>>> WELL, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY JANET YELLEN IS REJECTING RECESSION FEARS POINTING TO THE STRONG LABOR MARKET AND EASING INFLATION.

PRISCILLA SIMS BROWN IS THE CEO OF AMALGAMATED BANK, ONE OF THE ONLY UNIONIZED BANKS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND SHE JOINED WALTER ISAACSON SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE AND THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA, AND PRISCILLA BROWN, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> WE'VE BEEN SPENDING THIS PAST FEW MONTHS WORRYING ABOUT A RECESSION, ABOUT HARD LANDINGS, EVERYTHING ELSE, AND LAST WEEK WE GOT SOME GREAT ECONOMIC NEWS.

INFLATION IS PRETTY FAR DOWN.

UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN.

AS SOMEBODY WHO RUNS A GREAT COMMUNITY BANK, DO YOU THINK WE'RE IN FOR A SOFT LANDING IN A SAFE ECONOMY NOW?

>> WELL, I WON'T HAZARD A GUESS, WALTER.

MANY HAVE DONE IT.

BUT I WILL SAY THAT THE INDICATORS ARE GOOD, NOT ONLY THOSE THAT YOU REFERENCED BUT ALSO ANECDOTALLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH OUR OWN CUSTOMERS.

>> WHAT ARE YOU SEEING WITH YOUR OWN CUSTOMERS?

HOW ARE DEPOSITS GOING?

>> GOZS ARE GOING WELL.

QUARTER, WHICH IN THIS ENVIRONMENT IS A GOOD THING.

WE'RE ALSO SEEING REAL ENCOURAGEMENT AMONG OUR OWN KMURZ, A LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE THAT GIVES ME HOPE.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO TAKE OUT LOANS, START BUSINESSES, GROW AGAIN?

>> YES, I DO.

I THINK IN THE CASE OF OUR CUSTOMERS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CHANGE MAKERS, PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING GOOD IN THE WORLD, AND WHETHER THAT BE RELATED TO CLIMATE OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THESE ARE THINGS -- THESE ARE PROJECTS THAT ARE REALLY CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO OUR SOCIETY AND OUR CUSTOMERS ARE AS ENTHUSIASTIC AS EVER ABOUT GETTING THOSE THINGS DONE.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR CUSTOMERS BEING CHANGE MAKERS, DOING GOOD, DOING GREAT PROJECTS.

YOU'RE A 100-YEAR-OLD BANK, AND YET YOU'RE A BANK WITH A PURPOSE.

IN FACT, YOU'RE A BANKER WITH A PURPOSE.

I'VE FOLLOWED YOUR CAREER.

TELL ME WHY AMALGAMATED'S DIFFERENT.

>> WELL, I'M GLAD YOU ASKED.

IT'S AN EXCITING STORY.

YOU'RE RIGHT, AMALGAMATED WAS STARTED BY A GROUP OF CLOTHING THEY COULDN'T BE BANKED SO THEY DECIDED TO START THEIR OWN BANK, AND THAT WAS 100 YEARS AGO.

AND FOR THAT LONG WE'VE CONTINUED TO CARE A LOT ABOUT WORKERS' RIGHTS, BUT WE ALSO CARE ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE PUT IN VULNERABLE POSITIONS.

AND SO WE THINK ABOUT SOCIETY AND WHAT'S BEST, AND AS A BANK, WHERE IT'S APPROPRIATE AS A BANK, WE GET INVOLVED.

>> AND BY GETTING INVOLVED, WHAT TO YOU MEAN BESIDES TRADITIONAL BANKING ACTIVITIES?

>> WELL, WE ALSO THINK ABOUT THOSE THING THAT THE FINANCIAL SERVICES INDUSTRY SHOULD AND CAN DO TO ALLEVIATE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD, AND SO THAT STARTED FOR US WITH CLIMATE.

WE'VE DONE QUITE A LOT OF WORK, A THIRD OF OUR LENDING IS CLIMATE-RELATED OR SUSTAINABILITY RELATED.

WE GO FROM THAT TO MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN SETTING THE STANDARDS BY WHICH FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS REPORT THEIR ACTIVITY, THEIR PATH TO NET ZERO.

WE'VE DONE SOMETHING SIMILAR IN TERMS OF GETTING INVOLVED IN SORT OF PUNCHING ABOVE OUR WEIGHT AS RELATES TO THINGS LIKE WOMEN HAVING ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE, AS RELATES TO ELIMINATING THE USE OF FINANCIAL SYSTEMS FOR GUN CRIMES AND OTHER CRIMES.

THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE THINK ARE APPROPRIATE FOR A BANK TO DO AND WE GET INVOLVED.

>> SO YOU SAY YOU GET INVOLVED IN ALL THESE THINGS, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, GUNS, EVERYTHING ELSE.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF A HIT ON OUR BOTTOM LINE OR THE AMOUNT OF INTEREST RATES WE PAY?

>> WELL, LOOK, YOU KNOW, FOR US THE STORY IS A PRETTY GOOD ONE.

100 YEARS AGO THIS WAS AN EXPERIMENT IN HOW BANKING COULD BE DONE WELL, HOW YOU COULD DO GOOD AND DO WELL.

NOW 100 YEARS LATER, WE THINK THE EXPERIMENT IS PROVEN, AND IT'S PROVEN FOR US IN OUR EARNINGS GROWTH AS A BANK, SO WHAT WE DO FOR SHAREHOLDERS, BUT ALSO AS A B CORP., WE CARE AS MUCH ABOUT WHAT WE DO FOR OTHER STAKE STAKEHOLDERS.

AND SO WE SEE THE SUCCESS OF THE STRATEGY IN THE PROGRESS THAT OUR STAKEHOLDERS MAKE, INCLUDING ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS.

>> BUT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO THE FACT THAT YOU'RE DOING GOOD AND THEY WANT TO BE IN AMALGAMATED FOR THAT REASON?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

OUR CUSTOMERS TELL US THEY LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THEIR MONEY SLEEPS AT NIGHT, AND IT'S -- THEY'RE HAPPY TO KNOW THAT IT'S SLEEPING IN GOOD PLACES.

THEY DON'T -- AGAIN, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT'S AGAINST THEIR VALUES.

THIS IS AIDED BY THE FACT THAT WE ARE SO TRANSPARENT.

AND ACTUALLY, WALTER, I MEAN, IN THAT WAY WE ARE ALSO -- WE ALSO ENJOY A LUXURY THAT MANY INSTITUTIONS DON'T HAVE.

WE DON'T GET AS CONCERNED AS OTHERS MAY ABOUT ANY FORM OF MAL CONTENT AMONG CUSTOMERS BECAUSE WE ARE SO TRANSPARENT.

>> THERE'S A GREAT BOOK BY MATTHEW DESMOND CALLED POVERTY BY AMERICA.

I LEARNED THINGS IN IT THAT STRUCK ME IS THAT BLACK OR HISPANIC FAMILIES ARE FIVE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE UNBANKED.

WHAT DO YOU -- I KNOW THAT'S PART OF THE MISSION OF AMALGAMATED BANK, TO FIGHT RACIAL INJUSTICE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THAT REGARD?

>> I'M SO GLAD YOU ASKED ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT UPON US IN THE BANKING INDUSTRY TO BE FOCUSED ON THE WEALTH GAP, AND THAT WEALTH GAP FOR BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IS WAY TOO HUGE.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF BANKS DOING A LOT ABOUT IT.

WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS A SERIES OF CONVERSATIONS WITH CHANGE MAKERS IN THIS SPACE AND WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THIS SPACE, TO TRY FIND WHERE'S THE WHITE SPACE?

WHAT ISN'T BEING ADDRESSED?

WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE INSTITUTIONAL PROCESSES WE'VE HAD IN PLACE FOR A LONG TIME, WHILE PERHAPS NOT INTENDING TO BE, ARE CERTAINLY DISCRIMINATORY, AND WE ARE HAVING A DISCRIMINATORY EFFECT, I SHOULD SAY.

SO WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS, FRANKLY, THAT WE ARE REPORTING THIS WEEK VERY STRONG EARNINGS AND WE'RE REPORTING GREAT SUCCESS IS THROUGH THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING WITH UNDERSERVED COMMUNITIES, WHETHER THOSE BE PEOPLE SERVING THIS POPULATION OR WHETHER IT'S THE POPULATION ITSELF.

ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT IS SOME OF THE INVESTING WE'VE DONE WITH FUNDS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY SET ASIDE FOR BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES AND FOR ENTREPRENEURS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

ANOTHER THING THAT WE THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS YOU'VE SEEN A NUMBER OF LARGER BANKS AND OTHER ASSET MANAGERS SETTING ASIDE SPECIFIC PROGRAMS TO ENABLE THOSE WHO ARE COMING INTO THE WORK FORCE TO HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL.

WE THINK ACCESS TO CAPITAL, BOTH THAT INITIAL POINT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO BUY YOUR FIRST HOME, AND AT THAT SECOND POINT WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO EXPAND YOUR BUSINESS.

YOU'VE SEEN SUCCESS IN YOUR BUSINESS IN A LIMITED WAY.

YOU HAVE LOTS OF DEMANDS.

YOU WANT TO EXPAND IT.

YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO CAPITAL TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

WE'RE LOOKING AT SOLUTIONS TO THAT PROBLEM.

>> LET ME READ YOU A STATISTIC I FIND INTERESTING, WHICH IS THAT RESEARCH SHOWS THAT AMERICANS IN 2021 WERE CHARGED $11 BILLION OVERDRAFT FEES, AND 9% OF ACCOUNT HOLDERS PAY 84% OF THOSE FEES, AND THOSE ARE CUSTOMERS WHO USUALLY HAVE BALANCES OF LESS THAN $350.

THAT FEELS LIKE A TAX ON THE POOR.

YOU KNOW, HOW CAN BANKS MAKE BEING POOR WHEN YOU GO TO A BANK AND THAT THE POOR DON'T GET EXPLOITED?

>> LOOK, I THINK THERE'S A LOT IN THAT ANSWER.

ONE IS WE HAVE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE IN THE WAY THEY'RE USING THESE ACCOUNTS.

IT'S A TRAVESTY IF THE FEES YOU'RE BEING CHARGED ON AN ACCOUNT ARE MULTIPLES OF THE BALANCE IN YOUR ACCOUNT.

THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE USING THIS ACCOUNT AS A WAY OF GETTING A PAYDAY LOAN ESSENTIALLY.

YOU'RE TAKING THE MONEY OUT KNOWING IN MANY CASES, AND WE DO SEE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO THIS AN EXCESSIVE NUMBER OF TIMES.

SO WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THEY NEED ACCESS TO FUNDS RIGHT AWAY.

THEY DON'T HAVE ANOTHER ACCESS SO THEY KNOWINGLY WILL CREATE A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE GETTING A FEE FOR THE USE OF THAT MONEY, RIGHT?

AND THAT HAS TO STOP.

WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO EDUCATE PEOPLE BECAUSE WHETHER YOU TAKE THE FEE AWAY OR NOT, THEY ARE STILL NOT MANAGING VERY WELL.

AND WE HAVE TO PROVIDE EDUCATION TO ASSIST IN THAT.

WE IT THAT NOT ONLY DIRECTLY, BUT WE DO IT INDIRECTLY BY SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE PROVIDING THAT KIND OF INFORMATION AND EDUCATION AND LITERACY, FINANCIAL LITERACY TO CUSTOMERS.

THAT'S WHERE IT STARTS.

IT ALSO HAS TO CONTINUE THROUGH TO OUR POLICIES AND PRACTICES ON HOW WE CHARGE FEES AND RECOGNIZING THE PROBLEM AND COMMUNICATING WITH CUSTOMERS.

THIS IS ANOTHER REASON WHY COMMUNITY BANKS ARE SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY CUSTOMERS, AND THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE WHERE THEY SEE THERE ARE ISSUES.

>> YOU SAY THAT CUSTOMERS LOVE THE FACT THE MONEY'S SLEEPING IN A GOOD PLACE.

ALSO I ASSUME IT'S NOT SLEEPING IN BAD PLACES.

LET ME TAKE AN EXAMPLE, THEY MAY NOT LIKE MONEY GOING TO GUN MANUFACTURERS OR GUN TRANSACTIONS.

TELL ME WHAT YOU DO IN THAT REGARD.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.

I LIKE ALMOST EVERY AMERICAN, I OWNERS AS FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS AND EVEN IN MY OWN HOME, AND SO WE DON'T TAKE A POSITION AROUND WHETHER OR NOT A GUN OWNER SHOULD BE A GUN OWNER.

WE THINK THAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS IMPORTANT.

WHAT WE DO, THOUGH, IS WE DO WANT TO SEE THE ERADICATION OF USING FINANCIAL SERVICES SYSTEMS TO COMMIT GUN CRIMES.

THAT'S THE DISTINCTION WE MAKE, AND AGAIN, WE THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT SWIM LANE FOR A BANK.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY IN THAT -- IN FACT, IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE AROUND THE WORLD -- IN THAT ILLEGAL ACTIVITY USING CREDIT CARDS FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUYING GUNS TO DO SOMETHING WRONG IS HARD TO IDENTIFY.

IT'S HARD FOR US TO REPORT THE SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY TO AUTHORITIES, AND SO WE'VE TAKEN IT UPON OURSELVES TO TRY TO >> IN THE PAST FEW DAYS, WE'VE SEEN THE EARNINGS REPORTS FROM THE BIG BANKS.

THEY ALL CAME OUT IN THE PAST WEEK.

THEY DID A LITTLE BIT BETTER, I THINK, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAN EXPECTATIONS.

IT LOOKED PRETTY GOOD FOR THE BIG BANKS.

OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO, WE'RE GOING TO SEE COMMUNITY BANKS REPORTING.

IS THAT A TREND THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE, OR IS THIS SOMETHING SPECIAL TO THE BIG BANKS THIS QUARTER?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD -- IT'S HARD FOR ME TO ANSWER THAT DIRECTLY, BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS THAT WE AS A -- WE'RE A BANK THAT'S IN FOUR MAJOR CITIES, SO WE'RE CONSIDERED NATIONAL.

BUT WE DO WORK ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND WE CARE A LOT ABOUT THE SMALLER BANKS, THE COMMUNITY BANKS THAT WE ALSO LIKE TO SUPPORT.

WE THINK THAT THEY SERVE A VERY IMPORTANT PURPOSE ON MAIN STREET IN AMERICA.

THIS IS THE BANK THAT SUPPORTS THE ENTREPRENEURS, THE LOCAL ENTREPRENEURS, AND KNOWS THEM VERY WELL.

AND I THINK WHETHER YOU ARE A WE'RE 125th BANK OUT OF 4,000, WHETHER YOU'RE US, WHETHER YOU'RE SMALLER, OR WHETHER YOU'RE LARGER, WE NEED THIS ECOSYSTEM FINANCING ORGANIZATIONS TO BE ABLE TO SUSTAIN THE ECONOMY IN IMPORTANT WAYS, AND SO WE CERTAINLY HOPE TO SEE VERY GOOD RESULTS COMING OUT OF THE COMMUNITY BANKS THAT WILL REPORT.

YOU'RE RIGHT, IT SORT OF GOES IN ORDER OF SIZE.

YOU'VE SEEN SOME OF THE BIG BANKS REPORT.

YOU'LL SEE US AND OTHERS REPORTING NOW, AND THEN YOU'LL SEE THE SMALLER BANKS REPORTING.

>> THIS SPRING SILICON VALLEY BANK, FIRST REPUBLIC BANK FAILURES, PEOPLE WERE WORRIED THAT THIS WAS GOING TO HURT MID-SIZED BANKS AND COMMUNITY BANKS.

THINGS HAVE THEY STABILIZED?

IT SEEMS THEY HAVE.

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO REALIZE IS THAT THIS REALLY IS NOT ABOUT EQUATING OF SILICON VALLEY BANK, YOU HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE BANK THAT WAS AFFECTED, 200 BILLION.

THAT'S NOT A SMALL BANK.

AND YET I THINK INITIALLY, THE INITIAL REACTIONS WERE THAT FLIGHT QUALITY MEANT FLIGHT TO SIZE.

WHAT PEOPLE HAVE COME TO REALIZE I THINK IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS THAT PASSED IS THAT ACTUALLY, WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT BANKS ARE ACTING RESPONSIBLY.

THAT THEY'RE MAKING PRUDENT DECISIONS TO PROTECT THEIR POLICY -- I'M SORRY, THEIR SHAREHOLDERS AND THEIR CUSTOMERS, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS STARTING TO BE REFLECTED IN THE RESULTS THAT YOU'RE SEEING FROM BANKS.

>> WE HEARD SENATOR WARREN SAY RIGHT -- SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN SAY AFTER THE PROBLEMS WITH SILICON VALLEY BANK AND OTHERS THAT IT HAPPENED BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH CORRECT REGULATIONS ON MID-SIZE, SMALLER, AND COMMUNITY BANKS.

IS SHE RIGHT?

ARE THERE MORE REGULATIONS -- YOU'RE A MID-SIZED BANK SO YOU'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THOSE TWO THINGS.

DO YOU THINK THE REGULATORY REGIME IS CORRECT AT THE MOMENT?

IF NOT, HOW WOULD YOU FIX IT?

>> LOOK, I THINK THE PROCESS OF REGULATING FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS IS ALWAYS A DYNAMIC PROCESS.

THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE CHANGES IN THE ECONOMY AND CHANGES ALL AROUND US THAT WILL AFFECT WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO DO FROM A REGULATORY PERSPECTIVE.

WHETHER THAT BE ESOTERIC, NEW INSTRUMENTS COMING INTO THE MARKETPLACE, WHICH BANKS HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN, WHETHER THAT BE ECONOMIC FORCES BOTH U.S. AND GLOBAL AFFECTING THE PROGRESS OF A BANK TOWARD ITS OWN ASPIRATIONS AROUND RISK AND GROWTH, THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING ALL THE TIME, AND I CAN ONLY TELL YOU THAT WE ARE REGULATED BY FOUR ENTITIES AND ALL FOUR OF THEM ARE QUITE HOW TO ADJUST TO THESE DYNAMIC CHANGES.

>> LET ME ASK YOU A PERSONAL QUESTION.

YOUR FAMILY IS FROM ETHIOPIA, I THINK FROM WHAT I'VE READ, YOU GREW UP ON MILITARY, U.S. MILITARY BASES IN GERMANY.

YOU REALLY DIDN'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE UNITED STATES OR COME UNTIL YOU WERE ABOUT AGE 14, AND YOU SAID THAT'S WHEN YOU EXPERIENCED RACISM FOR THE FIRST TIME.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT AND HOW THAT'S AFFECTED YOUR CAREER.

>> ACTUALLY, THE FIRST TIME I UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE WAS RACISM WAS WHEN I WAS COMING TO THE U.S. FOR SUMMERS, AND I CAME WHEN I WAS 9 YEARS OLD, AND JUST HAD AN EXPERIENCE WHERE SOMEONE REACTED TO ME BECAUSE OF MY RACE.

HOW DOES THAT COLOR MY EXPERIENCE?

LOOK, I THINK -- I THINK WE'RE ALL ACUTELY AWARE OF WHO WE ARE, AND WE BRING OUR IDENTITY INTO EVERYTHING THAT WE DO.

THE WAY IT HAS COLORED ME IS THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT RACE AND OTHER ARTIFICIAL SYMBOLS THAT WE CARRY AND AND ARE THERE FOR US DON'T TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

AND IT DOESN'T TELL MY FULL STORY, AND I KNOW IT DOESN'T TELL YOUR FULL STORY, SO MY JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT IN THE ROLE THAT I PLAY EVERY DAY, I'M LOOKING BEYOND THESE THINGS THAT ARE ARTIFICIAL, AND IT CAN BE RACE.

IT CAN BE AGE.

IT CAN BE GENDER, OR IT COULD JUST SIMPLY BE THE STYLE OF SOMEONE'S COMMUNICATION.

SO THAT'S MY JOB.

MY JOB IS TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M GETTING PAST THOSE AND TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER TO TALK THROUGH ISSUES WITH VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

IT'S ALSO COLORED THE WAY I SHOW UP.

I MAKE IT A POINT TO SHOW UP JUST AS I AM.

I MAKE IT A POINT TO TALK THE WAY I TALK, TO CORRECT MYSELF WHEN I FIND MYSELF BEING A BIT OTHERS.

I ALSO THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHERE THESE ISSUE HAVE IMPACTED ME AND HAVE IMPACTED OTHERS OR WHERE I CAN CALL IT OUT WHERE I SEE IT HAPPENING.

>> PRISCILLA BROWN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, WALTER.

>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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