♪ COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

FORMER ARIZONA U.S.

SENATOR AND AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY, JEFF FLAKE, JOINS US IN STUDIO.

>>> AND THE MARTHA GRAHAM DANCE COMPANY RETURNS TO SCOTTSDALE WITH TWO NEW WORKS AND A TIMELESS CLASSIC.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

THE U.S. DEFENSE DEPARTMENT AND THE U.S. ARMY HAVE REMOVED REFERENCES TO THE NAVAJO CODETALKERS AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO AMERICA'S VICTORY IN WORLD WAR II CONSIDERED HEROES FOR COMING UP WITH A CODE USING THE NAVAJO LANGUAGE THAT PROVED IMPOSSIBLE FOR AMERICA'S ENEMIES TO DECIPHER, BUT INFORMATION ABOUT THE SPECIAL GROUP OF MARINES HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM MILITARY WEBSITES AS PART OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORTS AGAINST DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION, A DAUGHTER OF ONE OF THE CODETALKERS SAYS THE MOVE IS, QUOTE, UNBELIEVABLE AND TO, QUOTE, DISHONOR THEIR SERVICE TO THE UNITED STATES IS UNCONSCIONABLE.

>>> CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS ISSUED CRITICISM AIMED AT PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT OF LOWER COURT JUDGE WHO TEMPORARILY BLOCKED DEPORTATIONS OF ALLEGED VENEZUELAN GANG MEMBERS.

TRUMP DESCRIBED THE JUDGE AS A, QUOTE, RADICAL LEFT LUNATIC AND CALLED FOR HIS REMOVAL.

ROBERTS STATED IMPEACHMENT IS NOT A PROPER RESPONSE.

TRUMP IS SUSPECTED OF ORDERING THE IMMIGRANTS FLOWN OUT OF THE COUNTRY AFTER THE DISTRICT COURT JUDGE IN THE CASE ORDERED FLIGHTS BE STOPPED.

>>> ANOTHER FEDERAL JUDGE INDEFINITELY BLOCKED THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S DISMANTLING OF U.S. AGENCY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT OR USAID AND CUT OFF ELON MUSK'S EFFICIENCY TEAM FROM SHARING SENSITIVE PERSONAL DATA.

ACTIONS BY MUSK'S GROUPS TO SHUT DOWN THE AGENCY LIKELY VIOLATED THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

>>> AND RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN AGREED TEMPORARILY STOP MILITARY STRIKES ON UKRAINE'S ENERGY TARGETS, PUTIN AGREED TO PAUSE FOR 30 DAYS AFTER TELEPHONE MEETING WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT PUTIN DID NOT AGREE TO BROADER 30 DAY CEASE-FIRE THAT THE U.S. AND UKRAINE PROPOSED.

>>> FORMER U.S.

SENATOR AND U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY JEFF FLAKE IS AN ARIZONA NATIVE AND LIFE LONG CONSERVATIVE WHO WAS AN EARLY CRITIC OF DONALD TRUMP SPECIFICALLY TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR IN OFFICE.

FLAKE WOUND UP SUPPORTING DEMOCRATIC OPPONENTS IN THE 2020 AND 2024 ELECTIONS AND SERVED AS U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

JEFF FLAKE JOINS US NOW ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

SHOULD I CALL YOU SENATOR?

AMBASSADOR?

I'LL CALL YOU AMBASSADOR.

>> SOUNDS GOOD.

TED: GOOD ENOUGH.

YOU WERE EARLY CRITIC OF DONALD TRUMP, DID YOU FORESEE THEN WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW?

>> NO.

NO, I DIDN'T.

I WAS SURPRISED WHEN HE WON A FIRST TERM.

I WAS MORE SURPRISED WHEN HE WON A SECOND.

SO NO, I COULDN'T HAVE FORESEEN IT, AND YEAH, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING, BIT OF A SURPRISE.

TED: WHAT SURPRISES YOU MOST?

>> WELL, THE LIMITED PUSHBACK.

I THINK WE KNOW WHERE HE IS AND WHERE HE WANTS TO GO, BUT I HAVE BEEN SURPRISED HOW FEW, IN MY PARTY, IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HAVE STOOD UP AND SAID THIS WAS THE PARTY OF LIMITED GOVERNMENT, ECONOMIC FREEDOM, INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY, STRONG AMERICAN LEADERSHIP ABROAD AND PUSHED A LOT OF THE THINGS ASIDE.

THAT'S WHAT SURPRISED ME.

TED: AMERICA'S HISTORY MOVES IN LURCHES.

IS THIS A LURCH RIGHT NOW?

IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFICULT TO COME BACK FROM?

>> I THOUGHT THE FEVER WILL BREAK AT SOME POINT, AND IT WILL.

I'VE SAID OFTEN THAT GRIEVANCE IS NOT A GOVERNING PHILOSOPHY.

YOU HAVE TO GET BACK TO WHAT YOU TRULY BELIEVE IN.

BETTER PRINCIPLES, LIMITED GOVERNMENT, ECONOMIC FREEDOM, FREE TRADE.

I THINK THOSE THINGS THAT ANIMATED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR DECADES WILL COME BACK.

TED: WHY HAVE THEY NOT COME BACK?

>> WELL, TIMES WE'RE IN.

POPULIST MESSAGES ARE TO THE FORE NOW, AND I THINK THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOR A WHILE, BUT IT WILL RUN ITS COURSE.

TED: WE TALKED IN THE HEADLINES -- >> LET ME JUST SAY, TOO.

CERTAINLY, SOME OF THE PROPOSALS ON DEREGULATION AND LOW TAXATION AND THINGS, THOSE ARE BEDROCKS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BUT A TAX ON FREE TRADE AND THE AMERICA FIRST, WHICH IS TRANSLATED INTO PROTECTIONISM, THAT'S NOT VERY CONSERVATIVE IN MY VIEW.

TED: WE TALKED EARLIER, DURING THE HEADLINES, WE TALKED ABOUT THE CHIEF JUSTICE BASICALLY SAYING KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE TALK OF IMPEACHING A DISTRICT COURT JUDGE THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH, AND YET THE ADMINISTRATION WENT AHEAD WITH THE FLIGHTS THOUGH THE JUDGE SAID DON'T DO IT.

ARE WE SEEING EROSION OF LAW?

>> WELL, MY CONCERN, BACK IN 2016 AND 2017, WHEN I WROTE THE BOOK AND WHAT NOT, WHEN WE KIND OF NORMALIZE THESE KIND OF THINGS, THEN IT BECOMES ACCEPTED, AND I DO FEAR THAT WE'VE MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT TO COME BACK FROM.

I THINK WE WILL.

I'M OPTIMISTIC THAT WE CAN COME BACK.

IT WAS GOOD TO SEE THE CHIEF JUSTICE REMIND THE PRESIDENT THAT THE PROPER RESPONSE TO A DISAGREEMENT IS TO APPEAL, NOT TO IMPEACH.

THERE'S A ROLE FOR IMPEACHMENT BUT NOT FOR DISAGREEMENT ON POLICY.

SO I DO STILL THINK THAT JUDICIARY IS STANDING STRONG, THAT'S A GOOD GUARDRAIL THAT WE STILL HAVE, AND I DO THINK THAT OTHER POLITICIANS WILL STAND UP AS WELL AND SAY HERE'S WHAT WE BELIEVE IN.

TED: IS IT A GUARDRAIL THAT WILL SURVIVE?

ARE WE HEADED FOR A CONSTITUTIONAL COLLISION HERE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'LL TEST SOME OF THAT.

WE DID BACK IN 2020.

FACE IT.

WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT LOSE AN ELECTION AND CLAIM HE WON IT, AND SUPPORTERS GO TO THE CAPITOL AND TRY TO STOP THE PROCEEDINGS, THAT'S TESTING THE BOUNDARIES.

WE SURVIVED IT.

THE GUARDRAILS WERE THERE, AND I THINK THEY'LL REMAIN SO.

TED: AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY, YOU'VE BEEN AROUND THE WORLD.

YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT US OR HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT US.

WHAT ARE THEY THINKING NOW?

>> IT'S DIFFICULT.

TAKE TURKEY.

TURKEY IS RIGHT WHERE EAST MEETS WEST.

I SPENT A LOT OF TIME THERE TRYING TO KEEP THEM ANCHORED IN THE WEST IN NATO WHERE THEY BELONG.

BUT RUSSIA IS THERE.

WE GOT THEM TO IMPOSE SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA TO GIVE ARMS TO UKRAINE, TO INVOKE THE MONTROH CONVENTION WHICH KEPT SHIPS OUT OF THE BLACK SEA.

ALL OF THOSE EFFORTS TO KEEP THEM IN THE WEST AND NOW IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO SAY WHERE'S OUR SECURITY?

IS THE U.S.

GOING TO ABANDON SECURITY ALLIANCES LIKE NATO?

SO IT'S A BIT TROUBLING.

I HOPE WE CAN RIGHT THAT SHIP.

TED: DO YOU THINK WE'RE HEADED TO ABANDONING NATO OR GOING AGAINST THE EU?

>> I DON'T THINK WE'LL ABANDON NATO, BUT IT'S TESTED NOW, AND I'M GLAD THAT NATO IS STRENGTHENED WITH SWEDEN AND FINLAND IN NATO, A LOT OF MY TIME IN TURKEY WAS SPENT TRYING TO GET SWEDEN INTO NATO OVER TURKEY'S OBJECTION.

I'M GLAD IT STRENGTHENED THAT WAY.

I THINK EUROPE NEEDS TO TAKE MORE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIS OWN DEFENSE AND SPEND MORE ON ITS OWN DEFENSE, AND THEY'RE DOING THAT, BUT I WORRY ON THE KNOCKON EFFECTS THAT WE DON'T THINK MUCH OF IF THOSE WHO RELY ON THE SECURITY UMBRELLA TO FUND AND TO MAN GO THEIR OWN WAY WHEN IT COMES TO NUCLEAR ARMAMENTS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE LACK OF PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS MAY NOT HOLD, AND SO I WORRY ABOUT SOME OF THOSE EFFECTS AS WELL.

TED: I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION ARGUES THAT'S ALL FINE AND DANDY.

THEY SHOULD BE TAKING CARE OF THEMSELVES.

WE AND THE REST OF THE WORLD NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON CHINA.

THAT'S WHERE THE REAL THREAT IS.

>> THAT'S EVEN MORE REASON TO KNOW WHO YOUR ALLIES ARE AND TO STICK WITH THEM.

THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON.

IF WE NEED TO COMBAT CHINA, AND WE DO DESPERATELY, WE NEED TO WORK WITH OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES AND OTHERS IN THE WEST AND SOME OF THE NEW ALLIANCES THAT WE BUILT WITH JAPAN AND AUSTRALIA AND INDIA, THOSE ARE IMPORTANT.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE KEEP THOSE ALLIANCES, AND THAT'S WHY TO SEE SOME OF THESE TARIFF PLAYS HERE GOING AFTER YOUR TRUE ALLIES, THAT'S REALLY TROUBLESOME TO ME.

TED: IS THAT A NEGOTIATING -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH CANADA, MUST BE SOMETHING PERSONAL THERE.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

THE IDEA OF GOING AFTER ALLIES MORE THAN YOU ARE RUSSIA?

>> YEAH, CANADA.

THEY'VE BEEN AFTER US, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF US FOR CENTURIES, APPARENTLY.

NO, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND I THINK THAT WILL BUTT RIGHT UP AGAINST THE NEED TO KEEP INFLATION IN CHECK BECAUSE TARIFFS ARE HIGHLY INFLATIONARY AND THAT'S WHY, I THINK, THE PRESIDENT HAS COME RIGHT TO THE BRINK AND BACKS DOWN, AND I THINK HE'LL CONTINUE TO BACK DOWN ON THAT.

ADDITIONAL TARIFFS ON CHINA MAYBE A CALL FOR THAT.

THERE IS A PLACE AND A ROLE FOR TARIFFS, BUT NOT TO BRING IN MONEY TO THE TREASURY.

THAT'S JUST -- THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

WE ARE BETTER OFF AS A COUNTRY, BETTER OFF AS A WORLD FROM SEMBLANCE OF FREE TRADE THAT WE'VE HAD, AND WE WILL BE A POOR COUNTRY IF WE ENACT TRADE BARRIERS.

>> JUDGE BLOCKED DISMANTLING OF USAID TEMPORARILY HERE.

THE IMPACT OF USAID GOING AWAY OR BEING GREATLY REDUCED AROUND THE WORLD, AND HOW THE WORLD, AGAIN, SEES US?

>> LET ME JUST SAY, MY ENTIRE TIME IN CONGRESS I WAS FIGHTING WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE AND EARMARKS, AND HAD A LOT OF SPENDING THAT WAS OUT OF HAND, AND SOME OF THAT SPENDING OUT OF HAND SPENDING IS FOREIGN AID, BUT A LOT OF IT IS REALLY GOOD BANG FOR THE BUCK.

JUST TAKE A LOT OF WHAT USAID HAS DONE IN AFRICA.

THE PROGRAM PETFAR THAT PRESIDENT BUSH PUT IN PLACE, THAT WAS A HIGHLY EFFECTIVE PROGRAM, AND DOESN'T JUST ALLEVIATE HUMAN SUFFERING, IT BUYS YOU A GOT OF GOODWILL.

WE HAVE SECURITY AGREEMENTS, INTELLIGENCE SHARING AGREEMENTS WITH A LOT OF AFRICAN COUNTRIES BECAUSE OF THAT SOFT POWER, SO WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT IF THERE'S EVER A TIME WE NEED SOFT POWER, IT'S NOW, WHEN WE'RE COMBATING CHINA, WHO IS IN JUST ABOUT EVERY SPHERE LOOKING TO GAIN INFLUENCE.

TED: I WOULD SAY, AGAIN, THEY TURN AWAY FROM YOU, THEY'RE GOING TO TURN TO CHINA.

>> YEAH, AFRICA SPENT A COUPLE OF YEARS ON THAT CONTINENT AS WELL, AND TO SEE CHINA MAKING A PLAY AND HAVE BEEN FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES NOW, BUT WITH MORE SUCCESS, IF WE ARE REMOVED FROM THE PICTURE.

WE CAN WORK WITH OUR ALLIES, ONE OF OUR ALLIES IS TURKEY.

TURKEY IS DOING A LOT ACROSS AFRICA AND OFFER A REAL ALTERNATIVE TO CHIEF JUSTICE INVESTMENT.

WE OUGHT TO BE WORKING WITH ALLIES LIKE THAT.

TED: OBVIOUSLY, PRESIDENT TRUMP SPOKE WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN TODAY AND GOT THE LIMITED CEASE-FIRE GOING AGAINST ENERGY FACILITIES AND THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

THE PIVOT, THE CHANGE, THE REVERSAL IN UKRAINE, HOW DID YOU SEE THAT, AND HOW IS THE WORLD SEEING THAT, AND WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

>> WELL, EVERYONE WANTS PEACE IN UKRAINE.

I CERTAINLY DO.

WE'RE CLOSE TO THAT CONFLICT IN TURKEY, AND IT'S TAKEN A HUGE TOLL, BUT I CAN TELL YOU, PUTIN WILL NOT STOP.

IF HE FEELS HE GOT HIS WAY IN UKRAINE, HE WON'T STOP AT UKRAINE, AND I'M GLAD HE'S AGREED TO A LIMITED CEASE-FIRE TODAY.

WE'LL SEE IF HE HOLDS TO.

THAT I THINK THE EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN THAT HE DOESN'T.

HE DOESN'T UPHOLD THE AGREEMENTS THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE.

I'M SKEPTICAL HE WILL.

I HAVE BEEN TROUBLED ABOUT THE RHETORIC ABOUT UKRAINE, AND THIS NOTION THAT SOMEHOW UKRAINE IS THE AGGRESSOR HERE OR THEY COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS.

THEY WERE INVADED TWICE IN 2014, AND AGAIN IN 2022 AND 2023.

IT'S BEYOND EXPLANATION.

TED: AND SKI THIS QUESTION BECAUSE IT JUST -- IT JUST IS THERE.

WE ALL KNOW.

YOU CAN'T TRUST RUSSIA TO A CERTAIN DISAGREE, BUT IS THE REST OF THE WORLD SAYING WE CAN'T TRUST AMERICA?

>> WELL, I AM CONCERNED WITH TRADE AGREEMENTS THAT WE PUT IN PLACE, COUNTRIES WILL SAY CAN WE REALLY RELY ON THAT?

DO WE LOOK FOR A MORE SECURE PARTNER, WITH SECURITY AGREEMENTS AND ARRANGEMENTS THAT WE'VE HAD THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR DECADES AND DECADES, CAN WE REALLY TRUST THE U.S. TO BE THERE?

I DO THINK THAT WE'LL GET BACK TO IT, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT SPELL HERE IF WE CONTINUE TO MOVE AWAY FROM OUR TRADITIONAL ROLE.

TED: IN ORDER TO GET BACK, WE HAVE TO KNOW HOW WE GOT HERE.

HOW DID WE GET HERE?

>> IN THE PLACE WE'RE IN RIGHT NOW?

TED: YES.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE PLACE THAT WE'RE IN STILL, WE'RE THE MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

A COUNTRY THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD RELIES ON FOR LEADERSHIP, AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN GET BACK TO THAT, BUT RIGHT NOW POPULISM IS POPULISM.

IT'S ATTRACTIVE, IT'S CALLED POPULISM FOR A REASON, IT'S POPULAR.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GOVERNING PHILOSOPHY THAT CAN ENDURE AND WHAT WE'VE TRADITIONALLY HAD IN THIS COUNTRY, THE BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS THAT WE'VE HAD IS FOR STRONG AMERICAN LEADERSHIP ABROAD, AND I THINK WE'LL GET BACK TO IT.

TED: I'D BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T ASK ABOUT TURKEY.

HOW DO YOU LIKE IT THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT.

WONDERFUL PEOPLE THERE.

THEY'RE A STRONG ALLY, THEY'VE BEEN A MEMBER OF NATO FOR 73 YEARS.

STRONGEST MEMBER OF NATO OUTSIDE OF THE U.S. THAT'S NOT REALIZED ENOUGH, AND THE PEOPLE ARE GENEROUS AND KIND, AND IT'S A WONDERFUL PLACE TO BE, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT SMACK IN THE MIDDLE.

NAPOLEON ONCE SAID, IF THE WORLD WERE A COUNTRY, ISTANBUL WOULD BE THE CAPITAL WHICH TALKS ABOUT HOW CENTRAL IT IS.

IN THE BEST OF TIMES.

VERY IMPORTANT ALLY OF THE U.S. >> DO YOU SENSE THEY'RE VEERING ONE DIRECTION OR ANOTHER OR ARE THEY THAT KIND OF -- >> THEY'RE VERY MUCH ANCHORED IN THE WEST.

THE NATO ALLIANCE AND TRADE, INCREASE IN TRADE.

STILL, THEY RELY ON RUSSIA PARTICULARLY FOR ENERGY, AND THE ECONOMY, AND THEY'VE BEEN INVADED BY RUSSIA A FEW TIMES THEMSELVES.

SO THEY'RE ALWAYS CAREFUL NOT TO NEEDLESSLY ANGER THEIR BIG NEIGHBOR.

BUT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP THAT WE HAVE AND IT WILL CONTINUE.

TED: MUST HAVE BEEN FASCINATING TO BE THERE.

LAST QUESTION BEFORE YOU GO, ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT EVER GETTING BACK INTO POLITICS, ELECTED POLITICS?

>> RIGHT NOW, I'VE AGREED TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE INSTITUTE OF POLITICS AT ASU, AND IT'S A NONPARTISAN INSTITUTION, AND WE'LL HAVE A LOT OF SPEAKERS COME IN ON A NONPARTISAN BASIS, AND GIVE STUDENTS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MINGLE WITH PRACTITIONERS IN THE FIELD.

POLITICIANS NOT JUST ELECTED OFFICIALS, BUT AMBASSADORS AND CABINET OFFICIALS AND OTHERS, WHO WILL COME ON CAMPUS TO MEET WITH THE STUDENTS.

TED: I LIED.

THIS IS MY LAST QUESTION.

YOU DIDN'T RUN FOR RE-ELECTION.

>> RIGHT.

TED: DO YOU REGRET THAT DECISION?

>> NOT AT ALL.

TED: NOT A BIT?

>> I LOOK AT ANOTHER SIX YEARS IN THE SENATE.

I LOVED THE SENATE AS AN INSTITUTION AND THE HOUSE AS WELL.

A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, BUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO AND BE AN AMBASSADOR AND REPRESENT THE COUNTRY, THAT'S THE HONOR OF A LIFETIME.

SO IT WAS GOOD TIMING.

TED: U.S.

SENATOR AND AMBASSADOR, JEFF FLAKE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU.

.

TED: THE MARTHA GRAHAM DANCE COMPANY IS CELEBRATING CENTENNIAL WITH GRAHAM 100, INCLUDES TWO NEW WORKS ALONG WITH A CLASSIC FAVORITE.

PERFORMANCES THIS FRIDAY AT THE SCOTTSDALE CENTER FOR PERFORMING ARTS.

WE WELCOME IN DIANDRA ADAMCZYK FROM SCOTTSDALE CENTER FOR THE ARTS.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

TED: YOU BET.

THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST MODERN DANCE COMPANY IN THE U.S., CORRECT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT IS THE OLDEST DANCE COMPANY IN THE U.S., AND MARTHA GRAHAM IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE MOTHER OF MODERN DANCE.

TED: WHY IS SHE SO REVERED?

>> SHE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO BREAK THE RIGID RULES OF BALLET AND CREATE HER OWN FORM OF MOVEMENT, THAT WAS REALLY EXPRESSIVE AND EMBODIED HUMAN SPIRIT AND EMOTIONS AND CREATED A WHOLE NEW TECHNIQUE CALLED THE GRAHAM TECHNIQUE, THAT IS STILL PRACTICED AND TAUGHT TODAY.

>> I GOT TO ASK YOU, WHAT IS THE GRAHAM TECHNIQUE?

>> IT IS A LOT OF RESTRICTION AND EXPANSION KIND OF SYMBOLIC OF THE HUMAN BREATH.

TED: INTERESTING.

>> YES, VERY FLUID AND VERY UNLIKE THE RIGIDITY OF BALLET.

TED: MORE OF LIKE A TENSION AND RELIEF SORT OF THING?

>> YEAH.

TED: OKAY, PARTICULARLY AMERICAN AS WELL, I WOULD IMAGINE?

>> YES, SHE'S VERY KNOWN FOR CAPTURING AN AMERICAN SPIRIT AND APPALACHIAN SPRING, WHICH IS ON THE PROGRAM IS DEFINITELY EMBODYING THAT STYLE OF HERS.

FOLLOWED A YOUNG MARRIED COUPLE INTO A NEW FRONTIER, THE AMERICAN WEST, AND HAS A LOT OF AMERICAN FOLKLORE AND CULTURE IN IT.

TED: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PERFORMANCES.

I WANT TO GET ON APPALACHIAN SPRING IN A SECOND.

START WITH WE THE PEOPLE, THESE ARE NEW PIECES, TALK TO US ABOUT THAT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S REALLY EXCITING BECAUSE GRAHAM HAS OVER 100 WORKS OF HER OWN, BUT RECENTLY TO CELEBRATE THEIR CENTENNIAL, THEY HAVE COMMISSIONED NEW CHOREOGRAPHERS -- TO CREATE NEW WORK FOR THE COMPANY.

SO THIS PIECE WAS CHOREOGRAPHED BY A MAN BASED IN THE U.K., ALSO A COMPOSER.

THEY'RE INSPIRED BY THE TECHNO RACE SCENE AND BROUGHT IT TO A CHOREOGRAPHED LEVEL.

THIS IS A PIECE OF -- WE THE PEOPLE.

TED: THIS IS WE THE PEOPLE, RIGHT?

>> JAMAR ROBERTS, BASED IN NEW YORK, HE'S THE CHOREOGRAPHER OF THAT PIECE.

IT'S A REMOUNTING OF AGNES De MILLE'S PIECE OF AMERICANA.

IT HAS THE AMERICAN SPIRIT, JUST LIKE MARTHA GRAHAM, AND THE MUSIC IS SET BY RHIANNON GUINNEN.

TED: I LOVE THE CONTEMPORARY NATURE OF ALL THIS.

>> IT'S A FRESH PERSPECTIVE OF AMERICA TODAY.

TED: CAVE IS BACK, WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ORIGINALLY.

>> YES, WITH HOSHA, THE U.K.

CHOREOGRAPHER.

TED: AND A RAVE SCENE?

>> IT'S HIGH-ENERGY, COLLECTIVE MOVEMENT, REALLY CATHARTIC TO EMBODY THAT SPIRIT OF DANCING TOGETHER AND ALL BEING IN SYNC.

TED: YEAH, WE GOT -- WE SAW WE, THE PEOPLE.

WE'RE LOOKING AT CAVE RIGHT THERE.

AND YOU MENTIONED APPALACHIAN SPRING SUITE, THAT IS SOMETHING PEOPLE MIGHT BE FAMILIAR WITH BECAUSE APPALACHIAN SPRING IS A CLASSIC, AARON COPELAND CLASSIC.

>> YES, HE CREATED THE SCORE FOR MARTHA GRAHAM AND WON A PULITZER FOR IT, AND CREATED IN 1944.

IT'S STILL RELEVANT AND INTERESTING TO BE SHOWN.

I THINK IT'S REALLY SPECIAL BECAUSE IT TAKES PLACE OUT IN THE WEST, AND HAS A LOT OF WESTERN FLARE TO IT.

TED: AND ALL THE OCTAVES GOING UP AND DOWN WITH AARON.

>> YEAH.

TED: WE WATCHED THIS AND OTHER PERFORMANCES THERE.

FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T WELL VERSED IN MODERN DANCE AND GOING I THINK I'M MISSING SOMETHING, I THINK I'M MISSING SOMETHING HERE.

HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE THEM TO GO TO A PERFORMANCE?

WHAT DO YOU LOOK AT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?

>> I LIKE CONTEMPORARY DANCE, UNLIKE TRADITIONAL DANCE FORMS THERE IS NOT ONE SET TECHNIQUE THAT DANCERS USE, AND THERE ISN'T ONE MEANING THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO TAKE AWAY.

SO IT'S REALLY YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE PIECE, AND THERE'S A LOT OF HUMANISTIC ELEMENTS THAT GET BROUGHT IN, AND IT'S REALLY A REFLECTION, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH TODAY AS PEOPLE.

TED: BUT LET'S SAY THE CAVE.

DO YOU HAVE TO KNOW THAT IT WAS INSPIRED BY THE RAVE SCENE OR DO YOU NOT NEED TO KNOW THAT?

>> I DEFINITELY THINK YOU DO NOT NEED TO.

WE HAVE PROGRAM BOOKS AND INFORMATION ABOUT THE WORKS, BUT I THINK THE ARTIST REALLY WANTS YOU TO FEEL A GUT REACTION, AND WANTS YOU TO EXPERIENCE THE PIECE HOWEVER YOU COME TO IT, AND YEAH, WHAT YOU TAKE AWAY FROM IT IS DIFFERENT FROM EVERY PERSON.

TED: AND LATER, YOU CAN LOOK IT UP AND DO THE RESEARCH ON IT AND SAY, YEAH, ALL RIGHT, MAYBE THE SECOND TIME YOU SEE IT, YOU COULD LOOK FOR SOMETHING OR EXPERIENCE SOMETHING DIFFERENCE?

>> THERE IS A POST-SHOW Q&A, SO THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DIVE DEEPER IN WHAT YOU WERE INTERESTED IN, IN WHAT YOU THOUGHT THE PIECE WAS ABOUT.

TED: ONE NIGHT ONLY, RIGHT?

>> ONE NIGHT.

TED: FRIDAY NIGHT, ALL THREE WORKS.

MARTHA GRAHAM HAS BEEN AROUND 100 YEARS, HUH?

>> YEAH, STILL GOING STRONG.

TED: GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, CONGRATULATIONS AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

TED: THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.

Support for Arizona.

PBS comes from viewers like you and from