IT HAS BEEN 30 YEARS SINCE PRESIDENT CLINTON PRESIDED OVER ONE OF THE MOST HISTORIC CHECKS IN HISTORY.

IT ALSO RAISED HOPES FOR PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST BUT WERE SADLY ONCE AGAIN IS RIPPING THE REGIONAL PARK.

AMBASSADOR DENNIS ROSS MADE A KEY ROLE IN NEGOTIATING THE AGREEMENTS AND JOINTS TO REFLECT ON WHY THE PROMISE OF PALESTINIAN PEACE REMAINS UNFULFILLED AND WHAT MUST BE DONE TO REIMAGINE A BETTER FUTURE FOR THE REGION.

>> AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> ESPECIALLY AT THIS VERY DIFFICULT MOMENT.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THESE INSIGHTS WITH US.

I WANTED TO START BY SAYING THAT, YOU HAVE DEVOTED YOUR CAREER TO SHAKING INVOLVEMENT IN THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROGRESS.

YOU'VE SERVED UNDER RONALD REAGAN, GEORGE W. BUSH, BILL CLINTON AND BARACK OBAMA.

AND I JUST WANTED TO ASK, WHAT YOU'RE SORT OF FIRST REACTION WAS TO THE EVENTS OF LAST WEEK.

>> SHEER HORROR.

I'VE WORKED ON THIS ISSUE FOR SO LONG AND I'VE SEEN TERRIBLE THINGS BEFORE.

I WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE SITES OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS.

I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING AND I'VE SEEN NOTHING LIKE THIS.

BECAUSE THIS WAS JUST A DELIBERATE DECISION TO KILL AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU COULD, TO DRAW NO DISTINCTION IN TERMS OF AGE, TO TAKE GRANDMOTHERS BACK TO GAZA.

YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING, THE AREA NEXT TO GAZA IS MADE UP OF COMMUNITIES, SOME OF WHICH ARE PEOPLE BY, THOSE ISRAELIS THAT ARE VERY MUCH ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SEEN ARE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SPECTRUM.

THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT DEEPLY BELIEVE IN MAKING PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS.

EVEN BEING PREPARED TO MAKE CONCESSIONS WITH THE PALESTINIANS.

HAMAS CAME IN THERE AND THERE WAS NO SANCTION.

THEY ASK NO QUESTIONS, THEY JUST WANTED TO KILL ISRAELIS.

AND I HAVE TO SAY, PUBLICLY SPEAKING, THEY JUST WANTED TO KILL JEWS.

>> I JUST WANTED TO ASK, FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T REMEMBER , PERHAPS WERE TOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER, IF YOU COULD JUST REMIND US OF WHAT WAS SO SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THAT AGREEMENT.

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN EXISTENTIAL CONFLICT.

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS YOU HAVE TWO NATIONAL MOVE VINCE, TWO NATIONAL IDENTITIES COMPETING FOR THE SAME SPACE.

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF OSLO WAS AFTER AN ERA OF MUTUAL DENIAL, YOU HAD THE APPEAL OF THE NATIONAL LIBERATION OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE AND YOU HAD THE ISRAELIS WHERE ZIONISM IS THE NATIONAL LIBERATION MOVEMENT OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

THE ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS AFTER AN ERA OF MUTUAL DENIAL, CROSSING THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL THRESHOLD AND RECOGNIZING EACH OTHER.

IT MEANT THEY WERE TAKING AN EXISTENTIAL CONFLICT AND TURNING IT INTO A POLITICAL ONE.

EXISTENTIAL AND RELIGIOUS CONFLICTS YOU CAN'T RESOLVE.

NATIONAL CONFLICTS AND POLITICAL CONFLICTS YOU CAN RESELL.

SO THE HOPE OF OSLO WAS THAT YOU WERE TRANSFORMING A CONFLICT THAT COULD NEVER BE RESOLVED INTO ONE THAT NOW WAS ONE WE COULD SELL.

>> AND PART OF THE REASON THIS IS IMPORTANT, AS YOU JUST SAID, THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT NATIONAL MOVEMENTS, RECOGNIZING EACH OTHER'S EXISTENCE AND COMMITTING TO A POLITICAL PROCESS TO SORT IT OUT.

HAMAS, THEY HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED THE EXISTENCE OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT WHY THAT IS?

>> THEY HAVE AN IDEOLOGY.

HAMAS IS AN ACRONYM FOR THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE MOVEMENT.

AND THERE IDEOLOGY WAS ALL THAT PALESTINE WAS PART OF AN ISLAMIC TRUST.

AND AS PART OF AN ISLAMIC TRUST, NOT ONE INCH COULD BE SURRENDERED.

IN THAT WAS AN IDEOLOGY CREDO THEY HAVE LIVED WITH.

PEOPLE TEND TO FORGET, EVERY TIME WE WERE MAKING PROGRESS IN THE 1990S, EVERY TIME, WE WERE MAKING PROGRESS, WE WOULD GET SUICIDE BOMBINGS FROM HAMAS.

WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE SAY TODAY HAMAS WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THIS IF THERE WAS A PEACE PROCESS.

ON THE CONTRARY.

WHEN THERE WAS THEY DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD TO KILL IT.

EVEN NOW, CLEARLY ONE OF THE MOTIVATIONS WAS THE PROSPECT THAT SAUDI ARABIA, THE CUSTODIAN OF THE TWO HOLY MOSQUES, MOST IMPORTANT HOLY MUSLIM LEADER, WAS PREPARED, IT APPEARED, AND THE PROCESS OF PREPARING TO MAKE PEACE WITH THE JEWISH PEOPLE HURT SO YOU WOULD BE REMOVING OR DIMINISHING THE RELIGIOUS ELEMENT OF THIS CONFLICT.

FOR HAMAS, THAT WAS A FUNDAMENTAL THREAT.

>> SO LET'S WHEEL AROUND TO THE OTHER REASON WE CALLED YOU.

YOU JUST PUBLISHED A NEW ESSAY IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS.

I WOULD SAY IT IS A FAIRLY TOUGH-MINDED STATEMENT FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF, ESPECIALLY FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF HAS BEEN SO INVESTED AND INVOLVED IN THE PEACE PROCESS.

IN THIS YOU SAY, THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE LASTING PEACE FOR ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS IS A COMPLETE DISMANTLING OF HAMAS.

DECAPITATING HAMAS'S LEADERSHIP, DESTROYING THE MILITARY INFRASTRUCTURE, KILLING A LARGE NUMBER OF ITS FIGHTERS AND OCCUPYING GAZA AGAIN ARE VERY REAL OBJECTIVES.

WHY ARE YOU SO CONVINCED OF THAT AT THIS POINT?

>> I WAS SORT OF LAYING OUT WHAT WERE ISRAELI OBJECTIVES NOW.

I WASN'T SAYING THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINK THEY SHOULD DO, THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM.

THIS IS A PARADIGM OF INNOCENCE LIVING IN COEXISTING WITH HAMAS IN 2009.

THEY CAME TO REALIZE THAT WAS NOT A MANAGEABLE CAUSE.

HAVING SAID THAT, WHAT I WAS SAYING, IT IS CLEAR THAT HAMAS CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE A THREAT TOWARD ISRAEL.

NUMBER ONE.

THERE IS ALSO CLEAR TO BE NO POSSIBILITY OF CREATING RECONSTRUCTION OF GAZA WHERE HAMAS IS IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN COME AT A TIME OF THEIR CHOOSING BLOW EVERYTHING UP AGAIN.

SO I TAKE THE VIEW THAT THEY HAVE COMPLETELY LEGITIMIZED THEMSELVES AND WHAT THEY HAVE DONE.

THEY ARE NOT A PARTNER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

AND I'D LIKE TO SEE AN OUTCOME, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE MILITARIZATION OF GAZA IN RETURN OF MASSIVE RECONSTRUCTION OF GAZA.

I DON'T SEE HAMAS BEING IN A POSITION WHERE THEY WILL EVER GO ALONG WITH ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

AT A MINIMUM, HAMAS HAS TO BE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE IT'S FUNDAMENTAL POWER HAS BEEN DRAMATICALLY ERODED.

THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN ERADICATE SOMETHING LIKE HAMAS IS SOMETHING THAT IS BEYOND ANYBODY'S CAPABILITY.

BUT YOU CAN DRAMATICALLY WEAKEN IT TO THE POINT WHERE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO DISRUPT EVERYTHING ELSE.

AT A MINIMUM THAT HAS TO BE THE OUTCOME.

>> THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE THE COST TO ISRAEL AND THE PEOPLE OF GAZA IS GOING TO BE VERY HIGH.

YOU SAID HAMAS IS COMPLETELY DELEGITIMIZED.

WE HAVE NO IDEA OF KNOWING HOW MUCH LEGITIMACY HAMAS HAS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GAZA.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE POPULATION OF GAZA IS VERY YOUNG.

THE AVERAGE GAZAN IS 18 YEARS OLD.

50% OF THE POPULATION ARE CHILDREN.

THEY HAVE NO VOICE IN THIS.

AND THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF EMBEDDING THEMSELVES IN THE CIVILIAN POPULATION.

SO GIVEN THAT, HOW COULD THIS BE ACCOMPLISHED WITHOUT A MASSIVE LOSS OF LIFE AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE PERHAPS, FAIR TO SAY, THEMSELVES, HOSTAGES IN THIS LAND.

>> YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

IT WON'T SURPRISE YOU, I HAVE FRIENDS IN GAZA RIGHT NOW.

I'VE SPOKEN TO SOME OF THEM IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

MY HEART IS LITERALLY BREAKING OVER WHAT I SEE HAPPENING.

AND YET, I ALSO KNOW THAT THEY ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY HAMAS HEARD ONE OF THE PERSONS I WAS ABLE TO SPEAK TO WAS DESCRIBING HOW SHE HAS ALREADY LOST MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY.

SHE SAID WE ARE THE ONES VULNERABLE AND YES ISRAELIS HAVE BASICALLY DIRECTED US TO SEVEN AREAS IN GAZA BUT I HAVE 90-YEAR-OLD PARENTS THAT ARE NOT MOVABLE.

WE ARE EXPOSED, ALL HAMAS LEADERS ARE DEEP UNDERGROUND.

THIS IS A TERRIBLE AND DIRE SITUATION.

AND YET, WE FACE A REALITY WHERE WHATEVER WE SAY, THE ISRAELIS ARE NO LONGER GOING TO LIVE WITH THIS THREAT.

THIS IS LEFT TO RIGHT.

COMPLETELY, COMPLETE CONSENSUS.

SO, THIS IS A TERRIBLE REALITY BUT IN A SENSE WHAT IS REAL IS NOW FACING IS ISIS.

WHEN WE FOUGHT ISIS, THERE WERE A LOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO WERE KILLED.

YOU ARE DEALING WITH A THREAT THAT ACTUALLY WANTS TO INVITE THE KILLING OF INNOCENCE.

AND IT FORCES YOU INTO THESE TERRIBLE AND EXCRUCIATING DILEMMAS, WHERE, IF YOU DON'T TAKE THESE STEPS COMING UP TO CONTINUE TO LIVE WITH THIS GROUP THAT WILL CONTINUE TO CARRY OUT OUTRAGEOUS.

AND AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO TRY TO FIND A WAY TO DEAL WITH IT.

WHAT I WAS LAYING IN TERMS OF THE OBJECTIVES, I SENT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SHOULD EMPHASIZE THE UNCONDITIONAL RELEASE OF ALL HOSTAGES AND EMPHASIZE THE DEMILITARIZATION AND OFFER RECONSTRUCTION.

I'M HOPING THAT UNDER SOME CIRCUMSTANCES YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO BRING THIS TO AN END SO THAT THE SUPREME PRICE THAT WE COULD BE SEEING PAID, IN FACT, DOES NOT MATERIALIZE.

YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT, THE PRICE THAT THEY WILL PAY IS TERRIBLE.

THE PRICE THE IDF WILL PAY IS ALSO AWFUL.

IT IS AN AWFUL SITUATION BUT WE ALSO KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

HAMAS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

>> ARE YOU CONVINCED THAT THE WORLD WILL SEE IT THAT WAY?

THE FACT IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO LOOK AT THIS, YOU CAN JUST SEE THE DESTRUCTION, KIND OF, WHOLE NEIGHBORHOODS WIPED OUT.

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THESE SAFE CORRIDORS THAT ISRAELIS ARE DIRECTING PEOPLE TO BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SAYING, HOW CAN I GET THERE?

HOW DO THEY MAINTAIN THEIR AUTHORITY AND USE THIS LEVEL OF OVERWHELMING FORCE?

V. I THINK IT IS HARD.

I SAID IT'S AN EXCRUCIATING DILEMMA.

HERE ARE THE THINGS I'D LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN.

I'D LIKE TO SEE THE ISRAELIS EMPHASIZE THAT AGAIN THERE ARE SAFE AREAS AND I'D LIKE TO SEE ISRAELIS FACILITATE HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE GOING INTO THOSE AREAS.

I WANT ISRAEL TO BE ABLE TO PUT THEMSELVES IN A POSITION WHERE THEY SAY THEY ARE FIGHTING HAMAS, NOT WISHING PALESTINIANS.

THIS IS THE WAY THEY HAVE TO PRESENTED AND I THINK IT'S THE WAY SHOULD WE BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE TO FRAME THIS ISSUE FOR WHAT IT IS.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE ON THIS GROUP THAT HAS VISITED THESE UNSPEAKABLE ATROCITIES ON ONE HAND AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO IT.

ON THE OTHER HAND YOU HAVE TO TRY TO DO IT ANYWAY THAT TRIES TO DO AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO SAFEGUARD THE LIVES OF PALESTINIANS WHO ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAMAS DOES.

HE MAKES YOU THINK THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS ACTUALLY MAKING, OR ISRAELI LEADERSHIP IS ACTUALLY MAKING THAT DISTINCTION AT THE MOMENT?

>> I THINK THAT THEY ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE IT'S REALLY HARD TO MAKE THESE KINDS OF DISTINCTIONS BUT I THINK SOME EFFORT IS BEING MADE.

THE MORE WE TALK ABOUT IT THERE WILL PROBABLY BE MORE GREATER EFFORT.

IT IS IN ISRAEL'S INTEREST TO SHOW FIGHTING HAMAS IS ONE THING AND DEALING WITH PALESTINIAN PEOPLE IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION?

DO YOU THINK ABIDED MINISTRATION IS DOING ENOUGH TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE THAT YOU HAVE JUST DELIVERED?

>> I THINK THE PRESIDENT, WHEN HE SPELLED EVERYTHING OUT, HE SAID DO IT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

IT IS TRUE THAT HUMANITARIAN LAW, AS IT RELATES TO USE OF FORCE, FORCE THAT IS DESIGNED TO ACHIEVE A VERY CLEAR MILITARY OBJECTIVE, WILL, IN THE END, UNFORTUNATELY ALSO AND UP PRODUCING WHAT WILL BE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

BECAUSE THAT IS THE NATURE OF WAR.

BUT I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO STRIKE THE BALANCE.

AND IT IS A HARD BALANCE TO STRIKE.

ANYONE WHO THINKS THERE IS A SIMPLE ANSWER HERE IS IGNORING IT.

FOR THOSE WHO SAY ISRAEL HAS TO STOP, THEN YOU JUST GUARANTEE THAT YOU WILL SEE MORE OF WHAT HAMAS DOES.

HAMAS DELIBERATELY TARGET CIVILIANS.

ISRAELIS DO NOT.

THERE IS A IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.

WE NEED TO HAVE AN OUTLET WHERE HAMAS IS UNABLE TO DO THAT.

>> LET'S WHEEL IT AROUND AND SAY, FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION, THAT, THROUGH WHATEVER MEANS THAT FIGHTING IS CONTAINED, THAT HAMAS IS DISMANTLED, EVEN AT A GRIEVOUS COST.

AND I KNOW WE ARE USING THIS VERY ANTISEPTIC LANGUAGE, BUT I AM MINDFUL AS I SEE THAT YOU ARE YOU TELL ME THAT YOU ARE.

FOR EVERY PERSON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THERE IS A MOTHER WHO IS SEEING THEIR CHILD LYING DEAD.

SOME INNOCENT PERSON WHO HAD NO OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVENE AND THIS WILL PAY A VERY DEAR PRICE.

SO LET'S ESTABLISH THAT WE KNOW THIS.

LET'S SAY FOR THE SAKE OF OUR DEVASTATION THAT HAMAS IS DISMANTLED, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN AFTER THAT?

HOW DOES THE REGION GO FORWARD AFTER THAT?

>> I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I WROTE IN THAT PIECE IS WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THE DAY AFTER RIGHT NOW.

WE CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THE DAY AFTER TO BE THINKING ABOUT IT.

THERE NEEDS TO BE AN ALTERNATIVE ADMINISTRATION IN GAZA, MAYBE UNDER SOME KIND OF INTERNATIONAL TRUSTEESHIP.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A PLAN FOR RECONSTRUCTION AS PART OF THAT AND ELECTIONS HELD 6 TO 9 MONTHS LATER.

THERE NEEDS TO BE, IN OTHER WORDS, THERE NEEDS TO BE A STRATEGIC PLAN FOR WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN GAZA AFTERWARDS AND THAT PLAN IS TO ENSURE IT CAN BE REARMED AND IT ALSO NEEDS TO CREATE THE EQUIVALENT OF A MARSHALL PLAN FOR GAZA.

ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT GAZA FROM THAT STANDPOINT IS THAT IT IS SMALL.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN AREA THAT IS NOT MUCH BIGGER THAN THE GREATER NEW YORK AREA.

SO THE POTENTIAL, AND YOU WILL HAVE SO MUCH DESTRUCTION THERE, THAT REBUILDING THE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND IN A SENSE ALMOST STARTING FROM A LOW-END, YOU CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE PRETTY QUICKLY.

AND GIVE PALESTINIANS A CHANCE TO BREATHE.

THAT WOULD BE ONE THING.

THE SECOND THING, I DON'T WRITE OFF THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE WILL STILL SEE, MAYBE SEVERAL MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD, SAUDI/ISRAELI BREAKTHROUGH.

IN WHICH CASE PART OF THAT WILL ALSO INVOLVE WHAT WAS DONE FOR PALESTINIANS IN THE WEST BANK AS WELL.

NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF CHANGING HOW THEY LIVE BUT ALSO TANGIBLE STEPS THAT WOULD ENSURE THAT THE TWO STATE REMAINS AN OPTION FOR THE FUTURE.

THEN YOU CAN CHANGE THE TRAJECTORY AND MOVE IT AWAY THAT BECOMES DRAMATICALLY MORE HOPEFUL.

WHAT WE CAN'T DO IS BECOME SO LOST IN WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW THAT WE LOSE SIGHT OF ANYTHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN OVER TIME.

LOOK, I COMPLETELY, YOU USE THE WORD GRIEVOUS, THERE IS A POVERTY OF LANGUAGE TO CAPTURE WHAT IT MEANS TO SEE THESE LOSSES.

I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SO HURTFUL.

BECAUSE THESE ARE NOT JUST NUMBERS, THEY ARE ALL INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS WITH FAMILIES.

>> YOU THINK THERE IS THE POLITICAL WILL IN THE UNITED STATES TO SUPPORT, LEADERSHIP EVEN, IN THE KIND OF PROJECT THAT YOU HAVE SPOKEN UP?

>> WELL, I HOPE SO.

LOOK, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE OUR OWN POLITICAL REALITIES HERE.

I DO THINK THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WOULD WANT TO COME OUT OF THIS WITH A POTENTIAL TO CHANGE THE REALITIES IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

WE'VE GOTTEN A REMINDER THAT EVERY TIME WE THOUGHT WE COULD IGNORE THE MIDDLE EAST IT RE- IMPOSES ITSELF ON US.

TO THINK THAT THE MIDDLE EAST IS DISCONNECTED FROM LARGER GLOBAL PETITION, WE ARE CONSTANTLY REMINDED THAT IT IS NOT.

YOU HAVE AN AREA, THAT FOR ANOTHER 30 YEARS FOSSIL FUELS WILL STILL BE IMPORTED.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT STANDPOINT AND A GEOGRAPHIC STANDPOINT.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT GENERATES IDEOLOGIES THAT ARE A THREAT TO EVERYONE.

SO THE MORE YOU REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, THE MORE YOU AND HIM BEING SUCKED BACK IN BUT IN WORSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

NOTHING BUT BE WORSE THAN TO HAVE THIS EVENT AND DO NOTHING.

>> AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.