>> TONIGHT ON "POINTS NORTH," WE WILL ROPE IN WITH A VERMONTER WHO IS TAKING PHOTOGRAPHY TO NEW HEIGHTS.

LOOK AT FURNITURE-MAKING UNIQUELY DERIVED FROM TWO DIFFERENT CULTURES, AND YOU WILL MEET THE ARTIST BEHIND THE CURIOUS GREETING CARDS I'VE BEEN SEEING LATELY.

>> WELCOME TO "POINTS NORTH," I'M ROB MICHALAK.

HE WAS JUST FOUR YEARS OLD WHEN HE HIKED THE MOUNTAIN WITH HIS DAD AND SNAPPED A FEW SHOITS -- PHOTOS, NOW 32 YEARS LATER HE'S MAKING A LIVING FROM IT.

HIS CLIMBS INCLUDE VERMONT LIFE, WALK IN ICE, AND POWDER MAGAZINE.

AND ALTHOUGH HE LIKES TO HIKE, THESE DAYS YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO FIND ALDEN AND HIS CAMERA DANGLING FROM THE FACE OF AN ICE WALL, WHICH IS WHERE WE RECENTLY JOINED HIM.

♪ >> IT WAS A PASSION FOR ME FROM THE BEGINNING.

♪ >> MY FAVORITE TIME TO TAKE PICTURES IS USUALLY MORNING, AND THE SKY SEEMS A LITTLE CLEARER.

THE CLIMB I DID A COUPLE YEARS AGO, WE NAMED "ROYAL PAIN IN THE ICE."

CLIMBING HAS BEEN A SERIOUS PASSION FOR ME SINCE I STARTED DOING IT.

ONCE I REALIZED, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO STAY WITHIN 1200 FEET OF THE GROUND.

YOU ARE NOT DICTATED BY THE LENGTH OF THE ROPE TO STAY NEXT TO THE GROUND, YOU KNOW, I TOOK OFF FROM THERE.

I WAS LIKE WOW, I CAN DO THIS AND GET UP HERE AND ENJOY THE VIEWS AND GET PICTURES.

IT'S AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE TO JUST BE UP THERE.

>> HOW ARE YOU DOING?

>> WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> HEY.

>> INCREDIBLE.

PICTURE-PERFECT.

>> SITTING THERE LOOKING AROUND GOING WOW!

THIS IS AMAZING.

YOU DON'T SEE THIS WALKING DOWN THE SIDEWALK, YOU KNOW.

>> DO YOU WANT TO GO FIRST?

>> I FIGURED YOU COULD TAKE IT UP.

>> I WILL RUN AROUND AND TAKE PICTURES FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES.

AND MAYBE USE THAT PILLAR THERE.

MADE IT.

MY DAD TOOK ME UP TO CAMEL'S HUMP WHEN I WAS REALLY YOUNG, FOUR YEARS OLD, AND TOOK PICTURES UP THERE.

STILL OLD PICTURES OF ME, YOU KNOW, IN MY SNEAKERS HANGING OUT WITH THE VIEW.

I STILL LOVE GOING UP THERE ON CAMEL'S HUMP AND HANGING OUT EARLY IN THE MORNING AND WATCHING THE SUNRISE.

JUST TAKING PICTURES.

IT'S WORTH IT.

ALL RIGHT.

>> A QUICK PICTURE RIGHT THERE.

THAT'S GOOD.

ALL RIGHT.

>> A NICE STICK TODAY, HUH?

>> THAT PLACE OVER THERE, THOUGH.

WE HAVE GOT TO CLIMB THAT.

>> I GOT A CAMERA PROBABLY IN MY TEENS, AND TOOK PICTURES OF FISHING AND THE OUTDOORS, STUFF THAT I LIKE TO DO.

CLIMBING THE PHOTOGRAPHY MERGED A LOT, JUST SORT OF HAPPENED.

I STARTED REALLY LOVING CLIMBING.

ULTIMATELY, THE FIRST PICTURE I GOT I GOT PUBLISHED IN VERMONT LIFE.

THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A STORY ABOUT THE OLD-TIMERS, AND IT WAS A LOT OF FUN TO GET A PICTURE OF MY FRIENDS JUMPING OFF THIS SICK JUMP, AND TAKING THE PICTURES, AND WE HAD A GREAT DAY.

AND IF EVERY DAY WAS LIKE THAT, I WOULD HAVE THE BEST JOB THAT THERE IS.

>> NICE!

VERY SWEET.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> WHT A DAY.

>> THE BEST THING ABOUT MY JOB IS YOU GO PAID TO COME OUT HERE AND PLAY.

SPENDING TIME UP IN THE HIGH MOUNTAINS AND CAMPING OUT ON THE SUMMIT, YOU KNOW.

HEARING THE WIND COME UP THROUGH THE TREES TO THE TOP IN THE MORNING, JUST THE MOON AND GOING TO WORK IS ONE OF THE BEST JOBS THAT THERE IS.

THERE ARE THE DAYS WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS -- SAYS, CALLS YOU UP AND SAYS WE WANT YOU TO GO TO THIS STATE PARK AND TAKE PICTURES AND CAMP AND SO I CALL MY FRIENDS, AND WE GO AND HAVE FUN.

THE PEOPLE THAT I CLIMB WITH ARE FANTASTIC.

SOME OF THE BEST PEOPLE THAT I KNOW.

THIS IS REALLY COOL UP HERE.

>> TAKE A LOOK BACK DOWN THE CLIMB.

OVER THIS WAY.

LOOK AT THAT.

YEAH.

THAT'S GOOD.

YOU TRUST YOUR LIFE TO IT.

YOU BETTER LIKE THEM.

>> HANG ON FOR JUST A SECOND.

I HAD TO GET THAT.

>> YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE LAST PIECE OF GEAR, WONDERING IF IT IS GOOD.

YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THE NEXT MOVE.

IT'S VERY CONSUMING AND THE CONCENTRATION IT TAKES WHEN YOU ARE OUT THERE IS INTENSE.

THERE IS A COUPLE OF SCARY EVENTS.

I WAS SO COMFORTABLE THAT I UNCLIPPED FROM THE ANCHOR AND MOVED DOWN A FEW STEPS ON THE SNOW, AND THERE WAS ICE UNDERNEATH, AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I HAD NOT PLACED ANY PROTECTION ON THE PITCH, JUST ZIPPED RIGHT UP.

AND ROLLED OVER AND GOT MYSELF AT THE EDGE OF THE DROP, AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD 300, 400.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER.

I AM SURE MY FAMILY WORRIES, MY MOM AND DAD.

MY WIFE WORRIES, TOO.

BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU FOLLOW SAFE CLIMBING PRACTICES, IT'S AS SAFE AS ANY OTHER SPORT.

>> HERE IT COMES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I GOT A CALL FROM A BIOLOGIST OVER IN NEW HAMPSHIRE THIS SUMMER, LOOKING FOR A CLIMBER TO GUIDE HIM OVER TO A PEREGRINE FALCON NESTER.

SO I AGREED TO DO IT, AND WE WENT OVER.

THE BLACK FLIES WERE ENORMOUS BUT THAT WAS NOTHING IMPAIRED TO THE PEREGRINE.

IT WAS FANTASTIC.

THESE LITTLE BIRDS AND BIG, BRIGHT EYES STARING UP AT ME.

THAT WAS A LOT OF FUN BECAUSE I MAJORED IN ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES IN COLLEGE, SO IT WAS REALLY THE FIRST TIME REALLY WHERE THAT HAD COME TOGETHER ALONG WITH PHOTOGRAPHY.

AND CLIMBING.

THAT ONE WILL SHOW UP ON THE FILM.

MY IDEA OF A PERFECT DAY IS GETTING OUT, TAKING GREAT PICTURES AND HANGING OUT WITH GOOD FRIENDS.

GOING HOME TIRED.

AFTER CLIMBING, TIRED.

HIKING SOMETHING HARD.

AND I HAVE A LOT OF PERFECT D DAYS.

I AM NEVER GOING TO STOP CLIMBING UNTIL I -- THE DOCTOR SAYS I CAN'T AND THEN I WILL GO FOR A FEW MORE WEEKS.

TAKING MY CAMERA ALONG.

AND TAKING PICTURES.

>> WHAT'S YOUR IDEA OF FINE FURNITURE?

WELL, IF IT'S MASS PRODUCED IN SHOWROOM QUALITY OUR NEXT SEGMENT MAY NOT BE FOR YOU.

FOR MASTER CRAFTSMEN LIKE DAVID LAMB, IT IS A CREATIVE MEDIUM AND FURNITURE-MAKING IS A CLASSICAL ART FORM SUBJECT TO RULES AND TRADITIONS.

IN THIS CASE, TWO VERY DISTINCT TRADITIONS.

NEW HAMPSHIRE PUBLIC TELEVISION VISITED LAMB AT CANTERBURY SHAKER VILLAGE, AND IN HIS SHOP WHERE HE PROVES DAILY THAT THE SUM OF TWO STYLES IS, INDEED, GREATER THAN ONE STYLE ALONE.

>> I HAD A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO MEET THE SHAKER SISTERS.

THERE WERE SIX OF THEM THEN.

AT THE SAME TIME I HAD HAD APPRENTICESHIP, WITH MR.

DELA CRUZ GETTING EXPOSED TO EUROPEAN TRADITIONS AND CRAFTSMANSHIP IN FURNITURE-MAKING.

WHILE I WAS APPRENTICING THERE I WAS STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL, SO IT WAS AFTER SCHOOL AND ON WEEKENDS THAT THEN I EVENTUALLY ESTABLISHED A SHOP UP HERE IN THE VILLAGE, A SPACE TO WORK IN, THE BASEMENT OF THE HOUSE.

>> AND THEN HERE.

>> AND THEN HERE.

I WAS ALWAYS INTRIGUED BY THIS STUFF.

THAT ENCOURAGED ME TO START COLLECTING THE MACHINERY LIKE THERE, SO I DID THAT AS A HOBBY, AS WELL.

NEW HAMPSHIRE MADE MACHINERY.

AND THIS IS A FAIRLY SMALL ROOM, AND I DID A LOT OF WORK IN HERE, AND HAD A WOOD STOVE OVER HERE THAT I HAD COME OUT AND DEALT WITH EVERY MORNING, AND I COULD SEE YOUR BREATH AND FROSTY AND THE TEMPERATURE WOULD GRADUALLY COME UP AND NOW WE DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT AND IT'S A LOT EASIER.

BUT -- >> WHAT KINDS OF THINGS WERE YOU MAKING WHEN YOU WERE WORKING?

>> EVERYTHING FROM LITTLE SHAKER TABLES TO CHIP AND DALE HIGH BOYS.

AS AN APPRENTICE I DIDN'T WORK ON ANY OF HIS PIECES.

SIEVES THERE, AND I HAD A BENCH, IN THE CORNER AND I WOULD PRACTICE JOINERY TECHNIQUES AND STUFF, SO I WAS THERE FOR THREE YEARS, AND I NEVER MADE A PIECE OF FURNITURE WHILE I WAS THERE.

IT WAS JUST PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

THE PHILOSOPHY BOTH FROM BOTH PLACES, THE SHAKERS AND MR.

DELLA CRUZ WAS THAT YOU DID EVERYTHING FOR THE LONG HAUL.

YOU DID THINGS THE CORRECT WAY, AND IF IT WASN'T DONE RIGHT YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T TRY TO PATCH IT AND MAKE IT WORK.

YOU THROW IT AWAY AND START OVER.

IT'S A COMMITMENT FOR DOING GOOD WORK AND STANDING BEHIND YOUR WORK, SO YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS HAD THAT FOUR FRONT.

THE COMMITMENT, HE SAID, IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE.

AND HE MADE IT FEEL LIKE THE COMMITMENT TO YOUR TRADE WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR FAMILY.

I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD GO THAT FAR, BUT YEAH.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

IT'S RIGHT UP THERE.

>> AND THE SHAKERS HAD THAT COMMITMENT?

>> OH, YEAH, THE MOTHER WOULD COME UP WITH LIKE DO YOUR WORK AS IF IT WAS GOING TO LAST A THOUSAND YEARS.

BUT GET IT DONE TOMORROW.

I AM PARAPHRASING, BUT IN OTHER WORDS DO IT WELL DONE, SO IT LASTS A LONG TIME BUT DO IT QUICKLY.

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME.

I DIDN'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN SHOP IN SCHOOL.

A YEAR OR TWO.

BUT I DIDN'T MAKE IT A FAVORITE HANGOUT, BUT I LIKED THE ART DEPARTMET.

MUCH BETTER.

AND I THINK THAT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT I KNOW OF THAT ARE AT A HIGH LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM WOULD PROBABLY FALL INTO THAT SAME CATEGORY.

YOU KNOW.

THEY ARE ARTISTS FIRST, AND THIS IS THE WAY THEY EXPRESS THEMSELVES.

BUT THE MORE YOU SEE OF IN RECENT CONTEMPORARY WORK, OF WHAT THEY CALL STUDIO FURNITURE, REALLY IT RELATES TO SATHER BEC-- TO ARTBECAUSE YOU ARE NOTT ONE THING AFTER ANOTHER BUT EXPRESSING YOURSELF DOING A WHOLE ARRAY OF THINGS IN A CRAFTED WAY, BUT THE QUALITY AND THE LEVEL IS ARTISTIC.

TO ME THIS PIECE OF FURNITURE IS A GREAT COMBINATION OF WHAT I SEE AS MY SHAKER INFLUENCE AND TRADITIONAL INFLUENCE.

IT'S VERY SOPHISTICATED OF A PIECE, WHICH WOULD TEND TO LEAN MORE TOWARDS TRADITIONAL WAYS OF THINKING, AND IT HAS A LOT OF DETAILS LIKE THESE STONE BEADS AND THE FEET, WHICH WOULD ALSO LINK TOWARDS TRADITIONAL DETAILS, BUT IT'S A VERY SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD FORM AT THE SAME TIME.

>> HOW IS THAT WORTH THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS?

>> IT'S IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.

I TEND TO THINK IN TERMS OF TIME AND MATERIALS.

THAT'S HOW I THINK OF OUR PRICE IN WORK, BUT THERE IS THE OTHER ELEMENT OF PERCEIVED VALUE, YOU KNOW.

IT'S USIG MATERIAL IN NEW WAYS.

IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE ARE ALWAYS DIFFERENTLETS THAT ADD TO THE VALUE, AND THE FACT THAT IT WAS EXHIBIT AND HAD PHOTOGRAPHED AND CATALOGED AND DOCUMENTED NOW, SO THESE ALL ADD TO THE VALUE, TOO.

>> I HAVE -- IT REMINDS ME OF A FRIENDS OF MY, WHO IS A CARPENTER, AND HE GAVE ME A PIECE FOR A LITTLE JOB, 40 CENTS FOR TWO, AND 74.50 FOR KNOWING WHERE TO PUT IT.

[LAUGHTER] >> THAT'S TRUE.

THIS COMES WITH 25 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE.

>> THE THINGS THAT MOTIVATE ME ARE, YOU KNOW, MY ASSOCIATION WITH THE SHAKERS, KNOWING THEM, AND MY PARENTS AND MY FAMILY AND, YOU KNOW, THEIR EXPECTINGS YOU PUT ON YOURSELF IN THE SPECTRUM OF HIM LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER, EVEN THOUGH HE'S NOT HERE ANY MORE, I KNOW HE'S HERE THAT, KIND OF SENSE.

AM I LIVING UP TO THOSE STANDARDS?

>> FOR MOST ARTISTS THE LINE IS SOMETIMES VAGUE BETWEEN THE PERSONAL AND PUBLIC.

THE THERAPEUTIC AND THE MARK DRIVEN.

SO IT IS WITH FORMER ROCK LYRICIST DUG NAP.

IRONICALLY HIS SERIOUS ART CAREER BEGAN IN THERAPY WHICH LED TO PAINTINGS THAT COMBINED IMAGES AND WORDS.

BUT PAINTINGS DIDN'T SELL, SO IN A FLASH OF ENTREPRENEURIAL GENIUS HE BEGAN MAKING CARDS.

NOT EXACTLY GREETING CARDS BUT CARD-SIZED DRAWINGS WITH VERBAL JABS OF WIT AND PERSONAL WISDOM.

THE POPULARITY HAS GENERATED A NEW INCOME STREAM, AND REVIVED HIS PROFESSIONAL ART CAREER.

FOUR OF HIS PAINTINGS WERE INSTALLED IN THE AMERICAN VISIONARY ART MUSEUM, AND THERE ARE RUMBLINGS OF GALLERIA INTEREST.

WE VISITED HIM AT HIS BURLINGTON HOME STUDIO TO MEET AN ARTIST WHO STILL IS LOOKING FOR A BALANCE BETWEEN THE PERSONAL AND THE PUBLIC.

YOU HAVE LIVED A CREATIVE LIFE.

YOU HAVE BEEN A WRITER, A MUSICIAN, A LYRICIST, AND NOW AN ARTIST.

HOW HAVE THE DIFFERENT PARTS FED EACH OTHER AND HOW DO THEY RELATE TO EACH OTHER?

>> WELL, I WORK WITH BOTH WORDS AND IMAGES.

THEY DO ALSO SEEM TO RELATE TO EACH OTHER.

I STUDIED PLAYWRIGHT A BIT.

I FEEL LIKE MY WORK IS THEATRICAL, HAS A THEATRICAL ELEMENT.

THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST OBVIOUS.

>> SO HOW DID YOU ARRIVE AT YOUR ARTISTIC STYLE?

FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT, YOU USE BOTH WORDS AND PHRASES AND SENTENCES AND INTERESTING LINES WITH HUMOR AND SOMETIMES JUST THE PHILOSOPHICAL STATEMENTS.

HOW DID YOU ARRIVE AT PUTTING BOTH WORDS AND IMAGES TOGETHER IN SUCH AN INTERESTING WAY?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I USED TO DRAW AS A KID.

IT SOME DRAW ANYTHING HIGH SCHOOL.

BUT A LOT OF MY -- LIKE I SAID, THERE CAME A POINT WHERE I WANTED TO -- I STOPPED DOING MUSIC BUT DID NOT WANT TO GIVE UP THE HEROIC SIDE OF ME, SO I FELT KIND OF LIKE I WAS -- FELT GOOD TO COMBINE IT WITH MY INTERESTS IN THE ART.

IT FELT LIKE I WAS KNOCKING DOWN A WALL BETWEEN TWO SORT OF SEPARATE PARTS OF MY PERSONALITY, AND SO I DID THAT.

>> WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY IN YOUR ART?

BECAUSE SOME OF IT IS HUMOR AND SOME OF IT IS VERY INTERESTING IN TERMS OF THE INTELLECTUAL STIMULATION IT CAN HAVE AND WHAT IT'S TRYING TO SAY, SO WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?

>> I AM NOT SURE WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY.

I DO USE ART AS A THERAPY SOMETIMES, BUT I TRY TO JUST KEEP MYSELF SORT OF OPEN TO SORT OF WHATEVER COMES.

>> HOW DOES IT -- HOW DO YOU FIND THE VOICE FOR A PIECE?

DO YOU JUST -- IS IT A STRING -- >> LIKE I WILL GET AN IDEA FOR SOMETHING, AND I WILL PUT IT DOWN, AND I WILL LIVE WITH IT FOR A WHILE, AND I WILL KEEP COMING BACK TO IT, AND I WILL PLAY AROUND WITH IT FOR A WHILE, AND I WILL LIVE WITH IT FOR, YOU KNOW, A WHILE LONGER, AND IT WILL SORT OF TELL ME WHAT IT WANTS OR DOESN'T WANT.

AND I DO A LOT OF THINGS, LIKE I HAVE THIS PIECE OVER HERE, AND I WILL JUST SORT OF LIVE WITH IT FOR A WHILE, AND IT KIND OF FAL--TALKS TO KNEE.

>> YOUR WORK SEEMS TO BE ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS, WHETHER IT'S BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS OR ANIMALS AND HUMAN BEINGS, OR ANIMALS WITH OTHER ANIMALS.

AND IT SEEMS IMPORTANT, WHAT IS IT ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS?

>> I AM INTERESTED IN THAT PART OF IT, YEAH.

I HAVE, I SEEM -- I LOVE TO MAKE THINGS THAT SEEMS TO BE A KEY ABOUT ME, AND I THINK THAT I SORT OF BALANCE THAT WITH A, WITH A NEED TO PROCESS THINGS.

EXPERIENCES, RELATIONSHIPS, JUST ANY KIND OF THING THAT SORT OF HAPPENS TO ME.

>> NOW, MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT MAY HAVE EXPERIENCED THE ARTWORK HAVE EXPERIENCED IT IN A SMALLER FORMAT.

>> SURE.

>> AND STUFF LIKE THAT, AND YOU ALSO WORK IN THE LARGER FORMAT OF PAINTING.

>> REALLY LARGE PAINTINGS, AND THAT'S FUN TO DO.

>> IS THERE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO PIECES?

DO THEY BALANCE EACH OTHER OFF?

>> WELL, WE USE WORDS AND IM IMAGES, AND DURING RECESSION, WHEN THINGS WERE NOT SELLING THAT WELL, YOU KNOW, I SORT OF NOTICED I SHOULD DO CARDS OR SOMETHING INSTEAD OF TRYING TO SELL BIG PAINTINGS.

AND THAT SORT OF, YOU KNOW, THEY ARE BOTH REALLY DIFFERENT BUT I KIND.

LIKE DOING BOTH AND I THINK BOTH COME FROM MAYBE DIFFERENT SIDES OF MYSELF A BIT.

>> OKAY, SO NOW THIS IS MY PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION -- THE ROMANTIC SIDE OF ME HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN LOVE WITH THE ARTIST BECAUSE I FIND IT FASCINATING TO SEE SOMEONE COMMIT THEMSELVES TO ART AND WHAT COULD BE A VERY TOUGH LIFE TO LIVE.

WHAT IS IT TO LIVE THE LIFE OF AN ARTIST?

>> IT'S REALLY TRICKY SOMETIMES.

DEFINITELY THERE ARE OBSTACLES, BUT I DID COMMIT TO IT.

AND I FELT THAT THAT WAS REALLY, INSTEAD OF SAYING TO MYSELF, WELL, I AM GOING TO GIVE MYSELF A YEAR, I JUST TOTALLY MADE A COMMITMENT TO IT.

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S GOOD, THOUGH.

I THINK YOU SORT OF NEED TO DO THAT.

BUT IT CAN BE TRICKY SOMETIMES.

>> THE CARDS STARTED TO TAKE OFF IN THE SENSE OF PROVIDING -- >> IT SEEMS LIKE BOTH HAS BEEN DOING GOOD.

THE CARDS HAVE BEEN DOING REALLY WELL AND SUGGEST A LOT OF PROMISE, I THINK.

>> WILL THAT BE SOMETHING FOR YOU AS AN ARTIST THAT'S CHALLENGING IN TERMS OF TAKING THE CARDS FARTHER LIKE RIGHT NOW THEY ARE HAND DONE.

>> YES.

ALL THE CARDS ARE HAND COLORED, AND THAT'S WHAT I AM EXPLORING RIGHT NOW, WORKING WITH A PERSON YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH, AND JUST EXPLORING GOING TO ANOTHER LEVEL, BUTTI BUT THE -- PUTTINGE CARDS AND MARKETING AND DISTRIBUTING THEM AND SWITCHING OVER TO REPS AND DOING THAT SORT OF THING.

>> WHAT ABOUT YOUR PAINTINGS?

IT APPEARS YOU ARE STARTING TO GET INTEREST FROM THE GALLERIES AND AT THE MUSEUM LEVEL?

>> I AM GOING TO BE IN A SHOW, AN 11 MONTH SHOW AT THE AMERICAN VISIONARY ART MUSEUM IN BALTIMORE, AND I HAVE HAD SOME INTEREST IN OTHER LITTLE PLACES.

SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO, YOU KNOW, BUT YEAH.

I HAVE GOT SOME INTEREST FROM DIFFERENT PLACES SO THAT'S KIND OF EXCITING.

>> IS IT IMPORTANT TO BE RECOGNIZED AS EITHER A POSSIBLY ARTIST OR WHAT SOME MIGHT CALL IT, OUTSIDER ART OR OUTSIDE THE MAINSTREAM?

>> YEAH.

I THINK LABELS ARE PRETTY HARD SOMETIMES.

I TRY TO CONCENTRATE ON WHAT I DO AND I LEAVE THAT UP TO THE DEALERS OR THE GALLERY OR THE MUSEUM OR WHATEVER.

PEOPLE HAVE A NEED TO DO THAT.

I DON'T REALLY THINK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH.

I AM EXCITED TO BE ACCEPTED BY ANYONE, YOU KNOW.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT THE GALLERY, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ANY INDICATION THAT THE GALLERY MAY TAKE OFF?

YOUR PAINTINGS START TO BE DISCOVERED MORE AND MORE AND START MAKING THE BIG CITY GALLERY SCENE?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY, YOU KNOW.

I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO FIND, YOU KNOW, A PLACE WHERE YOU FIT INTO, YOU KNOW.

SOMETIMES THAT'S HARD.

>> I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS -- IT'S WHAT I DO IS UNIQUE SO I THINK THAT SOMETIMES THAT'S, THAT'S THE HARD THING TO DO, TO FIND A PLACE WHERE OH, YOU REALLY WORK, AND NOW YOU FIT INTO THE GALLERY BUT MAYBE YOUR WORK FITS INTO THE OTHER WORK THAT THEY ARE SHOWING.

SO THAT'S KIND OF IMPORTANT.

>> SO IF YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR DESTINY, WITH YOUR ART AND WHERE YOU WANT TO TAKE IT, WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO?

>> WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP CONTINUE DOING WHAT I AM DOING, DOING THE CARDS, DOING THE PAINTINGS.

I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A GALLERY, FIND A GALLERY IN NEW YORK, MAYBE A FEW OTHER GALLERIES.

DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, IDEALLY.

AND WORKING WITH CHICO, WOULD LOVE IT IF HE COULD INCREASE MY BUSINESS WITH THE CARDS, I THINK I WOULD BE QUITE HAPPY.

>> THANKS A LOT FOR JOINING US HERE ON "POINTS NORTH."

>> THANK YOU.

>> BE WITH US NEXT WEEK WHEN WE WILL TOUR MONTREAL FROM AN INVENTOR'S POINT OF VIEW AND WHY IT TAKES MORE THAN LUCK TO ENSURE GOOD SKIING, AND VISIT WITH KEN BURNS AND DAVE DUNCAN, PRODUCERS OF "LEWIS & CLARK."

UNTIL THEN FOR ALL OF US AT "POINTS NORTH," I'M ROB MICHALAK.

SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

>> FOR MORE CLASSIC PROGRAMS, VISIT VERMONTPBS.ORG/FROMTHEARCHIVES.