[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters."

I'm Ken Paulson.

Our guest today is Allen Shamblin, a man who has had a distinguished career as a songwriter, and who has written some of the biggest hits of the last 30 years.

Delighted to have you here, Allen.

- Thank you Ken, good to be here.

- Not only are you a member the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, you are also on the board?

- Yes.

Clear.

- So you're a real big deal.

[laughs] - No, I'm not.

- Well, ah, well, you are widely respected among your peers and, and for a good reason.

Ah, by my count, you've only been in this town, what is it, 30 years?

- About 31.

- 31 years?

- This August.

Yeah.

- And do you know the date you rolled into Nashville?

- August 11, 1987.

- Wow.

- Yeah.

- It's sorta- you remember that like a birthday or anniversary.

- I totally remember driving right through Nashville not knowing where I was going and ended up at a Motel 6 on Dickerson Road.

[laughs] - Did you mean to go to the Motel 6?

- I didn't even know where I was going.

[laughs] I had to ask somebody the next day, "Where's Music Row?"

[laughs] You know.

- Motel 6 is pretty much the capital of [laughs] songwriting, in Nashville.

Ah, so did you know what you were doing?

What you were getting in, in, into and- - I, uh, [sighs] Ken, you know, I went to college, got my marketing degree, I was in real estate appraiser in Austin, Texas and just totally miserable.

And I started writing songs, I was 25 when I started writing songs, So, ah, in a very short time my songs reached Martha Sharp at Warner Brothers, and, and her and Barry Beckett flew to Austin.

I met them, they encouraged me to move here and- to Nashville, and, um, I didn't write another song for two years.

I had massive writer's block because I was so blown away that my first songs had kind of opened some doors.

But, so yeah, when I came here, ah, in August of '87, ah, this is what I was doing.

I burned all my boats, I, I didn't have much money, ah, but I had a dream, so that's what brought me here.

- It's remarkable that you were so good that professionals would pay attention to a total amateur.

- Yeah.

- But, ah, do you remember what you submitted to them that got their attention?

- I, you know, it's, it's crazy, Ken, I'd-, the songs, one of them was called, ah, "I Think It's a Good Thing I Ain't Crazy."

[laughs] A real silly song, but, ah, that song I was reading the lyric to a buddy of mine at, ah, Wyatt's Cafeteria in Austin, and the lady standing right there tapped me on the shoulder, asked me if I wrote this song, and I told her I did and- long story short, she said, "I might be able to help you."

- Wow.

- And it was Martha Sharp's best friend.

- Oh my goodness.

- Linda Orsak, and Linda's brother-in-law is Johny Gimble, the legendary fiddle player.

So he helped, he played fiddle on my songs and that's what we sent to Martha.

- Wow.

- First song, first few songs I ever wrote.

- Wow.

So the lesson is to eat at Wyatt's Cafe.

- Eat at Wyatt's every day.

[laughs] If I was still there I'd go there every day.

- Um, well, you had success very quickly within a couple of years, you have a number one record, and I understand that was based on a member of your family?

- My great-grandfather, ah, but that song came, you know, when I moved here, I started parking cars, I was loading boxes, working in warehouse, doing anything, ah, to pay the bills.

And it wasn't going that great and, uh, Pat Halper, a good friend of mine, and my publisher encouraged me to go back to Texas, reconnect with my roots, and come back to Nashville and write by myself.

And I'd been co-writing- and honestly, I still had writer's block.

I moved here, not having written a song in a couple of years and I went to Texas, came back, and the first song I wrote after going back to Texas was, "He Walked on Water" about my great grandfather who had actually been a real-life cowboy around Galveston area.

- And you knew your great-grandfather?

- I met him one time, that I remember, uh, my mother brought him over to our house when I was about four years old, five, um, and I was fascinated with him.

He was in his 90s and he told me cowboy stories and- - [laughs] - And he became my hero.

- That became a huge hit for Randy Travis.

- Yeah.

- Can we hear some of that now?

- Sure.

[gentle guitar music] ♪ He wore starched white shirts, buttoned at the neck ♪ ♪ He'd sit in the shade and watch the chickens peck ♪ ♪ And his teeth were gone, but what the heck.

♪ ♪ I thought that he walked on water.

♪ [gentle guitar music] ♪ Said he was a cowboy when he was young, ♪ ♪ Could handle a rope he was good with a gun.

♪ ♪ And my mama's daddy was his oldest son, ♪ ♪ And I thought that he walked on water.

♪♪ [gentle guitar music] - There goes the writer's block.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Is that what happened?

- That's what happened, and then, you know, I- when I moved here I was chasing what I thought would be a hit.

I was trying too hard.

I was trying to imagine what the stars would say and, um, that was the first song that I stopped looking out there and went in here, after I moved to town and it it, opened a lot of doors for me in the world, but it also opened a lot of doors in my heart and mind about how to approach this from that moment forward.

- That, ah, actually explains a lot of your body of work, I think.

Um, I don't- I'm, I'm sure they're not all personal stories but they feel like they're coming from there.

- I have to find something in my heart, no matter what I'm writing, that I can attach to that idea that whether I've lived it or not, if I can find some joy or some pain that I can lay over that idea and find a place, then I, then I can get into it.

But if I can't find that, I'm pretty much dead in the water.

- I suppose, all of us can find "Don't Laugh at Me" somewhere in our life experiences.

- Whew!

Yeah, it's it's, been an amazing journey with that song.

I mean, the people that you wouldn't expect, that look like they have it all together and perfect in every way physically, financially, have come up to me and said that song has meant something to 'em.

Ah, somewhere along the, the road in their life, they were made fun of somehow or felt less than, you know, but, ah- - And what inspired that for you?

- [sigh] Our daughters, ah, Ashley and Lindsay, started wearing glasses, two weeks apart, and Ashley was six, and Lindsay was three.

And they were in Mother's Day Out and some little girl had mentioned something to my daughter about her glasses, you know, I don't know, w-w-w-- you know, exactly what she called her, but it, it, really bothered me and I was always the shortest kid in my class and, and, so, it was born out of that.

And then when Steve Seskin, my co-writer, came into town, I ran the idea by Steve and we, we ah, pretty much remembered verses wrote.

You know, we just sat down and, you know, just thought about our childhoods, our children, and the song poured out, yeah.

- And that ended up in the hands of Peter, Paul, and Mary.

- It eventually- Peter Yarrow heard Steve Seskin sing the song around a campfire in Kerrville, Texas.

- Wow.

- And uh, Peter Yarrow, ah, started Operation Respect and has taken this song into thousands upon thousands of schools.

It's curricula in schools and it's around the world now in many different languages.

Yeah.

- That's got to be a little humbling.

- It really is, it really is.

And I mean, you know, to hear Mark Wills, who played a big part in this initially, Mark was the one who recorded it, took it number one, about how there was some resistance to even put it on the record and, and, uh, how he pulled up to a corner in Nashville, right as the line in the song.

"I don't think I don't notice our eyes never meet."

There was a homeless guy on the corner right when that line- and he said you turned around and went back to the label and said he'd like to record it, so, yeah.

- That's um- It's, it's, ah, it's the rare song- there are, um, there are some that have a, this afterlife.

- Yeah.

- That ah, that do a lot of good and, and, uh, and clearly that's one of them.

Was it a surprise to you that, that Mark Wills can make that into a hit?

- Well, [sighs] you know, ah, they're all on some level surprises, you know.

We're grateful for them all.

I mean, we don't know which ones will make their ways into the world and people will find them useful somehow.

But, I remember Steve and I that day when we finished it, wondering if we- in the verses we say, "I'm this I'm that," you know, "I'm the kid on-" and, and we didn't know for sure if it worked, but Steve played it at the Bluebird Cafe that night, called me the next day and said, "It works."

[laughs] - And I started playing it and the reaction was so strong, I thought it had a shot.

- Well, a song you wrote with Mike Reed, "I Can't Make You Love Me", um, is one of those once-in-a-lifetime songs and, ah, I have to believe that when you wrote it, you thought you had something special, um, but I also have to believe that when you got into Bonnie Raitt's hands, you knew you had something special.

- Oh, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, at some point, you'll talk to Mike Reed about this, I'm sure, and we worked on it several months, off and on, and it- we originally wrote it as an up-tempo Bluegrass song and worked on it for months that way.

But, one day, I showed up to Mike's house to write, we were writing once a week, and he called me into the living room, said, "I want to play you something."

and he sat down on his grand piano and laid his big old hands on the keys and started playing that melody, didn't tell me what it was to, and then started singing the words that we had written earlier, over this brand new melody.

And I still get chills thinking about that moment because, yeah, I, I had a sense that this was very special.

- I cannot hear that as an uptempo bluegrass song.

[laughs] - Not many people can.

[laughter] - But we tried.

We were, we were trying.

- Sounds exuberant.

- Yes, yes.

- Um, so how did the great Bonnie Raitt get her hands on this?

- You know, we had- [sighs] Mike had just had a song recorded on our previous album called, "Too Soon to Tell" and Bonnie's a big fan of Mike's, as I am, and a lot of people that know Mike are, and, ah, I took the song into my publisher, Pat Halper, and she called Mary Martin and Mary had a mailing address for Bonnie.

And Mike wrote a little note, I don't remember exactly what he said, but a little short note to Bonnie, put it in a cassette in a mailer, and sent it to a P.O.

box in Mendocino.

And then I came in one day and everybody was excited and they hit play on the, the old phone recorder and there was Bonnie Raitt, who'd called about 2 AM sayin', "I'd like to hold "I Can't Make You Love Me."

"I think I'm going to record it."

Whew.

And that was a moment.

- Yeah.

It's a powerful song and it would work with many artists but especially Bonnie Raitt.

- Aw!

Bonnie gave- I feel like she's, she was the one who birthed it into the world as far as artists goes, yeah.

- So, if you talk to somebody who is as green as you were- - Mm-hm.

- when you came to Nashville, is there anything you can tell them that helps them, or is, is the path of songwriting largely what's in your gut and in your head and your heart?

- You know, I feel like I wasted a little time chasing, trying to figure it all out and, and figure out what a hit song is.

And, I would just say, I think Beth Neilsen Chapman said it as best I've heard it said it's just, "Write your deepest joys and your deepest sorrows "and let that be your true reward as a songwriter "and the rest will take care of itself."

Um, that might be what I'd say.

- Well, um, we talked a, a bit earlier about the Songwriters Hall of Fame, of course, honors songwriters in addition to a multimedia display that shows you in all your glory, there are steps leading up to the, the Hall of Fame here in Nashville, that have the name of, of, ah, your biggest song or one of the songs that you are most proud of, and I know that yours is "The House That Built Me" and we will we will get to that, I promise you.

But if you had three steps, leading up to that one- -Yeah.

- What would they be?

- As far as songs?

- Songs that are almost in league with that for you.

- Uh, well, I have to go back to "He Walked on Water" just because that was the- where I had so many epiphanies.

And that was the door- I was trying so hard.

And, and, then "I Can't Make You Love Me" was right on the heels of, ah, "He Walked on Water" and, ah- Well, you know, Ken, that's a tough question, you know, after that was, "Don't Laugh at Me" so, they they, pretty much all kind of led into that.

- Yeah, it's a- and you can't base it on its sales alone.

- Yeah, no, no, no, no.

- So you said when you went back to Texas, you started writing alone.

And, then you end up shaking the block.

- Yeah.

- And now we're talking about some of your biggest hits and you're writing with people.

- Yes, absolutely.

- So can you talk a little about the dynamics there?

- Yeah.

I mean, before I went back to Texas and reconnected with my roots and my heart.

And so, I was, um- I'd sit in a writing room and just automatically assume that the other person knew more than me, they'd had hit songs, I would edit myself.

Um, and then after "He Walked on Water" where I'd connected to something true in me, I started bringing that back to the co-writing and I was a different co-writer.

Up to that point I th- I was more of a cheerleader.

I silently had writer's block.

I was going in there not even knowing if I could write a song.

So, I, I bring a lot of energy, a lot of passion, hopefully bring an idea, cheer my co-writer on, and, and kind of leave my heart outside the room.

After "He Walked on Water" I started inviting my heart to the table.

- Hmm.

Very well put.

Well, let's talk about the song that was Miranda Lambert's number one record, and, ah, and "This is The House That Built Me" written with Tom Douglas?

- Yes.

- And Tom has, like you, um, head from the heart approach, I think.

And, ah, do you guys sit down to write that for anyone?

- No, I mean, it was just the idea and it was, the idea was pregnant with passion and, and, memories, and tears, and laughter.

I mean, just that idea thinking of the home that I grew up in in Texas that it was a big deal.

My parents planned that home and my dad was an engineer, and, ah, a lot of thought, forethought, went into that.

So building that home and writing our names in the concrete and the memories, it was, um, it was, a big deal in my life and my childhood was we're going to build a house, and we're going to live in that house, you know?

And, ah, so, once we had the idea- it was another song where it was more remembering than writing.

It was- those images are pretty much 100%, as far as I know, either straight out of my life or Tom's life.

I mean, there's nothing that I know that's fabricated in there.

I mean, you know, even in the bridge where the singer comes back home, uh, that's something I've done for 31 years or ever since I- longer than that.

Since I graduated high school, once a year, I go back to Huffman Texas, I go through the Dairy Queen and I get a Coke and I drive by my old house.

And that is a recalibration for me because from the front yard of that house I can see my life clearer somehow.

- And the house is still there?

- The house is there, yes.

- I assume it has a big plaque on the front.

[laughs] -No.

-The childhood home of Allen Shamblin - No, I don't even know if they know, it's- you know, I don't even know if they know.

- With real estate prices going up all over my house was flattened in suburban Chicago, so, so, that- I don't have that experience but I can find the Dairy Queen - Yeah.

- and my old high school.

Um, so, I'm going to, ask you, to, to do this song but I'm going to ask you to do it in its entirety, ah- People need to hear every word of this song.

- Okay.

[gentle guitar plays] ♪ I know they say you can't go home again, ♪ ♪ but I just had to come back one last time.

♪ ♪ And ma'am, I know you don't know me from Adam.

♪ ♪ But those handprints on the front steps ♪ ♪ they're mine.

♪ ♪ And up those stairs in that little back bedroom ♪ ♪ Is where I did my homework and I learned to play guitar ♪ ♪ And I bet you didn't know under that live oak, ♪ ♪ My favorite dog is buried in the yard.

♪ ♪ And, I thought, if I could touch this place or feel it ♪ ♪ This brokenness inside me might start healing.

♪ ♪ And out here it's like I'm someone else.

♪ ♪ I thought that maybe I could find myself.

♪ ♪ If I could just come in, I swear, I'll leave.

♪ ♪ Won't take nothing but a memory ♪ ♪ From the house that built me.

♪ [gentle guitar] ♪ Well, Mama cut out pictures of houses for years.

♪ ♪ From Better Homes and Gardens magazines.

♪ ♪ The plans were drawn the concrete poured, ♪ ♪ Nail by nail, and board by board.

♪ ♪ Daddy gave life to mama's dream.

♪ ♪ And I thought if I could touch this place or feel it ♪ ♪ This brokenness inside me might start healing.

♪ ♪ And I hear it's like I'm someone else.

♪ ♪ I thought that maybe I could find myself ♪ ♪ If I could just come in I swear I'll leave.

♪ ♪ Won't take nothing but a memory ♪ ♪ From the house that built me.

♪ ♪ You leave home, you move on, ♪ ♪ And you do the best you can.

♪ ♪ Well, I got lost in this old world and forgot ♪ ♪ Who I am.

♪ ♪ And I thought if I could touch this place or feel it ♪ ♪ This brokenness inside me might start healing.

♪ ♪ And out here it's like I'm someone else.

♪ ♪ I thought that maybe I could find myself.

♪ ♪ If I could walk around I swear I'll leave.

♪ ♪ Won't take nothing but a memory ♪ ♪ From the house that built me.

♪♪ [gentle guitar] - That's just great.

- Thank you.

- There is this universality and depth to all your songs.

- Thank you.

- Um, do you wake up some days and just want to write a polka?

[laughs] You know, I did write a song called, "I Like Frogs" one day.

[laughs] - Well, I'm relieved 'cause- - Yeah.

- You're carrying a very big burden around.

[big sigh] - But, it's a, we talked earlier about a song getting to Bonnie Raitt.

- Yeah.

- How does one get a song to Miranda Lambert?

- Whew.

I don't know.

But I'm glad it got there.

No, I do know.

It, it initially went through Scott Hendricks and it was on hold for Blake Shelton, and, ah, the way I remember it is Miranda telling Tom and I was, ah, Blake had picked her up at an airport in Oklahoma, I guess it was Oklahoma City, and she got into his car, a truck, and was telling him she was having a hard time finding songs and he said, "Well, maybe there's one on my comp CD."

And, I think she said it was the fourth song in on the CD in his truck she heard, "The House That Built Me" and it really resonated with her.

And, ah, the irony is she said on the plane she was thinking about her childhood home and then within a short time she heard the song.

- Well, it helps to have a major star record your stuff right?

- Yeah, it helps immensely.

Yeah.

- You haven't written with a lot of artists though, have you?

- No, I haven't.

I, I, I- No, I haven't.

- Well, your approach has worked out very well.

[laughter] - Well, um, in the short time we have left, I wonder if we could ask you to do a song of your choice, you've got a rich catalog, anything you'd like to play whether we discussed or not, could you please give us your take on that?

- Sure.

[gentle guitar plays] ♪ I'm a little boy with glasses.

♪ ♪ The one they call a geek ♪ ♪ A little girl who never smiles ♪ ♪ Because I've got braces on my teeth.

♪ ♪ And I know how it feels to cry myself to sleep.

♪ ♪ And I'm that kid on every playground ♪ ♪ Who's always chosen last.

♪ ♪ A single teenage mother ♪ ♪ Trying to overcome my past.

♪ ♪ You don't have to be my friend ♪ ♪ But is it too much to ask?

♪ ♪ Don't laugh at me.

♪ ♪ Don't call me names.

♪ ♪ Don't get your pleasure from my pain.

♪ ♪ In God's eyes, we're all the same.

♪ ♪ Someday, we'll all have perfect wings.

♪ ♪ Don't laugh at me.

♪♪ [gentle guitar] - Allen, thank you so much.

- Thank you, Ken.

- It's been a pleasure.

- Enjoyed it.

[gentle guitar music] - For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, please visit, nashvillesongwritersfoundation .com [gentle guitar music]