>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, WE CLOSE OUT OUR TWO-PART MEDIA SPECIAL, TURNING OUR ATTENTION AWAY FROM THOSE WHO MAKE THE NEWS TO THOSE WHO READ IT AND WATCH IT.

>> IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A CONTEXT AND KNOW THE PLAYERS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU CAN'T KNOW THE PLAYERS IF THE MEDIA AND THE PAPERS ARE NOT DOING THE STORIES.

>> Gene: THEN WE WRAP UP OUR ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEWS WITH THE CITY COUNCILOR WHO NOW OWNS FOUR NEWSPAPERS, AND THE NEW EDITOR OF THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

[Music] NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

NOW, THIS WEEK WE CONCLUDE OUR TWO-PART ASSESSMENT OF THE FOURTH ESTATE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE'RE NARROWING IN AND ASKING JOURNALISTS AND VIEWERS ALIKE WHAT MORE THE NEWS INDUSTRY CAN DO TO BETTER SERVE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

WE'LL HEAR FROM A SPECIAL PANEL OF NEWS CONSUMERS, A ROUNDTABLE THAT INCLUDES AN ATTORNEY, A BLACK COMMUNITY LEADER, AND A UNM STUDENT.

IN JUST OVER 15 MINUTES, I'LL ASK THIS PANEL HOW THEY GET THEIR NEWS AND HOW IT AFFECTS THEIR LIVES.

THEN I SIT DOWN FOR A VIRTUAL DISCUSSION WITH ADOLPHE PIERRE-LOUIS AND RON WALLACE, TWO BLACK JOURNALISTS WITH DECADES OF EXPERIENCE COVERING NEW MEXICO.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF OUR SHOW, I ASK THEM BOTH HOW LOCAL MEDIA HAS FARED COVERING AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITIES AND ISSUES, AND HOW THAT COVERAGE CAN BE EXPANDED.

PLUS, WE'LL SHOW YOU PART TWO OF OUR INTERVIEW WITH PAT DAVIS, THE ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT WHO HAS NOW PURCHASED FOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPERS.

IN ABOUT A HALF HOUR, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR ASKS MR. DAVIS WHETHER HE'S SQUEEZING OUT OTHER VOICES, AND WHY READERS SHOULD TRUST ANYTHING PUBLISHED BY AN ORGANIZATION WITH A POLITICAL INSIDER LIKE HIMSELF AT THE HELM.

BUT FIRST, WE WRAP UP OUR OTHER TWO-PART INTERVIEW WITH ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL EXECUTIVE EDITOR PATRICK ETHRIDGE.

JEFF CONTINUES THE DISCUSSION WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT THE JOURNAL'S NEW WEBSITE, A CHANGE THAT HAS WIPED THE PAPER'S DIGITAL ARCHIVE OF EVERYTHING PUBLISHED BEFORE 2020.

>> Jeff: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WEBSITE ROLL-OUT.

I KNOW THIS IS GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING TOPIC FOR A LOT OF FOLKS.

WE'VE WATCHED THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

ONE CONSEQUENCE OF THAT HAS BEEN THAT EVERYTHING PRE-2020 IS NOT AVAILABLE ON THE SITE.

I WILL LAMENT THAT PERSONALLY, BECAUSE THAT MEANS ALL OF MY WORK IS NOW STRICKEN FROM THE OBELISK.

AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE MORGUE, THE HARD COPY, THE CLIP ARCHIVE, IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC ANYMORE.

I WONDER, ARE THERE ANY PLANS TO SORT OF RESTORE THIS INCREDIBLY RICH DIGITAL AND ANALOG RECORD OF THE FIRST DRAFT OF HISTORY THAT STRETCHES BACK MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS IN OUR STATE.

>> Ethridge: OBVIOUSLY WE'VE RETAINED THAT.

WE STILL HAVE ALL THAT, OBVIOUSLY.

WHEN IT COMES TO STORIES AND ARCHIVES OF THAT NATURE, WE'VE PARTNERED WITH NEWSPAPERS.COM, WHICH WILL STILL HAVE EVERYTHING FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME.

YOU CAN STILL SEARCH THROUGH ALL OF OUR STORIES THAT WAY.

PHOTOS, WE STILL HAVE AN ARCHIVE THAT WE CAN EASILY PULL THINGS UP.

YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, YEAH, THE ABILITY TO JUST DUMP EVERYTHING BACK INTO THE NEW WEBSITE, IT JUST WASN'T POSSIBLE.

THE BANDWIDTH THAT IT WOULD TAKE AND JUST SOME OF THE DETAILS THAT ARE REALLY OVER MY HEAD, AS WELL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND, BUT THEY JUST SAID IT JUST WASN'T GOING TO BE POSSIBLE.

AND THEN WE JUST LOOKED AT STATISTICS AND WE KIND OF LET SOME NUMBERS DRIVE THAT.

ANYTHING OVER THREE YEARS OLD, THAT'S LESS THAN FIVE PERCENT OF OUR ONLINE TRAFFIC, SO AT SOME POINT WE JUST HAD TO CUT IT OFF.

BUT I, TOO, LAMENT NOT HAVING THAT ALL AT OUR FINGERTIPS, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY NICE FOR REPORTERS OR ANYONE DOING RESEARCH TO DO THAT.

BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO'S LOOKING FOR THOSE OLD STORIES TO GO TO NEWSPAPERS.COM, AND YOU'LL STILL BE ABLE TO FIND IT.

>> Jeff: GOTCHA.

BEYOND THE CHALLENGE THAT I JUST MENTIONED, HOW DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE ROLL-OUT HAS GONE SO FAR WITH THE NEW WEBSITE?

>> Ethridge: I'M GLAD YOU ASKED, FINALLY, A QUESTION THAT I'M SO EXCITED, BECAUSE I THINK IT WENT REALLY WELL.

I COME FROM THE COMPANY WHO ACTUALLY OWNS THE PRODUCT THAT WE JUST SWITCHED TO.

SO I'M FAMILIAR WITH HOW NEWS AND SPECIFICALLY BLOCKS, WHICH IS WHAT WE CALL IT, AND IT'S A FRONT-END SYSTEM FOR REPORTERS, AS WELL.

IT'S REALLY EASY TO OPERATE.

MOST IMPORTANT, IT DOESN'T BREAK VERY OFTEN AT ALL.

IT'S VERY RELIABLE, WHICH IS WHY OVER 2000 NEWS SITES IN THE COUNTRY USE IT.

I THINK THAT BLOCKS, WHICH SUPPORTS OUR WEBSITE, SUPPORTS SOMETHING LIKE 35-36 PERCENT OF THE NEWS SITES IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, SO IT'S RELIABLE, RELATIVELY USER FRIENDLY.

USERS CAN FOLLOW THE WRITERS THAT THEY WANT TO AND JUST SEE THEIR STUFF.

YOU CAN EASILY CLICK ON JUST LOCAL NEWS OR JUST LOCAL SPORTS, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.

BUT IT DOES A REALLY GOOD JOB OF OFFERING MORE.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SEVEN STORIES THAT YOU'LL SEE ACROSS THE TOP, WHEREAS THE OLD ONE, I WOULD TEST IT AND YOU COULD SOMETIMES ONLY SEE A COUPLE.

>> Jeff: YEAH, TWO OR THREE.

>> Ethridge: SO IF NOTHING ELSE, IT GIVES MORE OPTIONS FOR A READER, I THINK.

AND THE ROLL-OUT I THOUGHT WENT FANTASTIC.

THE STAFF HERE I THOUGHT DID REALLY, REALLY WELL FOR IT BEING SOMETHING THAT THEY HADN'T DONE BEFORE, AND I'VE HELPED ROLL THIS SYSTEM OUT AT SEVERAL OTHER PAPERS WITHIN THE CORPORATION I CAME FROM.

I TOLD THE STAFF HERE THAT I THOUGHT IT WENT AS SMOOTHLY IN ALBUQUERQUE AS ANYWHERE I'VE EVER SEEN.

>> Jeff: YOU KNOW, IT CREATED SOME HUMOROUS MOMENTS ON TWITTER, TOO, WHERE EVERYBODY HAD THIS SORT OF MASS FREAK-OUT OF, OH, MY GOD, THE JOURNAL GOT SOLD TO LEE, AND I'M WATCHING MY BOY MATT REISEN, LIKE, HANG ON, NOPE, THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

SO THAT WAS FUN TO WATCH ALONG.

>> Ethridge: AS HE IS WITH ALL BREAKING NEWS, MATT WAS ON TOP OF IT RIGHT AWAY.

>> Jeff: SO THE ITEM THAT ANNOUNCED YOUR HIRE, THAT RAN IN THE NEWSPAPER, SORT OF DESCRIBED A MIX OF SKILLS.

WATCHDOG JOURNALISM, WHICH WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A LITTLE BIT, AND SOME TECH SAVVY.

RIGHT?

IT IS, AFTER ALL, THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2023 AND WE'RE NOT JUST BUNDLING NEWS AND TOSSING IT INTO PEOPLE'S DRIVEWAYS ANYMORE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STUCK OUT FOR ME WAS A QUOTE FROM YOU IN THAT ITEM IN WHICH YOU TALKED ABOUT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL IS NOT GOING TO BE OFFERING SQUIRREL VIDEOS, WHICH I READ WITH SOME DELIGHT.

THAT SAID, I AM A REGULAR CONSUMER OF WHAT GOES AT ABQJOURNAL.COM, AND OF COURSE I NOTICED THE GREEN CHILI CHEESEBURGER VIDEOS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

>> Ethridge: RIGHT.

>> Jeff: SO I WONDER, WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD FOR YOU IN TERMS OF SOMETHING THAT YOU DO THINK SERVES READERS, DOES DRIVE TRAFFIC, AND THEN JUST STRAIGHT UP CLICK BAIT?

WHERE IS THAT LINE?

>> Ethridge: SO AS I HAVE LEARNED WHEN I MOVED, WITHIN THE FIRST FEW DAYS, IS THAT FOLKS IN ALBUQUERQUE, THEY DON'T JOKE ABOUT THEIR CHILI.

I'VE BEEN ASKED A LOT, AM I A RED OR A GREEN PERSON, AND I STILL DON'T KNOW.

BUT THAT SEEMED WORTHWHILE JUST FROM THAT STANDPOINT.

AND HONESTLY, ALSO, WE'VE GOT A TEAM OF JOURNALISTS WHO DO NEED TO PLAY WITH THIS AND EXPAND, AND I WAS SO EXCITED TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BECAUSE IT'S A TEST.

CLICK BAIT HAS BECOME A BAD WORD.

AT ITS HEART, WHAT CLICK BAIT MEANS IS PEOPLE ARE CLICKINGS ON IT BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY WANT TO CONSUME.

I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S BAD.

WE'VE COINED IT CLICK BAIT AND IT HAS A NEGATIVE CONNOTATION, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S JUSTIFIED.

>> Jeff: THANK YOU BUZZFEED.

>> Ethridge: YEAH.

BUT I GUESS WHAT I WILL TELL YOU IS WHAT WILL DRIVE WHAT WE DO IS IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN IT.

AND THAT'S THE GREAT THING ABOUT THE DIGITAL AGE, IS THAT WE CAN SEE.

IF THIS HAS 10,000 PEOPLE WHO READ IT, THEN IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT, MAYBE WE SHOULD DO MORE OF IT.

IF IT HAS 200 PEOPLE WHO READ IT, MAYBE IT'S NOT AS IMPORTANT.

AND THAT'S WHAT I LOVE ABOUT MODERN JOURNALISM, IS YOU HAVE THOSE STATS RIGHT AWAY.

SO WE CAN TELL RIGHT AWAY, THIS IS A STINKER AND LET'S NOT DO THIS AGAIN.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SORT OF THE STAFF AT THIS POINT.

RIGHT?

AN AWFUL LOT OF INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE AND MEMORY HAS WALKED OUT THE DOOR JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.

AND I MEAN, WITH KAREN MOSES, DAN HERRERA, ELISE KAPLAN, SOME OF THE OTHER REPORTERS, IT REMINDS ME A LITTLE BIT OF KIND OF WHAT HAPPENED BACK IN 2013 WHERE THERE WERE A LOT OF FOLKS WHO HAD BEEN THERE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

I'M WONDERING YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW IMPORTANT THAT SORT OF INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE AND INSTITUTIONAL MEMORY ARE AT A NEWSPAPER LIKE THE JOURNAL.

>> Ethridge: SURE.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ANY NEWSPAPER, THE JOURNAL ESPECIALLY.

KAREN WAS VERY GRACIOUS IN THAT SHE GAVE A LONG RUNNING WARNING TO EVERYBODY THAT SHE WAS LEAVING, AND REALLY DID A LOT TO PREPARE FOLKS.

DID A LOT TO HELP ME, AS WELL.

WE GOT TO SPEND QUITE A BIT OF TIME TOGETHER, AND STILL NOW WE'RE IN COMMUNICATION, BECAUSE THIS IS HER BABY, AS WELL, YOU KNOW.

SHE DOESN'T JUST RETIRE AND NOT CARE ABOUT IT.

SO THAT'S BEEN REALLY GREAT.

SOME OF THOSE OTHER -- YOU KNOW, ELISE, I HAD MET ELISE WHEN I CAME DOWN AND INTERVIEWED, AND WAS CRUSHED WHEN I HEARD THAT SHE WAS LEAVING, BECAUSE I THINK SHE'S A FANTASTIC JOURNALIST.

WHAT I'M ENCOURAGED ABOUT IS THAT THAT INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE WAS HERE SO LONG THAT A LOT OF IT HAS REALLY RUBBED OFF ON THE TEAM THAT'S STILL THERE.

YOU KNOW, ELISE REALLY HELPED MATT BECOME THE JOURNALIST THAT HE IS, AND I THINK THAT HE'S CARRYING ON THAT MISSION SEAMLESSLY.

AND I THINK THAT YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THAT IN THE NEWSROOM, AND THOSE NAMES THAT YOU MENTIONED ARE STILL BROUGHT UP ALMOST DAILY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE TEAM IS REALLY DEVOTED TO CARRYING ON THAT WORK.

I THINK THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE ENOUGH THAT THE LOSS OF THAT INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE IS REALLY MINIMIZED, BECAUSE THEY'RE SO COMMITTED TO THE CRAFT AND CARRYING IT ON.

>> Jeff: WHAT ARE YOUR STAFFING GOALS AND PLANS?

WHAT CAN YOU DO?

ARE THERE GAPS THAT YOU'RE ALREADY STARTING TO LOOK AT, KIND OF MAKIN G SOME HIRES?

AND THEN, WHAT'S YOUR SORT OF RECRUITING PLAN THERE?

ARE YOU LOOKING FOR EXPERIENCE?

YOUNG FOLKS?

HOW DO YOU REPOPULATE THE EARTH?

>> Ethridge: SURE, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I DON'T KNOW.

ALL JOKES ASIDE, WE'RE CURRENTLY HIRING FOR A NIGHT COPS REPORTER, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THOSE PRESSING THINGS THAT YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE.

>> Jeff: INDEED.

>> Ethridge: WE HAVE A NATIONAL SEARCH GOING ON RIGHT NOW FOR A CITY EDITOR.

I HAVE AN INTERIM CITY EDITOR, GABRIELLE, WHO'S FANTASTIC, A GREAT JOURNALIST, BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT SHE WANTS TO DO SOME OTHER THINGS WITHIN OUR NEWSROOM.

SO WE'RE GOING TO REACH OUT.

BEYOND THAT, A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE ASKED ME THAT, ESPECIALLY MY OWN EMPLOYEES, AND I CAN HONESTLY TELL THEM, I DON'T KNOW YET WHAT POSITIONS THAT WE NEED TO FILL, BECAUSE I STILL HAVEN'T GOT A FULL GRASP ON THE OPERATIONS.

BUT I DO FULLY INTEND TO BRING SOME NEW PEOPLE IN.

AND WHEN I APPROACH THAT, I WANT THE BEST JOURNALISTS, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO HELP THE PAPER GET STRONGER.

THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN THAT I'LL AGREE WITH THEM.

BUT YOU DON'T WANT YES MEN, EITHER, YOU WANT PEOPLE WHO ARE DEDICATED TO THE CRAFT, LIKE I FEEL I AM.

BUT THERE'S MORE THAN ONE WAY TO ACCOMPLISH THAT.

SO I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR.

IT'S A COMBINATION OF EVERYTHING.

IT'S A COMBINATION OF EXPERIENCE, ATTITUDE, WILLINGNESS TO EMBRACE THE DIGITAL ERA, BUT ALSO STRENGTH IN TRADITIONAL JOURNALISM.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF I HAD TO JUST MEASURE IT WITH ONE CATEGORY, IT'S DO THEY MAKE US STRONGER, DO THEY MAKE US BETTER?

>> Jeff: 'YES' FOLKS SEEM UNLIKELY.

JOURNALISTS ARE OBSTINATE, PERSNICKETY FOLKS, AS I'M SURE YOU KNOW, AS WELL AS I DO DOING THIS FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.

I WANT TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.

THE JOURNAL HAS HISTORICALLY, AT VARIOUS TIMES IN ITS HISTORY, HAD A REALLY DIFFICULT RELATIONSHIP WITH COMMUNITIES OF COLOR.

OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF THAT.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS PRE-DATE YOU.

BUT I'M INTERESTED IN HOW MUCH YOU ARE AWARE OF THAT, AND IF YOU ARE STARTING OR IN A CONVERSATION NOW ABOUT HOW THE NEWSPAPER MIGHT MORE CONSISTENTLY SERVE ALL NEW MEXICANS?

>> Ethridge: SURE.

I AM SOMEWHAT AWARE OF THE ISSUE, AND IT'S CONCERNING.

I WOULD TELL YOU THAT IT'S TOP OF MIND AS I LOOK FOR NEW HIRES.

I WOULD LOVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DIVERSIFY A LITTLE BIT MORE.

I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE REALLY KEY TO MOVING FORWARD IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

OTHER THAN THAT, I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE STAFF THAT WE HAVE AND THAT THEY ARE DEVOTED TO IMPROVING UPON THAT.

AND I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT OUR WORK WILL SHOW THAT IN THE FUTURE.

>> Jeff: I APPRECIATE YOU ANSWERING THE QUESTION.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE ADDRESSING IN THIS SPECIAL THAT WE'RE CREATING ABOUT THE NEWS ECOSYSTEM IS OWNERSHIP, SO I'M ALSO INTERESTED IF YOU ARE AWARE OF ANY CONVERSATIONS OR ANY PLANS IN WHICH THE LANG FAMILY MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT SELLING THE NEWSPAPER, OR IF YOU'RE CONFIDENT THAT READERS AND THIS COMMUNITY CAN CONTINUE TO EXPECT FAMILY OWNERSHIP FOR THE JOURNAL.

>> Ethridge: LET ME TAKE A DRINK BEFORE I ANSWER THAT.

>> Jeff: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Ethridge: I WOULD TELL YOU THAT IF I THOUGHT THERE WAS ANY THREAT OF THE JOURNAL BEING SOLD IN THE NEAR FUTURE, I WOULD NOT BE SITTING HERE RIGHT NOW.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I ASKED ABOUT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT I TALKED ABOUT BILL LANG AND HIS SON, PEPPER LANG, ABOUT IN GREAT DEPTHS, AND THEY ARE COMMITTED TO ME, AT THIS POINT, BUT REALLY TO THE ENTIRE STATE, TO TURN THIS GREAT MISSION THAT THEIR FAMILY HAS BEEN CARRYING ON, AND THERE ARE NO PLANS AND NO DISCUSSIONS TO STEP AWAY FROM THAT OR SELL THAT, WHICH IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS THAT I AM EXCITED ABOUT BEING HERE AND THAT I AM HERE, AND MOVING MY FAMILY HERE.

BECAUSE A FAMILY-OWNED NEWSPAPER OF THIS SIZE, WHO ANSWERS ONLY TO ITS SELF AND ITS COMMUNITY RATHER THAN STOCKHOLDERS, I THINK IS A FABULOUS THING FOR ANY JOURNALIST TO BE A PART OF, BUT EVEN ON A LARGER SCALE, IT'S A FABULOUS THING FOR A COMMUNITY AND A STATE TO HAVE.

>> Jeff: IT'S STARTING TO BECOME A BIT OF A UNICORN, RIGHT, NATIONALLY.

NOT ENOUGH OF THOSE LEFT, THAT'S FOR SURE.

>> Ethridge: IT REALLY IS.

IT'S SUCH A RARITY THAT I FEEL SO PRIVILEGED TO BE A PART OF THAT.

>> Jeff: MY LAST QUESTION IS ONE THAT I'M ASKING KIND OF EVERYBODY WHO'S PARTICIPATING IN THIS SPECIAL THAT WE'RE MAKING, AND I'D LIKE TO START BY SHARING MY PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.

I'VE BEEN IN THIS JOB NOW FOR ABOUT THREE MONTHS, AND A LOT OF WHAT WE DO HERE IS NEWS ANALYSIS AND CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE NEWS.

AND IT HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY CLEAR TO ME THAT WHEN THE JOURNAL IS DOING THE THING, IT MAKES THE CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE AT THIS TABLE AND THE ANALYSIS THAT WE DO OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE STATE AND THE NEWS, IT MAKES THAT BETTER, IT MAKES THAT RICHER.

IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT IN THE ECOSYSTEM, WHICH IS WHY I ASKED YOU TO COME DOWN HERE TODAY.

BUT I'M CURIOUS YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

WHERE DOES THE JOURNAL FIT, AGAIN A MONTH INTO THIS JOB, IN THE LARGER ECOSYSTEM OF NEWS AND JOURNALISM IN THE STATE?

WHERE ARE YOU ALL IN THE PUZZLE?

>> Ethridge: YOU KNOW, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT I THINK WE'RE AT THE FOREFRONT.

I THINK THAT WE -- WHEN YOU WORK AT A SMALLER NEWSPAPER, YOU'RE ALWAYS KIND OF TOP OF MIND OF WHAT THE METRO IS DOING.

YOU'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO OUTSHINE THEM.

I'M IN A NEW POSITION HERE NOW WHERE I THINK THAT WE ARE THE BRIGHTEST STAR.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE THE BEST JOURNALISTS AND THE MOST RESOURCES TO BE AT THE FOREFRONT OF COVERAGE, POSSIBLY DETERMINING WHAT THE NEWS OF THE DAY SHOULD BE.

BUT WE HAVE THE RESOURCES AND WE HAVE THE DEDICATION TO BE THE DRIVER OF JOURNALISM IN THE AREA.

>> Jeff: I PROMISED THAT WAS MY LAST QUESTION, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ONE MORE RIGHT NOW.

>> Ethridge: SURE.

>> Jeff: WHAT SHOULD WE EXPECT IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE OF INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING?

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I DID AT THE PAPER AND HAVE CONTINUE TO DO IN MY CAREER.

HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT TO YOU, AND HOW DO YOU MAKE IT HAPPEN?

>> Ethridge: I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE I THINK THE PROOF IS THERE.

YOU CAN LOOK AT SOME OF THE STORIES THAT THE JOURNAL HAS UNCOVERED, SOME OF THE STORIES THAT WE HAVE DONE AND ARE CONTINUING TO DO, THAT HAVE REALLY AFFECTED CHANGE, THAT HAVE RAISED SOME RED FLAGS ON THINGS THAT OTHERWISE MAYBE WOULDN'T BE CHANGED AT ALL, AND RIGHT NOW ARE IN THE PROCESS OF BEING CHANGED BECAUSE OF WORK THAT THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL DID.

THAT ALONE TELLS ME THAT THE WORK IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

THE JOURNALISTS THAT ARE WORKING IN THAT ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED TO DO THAT.

>> Jeff: PATRICK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING.

GOOD LUCK WITH THE FUTURE, AND LET'S CHECK IN AGAIN A LITTLE WAYS DOWN THE ROAD AND HAVE ANOTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

>> Ethridge: I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO IT, THANK YOU.

>> Jeff: THANKS AGAIN.

>>Ethridge: YOU BET.

>> Pierre-Louis: WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON COVERING THE COMMUNITY, AND THE SAME GOES FOR THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

IF THERE IS SOMETHING HAPPENING, THAT NEEDS COVERAGE.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS THAT YOU SHOW UP AND YOU WANT TO COVER THAT COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE POSITIVE THINGS HAPPENING, AS JOURNALISTS IT'S OUR DUTY TO COVER THAT, TOO.

>> Gene: THAT DISCUSSION WITH PHOTOJOURNALIST ADOLPHE PIERRE-LOUIS AND PUBLISHER RON WALLACE IS COMING UP IN ABOUT 40 MINUTES.

I ALSO WANT TO THANK PATRICK ETHRIDGE FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US.

YOU CAN WATCH HIS ENTIRE INTERVIEW WITH JEFF RIGHT NOW ON THE PBS VIDEO APP.

NOW IT'S TIME TO WELCOME IN A VERY SPECIAL PANEL AS WE CONTINUE OUR DEEP DIVE INTO THE STATE OF JOURNALISM HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

TODAY WE TURN OUR ATTENTION FROM THE BYLINES OF NEWS STORIES TO NEWS CONSUMERS.

I WANT TO INTRODUCE OUR PANELISTS.

I'M HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN STUDIO TODAY BY ALMARINA SOSA.

SHE'S A STUDENT STUDYING POLITICAL SCIENCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO, WHO ALSO JUST FINISHED HER INTERNSHIP WITH THE STATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

WELCOME TO YOU, TO OUR TABLE.

CATHERINE MCGILL, YOU KNOW HER, FOUNDER AND DIRECTOR OF THE NEW MEXICO BLACK LEADERSHIP COUNCIL.

AND ACROSS THE TABLE FROM CATHY IS MAUREEN SANDERS.

SHE'S AN ATTORNEY AT SANDERS AND WESTBROOK.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

NOW, STARTING THINGS OFF, GUYS, I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW HOW EACH OF YOU CATCH UP WITH THE NEWS?

MEANING, DO YOU WATCH YOUR LOCAL NEWS STATION?

DO YOU HAVE A GO-TO NEWSPAPER OR ONLINE PUBLICATION?

CATHY, LET ME START WITH YOU.

I KNOW IT'S A VERY TRICKY QUESTION FOR YOU, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN A NEWS JUNKIE FOR THE 30 DANG YEARS THAT I'VE KNOWN YOU.

SO TO ASK YOU WHAT'S YOUR GO-TO IS KIND OF ODD.

BUT GIVE US A SENSE OF HOW YOU DO YOUR NEWS SWEEP, LIKE SAY IN THE MORNING.

>> McGill: I WOULD SAY IT'S LIKE A HODGE-PODGE.

YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE THESE PHONES NOW WHERE YOU CAN ASK IT TO TELL YOU THE NEWS, AND SO IT TELLS ME, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE MORNING, AND I LISTEN FOR AS LONG AS I CAN.

AND THEN I READ THE WASHINGTON POST, AND YOU'RE READING DIFFERENT COLUMNS.

SO I HAVE, YOU KNOW, JUST A WHOLE TOOL KIT OF PLACES THAT I GO TO FOR NEWS.

AND THEN I LISTEN, I READ FOR AS LONG AS I CAN.

>> Gene: AS A PERCENTAGE, HOW MUCH IS LOCAL, HOW MUCH IS NATIONAL WHEN YOU START YOUR DAY?

>> McGill: I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S PROBABLY 60/40 LOCAL/NATIONAL.

>> Gene: I HEAR YOU.

MAUREEN, WELCOME.

IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

AS AN ATTORNEY, YOU'RE A NEWS WATCHER, CERTAINLY.

I'M CURIOUS, HOW DO YOU DO THE THING?

>> Sanders: ACTUALLY, I BECAME A NEWS JUNKIE AFTER I BECAME AN ATTORNEY AND I WAS WORKING FOR JUDGE MECHEM AT THE FEDERAL COURT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND I NOTICED THAT THE RIO GRANDE SUN WAS SHOWING UP EVERY WEEK.

AND I SAID, WHAT IS THIS?

AND HE SAID, IT'S THE ONLY WAY I CAN FIND OUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, AND I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

AND HE WOULD COME IN EVERY DAY AND HE WOULD HAVE READ, YOU KNOW, THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL AND THE RIO GRANDE SUN AND START TALKING ABOUT IT, AND I THOUGHT, "OKAY, HE'S TEACHING ME SOMETHING HERE."

AND SO FOR MY BUSINESS, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME, AT LEAST, TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, BECAUSE IT GIVES CONTEXT TO MY CASES.

>> Gene: I ASKED YOU PREVIOUSLY, AND I APOLOGIZE, WHAT KIND OF CASES DO YOU WORK ON?

JUST SOME CONTEXT.

>> Sanders: SO HISTORICALLY, MOST OF MY CASES HAVE BEEN COMMERCIAL LITIGATION OR INSURANCE MATTERS, AND THEN I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF EXPERIENCE IN CIVIL RIGHTS, BOTH IN FEDERAL AND STATE LEVELS.

>> Gene: ALL THREE OR FOUR OF THOSE THINGS, YOU DO HAVE TO WATCH THE NEWS CLOSELY FOR ALL OF THOSE.

>> Sanders: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Gene: ALMARINA, WELCOME, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON WHAT YOU'VE ACCOMPLISHED SO FAR.

THREE CHEERS FOR THE POLI-SCI STUDENT, INDEED.

I'M CURIOUS, WE HAVE A BIT OF A GENERATIONAL DIFFERENCE HERE, AND CERTAINLY NOT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, BUT I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU GET YOUR NEWS.

WHAT'S YOUR NEWS GATHERING DAY LIKE, AS WELL?

>> Sosa: SO I THINK THAT IT'S VERY MUCH DIGITALIZED.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S FAIR TO SAY FOR THE GENERAL POPULATION IN MY AGE RANGE, BUT I WILL DEFINITELY SAY THAT IT IS A MIX OF LOCAL AND NATIONAL MEDIA COVERAGE, WHETHER THAT BE THROUGH APPS OR JUST SCROLLING THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA.

I TRY TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT, JUST BECAUSE I KNOW OF ALL OF THE NUANCES THAT COME WITH SOCIAL MEDIA.

I'M VERY MUCH AWARE OF THAT.

>> Gene: VERY WELL DONE THERE BY THE POLI-SCI STUDENT.

THE NUANCES OF SOCIAL MEDIA, WELL DONE THERE.

>> Sosa: THANK YOU.

BUT DEFINITELY THE DIFFERENT APPS, I'D SAY, IS HOW I MAINLY GET MY NEWS SOURCES.

>> Gene: ALMARINA, ON THAT POINT ABOUT APPS AND THINGS, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR NEWS ORGANIZATIONS?

MEANING, IF YOU WANTED TO MAKE SOMETHING KNOWN TO YOUR LOCAL FOLKS, WOULD YOU HAVE THE GUMPTION TO ACTUALLY CALL SOMEBODY AND SAY, I CAN REACH SOMEBODY OVER THERE AND GET A STORY GOING?

>> Sosa: I WOULD SAY SO.

I BELIEVE THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO VOCALIZE YOUR OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS, AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE DEFINITELY CERTAIN CHANNELS IN WHICH THAT IS ABLE TO BE DONE THROUGH.

SO AS FAR AS JUST CALLING SOMEONE AND BEING ABLE TO VOICE YOUR OPINION, WHETHER THAT IS THROUGH CALL OR E-MAIL OR JUST THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA, IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH AND I THINK THAT IS VERY ACCESSIBLE TO ME, AND TO THE GENERAL POPULATION, AS WELL.

>> Gene: INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

I DO WANT TO GO AROUND THE TABLE ON THIS NEXT ONE.

MAUREEN, YOU ANSWERED THIS JUST A LITTLE BIT, BUT I WANT TO GET UNDER THE SKIN HERE A LITTLE BIT.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW THESE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS AFFECT YOUR PROFESSIONAL LIVES, FOLKS, STARTING MAUREEN, HOW DOES THE JOURNAL IMPACT OR INFORM NOT JUST YOUR SHOP, BUT THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMMUNITY?

WHAT'S THE RELATIONSHIP THERE AND WHY IS IT IMPORTANT?

>> Sanders: I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE LEGAL PROFESSION BECAUSE FOR ALL OF OUR CASES, THOSE OF US WHO DO LITIGATION, THERE'S A CONTEXT FOR IT, AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT -- IF I'M GOING TO SUE A PARTICULAR COUNTY COMMISSION, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO KNOW THAT THIS COUNTY COMMISSION HAS A LONG HISTORY OF DOING BAD THINGS, IN MY VIEW, OR IS THIS JUST A ONE-OFF.

SO CONTEXT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE CIVIL LITIGATION SIDE.

UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK MOST OF THE MEDIA FOCUSES ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE, AND THAT, ONE, IS NOT MY INTEREST, BUT IT ALSO ISN'T A CONTEXT SITUATION.

YOU KNOW, IT'S THIS PARTICULAR PERSON DID THIS PARTICULAR CRIME.

AND SO FOR THOSE IN THE CIVIL SIDE OF LITIGATION, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A CONTEXT AND KNOW THE PLAYERS, YOU KNOW.

AND YOU CAN'T KNOW THE PLAYERS IF THE MEDIA AND THE PAPERS ARE NOT DOING THE STORIES.

>> Gene: THAT'S RIGHT.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT WHY A NEWSPAPER ARCHIVE IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> Sanders: THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Gene: IT'S NOT JUST THE DAILY STUFF, BUT THAT ARCHIVE CAN HAVE SO MUCH VALUE FOR RESEARCH, AS YOU MENTIONED, MAUREEN.

>> Sanders: AND I WAS REALLY SADDENED TO HEAR THAT THE JOURNAL IS NO LONGER -- THE ARCHIVES ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE LOCALLY.

I KNOW THAT THEY MENTIONED NEWSPAPERS.COM, AND I LOOKED, AND IT COSTS MONEY TO GO TO NEWSPAPERS.COM.

AND FOR ME, THAT'S A DISSERVICE, BECAUSE I WANT TO BE ABLE -- I REMEMBER A CASE ONCE WHERE I HAD A STACK OF THIS MANY ARTICLES THAT WERE RELEVANT TO THE CASE.

SO DURING THE DEPOSITION, I SAID, "HERE, CAN YOU TELL ME WHICH QUOTE, IF ANY, IN THIS STACK OF YOU, YOU KNOW, QUOTES BY YOU, IS INACCURATE."

SO THAT GAVE ME A WAY TO TEST WHAT THE PERSON WAS SAYING.

>> Gene: SURE, I CAN SEE THAT COMPLETELY.

THAT'S AN EXCELLENT DESCRIPTION.

YOU KNOW, CATHY, YOUR POSITION IS UNIQUE, CERTAINLY, AND I'VE GOT TO ASK, YOU HAVE A WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PRESS THAT YOU'VE HAD FOR YEARS BECAUSE OF YOUR POSITION AT THE NEW MEXICO BLACK LEADERSHIP COUNCIL.

I'M CURIOUS THE FEEDBACK LOOP THAT YOU WORKED WITH.

ARE YOU FEELING LIKE YOU'RE HEARD?

DO YOUR PHONE CALLS GET PICKED UP?

IS THERE PERSPECTIVE ON BLACK ISSUES COMING FROM THE OTHER END OF THE LINE WITH QUESTIONING?

HOW DOES THIS WORK WHEN YOU DEAL WITH LOCAL PRESS PEOPLE?

>> McGill: I'D SAY IT'S A MIXED BAG.

YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'VE HAD TO DO IS KNOCK ON THE DOORS AND SAY, WE WANT TO PARTNER WITH YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET THE STORIES YOU NEED AND THAT YOU'RE ACCURATELY DEPICTING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR COMMUNITY, AND THAT YOU'RE DOING IT FAIRLY AND EQUITABLY.

I WANT TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF JUST LAST YEAR.

WE DO A LOT OF WORK IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT, AND SO WE DECIDED THAT WE WERE DOING A PROMOTION OF A 5K RACE FOR EQUITY.

WE BROUGHT TOGETHER RESIDENTS FROM THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT, PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE, FROM THE LARGER COMMUNITY, AND DID IT RIGHT IN THE HEART OF THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT WITH THE SYMBOLOGY OF, WE'RE LITERALLY WALKING OUR TALK AND WE'RE OUT HERE IN THESE STREETS AND THEY BELONG TO US.

WE CHANGED THE NARRATIVE SO THAT WE COULD SEE OURSELVES DIFFERENTLY.

SO I'M PRETTY GOOD AT PITCHING STORIES, SENDING OUT NEWS RELEASES, WE DO ALL THE SAME THINGS THAT WE ALWAYS DO TO GET THINGS COVERED, AND NOBODY WAS GOING -- NOBODY WANTED TO DO IT.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE ON SUNDAY, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF.

YOU KNOW, I'M CALLING AND SAYING, WHO ARE YOU SENDING, AND IT WAS REALLY CHALLENGING.

ADOLPHE, WHO YOU KNOW AND JUST INTERVIEWED, I'VE KNOWN FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES, AND I KNOW THAT I CAN CALL ADOLPHE AND SAY, ADOLPHE, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT COMING.

AND ON HIS DAY OFF, YOU KNOW, HE CAME TO TAKE A PHOTO TO GET PLACED.

AND HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR THAT, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST A SPRINKLING OF COVERAGE, AND IT WAS A REALLY, REALLY GOOD THING.

BUT THE PEOPLE WHO DECIDE WHAT A NEWS STORY IS ARE DECIDING THAT IT'S LOWER PRIORITY.

LATER THAT DAY, AND I'M TALKING NOW FOUR HOURS LATER, THERE WAS AN INCIDENT INVOLVING A SHOOTING DOWN THE STREET FROM WHERE WE WERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT, I THINK.

BUT EVERYBODY WAS OUT THERE ON THE SAME DAY.

AND SO WE WROTE ABOUT IT IN OUR OWN PAPER THAT WE STARTED BECAUSE WE COULDN'T GET THE KIND OF COVERAGE WE NEED.

>> Gene: THAT'S AN INTERESTING STORY.

I CAN RELATE TO THAT.

YOU KNOW, ALMARINA, INTERESTINGLY THE DATA I'M SEEING FROM PEW RESEARCH CENTER, YOUNG PEOPLE, GEN-Z AND YOUNGER MILLENNIALS, NOT ALL ONE BIG BUCKET, CERTAINLY, CONSUME THE MOST ONLINE NEWS, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE THE LOWEST POLLED EMOTIONAL TRUST OF NATIONAL NEWS.

DOES THAT RESONATE WITH YOU IN THAT AGE COHORT, AS WELL, THAT LOCAL STUFF IS ONE THING, NATIONAL NEWS IS A WHOLE OTHER THING ALTOGETHER?

>> Sosa: PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK THAT I SHARE THAT SAME SENTIMENT, BUT IT HAS BEEN EXPRESSED TO ME BY JUST PEOPLE IN MY SAME AGE RANGE OF THAT GENERAL DISTRUST OF THE MEDIA, I THINK GIVEN THE FACT THAT SO MUCH OF IT ISN'T FILTERED AND THAT IT ISN'T NECESSARILY COMING FROM A PLACE OF RELIABILITY, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.

SO I THINK THAT IN GENERAL, THAT DATA SEEMS TO LINE UP WITH MY GENERAL EXPERIENCE AS FAR AS MEDIA GOES WITH MY AGE RANGE.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION.

AGAIN, I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO SPEAK FOR YOUR GENERATION.

THAT'S ACTUALLY A VERY UNFAIR THING TO DO WITH JUST YOU AT THIS TABLE.

SO YOU'RE SPEAKING FROM YOUR HEART, AND THAT'S INTERESTING.

I'M JUST CURIOUS, IS IT IMPORTANT TO YOU TO KNOW HOW A NEWS ORGANIZATION IS FUNDED?

BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT WITH OUR TWO-PART SERIES HERE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS.

FOR YOURSELF, DOES THAT MEAN SOMETHING TO KNOW HOW THEY'RE FUNDED?

>> Sosa: YES, IT DEFINITELY DOES, AND I THINK THAT WHENEVER I AM CONSUMING MEDIA, I DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS FROM A REPUTABLE SOURCE, AND I DO PUT IN THE EFFORT TO PUT FORTH THE RESEARCH AS TO WHO IS FUNDING AND WHO IS GUIDING WHATEVER MEDIA COVERAGE THAT IS BEING PUT OUT.

SO I THINK THAT THAT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT, AT LEAST FOR ME, RESONATES WITH ME AS FAR AS MY DAILY CONSUMPTION OF MEDIA, EVEN THOUGH I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LOOK AT MEDIA IN EVERY DIFFERENT FACET THAT IT COMES IN.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE, TOO.

MAUREEN, LIKE I SAID, YOU'VE DEALT WITH JOURNALISTS FOR YEARS -- DECADES, I SHOULD SAY, AND YOU'VE SEEN NEWSROOM SHRINK, YOU'VE SEEN THEM VANISH ALL TOGETHER, YOU'VE SEEN A LOT.

WHAT HAS THAT MEANT TO YOU IN THE INDUSTRY THAT HAS CHANGED THE RELATIONSHIP WITH REPORTERS, POSSIBLY, WITH THESE SPECIALIZED BEATS LIKE THE COURTHOUSE?

THAT'S A SPECIALIZED BEAT.

>> Sanders: ABSOLUTELY.

>> Gene: AND YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO REALLY GET SOME BACKGROUND OR CONVERSATIONS WITH THOSE KIND OF REPORTERS, AND THAT MIGHT BE GONE NOW.

>> Sanders: IT IS GONE, AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT AS YOU WERE TALKING IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE THAT SCOTT SANDLIN FROM THE JOURNAL DID THE FEDERAL COURT BEAT, AND SO SHE KNEW THE CASES.

SHE WAS OVER AT THAT COURT EVERY DAY, AND SHE WOULD LOOK AT EVERY COMPLAINT FILED.

AND SO SHE KNEW WHICH ONES HAD A SYSTEMIC IMPORTANT ASPECT TO IT, AND SHE WOULD FOLLOW THEM.

SO WHEN SHE CALLED ME ABOUT SOMETHING IN A CASE THAT'S BEEN PENDING FOR 30 OR 40 YEARS -- AND I'M NOT EXAGGERATING, THOSE ARE REAL -- SHE HAD THE BACKGROUND AND SO SHE COULD SAY, I JUST NEED CLARIFICATION ON WHAT THIS ORDER MEANS.

AT THE SAME TIME, I'M GETTING A CALL FROM SOMEBODY REGARDING THE AMOTT WATER CASE THAT'S BEEN PENDING FOR 40 YEARS, AND THEY GO, MY EDITOR JUST SAID THERE WAS AN ORDER, COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT IT WAS ABOUT AND COULD YOU GIVE ME THE HISTORY?

AND I GO, NO, I'M NOT GOING TO TALK TO THAT PERSON.

OR AT LEAST I'LL TALK TO THEM AND ANSWER A QUESTION, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE THEM THE BACKGROUND.

IF IT'S SOMEBODY I KNOW AND TRUST AND THEY DO NEED SOME BACKGROUND, I'LL SAY, LET'S GO OFF THE RECORD, LET ME GIVE YOU THE BACKGROUND, AND THEN WE CAN GO BACK ON THE RECORD, BECAUSE I WANT TO HELP THEM HAVE THE RIGHT INFORMATION, AND THEY'RE NOT LOOKING FOR JUST A SOUND BITE.

I MEAN, I'LL GIVE THEM A SOUND BITE AT THE END, BUT THEY HAVE TO LISTEN TO MY LECTURE FIRST.

>> Gene: THERE YOU GO.

THAT'S AN EXCELLENT ENDING NOTE THERE, AND THAT'S VERY ILLUSTRATIVE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP THAT CAN HAPPEN WITH AN INDUSTRY AND REPORTERS WHEN WE HAVE THE MANPOWER AND WOMANPOWER TO TAKE THE TIME AND SIT DOWN AND LISTEN.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

THAT'S A HARD THING TO FIND THE TIME TO DO, JUST SIT AND LISTEN AND LEARN.

THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING IN AND TALKING WITH US ABOUT THIS.

WE VALUE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, AND WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR YOUR TIME, CERTAINLY.

AND OF COURSE, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU ALL WATCHING, TOO.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE CURRENT JOURNALISM ENVIRONMENT HERE IN THE STATE RIGHT NOW ON ANY OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES.

NOW, TO PART TWO OF JEFF PROCTOR'S INTERVIEW WITH ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR AND NEWSPAPER OWNER PAT DAVIS.

JEFF STARTS BY ASKING MR. DAVIS FOR REACTION TO SOMETHING HE SAID A FEW YEARS AGO TO ALEX DEVORE, WHO IS THE CULTURE EDITOR AT THE SANTA FE REPORTER.

>> Jeff: SO ANOTHER THING THAT YOU TALKED TO ALEX ABOUT IN THAT 2020 INTERVIEW WHEN YOU WERE MAKING THIS PURCHASE, YOU TALKED TO HIM ABOUT FIRE WALLS, AND I WANT TO READ YOU A QUOTE THAT YOU GAVE HIM AT THE TIME.

YOU SAID: 'WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A PASS ON COVERING PAT DAVIS AS A KEY FIGURE.'

SO WE'RE COMING UP ON THREE YEARS NOW SINCE THAT PURCHASE.

YOU'VE BEEN ON THE CITY COUNCIL THE WHOLE TIME.

YOU'RE COUNCIL PRESIDENT AGAIN NOW.

I KNOW YOU'RE NOT RUNNING FOR A THIRD TERM, BUT WHAT DO YOU SAY TO FOLKS WHO ARE SUSPICIOUS OF A NEWSPAPER THAT'S OWNED BY A SITTING ELECTED OFFICIAL?

>> Davis: I THINK THEY'RE RIGHT TO BE, AND I WANT THEM TO BE, BUT I ALSO THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW WE EXECUTE THAT.

CAROLYN CARLSON IS A LONG-TIME JOURNALIST FOR NEW MEXICO, RAN HER OWN NEWSPAPER, WAS FROM THE JOURNAL, HAD COVERED THE CITY AND OTHER CITIES.

CAROLYN'S COLUMNS ON CITY COUNCIL, I DON'T SEE IT UNTIL YOU SEE IT ONLINE, AND VERY RARELY DOES SHE MENTION ME.

AND WHEN SHE DOES, IT'S USUALLY SOMETHING I SAID THAT WAS STUPID, AND SHE CALLS IT OUT.

WE OPEN OUR EDITORIAL PAGES.

ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO YELL AT ME GETS PUBLISHED.

OTHER FOLKS DON'T HAVE THAT PRIVILEGE, BUT WE GO OUT OF OUR WAY TO DO IT.

BUT ON THE RARE INSTANCES WHERE WE DO TRY TO COVER -- WHEN THE EDITORIAL TEAM CHOOSES TO COVER THE CITY, I'LL USE TABITHA CLAY, A VETERAN REPORTER ON CRIME AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

ONE A STATE WIDE AWARD LAST YEAR FOR NEW MEXICO FEDERATION OF PRESS WOMEN FOR HER COVERAGE GETTING POLICE BODY CAMERAS AND REPORTS SHOWING WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 14 MINUTES OF THAT APD SWAT FIRE IN THE SOUTHEAST, IN MY DISTRICT, CRITICIZING THE CITY FOR DOING THAT.

AND BECAUSE WE'RE IN LITIGATION, I CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT, CAN'T TALK TO HER ABOUT IT, STILL CAN'T.

BUT I THINK IT SHOWS THAT WE'RE DOING GOOD WORK, THAT THEY'RE DOING GOOD WORK ON THE CITY IF YOU JUST LET JOURNALISTS DO IT.

AND I THINK THE WORK HAS TO SPEAK FOR ITSELF.

LOOK, IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTED TO DO THIS, I WELCOME THEM TO DO IT.

I STILL HAVE NOT MADE MY MONEY BACK ON THIS, AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL.

BUT NO ONE ELSE WAS GOING TO DO THIS.

AND SO THE ALTERNATIVE OF, LET'S NOT HAVE ANYTHING VERSUS LET'S HAVE A THING RUN BY A GUY AND LET'S KEEP A GOOD EYE ON HIM, SEEMS LIKE A LOT BETTER OPTION TO ME.

>> Jeff: FAIR ENOUGH.

SPEAKING OF YOUR OTHER GIG, WORKING IN THE CANNABIS INDUSTRY NOW AS A CONSULTANT, I KNOW THE PAPER HAS A REPORTER WHO IS ASSIGNED TO COVER THAT INDUSTRY.

HOW DOES THAT WORK?

HOW DO YOU REASSURE FOLKS ABOUT THOSE FIRE WALLS YOU TOLD ALEX ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO?

>> Davis: YEAH, SO IT'S BEEN A LITTLE -- THAT'S BEEN A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED, BECAUSE A LOT OF MY CLIENTS AND THE FOLKS THAT WE WORK WITH TO GET INTO THE INDUSTRY WANT TO BE FEATURED IN OUR PAPER, RIGHT.

WE HAVE AN ADVERTISING GROUP RUN BY KIM STARK, WHO'S FABULOUS, WHO TAKES CARE OF THOSE THINGS.

I DON'T SEE THOSE DOLLARS, AND WE ACTUALLY SEGMENT THOSE CANNABIS DOLLARS INTO A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT TO BE SURE THAT IT STAYS AWAY FROM THE NORMAL -- THE REST OF THE BUSINESS OPERATIONS, THAT IF EVER THERE WAS A PROFIT, I MIGHT GET A CHECK FROM.

BUT HONESTLY, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PRETTY OPEN POLICY.

IF YOU'VE GOT NEWS, WE TRY TO COVER IT, WHETHER YOU'RE OURS OR NOT.

KIM DOESN'T KNOW WHO OUR CLIENTS ARE, MOSTLY.

BUT AGAIN, IF SOMEBODY ELSE DID IT BETTER, I THINK THE INDUSTRY WOULD JUMP ONTO IT.

BUT IT'S THE LARGEST CANNABIS MAGAZINE IN THE STATE, IN PART BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE INDUSTRY ARE GIVING IT A PLATFORM TO BE EQUITABLE ON GOOD, BAD AND UGLY, WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INDUSTRY TRENDS, OR INDUSTRY PROBLEMS, AND OVERSATURATION.

>> Jeff: LET'S OPEN THE LENS A LITTLE BIT AND GET INTO SOME ECOSYSTEM QUESTIONS.

AND AS A WAY TO GET INTO THAT, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT ELSE YOU'RE DOING IN THE SPACE RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE SORT OF AT A PLACE NOW WHERE IT'S PAT DAVIS NEWSPAPER MAGNATE WHO NOBODY EVER HEARD OF, EXCEPT FOR THE NERDS LIKE ME WHO WERE REALLY PAYING ATTENTION.

SINCE YOU BOUGHT THE PAPER, YOU'VE SINCE BOUGHT THE CORRALES COMMENT, THE SANDOVAL SIGNPOST, AND THE EDGEWOOD INDEPENDENT.

NEWSPAPER OWNERSHIP FOR AT LEAST THE LAST 15 YEARS HAS BEEN A BRUTAL BUSINESS, AND A TERRIBLE BUSINESS MODEL, FRANKLY.

>> Davis: IT IS.

>> Jeff: HOW IS IT GOING FOR YOU?

ARE YOU MAKING MONEY?

DO YOU CARE TO MAKE MONEY?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

>> Davis: I DO CARE.

I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE MONEY.

BUT I WILL SAY THAT TRANSITION FROM COP WHO COULD SORT OF SPEAK BOTH SIDES IN THE CANNABIS CONVERSATION ABOUT LEGALIZATION, TO CANNABIS CONSULTANT -- AND I'VE BEEN VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT THIS -- THE MONEY THAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE HELPING OTHER FOLKS HELP THEIR CANNABIS BUSINESS HAS GONE INTO NEWSPAPERS.

SO I'M STILL A CITY COUNCILOR.

THAT'S MY SALARY, THAT'S MY HEALTH CARE.

I PUT THAT INTO THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, AND HERE'S WHY.

NEXTDOOR IS NOT A GOOD SUBSTITUTE FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL CITY COUNCIL COLUMN.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS OFF LINE.

>> Jeff: IT'S NOT?

>> Davis: IT TURNS OUT IT'S NOT.

THERE ARE SOME BLOGGERS IN TOWN WHO DO, LIKE, THREE-QUARTERS OF A GOOD JOB OF EXPLAINING AN ISSUE, AND THEN KIND OF GO OFF THE RAILS AND GET PEOPLE ALL DISTRACTED ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S IN THEIR AGENDA.

LOOK, WHEN I'M A CITY COUNCILOR SITTING THERE AT MIDNIGHT IN THE BASEMENT OF CITY HALL, IT HONESTLY MATTERS IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

AND OUR CITY IS JUST TOO BIG TO EDUCATE EVERYBODY FROM THE DIAS ONE-ON-ONE.

THE SAME GOES FOR A VILLAGE LIKE CORRALES.

IF WE DON'T HAVE THE CORRALES COMMENT FOR THOSE 4000-5000 HOUSEHOLDS IN THAT AREA, NO ONE IS GOING TO COVER THAT.

THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL IS NOT GOING TO PUT A PERSON THERE JUST TO COVER THOSE ISSUES.

AND SO, LIKE, THEY LOSE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN DEMOCRACY.

AND THOSE ARE THE FUN PAPERS.

THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE THE COOL STORIES.

THOSE ARE WHERE THE REALLY STRANGE THINGS HAPPEN, IN NEW MEXICO SMALL TOWNS.

SO I HAVE THIS SORT OF ROMANTIC VIEW THAT IF WE CAN JUST KEEP THOSE PAPERS ALIVE, AND AT LEAST KEEP ONE PERSON GOING TO ALL THOSE LITTLE CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS AND COUNTY COMMISSION MEETINGS AND SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS, AND JUST EDUCATING PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COMMUNITY, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO ENGAGE, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO SHOW UP, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO PARTICIPATE.

AND FROM THAT, WE'LL HELP EVERYBODY ELSE, TOO.

>> Jeff: THE WELL INFORMED ELECTORATE MAKES A BETTER DECISION AT THE BALLOT BOX.

>> Davis: ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'RE GOING TO SHOW UP ANYWAY, AND RIGHT NOW IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY IS VOTING AGAINST SOMETHING.

LIKE, LET'S AT LEAST GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO TRY TO VOTE FOR, OR AT LEAST UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE VOTING ABOUT.

I THINK THOSE THINGS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND SO THE BUSINESS MODEL GOES, HEY, ALL THESE THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO STAND ALONE ON THEIR OWN, CLEARLY.

THE SIGNPOST, FOR EXAMPLE, DID A GREAT JOB.

IT WAS A PROFITABLE PAPER WHEN WE INHERITED IT.

SO WAS THE COMMENT, IT WAS DOING VERY WELL.

BUT IT DIDN'T HAVE A LONG-TERM STRATEGY.

ALL OF THESE PAPERS, BY THE WAY, HAVE BEEN PRINT, INCLUDING THE OLD ALIBI, MOSTLY, HAD BEEN PRINT WITH VERY LITTLE DIGITAL, HAD NOT GOTTEN TO THE 21st CENTURY.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO BRING, IS WE'RE BRINGING A SHARED WEB PLATFORM.

EVERYBODY USES THE SAME SYSTEM, SHARED EMAIL SYSTEMS.

THAT LOWERS COST, RIGHT.

INSTEAD OF PAYING FIVE EMAIL BILLS, YOU PAY ONE.

YOU PAID FIVE WEB BILLS, YOU PAY ONE.

WE SHARE DESIGNERS.

SO EACH OF THEM HAD, LIKE, A FREELANCE, PART-TIME DESIGNER, ONCE A WEEK OR WHENEVER THEY PUT OUT A PAPER.

NOW I HAVE TWO FULL-TIME DESIGNS WITH BENEFITS, BECAUSE I HAVE ENOUGH WORK.

>> Jeff: HOW MANY JOURNALISTS TOTAL AT THOSE FOUR PAPERS?

>> Davis: FULL-TIME JOURNALISTS, WE HAVE SIX.

WE HAVE 14 FREELANCERS THAT REGULARLY CONTRIBUTE, AND WE HAVE ANOTHER SIX BACK-END FOLKS THAT ARE FULL-TIME.

SALES, PRODUCTION, ETC.

THEY ALL GET BENEFITS, THEY ALL GET PAID REALLY WELL NOW, BECAUSE WE CAN SHARE THEIR TIME AMONGST A BUNCH OF FOLKS.

>> Jeff: AND YOU'RE PICKING UP STORIES FROM SOME OF THE NONPROFITS, I'VE NOTICED, AS WELL, WHETHER IT'S SOURCE NEW MEXICO OR NEW MEXICO IN-DEPTH OR OTHERS, THEY'RE APPEARING, AS WELL.

I WANT TO ASK ABOUT MEDIA CONSOLIDATION.

THAT'S BEEN A HOT TOPIC SINCE BEFORE I WAS A REPORTER.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS SOME RISK IN SORT OF HOMOGENIZING THE FLOW OF INFORMATION, WHETHER IT'S YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE WHO OWNS FOUR DIFFERENT NEWSPAPERS, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE RISK IS THERE, AND HOW IS THE JUICE WORTH THE SQUEEZE?

>> Davis: WE SEE WHAT GANNETT DOES RIGHT?

THEY COME IN, THEY'VE GOTTEN RID OF THE NEWSROOMS, AND THEN THEY SELL OFF THE NICE PIECES AND THEN THEY SELL OFF THE MASTHEAD, RIGHT?

WE'RE TRYING TO UNDUE THAT BY PUTTING LOCAL PEOPLE BACK INTO THESE COMMUNITIES.

WE HIRED GLEN ROSALES, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO HAS A LONG HISTORY OF WRITING FOR THE JOURNAL JUST TO COVER THE EDGEWOOD INDEPENDENT.

TERRY LAST, T.S.

LAST, FROM THE JOURNAL NORTH NOW LIVES IN SANDOVAL COUNTY.

HE'S THE EDITOR UP THERE NOW AND FOR OUR PAPERS THERE.

WE'RE TRYING TO BE SURE WE REFOCUS ON THAT AND GET AWAY FROM SYNDICATION, TO GET AWAY FROM SOME OF THOSE PIECES.

BUT I WILL SAY, WHAT YOU MENTIONED IS EXACTLY WHERE I THINK THIS MODEL GOES.

I THINK IT'S OUR JOB AS THE LOCAL NEWSPAPER TO COVER THE LOCAL STUFF.

WE'RE NOW SEGMENTING OUT, AND ALL OF THOSE NONPROFITS, LIKE SEARCHLIGHT, ARE GOING TO COVER THOSE IN-DEPTH ISSUES, AND WE'LL PICK THAT UP.

WE'LL GIVE THEM READERSHIP FOR THEIR MISSION, AND IT HELPS ME FILL NEWS PAGES AND GET MORE EYES ON OUR ISSUES.

SO IN A 12-16 PAGE PAPER, I MIGHT HAVE A THIRD OF IT BE LOCAL STUFF THAT WE CREATE, A THIRD COMES FROM OUR PARTNERS WHO DO INVESTIGATIVE LONG FORM STUFF, AND A THIRD IS THE CLASSIFIEDS AND ALL THOSE COOL THINGS THAT GO -- YOU KNOW, THE LITTLE WIDGETS THAT GO IN THE BACK OF THE PAPER.

AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE NEWS CYCLE FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

I'D LOVE TO HAVE AN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER AT ALL FIVE PAPERS, BUT I DON'T NEED ONE IF SEARCHLIGHT IS DOING ITS JOB.

>> Jeff: AND YOU'VE GOT A WAY TO PUT SEARCHLIGHT STORIES IN FRONT OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE SEE THEM.

I'M SORT OF HEARING THAT AS PART OF YOUR MODEL.

I WANT TO CLOSE BY TALKING SOME -- THIS IS A QUESTION I'M GOING TO BE ASKING EVERYBODY FOR THIS SHOW THAT WE'RE MAKING.

WHAT IS THE STATE OF THE MEDIA ECOSYSTEM IN NEW MEXICO RIGHT NOW?

ARE WE ALL COMPLETELY SCREWED, OR DOES THIS STILL MATTER?

>> Davis: IT TOTALLY MATTERS, AND HERE'S HOW I KNOW IT MATTERS.

LIKE I SAID, DURING COVID WHEN WE DECIDED JUST TO GIVE AWAY THE NEWS TO GET EYES ON READERS, WE GOT MORE THAN 50,000 E-MAIL SUBSCRIBERS.

THAT'S THE SECOND LARGEST EMAIL LIST IN THE STATE BEHIND THE JOURNAL.

WE INFLUENCE MORE PEOPLE EVERY MORNING AND EVERY FRIDAY WHEN OUR NEWS COMES OUT IN OUR LOCALS THAN ANY OTHER NEWSPAPER GROUP IN THE STATE EXCEPT THE JOURNAL.

THAT SAYS AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WANT MORE NEWS.

AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT LOOKING AT THE STORIES THEY WANT TO COVER, WHEN WE WATCH THE DATA REALLY CLOSELY, EVERYBODY CLICKS THE LOCAL STORY FIRST.

EVERYBODY CLICKS THE LOCAL STORY, BUT THEY SPEND MORE EYES ON THOSE LONG-FORM STATE WIDE STORIES.

THEY'RE LONGER STORIES, BUT THEY'RE SPENDING MORE TIME WITH THEM.

WHAT IT TELLS ME IS, THERE'S STILL A CLASS OF FOLKS WHO REALLY, REALLY CARE.

BUT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN CORRALES OR BERNALILLO OR EDGEWOOD OR MORIARTY, A LOT OF OUR COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION ANYMORE.

AND SO, WHERE DO YOU GO?

VERY MUCH FOLKS DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN SANTA FE UNLESS THEY'RE IN SESSION.

AND IT'S HARD ONCE YOU LOSE A READER.

SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET BACK TO THIS MODEL OF FIGURING OUT A MODEL -- AND NICK DOWN IN SILVER CITY IS DOING A GREAT JOB -- OF WHAT'S WORKING WELL, CONSOLIDATING THE BACK-END.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO LOOK FOR CO-OPS, OPPORTUNITIES LIKE SHARING PRINTING COSTS AND DESIGN COSTS AMONGST THESE SMALL PAPERS.

>> Jeff: TYING THE BOATS TOGETHER, IF YOU WILL.

>> Davis: YEAH, IT'S TOTALLY GOING TO DO THAT UNTIL WE GET THIS RIGHT.

BUT I'LL TELL YOU NOW, NOT EVERY WEEK EVERY PAPER MAKES MONEY, AND SO SOMETIMES ONE SUBSIDIZES THE OTHER.

AND IF YOU CARE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY WHAT USED TO BE $20 A YEAR FOR YOUR SUBSCRIPTION, IT'S GOING TO COST $50 OR $60 TO SUPPORT LOCAL JOURNALISM.

BUT I THINK IT MATTERS.

>> Jeff: SO THE ECOSYSTEM IS NOT JUST US SITING AROUND TALKING TO EACH OTHER ABOUT EACH OTHER, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO THIS STILL MATTERS FOR, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

>> Davis: THERE ARE TOTALLY ENOUGH PEOPLE IN NEW MEXICO TO MAKE THIS WORK, AND THERE ARE TOTALLY ENOUGH PEOPLE IN EVERY TOWN NEW MEXICO TO MAKE THIS WORK.

IT'S JUST HOW BIG YOU MAKE IT.

THE INDEPENDENT WORKS.

4000 SQUARE MILES IN FOUR COUNTIES.

BUT YOU PUT ENOUGH OF THOSE PEOPLE TOGETHER AND THERE ARE ENOUGH EYES.

BUT THEY HAVE TO SUPPORT IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT YOU CAN JUST GET IT ONLINE ON FACEBOOK OR FREE CAN'T FOREVER BE OUR MODEL.

>> Jeff: PAT DAVIS, THANKS FOR COMING DOWN TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION.

>> Gene: I WANT TO WELCOME IN ONE LAST SPECIAL PANEL AS WE CONTINUE OUR ASSESSMENT OF THE JOURNALISM ECOSYSTEM HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE KNOW NEW MEXICO HAS A RICH CULTURAL FABRIC, BUT NARRATIVES, LIKE A TRI-CULTURAL MYTH, HAVE SOMETIMES MEANT THAT STORIES AND VOICES FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY GET LEFT OUT.

THAT GOES FOR NEWS AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE.

IT'S SOMETHING WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WITH TWO AFRICAN-AMERICAN JOURNALISTS.

WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO BE JOINED VIRTUALLY TODAY BY ADOLPHE PIERRE-LOUIS, WHO SPENT YEARS WORKING AS A PHOTOJOURNALIST FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL.

AND RON WALLACE, LONG-TIME PUBLISHER FROM THE PERSPECTIVE MAGAZINE HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

NOW, GUYS, WE REALLY WANTED TO GET INTO HOW THE REPORTINGS ON BLACK ISSUES FAIRS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO POLICY AND DECISION-MAKING.

BUT LET ME START WITH SOME BACKGROUND ON EACH OF YOU AND THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE.

PHOTOJOURNALISM IS A TERM WE SORT OF TAKE FOR GRANTED IN OUR COLLECTIVE UNDERSTANDING.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT EXACTLY IS PHOTOJOURNALISM, IN QUOTES THERE, TO YOU, AND WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES DOES THAT CARRY AS A PHOTOJOURNALIST?

>> Pierre-Louis: WELL, AS A PHOTOJOURNALIST, MY JOB HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO TELL STORIES.

I USE MY CAMERAS TO TELL STORIES ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY.

I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE TO LIVE HERE FOR THE LAST 33 YEARS, AND I FEEL THAT A LOT OF TIME, ESPECIALLY THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY HERE IN NEW MEXICO, IS NOT REPRESENTED IN THE MEDIA.

IN TERMS OF PERSONNEL, BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF COVERAGE.

AND I FEEL IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE CANNOT CLAIM TO BE A COMMUNITY NEWSPAPER IF WE DON'T COVER A COMMUNITY.

I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THAT.

>> Gene: IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT A BLACK FOCUSED NEWSPAPER THE WAY TO FILL THOSE GAPS?

>> Pierre-Louis: I BELIEVE SO.

I BELIEVE SO, BECAUSE IT'S MORE TARGETED TOWARD THAT COMMUNITY, AND I FEEL THAT HAVING THAT KIND OF COVERAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>> Gene: RON, IN YOUR YEARS OF PUBLISHING THE PERSPECTIVE, WHAT HAVE YOU FOUND THAT BLACK FOLKS WANT TO READ, BASICALLY?

WHAT'S THE BIGGEST REASON FOLKS PICK UP YOUR PUBLICATION?

>> Wallace: WELL, THE ORIGINAL PERSPECTIVE WAS SO IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE WE GOT THE STORIES THAT NOBODY ELSE WOULD COVER, THAT THE MAJOR NETWORKS DIDN'T SEE AS IMPORTANT.

BUT THEY WERE IMPORTANT FOR OUR COMMUNITY, TO HIGHLIGHT OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, TO HIGHLIGHT THE SENIORS IN OUR COMMUNITY WHEN THINGS ARE HAPPENING.

AND SO THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR ALL OF NEW MEXICO TO GET, BUT IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT WE DIDN'T REMAIN INVISIBLE.

AND FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE TO SEE US AND TO SEE THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS, IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO SEE US ALL THE TIME, NOT JUST EVERY NOW AND THEN.

THEY NEEDED TO SEE US AND KNOW THAT WE WERE DOING THINGS ALL THE TIME.

AND FOR THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO ALSO BE VALUED.

AND SO WHAT I FELT IS THE PERSPECTIVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW THE VALUE OF OUR COMMUNITY WITHOUT HAVING TO CHOOSE BETWEEN, OH, GOODNESS, IS THIS STORY MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT ONE.

>> Gene: RUN, REAL QUICK, YOU'VE BEEN SUCH A STRONG VOICE FOR YEARS ON THE IMPORTANCE OF SHOWCASING YOUNG BLACK ACHIEVEMENT, AND I WANT TO NOTE PARTICULARLY GRADUATION SEASON.

IT'S SORT OF LIKE THE NUMBER ONE PICK-UP OF YOUR PUBLICATION, TO SEE WHO'S DOING WHAT, WHERE.

WHY WAS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU, TO HIGHLIGHT GRADUATION SEASON ESPECIALLY?

>> Wallace: ONE, IT WAS GOOD FOR THE STUDENTS TO HAVE THEIR PICTURES TAKEN AND, YOU KNOW, TO FEEL IMPORTANT ABOUT THE ACCOMPLISHMENT THEY JUST HAD.

SO YEAH, WE WOULD GO AND TAKE PICTURES OF THE BLACK STUDENT GRADUATES AND WE'D CONTRACT WITH APS TO GET THEM THOSE PICTURES AND IN A VIDEO FASHION, BECAUSE IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE STUDENTS TO KNOW THAT, HEY, SOMEBODY'S VERY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT WE DID.

THEY'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT US BEING ABLE TO GRADUATE AND TO GO ON TO OTHER, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL THINGS IN LIFE.

>> Gene: I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED WHY THE LOCAL PAPERS DIDN'T LOOK AT YOU AND PICK UP ON THAT, BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOU, YOU WANT YOUR NEWSPAPER PICKED UP, HIGHLIGHT SOME HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS GRADUATING, YOU'LL GET A LOT OF PAPERS MOVING.

>> Wallace: EXACTLY.

>> Gene: IT'S AN AMAZING THING.

ADOLPHE, LET ME GO BACK TO SOMETHING SERIOUS HERE IN YOUR LIFE, OF COURSE, WHICH WAS IN 2011, A NEW MEXICO STATE POLICE OFFICER ILLEGALLY PULLED YOU OVER, HELD YOU AT GUNPOINT, MADE YOU SIT ON YOUR KNEES WITH HANDCUFFS BEHIND YOUR BACK, WHILE TRAFFIC WAS GOING BY ON THE HIGHWAY.

YOU WERE DRIVING A JOURNAL VEHICLE.

YOU WERE WEARING YOUR PRESS CREDENTIALS WHILE THIS ALL HAPPENED.

YOU SETTLED THE CASE YEARS LATER, OF COURSE, AND AS A PART OF THAT, THE JUDGE ORDERED THAT YOU BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK TO POLICE CADETS ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE, AND YOU'VE BEEN ONE OF THE FEW VERY LONG-TIME BLACK JOURNALISTS IN THE STATE FOR YEARS.

HOW DID THAT ILLEGAL TRAFFIC STOP INFORM YOUR EXPERIENCE HERE?

>> Pierre-Louis: WELL, I'D DEAL WITH POLICE ALL THE TIME WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR THE JOURNAL, BECAUSE I SHOW UP AT A CRIME SCENE, I NEED TO GET INFORMATION, SO I HAD TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO A PIO OR THE POLICE CHIEF AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING ON.

AND THAT EXPERIENCE HASN'T CHANGED MY VIEW OF POLICE, BUT IT ALSO TAUGHT ME A VALUABLE LESSON, THAT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT OFFICERS NOT ONLY LEARN HOW TO USE DISCRETION, BUT ALSO THEY HAVE TO DO THEIR JOB, WHICH IS TO FIGURE OUT A DESCRIPTION OF A SUBJECT BEFORE EMBARKING ON A CHASE.

AND ME GOING UP TO THE ACADEMY TO TALK THOSE CADETS UP THERE HAS BEEN AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

LAST APRIL, I WENT UP THERE AND I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE UP THERE FOR ABOUT AN HOUR.

I ENDED UP SPENDING ALMOST TWO AND A HALF HOURS TEACHING A CLASS THAT HAD 62 CADETS IN IT, THE LARGEST CLASS EVER.

AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ME TO OPEN THAT CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MEDIA, BUT MORE THAN THAT, THE GENERAL PUBLIC, IN GENERAL.

I MEAN, THIS IS MORE THAN JUST MEDIA, IT'S THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

I GUESS MY VIEW IS THAT I'VE HAD SEVERAL POLICE CHIEFS SINCE THEN APPROACH ME AND THANK ME FOR MAKING ALL THOSE OFFICERS BETTER OFFICERS IN TERMS OF EDUCATING THEM ABOUT UNCONSCIOUS BIAS, ABOUT ATTENTION TO DETAILS, BECAUSE THE GENTLEMAN THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR WAS FIVE FOOT TWO, HISPANIC GUY, BALD, WEARING BLACK BASKETBALL SHORTS AND A WHITE T-SHIRT, AND THAT DID NOT MATCH MY DESCRIPTION WHATSOEVER.

>> Gene: NOT EVEN CLOSE.

>> Pierre-Louis: SO WHAT I TEACH THEM, WHEN I GO UP TO SANTA FE AT THE ACADEMY TO TEACH THOSE OFFICERS, I TELL THEM, MAKE SURE YOU TAKE NOTES, MAKE SURE YOU ASK SPECIFIC QUESTIONS BEFORE TAKING OFF AND EMBARKING ON A CHASE, AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.

YOU CAN'T JUST GO BY A MAKE AND COLOR OF A CAR, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU ASK, WELL, THE SUBJECT THAT I'M LOOKING FOR, WHAT'S HIS RACE?

HOW OLD IS HE?

WHAT IS HE WEARING?

DOES HE HAVE ANY TATTOOS?

DOES HE HAVE ANY PARTICULAR SIGN ON HIS BODY THAT I NEED TO BE LOOKING FOR?

SO ALL THOSE IMPORTANT DETAILS THAT IN MY CASE WERE COMPLETELY MISSED.

AND I FEEL THAT -- AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT MAKES IT MORE REWARDING IS TO GET THE REACTION FROM THOSE CADETS UP THERE, FROM THOSE POLICE OFFICERS WHEN I GO UP THERE TO TALK TO THEM, BECAUSE THEY REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE THE JOB THAT I'VE BEEN DOING WITH THEM, TEACHING THEM HOW TO DO THEIR JOB, BASICALLY.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

LAST QUESTION FOR THE BOTH OF YOU.

I WANT TO STAY WITH YOU, ADOLPHE, FOR THIS ONE.

WHAT CAN BLACK JOURNALISTS HERE DO BETTER TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF BLACK NEW MEXICANS?

>> Pierre-Louis: OFFER MORE COVERAGE.

WE LIVE IN A COMMUNITY WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF STORIES HAPPENING, AND AS A PHOTOJOURNALIST, I NEVER WANT TO GO DOWN TO THE SOUTH VALLEY WHEN THERE'S A HOMICIDE.

IF THERE'S SOMETHING POSITIVE HAPPENING IN A COMMUNITY, THAT'S OUR DUTY TO GO OUT THERE AND COVER IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS VERY FORTUNATE THAT I STARTED MY CAREER AT THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS IN NEW YORK, AND I GOT TO WORK WITH JIMMY BRESLIN, MIKE LUPICA, BOB HERBERT.

AND THOSE GUYS, THEY WERE PERSONAL FRIENDS OF MINE.

I GOT TO SIT DOWN AND TALK TO THEM.

JIMMY BRESLIN ALWAYS TELL ME, ADOLPHE, YOU'RE A YOUNG JOURNALIST, IF YOU WANT TO REALLY GET A STORY, GO ON SITE.

GET TO SMELL WHAT YOUR SUBJECT IS SMELLING, GET TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE SEEING, GET TO EXPERIENCE WHAT CONDITIONS THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN, BECAUSE THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO TELL A BETTER STORY ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO INFORM YOUR READERS OF.

AND THAT, IN ITSELF, HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY MOTTO.

GOOD COVERAGE.

COVERAGE, COVERAGE.

OFFER MORE COVERAGE.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO ME, IT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE THAT SOMETHING CAN BE HAPPENING RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND INSTEAD OF HAVING THE JOURNAL COVER IT, WE HAVE AP COVERING IT.

IT'S NOTHING THAT IMPOSSIBLE.

I MEAN, WE ARE A LOCAL NEWSPAPER, WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON COVERING THE COMMUNITY.

AND THE SAME GOES FOR THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

IF THERE'S SOMETHING HAPPENING, THAT NEEDS COVERAGE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT WHEN SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS THAT YOU SHOW UP AND YOU WANT TO COVER THAT COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE POSITIVE THINGS HAPPENING, AS JOURNALISTS IT'S OUR DUTY TO COVER THAT, TOO.

>> Gene: GOOD POINTS THERE.

RON, SAME QUESTION TO YOU.

WHAT CAN WE, AS BLACK JOURNALISTS, WHAT CAN WE BE DOING BETTER?

BUT ALSO, TECH AND ONLINE, THE INTERNET, WHAT'S YOUR SENSE OF THAT AND HOW THAT CAN HELP IN THIS ENDEAVOR?

>> Wallace: YEAH, GENE, THAT'S WHERE WE WERE LEANING TO, WAS GETTING EVERYTHING ELECTRONICALLY AS WELL AS THE PHYSICAL EXISTENCE WHEN WE DID THE MAGAZINE, JUST SO WE WERE DOCUMENTED, AND SO PEOPLE CAN KEEP THOSE.

AND I GOT THAT IDEA FROM TALKING TO A PUBLISHER FROM JET MAGAZINE.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW THE MAGAZINE WOULD ALWAYS, FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS, THEY'D PUT THEM ON THEIR COFFEE TABLE, THEY'D KEEP THEM AS KEEPSAKES.

SO THAT WAS WHY THE PUBLISHING OF THE PERSPECTIVE MAGAZINE WAS SO IMPORTANT, AND THAT WAS WHY THE PRESENTATION WE PUT OUT WAS SO IMPORTANT.

WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS SOMETHING PEOPLE WERE PROUD OF AND THAT THEY WOULD KEEP, AND WE KNEW THAT IF WE REMAINED PAPER, THAT WOULD GO AWAY.

THAT'S WHY WE WENT TO THE GLOSSY, WE WENT TO THE MAGAZINE, AND WE HAD SEVERAL DIFFERENT MAGAZINE LOOKS, TRYING TO GET THE ONE THAT WE WANTED OUR COMMUNITY -- TO MAKE SURE OUR COMMUNITY WAS PROUD OF THE PRESENTATION.

IT'S A PRIVILEGE AND A BLESSING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE THINGS THAT WE DO THAT TELL ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY, AND LIKE I SAID, YOU GUYS ARE SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU HAVE SPOTS THAT GET -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE OUT THERE AND YOU'RE COVERING OUR COMMUNITY, AS WELL, IN DIFFERENT VENUES, DIFFERENT STATIONS, DIFFERENT THINGS THAT NOW EVERYBODY IS GETTING IT.

AND SO IT WAS A PLEASURE FOR ME TO SAY, HEY, I KNOW WE'RE GETTING THEM OUT THERE WITH THE PEOPLE ALREADY ON TV.

GENE, ADOLPHE, TIA.

AND YOU KNOW, IT'S GOOD TO ALREADY HAVE A TEAM ALREADY OUT THERE, THAT'S ALREADY IN POSITION, AND THEN I COULD JUST FOCUS ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND JUST PICK UP THE STORIES THAT I NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE GOT OUT THERE FOR OUR COMMUNITY TO MAKE THE VALUE, MAKE THE FEELING OF THE VALUE, TO KNOW THAT, HEY, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS SO IMPORTANT.

AND YES, WHAT WE'RE DOING, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IT.

>> Gene: I LOVE IT.

>> Wallace: AND IT WON'T GET LOST.

>> Gene: SO AFTER ALL THE INTERVIEWS AND PERSPECTIVES FROM THOSE INSIDE THE FOURTH ESTATE, AND THOSE WHO WATCH IT, WHAT CAN WE CONCLUDE ABOUT MEDIA AND HOW OUR WORK IS SITTING WITH THE COMMUNITY?

NOW, FROM THIS SEAT, IT ALL LOOKS RATHER AMAZING.

WHEN I THINK ON THE LEVEL OF TALENT DISPLAYED OVER THE LAST TWO WEEKS IN THIS STUDIO AND VIA ZOOM, IT'S HARD TO ARGUE THAT WE MAY BE IN SOME SORT OF GOLDEN ERA OF NEWS COVERAGE IN THE STATE CURRENTLY.

I HONESTLY CAN'T THINK OF A TIME PERIOD WHERE WE HAVE ENJOYED SO MANY PASSIONATE, COMMITTED REPORTERS ON THE STREET.

AND AGAIN.

WHEN I SAY THE STREET, I MEAN STATE WIDE.

IT'S RATHER AMAZING.

BUT THAT'S ME.

IT'S EASY TO BOOST AND SUPPORT MY PRESS PEERS FROM INSIDE THIS STUDIO, BUT IT'S THE OTHER END OF THE CAMERA WHO GETS THE LAST CALL, ISN'T IT?

NOW, IT'S A RELATIONSHIP FOR ALL CONCERNED.

THE CONVO HAS TO GO TWO WAYS TO GET GOOD NEWS COVERAGE.

IT'S FOOLHARDY AND NONPRODUCTIVE FOR US TO JUDGE OURSELVES ON OUR VALUE AND WORTH TO THE NEWS CONSUMER, SO THAT FEEDBACK LOOP I'M TALKING ABOUT, THAT FINAL WORD FROM THE VIEWER, THE READER OR THE LISTENER, IS THE ONLY WORD THAT COUNTS.

YES, WE MAY HAVE IT GOOD RIGHT NOW, BUT THINGS CAN ALWAYS GET BETTER, BUT ONLY, ONLY IF THAT FEEDBACK LOOP IS TIMELY, VIGOROUS AND PRODUCTIVE.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, NEWSGATHERING IS SOMEWHAT OF A TEAM EFFORT, AND YOU'RE ON IT.

AGAIN, OUR THANKS TO ALL THE JOURNALISTS STATE WIDE AND THOSE WHO WATCH THEM.

LET US KNOW WHERE YOU THINK THE STATE OF JOURNALISM IS IN NEW MEXICO CURRENTLY.

WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US, AND FOR STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO In FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.