From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made at a popular store in Geneva, in the heart of the Finger Lakes.

The store is called Hernandez Mexican Store.

It sells Mexican staples of all kinds.

Produce, canned goods, snacks, sweetbreads.

But in the last few days, this popular store has become a ghost town.

Several customers noted over the weekend that roughly 90% of the traffic was gone.

The store then put out its own notice to the public.

They are now offering home delivery service.

That's because a significant portion of the clientele is concerned about going out in public.

Hearing rumors of Ice agents and mass deportation.

What's happening in Geneva is happening in Rochester and in communities across the country.

That is, there are rumors everywhere.

So far, there isn't a whole lot of corroboration.

But the Trump administration has promised millions of deportations starting right away.

The Rochester Police Department released a statement clarifying that they don't have authority in immigration proceedings.

Rochester Mayor Malik Evans has affirmed that he was made aware that federal immigration officials were in the area this past weekend, but he has not received any information about the outcome of their presence.

He continued to say that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement does not alert, coordinate with, or involve local governments or law enforcement in their activities.

What's clear is that President Trump feels empowered to act on immigration.

He campaigned on exactly the kinds of Ice action that is being discussed now.

Pew research finds that 56% of American voters support mass deportation of undocumented immigrants.

That includes 88% of Trump voters, but also more than a quarter of Harris voters.

And yet, Pew offers another piece of data that seems contradictory.

64% of Americans support allowing undocumented immigrants a way to stay in this country if certain conditions are met.

So what are those conditions?

Well, almost 80% of Americans want background checks for undocumented immigrants.

More than half say that undocumented immigrants should be required to get a job.

And certainly we know that many people are crossing the border looking for jobs.

But the moment the Trump administration is not focused on a path to staying, but instead a plan for deporting us.I will continue to report what we know, understanding that there is tremendous amount of buzz and speculation we will be pursuing and confirming facts.

And we welcome listeners to share what they are seeing and hearing.

All of which brings us to this hour's conversation.

Last year, we sat down with documentary filmmakers Robert Bill Heimer and Heidi Ostertag, who were working on the completion of their latest film.

And now it's done.

It's called Running to Stand Still.

The public can see the film on Thursday at 530 at Holler Horn Distilling in Naples.

We'll share more information about the event that's coming up in just two days.

But first, let me welcome back to the program, Robert Bill Heimer.

Bob is president of Worldwide Documentaries and director of Running the Standstill Migrants, Migrant, search for Hope and the Promised Land.

Welcome back.

Nice to see you.

Always good to be here.

And thanks.

Welcome as well to Heidi Ostertag, the executive producer of the film.

Thank you for being with us.

And welcome to On the Phone to Michael de Brule.

Michael is a retired Border Patrol agent and a director of a migrant shelter in El Paso, Texas.

Michael, thank you for being with us.

It's my pleasure.

Thank you.

So again, Thursday is a big day for this film.

That has been a long time coming.

If you want to see the film.

The event runs from 5 to 9 at Holla Horn Distilling in Naples.

The screening starts at 530.

The admission is free.

it is really a great community hub that they have down there in Naples, and we have talked to the owners a number of times.

So no matter your disposition on immigration and deportation, etc., if you want to see the film, it's free chance to do that.

The film is about 25 minutes long, little longer than a short, not as long as a feature.

You know, in the short attention span.

Age is probably perfect, Bob.

Just about that.

But this has been a long time coming, and I want to back up.

And just before we get to the film, I want to ask all three of our guests a little bit about what if you are sort of starting to hear the same kind of things, the that is creating this buzz, maybe it's fear, maybe it's speculation.

how are you feeling?

What are you hearing, Bob?

I think it's, It's pretty bad.

what we're experiencing is, what I might call the politics of fear.

The politics of pain.

the intimidation, the actions that are taking place, as you said, a really good intro.

Are only going to get worse.

We're seeing kids taken out of school.

and it's just a beginning.

I think the point being with the with Trump, it's they've been sitting around for four years trying to figure out this plan, which is why we saw what was at 200 plus executive orders in day one.

and I, I'm just deeply, deeply concerned about this.

It's going to affect our own community here.

Kids are going to be taken out of school.

I should tell you very briefly that three people that we invited to be here on the show who said they wouldn't come, couldn't come because they're afraid.

Yeah, I understand that.

And I want to say to listeners and viewers, I mean, we very much, we strongly believe in the notion of nothing about us without us.

having conversations.

if the conversation is about a particular segment of the community, they should be included.

But Bob's right.

I mean, this is a case.

This is a moment where it is not easy to convince someone to speak publicly.

And I understand that.

So I want to say I understand right out of the gate.

I understand why, I also want to ask you a little bit, Bob, before I turn to your colleagues.

You know, you say that it feels pretty bad out there.

There's a lot of fear.

and you're right to point out that this administration has come in this time.

I think Trump the sequel is a lot more planned out and prepared.

so they're prepared to govern in the way that they promised to, but they won the election.

And you look at this polling and, you know, I mean, there's a lot of nuance in the polling, but a majority of Americans, when you ask them just straight out, do you support mass deportation?

56% say yes.

What do you make of that?

I don't think that folks are really aware of what this means, to, our country and to the people who are being affected, that I think that will become apparent very soon.

our job with this movie is to kind of just lay out the truth of of what's happening.

so my sense is that the reason you're seeing those kinds of numbers originally is because this, as there often is a lack of awareness and, and genuine simple knowledge about what's going on.

and, and it goes back to, I think misconceptions.

Words like refugee and asylum seeker.

These are dehumanizing concepts.

and language that, is not helping anyone.

I don't think, so that I think the soon the American public and I'm hoping we'll begin to realize what we're, in fact doing and what's at stake in terms of really the soul of our country.

I believe it's that important.

it's not freight trains anymore.

Well, in a moment, we'll talk about how this film has come together and what the filmmakers want you to see.

How did you want to add to anything?

And about how, you know, the climate that you're hearing about and feeling and seeing out there right now?

Yeah.

And make sure you get right on that microphone for me.

Thank you.

I think Mike can really speak to this because he's on the border.

in El Paso, but we're feeling it here as well.

It is, fear and intimidation, suffering.

people are afraid to go to the store.

I think what we found with folks here in Rochester, it's not so much that those who work with migrants or advocate for them, the resettlement community, which is what we are, they're not afraid for themselves, but they're afraid for the people they represent.

and they're scrambling.

And I think, Bob's point is, is well taken.

I don't think the American people realize the trickle down, they're worried about the economy.

This is going to trickle down to the economy.

Everybody agrees we need immigration reform.

Absolutely.

It's completely outdated.

But it doesn't have to be cruel, and it doesn't have to be inhumane.

So what we've tried to do with, running to stand standstill is to to let migrants speak for themselves.

And, and from a human point of view, take it down to that.

Michael de Bruhl is joining us from the border in El Paso, Texas.

He's the director of a migrant shelter and a retired Border Patrol agent.

Michael, how long were you in the Border Patrol?

I was in the Border Patrol for 26 years.

Okay.

And, tell me a little bit about your path from Border Patrol agent to directing this migrant shelter.

Well, it's interesting.

It was, kind of a meandering path, if you will, but when I.

When I retired, in 2014, shortly thereafter, two years after I started hearing kind of what we all hear, and that is that, you know, all migrants are criminals and, they're being released, released from insane asylums and countries are sending us their worst, people, etc.. kind of capped with, separating children from their families, etc.

just things that I really could not abide by.

And I knew not to be true from my experience in the, in the Border Patrol.

And so I just decided one day it was a church and they passed out a form, that, in which you could sign up to, volunteer to migrant shelter.

And I started doing that.

So, from there that led to like talking to groups, etc., kind of lending some fidelity to this discussion that we're, we were having and still continue to have in the United States regarding migration.

And, and that's really that led to actually me volunteering at a shelter, the Sacred Heart Shell shelter in El Paso and eventually being director of that shelter.

Mike, what do you think?

I'm sure there's plenty of things that you hear, either in the media or in the public discourse, that you think maybe is missing the mark in terms of accuracy on this issue.

But what do you think?

What do you hear the most that, makes you feel like people don't fully understand?

Well, I mean, the thing is that that the, migration and immigration, in the United States is it's a, it's a hub with many spokes, you know, it's not a binary, discussion.

And that is, closed the border or open the border, or, you know, all things are bad or migrants are bad or, or, you know, we should we should, open the border completely.

It's not a binary discussion, but that's what we hear, you know?

So, I think that's what's really off the mark and that, you know, we can actually, reform, you know, the, our immigration system in a way that upholds the rule of law, is consistent with national security, is consistent with economic, our economic interests, etc..

So I think that's where we're really missing the mark.

And unfortunately, you know, it's unfortunate that we can't have a robust engaged in a robust and respectful debate, regarding the facts, and transparency and working towards, a system which benefits all of us.

Mike, I know you've seen some hard things in your career.

you've seen people die.

you pulled someone out of the water after they had drowned and I don't bring this up to be sensationalistic.

I bring it up because I think it's valuable to hear your perspective.

how you saw the humanity in moments like that.

I mean, I know you've talked about still being able to see that person's eyes in the water and, how has that affected you and maybe helped you see people as people?

Well, I think I think that's important also, and that is that, you know, I worked in the Border Patrol for a long time.

There's a lot of great folks in the Border Patrol and you cannot be a Border Patrol agent and not be affected by the humanity of what you see, every day working in the field, in many, in many aspects.

I think Border Patrol agents are much closer to the reality of what happens, in migrants journeys from their homes to the United States and how difficult that is.

and as a matter of fact, the Border Patrol, open had to, had to open up a program, a significant, a robust program having to do with, with, self-care and mental health because the, the, the suicide rate was so high in the Border Patrol, and it's because it's a difficult job and, it's, it's difficult for anyone to do.

And, you know, Mike, I asked, our guests in studio about this a little bit, and I want to get your take as well about maybe some of the the where the culture is at the moment.

Americans are interesting creatures.

I don't say this to be cheeky, but Americans will say that they want government out of their health care, and they really like their Medicare.

And, you know, they'll say they want government to stop taxing them, but they want higher taxes on wealthier people.

And they will say that they want, a chance for people who are undocumented to who are in this country to have a path to staying here.

And yet a majority of Americans also says yes to mass deportation.

So there's always some contradiction about, about us as human beings.

and I want to get your take on, you know, some of that data that Pew has pulled together about what it says about this moment.

What do you make of some of those numbers, especially the that slight majority of support for mass deportation make people.

Well, I think that when you when we are first of all, let me say that it's very difficult to, it seems to me to figure out what's true and not true about any subjects because there's so much information out there.

and so it's very difficult to, to, to, to actually figure out what's true and not true sometimes.

But when you are constantly, you know, when the American public here's what we hear every day about, about crime, etc.

and I first of all, and also I don't, I don't blame anybody for thinking that there's an immigrant, crime wave, because that's what we hear all the time.

But it's just not that simple.

but when you hear that message all the time, then, you know, you start to think that.

Okay, well, maybe we need to.

How do we get rid of this problem?

Are we threatened by this?

And if we feel threatened and we're concerned, then we want an action from that concerned.

And that's, I think, what leads to what has led us to this point in time, where the American public says, you know, a majority says, listen, okay, we need to get rid of this problem.

It we're threatened by this problem, you know, let's see what action is going to be taken.

So I think that's what has led us to this is a is the constant messaging, regarding, people coming into this country.

We're talking to Michael de Bruhl, who is a retired Border Patrol agent and director of a migrant shelter in El Paso, Texas.

And with me in studio is the team behind worldwide documentaries and the new film, Running the Standstill.

Migrants Search for Hope and The Promised Land.

Robert Bill Heimer, Heidi Ostertag are with us in studio.

You can see that film.

The screening starts at 530 on Thursday night.

5 to 9 is the event.

It's down at Holler Horn Distilling.

It's a great location in Naples.

The admission is free and there will be appetizers, cash bar mean there's always a lot going on at Holler Horn, but this is an event, a chance to to see this roughly half hour long film and then have a conversation about it.

Bob and Heidi are here talking about their work at the border to try to tell this story.

And in a moment, we're going to really dig into this film.

I want to say to listeners, if you want to interact about this issue, we'll be doing a lot on this program.

I promise you that.

And part of the reason I'm talking about where the polling is on this is I'm trying to acknowledge that it doesn't do anybody any good to have a talk show host who's just here trying to beat you over the head in one direction or another.

America is pretty divided right now, and sometimes contradictory.

So it's a we have a kind of tangled set of opinions, but there's a lot of strong opinions on the border.

I think Bob and Heidi are making a very important point about what's going to happen in the next year.

this country, if the Trump administration is successful, they will deport in a way that we really haven't seen, probably ever.

NPR reported that the Trump administration has essentially cleared the way to pull kids directly out of schools.

You know, that would not be something that we have seen.

you could see entire crews pulled out of the backs of restaurants, you could see churches, you could see other organizations.

So this is the kind of action that has been promised and that people, a lot of people wanted and voted for.

And then the question will be, once you see it, if it happens, does that change your mind or is that what you want him?

And then what's the result of the economy?

What's the result to humanity?

There's a lot of questions that will be answered in the next year.

Now that this election has happened.

elections have consequences.

If you want to weigh in on this, you can do that in a lot of different ways.

844295 talk.

It's toll free.

8442958255263 WXXI.

If you're calling from Rochester.

2639994, you can email the program connections at Sorg.

connections@kci.org is the email address.

And we are on the Sky news YouTube channel.

So if you're watching along with us every afternoon there.

Hello.

Thank you for being with us.

And you can join the chat section there on YouTube.

So lots of ways to interact.

And and we'll be taking your, your feedback coming up here.

Now if you don't recall the conversation with Bob last year, this is a film that took a lot of work to get done.

Here you are, Bob on the doorstep, putting this thing out there into the world.

Take us back to the beginning.

Why don't you and Heidi, if you want to take us back to the impetus for how this film got made and why?

We've always excuse me.

We've always had worldwide been interested in issues that, Are of humanitarian concern, shall I say.

And, the it has been impossible, I think, to escape the reality of.

Forced migration and mass migration and the consequences of that.

So we've been thinking about this for a fair amount of time and.

The concern always with our filmmaking is to put a human face on these kinds of issues, so that they are no longer about refugees or asylum seekers.

and to try to just as I think is I can't remember exactly what you said there, but, you know, encourage a thoughtful, un historical conversation among the American people about these issues, particularly this issue, that has been plagued and more so every day now by alarmist rhetoric that builds on itself and to the point where we are at.

And so the idea behind the film was, you know, in many ways, just let's tone it down a bit.

Let's talk about this.

Let's lay out the truths.

let's not get hysterical.

Let's deconstruct these stereotypes and, you know, try to help Americans have a thoughtful conversation about the future.

I personally believe that, A lot is going to be decided about what country, what kind of a country we're going to be in the next four years.

and for that reason, there was basically no choice about what kind of a film to make or to make this film.

We this is what we do.

You know, you want to edit that, honey.

And just that we started seeing the numbers globally.

I remember the, one of the U.N., general secretary said that this is, people on the move, people being displaced by climate change, economic, wars, so on.

this is only the beginning and it's not going to change.

And we started seeing the numbers in Europe, and then we started hearing about what was going on at the border.

And our mission has always been to educate the general public on an underreported or misreported issue.

And we felt it was really important, especially in this day and age of fast news, to try to bring it down to the human aspect, is that there's there's seven phone lines filled up.

So I'm going to interrupt this brief part because I we're in danger of having no open lines in a moment.

which happens.

But boy oh boy.

So let me just take some of your, your feedback, and we're going to work through a lot of it as we go throughout this hour.

I'll start with Marilyn in Rochester.

Go ahead.

Marilyn.

Hi, guys.

I just wanted to say that I think Mr. Trump has, effectively, negated any conversation, any discussion, whatever, by all of the edicts that he's put out.

since day one, of his new administration, he's used his use every ploy that he possibly can to shut down that conversation.

And a case in point was last fall when there was a conversation going on, in the, in Congress, and he effectively shut that down at the very last minute.

I'm not saying any of that was perfect.

I'm not saying that that was the be all and end all solution, but I am saying that it was a start and he shut it down.

So how do you get to a point where, this can this sort of thing can happen?

And he wasn't even in office then?

how you can get to a point where that can happen?

I just, I just don't understand.

It's a bully and a bully pulpit.

And as an aside, I just want to say that I was, Christian, was baptized and raised at Central Presbyterian Church, and I say a hello to Mr. Boeheim, who I know was there.

So, And I appreciate his father, as well.

So, at any rate, there's a lot of work to be done, and I don't know where or how that conversation can start again unless there's a huge, swell of uprising amongst the people.

out in the out in the United States.

Well, Marilyn, I appreciate the phone call.

Bob made my day.

Marilyn.

God bless you.

And let me just say there's actually, I think two different prongs to Marilyn's point about the power that this president has, first of all, over his party, I cannot recall an American politician who just totally captured their own party more than this president has.

it is really, really remarkable.

he is essentially all powerful over the Republican Party.

That is true.

but then the question is on the law, what can this president do?

So one of the questions that's going to be addressed pretty quickly is birthright citizenship.

We have a 14th amendment.

We've got a court system.

and, you know, I know some listeners have said, well, there's a lot of Trump appointees in the courts, certainly not all.

but we're going to find pretty quickly just how much this executive power extends, because this is an administration that is seeking to concentrate power not just over a party, but over all three branches.

If they can, to circumvent having to deal with the legislative or judicial branches.

And they may be successful with that.

I don't know.

They may not be, but for this moment, this is the most concentrated power I think we've ever really seen in American federal government.

Heidi, I just want to add one thing.

Many people don't realize that it's in our Constitution that people can come to our borders to seek asylum.

That's law.

We now have no asylum, nothing.

The borders.

That's it.

No one right now can come and seek asylum, no matter how desperate.

Whatever your situation, even Afghan, soldiers who helped our troops are being turned back.

Those were promises we made.

people don't realize, they're defying laws.

Yeah.

So what Heidi's referring to is, is an order.

One of the executive orders ending all incoming flow of refugees from around the world.

and, we had a conversation last week with those who support our Afghan partners, who, and that's just another prong of this.

But I suspect we will see a lot of these end up with pretty quick legal challenges, and then we'll see.

So the courts will have to have a lot to say about how much power the executive has.

Let me just try to keep working through your calls.

If you're on the line, I will try to get through all of them.

But if I don't, you should probably just go to holler Horn on Thursday.

Greg in California, listening on the same mobile app.

Hi, Greg.

Go ahead.

Good morning.

And, I am calling from San Diego, but more precisely from San Ysidro, California.

Right now, I am about 1.5 miles from the Mexican border.

I live in a community that is probably 98% Mexican.

I am one of the few Anglo white folks living here, and what my opinion is, Trump is causing this country to commit suicide economically.

there is no reason for it.

it I just have images of a style of this state where people will be urged to call and turn in people, and have, the ice knocking at the door of people.

Yeah.

People are going to be afraid.

People are going to be afraid to walk in the fields of the Central Valley here in California, or maybe in an English restaurant down the road here in San Ysidro.

It's just an act of self-destruction.

Greg, listening in California.

Thank you for the phone call.

Part of what Greg is describing, that that culture of fear that we've been talking about is some of what this new administration actually wants to sort of foment, because what they've described is, a term that you actually heard Mitt Romney use when he was running for president.

Self-deportation.

The idea that, well, there's so much fear we're just going to leave on our own before we have to be deported.

Is that going to happen?

It's hard to believe too many people will self-deport if you want to use that phrase.

I mean, Mike, you've met many people who've crossed the border.

Can you imagine, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people choosing to leave voluntarily before ice comes?

Well, you know, I in the shelter we deal with, with, documented folks or folks who are who are paroled into the US.

So now I can only imagine, though, if you are undocumented, that that, that there's significant pressure on on your cell on you and your family every day.

You mentioned about the store being empty.

So I'm sure that there's a lot of pressure on, people who do not have documents to make a decision on kind of what their future is going to be.

Yeah.

I mean, I think, Bob, the Trump administration would say, good.

That's that's the goal here.

If you're not here legally, if you don't have documents, then you should be thinking that way.

I'm shaking your head.

Yeah, absolutely.

you know, I think we're in a battle for the soul of the country.

And that the current administration at the present time is is winning that battle that know we're in a battle for the soul of the country.

it remains to be seen.

I think a lot of that is up to us.

I'm very moved by what I'm hearing.

And, the show of folks who are deeply concerned.

but I don't think there should be any, mistaking the fact of how serious, the Trump people are at this point.

and what the implications of that are for our future, our collective future.

as Americans, I saw you nodding.

You want to you want to weigh in there head?

Yeah.

Because what he's saying, they want to put the fear out there because then it's saving them the trouble.

someone I know who works with migrants, in our agricultural farms, told me a story recently about somebody in Geneva who, because of his family, he was worried about being deported, his family left alone.

He said, we're going to go back.

I don't remember if it was Guatemala or not, but this man had had, a hospitalization.

He owed the Geneva hospital $2,000.

He went and paid the bill before he left the country.

And, our friends said, why did you do that?

And he said, Because I'm a person of integrity.

yeah.

Yeah.

If, listeners, if you've got stories that you want to share like that, if there and I know that there's also questions about in you know, what's fact in reality, I want to I want to stress again, ten, nine days into a new administration, I don't know that we know a lot more than some of the rumors that are out there.

There's been some reporting, certainly, but we're going to do our best to try to differentiate, not to not to stoke fear unnecessarily, but to speak directly about what we do know and don't know.

different.

Marilyn.

Hi, Marilyn.

Go ahead.

Thanks for for calling the show.

Sure.

Thanks for taking my call.

and, a couple points I'd like to make.

one is, I think the more of us that witnessed what's going on directly, the more powerful our voices can be in sharing what we witnessed with other folks to spread that, an example is I have three friends that spend the month of February every year in Arizona, not on vacation, but volunteering with the Green Valley Samaritan Group.

along the border.

I'm going to go down there and visit for a few days, next week, not so much with the expectation that I'm going to be volunteering.

Really contribute in that short of a time.

But really more what they want me to do is witnessing, come back and tell people, you know, what I see and what I've experienced there.

the other point I'd like to make is I'd like to encourage the film makers to, take an easy route to getting some wider exposure of their film here locally by submitting to the Rochester International Film Festival, will be screening, short films the first three days of May at the Dryden Theater.

And submissions can go through, film freeway.

Or you can go to Rochester Film fest.org for more info.

Last year we screened a film called Shura, which was one of about one of the, founders of the Green Valley Samaritans, and it was very popular with our audience.

And we have a submission already this year called They Call Me the Cross Man, about a man who builds beautiful wooden crosses and places them in the desert and locations in Arizona where, unfortunately, bodies have been retrieved.

Powerful stuff Marilyn.

We'd love to see your films submitted, Marilyn.

Thank you for that.

I'll ask the filmmakers and, as I do that, I have an email from Paul in Rochester who says this film needs to come to Rochester soon, too.

How about the little theater?

So Paul says, little theater.

you know, that's a home game for us.

We're we're biased there.

But, Marilyn is also talking about Rochester Film Fest.

Anything you want to add there, Heidi?

Just two quick things, Marilyn.

God bless you.

And, you if you see the film, you'll see a familiar face there.

Gail from Green Valley who you know, is fearless.

she appears in the film.

And I recently, spoke with someone, that's currently down there, on the border and where you're heading.

Unfortunately, right now, they're not accepting people on a human humanitarian basis.

They have the, heartbreaking job of those who come through that break in the wall of telling them that they have to turn around.

So, you know, be strong next week.

It's not going to be easy.

And I look forward to entering the film and to the film festival.

We're on it.

Thank you.

Marilyn Paul, thank you for the email.

If you're on the line, hang there.

If you send emails, we'll get to as many as we can.

We've got to take one only break of the hour, and you can see the buzz that's been generated already by this film that you can see, at the very least, you can see it Thursday.

We know that at 530 on Thursday night, you can see it, in Naples at Holla Horn Distilling for the event there.

It's a screening and fundraiser for what?

what Robert Bill Heimer and Heidi Ostertag are bringing in this film.

It's called Running to Standstill migrants.

Search for Hope and the Promised Land.

They are with us in studio.

Michael de Brule is with us on the line.

He's a retired Border Patrol agent and director of a migrant shelter in El Paso, Texas, right back to your feed back after this only break.

Coming up in our second hour.

President Trump's executive orders extend to the subject of DEA.

He wants to abolish DEA essentially everywhere, starting with the federal government, but also in corporate America, in the academic sector.

And what that means now is that DEA practitioners, if they want to keep their work going, they have to defend the practice.

What's the value of Di?

What is the mission in 2025?

We'll talk to practitioners next hour.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

before I get right back to your feedback, I just want to mention I, you know, I have a little bit of a connection to the wine industry, having written about the wine industry in the Finger Lakes for a number of years, and I've heard from a number of people who are already concerned about work crews, about getting crews to be able to do harvest, in the years to come.

if we continue on this path.

And how do you were mentioning during a brief break that, you're not surprised that our phone bank got filled up and that our emails are getting filled up, that people are very engaged?

You've already seen it yourself.

The question I have is, is this the film that says, hey, we're going to change the minds of the people who want mass deportation or are you galvanizing the choir who already opposes mass deportation?

No, this is a conversation starter.

Conversation starter.

Yeah, we we witness someone at a recent screening who has a daughter in law that she loves, but they're on the other two sides of this issue.

And she said her daughter in law was interested in talking about the humanity of it.

I said, show her the film.

I said, please have home.

invite people to your home, have house screenings, where people can talk about it.

It's just putting the facts out there.

And we, mass deportation was meant to remove the criminals and migrant criminals, people in our jails.

We get that.

But you're sweeping up as the borders are said, collateral damage, which is people that have been in our neighborhoods for 30 years picking, picking the the fruits, dairy farmers.

We're one of the largest dairy farmers in the, in the country.

and so, that's what we're trying to get across.

These are our neighbors.

let's get back to your phone calls.

This is Jana in Geneva listening on Finger Lakes Public Radio was.

Hey, Hey, Johnny.

Go ahead.

Yeah, this is Jana.

I love your show, Dawson.

And thank you for taking my call.

I am the child of an immigrant.

My father was born in Poland.

His entire family who stayed in Poland, was deported to Treblinka.

And that is the end result of deportations.

I think it is an obligation, especially as a child of, of an immigrant, to support the Spanish community here in Geneva.

We can hold that film showing at the Smiths Opera House.

We can, I am what?

I'm sorry.

I'm nervous.

It's okay.

I think it is the responsibility of the non-Hispanic, community here in Geneva to shop at, the store that is mentioned.

And I am going to volunteer myself to bring grocery release to the Hispanic community.

Who is afraid to shop at, Hernandez.

I don't want them to be charged for their grocery deliveries.

and and that's my take on it.

Think globally, act locally.

Jonna, thank you for the phone call.

And I'll just say, what Jana is talking about is feeling a sense of.

I've got a strong view on this issue, and what can I do?

So Jana is looking in her own community for that.

you know, when you zoom out, you've got questions about, how to fix the issue more broadly.

So Jennifer, Jana, thank you.

Jennifer writes to say it seems that we rarely hear about how much help it would be to increase the number of immigration judges and decrease the enormous backlog of asylum seekers and refugees.

I'm baffled at why this isn't more directly addressed.

These folks should not have to wait years to have their cases decided.

That is from Jennifer.

so Jennifer is thinking on the big picture side and this is something that I'll give our guests in studio time to talk about this, but let me turn to Michael de Brule on this one, because Michael has said that you can you can admit that there's a problem with our immigration system that needs addressing and address it in ways that don't feel inhumane.

To use the words of our guests in studio.

so, Michael, when when Jennifer says, can't we fix these problems more quickly?

Why are people waiting so long?

She's seeing one aspect of this problem.

How do you see that?

Is this part of the solution?

Do you want to see Mike?

Yeah.

As I mentioned, earlier, when you know this, this, the immigration system is a hub with many folks, and that is the the immigration system.

it's Heidi mentioned that many people characterize it as broken.

You know, there are many things that can be done to relieve pressure on the border.

There are many aspects that, that we can address to, to fix and and support, a system that that, upholds the rule of law and helps and helps with our economic interests of, you know, citizens of the United States and certainly, like, in your area.

it helps the economic system.

so there are a lot of things that we can do, but actually getting to the point where we can, address those issues, that is the difficulty when you're in a situation in which we are, everyone is in their their own corner, and, I espousing their views as the correct views.

It's difficult to come to those solutions, and.

But she's right.

these are these are part of the solutions that we that we should talk about.

we have to understand that.

And Heidi and Bob did such a great job of bringing a a human face to to this to immigration.

And that is we have to always keep in mind that we can affect rules and laws and policies, but there is a cost to those things.

So we should always keep that in mind.

When I the day I graduated from the, the Border Patrol Academy, my, my father, who worked at the ports of entry here in El Paso, he told me, you know, today your life is going to change today.

you become a border patrol agent.

Remember that.

You're not a customs officer.

You're not dealing with widgets.

You're dealing with, human beings.

So accord everyone respect and allow everyone their dignity.

And I think that we have to keep that in mind.

No matter what our.

If we are working within the system and whatever as a nation, whatever policies and laws and rules we enact, we have to keep in mind that, those, those policies and rules and laws, have an effect on human beings.

And Bob and Heidi, do you want to talk a little bit about how you see possible solutions?

Go ahead.

I think Mike hit on it.

I mean, there's, we need to come together.

Both sides.

I mean, what we're telling people is, you know, everybody can do something here.

We we should not feel that we don't have any power to try to change what's happening.

We have midterms coming up.

Let's put our energies into approaching congresspeople.

Senators that are up for reelection.

Find out where do they stand?

What are you going to do?

We need to change this, immigration system.

It needs to be more humane.

we need to kind of get back to where we used to be.

It's not punching a like on Instagram for, you know, support your local migrants.

That doesn't do anything.

I'm not saying we need we need to get out in the streets again and, you know, really let our voices be heard in a nonviolent way.

But like, like some of the the callers are saying, you know, do something, get involved in the community.

there's many ways that we can do this, but we have to raise our voices.

We can't sit with our head in the sand for the next four years.

Let me get Frank on the phone in Greece.

Next.

Hey, Frank.

Go ahead.

Yes, hello.

About six months ago, I was, near the Oxford and Monroe neighborhood.

A little bit, on the western side.

It was about 10:30 p.m., and I saw a beat up van pull over in front of a convenience store and, you know, joke about 12 or 15 people pile out wearing backpacks and sneakers and tattered jeans.

to me, to me, it seemed obviously like they were illegal migrants or people traveling under a less than ideal circumstances.

And I did something I wasn't sure I should do.

I called 911 because I was afraid some of those people might be girls.

Some of those people might be human trafficked for the most worst, work possible.

And, all I want to do is I want to remind you what it was said.

And here's a man who knew how to run for his life.

Elie Wiesel said there are no illegal immigrants.

Only the documentation is faulty.

Well, Frank, I appreciate the call.

I mean, obviously, I don't have any information about what happened, what you saw.

I will say this again from the journalistic perspective, I news is committed to reporting what we know.

We understand there's a lot of buzz, fear, rumors.

I know that, and there's nothing wrong with sharing what you saw or concerned about.

And there are times where we'll be able to investigate it, I'm sure.

You know, Frank decided to call the authorities to check in on that.

I would just urge everyone, to try to take a breath before you share something that you think is fact.

If you don't know that it's fact.

Let's let's have, I think, direct conversations that acknowledge what we know and don't know or what we think we know, but might not be sure of because this is a time where things can explode and that may not necessarily help things either.

So, and Frank did what he thought was best.

He called the authorities, I mean, and I, I get it.

I totally understand that.

I appreciate that, Frank.

Thank you.

Bob writes to me to say, even during a recent taxi ride to JFK, the driver remarked on the recent and noticeable reduction of truck traffic in the Brooklyn region that he had experienced this phenomenon he attributed to delivery drivers fear of being picked up by ice.

He mused on the substantial impact on many of the businesses in the surrounding New York City region, including new Jersey, and wondered how those businesses were going to survive an unintended consequence of the president's deportation policies that had not registered in my awareness.

Being involved in the wine industry in the Finger Lakes, my own sensitivities have been far more attuned to agriculture and hospitality industries that we anticipate will very likely be substantially impacted.

That is from Bob.

Bob, I appreciate the email.

Thank you.

And listeners, we just got a few minutes left here.

So, you know, if you're just joining us here, you're late to what has been a really, I think, powerful hour of listeners sharing their thoughts, their concerns, different people in different communities.

We've heard from people in California.

We've got a guest on the border in El Paso who's been with us, and we've been talking about this new film that you can see at Holler Horn on Thursday, this Thursday, 530 at Howler Horn Distilling down in Naples, free admission for the film that Bob and Heidi have been talking about.

They're bringing you the film, running the standstill.

Migrants search for Hope in the Promised Land.

So I asked Heidi about this.

I'll ask you, Bob, people are going to you're going to take them in this film to the border, and they may see things they have not seen.

What do you hope it moves people to feel or do?

Bob?

Knowledge is powerful, and at the simplest level, that's what this film seeks to do.

We we don't advocate, advocate.

We never have, we try to tell the truth and, in a sense, leave it at that and put our faith and hope in basic human compassion and understanding.

That really is what we try to do as filmmakers is to just put it out there and, let people draw their own conclusions.

I mean, everyone I remember when I interviewed for another film, the Aids film that we made, I interviewed Kofi Annan, who was the, general secretary of the United Nations at the time.

And I asked him the question that you asked me, and he said, we can all do something according to who we are.

And.

I've thought about that ever since because it was so simple in some ways, but so profound in another way, because it meant that acting really on an issue like this becomes an act of self-definition.

Who am I?

Similar to the phone call we got from Jana in Geneva, who was trying to figure out a way that she could act in a way that she thought was appropriate for herself or herself.

Exactly.

Empowering.

Yeah.

Evan Dawson, Zee Bob and Heidi filmmakers, you know, it goes on and on and on.

We're all individuals.

And I do ultimately think that we're talking about that kind of thing.

We're talking about self-definition here, and I think we'll all find the answers within ourselves.

Michael to Brule, down to our last minute.

What do you want to leave listeners as we continue to watch the story unfold?

Well, you know, I really I go back to, to saying that, you know, if you if you are concerned about a secure border, that's fine.

I believe that every, every country in the world has the right and maybe the responsibility to, to affect migration laws on the border.

You want to know who's coming, why they're coming, what their intent is, who they are, etc.

but, you know, we going to have an immigration system that's fair, orderly and and allows opportunities for legal migration in a way that advances our, economic, security and societal interests and that that addresses the root causes that lead to mass migration.

and the treatment everyone with dignity and values, immigration, immigrants contribution, contributions to the success of our nation.

I mean, really, if you look at the history of migration in our country, it's a positive one.

And I think that, immigration really should be a sign of a confident and successful nation.

So, I think that we need to get back to that.

Michael de Bruhl, retired Border Patrol agent, director of a shelter in El Paso, Texas.

Mike, thanks for being with us this hour.

My pleasure.

Thank you.

Listeners can meet Robert Bill Heimer and Heidi Ostertag on Thursday at Holler Horn.

And apparently, we've got a lot of listeners who would like to drag you all over the region to do more with the film here.

Go ahead and go to our website.

Running to Stand Still film series.com.

Running to Stand Still film series.com.

You can learn more about not only the film, but maybe get in touch with the filmmakers.

There's a lot of interest to bring the film in different places.

Stay in touch with us.

Thank you both for being here.

Wonderful.

Thank you.

Thank you.

To hear all of these folks.

Thanks.

Thank you so much.

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