>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Nash: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, AXING AMERICORPS.

THE LOCAL IMPACT OF FEDERAL CUTS TO THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY THAT'S TRAINED GENERATIONS OF AMERICANS TO HELP OTHERS.

>> Warren: ALREADY WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS A LACK OF SERVICES.

SO, THIS DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEIR ABILITY TO DO THEIR JOBS AND TO DELIVER THE REMAINING FUNDS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN CUT.

>> Nash: AND JACOB JOHNS, WHO SURVIVED A 2023 SHOOTING AT A PROTEST OF A JUAN DE ONATE STATUE, IS SUING RIO ARRIBA COUNTY OFFICIALS FOR ALLEGED CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I'M NASH JONES.

MORE THAN 30 YEARS AGO, THE U.S.

CREATED A FEDERAL AGENCY DEDICATED TO VOLUNTEERISM AND NATIONAL SERVICE.

IT GREW OVER THE DECADES AS IT RESPONDED TO NATIONAL EMERGENCIES, FROM 9-11 TO NATURAL DISASTERS, THE GREAT RECESSION, AND THE GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

AT THE SAME TIME, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, INDEPENDENT AUDITORS HAVE FOUND ISSUES WITH HOW IT MANAGES ITS FINANCES.

TODAY, AS A RESULT OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO DOWNSIZE PARTS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AMERICORPS IS A SHADOW OF WHAT IT ONCE WAS, EVEN JUST MONTH AGO.

MOST OF ITS STAFF HAVE BEEN FIRED.

AND NEARLY $400 MILLION IN FEDERAL GRANTS FOR PROGRAMS ADDRESSING EDUCATION, ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP, AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AMONG OTHER THINGS HAVE BEEN CANCELED.

THIS WEEK, WE LEARN HOW THESE DRASTIC CUTS ARE SHOWING UP RIGHT HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE'LL SPEAK WITH THE DIRECTOR OF A LOCAL PROGRAM THAT LOST ITS AMERICORPS GRANT AND THE FIRST NEW MEXICAN TO SERVE ON THE AGENCY'S NATIONAL BOARD.

YOU'LL ALSO HEAR REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR JAY BLOCK'S TAKE ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S COST-CUTTING EFFORTS OVERALL.

AND HIS PROPOSAL TO CREATE A STATE VERSION OF DOGE TO TARGET WHAT HE CALLS FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE IN SANTA FE.

LATER, WE'LL SHIFT GEARS A BIT, TO BRING YOU A STORY THAT SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO BROKE THIS WEEK.

JOURNALIST JOSHUA BOWLING REPORTS THE SURVIVOR OF A 2023 SHOOTING AT A PROTEST IN RIO ARRIBA AND ANOTHER DEMONSTRATOR ARE NOW SUING OFFICIALS FOR ALLEGEDLY FAILING TO KEEP THEM SAFE.

BOWLING IS JOINED IN STUDIO BY PLAINTIFF JACOB JOHNS, WHO WAS SHOOT AND SEVERELY WOUNDED AT THE PROTEST OVER A STATUE OF SPANISH CONQUISTADOR JUAN DE ONATE.

BUT FIRST, DEMOCRATIC U.S.

SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH JOINS US FROM D.C. TO TALK ABOUT THE CUTS TO AMERICORPS AND WHAT HE AND THE STATE ARE DOING ABOUT IT.

SENATOR HEINRICH, THANKS FOR MAKING THE TIME.

>> Heinrich: ABSOLUTELY.

GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Nash: I IMAGINE MOST OF OUR VIEWERS HAVE HEARD OF AMERICORPS, BUT THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW THE BREADTH OF WHAT THIS AGENCY DOES.

WHERE DOES IT SHOW UP, NOT ONLY IN NEW MEXICO, BUT IN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE NATION?

>> Heinrich: WELL, BROADLY, THINK OF IT AS KIND OF LIKE -- MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH PEACE CORPS.

THINK OF A DOMESTIC PROGRAM TO SUPPORT ALL KINDS OF ACTIVITIES AND IN PARTICULAR, I MEAN, REALLY AMERICORPS HAS ITS BIGGEST FOOTPRINT IN RURAL COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO, I DID NATURAL RESOURCES WORK AS AN AMERICORPS MEMBER BACK IN THE 1990s.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT GROUPS LIKE ROCKY MOUNTAIN YOUTH CORPS DO A LOT OF AMERICORPS PROGRAMS.

WE HAVE TRIBAL SCHOOLS AND TRIBAL PROGRAMS THAT DO NATURAL RESOURCES WORK.

VETERANS SERVICES, SENIOR SERVICES, IT REALLY IS A BROAD SORT OF SERVICE VOLUNTEER PROGRAM THAT IS UTILIZED USUALLY BY PEOPLE EITHER IN EARLY IN THEIR CAREER OR IN THEIR RETIREMENT.

DISASTER RELIEF IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF AMERICORPS PROGRAMS THE HAVE WORKED ON DISASTER RELIEF OVER THE YEARS.

AND THEY'RE ABLE TO DO THAT ON A SERVICE BASIS FOR A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF FEDERAL FUNDING.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU THINK ABOUT HIRING SOMEONE TO WORK AT FEMA OR TO WORK AT ONE OF THE PUBLIC LAND AGENCIES, RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 50,000-PLUS DOLLARS PLUS BENEFITS.

WHEREAS, THIS IS JUST A STIPEND AND SOME EDUCATIONAL AWARDS.

BUT THE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATE IN AMERICORPS TEND TO GO ON AND DO A LOT OF OTHER BIG THINGS OVER THE COURSE OF THEIR CAREER.

>> Nash: LIKE, MAYBE BEING A U.S.

SENATOR?

>> Heinrich: FOR EXAMPLE.

>> Nash: YOU MENTIONED YOU'RE AN ALUM.

I WANT TO GET TO WHAT YOU TOOK FROM THE PROGRAM.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>> Heinrich: I THINK THE THING THAT REALLY SURPRISED ME WAS JUST HOW REWARDING SERVICE WAS.

BEING PART OF SOMETHING THAT'S BIGGER THAN YOU YOURSELF, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, I FOUND VERY REWARDING.

AND I THINK THAT'S ENDEMIC ACROSS THE AMERICORPS PERHAPS.

>> Nash: MM-HMM.

WOULD THE IDEA OF WHAT AMERICORPS IS-- I DO WANT TO SHIFT A LITTLE BIT AND TALK ABOUT WHERE THE PROGRAM IS TODAY, WHICH IS BASICALLY GUTTED, YES?

>> Heinrich: IT'S IN SHAMBLES.

SO MANY PEOPLE WERE LET GO, FIRED UNCEREMONIOUSLY, PROBABLY, ILLEGALLY BECAUSE THIS ADMINISTRATION IS VIOLATING A NUMBER OF STATUTES, INCLUDING THE INPOUNDMENT CONTROL ACT.

BECAUSE THESE WERE AMERICORPS STAFF WHO CONGRESS HAD FUNDED AND THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT HAD SIGNED THOSE FUNDING BILLS.

SO, FIRING THEM WITHOUT CAUSE IS NOT A LEGAL ACTION, BUT THAT'S PRECISELY WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE.

>> Nash: IN TERMS OF SOME OF THESE NUMBERS, JENNIFER BASTRESS TAHMASEBI, THE INTERIM HEAD OF AMERICORPS AT THE MOMENT, SAID LAST MONTH SHE PUT 85% OF THE WORKFORCE ON LEAVE.

THE NEW YORK TIMES SAYS THE AGENCY LISTED IN THE TOP THREE OF ITS FEDERAL LAYOFFS TRACKER AT 93% OF THE AGENCY.

DO WE HAVE A SENSE OF THE SCOPE?

>> Heinrich: THOSE NUMBERS SOUND ACCURATE TO ME, BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN.

AND THAT TRANSLATES TO ALMOST 100 PEOPLE, RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE, IN NEW MEXICO.

AND THEN, ANOTHER 100 OVER THE COURSE OF THE SUMMER THAT HAD PLANNED ON DOING AMERICORPS SERVICE PROJECTS IN THE SUMMER THAT NOW ARE MAKING OTHER PLANS.

>> Nash: SO, THEY HAD TO JUST GET OUT OF THE SITES THAT THEY WERE STATIONED AT?

WHAT DID THAT LOOK LIKE?

>> Heinrich: YEAH.

PRECISELY.

>> Nash: I'M WONDERING TO WHAT DEGREE THE AMERICORPS CUTS THAT WE'RE SEEING, AND FOR REFERENCE, ON FUNDING-- WE TALKED ABOUT STAFFING.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS TERMINATED NEARLY $400 MILLION IN THESE FEDERAL GRANTS NATIONWIDE, INCLUDING NEARLY $2 MILLION JUST HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WITH SIX PROGRAMS AND ONE PLANNING GRANT.

TO WHAT DEGREE ARE THESE KINDS OF CUTS WARRANTED, CONSIDERING THE AGENCY HAS FAILED AUDITS EIGHT YEARS IN A ROW NOW?

AND ACCORDING TO THE INDEPENDENT AUDITOR THAT CONDUCTED THOSE, HAS 11 MATERIAL WEAKNESSES, WHICH INCLUDE FINANCIAL REPORTING AND GRANT PROCESSES AND TWO SIGNIFICANT DEFICIENCIES.

>> Heinrich: SO, THERE ARE REAL AUDIT ISSUES WITH AMERICORPS.

AND SOME OF THAT IS ENDEMIC IN REALLY WORKING WITH SMALL VOLUNTEER-BASED ORGANIZATIONS.

MOST OF THOSE FINDINGS ARE NOT THE KIND OF FINDINGS YOU THINK OF THAT WOULD EQUATE TO CORRUPTION.

THEY'RE FINDINGS WHERE THE REPORTING WAS SIMPLY NOT ADEQUATE OR-- SO, I'M NOT GOING TO MINIMIZE THOSE.

WE SHOULD DO A BETTER JOB OF MAKING SURE THAT IS A VERY SEAMLESS REPORTING SYSTEM.

BUT WHEN YOU STACK THOSE FINDINGS UP AGAINST THE INCREDIBLE SERVICES THAT AMERICORPS HAS DONE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ALIKE HAVE SEEN THIS AGENCY WORK IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITIES ON THINGS THAT THEY REALLY CARE ABOUT.

THERE'S A REASON WHY AMERICORPS CONTINUED TO GET FUNDED UNDER THE APPROPRIATIONS PROCESS, AND IT IS THE VALUE OF THOSE PROGRAMS.

SO, SHOULD WE WORK ON THEIR REPORTING DEFICIENCIES?

100%.

ABSOLUTELY.

SHOULD YOU FIRE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG FOR NO REASON?

THAT'S THE KIND OF CHAOS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THIS ADMINISTRATION INVOKE ACROSS THE BOARD, EVERYWHERE FROM THE VETERAN'S ADMINISTRATION TO THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, TO AMERICORPS.

AND THAT'S A DIFFERENCE FROM THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

I THINK WHAT I'VE SEEN DIFFERENT IN THIS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS THERE ARE NOW SO MANY VERY EXTREME DEMAGOGUES IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO BELIEVE THAT EVEN WHEN GOVERNMENT IS DOING SOMETHING LIKE VETERAN'S HEALTH CARE THAT IT IS INHERENTLY BAD.

>> Nash: DOGE'S EFFORTS TO CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING IS BEING DONE, AT LEAST IN THE NAME OF ELIMINATING FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE.

ARE YOU SAYING YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANY FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE IN AMERICORPS?

>> Heinrich: NO, I'M SAYING THAT THERE HAS BEEN WASTE AND THAT WE COULD DO BETTER.

HOWEVER, THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY COMPLETELY GETTING RID OF THE ORGANIZATION.

AND IF YOU STACK UP THE ORIGINAL DOGE WITH THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, AND FOR EVERY DOLLAR WE PUT IN THE GAO, WE GET OVER $100 BACK IN SAVINGS.

THAT A VERY EFFICIENT WAY TO SAVE MONEY.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH DOGE IS THEY PUT A BUNCH OF NUMBERERS UP ON THEIR WEBSITE ABOUT SAVINGS.

AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE JUST FALSE.

MAY HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY INEFFICIENT AT THEIR ABILITY TO ACTUALLY PRODUCE SAVINGS.

I THINK THEIR POINT IS, REALLY, TO CREATE CHAOS IN THE GOVERNMENT.

>> Nash: A NUMBER OF NEWS OUTLETS HAVE GONE THROUGH THOSE NUMBERS ON THE DOGE WEBSITE AND HAVE FOUND THEM RIDDLED WITH MISTAKES.

WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAKES ME THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY, TARGETING GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S NEW, NOR IS IT ONLY A REPUBLICAN MISSION.

PRESIDENTS OBAMA AND CLINTON TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF DOING THIS KIND OF WORK.

SO, DOES YOUR PARTY STILL SEE STREAMLINING GOVERNMENT SPENDING, STREAMLINING THE GOVERNMENT, AS A WORTHWHILE CAUSE IF IT'S NOT DONE IN THE WAY THAT WE'RE SEEING IT BEING DONE TODAY?

>> Heinrich: ABSOLUTELY.

AND WE SHOULD INCORPORATE THAT AND WE HAVE IN EVERY APPROPRIATIONS PROCESS.

SO, HAVING ADEQUATE OVERSIGHT, HAVING REPORTING THAT JUST MAKES SENSE THAT CATCHES-- THAT CREATES ENOUGH TRANSPARENCY IN THE SYSTEM TO SEE WHERE INEFFICIENCY IS.

THOSE ARE ALL WORTHWHILE EFFORTS.

THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE KIND OF RECKLESSNESS THAT WE SEE IN THE CURRENT MOMENT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M REALLY PROUD OF IS THAT ON THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE, THERE ARE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO STILL GET ALONG AND STILL WORK TO CREATE THAT KIND OF TRANSPARENCY AND OVERSIGHT.

>> Nash: SENATOR HEINRICH, HOW ARE YOU WORKING AND YOUR PARTY, BUT YOU SPECIFICALLY, HOW ARE YOU WORKING TO PUSH BACK AGAINST WHAT YOU'RE CALLING RECKLESSNESS?

>> Heinrich: WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE WORKING WITH FOLKS LIKE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF NEW MEXICO, WHO HAS ACTUALLY FILED SUIT ON THIS AMERICORPS ISSUE BECAUSE IT WAS NOT DONE LEGALLY.

THERE'S A WAY TO PURSUE EFFICIENCY AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DOWNSIZE CERTAIN WORKFORCE POPULATIONS.

THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THAT IS THROUGH THINGS LIKE ATTRITION AND THROUGH A TRANSPARENT PROCESS.

IT'S NOT TO SEND OUT AN EMAIL ON A THURSDAY AFTERNOON THAT SAYS EVEN THOUGH YOU HAD GLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR TEN YEARS, YOU'RE NO LONGER NEEDED.

YOU'RE FIRED.

AND YOU WEREN'T DOING YOUR JOB.

>> Nash: SO, THAT SUIT IS USING THAT THIRD BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, THE COURTS, TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THESE KINDS OF CUTS TO HOLD THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ACCOUNTABLE.

WHAT ABOUT THE CONGRESSIONAL BRANCH?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING AND YOUR COLLEAGUES DOING IN THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE TO PUSH BACK AGAINST DOGE?

>> Heinrich: ONE OF THE THINGS WE'LL BE DOING IS SEEKING TO CONTINUE FUNDING FOR THESE PROGRAMS, AND TO WORK HAND-AND-GLOVE TO PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE TO OUR ATTORNEYS GENERAL SO THEY CAN MAKE THE BEST CASE.

>> Nash: YOU POSTED A FEW VIDEOS ON SOCIAL MEDIA AS OF LATE, CALLING OUT SOME OF WHAT YOU CONSIDER TROUBLING AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

YOU MADE ONE ABOUT THE PARKS BUDGET, SOME OF THE TAX PACKAGE THAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE WORKING THROUGH.

IN MANY OF THEM, YOU ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CONTACT THEIR REPRESENTATIVE AND THAT'S ONE WAY THAT THEY CAN PLUG IN IF THEY, TOO, ARE CONCERNED.

FOR NEW MEXICANS WHO FOR THEM THAT'S YOU, AND SENATOR LUJAN AND ONE OF THE THREE DEMOCRATIC NEW MEXICAN CONGRESS PEOPLE, WHAT ARE THEY TO DO?

BECAUSE YOU ALL DON'T NEED ANY CONVINCING, I BELIEVE.

WHAT ARE THEY TO DO IF THEY'RE FEELING CONCERNED?

HOW DO THEY PLUG INTO THIS?

>> Heinrich: THERE ARE TWO THINGS I WOULD SUGGEST.

ONE IS SIMPLY IF YOU ARE CONCERNED, TELL YOUR STORY ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT'S STILL-- EVEN THOUGH THOSE ALGORITHMS AREN'T PERFECT, THEY'RE FAIRLY ORGANIC.

AND THOSE STORIES GET IN FRONT OF MY COLLEAGUES AND THEY DO CHANGE MINDS.

I WILL TELL YOU, MY COLLEAGUES ARE RADDLED RIGHT NOW BECAUSE SO MANY VETERANS, FOR EXAMPLE, SO MANY PEOPLE UPSET ABOUT MEDICAID ARE BEGINNING TO SPEAK OUT.

THEY'RE POPULATING THEIR TRIPS HOME.

WHEN THEY GO TO THE GROCERY STORE THEY HEAR ABOUT IT.

SO, TELL THOSE STORIES.

AND THEN GET ROOTED IN COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE SO MANY GOOD ORGANIZATIONS IN NEW MEXICO.

FIND A LIKE-MINDED COMMUNITY THAT YOU CAN BE A PART OF AND BE PART OF AN ALTERNATIVE REALITY THAT DOES GOOD THINGS IN OUR GREAT STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

>> Nash: U.S.

SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Heinrich: GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> Block: WHEN YOU SET UP A NEW OFFICE, IT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME GROWING PAINS.

WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH DOGE.

ELON MUSK EVEN SAID, HEY, LOOK WE'RE GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES.

WE'RE GOING TO IDENTIFY THEM AND FIX THEM AND MOVE ON.

THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE.

I DO THAT IN CORPORATE AMERICA.

WE MAKE MISTAKES.

WE FIX IT.

YOU DO A ROOT CAUSE ANALYSIS.

YOU FIX IT.

YOU MOVE ON.

>> Nash: SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DiVIZIO WILL SIT DOWN WITH REPUBLICAN SENATE SENATOR JAY BLOCK IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

BUT FIRST, WE WANT TO CONTINUE OUR LOOK AT THE DISMANTLING OF AMERICORPS.

LAST YEAR, MORE THAN 4500 MEMBERS WERE STATIONED FROM TAOS TO RUIDOSO AND CITIES AND PUEBLOS IN BETWEEN.

THEY SERVED YOUNG PEOPLE, VETERANS, SENIORS, PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES AND THOSE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS AND HUNGER.

LAST MONTH, THE AGENCY TERMINATED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR SIX OF THOSE PROGRAMS AND ONE IN THE WORKS, INCLUDING THE ALBUQUERQUE SIGN LANGUAGE ACADEMY.

ITS DIRECTOR, RAFE MARTINEZ, JOINS US NOW TO DISCUSS HOW THE ACADEMY WILL MOVE FORWARD.

ALSO AT THE TABLE IS ALVIN WARREN OF SANTA CLARA PUEBLO, WHO PRESIDENT BIDEN APPOINTED TO AMERICORPS'S BOARD OF DIRECTORS IN 2021, A POSITION HE HELD UNTIL JUST LAST YEAR.

WELCOME, BOTH OF YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

ALVIN, I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU.

WE KNOW THAT THE DOGE NUMBERS, THE CUTS, HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT SLIPPERY.

WE HEARD FROM SENATOR HEINRICH ABOUT THE FACT THAT NO MATTER HOW YOU SLICE IT, THE MAJORITY OF AMERICORPS STAFF HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS.

WHAT ARE WE SEEING IN NEW MEXICO, IN TERMS OF THOSE KINDS OF CUTS?

>> Warren: WELL, THANK YOU FIRST OFF, FOR HAVING ME AND HOSTING THIS CONVERSATION.

I WANT TO TAKE IT FROM TWO DIFFERENT ANGLES.

FIRST OFF, IN TERMS OF THE DIRECT CUTS HERE IN NEW MEXICO, THERE WERE SIX PROGRAMS THAT WERE DIRECTLY AFFECTED.

NEW MEXICO, JUST FOR CONTEXT, WAS STARTING THE YEAR WITH TEN PROGRAMS THEY WERE ANTICIPATING FOR FUNDING AND ONE PLANNING GRANT.

OF THOSE, SIX OF THE PROGRAMS WERE CUT AND THE ONE PLANNING GRANT.

SO, THIS IS ACROSS ALL THE SIX DIFFERENT AREAS, WHICH IS DISASTER SERVICES, EDUCATION, ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP, HEALTHY FUTURES, ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, AND SERVICE TO VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THOSE ACTUALLY LEVERAGE LOCAL DOLLARS.

THERE'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT MATCH REQUIREMENT, WHICH ALSO SIGNALS THE COMMUNITIES REALLY WANT THESE PROGRAMS.

SO, THE KINDS OF PROGRAMS THAT WERE CUT INCLUDE THE SANTA FE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB, THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB OF CENTRAL NEW MEXICO, THE DREAM TREE PROJECT UP IN TAOS.

NACA INSPIRED SCHOOLS NETWORK, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

I'M ONE OF THE FOUNDING BOARD MEMBERS OF THE KHA'P'O COMMUNITY SCHOOL, WHICH IS A TRIBALLY-CONTROLLED SCHOOL IN SANTA CLARA.

MY OLDER DAUGHTER KAYLEE WAS AN AMERICORPS VISTA BECAUSE OF THE NACA INSPIRED SCHOOLS NETWORK.

THAT'S ONE OF THE PROGRAMS THAT WAS CUT THAT PLACES-- HAS BEEN PLACES NATIVE YOUNG PEOPLE IN TRIBAL SCHOOLS AND NATIVE SCHOOLS, THROUGHOUT THE STATE, AS A PATHWAY INTO EDUCATION AND CAREERS.

>> Nash: I MEAN, THIS FUNDING, THESE STAFFING CUTS, ARE AFFECTING COMMUNITIES ALL ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

AND THE NATION.

YOU USED TO SERVE ON THE NATIONAL BOARD.

WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL TO BE WORKING WITH SUCH A SKELETON CREW?

>> Warren: WELL, I THINK THIS IS THE CHALLENGE.

SO, I TALKED TO KRISTIN HSUEH WHO IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SERVE NEW MEXICO COMMISSION.

YOU CANNOT OPERATE AN AGENCY AND A GRANT PROGRAM OF THIS SIZE WITH 85% OF THE STAFF CUT.

ALREADY, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS A LACK OF SERVICES.

SO, A LACK OF RESPONSIVENESS IN TERMS OF THE TIMELINESS OF PROCESSING APPLICATIONS, OF PROCESSING AMENDMENTS.

THE NEW MEXICO COMMISSION HAD A POINT PERSON THEY INTERACTED WITH WEEKLY.

THAT PERSON IS NOW GONE.

THIS DIRECTLY AFFECTS THEIR ABILITY TO DO THEIR JOBS AND TO DELIVER THE REMAINING FUNDS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN CUT.

>> Nash: ARE THOSE REMAINING FUNDS ABLE TO BE DELIVERED?

>> Warren: AT A CERTAIN POINT, THEY'RE GOING TO BE-- IT WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT THEIR ABILITY TO BE DELIVERED, YES.

>> Nash: RAFE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS ENDED, AS ALVIN SAID, SIX AMERICORPS PROGRAM GRANTS, INCLUDING THE GRANT THAT YOUR PROGRAM WAS RELYING ON.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO FIND OUT THAT YOUR FUNDING WOULD BE CUT THIS WAY?

>> Martinez: SURE.

FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON TO DISCUSS THIS.

YEAH-- LOOK, THE WAY THE CLIMATE NOW AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL IS SUCH WE WERE ALWAYS ON ALERT THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY THINGS SHIFT DAILY.

JUST WATCHING THE NEWS.

SO, WHEN THAT FRIDAY CAME, WHICH I THINK WAS THE 25th, WE GOT THE LETTER THAT THERE WAS A CUT AND TO IMMEDIATELY CEASE OPERATIONS DUE TO THOSE CUTS.

I CAN'T SAY THAT WE WERE PREPARED AND WE HAD PLAN TO WEATHER THE STORM OR TO WEATHER THE END OF THE PROGRAM, BUT IT WASN'T LIKE WE WERE TAKEN COMPLETELY BY SURPRISE.

WE WERE SUSPECTING SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHEN OR TO WHAT LEVEL.

>> Nash: OKAY.

SO, WHEN YOU FOUND OUT TO WHAT LEVEL, CAN YOU SHARE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW MUCH FUNDING YOU LOST AND WHAT THAT FUNDING WAS BEING SPENT ON?

>> Martinez: YEAH, WE WERE JUST SHY OF $400,000.

THAT WAS THE TOTAL OF WHAT THE GRANT WAS.

WE WERE USING ALLOCATIONS TO HELP BUILD OUT AN ADULT WORKFORCE FOR ADULTS WITH DISABILITIES WORKFORCE TRAINING PROGRAM.

IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE WORLD OF DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITY, IN THE K-12 SPACE THERE'S SOME STRONG SUPPORTS IN PLACE.

BUT ONCE ADULTS-- OR PEOPLE IN THAT SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION AGE OUT OF THE K-12 PROGRAM AT THE AGE OF 22, THERE'S JUST A CLIFF OF SERVICES THAT DON'T EXIST.

SO, WE WERE TRYING TO BUILD OUT THINGS THAT WOULD THEN SERVE THAT POPULATION GOING INTO ADULTHOOD.

>> Nash: SOME SUPPORTS BEYOND K-12.

>> Martinez: YEAH.

>> Nash: AND FOR FOLKS WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH YOUR PROGRAM, IT'S A LONGSTANDING PROGRAM IN NEW MEXICO.

THIS IS WAS AN EXTENSION ON IT.

>> Martinez: CORRECT.

>> Nash: BUT YOU DON'T JUST SERVE DEAF AND HARD-OF-HEARING FOLKS?

>> Martinez: YEAH.

YEAH.

SO, WE'RE A CHARTER SCHOOL.

THE ALBUQUERQUE SIGN LANGUAGE ACADEMY IS THE CHARTER SCHOOL THAT SERVES IN THE K-12 SPACE.

AND WE SERVE DEAF, HARD-OF-HEARING, AND HEARING KIDS IN ONE VERY INCLUSIVE ENVIRONMENT.

SO, WE SERVE ALL LEVEL OF NEED, AROUND LANGUAGE, USING AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE TO BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN FAMILIES, EVEN FOR STUDENTS WHO DON'T HAVE HEARING LOSS BUT DON'T HAVE THEIR-- FOR WHATEVER REASONS-- >> Nash: THEY'RE NON-VERBAL.

>> Martinez: -- THEY'RE NON-VERBAL AND THEY NEED SIGN LANGUAGE AS A PRIMARY LANGUAGE.

>> Nash: ALVIN, I KNOW THAT RAFE'S PROGRAM IS IN THE ALBUQUERQUE METRO.

AS YOU MENTIONED, THESE CUTS HAVE HIT NEW MEXICO FAR AND WIDE.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE?

I KNOW YOU MENTIONED SOME OF THE PROGRAMS.

WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITIES WERE THEY SERVING?

>> Warren: SO, DREAMTREE SERVES IN THE TAOS AREA.

SANTA FE, BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB IN SANTA FE.

OBVIOUSLY, THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

I THINK PART OF WHAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE EMPHASIZED IS THE EXCUSE THAT WAS GIVEN IS THAT-- CAN YOU IMAGINE THE PROGRAMMING AND THE SERVICES THAT RAFE JUST DISCUSSED NO LONGER MEET THE AGENCY'S PRIORITIES?

THOSE ARE PRIORITIES THAT ARE SET BY BIPARTISAN GROUPS IN THE STATE, AND THEY REFLECT THE PRIORITIES THAT ARE IDENTIFIED IN THE FEDERAL LAW.

TO SORT OF UNILATERALLY DECIDE THAT CERTAIN PROGRAMS ARE NO LONGER ACCOMPLISHING THE AGENCY'S MISSIONS OR PRIORITIES WITHOUT ANY KIND OF EXCUSE, WITHOUT ANY KIND OF FINDING OF NONCOMPLIANCE, AND NOT HAVING ANY KIND OF LEAD TIME TO PREPARE IT'S INEXCUSABLE.

FOR THOSE CUTS IS EGREGIOUS.

>> Nash: IF WE PULL BACK EVEN MORE TO THE FEDERAL LEVEL, SOME OF THE CUTS THAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT EVIDENT WHY CERTAIN CUTS ARE BEING MADE.

SOMETIMES THOSE CUTS ARE BEING MADE HASTILY AND THEN ARE ROLLED BACK.

THAT SAID, AMERICORPS HAS NOT HAD THE MOST GLOWING HISTORY AROUND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT.

THE ORGANIZATION, THE FEDERAL AGENCY, HAS FAILED EIGHT AUDITS IN A ROW.

YOU PREVIOUSLY, ALVIN, SERVED ON THE BOARD'S OVERSIGHT GOVERNANCE AND AUDIT COMMITTEE.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE FINDINGS OF THE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, OVER THE YEARS, AROUND SOME OF THESE AUDIT PIECES?

>> Warren: I WANT TO SORT OF ANCHOR THIS FIRST IN THE FACT THAT AMERICORPS IS ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS.

AND, ACTUALLY, EFFICIENCY AND THE STEWARDSHIP OF TAX DOLLARS.

THE RESEARCH HAS PROVEN THAT FOR EVERY FEDERAL DOLLAR THAT'S INVESTED THERE'S A $17 RETURN.

SO, THERE'S A VERY, VERY HIGH ROI THAT WOULD BE ENVIABLE IN ALMOST ANY OTHER AGENCY ACROSS THE GOVERNMENT.

BUT THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT IS THERE'S BEEN A CHRONIC UNDERINVESTMENT IN THE AGENCY'S OVERALL ADMINISTRATION.

AND, IN FACT, IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT IN THE PREVIOUS-- THE FIRST TRUMP TERM, HE ACTUALLY TRIED TO ZERO OUT THE AGENCY'S BUDGET FOUR YEARS IN A ROW.

CHRONIC UNDERINVESTMENT CONTRIBUTED TO OVERALL ISSUES AROUND FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE AUDITS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT.

WHEN I GOT APPOINTED TO THE BOARD, IT WAS A TOP PRIORITY FOR THE BOARD TO JOIN WITH THE NEW LEADERSHIP, MICHAEL SMITH WAS THE APPOINTED LEADER OF AMERICORPS, TO DIRECTLY ADDRESS THE ROOT CAUSES.

IF YOU HAVE YEARS AND YEARS OF UNDERINVESTMENT, THEN IT'S GOING TO TAKE YEARS TO FIX THEM.

I'M VERY PROUD TO SAY THAT WE WERE ON TRACK.

WE TOOK VERY DECISIVE ACTIONS, AND WE WERE ON TRACK TO HAVE A CLEAN AUDIT STARTING NEXT YEAR.

THESE CUTS ARE GOING TO DIRECTLY UNDERMINE.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE SAYING, WELL THERE'S ISSUES IN THE AGENCY, I'LL SAY MANY AGENCIES HAVE ISSUES WITH ADMINISTRATIONS.

AUDITS ARE DESIGNED TO HELP IDENTIFY WEAKNESSES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

THE AGENCY WAS ADDRESSING THOSE WEAKNESSES.

>> Nash: CAN YOU BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT SOME OF THOSE WEAKNESSES ARE FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO MAY BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THOSE LOOKED LIKE?

>> Warren: WELL, I'VE BEEN OFF THE BOARD SINCE LAST FALL.

I DON'T WANT TO REALLY GET INTO THE DETAILS.

I DON'T REALLY WANT TO SHARE THEM.

I DON'T KNOW THEM OFF THE TOP OF MY MIND.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST POINT OUT THEY'RE THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM YEARS OF UNDERINVESTMENT.

AND WE WERE ON TRACK TO ADDRESS ALL OF THEM.

>> Martinez: FROM A PRACTITIONER ON THE GROUND, THE RULES, THE PROCEDURES, EVERYTHING SET AT THE GROUND LEVEL ARE PRETTY TIGHT.

I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING TO SAY.

KUDOS TO THINGS COMING DOWNHILL, SO WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THINGS TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF GOVERNMENT MONEY.

AND WE'RE A NEW PROGRAM.

I THINK THAT IS HAPPENING.

SO, IT WAS OUR FIRST TASTE OF THE WHOLE AMERICORPS PROCESS, AND EVERYTHING THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT.

AND THERE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE MUCH WIGGLE ROOM FOR MALFEASANCE OR TO DO THINGS WILLY-NILLY.

IT WAS PRETTY TIGHTLY RUN.

SO, I WOULD AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

IF THAT'S OF ANY INDICATION THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE DOING AT THE GROUND WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO A CLEAN AUDIT, I THINK THAT'S TRUE.

>> Nash: THANKS FOR SHARING THAT PERSPECTIVE.

THERE IS PUSHBACK ON THESE CUTS AT THE CONGRESSIONAL LEVEL.

AT THE LEGAL LEVEL, NEW MEXICO HAS JOINED A MULTI-STATE LAWSUIT REGARDING THESE CUTS.

RAFE, IF THESE CUTS REMAIN, WHAT IS THE FUTURE?

WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD FOR YOUR PROGRAM AT THE ALBUQUERQUE SIGN LANGUAGE ACADEMY?

>> Martinez: IT DEFINITELY-- WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RETHINK THINGS.

IT WAS A GREAT RESOURCE TO BE ABLE TO ENGAGE THE PROGRAM, HISTORICALLY ESTABLISHED PROGRAM, SO WE COULD BUILD SOMETHING BRAND NEW WITH IT.

SO, WITHOUT THAT, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT DIFFERENT WAYS TO GO ABOUT IT.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP THE FIGHT IN CREATING WHAT WE THINK NEEDS TO BE CREATED AROUND SERVICE TO ADULTS WITH DISABILITIES.

HOWEVER, DOES PUT US BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

>> Nash: ARE THERE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES FOR FUNDING THAT YOU COULD SEEK?

>> Martinez: THERE COULD BE.

YEAH.

I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE WORKING WITH WHATEVER DOES EXIST TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT CREATIVE WAYS TO BUILD SOMETHING THAT WE THINK IS A RIGHT FOR A WHOLE LOT OF ADULTS THAT AREN'T GETTING IT RIGHT NOW.

HOWEVER, IF THE LAWSUITS AND EVERYTHING DO PRODUCE SOME TYPE OF REPRIEVE AND WE GET SOME SEMBLANCE OF AMERICORPS BACK, WE WANT TO BE POSITIONED-- THE SCHOOL WANTS TO BE POSITIONED IN A WAY WE CAN REENGAGE THE PROGRAM AND KEEP THE GOOD WORK GOING.

>> Nash: HOW CAN OUR VIEWERS, WHO FEEL SO INCLINED, HELP IN THE INTERIM IF THIS FUNDING EITHER IN THIS MOMENT WHEN WE AREN'T SEEING THE FUNDING FLOWING, OR IF IT DOESN'T RETURN?

WHAT ARE FOLKS TO DO WHO WANT TO SUPPORT VOLUNTEERISM IN NEW MEXICO?

>> Warren: AMERICORPS, BECAUSE OF GRANTEES LIKE RAFE'S ORGANIZATION, ARE ABLE TO DELIVER THESE CRITICAL SERVICES IN COMMUNITIES AT A SCALE THAT PHILANTHROPY CANNOT PROVIDE FOR.

STATE FUNDING CANNOT PROVIDE FOR.

THOSE ARE CRITICAL PARTNERS BUT-- >> Nash: AND INDIVIDUAL VOLUNTEERS.

>> Warren:-- AND INDIVIDUAL VOLUNTEERS ALSO.

IT'S NOT TO SAY -- INDIVIDUAL VOLUNTEERING IS ALWAYS VALUABLE.

BUT AT THE SCALE THAT YOU SEE, YOU CAN'T GET THERE.

THE OTHER PART IS THE EDUCATION AWARDS.

ANOTHER THING THAT FOLKS REALLY NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THE EDUCATION AWARDS.

MY DAUGHTER, I'LL USE HER AS AN EXAMPLE, COMPLETED HER ONE YEAR OF SERVICE AND GOT A SCHOLARSHIP THAT IS BIGGER THAN ANY OTHER SCHOLARSHIP SHE WAS ABLE TO RECEIVE FOR HER TO PURSUE AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE.

>> Nash: SO, WHEN MEMBERS SERVE IN AMERICORPS, THEY RECEIVE SCHOLARSHIPS?

>> Warren: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Nash: AND I APPRECIATE THE POINT THAT, REALLY, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS A SYSTEM COLLAPSING AND NETWORK COLLAPSING THAT INDIVIDUALS CAN'T NECESSARILY FILL IN THOSE GAPS.

>> Warren: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Nash: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ALVIN WARREN, RAFE MARTINEZ, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> Johns: IF I WOULD HAVE GONE TO A MAGA RALLY WHERE THERE WERE A BUNCH OF CHRISTIANS PRAYING, AND I TRIED TO BE AGGRESSIVE WITH HELP AND SHOT ONE OF THEM, WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN LAYING ON THE GROUND FOR TEN IMAGINES BEFORE THE SHERIFFS CAME?

WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN THE BARE MINIMUM OF LAW ENFORCEMENT THERE TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXERCISING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?

I THINK IT BOILS DOWN TO THAT.

IT'S LIKE, DO WE HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS UNDERNEATH THE CONSTITUTION OR DO WE NOT?

>> Nash: WE'LL HEAR FROM JACOB JOHNS, WHO WAS SHOT WHILE PROTESTING THE STATUE OF COLONIZER AND WAR CRIMINAL JUAN DE ONATE, IN JUST ABOUT 15 MINUTES.

BUT FIRST, WE WANT TO EXPAND THE CONVERSATION ABOUT EFFORTS TO SHRINK THE GOVERNMENT.

A NEW MEXICO REPUBLICAN IS LOOKING TO START A SIMILAR PROJECT AT THE STATE LEVEL.

THIS PAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, SENATOR JAY BLOCK FROM RIO RANCHO INTRODUCED A BILL TO CREATE WHAT HE IS CALLING THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY TO TAXPAYER OFFICE, OR GATO.

THE BILL DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE DURING THE SESSION, BUT HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH THE IDEA UNTIL IT GETS MORE TRACTION.

IN AN INTERVIEW WITH SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DiVIZIO, BLOCK SAYS UNLIKE DOGE, GATO WOULD NOT SHRINK THE GOVERNMENT WORKFORCE OR TARGET WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CALLS WOKE PROPAGANDA.

HERE'S LOU.

>> Lou: STATE SENATOR JAY BLOCK, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Block: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S PRETTY COOL TO BE HERE WITH NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

I APPRECIATE IT A LOT.

>> Lou: OF COURSE.

WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THE IMPACTS OF DOGE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

THIS PAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, YOU PROPOSED A SIMILAR OPERATION HERE IN OUR STATE.

IT'S CALLED THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY TO TAXPAYERS OFFICE, GATO.

WHERE DID THAT IDEA COME FROM?

AND WHY DO YOU THINK NEW MEXICO NEEDS IT?

>> Block: WELL, THE IDEA REALLY CAME FROM GOING BACK TO THE 1990s WITH BILL CLINTON AND AL GORE TALKING ABOUT REINVENTING GOVERNMENT.

THEY HAD A REAL BIG PUSH FOR MORE GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCIES AND SMALLER BUDGETS.

I THINK PRESIDENT CLINTON, A DEMOCRAT, WAS REALLY THE PIONEER OF ALL THIS, IN MY OPINION, GROWING UP IN THE '90s.

AND YOU SAW PRESIDENT OBAMA START TALKING ABOUT GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCIES AND CUTTING WASTE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND BEING IN THE AIR FORCE, I WOULD GET AUDITED AS A PROGRAM MANAGER ON WHETHER OR NOT I WAS SPENDING THE MONEY APPROPRIATELY ON VARIOUS PROGRAMS IN THE AIR FORCE.

AND THEN AS A COUNTY COMMISSIONER, I SET UP THE FIRST-EVER ETHICS COMMISSION IN SANDOVAL COUNTY.

AND WE GO THROUGH A LOT OF AUDITS AS WELL.

GOING TO DO THIS.

GOING TO DO THIS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I'VE BEEN WATCHING FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

AND I APPRECIATE THE GREAT WORK THAT HAS GONE INTO IT.

ALL THE WAY FROM THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION NOW TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THIS IS HAS BEEN A BIPARTISAN EFFORT.

EVERYBODY WANTS THEIR MONEY TO BE SPENT WISELY.

THEY WANT THE POLITICIANS TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF THEIR MONEY.

AND WHEN WE HAVE SEEN WHERE SOME OF OUR MONEY HAS GONE, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY UPSET.

ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR, ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR IS TRANSPARENCY.

I THINK PRESIDENT CLINTON AND PRESIDENT OBAMA DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF THAT DURING THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS AND IT'S BEING CARRIED FORWARD NOW BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

>> Lou: HAVE YOU HEARD SPECIFICALLY FROM TAXPAYERS WHO WANT MORE ACCOUNTABILITY IN STATE GOVERNMENT SPENDING?

>> Block: YEAH.

WHO DOESN'T?

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE GIVING ME OUR MONEY TO MANAGE, I THINK YOU WOULD WANT TO KNOW HOW I'M MANAGING YOUR MONEY.

IT'S JUST BASIC-- THIS IS A BASIC FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT.

AND WE HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO BE VERY TRANSPARENT.

WE HAVE PUT FORWARD VARIOUS DIFFERENT TRANSPARENCY AMENDMENTS AND BILLS UP IN SANTA FE AND THEY HAVE BEEN SHOT DOWN BY DEMOCRATS.

AND WE REALLY WANT TO-- WE DON'T LOOK AT THIS AS REPUBLICANS.

WE LOOK AT THIS AS NEW MEXICANS, TO BE MORE TRANSPARENT TO THE TAXPAYERS.

SO, THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN VERY FRUSTRATING UP IN SANTA FE AND THE ROUNDHOUSE DURING THE SESSION TO GET MORE TRANSPARENCY INTO THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE TAXPAYER.

>> Lou: OKAY.

NOW, WE'VE SEEN THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE SLASHED AS A RESULT OF DOGE.

YOU'VE SAID THAT THIS IDEA ISN'T ABOUT GETTING RID OF JOBS.

WHAT EXACTLY IS THIS OFFICE GOING TO BE FOCUSED ON?

>> Block: WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE BEING SLASHED, THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION SENT OUT AN EMAIL CALLED THE FORK IN THE ROAD.

AND THEY'RE SENDING OUT ANOTHER ONE.

WE'VE HAD-- I HAVE THE NUMBERS HERE.

IT'S ABOUT 250,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES.

ABOUT 8% OF THE WORKFORCE HAS EITHER TAKEN THE EARLY OUT WHERE THEY'RE GETTING PAID ALL THE WAY UNTIL 30th OF SEPTEMBER, THE FISCAL YEAR, TO GO LEAVE FEDERAL SERVICE.

OR THERE'S BEEN REDUCTION OF FORCES.

FOR MINE, IT'S NOT ABOUT TARGETING JOBS AT ALL.

THIS IS ABOUT TARGETING GOVERNMENT INEFFICIENCIES, FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE, AND THAT'S IT.

AND TRANSPARENCY.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WHAT'S THE CRITERIA OF THAT?

WHAT'S THE PROCESS OF FINDING WHAT GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS ARE NOT FUNCTIONING EFFICIENTLY, AND HOW DO YOU ATTACK THOSE?

>> Block: YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE I'VE TALKED TO THE STATE AUDITOR ABOUT THIS.

AND WHEN MY BILL DIDN'T MAKE IT OUT OF COMMITTEE, THE STATE AUDITOR WAS THERE.

AUDITOR MAESTAS.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING THIS BILL BACK.

SO, THE BILL DOESN'T HAVE SOME OF THOSE DETAILS, BUT WHAT THE BILL TALKS ABOUT IS SETTING UP THIS OFFICE OF FIVE TO SEVEN SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS FROM SOFTWARE ENGINEERS, PROCUREMENT EXPERTS, FINANCE EXPERTS, BUDGET EXPERTS, AND USING EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, AI FOR EXAMPLE, ACROSS THE SPECTRUM OF STATE GOVERNMENT TO LOOK FOR AND TO-- BASICALLY, YOU'RE DOING CONTINUOUS AUDITS TO MAKE SURE THE MONEY IS GOING WHERE IT'S GOING.

TO MAKE SURE THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT APPROPRIATELY.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, AS YOU KNOW, THAT ARE JUST SITTING OUT IS THERE THAT HASN'T BEEN SPENT THAT'S BEEN APPROPRIATED.

WE COULD LOOK AT THAT.

YOU SAW HERE IN NEW MEXICO DURING COVID, WE HAD OVER $250 MILLION OF STATE MONEY THAT WAS PAID TO NEW MEXICANS IN OVERPAYMENTS.

WE COULD HAVE STOPPED THAT.

THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY HERE.

SO, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT IT IS IS HOLDING THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE AND MAKING SURE THE GOVERNMENT IS TRANSPARENT.

>> Lou: OKAY.

YOU MENTIONED THE STATE AUDITOR.

A LOT OF THESE DUTIES AND THINGS YOU BRING UP AND HAVE BROUGHT UP IN PAST INTERVIEWS FALL UNDER THE STATE AUDITOR'S PURVIEW.

HOW WOULD THIS BE DIFFERENT?

>> Block: IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE THIS IS A CONTINUOUS PROCESS.

THE STATE AUDITOR DOES INVESTIGATIONS.

THIS IS AN OFFICE SET UP, AND IF WE WANT TO SET IT UP IN THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE, I'M OPEN TO THAT.

I'M OPEN TO ANYTHING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE BEING GOOD STEWARDS OF THE TAXPAYER MONEY HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

MAKING SURE WE'RE TRANSPARENT TO THE VOTERS AND TO NEW MEXICANS THE STATE AUDITOR IS VERY INTERESTED IN THAT.

HE'S WILLING TO WORK WITH ME AND SET IT UP IN HIS OFFICE, AND MAYBE IT'S NOT CALLED GATO.

HE'S TALKED ABOUT A STATE INSPECTOR GENERAL OFFICE, LIKE OTHER STATES HAVE, AND I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO WORK WITH HIM ON THAT.

>> Lou: OKAY.

YOU ALSO BROUGHT UP AI.

LAST YEAR ON THE SHOW, WE HAD TWO AI EXPERTS WHO ALSO CHAMPIONED A BILL IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT WOULD HAVE REQUIRED TRANSPARENCY AROUND AI IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL ABOUT POTENTIAL BIASES IN DATA AND SHORTCOMINGS OF AI ENGINES, AT THIS POINT, THAT COULD INFLUENCE DATA NEGATIVELY?

>> Block: YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER WHAT AI IS.

AI IS USED FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF FUNCTIONS.

IT COULD BE USED FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR RACIAL RECOGNITION.

IT COULD BE USED SCANNING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOCUMENTS IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME.

WHERE YOU HAVE DATA ANALYSTS PULLING THAT DATA FROM AI.

SO, YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF DATA MINING.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH AI.

YOU'RE SCANNING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOCUMENTS AND TRANSACTIONS, SO TO SPEAK, IN GOVERNMENT.

AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT THOSE.

YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FLAGS.

AND THEN YOU-- IF A FLAG POPS UP, YOU LOOK AT THE FLAG AND ANALYZE IT AND SEE IF IT'S ABOVE BOARD, OR IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

>> Lou: SO, AI ON THE FRONT END, HUMAN OPERATORS ON THE BACK END MAKING SURE THAT EVERYTHING LINES UP CORRECTLY?

>> Block: YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE HUMAN TO ANALYZE THE DATA.

THE AI DOES A PHENOMENAL JOB OF DOING THE DATA MINING OF FLAG CERTAIN INFORMATION, WHERE IT WOULD TELL THE HUMAN GO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS POTENTIAL ISSUE.

WHAT ABOUT SPECIFIC AREAS IN STATE GOVERNMENT NOW THAT YOU SEE AS POTENTIAL AREAS OF WASTE AT THIS POINT?

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT JUMPS OUT TO YOU?

>> Block: WELL, I JUST TALKED ABOUT SOME.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT, LOU, IF WE DON'T LOOK AT IT, WE DON'T KNOW.

YOU HAVE KNOWN AND TALKED ABOUT CORRUPTION IN STATE GOVERNMENT WITH CONTRACTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

EVERY NEW MEXICAN HAS THEIR STORIES ABOUT IT.

SO, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT IT.

I WOULD RATHER GO LOOK AT IT AND TELL THE PUBLIC, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOUR MONEY IS ACTUALLY BEING SPENT WISELY AND APPROPRIATELY VERSUS JUST TRUST US.

THAT'S NOT WORKING FOR US.

>> Lou: TALKING ABOUT OVERSIGHT IN THE EXECUTIVE LEVEL, WE'VE SEEN DIFFERENT EXECUTIVE AGENCIES HAVE PROBLEMS WITH OVERSIGHT.

THE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT, JUST THIS PAST TWO WEEKS, A JUDGE SAID THEY'RE OUT OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE YAZZIE/MARTINEZ DECISION.

CYFD, CONTINUED ISSUES THERE.

ARE YOU AT ALL CONCERNED ABOUT IF THIS OFFICE DOESN'T FUNCTION THE WAY THAT YOU IMAGINED OR OTHERS HOPE IT WOULD, BEING ABLE TO GET IN THERE AND CHANGE IT APPROPRIATELY?

>> Block: YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SET UP A NEW OFFICE, IT'S GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME GROWING PAINS.

I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH DOGE.

ELON MUSK EVEN SAID, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO MAKE MISTAKES.

WE'RE GOING TO IDENTIFY THEM.

WE'RE GOING TO FIX THEM AND MOVE ON.

THAT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE.

I DO THAT IN CORPORATE AMERICA.

WE MAKE MISTAKES.

WE FIX IT.

YOU DO A ROOT CAUSE ANALYSIS.

YOU FIX IT AND MOVE ON.

IT'S THE SAME THING.

SAME CONCEPT.

>> Lou: FEDERALLY, DOGE HAS EXPLICITLY TARGETED ENTITLEMENT PROGRAMS AND WHAT IT CALLS WOKE PROPAGANDA.

ARE THOSE A CONCERN FOR YOU?

AND WOULD THEY BE SPECIFIC TARGETS OF THIS OFFICE?

>> Block: NO.

BUT THEY'RE A CONCERN FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO BECAUSE IF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS, THERE COULD BE SOME FEDERAL CUTS.

SO, I WOULD HOPE THE GOVERNOR, ALL GOVERNORS, WOULD COMPLY.

BECAUSE NEW MEXICO IS ONE OF THE MOST DEPENDENT STATES ON GOVERNMENT MONEY, WHICH HASN'T REALLY WORKED OUT FOR US TOO WELL.

WE HAVE THE HIGHEST POVERTY RATE, HIGHEST CRIME RATE, WORST SCHOOLS.

THIS IS A GOVERNMENT-DEPENDENT STATE.

IT'S LIKE A NANNY STATE HERE.

SO MY ANSWER TO YOU IS, ME PERSONALLY, I'M NOT GOING AFTER THAT BECAUSE WHATEVER THE LEGISLATURE APPROPRIATES AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNS, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT'S BEING DONE.

WHETHER I AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH IT, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT'S BEING SPENT APPROPRIATELY IN ACCORDANCE WITH LAW.

>> Lou: OKAY.

WHAT IS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THE JOB THAT DOGE HAS DONE FEDERALLY TO THIS POINT?

>> Block: WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK AT OVER $170 BILLION IN SAVINGS OF FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE, I THINK THAT'S GREAT.

IT'S OVER A $1,000 FOR EVERY AMERICAN IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND WE SHOULD BE HOLDING THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABLE.

AGAIN, IT GOES BACK.

THIS IS A BIPARTISAN ISSUE THAT TWO DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS AND ONE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT HAVE TALKED ABOUT FOR OVER 30 YEARS.

I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEIR MONEY IS BEING SPENT.

LISTEN, LOU, WE'RE $36 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT.

$36 TRILLION IN DEBT.

WE CAN'T JUST KEEP SPENDING MONEY AND WASTING MONEY.

THAT'S NOT HOW THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE WORKING.

>> Lou: NOW, YOU BRING UP THAT NUMBER.

THERE HAVE BEEN DISPUTES.

I DON'T HAVE A CORRECT FIGURE ON HOW MUCH MONEY THE DOGE HAS SAVED.

BUT THIS GOES BACK TO TRANSPARENCY.

ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH HOW TRANSPARENT DOGE HAS BEEN TO THIS POINT?

>> Block: IF YOU GO ON DOGE.GOV, YOU CAN LOOK AT EVERYTHING.

I WAS ON THERE THIS MORNING.

YOU CAN LOOK AT EVERYTHING.

IN FACT, GO TO WHITEHOUSE.GOV AS WELL.

IT IS ALL TRANSPARENT FOR YOU.

THEY SHOW YOU THE CONTRACTS THAT WERE CANCELED, WHAT THE CONTRACTS WERE FOR.

THEY SHOW YOU WHERE MONEY WAS SPENT LIKE USAID.

SOME OF THE RIDICULOUS THINGS WE WERE SPENDING MONEY ON.

TAXPAYER MONEY THAT COULD HAVE BEEN HELPING VETERANS HERE.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN HELPING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE HERE IN THIS COUNTRY.

BUT IT WAS WASTED WITH SOME REALLY STUPID THINGS.

AND THAT HAS TO STOP.

WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON OUR COUNTRY AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> Lou: OKAY.

NOW, VIEWERS IN THIS EPISODE ARE GOING TO HEAR QUITE A BIT ABOUT AMERICORPS.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT THE PROGRAM, AREN'T IN FAVOR OF THE CUTS.

SENATOR HEINRICH IS AMONG THOSE VOICES.

THE PROGRAM HAS HAD ITS SHARE OF PROBLEMS WHEN IT COMES TO OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

DO YOU THINK THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S APPROACH TO AMERICORPS HAS BEEN THE RIGHT ONE SO FAR?

>> Block: I REALLY CAN'T SPEAK TO IT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT THEIR APPROACH IS.

BUT, AGAIN, I THINK EVERY GOVERNMENT THERE SHOULD BE AN INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW AND WITH CONGRESSIONAL SPENDING AND CONGRESSIONAL APPROPRIATIONS.

>> Lou: OKAY.

NOW, YOUR IDEA FOR GATO DIDN'T GO ANYWHERE IN THIS YEAR'S SESSION.

PROBABLY WON'T HAPPEN NEXT YEAR EITHER IN THE 30-DAY.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE DONE IN THE MEANTIME?

>> Block: WELL, WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IS THE CONTINUATION OF THE COORDINATION BETWEEN THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE AND MYSELF, AND HOPEFULLY OTHER LAWMAKERS THAT WILL SIGN ON TO THIS TO GET THIS THROUGH BECAUSE THIS SHOULDN'T REALLY BE A PARTISAN ISSUE.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY DEMOCRATS WANT TO BLOCK THE TRANSPARENCY OF HOW MONEY IS SPENT.

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO POINT THE FINGER IF ANYTHING IS BEING WASTED OR IF THERE'S FRAUD.

WE JUST WANT TO IDENTIFY IT AND FIX IT AND MOVE ON.

>> Lou: DO YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN RALLY ENOUGH LEGISLATIVE SUPPORT BY 2027?

>> Block: I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO UP THERE IN THE LAST SESSION IS WE'VE TRIED TO HELP TAXPAYERS OUT BY ELIMINATING THE STATE INCOME TAX.

THE DEMOCRATS SHOT IT DOWN.

WE TRIED TOUGHER CRIME BILLS.

THE DEMOCRATS SHOT IT DOWN.

WE TRIED AN OIL AND GAS REBATE BILL THAT, JUST LIKE ALASKA HAS, IT GIVES THE RESIDENTS OF THE STATE A TAX REBATE OR A CHECK.

THE DEMOCRATS SHOT THAT DOWN.

WE'VE TRIED SO MANY COMMON SENSE BILLS.

THE DEMOCRATS HAVE SHOT THEM DOWN.

I DON'T KNOW.

I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE VISION OF WHERE NEW MEXICANS ARE AND WHY THEY'RE HURTING, ESPECIALLY LOWER AND MIDDLE CLASS NEW MEXICANS.

BECAUSE WE'VE PROVIDED A LOT OF SOLUTIONS AND THE DEMOCRATS REFUSE TO EVEN GIVE US A HEARING OR GET THOSE BILLS OUT OF COMMITTEE AND ON THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.

AND THAT'S A HUGE FAILURE FOR THE PEOPLE OF NEW MEXICO.

>> Lou: STATE SENATOR JAY BLOCK, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Block: THANK YOU, LOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Nash: THANKS TO LOU AND TO NEW MEXICO STATE SENATOR JAY BLOCK FOR THAT CONVERSATION.

YOU HAVE HEARD A LOT ABOUT WHERE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS DISAGREE OF WHETHER GOVERNMENT DOES TOO MUCH IN THIS WEEK'S EPISODE.

NOW, WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A STORY IN WHICH GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS ARE ACCUSED OF NOT DOING ENOUGH.

IDEA IMAGINE MANY OF YOU HAVE SEEN WHAT JUST POPPED UP ON YOUR SCREENS BEFORE.

IT'S A STAGGERING IMAGE CAPTURED BY LONGTIME ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL PHOTOGRAPHER, EDDY MOORE, ON SEPTEMBER 28, 2023.

IT SHOWS, THEN 23-YEAR-OLD, RYAN MARTINEZ SIGHTING DOWN THE BARREL OF A HANDGUN.

WHAT YOU DON'T SEE IS WHAT'S BEHIND AND ALONGSIDE MOORE'S LENS.

A GROUP OF MOSTLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE CELEBRATING RIO ARRIBA COUNTY OFFICIAL'S DECISION TO DELAY INSTALLATION OF A STATUE DEPICTING SPANISH CONQUISTADOR AND WAR CRIMINAL JUAN DE ONATE ON HORSEBACK.

AMONG THOSE CELEBRATING WAS JACOB JOHNS, AN INDIGENOUS ACTIVIST BASED IN SPOKANE, WASHINGTON WHO IN THE CHAOS TOOK A BULLET TO THE STOMACH FROM MARTINEZ'S GUN AS HE TRIES TO STOP HIM FROM RUSHING INTO THE CROWD.

MARTINEZ IS SERVING A FOUR-YEAR PRISON SENTENCE AFTER PLEADING NO CONTEST TO AGGRAVATED BATTERY AND AGGRAVATED ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON.

NOW, SEVERAL SURGERIES AND EXTENDED HOSPITAL STAYS LATER, JOHNS IS ONE OF TWO PEOPLE SUING RIO ARRIBA COUNTY'S COMMISSION, COUNTY MANAGER, AND SHERIFF'S OFFICE, FOR ALLEGEDLY FAILING TO PROTECT DEMONSTRATORS THAT DAY.

SEARCHLIGHT NEW MEXICO JOURNALIST JOSHUA BOWLING WAS THE FIRST TO REPORT ON THE LAWSUIT THIS WEEK.

HE SAT DOWN WITH JOHNS IN OUR STUDIO TO DISCUSS THE CASE AND WHY JOHNS BELIEVES COUNTY OFFICIALS VIOLATED HIS CIVIL RIGHTS THAT DAY.

>> Joshua: JACOB JOHNS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

I WANT TO GET RIGHT INTO IT.

TELL ME ABOUT YOUR DECISION TO FILE THIS LAWSUIT.

>> Johns: WELL, WE'VE BEEN STRUGGLING TO DEAL WITH LIFE.

I MEAN, I THINK THE STUFF THAT WE'VE HAD TO ENDURE HAS BEEN SO TRAUMATIZING AND NOT JUST FOR PEOPLE WHO WITNESSED IT OR THE THINGS WE'VE GONE THROUGH, BUT OUR FAMILY MEMBERS AND OUR EXTENDED FAMILY MEMBERS.

IT'S BEEN THIS ONSLAUGHT OF TRAUMA.

IT'S NONSTOP GOING ON.

AFTER THE CRIMINAL CASE HAS BEEN SETTLED AND EVERYTHING, WE STILL ARE LEFT WITH WANTING JUSTICE.

AND TRYING TO FIND WHAT JUSTICE MEANS IN THIS WORLD IS REALLY IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY NOW IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE LAYERS OF CORRUPTION THAT WERE TAKING PLACE THAT LED UP TO THE INCIDENT, IT NEEDS TO BE EXPOSED.

AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC NEEDS TO KNOW THAT THESE THINGS ARE TAKING PLACE IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.

WE NEED TO LET PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THESE THINGS CONTINUE TO HAPPEN, AND THEY'RE AN EXTENSION OF SETTLER COLONIALISM THAT CONTINUE TO PERPETUATE GENOCIDE TO THIS DAY.

AND WE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR EACH OTHER.

THERE'S THIS IDEA THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT US TO RETURN BACK TO A TIME THAT NO LONGER EXISTS.

AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS TO NOT RIGHT THE WRONGS OF OUR PAST, BUT TO COME TO TERMS WITH THEM.

AND CELEBRATE THE GOOD THINGS VERSUS THE AWFUL, HORRIBLE PAST THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO CELEBRATE.

AND WHEN WE SEARCH FOR JUSTICE IN THIS WORLD, WE LIVE IN A MONETARILY-DOMINATED SOCIETY.

THIS IS HOW WE GET JUSTICE IN THIS WORLD.

SO, FILING THIS LAWSUIT WAS A GREAT STEP FOR US TO FIND JUSTICE AND TO FIND SOME HEALING, NOT JUST PERSONALLY BUT WITH THE COMMUNITY ITSELF.

>> Joshua: SURE.

I WANT TO DRILL DOWN A LITTLE BIT ON THE DAYS AND THE HOURS THAT LED UP TO MARTINEZ'S SHOOTING.

WE KNOW NOW LARGELY BECAUSE OF YOUR LAWSUIT THAT COUNTY OFFICIALS WERE GIVEN A HEADS UP THAT THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR VIOLENCE THAT DAY.

TWO DAYS BEFORE THE SHOOTING, THEN SHERIFF BILLY MERRIFIELD WROTE AN EMAIL TO COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT SAID IN PART, QUOTE, NONE OF US HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL.

BUT WITH THE ALLEGED INFORMATION THAT IS OUT THERE, SOCIAL MEDIA, ET CETERA, IN ADDITION TO THE ALREADY KNOWN PROTESTERS THAT PLAN ON SPOILING SUCH RELOCATION AND THE EVENT AS A WHOLE, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO STOP AND PREVENT THIS EVENT FROM BOILING OVER WITH THE UNKNOWN, END QUOTE.

SO, FROM WHERE YOU'RE STANDING, WHAT DOES IT SEEM LIKE THE COUNTY CHOSE TO DO WITH THAT WARNING?

>> Johns: THEY CHOSE TO DO THE BARE MINIMUM.

THEY SENT A COUPLE OF SHERIFFS THERE.

PEOPLE JUST STAND BY.

YOU KNOW, DESPITE THEIR PREVIOUS KNOWLEDGE, AFTER I WAS SHOT I WAS IN THEIR PARKING LOT.

AND I LAID ON THE GROUND BLEEDING OUT FOR TEN MINUTES BEFORE THE SHERIFFS INTERVENED.

I'M IN THEIR PARKING LOT.

IT STRIKES THE QUESTION OF IF I WOULD HAVE GONE TO A MAGA RALLY WHERE THERE WERE A BUNCH OF CHRISTIANS PRAYING AND I WOULD HAVE TRIED TO BE AGGRESSIVE WITH THEM AND SHOT ONE OF THEM, WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN LAYING ON THE STREET FOR-- LAYING ON THE GROUND FOR TEN MINUTES BEFORE THE SHERIFFS CAME?

WOULD THERE HAVE BEEN THE BARE MINIMUM OF LAW ENFORCEMENT THERE TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE EXERCISING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS?

I THINK IT BOILS DOWN TO THAT.

IT'S, LIKE, DO WE HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS UNDERNEATH THE CONSTITUTION OR DO WE NOT?

AND IN THIS DAY AND AGE WE HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHAT THIS COUNTRY IS BUILT ON.

IF WE ARE NOT AFFORDED THE EQUAL RIGHTS AS OTHER PEOPLE, THEN THAT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE.

AND WE NEED TO REALLY SHINE A LIGHT ON THIS DARKNESS THAT IS CAST UPON OUR ENTIRE COUNTRY.

>> Joshua: ON THAT MORNING, WHEN YOU WERE-- A CROWD HAD GATHERED IN ESPANOLA FOR A PRAYER CEREMONY AND PART CELEBRATION THAT THE COUNTY WAS POSTPONING THE INSTALLATION OF THIS STATUE.

ONATE, OF COURSE, IS INFAMOUS FOR HIS VIOLENCE AGAINST INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

DID YOU FEEL AT ALL THAT THERE WAS ANY SORT OF RISK OF VIOLENCE HAPPENING THAT DAY?

>> Johns: NO.

I WOULDN'T HAVE EVER THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE SHOWN UP.

I WAS ACTUALLY SHOCKED TO SEE COUNTER PROTESTERS.

WHAT ARE YOU HERE FOR?

YOU'RE HERE TO CELEBRATE GENOCIDE?

THIS IDEA THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WANT TO CELEBRATE THIS FABRICATED PAST THAT CELEBRATES ONE PERSON OVER ANOTHER OR ONE DEMOGRAPHIC OF PEOPLE OVER ANOTHER.

IT'S AN AWFUL TRAGEDY THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH ON A DAILY BASIS.

>> Joshua: DEALING WITH THE SPECIFICS OF YOUR LAWSUIT, I AS A REPORTER, HAVE COVERED THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

AND IT'S NOT VERY COMMON THAT YOU HEAR ABOUT A CIVIL RIGHTS ALLEGATION OVER THE ABSENCE OF POLICE, RIGHT?

WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY THAT DAY?

I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO THIS MOMENT AGO.

BUT I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE MORE.

>> Johns: IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE LETTER THAT WAS WRITTEN BY THE SHERIFF.

THERE WAS-- IT WASN'T JUST THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE.

IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

IT WAS CITY OFFICIALS.

IT WAS ALL OF THESE PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT.

IT WASN'T JUST ONE THING.

IT WAS VERY, VERY WIDELY KNOWN THAT THERE WAS POTENTIAL FOR VIOLENCE TO OVERSPILL.

I, YOU KNOW, WAS NOT EXPECTING TO SEE PEOPLE THERE IN OPPOSITION.

ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAD GONE THERE TO SPEND ALL NIGHT DOING A VIGIL.

WE WERE LITERALLY JUST PRAYING AND WAITING FOR THE MORNING TO COME UP SO WE COULD DO A CEREMONY.

WE COULD HOLD EACH OTHER STRONG AND REALLY SEND OUR PRAYERS INTO THE UNIVERSE.

ALL WE WERE TRYING TO DO IS TO SEND OUR PRAYERS TO CHANGE THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF THESE DECISION-MAKERS THAT WERE DOING THESE THINGS ILLEGALLY.

AND WITH WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE, AND YOU CAN SEE IN THE LAWSUIT, THE LAYERS UPON LAYERS OF CORRUPTION THAT LED UP TO THIS INCIDENT.

IT ALL COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF THOSE POLICE OFFICERS WOULD HAVE DONE THEIR DUTY AND BEEN THERE.

THEY HAD ASKED RYAN MARTINEZ SPECIFICALLY TO LEAVE BECAUSE HE WAS BEING AGGRESSIVE.

HE WAS DOING ALL THESE THINGS.

AND RYAN MARTINEZ HAD BEEN EMAILING AND TALKING TO PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT AND THEY ALLOWED HIM TO COME BACK.

AND WHEN THEY ALLOWED HIM TO COME BACK THEY LEFT.

AND THAT'S WHEN HE CHARGED THE CROWD.

IT WASN'T EVEN THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE THAT APPREHENDED HIM, EVEN THOUGH I WAS SHOT IN THEIR PARKING LOT.

IT WAS THE TRIBAL POLICE THAT GOT THEM.

IT TOOK TEN MINUTES FOR THOSE SHERIFFS TO COME OUT OF THEIR OFFICE.

>> Joshua: OBVIOUSLY, THE CRIMINAL TRIAL HAS PLAYED OUT.

AND MARTINEZ, PART OF HIS SENTENCE IS FOUR YEARS IN PRISON.

YOU WERE THERE.

YOU WATCHED THIS CLOSELY.

WERE YOU HAPPY WITH THE OUTCOME OF THIS TRIAL?

TO THAT END, WHAT DO YOU HOPE THIS LAWSUIT ULTIMATELY ACCOMPLISHES?

>> Johns: I MEAN, I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT WHAT TOOK PLACE.

BUT THE WAY THE LAW SITS IN NEW MEXICO IS THIS.

I HAD-- MY HANDS WERE BASICALLY TIED.

IT WAS EITHER ACCEPT THIS OR, YOU KNOW, RISK THE CHANCE OF THIS POTENTIAL MURDERER TO BE RELEASED.

HE WASN'T AN ORIGINAL PERSON.

HE'S COPY CATTING OTHER PEOPLE.

AND WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF IS THIS IS GOING TO EMBOLDEN MORE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY TO GO OUT AND COMMIT MORE VIOLENCE AGAINST INDIGENOUS PEOPLE.

IF WE LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH KYLE RITTENHOUSE, BEING CELEBRATED, WE DID NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN IN NEW MEXICO.

SO, THE FOUR YEARS, WE KNOW HE'S OFF THE STREETS.

WE KNOW OUR PEOPLE ARE SAFE.

WE KNOW A CRAZED MANIAC WHO WAS TRYING TO KILL PEOPLE IS LOCKED UP.

FOR THAT, I'M HAPPY.

AS FAR AS HAVING JUSTICE, I DON'T THINK THAT WAS SERVED.

I DO NOT THINK THAT JUSTICE WAS SERVED AT ALL.

>> Johns: AND YOU SEE THIS LAWSUIT AS A POTENTIAL AVENUE TOWARD ACHIEVING THAT?

>> Johns: YEAH.

ALL WE'RE SEARCHING FOR IS JUSTICE, SO THAT WE CAN PUT THIS TRAUMA AND ALL THIS VIOLENCE BEHIND US AND MOVE FORWARD.

ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS EVOLVE AND FIND HEALING IN THIS SPACE.

>> Joshua: I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW, TO YOUR POINT IN A PRETTY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, YOU HAD TO UNDERGO NOT JUST WITNESSING A CRIMINAL TRIAL BUT ALSO PHYSICAL RECOVERY, WHICH INCLUDED MONTHS IN HOSPITAL BEDS AND OPERATING TABLES.

I THINK AN EQUALLY CHALLENGING PSYCHOLOGICAL RECOVERY.

YOU'VE PUT TOGETHER A POWERFUL VIDEO DIARY THAT WE'VE EMBEDDED IN OUR STORY ONLINE AS WELL THAT DOCUMENTED YOUR HEALING JOURNEY IN THE MONTHS AFTER THIS.

CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT PROJECT?

>> Johns: YOU KNOW, I HAD A LOT OF TRAUMA THAT WAS BACKED UP WITH IT.

WHENEVER I RAN INTO PEOPLE ON THE STREETS, THEY WOULD ASK ME ABOUT IT.

I DIED AND I HAD TO FIGHT TO COME BACK.

SO, WHEN PEOPLE ONLY SEE YOU AS A GUN SHOOTING VICTIM, IT'S LIKE BEYOND MICRO- AGGRESSIONS.

SORRY.

I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.

CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

>> Joshua: YEAH.

I'M JUST WONDERING.

PUTTING TOGETHER THIS VIDEO DIARY OF YOUR HEALING JOURNEY, WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT TO YOU?

>> Johns: SO, I HAD ALL THIS FOOTAGE.

I HAD ALL THIS AWFUL THINGS.

AND I WANTED TO GET IT OUT OF MY BODY.

IT WAS DRIVING ME INSANE.

THE PHYSICAL STUFF IS ONE THING, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT AND YOU LOOK AT THE PHYSICAL STUFF, I HAD TO GET IT OUT.

I DIDN'T DO THIS FOR ANYBODY.

I DID IT FOR MYSELF.

I HAD TO GET THE PAIN OUT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I SHOWED IT TO PEOPLE, THEY WERE, LIKE THAT ONE PORTION WAS GRAPHIC WHEN I HAD TO PULL THE PACKING OUT.

THAT WAS A VERY, VERY SMALL AMOUNT -- A VERY, VERY SMALL TASTE OF WHAT I HAD TO ENDURE.

AND THE SURGERIES WERE ONE THING, BUT THE ONGOING DRAINS I HAD IN MY ABDOMEN WERE AWFUL.

I WOULD GET THEM CAUGHT ON THINGS.

THEY WOULD YANK.

I COULD FEEL THEM RUBBING AGAINST MY INTERNAL ORGANS AS I SLEPT.

EVERY TIME I COUGHED, IT WAS AWFUL.

I HAD TO GO THROUGH AIRPORT SECURITY WITH DRAINS.

WHAT IS THAT?

AND THIS IS IDEA OF TRYING TO HEAL IS SOMETHING ELSE.

MY BODY HAD MENDED.

I'M STILL MISSING ORGANS AND ALL THE THINGS, BUT MENTALLY I HAD TO LET SOMEBODY KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

I HAD TO GET IT OUT OF ME.

SO, I PUT TOGETHER PIECES OF SOME VIDEO THAT I HAD TAKEN PERIODICALLY THROUGHOUT THE HEALING PROCESS TO SHOW PEOPLE WHAT I HAD TO DO TO ENDURE.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT WAS FOR MY OWN SELF TO RELIEVE SOME OF THE TRAUMA.

I CAN'T REALLY BE DESCRIPTIVE ABOUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

I'M SO EXHAUSTED TALKING ABOUT BEING A VICTIM OF THIS FASCIST WHO TRIED TO KILL ME.

WHAT I WANTED TO DO WAS BE ABLE TO SAY, YES, THIS HAPPENED.

I ACKNOWLEDGED IT.

AND THIS IS HOW I'M GOING TO TRY TO PUSH PAST.

AND THE PHYSICAL STUFF HAS SUBSIDED FOR THE MOST PART.

I HAVE ONGOING STUFF.

BUT IT'S THE MENTAL STRAIN THAT HAS REALLY BEEN AFFECTING ME LATELY THAT HAS PUT A LOT OF WEIGHT ON LIFE.

AND THAT'S-- HOW DO WE FIND JUSTICE IN THAT?

HOW DO WE FIND JUSTICE IF THEY SAY MY LIFE IS ONLY WORTH FOUR YEARS?

>> Joshua: YEAH.

RIGHT.

I THINK I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK TO YOUR LAWSUIT, TO THAT POINT.

YOU FILED THIS UNDER THE NEW MEXICO CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, WHICH IS RELATIVELY YOUNG LAW.

IT WAS CRAFTED IN THE AFTERMATH OF GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER AND HAS ONLY BEEN ON THE BOOKS SINCE 2021.

WE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT TO GO ON IN TERMS OF KNOWING WHICH RIGHTS THIS LAW RECOGNIZES.

SO, I'M WONDERING WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO FILE THIS IN STATE COURT?

>> Johns: I THINK US FILING IN THE STATE WAS MAINLY ABOUT MAKING A STATEMENT TO THE COMMUNITY.

WE HAVE TO MAKE THIS LOCAL AND AMPLIFY THIS LOCAL.

HOW DO WE FIND HEALING LOCALLY IF WE TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE?

I THINK THAT WAS ULTIMATELY THE INITIAL THOUGHT BEHIND IT.

THIS IDEA OF QUALIFIED IMMUNITY IS STILL UP FOR DEBATE.

IT'S UP FOR DEBATE IN OTHER PLACES.

YOU KNOW, IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK THAT THE LEGISLATORS WHO ENACTED THIS HAVE HAD SOME FORESIGHT AND HAVE THE PUBLIC INTERESTS AT THEIR BEST-- THEIR BEST INTERESTS AT HAND.

AND THINKING ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT THIS MEANS AND HOW THIS WAS BROUGHT FORTH, I HOPE THIS WILL HELP SET A PRECEDENT FOR THOSE WHO FOLLOW AFTER ME.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT SENDS A CLEAR MESSAGE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT YOU NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE REPETITIVE FORESIGHT ABOUT IMPENDING VIOLENCE AND THEN BE INDIFFERENTLY IGNORANT IN SPACES THAT HAD MASSIVE EFFECTS ON A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> Joshua: JACOB JOHNS, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> Johns: THANK YOU.

>> Nash: THANKS TO JOSHUA BOWLING AND TO JACOB JOHNS.

ONE QUICK NOTE, NONE OF THE RIO ARRIBA COUNTY OFFICIALS NAMED IN THE LAWSUIT WOULD COMMENT WHEN BOWLING CONTACTED THEM THIS WEEK.

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO DID CONTRIBUTE TO THE SHOW.

YOU CAN FIND ALL OF THIS WEEK'S INTERVIEWS AND THE FULL EPISODE AT NMPS.ORG, OR ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE CHANNEL.

AND JOIN US HERE NEXT WEEK AS WE EXPLORE THE END OF MORE THAN A DECADE OF FEDERAL OVERSIGHT OF THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND WHETHER THE AGREEMENT TO CHANGE ITS CULTURE AND A PATTERN OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WORKED AS INTENDED.

FOR NEW MEXICO PBS, I'M NASH JONES.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, STAY FOCUSED.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.