- TONIGHT ON LOVE AND RESPECT WITH GEORGIA ONCE AGAIN AT THE CENTER OF AMERICAN POLITICS, A LOOK AT THE KEY RACES THIS YEAR WITH POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, ANDRA GILLESPIE.

SO THAT NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AIN'T GONNA HELP GET HERSCHEL OVER THE HUMP.

- NO, NO, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S HELPING HIM WIN THIS PRIMARY.

- OKAY.

- BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS GONNA BE A VERY CLOSE ELECTION, I WON'T PREDICT THE OUTCOME BECAUSE I CAN'T PREDICT THE OUTCOME OF THE GENERAL ELECTION.

- [MIKE] SO YOU DO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE?

- I THINK GEORGIA POLITICS ARE CLOSE.

- EMORY PROFESSOR, ANDRA GILLESPIE COMING UP RIGHT NOW.

- [ANNOUNCER] "LOVE & RESPECT" WITH KILLER MIKE IS MADE POSSIBLE BY... - REGINA APPROACHES THE ALL-ELECTRIC CADILLAC LYRIQ.

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♪♪ - WELCOME TO LOVE AND RESPECT, PROFESSOR ANDRA GILLESPIE, I AM SO HONORED TO HAVE YOU HERE.

- I'M HONORED TO BE HERE.

- YOU'RE ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE EMORY UNIVERSITY EVEN COOLER.

- THANK YOU.

- SO, AND I JUST WANT TO TELL THE AUDIENCE OUT THERE, ME AS A GUY WENT TO MOREHOUSE, PROFESSOR AT EMORY, WE HAVE FOUR DEGREES BETWEEN US.

YOU HAVE THEM ALL.

(BOTH LAUGHS) - THANK YOU.

- SINCE 2020 GEORGIA HAS BECOME AN EPICENTER OF SORTS, OF POLITICS IN THIS NATION.

WE ALMOST ELECTED A BLACK WOMAN AS A GOVERNOR, SHE CAME UP A FEW VOTE VOTES, SHY, HAVE A GUY THERE, BRIAN KEMP NOW, WHO'S A MORE MODERATE REPUBLICAN THAN SOME OF THE ONES WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST.

SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH, IN TERMS OF GOVERNORS OR PEOPLE WHO HELD OFFICE HERE, I EXPECTED LIKE TOTALITARIAN SHUTDOWN OF ALL THINGS PROGRESSIVE DIDN'T REALLY HAPPEN, SO IT MADE ME WONDER LIKE, WHAT'S NEXT FOR GEORGIA.

- GEORGIA HAS BECOME AN INCREASINGLY COMPETITIVE STATE, PEOPLE DIDN'T START TO NOTICE UNTIL 2018 AND 2020, BUT REALLY WHAT THOSE ARE, ARE THE LATEST DATA POINTS AND A LONG LINE OF ELECTION RESULTS THAT SUGGEST THAT OVER THE LAST DECADE, GEORGIA HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY MORE COMPETITIVE BETWEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

AND THE REASON WHY THIS HAS HAPPENED IS FOR TWO FACTORS, ONE GEORGIA IS A RACIALLY AND ETHNICALLY DIVERSE STATE AND IT'S BECOME INCREASINGLY SO IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

SO IF WE LOOK AT THE FIRST DECADE OF THE, OF THE 21ST CENTURY, WE SEE EVIDENCE OF REVERSE MIGRATION.

SO AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO MAY HAVE MOVED NORTH OR WEST, PARTICULARLY NORTH, SINCE WE'RE ON THE EAST COAST, COMING BACK TO GEORGIA, ATLANTA IS VIEWED AS THE BLACK MECCA, A PLACE WHERE MIDDLE CLASS BLACK PROFESSIONALS CAN THRIVE.

SO THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, WIN THEIR FORTUNES HERE.

IN ADDITION TO THAT IN THE LAST DECADE, WE'VE SEEN AN INCREASE AND THIS IS TRUE IN TERMS OF OUR POPULATION, BUT IT'S ALSO TRUE IN TERMS OF THE NUMBER OF REGISTERED VOTERS OF A LARGE LATINX AND ASIAN AMERICAN POPULATION.

SO THE PROPORTION OF GEORGIA VOTERS WHO ARE ASIAN AMERICAN OR HISPANIC HAS ACTUALLY DOUBLED BASICALLY.

- WOW - IN THE LAST DECADE.

AND SO THAT MAKES US LOOK DIFFERENT FROM MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA AND LOUISIANA.

SO STATES THAT ALSO HAVE LARGE AFRICAN AMERICAN POPULATIONS, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THAT SAME TYPE OF MULTICULTURAL DIVERSITY.

FROM PEOPLE WHO AREN'T NECESSARILY WHITE OR BLACK.

AND SO THAT COUPLED WITH A LARGE ENOUGH LIBERAL WHITE POPULATION, IT'S MAKING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MORE COMPETITIVE.

THE OTHER THING THAT'S HAPPENED IS, IS THAT YOU COULD HAVE BODIES AND YOU COULD ASSUME FOR NOW THAT THOSE BODIES ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE DEMOCRATIC THAN REPUBLICAN, BUT THEY HAVE TO TURN OUT TO VOTE.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, USUALLY DON'T GET TARGETED WITH THE TYPES OF CAMPAIGNS AND MOBILIZATION PLEAS THAT WILL INCREASE THEIR LIKELIHOOD OF TURNING OUT TO VOTE, IT'S WHY VOTER TURNOUT RATES AND COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, HAVE TYPICALLY LAGGED WHITE VOTER TURNOUT RATES.

IN ADDITION TO OTHER STRUCTURAL FACTORS, WHAT WE'VE SEEN HAPPEN IS THAT THERE IS CONCERTED, MOBILIZATION BY GROUPS WHO MIGHT BE NON-PARTISAN, BUT MAY BE VIEWED AS BEING SYMPATHETIC TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND A MORE CONCERTED EFFORT BY THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF GEORGIA TO GO REACH VOTERS WHO ARE LIKELY DEMOCRATS, BUT MAY NOT NECESSARILY TURN OUT TO VOTE, MAY NOT HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED TO VOTE, AND THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THEM TO TURN OUT TO VOTE.

SO WE COULD THINK ABOUT THE WORK THAT THE PARTY HAS DONE, BUT WE COULD ALSO THINK ABOUT THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE OUTSIDE OF THE PARTY WITH GROUPS LIKE THE NEW GEORGIA PROJECT, GEORGIA COALITION FOR THE PEOPLE'S AGENDA, BLACK VOTERS MATTER, AND THESE GROUPS LED OFTEN BY BLACK WOMEN.

SO IF WE THINK OF PEOPLE LIKE STACEY ABRAMS, BUT WE CAN'T FORGET PEOPLE LIKE HELEN BUTLER'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR DECADES OR LATOSHA BROWN, THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A REALLY LONG TIME AND IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE IT WAS PAYING OFF IN 2013 OR 2014, BUT IT STARTED TO LOOK LIKE IT WAS BEARING FRUIT IN 2018, WHEN STACEY ABRAMS COMES WITHIN 55,000 VOTES OF WINNING THE GEORGIA GUBERNATORIAL RACE.

AND IT PAID OFF IN 2020 WITH THE RESULTS THAT WE SAW IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, AND THEN ALSO IN THE RUNOFF ELECTION FOR THE U.S. SENATE.

- WHEN WE SAY PAID OFF, WE ARE SAYING PAID OFF FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

- YES - THEY GOT THE WINS, IS IT PAYING OFF FOR BLACK PEOPLE?

- INCREASED ATTENTION ON MOBILIZATION, I THINK IS A NET POSITIVE.

AND I THINK WE'RE AT A MOMENT WHERE YOUNG ACTIVISTS ARE DEMANDING ATTENTION FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

THERE'S THIS THING THAT WE TALK ABOUT IN POLITICAL SCIENCE CALLED DEMOCRATIC ELECTORAL CAPTURE.

IT WAS A TERM COINED BY PAUL FRYMER AT PRINCETON UNIVERSITY THAT LOOKED AT THE FACT THAT IDEOLOGICALLY SPEAKING, THE DEMOCRATIC AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WERE MAKING CERTAIN APPEALS TO RACE.

THE STARTING IN THE MID 1960S, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY STARTED TO CHANGE ITS STANCE ON CIVIL RIGHTS AND RACIAL ISSUES AND BECOME MORE PROGRESSIVE ON CIVIL RIGHTS AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHICH ACTUALLY HAD BEEN SOMEWHAT PROGRESSIVE ON RACIAL ISSUES STARTED TO TURN TOWARDS THE SOUTHERN STRATEGY, STARTED TO TURN TOWARDS MAKING RACIST APPEALS TO WHITE.

AND SO THEY WERE ABLE TO WIN OVER SOUTHERN SEGREGATIONIST WHO HAD FORMALLY BEEN DEMOCRATIC, AND THOSE FOLKS STARTED TO VOTE FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND WE'VE SEEN IN, IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, OF COURSE, DONALD TRUMP DOUBLED DOWN ON OVERTLY RACIST APPEALS THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY THOUGHT WEREN'T GONNA BE EFFECTIVE ANYMORE.

AND SO ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE CREATED THIS PERCEPTUAL GULF BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATIC AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTIES IN TERMS OF WHICH PARTY IS THE BETTER PARTY ON CIVIL RIGHTS THAT PERSISTS TO THIS DAY.

IT IS THE REASON WHY BLACKS, REGARDLESS OF IDEOLOGY ARE STILL MUCH MORE LIKELY TO IDENTIFY AND VOTE AS DEMOCRATS THAN AS REPUBLICAN, BECAUSE ONE PARTY IS VIEWED AS BEING SYMPATHETIC TO RACIAL INTEREST.

AND THE OTHER PARTY IS NOT VIEWED AS BEING SYMPATHETIC TOWARDS RACIAL INTEREST AT ALL.

- SO LEMME ASK YOU ABOUT A MEMBER OF THE GROUPS SAID, WE DON'T OFTEN HEAR ABOUT, BUT THEY ARE A PART OF THE 90% AND HIGHER VOTING RATE OUT OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN, AS I WATCH THE RACES THAT ARE GOING ON IN GEORGIA NOW, I SEE VERNON JONES, FORMER DEMOCRAT, AND WAS A SOLID DEMOCRAT WHEN HE WAS OUT IN DEKALB COUNTY, IN TERMS OF GETTING PEOPLE CONTRACTS IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE THAT CITIZENS WERE HEARD ON A STATE LEVEL FROM THAT COUNTY HAS SINCE SWITCHED TO REPUBLICANS, HE IS A PERSON NOW THAT WAS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, DROPPED OUT OF THAT RACE AND THEN PIVOT IT TOWARD PERDUE, FEELS LIKE HE WAS COERCED OR ASKED TO DO SO.

AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND POLITICS, SO IF YOU CAN BRING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF BLACK MEN TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT'S DEFINITELY GONNA EMPOWER YOU.

BUT AS I TRAVEL THROUGH GEORGIA, THROUGH NORTH GEORGIA, SOUTHEAST GEORGIA, SOUTHWEST GEORGIA, I'M HEARING MORE BLACK MEN SAY, I FEEL LEFT OUT.

NOBODY CARES WHAT I HAVE TO SAY, I VOTED DEMOCRAT, BUT I'M PRO-GUN WHY DO I HAVE TO CHOOSE A CANDIDATE THAT'S NOT PRO-RIFLE?

I HEAR THEM SAY THINGS LIKE, WHY WOULD I WANT TO INVITE A COMPETITIVE WORKFORCE IN?

SO WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT A BUS AT ONE OF THE CHICKEN HOUSES IN NORTH GEORGIA IN 111 IMMIGRANTS ARE MARCHED OUT IN THE NEXT WEEK 114 BLACK PEOPLE SAY, WELL, NOW WE'RE EMPLOYED.

HOW'S THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY GOING TO CONTEND WITH THAT AND FEELING THAT MEN IN THE COMMUNITY, CAUSE YOU GOTTA GET GUYS OUT TO VOTE TOO.

I REMEMBER MY GRANDPARENTS WILL GO TO VOTE TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, BUT THEN NOW AS I GO TO THE POLLS, I DON'T SEE AS MANY OF US, AND I SEE A LOT MORE OF BLACK MEN COMPLAINING, WHAT IS THE MESSAGE THAT DEMOCRATS NEED TO SAY TO THEM?

AND WHAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT REPUBLICANS BECAUSE YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS ARE SMART PEOPLE AND NOT THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T, BUT THEY TEND TO INVOLVE YOUR SELF-INTEREST WITH THEIR CAUSE.

AND THEY'LL SAY, WELL, YOU MIGHT THINK OF RACIST, BUT WE'RE GONNA LET YOU KEEP YOUR RIFLES AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE TO COMPETE WITH AN OUTSIDE WORK WORTH IT.

WHAT'S THE MESSAGE THAT THESE TWO PARTIES HAVE, AND THEN IT'S GONNA LEAD TO THE NEXT QUESTION, 'CAUSE I WANNA ASK YOU ABOUT WARNOCK VERSUS WALKER IN THE FALL, BUT TALK TO BLACK MEN FOR A SECOND.

- SURE, WELL THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK THERE.

- OKAY, LET'S UNPACK IT.

- SO, YOU KNOW, ACKNOWLEDGING THE ROLE THAT BLACK WOMEN HAVE PLAYED IN POLITICS, YOU KNOW, IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND WE'RE TAKING AN INTERSECTIONAL PERSPECTIVE THERE AND WE'RE TRYING TO WRITE WRONGS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE.

PEOPLE OFTEN DON'T THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE CORRETTA SCOTT KING, THE JUANITA ABERNATHY, THE DOROTHY HEIGHT.

- ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

- THE JUANITA LOWIES WHO WERE WALKING RIGHT BESIDE THEIR HUSBANDS IN MANY INSTANCES AND SOMETIMES DOING THIS ON, YOU KNOW, AND ON.

- AND ORGANIZING ON THE GROUND.

- AND ORGANIZING ON THE GROUND, AND SO I THINK THAT THERE STILL IS A LOT OF HISTORY THAT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED THERE.

AND SO BY TALKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF BLACK WOMEN IN PART, THAT IS REFLECTING THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GENDER GAPS, EVEN WITHIN BLACK COMMUNITIES, IN TERMS OF THE PERCENTAGE OF BLACKS WHO ARE VOTING FOR DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

SO BLACK WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS.

BLACK MEN ARE THE SECOND MOST DEMOCRATIC GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT YOU KNOW, FOR STRUCTURAL REASONS, THE IMPORTANCE OF BLACK WOMEN GETS AMPLIFIED BECAUSE OF HISTORIC REASONS, WHY BLACK MEN'S PARTICIPATION HAS BEEN LOWER.

A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH BEING TIED UP IN THE CHRIS CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SO WHEN PEOPLE ARE JUSTICE INVOLVED, THEY CAN'T VOTE, RIGHT, IF YOU'RE NOT QUITE DONE WITH YOUR PROBATION, YOU CAN'T VOTE.

AND SO BECAUSE THIS DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTS BLACK MEN COMPARED TO BLACK WOMEN, 'CAUSE WE KNOW BLACKS IN GENERAL ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE JUSTICE INVOLVED, RIGHT.

THERE TENDS TO BE A GREATER FOCUS ON WHAT BLACK WOMEN ARE DOING.

- SO THAT NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AIN'T GONNA HELP GET HERSCHEL OVER THE HUMP.

- NO, NO, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S HELPING HIM WIN THIS PRIMARY.

- OKAY.

- [ANDRA] BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS GONNA BE A VERY CLOSE ELECTION.

I WON'T PREDICT THE OUTCOME BECAUSE I CAN'T PREDICT THE OUTCOME OF THE GENERAL ELECTION.

- [MIKE] SO YOU DO THINK IT'S GOING TO BE CLOSE.

- I THINK GEORGIA POLITICS ARE CLOSE THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE WHO ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE REPUBLICAN IN THIS RACE.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THIS MARGIN VERY COMFORTABLE, YOU KNOW, 40 TO 50 POINT MARGIN THAT WALKER'S GONNA WIN HIS PRIMARY BY, IS BEING DONE IN AN ELECTORATE.

THAT'S GONNA LOOK VERY DIFFERENT THAN A GENERAL ELECTION ELECTORATE WHERE DEMOCRATS ARE PROBABLY GONNA PUT EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE AND WE'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT ALL OF THESE STATEWIDE RACES BEING DECIDED BY A MARGIN OF FIVE POINT OR LESS.

- AND WE ALSO HAVE, WE THOUGHT PERDUE WAS GOING TO BE A REAL THORN IN THE SIDE OF KEMP, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE KEMP IS LEADING HIM IN THE POLL BY A PRETTY COMFORTABLE AMOUNT AS WELL CORRECT.

- SO-- - WHICH LEADS ME TO OUR NEXT, I WANNA TALK ABOUT THE SHOW OFF BETWEEN ABRAMS TO REMATCH BETWEEN PERDUE AND KEMP.

- SO RIGHT NOW, YEAH, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE DAVID PERDUE HAS BEEN ABLE TO MAKE REALLY SIGNIFICANT HEADWAY IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO CAPITALIZE ON THE FACT THAT DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T LIKE BRIAN KEMP, BECAUSE HE DIDN'T TRY TO CHANGE THE RESULTS OF THE 2020 ELECTION.

- WAS THAT A SHOW OF INTEGRITY?

- WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

- I MEAN, HE DIDN'T COMPLY WAS THAT, AND I ASKED THAT BECAUSE I'M AMONGST THE BLACK CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERALS PRETTY OFTEN.

AND THE BLACK CONSERVATIVES I KNOW, THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON KEMP SUPPORT BECAUSE THEY SAY IT SHOWED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF INTEGRITY THAT HE AND WHAT-- - [ANDRA] BRAD RAFFENSPERGER - [MIKE] YEAH, WOULD NOT FOLD TO TRUMP'S.

- YEAH, I MEAN, I DO THINK THAT IN THIS INSTANCE, THAT RAFFENSPERGER AND KEMP DID THE RIGHT THING AND THEY DID SO VERY COURAGEOUSLY GIVEN THE ONSLAUGHT, OF OPPOSITION AND JUST THE VITRIOL THAT HAS BEEN CAST THEIR WAY AS A RESULT.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- THE DEATH THREATS THAT THEY RECEIVED.

I MEAN, I THINK YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH OTHER THINGS THAT THEY'VE DONE BEFORE AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS WAS IN FACT THE RIGHT MOVE AND THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY A VERY COURAGEOUS MOVE FOR THEM TO STAND UP TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, TO STAND UP TO THEIR OWN PARTY STANDARD BEARER AND SAY, NO, THE SKY ISN'T, YOU KNOW, PINK WITH GREEN POLKADOTS.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- YOU KNOW, THE SKY IS BLUE AND JOE BIDEN WON THE ELECTION IN GEORGIA.

SO I VERY MUCH GIVE THEM, YOU KNOW, CREDIT FOR MAKING THAT DECISION.

- YEAH.

- AND YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE A PERSONAL DECISION TO TRY TO TAKE OUT KEMP AND RAFFENSPERGER WHAT HE MISCALCULATED IS THAT ONE, IT'S NOT THE MOST STRATEGIC MOVE TO CHALLENGE AND INCUMBENT.

SO I THINK THE BIG QUESTION THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE HERE IS WHY WOULD DAVID PERDUE, AN EXPERIENCED POLITICIAN MAKE A MOVE THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY VIEW AS BEING VERY, VERY RISKY?

NOT THAT HE'S THE ONLY, YOU KNOW, POLITICIAN WHO'S HELD OFFICE BEFORE, WHO'S DONE THAT BEFORE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS WISE FOR TED KENNEDY TO TRY TO CHALLENGE JIMMY CARTER IN 1980.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- BUT IN GENERAL, STRATEGIC POLITICIANS DON'T CHALLENGE INCUMBENTS, UNLESS THEY THINK THAT THEY'RE REALLY IN BATTLE.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE RESULTS, OF MAY 24TH IN ORDER TO KNOW FOR SURE WHAT'S GOING ON, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE BRYAN KEMP WAS EMBATTLED ENOUGH.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- FOR THIS TO BE AN ISSUE.

BUT PERDUE GAMBLED THAT HE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE, THE OTHER ISSUE IS I THINK DONALD TRUMP UNDERESTIMATED THE FACT THAT BRYAN KEMP HAS BEEN A POLITICIAN IN THE STATE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

HE IS ONE STATEWIDE OFFICE BEFORE ANYBODY THOUGHT THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS, HE HAS AN ORGANIZATION, HE HAS ALLIES, HE HAS PEOPLE WHO OWE HIM STUFF.

- RIGHT.

- RIGHT AND HE WAS ABLE TO MASTER THAT ORGANIZATION TO COME AGAINST THIS CHALLENGE.

SO EVEN THOUGH DAVID PERDUE HAD, YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE ACE CARD IN TERMS OF HAVING THE PRESIDENT'S ENDORSEMENT, BRIAN KEMP ACTUALLY HOLDS A LOT OF OTHER ACES AND MANY OTHER GOOD CARDS AS WELL, AND SO HE'S USING THAT TO HIS ADVANTAGE.

- YEAH, I'VE BEEN KINDA WATCHING HIS CAMPAIGN.

I FOLLOW HE AND I FOLLOW ABRAMS.

AND YOU KNOW, I WE'LL TALK LATER ABOUT THIS, BUT I'VE BEEN WATCHING THE GEORGIA GANGS SINCE I WAS A KID.

SO I'M ALWAYS INTERESTED IN WHAT BOTH SIDES ARE DOING, AND ONE THING I'VE NOTICED ABOUT HIM IS AS HE MOVES AROUND THE STATE, THE PICTURES ARE DIVERSE.

YOU KNOW, I'M USED TO SEEING TO BE VERY HONEST WITH YOU IN GEORGIA, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, WHEN THEY RUN FOR GUBERNATORIAL RACES, YOU PRETTY MUCH SEE THEM WITH A BUNCH OF WHITE FOLKS IN SOUTH GEORGIA NOW.

AND HIS PICTURES ARE GETTING VERY DIVERSE IN TERMS OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS MORE LIKE THE GEORGIA I KNOW, WHICH IS ABOUT 35% AFRICAN AMERICAN.

AND OF COURSE YOU SAY ASIAN, LATINX POPULATION GROWING UP.

AND I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED TO SEE AN INCUMBENT GOVERNOR, YOU KNOW, GOING OUT AND REACHING OUT TO ALL OF GEORGIA AND NOT JUST TO GEORGIA, THAT'S SUPPOSEDLY LIKES HIM SO, I'M INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT THE WARNOCK AND HERSCHEL WALKER RACE IS GONNA DO, AND I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN THE BIG FIGHT THAT'S COMING UP IN NOVEMBER TO SEE ABRAMS AND KEMP.

I WANNA TALK ABOUT ANOTHER GEORGIA POLITICIAN, MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN AND I WANNA TALK ABOUT THE DATE JANUARY 6TH.

- [ANDRA] OKAY.

- [MIKE] THERE'S SOME PRESSURE TO GET HER NAME REMOVED FROM THE BALLOT BECAUSE OF HER ENDORSEMENT OF OR SUPPORT OF BE IT QUIET OR LOUD OF THAT DAY OF JANUARY 6TH.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HER AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT DAY, IS THAT DAY SIGNIFICANT AS THE MEDIA IS TELLING US, IS THAT DAY GOING TO BE WHAT PUSHES HER OUT OF POLITICS AND OTHERS?

'CAUSE I'M ONLY REALLY TALKING ABOUT GEORGIA RIGHT NOW, SINCE WE ARE A SWING STATE OF SORTS, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW VERSUS THE NATIONAL FOCUS, WHAT AND RIGHT IN OUR HOME STATE AND HOMETOWN NOW HERE, WHAT'S HER FATE POST THIS ELECTION CYCLE YOU THINK?

- WELL, I TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF JANUARY 6TH, JANUARY 6TH WAS VERY SIGNIFICANT.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT OUR DEMOCRACY WAS CHALLENGED, YOU SAW IT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME ON JANUARY 6TH, WHEN YOU SAW PEOPLE STORMING THE CAPITAL, AND WHEN YOU SAW PEOPLE THREATENING TO HANG THE VICE PRESIDENT, RIGHT, IF THEY DIDN'T GET THE RESULTS THAT THEY WANTED.

AND I THINK THE AFTERMATH OF JANUARY 6TH, WHERE WE HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SEEN A NATIONAL COALESCENCE, AROUND FINDING THE TRUTH AND THEN I'M CALLING OUT BAD BEHAVIOR, I THINK IS ALSO VERY TELLING ABOUT THE HEALTH OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

THERE ARE MANY ISSUES KIND OF WITH HER ROLE ON JANUARY 6TH, WHICH I'M GONNA WAIT FOR THE JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, COME OUT AND SORT OF REVEAL MORE THINGS.

WE HAD A TRENCH OF TEXT MESSAGES THAT CAME OUT THIS WEEK, WHERE SHE, YOU KNOW, WAS, YOU KNOW, IN SOME OF THOSE TEXTS, BUT ULTIMATELY AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING THAT SHE WENT THROUGH LAST WEEK, ISN'T GOING TO KICK HER OFF THE BALLOT BECAUSE ALL THE ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE IS GOING TO DO IS MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE WHO IS IN A FIGHT FOR HIS POLITICAL LIFE TO BE RENOMINATED FOR HIS SEAT.

SO HE IS NOT GOING, HE'S NOT GONNA DISQUALIFY GREEN FROM THE BALLOT.

AND SO IN THE SHORT TERM, GREEN IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE SHE GOT AWAY WITH SOMETHING.

SO IT ALREADY LOOKS LIKE SHE GOT AWAY WITH THAT BECAUSE SHE'S A PROLIFIC FUNDRAISER AND SHE RAISES MONEY OFF OF PLAYING THE VICTIM AND SAYING THAT SHE'S BEING EMBATTLED BY THE WOKE, LEFT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, DEMOCRATS, WHOEVER, YOU KNOW, CAN BE HER WHIPPING POE THAT DAY.

WE HAVE SEEN OTHER EXAMPLES OF INCENDIARY, INFLAMMATORY DEMAGOGIC TYPES OF LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE HELD ON THE OFFICE FOR MULTIPLE TERMS.

- YEAH.

- AND SO I THINK PROBABLY A MORE LIKELY SCENARIO IS SHE GETS REELECTED IN 2022.

AND THEN AFTER A FEW CYCLES, ONE, HER CONSTITUENTS GET TIRED, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY FINALLY REALIZE SHE DOESN'T PASS ANY LEGISLATION OR BRING BENEFITS HOME TO THEIR COMMUNITY.

AND THEN THE MORE LIKELY CHALLENGE WHO WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL IS NOT THE DEMOCRATIC CHALLENGERS.

EVEN THOUGH I NOTE THAT SHE DOES ACTUALLY HAVE CHALLENGERS WHO ARE RAISING A LOT OF MONEY AND CHALLENGERS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN NORTH GEORGIA POLITICALLY, AND WOULD BE PERCEIVED AS CREDIBLE, YOU KNOW, CREDIBLE CANDIDATES, AT LEAST IN THIS RACE, BUT THIS IS A DISTRICT THAT'S OVERWHELMINGLY REPUBLICAN.

AND SO WHAT'S LIKELY GONNA HAVE TO HAPPEN IS A STRONG REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER IS GOING TO HAVE TO EMERGE, WHO CAN GIVE HER A RUN FOR HER MONEY IN THE PRIMARIES.

AND THAT'S WHAT EVENTUALLY FORCES HER OUT OF POLITICAL OFFICE.

BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, STEVE KING, WHO WAS THIS VERY INFLAMMATORY CONGRESSMAN FROM IOWA, WHO SAID ALL KINDS OF RACIST THINGS, PARTICULARLY ABOUT IMMIGRANTS, BUT ALSO ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, HELD OFF FOR MULTIPLE TERMS.

SO IT WASN'T LIKE HE WAS A ONE TERM CONGRESSMAN WHO SAID A BUNCH OF CRAZY STUFF AND THEN HAD HIS COMMITTEE.

- YEAH.

- ASSIGNMENTS TAKEN AWAY LIKE HE SERVED FOR, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF YEARS BEFORE THERE WAS ANY DISCIPLINARY ACTION.

- STROM THURMOND DIED IN OFFICE, RIGHT.

- STROM THURMOND, I MEAN IS A MUCH MORE DIFFERENT, COMPLICATED FIGURE SO YES, THIS IS A PERSON WHO RAN ON AN OVERTLY SEGREGATIONIST PLATFORM IN 1948.

(MIKE LAUGHS) AND, YOU KNOW, HELD OFFICE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, FOR DECADES AFTER THAT.

BUT HE WAS ALSO SOMEBODY WHO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK BACK AT HIS LEGISLATIVE RECORD, ACTUALLY GOT THINGS DONE THAT'S DIFFERENT.

I MEAN, WE COULD TALK ABOUT HIS RACE POLITICS AND HOW OPPORTUNISTIC HE WAS, AND I THINK THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNISM WITH MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN, BUT STROM THURMOND ACTUALLY SERVED IN MULTIPLE OFFICES.

SO BOTH AS GOVERNOR SOUTH CAROLINA AND AS A US SENATOR FOR YEARS, DID THINGS HELD LEADERSHIP POSITIONS IN WAYS THAT MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN DOESN'T SEEM POISED TO DO.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND SO IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF, IS BEING EFFECTIVE, JUST BEING ABLE TO GET ON FOX NEWS AND NEWSMAX ALL THE TIME, OR IS IT ACTUALLY SPONSORING LEGISLATION THAT HAS A CHANCE OF PASSING?

- WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THE MISINFORMATION THAT GETS OUT THAT PUSHES PERSONALITY IN TERMS OF IN FRONT OF POLICY, WHAT COULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT MISINFORMATION?

IS IT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE DONE VIA THE MEDIA?

IS IT SOMETHING GONNA BE DONE WHERE WE RETREAT BACK TO OUR HOMES AND CHURCHES LIKE DOING THE GLORY DAYS OF THE SCLC AND TALK AMONGST OURSELVES.

AND WE SEE IT BLOSSOM OUT OF PLACES LIKE BIRMINGHAM, PLACES LIKE ATLANTA, WHAT HAPPENS?

HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE COUNTER THE MISINFORMATION?

- I THINK COMMUNITY IS IMPORTANT, SO MY FRIEND MELISSA HARRIS PERRY, HER FIRST BOOK.

- [MIKE] I LOVE HER.

- YEAH, DEAR FRIEND, YOU KNOW, HER FIRST BOOK TALKED ABOUT HOW PEOPLE IN SPACES LIKE CHURCHES AND BARBERSHOPS AND BEAUTY SHOPS TALKED THROUGH ISSUES AND IT SORT OF HELPED TO REINFORCE LINKED FATE.

SO I THINK COMMUNITY IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DON'T LIVE ON ISLANDS AND THAT WE NEED TO BE ENGAGING WITH EACH OTHER AND HEARING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AND I THINK THAT THAT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, BUT I THINK THE OTHER PART OF MISINFORMATION IS TO SEE THIS AS A CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY.

- YES.

- I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED IN THE LAST SIX YEARS IN THIS UNITED STATES AND WE'RE TIRED.

- TO MY BLACK FOLKS?

- BUT BLACK FOLKS.

- HOW ABOUT WE SAY WE'VE BEEN TRAUMATIZED SINCE 1690.

- WE'VE BEEN TRAUMATIZED 400 YEARS, YES.

(MIKE LAUGHS) - BUT FOR THE LAST-- - ABSOLUTELY.

- SIX YEARS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, SINCE DONALD TRUMP EMERGED FROM THE ESCALATOR, PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, WATCH AND BE VIGILANT AND THAT GETS REALLY TIRESOME AFTER A WHILE.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- HOWEVER, BEING A GOOD CIVIC CITIZEN, IS A 24 HOUR A DAY, SEVEN DAY A WEEK JOB.

- YEAH.

- AND SO, NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WATCH THE NEWS ALL DAY, BUT YOU DO NEED TO WATCH IT EVERY DAY.

YOU NEED TO BE UP ON THE ISSUES, YOU NEED TO BE READING A GOOD PAPER.

YOU NEED TO BE READING YOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER.

- OKAY I WAS GONNA SAY THE NEWS EVERY DAY IS A LITTLE SCARY, BUT READING YOUR LOCAL PAPER.

- READING YOUR LOCAL PAPER, I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, THE OLD FASHIONED, LIKE IF YOU'RE GONNA WATCH NETWORK NEWS FOR A 1/2 AN HOUR TO BASICALLY LIKE GET THE HEADLINES, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO BE INFORMED.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO MISINFORMATION, WHEN ONE, THEY AREN'T VETTING THE SOURCES AND THEY DON'T, CAN'T DISCERN, WHAT'S A GOOD SOURCE AND A BAD SOURCE.

AND SOMETIMES THAT'S REALLY HARD ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- SOMEBODY SENDS YOU A POST AND NOBODY LOOKS AT WHAT THE BYLINE IS TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IT CAME FROM.

- YEAH.

- SO YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT CAME FROM, YOU KNOW, YOUR UNCLE JOE OR YOUR AUNT SALLY.

- YEAH.

- AND IT'S JUST THEIR PERSONAL OPINION OR WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS COMING FROM SOMETHING LIKE THE NEW YORK TIMES.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- WHERE THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL JOURNALIST WHO HAD AN EDITOR, WHO HAD TO KIND OF APPROVE WHAT THEY SAID FIRST AND CHECK THEIR SOURCES TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S TRUE.

- LET ME ASK YOU THIS, WE HAVE DEMOCRATS, WE HAVE REPUBLICANS.

WE HAVE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE, I SEE ON BOTH SIDES, A LOT OF US, PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE US, ONE OF THE BEST REPUBLICAN ORGANIZERS IN THE STATE RIGHT NOW IS A YOUNG BLACK WOMAN.

HER NAME IS HER NAME IS ESCAPING ME, BUT SHE ORGANIZES WELL, SOME OF THE BEST NEW GEORGIA PROJECT, ONE OF THE BEST ORGANIZATIONS IN OUR STATE, I THINK THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE BLACKS ON BOTH SIDES.

WHO DO YOU SEE AS RISING STARS, BLACK OR NON-BLACK FROM THE DEMOCRATIC AND OR REPUBLICAN PARTY?

WHAT BOTH PARTIES, WHO DO YOU SEE AS RISING STARS?

- YOU KNOW, I THINK REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THIS ELECTION STACEY ABRAMS HAS A LOT TO SAY AND WILL HAVE A LOT TO SAY.

- [MIKE] ABSOLUTELY, I AGREE.

- AS EXPECTED IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, I THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE UNSUNG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY BE IN THE LIST OF THE CONGRESS.

- YEAH GIVE PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, YEAH, GIVE US SOME NEW NAMES ALMOST-- - BUT I THINK CONGRESSWOMAN LAUREN UNDERWOOD WHO'S IS IN A COMPETITIVE DISTRICT OUTSIDE OF CHICAGO IS SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT RISE THROUGH THE RANKS.

- [MIKE] LAUREN, A DEMOCRAT?

- [ANDRA] DEMOCRAT.

- [MIKE] ALL RIGHT GIMME A REPUBLICAN.

- YOU KNOW, I THINK THE LARGER ISSUE IS WHAT DOES THE REPUBLICAN PARTY LOOK LIKE POST-TRUMP.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- AND WHETHER OR NOT THE TRUMP WING OF THE PARTY IS CONTINUES TO BE ASCENDANT.

- [MIKE] YES.

- SO, YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING ABOUT THIS, 'CAUSE I'M READING WILL HURD'S BOOK RIGHT NOW AS FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN FROM TEXAS.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- [ANDRA] PRESENTS AS MODERATE, THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO REALLY CAN'T GET ELECTED, IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW.

- [MIKE] YEAH.

- BUT HAS VERY INTERESTING POLICY THINGS TO SAY.

AND I THINK LIKE HAS AN IMPORTANT VOICE, BUT YOU KNOW, IT DEPENDS ON WHICH DIRECTION THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WANTS TO GO IN.

- YOUR LATEST BOOK, "RACE AND THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION", WE'RE ON A WRAP, BUT I WANT YOU TO TALK TO ME ABOUT WHO MANY CONSIDERED TO BE ONE OF THE GREATEST PRESIDENTS EVER.

AND MANY AT THE END OF HIS CAMPAIGN AT THE END OF HIS RUN, WERE TERRIBLY DISAPPOINTED BY SOMEONE THEY WERE FELT WAS THE GREATEST.

WHAT WERE HIS CHALLENGES?

WHAT CHALLENGES DID HE MEET AND FOR THE BENEFIT, SPECIFICALLY OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY AND WHAT THINGS COULD HE HAVE BEEN BETTER ABOUT YOU THINK?

- WELL, I WROTE THIS BOOK TO ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT DID OBAMA DO FOR BLACK PEOPLE?

I HAVE OTHER COLLEAGUES IN POLITICAL SCIENCE WHO HAVE WRITTEN BOOKS THAT FOCUS ON THE SYMBOLISM IN THE OBAMA PRESIDENCY, AND WE ALL AGREE.

IT WAS HIGHLY IMPORTANT THAT BARACK OBAMA BE DESCRIPTIVELY REPRESENTATIVE.

- [MIKE] ABSOLUTELY.

- AND THAT SYMBOLISM IS IMPORTANT, BUT I THINK THE QUESTION IS, WHAT DO YOU DO BEYOND THAT?

AND SO SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES WOULD ARGUE THAT OBAMA DIDN'T DO MUCH FOR BLACK PEOPLE.

AND I WOULD SAY HE DID MORE THAN MANY OF US REALIZED.

SO I USED THE ANALOGY OF THE DUCK KIND OF LIKE TREADING BENEATH THE SURFACE OF THE WATER.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE THE DUCK IS GLIDING ON THE TOP, THERE MIGHT BE MORE GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES.

THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE I COMPARE PRESIDENT OBAMA TO PRESIDENT'S BUSH AND CLINTON BE BEFORE HIM.

SO I GET SOME PARTISAN COMPARISONS AND SOME CROSS PARTISAN COMPARISONS INVOLVED AND OBAMA DOES LOOK VERY SIMILAR, BUT THEN THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE WE DO SEE GREATER DESCRIPTIVE REPRESENTATION.

- WOULD YOU GIVE US SOME, 'CAUSE WE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE SO.

- YEAH WELL, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LIKE TO LOOK AT IS THAT THERE'S, SOME PEOPLE SAY OBAMA DIDN'T FULFILL ANY PROMISES TO BLACK PEOPLE, SO I GO THROUGH AND I CODE.

- WHAT'S A BIG ONE, WHAT'S ONE BIG ONE THAT HE FULFILLED US.

- THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.

- [MIKE] OKAY.

- [ANDRA] YEAH, I MEAN, SO IF WE LOOK AT THE SORT OF RATES, OF UN-INSURANCE OR LACK OF INSURANCE.

- [MIKE] HEART DISEASE AND DIABETES AND THINGS OF THAT.

- WELL IN PARTICULAR JUST THE RATES OF THE UNINSURED THEY GO DOWN AND YOU CAN SEE IT GO DOWN IN PARTICULAR IN 2014 WHEN OBAMACARE GOES INTO EFFECT.

- GOTCHA.

- AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, IN A FOCUS GROUP, I HAD ONE OF MY RESPONDENTS IN PARTICULAR SAID, HE CAN DO NOTHING ELSE, AND I WILL BE HAPPY ABOUT OBAMACARE BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT HER SON WAS TAKEN CARE OF.

- I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS BOOK, I WANNA TO THANK YOU FOR COMING AND EDUCATING ME ABOUT MUCH LOCALLY AND BEYOND, I FELT LIKE I WAS ON AN EPISODE OF THE GEORGIA GAME.

(BOTH LAUGHS) AND I WANNA THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK YOU DO ON A DAILY BASIS.

THIS HAS AN HONOR HAVING YOUR OWN LOVE AND RESPECT, AND I HOPE THIS IS NOT YOUR LAST TIME JOINING ME.

- THANK YOU, IT'S AN HONOR TO BE HERE.

- THANK YOU SO MUCH, I APPRECIATE YOU SO MUCH.

- THANKS.

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