This week on the Wheelhouse.. Faith.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

His birthday.

And an enduring commemoration.

For Connecticut public.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

This is the Wheelhouse.. The show that connects politics to the people.

We got your weekly dose of politics in Connecticut and beyond right here.

Martin Luther King Junior's birthday is observed every January.

This hour, we'll examine how the date will be marked this year, 40 years on from the inaugural celebration in 1986.

Allen Spears works for the National Parks Conservation Association, a group that advocates for national parks across the United States.

He works to make sure the National Park Service is.

Efforts to honor American history are culturally inclusive.

Allen, thank you for joining us.

Talk about Martin Luther King Jr today.

My pleasure.

Thank you for having me.

Good to see you.

Good to have you on.

Bilal Sekou Hillyer College associate professor of political science at the University of Hartford.

He keeps a close eye on how the United States government is approaching diversity, equity and inclusion efforts.

Thanks for being here in studio this morning, Bilal.

Thanks for having me and go Hawks.

How are you observing Martin Luther King Junior's birthday?

Share with us in the comment section of our YouTube stream, or give us a call (888) 720-9677, (888) 720-9677.

The Lore of Martin Luther King Jr.

Born on January 15th, 1929, in Atlanta, Georgia.

We celebrate his birthday every year on the third Monday of January.

When did we start doing that?

And can you give us a sense of the political push that happened in the 1980s or so to honor Martin Luther King Junior in that way?

Well, unlike you, Frankie, I was actually alive and involved.

I wasn't.

Alive, your life.

Alive.

And you know, someone who was involved in this sort of effort to, celebrate and acknowledge the, you know, the incredible importance of Doctor King to American history, not just the black community, but to all of America.

I remember when Stevie Wonder hit that incredible song.

I remember the effort to push across the country for, you know, this celebration, something that many African-Americans and many other Americans had already been acknowledging, given Doctor King's, importance.

And so, you know, that, you know, moment in history was just an incredibly important moment, more than just a symbolic gesture, but an important acknowledgment of the impact that Doctor King and the work he did, along with the many other activists, you know, who were involved, many of them who are not known by most people but made a tremendous contribution that really transformed the country.

And I think in many ways, I personally stand on their shoulders.

And the fact that I am here, someone who grew up in a, you know, impoverished, family, welfare dependent, single parent household who was able to obtain a PhD and now sit across the table from the Frankie Gris.

The ILO is really a part of that legacy.

You got a PhD, and, I've seen your beautiful mother, too, in the family that you have.

I love your family.

Incredible accomplishment for you to achieve all that.

In the most basic sense, you're sitting on the shoulders of.

You said these folks that have have done this.

Why should Americans pause for at least one moment each year to can, to to remember Martin Luther King, Jr.

And tell me about that impact a little bit.

You know, I think, you know, stopping to to pause and to pause on more than just the words that we often, you know, gravitate to, which is his 1963 speech.

I mean, later on in the show, are you going to talk about his stance against Vietnam?

He was a human rights activist who had a global impact, not just in the United States.

He's someone who is admired, for the leadership that he, provided and the risk he took and ultimately, the sacrifice of his life to really transform America and fight for some of, in my mind, some of the most important pieces of legislation the Civil Rights Act, the voting rights Act.

And I think at this particular moment, this particular, celebration of him is particularly important given the current political attacks that are occurring on die on the legacy of Doctor King in terms of the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act.

I mean, all of these things are under attack.

We have a white Christian nationalist movement that is taking place in our country.

A president who talks about the achievements of the civil rights movement have somehow been bad for white America, rather than see it as something that is really transformed our society and has been part of an effort that has been going on for centuries.

As we enter the 250 diversity of the country effort to really create an inclusive democracy, which is what Doctor King struggled for and ultimately gave his life for.

I said in the intro that, you keep a close eye on these these efforts, or at least, as you say, attacks on them because you posited before the administration started, before the inauguration, on the show, you were worried about, what might happen to diversity, equity and inclusion efforts.

We're going to talk about that as we go along on this show.

I'm going to set up what you're sort of alluding to here, and this recent news we have about Martin Luther King Jr, his birthday, by talking first about the National Park Service as the resident historian for the National Parks Conservation Association.

Allen, what is the responsibility of the National Park Service?

Well, the agency was established in 1916, and they have a founding charter, the Organic Act, that places with them the responsibility for protecting, enhancing, preserving and interpreting the nation's natural, historic, cultural, scenic and recreational resources.

One of the things that I think is important for people to understand is that I think by reputation, the National Park Service is seen as an agency that manages large landscapes, places like the Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, Yosemite and that's true.

But for every one of those large landscape natural areas, the Park Service has at least two smaller historic and cultural sites.

So here in Washington, D.C., we've got the Frederick Douglass home, the Mary McLeod Bethune Council home down in Richmond, Virginia, the Maggie Walker site.

And then as we spread across the country, the Park Service also manages places like Fort Davis in West Texas.

That was a site named after Jefferson Davis when he was the secretary of war for the United States of America.

And it was also the duty station for all four regiments of the Buffalo Soldiers or black regular troops between 1867 and 1888, and that places like Yorktown Final victory, Gettysburg National Military Park, and the list goes on and on.

There are about 433 units of the National Park System right now.

These individual park sites, plus a bunch of programs, and they, by virtue of the sites they manage and the stories they interpret and preserve, are one of the leading storytellers in the United States.

And one thing I want you to get into later to talk about is going to be the Emmett Till, stat, what's the exact, you give me the exact term there?

I don't want to say statue.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

It's so it's one of our newest national park units.

It's the Emmett Till and maybe Tom Mobley National Monument.

National monument.

That's what I was looking for, I apologize.

In the Mississippi Delta and in, South side of Chicago.

Because Mamie Till Mobley has her own, designation as well, too.

Correct.

Not for the national parks there.

There could be monuments for maybe to Mobley.

She was a courageous warrior.

And after the murder of her son in 1955, she spent the rest of her life trying to make sure that what happened to it didn't happen to anybody else's kids.

But in July of 2023, President Joe Biden used the Antiquities Act in 1906 law to designate the Emmett Till and maybe to Mobley National Monument.

What happened to Emmett Till kind of sets up some of the things we're going to talk about today with Martin Luther King Jr and, Rosa Parks as well.

Well, we'll get to that later.

The National Park Service has marked Doctor King's birthday by offering free admission to visitors.

How long has that been done, Alan?

It got started recently.

So it was, in the waning days of the Biden administration.

So January of 2025, it hadn't been around for a long time, and now it's not around at all.

Yeah, not even a year.

The Trump administration, sort of dumps it.

How does the national park system honor Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement, at least?

How did those how were those celebrate planned?

Excuse me?

Well, so we can talk about the fee free days, but maybe the best place to start on this real quick is the fact that there are currently three units, again, in the national park system that have the responsibility for directly interpreting or commemorating Doctor King Junior's legacy.

So we've got his boyhood home in Atlanta, which is the cornerstone.

Where is Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta?

We've got the Selma to Montgomery Trail because Doctor King played such an incredible role in helping to finish that March.

After Bloody Sunday in, March of 1965.

And then more recently, we have the King Space down on the National Mall, just kind of proximate to the place where Doctor King delivered the 1963 I Have a Dream speech, in front of the Lincoln Memorial.

So the Park Service interprets his history through those three sites.

But his history and the history of American civil rights is interwoven throughout a variety of National Park Service interpretive materials, including, if you go up to Gettysburg National Military Park in Pennsylvania, one of my favorite national park units, you will see the interpretive film A New Birth of Freedom, narrated capably by Morgan Freeman, and it is a video about a Civil War battle that took place in July of 1863.

It concludes with black and white video footage of Doctor King leading a civil rights march.

So the idea of suggesting that, you know, the past is very much influencing and tied to the present is one of the ways that the National Park Service interprets American civil rights history.

They have done a really good job, which makes, some of the turnabout and some of the censorship and history erasure more troubling.

That turnabout you mentioned was that, the Biden administration says last year, hey, we want to make sure that at the national parks, you can enjoy them for free on Martin Luther King Junior's birthday, also on Juneteenth.

And then the Trump administration comes in a year later and, turns that down, tears that down.

Excuse me.

Yes, sir.

It's a pretty penny move.

No.

Let's set the stage here for some context.

African-American folks, all Americans, all people can go to national parks at any point in time during the year.

But 50 days are meant to do a couple things.

One, to help prove to the public that national parks are tied to their history, their family, their legacy.

And so it was a really good idea to say, okay, we're going to open up some of the national parks that require fees on Doctor Martin Luther King Jr and his birthday.

It's a way to respect, true American icon.

So this as a policy perspective, it's petty.

It hurts.

It's meant to hurt.

And it also doesn't do anything, really, to take care of some of the major challenges that are facing our national parks over the last year, 2025, they lost 25% of their permanent workforce to the fork in the road program and Dodge cuts and buyouts and other things like that.

We've got a decent budget coming out of the US House of Representatives and United States Senate for FY 26, but things could be better.

And this administration also wants to make even more burdensome cuts, on the Park Service.

And we've got an effort by the leading storyteller in this country to make sure that our history is accurate, just an inclusive.

They've been working towards that for three decades now and making great progress.

It's not finished work and it has been done perfectly, but I'm proud to say I've worked with Park Service colleagues to make things better.

And now we're seeing that rug pulled out from under us, and we're going to go back to a place where, the country was founded, people moved to the West.

There wasn't anybody in the woods.

We made the country great.

Then we elected Barack Obama president today.

We're fine.

Bayonets and bullets was one way you looked at Gettysburg in the past, at least how it was described.

But now there's that because it's more inclusive, where we're taking sort of a total look, but it may be reduced to bayonets and bullets is one thing I got from a pre-interview, with Alan Spears that I really appreciated, that you, that you, that you gave me that perspective.

What's the explanation been given, Alan, in terms of cutting these dates from a portion of the calendar dedicated to free admission?

What what are they saying, at least, as as line to the public?

So let me interpret, because I'm not in touch with anybody from the administration.

They're not returning my phone calls.

And I haven't actually made any phone calls, but, the best I can do is to suggest to you that this administration came in to its second term in office with a sense that the history of the country was being taken too far to the left, that it was too woke, that it was too tied to diversity, equity and inclusion.

So a lot of the progress that the National Park Service had made towards making parks more relevant, more accessible to a wider variety of people on the planet, people in the country they identified as being highly, highly problematic.

And so we're seeing a rollback in terms of what interpretive materials the Park Service is allowed to present to the public.

And we're seeing things like, you know, very easy targets like the fee free days for Juneteenth and the Martin Luther King Jr birthday just being sort of plucked away.

We also saw in December, and I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with this, but there was a directive that came from the Park Service that said that Park Service folks, if you've got a gift shop or a bookstore that's on NPS federal land and it is selling things like keychains with images of Harriet Tubman or Frederick Douglass on a box them up and send them back to the vendor.

We don't want that stuff available to the public to purchase, in a retail capacity.

So these are all elements of the same effort, I think, to erase history, sanitize history.

And, you know, they start with the keychain, they start with taking a book off a shelf.

It may start with removing an interpretive sign that disparages the Confederacy or talks about race, racism or white supremacy.

But we've seen where this ends.

And in one of the last instances where we saw the excising of African-American history at a basic level from U.S.

history, what we got was the failure of reconstruction, the introduction of Jim Crow, and decades and decades of some of the worst racial violence and inequality that this country has ever seen.

And so the issue that we have here is it's real easy to make this look simple.

We're, you know, we're not saying we're not going to celebrate MLK.

We're not saying we're not going to celebrate Juneteenth.

We've just taken the 50 days away.

We're not saying that slavery wasn't a root cause of the American Civil War.

We're just taking down some of the interpretive signage about this.

But this is exactly how this stuff starts, and we're worried about where we end up.

One of the I'm looking at a USA today article USA didn't get comment from the NPS, but one of the things I had seen online, as a reason given in one of the other news articles that I read, is that they were ironically talking about accessibility.

So it sounds like some of the days were changed around so that maybe they could add more days to the calendar, and they decided to take away some days.

And the days that they picked happened to honor black history.

So that's rather interesting that they're arguing about accessibility, and yet they're not making it accessible for certain people.

Nonetheless, just wanted to button up that conversation by saying that the that the two days actually cut our, Martin Luther King junior birthday and a national Emancipation Day.

Juneteenth.

Why is that a problem?

Why is it a problem?

I meant.

Know that loaded.

I mean, I am and I think is quite eloquently laid it out, in terms, the way it's being presented to the public, I would go further.

I think what we have is an administration that is a part of a larger movement in America, that the goal is to erase the history of not only black people, but other people of color as well.

I'm sure Allen can sort of talk about some of the other things that highlight the contributions of Latino Americans and Indigenous American indigenous people that are also being erased.

And but I think part of what's interesting is that these things are being erased from American history.

Well, what is being sort of privileged to add?

It, of course, is this sort of narrative around the idea that America was founded for white people, that the people who have made the most significant contributions to American history have been white people, that the people who have sacrificed the most, in our society and have been harmed the most, certainly by efforts to promote equality.

You know, I sort of live with this idea that people who are used to privilege are the ones who see equality as a form of oppression.

And so we are in a moment now where we have an administration that is a part of a broader movement in society that really does, in fact, believe in.

A few years ago, the National Opinion Research Center did a survey in which a majority of white Americans actually agreed that reverse discrimination was a larger problem than discrimination against black and brown people and indigenous people and others.

And so, in that sense, when Donald Trump talks about how the civil rights movement has badly treated white Americans in the post-civil rights.

Movement, not just white Americans, we've been talking about this offense.

I, I've been alive for 36 years.

Never in my life have I ever heard about the plight of white South Africans, white.

South.

Africans.

We're hearing about that a lot.

And in particular white males, in particular, white males.

And there's this sort of sense that the achievements of the civil rights movement move the country away from a much more egalitarian, egalitarian British society in which merit and ability really shaped the way people succeeded to fail.

Which not only is a myth, but it is a complete rewriting of American history.

And I think that's what's sort of interesting is that what's happening at the national parks is not just erasing, but also, as Allen has pointed out, a rewriting of that history, a retelling of that history that centers whiteness.

And moves to not just the periphery, but moves completely off the table, the experiences of other people of color.

And I think in many ways, the efforts that we're seeing now occur around, immigration is really also an effort to racially and ethnically cleanse the society.

So I feel like we're at the beginning of this.

Unless people are willing to fight back.

From Connecticut Public Radio.

This is the Wheelhouse.. I'm Frankie Graziano.

You've been listening to Allen Spears with the National Parks Conservation Association, and you heard Polly Sy, Professor Vlasic COO.

We're having them both on the show, and they're going to stay with us.

But after the break, we're going to be joined by somebody that says, when it comes to these types of policy changes on diversity, equity and inclusion, the federal government is saying the quiet part out loud hit us up (888)720-9677.

You're listening to the Wheelhou Adam, today in your celebration.

We all know it.

On my.

That there ought to be a time.

That you can set aside.

So you're listening because you stand with the facts.

Thank you.

This is the Wheelhouse.

from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

There's at least one federal policy change to the way Americans can observe Martin Luther King Jr.

S birthday in 2026.

You heard political science professor Bilal Sekou and Alan Spears with the National Parks Association, or Conservation Association.

Excuse me?

Examine news that King's birthday is no longer a day of free park admission at national parks in 2026.

And now they'll be joined by a national political commentator to look at other policies where the federal government may be at odds with black history.

Charlie Sykes writes for his to the contrary Substack and hosts a podcast by the same name.

Charlie, thank you for joining The Wheelhouse.

this morning.

So very happy to have you on.

We want to know what folks thoughts on the federal government's position related to DDR.

Hit us up on our YouTube stream or call us at 887209677.

Charlie.

I want to move.

To King's, Martin Luther King's Beyond Vietnam antiwar speech given on April 4th, 1967, a year before he was assassinated.

I'm going to play this clip.

And then Charlie or anybody pretty much can respond to this.

Just give me some.

I want to hear some visceral reaction to it.

Go ahead.

And we are to get on the right side of the word revolution.

We as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values.

We must rapidly begin to shift from a thing oriented society to a person oriented society.

With machines and consumers, profit motives and property rights.

Are considered more important than people.

The giants triplets of racism, extreme materialism and militarism.

I am capable of being come true.

Revolution values will soon cause us to question the fairness and justice of many of our past and present policies.

Charlie, that's 1967.

What sticks out to you as you listen to that clip in 2026?

Well, you know, as you've been discussing, what really strikes me is the way in which the federal government has decided to try to erase most of the history of the 1960s.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that, you're you're seeing a rollback of the entire civil rights era, by the administration, which is increasingly engaging in, frankly, very radical revolutionary rhetoric of their own.

Ian, as you point out, I once wrote saying the quiet part out loud about race, but we've certainly come an awful long way from 1964 and 1967.

It's it's it is, about, 60 years.

Sorry I had to do the quick math in my head, I apologize.

It is about 60 years.

But nonetheless, militarization is one of the giant triplets that are mentioned in there, by Doctor King.

And that's Vietnam.

And now Venezuela maybe is something that folks are talking about in 2026.

So there's certainly a connection to be made there, at least in terms of one of the triplets, Charlie.

Well, it is interesting.

I mean, Donald Trump seems obsessed in getting the Nobel Peace Prize, but he's also obsessed in starting small wars.

The fact that this morning where we are seriously having to consider the possibility of the United States military takeover of Greenland, you know, feels like we've fallen, through the looking glass in terms of militarization and part of what you're seeing is I think Stephen Miller, who said the quiet part out loud, he said, who's going to stop us from taking Greenland?

This is the iron law that the strong get to take what they want.

And so what the Trump administration is saying is we have the world's greatest military.

Why not use it?

Why not use it to take things, that we want?

It is an extraordinary moment in American history.

Yeah.

The lawyer, an avid Nobel Peace Prize, Donald Trump watcher there.

What what do you have to say?

I saw you chuckle as, we heard that from Charlie Sykes.

Go ahead.

I mean, the thought that someone who is threatening war or actually initiating war, not only abroad, but also on American streets, imagines that they should are worthy recipients of a Nobel Peace Prize.

It's just amazing.

It's an amazing thing to think about.

I think, you know what strikes me about Doctor King's speech, you know, in the late 60s and his decision to speak out against militarization in warfare, particularly in particular the Vietnam War.

Many of his lieutenants actually opposed him taking those public positions against the war.

So it was an incredible act of courage on Doctor King's part.

And he was heavily criticized by a lot of the mainstream media, like The New York Times and others, that essentially argued that he was a civil rights activist and not someone who should be speaking about a foreign policy.

And I think we're in this moment now where these kinds of voices are really desperately needed.

You know, who can command that kind of attention to draw more attention to this kind of militarization and really a form of American expansionism and imperialism that, you know, we haven't seen in this country, at least in more than a century.

We can think about Cuba and the Philippines and those wars that the U.S.

engaged in.

So we are in an extraordinary moment, as Charlie Sykes said.

And it's really amazing that this president can, be one of the greatest purveyor of war in the world today, and also someone who desires deeply to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

And I want to dig in directly to Charlie Sykes commentary on rhetoric that we're not just hearing.

We're also seeing in policy late last year and year to the contrary.

Substack, you wrote about U.S.

national security strategy, and there you said the racism isn't just an irritable gesture.

It's official U.S.

policy, and it's right there in writing.

Can you elaborate on what you meant by that and to the situation we're talking about?

Yeah.

Thank you.

I mean, this was really an extraordinary document.

This is the official national security strategy of the United States.

And, you know, you got what got most of the attention was the, the, you know, the isolationism, the militarism of the of the document, the contempt for Western democracies.

But but I, you know, you can't pass over the the language that was once confined to the darkest edges of the internet, talking about, you know, Europe and Gate, you know, suffering from civilizational erasure or being, unrecognizable because of immigration.

And I think that this kind of rhetoric, you know, is seeping into the kinds of things that the president himself says that you hear from his aides.

But the fact that they put it in writing, I thought, was extraordinary, by the way, I was glad they put it in writing.

So at least we're not speculating.

We are not projecting that, in fact, they're using this kind of language.

And I don't know whether you've been following the kinds of things that the Department of Homeland Security is posting on social media, or the ice is posting, or the kinds of slogans they're using.

What is it?

You know, one nation, one heritage, one people, which, you know, sounded better in the original German.

The fact that they would embrace this kind of rhetoric openly, is is a frightening moment, but it's also a clarifying moment.

It's really kind of a stress test to what kind of a people we are.

And does harken back to the 1960s when, when we were challenged, when the soul of the nation and the character of the nation was challenged.

Oh, boy.

It's hard to have you on the show, Charlie, because I have to keep a straight face after what you just said.

Poverty.

And really, affordability is what we're trying to get to here as part of the three.

And then I'm thinking about soul of the nation.

Birth of the nation is another connection.

Thank you very much, Charlie Sykes, that I could make for you.

Poverty and really, affordability is what we're trying to get to here as part of the the three evils.

The Urban Institute, a think tank found in late, October of 2025 that 52% of people in American families don't have the resources to cover what it really costs to live securely in their community below.

And that's one of the triplets we're talking about as poverty.

Let's dig into that.

Or is anybody trying to really get into that?

And that's something that Martin Luther King wanted to tackle back in 67.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that will be interesting, they have really dismantled government's, ability to collect data on a wide range of indicators of inequality, for example, in society, not only in terms of wealth and income, but also health statistics and other things.

And I think that's very intentional.

I think, as Charlie has alluded to with the, you know, the comment about it sounded better in the original German.

We are hearing people not only talk about things that sound very similar to, replacement theory and their belief that this is real.

The attacks reverse discrimination and the things that, for example, are being done by RFK Jr, which, you know, one person who left, the CDC described as a kind of eugenics program that he's engaged in.

And so I think we really have people who, have no concern, about the sort of growing inequality that's occurring.

The wealth concentration that's occurring in our society.

And actually, because of their sort of deep, beliefs and racial and social hierarchy are not bothered by the possibility that the weakest among us will perish.

And so the issue of poverty, unemployment, the black unemployment rate is about 8.5% now and rising.

I think the effects of government cuts will decimate a lot of black middle class families because the black community disproportionately is employed by government, particularly the federal government.

When the Department of Education was gutted, that gutted, that took the jobs of a lot of people, especially black women who have been impacted.

And so black families are going to be harmed.

You're going to see rising poverty rates, people who are going to lose the ability to pay for education for the kids, lose their ability to have access to health care.

With these cuts back.

And ultimately, what will happen is that people will die, people will slip into poverty, people will die.

We're already seeing that at the global level with the impact on USA.

And so I think this is quite intentional.

I think this is a part of the strategy, and it's something that we need to draw much more attention to.

Martin Luther King Junior's words on poverty in his giant triplets of racism that he's talking about there in the be it beyond Vietnam speech in April of 1967, resonating with black, who 60 years later, and also maybe with Markel from New London, who is calling us right now, who is trying to do something about poverty on Martin Luther King Junior birthday.

Can you tell us about it?

Markel.

Yes, thank you for taking my call.

There's a, an MLK Monkey King connection to Connecticut.

He had, worked, to tobacco, farms and and up in, in the Tobacco Valley.

And also he had frequent the churches, I believe, in Hartford, the North in, and and with that in he had inspired to, young black women to, the horn to open a, a soup kitchen, a community mills.

It's been operating for the last 40 years.

And it serves, a number of people.

And on that day, I'm a volunteer.

But on that day particular, I was, combat, what the president was saying about, social injustice and giveaways and, during the, the shutdown, we had about 400 people for lunch.

We had twice the amount.

That was ironic that, during the shutdown of how transcendent the situation was.

So I want to thank you for your, your, to taking my call.

Markelle.

Thank you for for doing something and then telling us about it, too.

I appreciate that.

That's very poignant.

That Markelle shares that with us today.

Not only is he doing this in service to Martin Luther King's legacy, but it sounds like it's a little bit of, a little bit of a jab back at some of the things that we're hearing from the administration about entitlement spending and things like that below.

Absolutely.

You know, I'm particularly interested, you know, Charlie, is, you know, actually, you know, involved with this at the national level, having many conversations with lots of people has been a part of the effort to push back against, the the Trump administration on many of these issues that are raising some particularly important issues.

I'm sort of curious if I can ask him a question about, you know, what are people that you are?

What's the sense of the momentum to really deal, more openly with these issues you raised, for example, about race?

You know, for me, there was a great deal of hesitancy, you know, the very beginning of this for people in the media to even use terms like white supremacy or racism or to really talk about Christian, you know, nationalism.

And and I'm impressed that that discourse has been evolving, over the last year.

I mean, what's your sort of sense of how this is happening?

No, I think you're right.

And I think in, in part it's because the the rhetoric is so naked, it's not subtle, it's not concealed.

And so, you know, for, you know, many people on the right, we're saying, no, this is an exaggeration that they're engaging in this kind of racism.

And then Donald Trump says, you know, it says it out loud.

In terms of the trajectory of all of this, we've been doing this for ten years now.

And so I, I'm always hesitant to buy into people who are saying, well, this is the turning point, or the walls are closing in or, you know, this is the pivot.

But I will say that there, you know, I've been thinking about that this morning.

There is a certain inevitability to the fate of people who are overcome with hubris.

And what you're seeing with the administration is this sort of raw arrogance that we can say and do anything.

We can get away with anything.

No one can stop us.

We're going to go and we're going to take Greenland.

We're going to, we're going to find ways of justifying shooting a woman in the face in Minneapolis.

And that kind of hubris, I think, might be catching up with the administration.

So, in the last week, I have heard more people.

I'm really, really, really struck by who feel emotionally unsettled by what's been happening and what they are seeing in a way that they have not in recent years.

Now, the last few years have been highly emotionally unsettling, but I think that there's some it feels like it's coming to a head.

So I think that there is a recognition that, oh my God, whatever we thought this was, it's way worse.

And the kind of historical echoes that we're hinting at here are becoming unavoidable, at least thinking about and talking about.

Go ahead.

Actually excel in the question.

Also, I'm really interested in how, you know, as this sort of push to change the narrative that the spaces that you are working in, I know as someone who grew up in Detroit, I think an opportunity to visit national parks just didn't do those kinds of things.

And I imagine that that can be an incredible experience for people to do that.

I mean, how do you see with this these changes have been made, how that will affect the stories we tell about these spaces, about our country.

Well, that's a great question.

And of course, when we go into the third hour segment of the program, we can have a conversation about the I think, this country decided more than 100 years ago that we were going to protect these landscapes, these places, these resources, these stories, these themes in perpetuity for the benefit, enjoyment and inspiration of the public.

That's all of us now.

In 1916, when the National Park Service was established, and in 1919, when my organization and the National Parks Conservation Association and the National Parks Association were established, black people and brown people had some other things going on in the country.

The folks that, founded in did so in Washington, DC about a month before a major four day race riot.

But this is still a part of our legacy.

And the fact that the Frederick Douglass home here in DC is a part of the same national park system as the Grand Canyon.

I think there's something totally awesome about that.

And so these places are worth fighting for.

And not only because of these large, incredible natural landscapes and places like Yosemite and Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon.

But because of the historic and cultural resources that are there, because of their connection, sometimes it's not always a great connection with First Nations and Indigenous people.

The fact that there are over 40 African-American experience sites within the national park system, and we are working to increase the number of sites or stories that are tied to Latino heritage, Hispanic heritage, Asian Pacific Islander American heritage, again, First Nations and tribal people.

And a couple of years ago, we got the Stonewall Inn in lower New York, which is the first site in the National park system to commemorate the history of the LGBTQ, civil rights movement.

That uprising in the summer of 1969 that led to the modern LGBTQ civil rights movement.

We're not done yet, and this is worth fighting for.

So as we see efforts to push back on what's happening, the progress that we've been making in terms of the way we tell our history, the way that we talk about our natural resources, the way we talk about our climate emergency.

I feel like that's true, at least.

Like I said, we may be reaching a groundswell where people are now beginning to realize that, you know, it's the Joni Mitchell big yellow taxi movement, right?

That it always seemed to go that you don't know what you got to.

It's gone.

And I think we got some people out there who don't want to wait until it's gone to protect and preserve these special places, because it's our legacy, all of ours.

Amazing words.

I wish I could just let you guys keep talking, but I gotta do a little business here to tell people they can call (888)720-9677, just like Markelle did.

Thank you so much for the call.

Oh, I'm getting some music.

So I got to go to break (888)720-9677 more Wheelhouse.. After this.

This is the Wheelhouse.

from Connecticut Public Radio.

I'm Frankie Graziano.

Earlier in the show, we talked about the federal government doing away with the past effort to mark Martin Luther King Junior's birthday at U.S.

national parks.

So have you heard political science professor Bilal Sekou, National Parks Conservation Association resident historian Alan Spears, and host of To the Contrary, Charlie Sykes with us once, Martin Luther King Jr.

His legacy in America.

How are you reflecting on it during his birthday celebration?

Call (888)720-9677 now or hit us up in the comments section of our YouTube stream.

Alan, with the removal of the fee free day.

What are the impacts to Americans in the national parks?

You said last, segment as we went to break.

It's kind of that big yellow taxi Joni Mitchell moment.

Do you feel like there's any kind of pushback to this?

At least?

I know, any number of organizations and individuals are concerned about this.

We also need to do a little level setting here, which is, again, the Park Service will still be commemorating and interpreting the history of Doctor Martin Luther King Jr as a civil rights icon, as an American icon.

That hasn't gone away yet.

Maybe next week.

We'll see about that.

And also, it's important to understand not all national parks charge fees so you can still get in there.

And black and brown people are going to national parks, on days that are not, coinciding with Doctor King's birthday or with Juneteenth.

So what we have here is, again, a very petty political decision.

It's designed to poke.

It's designed to hurt, and it's designed to be disrespectful.

And the idea is from an advocacy perspective, as someone who cares about national parks, I want the biggest, broadest and most engaged constituency for national parks that we can manage.

And that means hooking in, more diverse constituency within this country and globally.

One of the ways you can do that is by connecting national parks to the birthdays or days of relevance, of events, and of people that are maybe more tied to black and brown folks or Bipoc people.

And so this has been a big miss.

And I think it's being regarded deliberately as something that was designed to be disrespectful, petty and hurtful.

And so we're seeing some people push back against that.

We're going to continue to do some level setting.

I'll just first have because Sekou, a good friend of mine who is right next to me.

You're going to tell us something that was added to the calendar.

I neglected to mention this earlier, but you can go ahead.

You wanted to say it, and.

That was actually a surprise.

I didn't mention it as well.

He asked, but he added his birthday, which is also Flag Day to the calendar, is a free day.

So.

She's.

Just been really, caveat that, folks have been adding, I understand we have a call right now.

Let's go ahead to Jeff.

Hi.

Just one comment for you.

I want to throw in maybe a new word that we should be using and call it is racism works for you.

I like it.

Yeah.

I mean, it fits.

So anyways, that's my comment.

Let you go on with the show.

It's for.

Jeff.

Thank you so much for calling us.

Jeff from Coventry this morning.

Thank you so much for calling us.

Racism is one way to look at it.

And and let's keep racism.

Racism, here in mind as we go.

Do you guys see us?

You said tune back in next week.

Allen, as a as a kind of a joke that who knows what's going to happen next week.

Are there ways that they can go farther just just to quickly level set.

As Allen said earlier, Doctor King's birthday still a federal holiday.

We will celebrate it, next Monday.

Go ahead.

Charlie.

Believe Allen, any worry about any other things that might be rolled back in the future?

Well, I do think you are seeing this kind of erasure.

You know, Donald Trump is putting his name on, on various things, but, you know, I, I'm a little haunted by by the story of the the directive that came down to the, the gift shops of the, the national parks that if you have a keychain for Frederick Douglass or Harriet Tubman, box them up and take them away.

Okay.

Patty doesn't seem to cover it.

I mean, it is so crude.

It is so crude and and, aggressively stupid, to erase these names because these are not these are not diversity figures.

These are major figures of American history, are shared history as a shared people.

And this campaign seems like it wants to.

It feels a little bit like, you know, the old Soviet pictures where you would white out the face of somebody who had fallen from favor.

Except this time we're basically waiting out an entire stream of American history and tradition.

And frankly, that is what our shared heritage is.

So, I hope there is aggressive pushback.

And again, this exposes who they are that you have a regime that is so, and uncertain of itself, apparently, that it feels the need to, to do this kind of whitewashing of, of the American past.

We only got a couple of minutes left, guys.

So let me just kind of jump in and out here as they try to lightning round a couple of things.

53% of Americans last April disapproved of the administration's efforts to end AI and the federal government.

I don't know what that's going to look like.

Coming up this April in 2026, I imagine that figure could always change here.

We're talking about these things changing in the future and what might, what might happen in 2026.

We also have the 250th anniversary of America's independence.

Elaborate plans by the administration.

What I want to do over the next minute or so, or my next two minutes, is to try to talk about Doctor King's legacy a little more.

It was Alan Spears who told me the pre-interview that by 1967, when we're hearing, about Doctor Martin Luther King on Vietnam, Martin Luther King Jr is still, bringing that he here.

But he's also kind of an old head at this point.

And then he's gunned down about a year later.

So let's just talk a little bit more about his legacy in him.

His message still resonating here today.

Well, I'll go very quickly.

I was going to go to Alan.

I'm sorry.

Oh, great.

Yeah.

I mean, I just say really quickly that it's the Riverside address on actually, April 4th, 1967, one year before he was assassinated.

And he talks about the cessation of bombing in North Vietnam and bringing the troops home and ending the war.

And his ratings tank, they tank not just a more kind of mainstream media, but in the African-American community as well.

And so, one of the things to look at when determining Doctor King's legacy is where this man would have been, had it not been for an assassin's bullet if he had lived at the 1969, 1970, and so there's a weird, element to Doctor King's history in terms of his popularity and what it cost him to be brave enough to make those comments about justice and equality and and to militarism.

And, Alan, are you concerned about or do you think that there's going to be efforts here as we're, in America?

250 is it going to be bayonets and bullets the whole way, or will there be some room for Doctor King and other luminaries?

Well, there's going to be plenty of room.

So we've got a couple of different approaches to America.

250 there's the federal program, which is going to be all about, you know, bayonets and bullets and, hot dogs and fireworks.

But there are some folks operating at the state and the local level, and even some of our National Park Service colleagues who are still intent on giving us the broadest possible scope of the founding of the country, the challenges that we had, our successes.

Listen, the complexity of our history is the thing that makes it brilliant.

It's the thing that makes it interesting.

It's the thing that makes us us.

And as Abraham Lincoln would have said, their appearance, well, we didn't always live up to the better angels of our nature.

That's us too.

Bilal Sekou, you wanted to talk.

You got 20s.

Go ahead.

Give us something on Doctor King and his legacy.

I just wanted to say it's not only Doctor King's legacy, but the legacy of all of the people who fought during that decade.

Millions of Americans and millions of people around the world who share in that vision of an inclusive, a democratic society.

And we're still fighting for that today.

You've been listening to Bilal Sekou, the associate professor of politics and government at the University of Hartford.

Thank you for coming back on the show.

Allen Spears, the senior director of cultural resources at the National Parks Conservation Association.

And Charlie Sykes, the host of To the Contrary podcast and writer of the To the Contrary Substack.

Thank you all for helping us this morning.

This was a tremendous conversation.

It was produced by Tali Ricketts and Patrick Scahill.

Dylan Reyes was the editor or, excuse me, the technical producer.

Special thanks to everybody who helped us on the show.

This is the Wheelhouse.. I'm Frankie Graziano.

Have a good day.

Thank you.