♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Alisa Payne, award winning film producer, next on "The Chavis Chronicles".

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we are committed to diversity and understand our responsibility in supporting and empowering diverse communities.

Diversity and inclusion is integral to the way we work.

Supporting the financial health of our diverse customers and employees is one of the many ways we remain invested in inclusion for all, today, tomorrow, and in the future.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to empowering people to choose how they live as they age.

♪ ♪ >> We're very pleased to have an award winning producer, Alisa Payne.

Welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles".

>> I'm humbled to be here.

Thank you so much.

>> Well, we know you're normally on the other side of the camera.

>> Always.

>> This time, we have you because of your great work.

Tell us about "Between Me and the World".

>> So it's based off of Ta-Nehisi Coates' bestselling book, right?

It's a book that he wrote at a time when Michael Brown was killed and he had a son that was 15 years old.

And so, he wanted to just try to explain, give some context about being a black man in America to this child who really had a loss of innocence at 15.

And so, he wrote this book as a letter to his child.

It was well-received.

His friend and director, the director of the film, Kamilah Forbes, had this concept for the film and called me to do it.

And I was thrilled, especially after what we -- we did it in the summer of 2020.

Right?

And so, I'm going to bring you back a bit.

In 2020, we were in the pandemic and in the pandemic, within the pandemic, we were seeing more and more black lives, black bodies being destroyed by police, right?

So, we had George Floyd, and everyone was captive, right?

We were home, so people could actually watch it.

And then we heard about Breonna Taylor, who had happened previously.

Right?

And then Ahmaud Arbery.

So in summer of 2020, the world, the young people, older people were reacting to what they were seeing, the destruction of black bodies on television, and they thought we should do this as a film project.

They called me.

I was thrilled to do it.

And instead of making it one man's story to his son, we decided that it's not limited to black men only.

It affects children and affects women, et cetera.

And so we made it with different voices telling about black people's experience in it.

And we wanted to show the full range of black people's experience in America.

>> [ Crowd chanting "Black Lives Matter!"

] >> I love you and I love the world.

And I love it more with every new inch I discover.

You are a black boy.

>> ♪ You know the way that we living is not getting better ♪ ♪ You got to know how to survive ♪ >> You cannot forget how much they took from us.

How they transfigured our very bodies into sugar, tobacco, cotton, and gold.

>> I'm so thrilled that we did that.

We did that within 16 weeks in a pandemic, like, at the height of pandemic.

Sometimes I hear people say that they made a film in the pandemic.

And I'm like, "Did you really?

You're making it post-vaccine and booster pandemic."

It's totally different than when we made it in August 2020.

>> Well, it's been well received.

What's your evaluation of the importance of capturing the visual image to tell the story or to expand the narrative, not just to create empathy, but to promote social transformation to prevent some of these tragedies from happening in the first place?

>> I'm making a film right now, "Stamped from the Beginning".

It's based on Dr. Ibram Kendi's book of the same name, for Netflix.

And we talk about just the use of popular culture, right?

And that's a contemporary term.

But in medieval days, it was art, it was music, it was religion, right?

Religious texts.

Think about Frederick Douglass, someone who was the most photographed person in his century, who understood that people seeing him, seeing him in these suits, et cetera, would evoke a feeling about black excellence, right?

Think about your part of the civil rights movement, Dr. King, and all of the people that we saw and how they presented themselves.

>> Those images were very important.

>> And also seeing the images that -- seeing children being hosed down and police unleashing dogs on children.

Right?

And adults.

And so, that's very powerful.

Even the Panthers, right?

Seeing these people walking around with their berets and saying that they're not going to take it.

Again, different.

It inspired black power and black beauty, right?

And then think about when we move forward now and we see that all of these things have seeds in civil rights, right?

So we know that.

Like, we'd speak to someone like Brittany Packnett Cunningham and she talks about, like, having the threads to pull from, right?

Knowing how they used images in civil rights.

Even Ida B.

Wells, her stats and everything else.

So when we go to a George Floyd, we understand that those 9 minutes had a real impact, mostly because the audience was captive, right?

Because we were also all at home at a time when we could not go out.

You could not turn away from it, right?

And it's the same with Ferguson.

>> It went all over the world.

Not just in America.

It was all over the world.

>> You heard people after that in different tongues saying Black Lives Matter and everything else, right?

You can make it out.

Some people speak English, some not.

At the end of "Between the World and Me", I think one of my major creative contributions was showing -- We do a clip where we show that the Edmund Pettus Bridge in the sixties and then the march during the 2020 summer, and then we take it overseas and you hear these people, "Black Lives Matter!

Black Lives Matter!"

and you hear people in Asia, and you don't know what they're saying, but you know that they're saying the same thing, right?

And so it's so powerful.

I think what the civil rights movement did here was really show people in the north, right, and get their empathy and get them to respond and really feel aghast about what was happening in the South.

And I think that what the BLM movement and social media is doing in that video with George Floyd does is take it, like you said, really globally so other people understand you have someone begging for his mother, right?

Whether or not he had a counterfeit bill, is it worth this man losing his life, pleading for his life with no one helping him?

>> Calling out for his mother.

>> Yeah, calling out for his mother.

>> Do you see more of these films having an impact?

I guess the real reason why I'm asking this question, Alisa,, what can be done to solve America's race problem?

>> Yeah.

So, "1619", I'm consulting producer on it, and it's a series actually.

So the first season is six episodes.

It's going to be on Hulu, then ABC is supposed to be doing town hall, et cetera.

Oprah Winfrey is exec producing it, of course.

"The New York Times" with Nikole Hannah-Jones.

I'm hoping that "1619" will be the "Roots" of its time, right?

I remember being on those -- like, when we were developing -- >> In the 1970s, when "Roots" came out.

Alex Haley.

>> Yeah, and I remember -- And I remember meeting LeVar Burton and Leslie Uggams when I was in news and I went up to -- >> Kunta Kinte.

>> Yes.

And Kizzy.

Okay, any time I would play a video game when I was young, I would make my name Kizzy, and people would be like, "What's going on with you?"

But I met them and I was like, "I just love 'Roots.'"

And I was smiling.

And Leslie Uggams said, "Darling, I've never met anyone glowing about 'Roots' the way you are."

But that's the producer in me, right?

I understood even then, before I even was considering, right?

Before I was considering this path, I understood how powerful that was and what impact it made on me and other people, and it made around the world, right?

That's what I'm hoping that "1619" will be, the "Roots" of its time, that it really sparks conversation.

I mean, you know, it's getting banned already.

We hear it in Ketanji -- They talk about "1619" in Ketanji Brown Jackson's -- in her hearings, right?

>> They were trying to use that to try to disqualify her.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> And even now, they are banning books.

Talking about STEM and math.

They're banning math books in Florida.

>> Well, you know, "1619" is banned.

"Antiracist Baby" Ted Cruz also held up, which is the other -- "How to Be an Antiracist" is the other book by Dr. Ibram Kendi.

We're using "Stamped from the Beginning" as the one I'm making into a film that's going to be on Netflix next year.

And so, to answer your question, it's interesting because we really have to attack white supremacy where it is.

We really have to talk about -- You are either trying to be anti-racist, right, or you are not.

You can't be both.

You either have to be believing that, unfortunately, that America's policies are predicated on keeping some people in power and others out of power and be working towards that.

If we are not all working towards that, then we will not solve it.

And it doesn't only affect -- as you know, it does not only affect black people.

It affects poor people all over.

That includes white people.

You know, one of the things that Nikole Hannah-Jones talks about in "1619" is -- And it's a great book -- "The Sum of Us", Heather McGhee.

I'm reading that now.

She talks about that poor white people will vote against their own self-interest, what will be good for them, to keep black people and other minorities out because our democracy is made on this lie that in order for you to progress, you have to keep these others down.

And so, until we are fighting white supremacy, white supremacist policies, et cetera, we will not see a change, as you all know.

>> Young people.

>> Yes.

>> Generation Z, millennials.

>> They're going to save -- Z is going to save us.

Z is going to save us.

I have two -- >> Say that with a sense of optimism.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

Z is going to save us.

My daughter -- I have two teenagers at home.

A 14 and a 17 year old.

They are sharp.

They understand how to use image in a way that I never did.

My daughter said to me, "I could be a producer, but I see how much stress it puts you under, so I'm going to be a judge instead."

And I'm like, "'Cause that's not stressful, right?"

They understand image.

They breathe it in, like editing and other things in, like, water, right?

They understand pronouns.

They want to make sure that people are respected for who they are, right?

They understand -- They get their news in little snippets on social media and then they research it after.

Z is very shrewd.

Millennials, I don't know.

Z's -- I have my faith on Z. I'm betting on Generation Z.

>> You need to do a film on Zs.

>> I will probably.

I really believe in Generation Z. I do.

I tell them all the time.

They're the ones that are going to save us.

>> So talk about the importance of being a mother to your family.

>> Yeah, I mean, you know, I have a really great support system at home.

And I think it's interesting because my children have come with me when I produced in Africa, right?

Right before my son was going to do an Africa study, I could say to him, "Listen, you were in Equatorial Guinea.

You saw how lush it was.

You saw how beautiful it is.

You see how your people have contributed to culture.

So don't let them tell you that everything is Sub-Saharan Africa.

Don't let them talk to you only about animals and landmasses.

Let's go in and talk about culture, right?"

And so, I was able -- this career has given me that.

I've been able to -- my children are both in "Between the World and Me".

My son is going to be -- he was an extra for a shoot, a test shoot that we did in "Stamped from the Beginning", my Netflix film that's coming out next year, and he's ending up being in the real film.

So they've had these opportunities now.

For them, it's been so long.

It's part of their life.

But I think that it's really afforded them, you know, this opportunity to also see that you can be impactful in your work, right?

And so, we've always -- I'm from Grenada, so my father always, no matter what, we always were in the community.

I was doing a voter registration drive, I was feeding the homeless.

I was always doing something.

But I think that they see that you can do that.

When we were making "Between the World and Me", my family and I were -- we were actually -- we were protesting, right?

So we were protesting while I was making this film, right?

While I was doing that.

And they can see that you can have that -- you can do this in your personal and private life and your career life, right?

And so I think that's important.

Now, neither of them want to do this.

My son is about to go to Northwestern in the fall, and he wants to be a dentist.

My daughter wants to be a judge.

But I think that they both understand how important it is to be working, even if it's privately, for the liberation of black people and marginalized people.

>> You have colleagues in the producers world.

Of course, part of getting a major film project is the funding,the financing.

>> Yeah.

>> Tell us, are you seeing -- is there a shift, is there a trend... >> Yeah.

>> ...to see that these films could be commercially successful or financially sustainable?

Talk about that.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I always say I've been working in this industry for 20 years -- for 20 years before I became an overnight success, right?

So I had been working in this since I was about six months out of college, and "Between the World and Me" catapulted me, right?

And again, I think it was just the perfect timing.

It was the perfect storm of these media companies and other people taking an interest.

But I also think now, the floodgates are open.

We have given so many black creators opportunities.

They're like, "Go."

The black creators are now doing -- You know, we have Mara Brock Akil, who had done "Girlfriends" and other things.

She had a big deal with Netflix.

Netflix gave so many -- Regina King, Shonda Rhimes, all of these people.

Tyler Perry, who no matter how you feel about his work, this man created a huge studio working outside of the Hollywood structure, right?

Until they sued him to say, "No, no, no, you have to pay our unions."

And then they got involved, right?

But at first, they wanted nothing to do with that.

And he showed a whole path to that.

Issa Rae, right, who's now really successful, too, started with her show on YouTube.

So I think that black creators are understanding that there are so many paths to it that you don't have to do it, and then everybody else is catching up.

>> So, you're saying the business side is catching up with the cultural change?

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

We're no longer waiting for people to finance.

We're making projects ourselves.

And I will say that, like I said, that during -- after 2020, there has been an interest.

Will it be sustained?

I don't know that I am that optimistic about that, right?

But I think that there has been interest.

I think we're going to see an ebb and flow, right?

We're going to see an ebb because we've had the flow.

But I also noticed, like, Will Smith's company, for example, Westbrook, their company felt like the future.

They were getting corporations like Logitech and other corporations that don't do anything in media to just invest in these projects based on, you know, his name and what he was pitching in terms of the projects.

You know, Jada Pinkett Smith doing -- >> They just did something on Emmett Till.

>> Yeah.

Facebook and other things.

Like, you know, really understanding that there are these other places that you can do it because I don't know many people who watch network television in the way that I did growing up, right, and then even cable -- A lot of people are streaming from their computers, right?

And so you have all these streaming services.

What we saw is an uptick in all of the streamers.

There was Netflix, of course, and there was Amazon, but then you have Paramount+ and CNN+ and all of these -- HBO Max -- all of these streaming services, because people are understanding that -- the companies are understanding that people are getting it all from their phone and from their computers.

Young people, my children don't watch TV like that unless we call them upstairs to do that.

Everything is streaming.

>> Do you see -- The success that you are experiencing here in the United States, did you see that expanding even back to a place called Grenada or other parts of the Caribbean or in Brazil or in Africa?

What's your perspective of the globalization of the work that you're doing inside of America?

>> Yeah, I would hope so.

I know that Netflix had expanded into Africa, and like I said, I think that as more and more streamers are coming in, you can just go on and download and buy a subscription that -- all of these streamers are competing for a global economy, right?

Because you can only get so many subscribers in America.

And after you're tapped out, you're tapped out.

And so, yes, I think that my stuff goes overseas, right?

HBO, what we call linear, doesn't go overseas.

However, HBO Max does.

So I had people in Grenada telling me, "Oh, I saw it on -- Oh, I saw your film.

Oh, I'm so proud of you.

I saw your film in Grenada," you know?

So, that thing, right?

Because HBO Max can do that.

And I think streamers are opening up the world, and the world's smaller.

>> We have a very diverse audience that watches "The Chavis Chronicles".

>> Yes.

Yes.

>> If somebody wanted to follow in your footsteps... >> Oh, yes.

>> ...what are the steps to becoming a film producer in light of everything you share, particularly the digitalization transformation, the technology transformation, to be an effective film producer?

What's your recommendation?

>> Well, I think that -- I always tell people, do not discount your experience in your personal life.

I'm the second child of four.

My older sibling is a boy.

And so, you know, my mother is like, "You do it all."

So, I was managing a household of six by the time I was 12.

What do I do in my life now?

I manage over 200 people.

I always tell people all the time that I'm the mother of everyone you see in the credits.

I deal with different types of people.

I deal with all of the motions.

I deal with crew people.

I deal with staff people, actors, you know, all in between, right?

>> Sounds like a scientific matrix.

>> Yes, exactly.

Exactly.

It's a matrix.

It's a network.

All of it.

And I manage all that.

Sometimes, I'll pull someone aside in "Between the World and Me" and I'll take someone aside.

I try to keep my directors in a bubble, and my director would come back and say, "What is that about?"

I'm like, "Oh, you know, everyone has feelings.

It's just feelings.

We're dealing with emotions."

So never discount what you bring to the table with your life experience, right?

Empathy and all the things that you've learned growing up, right?

And then it's really trying to learn the business and trying to do -- I didn't take media studies.

I studied biochemistry in school, and so on my first job -- >> So, did you have a mentor, a mentorship, apprenticeship, or you just jumped in?

>> On my first job.

So, this story, I was disenchanted, didn't want to be in the lab, was the youngest person, was the only woman, was the only black person, only person not married, only person not from Long Island.

I'm like, "What am I going to do?

Am I going to go to med school?

Do I want to do that?"

See Queen Latifah on the television, talking.

After "SNL", there was a show called "One World" -- "Russell Simmons' One World Music Beat".

She's talking and she says she's going to have this talk show.

She's going to take from the rich and give to the poor.

Does this sound like Grenada?

Take from the rich and give to the poor.

She's going to save young people.

I'm like, "Forward ever, backward never."

This is what I was meant to do.

It's in my blood, right?

And so I start to try to research this show.

This is before the Internet was really the Internet as we know it.

And I'm trying to figure out.

And then one day, I see a commercial.

"Do you want to meet a relative?

Call 1-800-Queen-Latifah, or whatever the number was.

I have all of my college friends calling that number.

And one day, someone picks up and I say, "I know all of my relatives.

I just really want to come to work with Queen Latifah."

And I go in, I go to my college, I get 500 petitions signed because if she's trying to -- Dr. Chavis, if she is trying to affect young people, why is her show coming on at 9:00 AM while the young people are in school?

We have to change this time.

So I'm naive.

I go, I get 500 petitions, I bring them with me, and they love me on-site.

They give me an internship that I turn into a job, right?

And so what are the lessons in that?

I was resourceful.

I kept calling and trying to do this thing.

I was researched.

I researched what I was going to.

I cared about it.

I showed that I was passionate.

I brought these petitions.

We know 500 petitions cannot do anything, but it showed them how passionate I was about her mission and what she was doing.

They told me later they threw it away, but they really liked me.

I was smart.

I always asked questions.

I wanted to know everything, how to pull tapes, how to pull clips, how to do everything.

I would chase -- Producers would be running down the stairs and I would be running after them, asking them questions about things and always helping to pitch shows.

Just everything.

Never thought that anything was too little or too big for me to do.

And I remember one day talking to Queen Latifah herself and saying, you know, "If this show gets canceled, I'm part of your mission.

I'm not here because I want to be in entertainment.

I'm here for a mission.

So if it gets canceled, I will go back to being a scientist."

And she says, "Lis, with your passion, with your, you know, your work ethic, et cetera, you will never go back.

Your personality."

And so she said, so it was.

Be resourceful, research, hard work, be creative, you know, try the nontraditional path.

My path was very traditional.

I went to television and then I came over.

And I will say this, though -- I did say earlier that, you know, I worked 20 years to be an overnight success.

You never know what the thing was.

I was working at the Apollo Theater just filling in for someone else.

They called me to say, "Hey, we would love to have you just come in and work."

I'm like, "Oh, okay."

I came in, worked with the exec producer at the Apollo, who was the director between "The World and Me".

She knew my background.

Her and I worked on a benefit for the Apollo that ended up being broadcasted because of the pandemic.

I offered to do that.

Never did I think the Apollo was going to be the thing that would catapult me to being an overnight success.

>> You keep saying an overnight success, but listening to your journey, your story, you prepared for the success.

Alisa Payne.

>> Yes.

>> Producer extraordinaire.

>> Oh.

>> Thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles".

>> Thank you so much.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at thechavischronicles.com.

Also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we are committed to diversity and understand our responsibility in supporting and empowering diverse communities.

Diversity and inclusion is integral to the way we work.

Supporting the financial health of our diverse customers and employees is one of the many ways we remain invested in inclusion for all, today, tomorrow, and in the future.

American Petroleum Institute.

Through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apienergyexcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to empowering people to choose how they live as they age.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪