE BACK FOR THE LEGISLATION BUT WE DID HAVE HOUSE BILL 1534 THIS YEAR AND WHAT THAT DID AS AMENDED BECAUSE WE HEARD A LOT OF TESTIMONY INCLUDING FROM MR. PURUCKER BUT THE BILL ULTIMATELY PASSENGER SEATED THE HOUSE 77-21 SO NOT ALL THAT CONTROVERSIAL AT THE END OF THE DAY ON THE HOUSE SIDE BUT IT ALLOWED THE NEW BEVERAGES, THE WHITE CLAWS AND WE PLACED THEM UNDER A WINE WHOLESALE LICENSE, SO YOU CAN ONLY HAVE BEER OR LIQUOR AND BOTH CAN HAVE WINE.

SO ALL WE DID WAS PUT THE MIXED WE'VE REASONABLES IN THE CENTER SO BOTH BEER CAN LIQUOR CAN DISCRIMINATE THOSE, SO PRETTY NARROW BILL JUST TO ALLOW WHAT THE BOOR WHOLESALERS WOULD LIKED TO, COME OUT WITH READY TO DRINKS THAT ARE NOT BEER BASED AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO SOLE THE PRODUCTS THAT THEIR PARENT COMPANIES ARE PRODUCING.

>> WHY IS IT PROBLEMATIC FOR YOU?

>> BEER WHOLESALERS HAVE A DIFFERENT SETTLE OF RULES.

WE IN A REGULATED MARKET PLACE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN US AND OUR SUPPLIERS IS A TOTALLY FREE ENTERPRISE MODEL.

OUR SUPPLIERS HIRE US SOMETIMES WITH A HANDSHAKE AND SOMETIMES WITH A CONTRACTS AND BUT WE GET ZERO NOTICE OR 30 DAYS NOTICE OF A CHANGE.

BEER WHOLESALERS HAVE FRANCHISE PROTECTION THAT SAYS A BRAND, ANHEUSER-BUSCH OR MILL ERRORS CAN NEVER LEAVE THAT WHOLESALER AND IT IS SET UP THAT IT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR A BEER WHOLESALER TO LOSE A BRAND.

IN ADDITION TO THAT THEY HAVE EXCLUSIVE TERRITORIES SO WHAT THESE PRODUCTS THAT -- AND IT IS NOT JUST THE ANHEUSER-BUSCH DEVELOPING ITS OWN PRODUCTS, THEY ARE DOING THAT BUT FOR EXAMPLE ONE OF MY MEMBERS STARTED SELLING CULT WATER SPIRITS AND IT WAS A SPIRITS COMPANY, ANHEUSER-BUSCH BOUGHT THEM -- >> AND PEPSI HASN'T COME IN WITH THE BLUE CLOUD.

>> THERE WOULD BE NO FRANCHISE PROTECTION ON THIS, IT'S A LEVEL PLAY ING FIELD.

>> I'M HEARING LAST CALL.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO HOME BUT YOU CAN'T STAY HERE AS THEY SAY.

THANK YOU FOR BUILDING HERE AND YOUR INSIGHTS.

Again, my guests have been Republican Representative Ethan Manning of Logansport; Melissa Coxey of the Indiana Retail Council; Jim Purucker of the Wine and Spirits Distributors of Indiana, and Lisa Hutcheson of the Indiana Coalition to Reduce Underage Drinking.

Time now for our weekly conversation with Indiana Lawmakers analyst Ed Feigenbaum, publisher of the newsletter Indiana Legislative Insight, part of Hannah News Service.

ED I GET THE SENSE OF WHEN WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IN TEN YEARS, FATE WILLING ARE WE STILL GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT HOW TO TWEAK ALCOHOL REGULATION?

>> YOU AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR 25 YEARS NOW, YEAH AND THE FIVE DECADES WE'VE BEEN COVERING THIS IT'S BEEN THE MOST HEATED ISSUE.

WE STARTED OUT WITH THE BEER BILL AND THAT WAS SO CON CONTENTIOUS AND IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE YOU CAN NEVER QUITE ZIP UP ALL THE LITTLE LOOPHOLES.

WE SEEM TO FIND THAT SOMETHING NEW COME UP EACH TIME.

THE CONVENIENCE STORE, WE'RE REALLY RESTAURANTS, WE CAN SELL ALCOHOL AND NOW IT'S COCKTAILS AND WE HAVE THE COLD BEVERAGES.

WHAT WILL IT BE NORTH CAROLINA NEXT TIME?

>> DO WE SEE REGULATION?

IS THAT THE ONE CONSTANT?

>> ABSOLUTELY WE HAVE TO SEE REGULATION BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE PRODUCT BUT WE NEED TO SEE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO PROBABL SEE SOMETIME IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS IS A STEP BACK CAN HAVING PEOPLE SAY LET'S COME TO THE TABLE AND COME ONE A COMPREHENSIVE WAY TO REGULATE THINGS AND LET'S LOOK AT THIS SO THERE'S CONSISTENCY ACROSS ALL SECTORS.

>> BUDGET COMPROMISE, ANY SURPRISES THERE?

>> THERE'S NO LOTTERY IN THERE AND THAT GIVES REPRESENTATIVE MANNING AS CHAIR OF THE PUBLIC POLICY COMMITTEE MORE LEVERAGE ON THE GAMING BILLS.

>> ED THANKS AS ALWAYS FOR YOUR INCITE.

The 2023 General Assembly is now history.

As the dust settles, we will sit down with Caucus leaders to assess what it means for you...on the next Indiana Lawmakers.

Well, that concludes another edition of Indiana Lawmakers.

I'm Jon Schwantes, and, on behalf of commentator Ed Feigenbaum, WFYI Public Media, and Indiana's OTHER public-broadcasting stations, I thank you for joining us.

And I invite you to visit WFYI.org for MORE Statehouse news.

Until next week, take care.