REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

OUR GUEST TODAY IS ANNE HILLERMAN ONE OF MY FAVORITE WRITERS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>ANNE: OH, THANK YOU, LORENE, I AM EXCITED TO BE HERE.

>>LORENE: WELL, I AM EXCITED BECAUSE YOU HAVE YET ANOTHER BOOK, THE EIGHTH IN YOUR LEAPHORN, CHEE, AND MANUELITO SERIES AND IT IS CALLED THE WAY OF THE BEAR AND IT IS A VERY PROFOUND AND TIMELY AND EXCITING MURDER MYSTERY.

>>ANNE: THANK YOU.

YEAH, I FEEL LIKE A NEW MOM.

>>LORENE: EXACTLY, EXACTLY.

YOUR FIRST BOOK, YOU HAVE WON SO MANY AWARDS BUT SPIDER WOMAN'S DAUGHTER AND THEN IN A WAY, YOU HAVE ALWAYS SEEMED TO ME LIKE A SPIDER WOMAN BECAUSE THE WAY YOU WEAVE YOUR PLOTS ARE SO INTRICATE AND YOUR CHARACTERS ARE SO VIBRANT AND COLORFUL LIKE THREADS OF YARN.

AND YOU MAKE THESE TAPESTRIES OF LITERATURE THAT I LOVE READING SO PLEASE KEEP ON WRITING.

LET'S GO THROUGH SOME OF YOUR OTHER BOOKS, THEY HAVE THESE BEAUTIFUL COVERS, YOU HAVE WON AWARDS.

THIS IS CALLED ROCK WITH WINGS , THIS ONE IS CALLED CAVE OF BONES .

I COULDN'T BRING THEM ALL, I AM SORRY AND THIS ONE IS THE SONG OF THE LION AND THE LAST ONE THAT I HAVE HERE IS CALLED THE SACRED BRIDGE .

SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ALSO, BECAUSE YOUR FATHER IS TONY HILLERMAN AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WILL LET YOU TALK, IS A NEW SERIES ON AMC ON TELEVISION.

THEY MADE A TELEVISION SERIES OF SOME OF YOUR FATHER'S WORKS, THE SERIES IS CALLED THE DARK WIND AND HERE IS TONY HILLERMAN, ANNE'S DAD, BOOK THE DARK WIND BUT A LOT OF THE PLOT IS MADE UP OF ELEMENTS FROM THIS BOOK.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: LISTENING WOMAN.

THERE IS ANOTHER BOOK INVOLVED, TOO, ISN'T THERE?

>>ANNE: YEAH, PEOPLE OF DARKNESS.

>>LORENE: PEOPLE OF DARKNESS .

>>ANNE: AND ACTUALLY, THEY IN THAT SERIES, THEY ALSO TOOK MY RE-IMAGINING OF THE BERNADETTE MANUELITO CHARACTER.

IN DAD'S BOOKS, BERNIE WAS KIND OF A SWEET BUT, WELL, SHE WAS SWEET BUT SHE WAS NOT A VERY COMPETENT POLICEWOMAN.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: SO WHEN I RE-IMAGINED THE SERIES, I ELEVATED HER TO BE A CRIME SOLVER WITH THE GUYS AND LUCKILY THAT IS THE BERNIE THAT THEY HAVE IN THE DARK WINDS MOVIES.

>>LORENE: YES, SHE IS REALLY BRILLIANT, CUNNING, STRONG.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: JUST WONDERFUL.

SO AFTER TONY DIED, YOUR FATHER DIED, PEOPLE WERE JUST GRIEVING BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NEXT CHAPTER, WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH JIM CHEE AND JOE LEAPHORN AND BERNADETTE MANUELITO AND YOU MISSED THEM, TOO.

SO WHAT CAUSED YOU TO TAKE ON THE CHALLENGE OF WRITING THESE BOOKS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>ANNE: WELL, THAT IS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

A LOT OF IT HAD TO DO WITH, MY LAST NON-FICTION BOOK, I STARTED OUT WRITING NON-FICTION AND MY LAST NON-FICTION BOOK WAS A BOOK CALLED TONY HILLERMAN'S LANDSCAPE AND IT HAD A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL PHOTOS THAT MY LATE HUSBAND TOOK.

WE WOULD GET, A LOT OF PLACES YOU KNOW ARE LOOKING FOR FREE SPEAKERS, SO DON AND I TALKED AT A LOT OF LIBRARIES AND ROTARY CLUBS, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND WHENEVER WE WOULD TALK PEOPLE WOULD ALWAYS ASK THE QUESTION, "WILL THERE BE MORE BOOKS ABOUT JIM CHEE AND JOE LEAPHORN?"

AND I WOULD HAVE TO TELL THEM, "NO, MY DAD WORKED HARD AND HE TOOK CARE OF BUSINESS AT THE END."

AND THEN, I COULD JUST REALLY READ THE DISAPPOINTMENT IN THE PERSON'S FACE, THE PERSON WHO ASKED THE QUESTION AND AFTER A WHILE, IT DAWNED ON ME THAT I SHARED THAT DISAPPOINTMENT, THAT I HAD GROWN UP WITH THESE CHARACTERS AND THEY WERE SUCH A PART OF MY LIFE.

I HATED TO SEE THOSE STORIES END AND EVEN MORE THAN THAT, I HATED TO SEE THE SERIES END WITHOUT THERE BEING A STRONG NAVAJO WOMAN TO BE IN THE SPOTLIGHT.

I MEAN I THINK WHEN MY DAD STARTED THE SERIES MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO, THERE WEREN'T SO MANY WOMEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, TIMES HAVE CHANGED, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY TIME FOR BERNADETTE MANUELITO TO RISE TO THE CAUSE AND BECOME A FULL-FLEDGED CRIME SOLVER.

SO I THINK THOSE WERE THE TWO THINGS THAT MOTIVATED ME AND I WAS JUST THINKING AS I WAS DRIVING OVER HERE, THIS IS THE TENTH ANNIVERSARY OF SPIDERWOMAN'S DAUGHTER.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.

>>ANNE: ISN'T THAT AMAZING!

>>LORENE: SO YOU HAVE DONE EIGHT BERNIE BOOKS, OTHER BOOKS TOO, IN THESE TEN YEARS.

OH THAT IS WONDERFUL, CONGRATULATIONS.

>>ANNE: WELL, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: TOAST YOU IN CHAMPAGNE.

>>ANNE: WELL YOU KNOW BERNIE HAS JUST SUCH A TREMENDOUS LIFE FORCE, I MEAN SHE JUST KIND OF PULLED ME ALONG THROUGH THIS SERIES.

SO I AM REALLY GRATEFUL TO MY DAD FOR INVENTING HER AND FOR LEAVING HER KIND OF DORMANT.

>>LORENE: SO THAT YOU COULD RESURRECT HER AS THIS PASSIONATE, STRONG, VIBRANT PERSON, A MULTI-FACETED FAMILY WOMAN, WIFE, VERY GOOD OFFICER.

ALSO VERY TRUE TO SOME OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN TRADITIONS THAT SHE WAS RAISED IN.

>>ANNE: TRUE.

>>LORENE: AND SO WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THIS BOOK, SHE HAS NOW COME TO A REALLY BEAUTIFUL, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH A MYSTERY IS WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY, WHO DONE IT AND ALL THAT STUFF.

>>ANNE: RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

WE JUST WANT TO SAY ENOUGH THAT PEOPLE WILL GO OUT AND READ FOR THEMSELVES.

>>LORENE: YEAH, BUT SOMEBODY DONE IT, WE KNOW THAT.

BUT, BERNADETTE, HERSELF, HAS COME TO A REALLY PROFOUND PLACE OF BALANCE AND MATURITY AND ALSO SHE HAS DEVELOPED A QUALITY THAT SHE HAD IN SMALL AT THE BEGINNING, BUT NOW IT IS REALLY STRONG.

SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO SENSE WHEN SOMETHING IS OUT OF PLACE AND WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG, SO SHE IS A VERY INTUITIVE DETECTIVE, STRONG AND FORMIDABLE, BUT SHE LISTENS TO HER GUT AND FOLLOWS HER INSTINCTS AND IT ACCELERATES HER SOLVING THESE CRIMES.

>>ANNE: THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT AND SHE DID HAVE THAT QUALITY IN THE OTHER BOOKS.

BUT I THINK AFTER BEING IN MANY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS, NOW SHE HAS MATURED ENOUGH THAT SHE FEELS LIKE SHE CAN TRUST THAT INTUITION.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>ANNE: THIS IS THE FIRST BOOK I HAVE WRITTEN WHERE THERE ALSO IS A LOT OF INTERNAL CONFLICT.

I THINK IN MOST OF MY BOOKS I MEAN THERE WAS SOME OF THAT BECAUSE BERNIE HAS AN AGED MOTHER AND A KIND OF AN ONERY SISTER AND SO THAT WAS ALWAYS GOING ON AS A SUBPLOT.

BUT IN THIS BOOK, THERE IS MORE INTERNAL CONFLICT WITH BOTH JIM CHEE AND WITH BERNADETTE MANUELITO.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: BESIDES THE BIG STORY, THE BIG CRIME THAT THEY HAVE TO SOLVE.

>>LORENE: AND ONE GETS A PROMOTION AND THE OTHER ONE DOESN'T, THERE IS MARITAL TENSION BECAUSE OF THAT.

>>ANNE: YEAH, YEAH.

>>LORENE: ALTHOUGH THE PROMOTION WAS CERTAINLY DESERVED BUT BOTH OF THEM, I FELT, SHOULD HAVE HAD A PROMOTION BUT THAT IS HOW YOU BUILD CHARACTER.

>>ANNE: WELL YOU KNOW A LONG TIME AGO, ONE READER, I THINK I HAD JUST WRITTEN TWO OR THREE BOOKS, THE READER SAID TO ME, SO HOW LONG IS JIM CHEE GOING TO HAVE TO BE A SERGEANT?

>>LORENE: AND HE GOT A PROMOTION TO LIEUTENANT, RIGHT?

>>ANNE: YEAH, RIGHT.

>>LORENE: YOU HAVE WON, ALL OF YOUR BOOKS, THESE SERIES HAVE BEEN NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLERS AND THIS ONE WILL BE.

ALSO, YOU HAVE WON SOME WONDERFUL AWARDS.

YOU WON THE FRANK WATERS AWARD, DON'T WE LOVE FRANK WATERS, HE WROTE, THE MAN WHO KILLED THE DEER AND A LOT OF OTHER BOOKS.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: YOU HAVE GOTTEN THE NEW MEXICO'S PRESS WOMAN'S AWARD, BUT YOU ALSO GO AN AWARD CALLED ROUNDERS.

AND THE NEW MEXICO STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE GIVES IT OUT AND IT'S NAMED AFTER ONE OF MAX EVAN'S BOOKS, THE ROUNDERS , AND IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE KNOWLEDGE AND CULTURE AND CONTINUATION OF THE WAYS OF THE WEST.

>>ANNE: I WAS SO HONORED TO GET THAT AWARD, IT REALLY MEANT A LOT TO ME, IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE VERY FEW WOMEN HAVE RECEIVED THAT AWARD AND ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO RECEIVED WAS MAX EVAN'S WIFE, IT WAS PAT EVANS.

>>LORENE: PAT EVANS.

>>ANNE: WHO CERTAINLY DESERVED IT, I MEAN TALK ABOUT BEING AN EDITOR AND A PROMOTER AND A PERSON WHO KEEPS EVERYTHING RUNNING SMOOTHLY BEHIND THE SCENES, SO WE CREATIVE PEOPLE CAN DO OUR WORK.

I WAS REALLY TOUCHED I HAVE TO SAY TO BE GIVEN THAT AWARD.

SO NOW THEY ASKED PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE AWARD WHO WE CAN THINK OF.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: WHO WOULD BE GOOD PEOPLE TO PASS THE AWARD ONTO.

SO I AM REALLY TRYING TO THINK NOW OF GOOD WOMEN WHO SHOULD HAVE THAT AWARD.

>>LORENE: GOOD, GOOD, GOOD.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE PICTURES OF MAX IS, I DON'T KNOW WHICH BOOK IT WAS, BUT HE IS STANDING BEHIND LIKE TWO STACKS OF LEGAL PADS, YOU ALMOST CAN'T SEE HIS FACE AND IT WAS HIS WONDERFUL WIFE PAT'S JOB TO TRANSCRIBE ALL THOSE LEGAL PADS.

SHE EVEN DID THE FIRST COVER FOR BLUEFEATHER FELLINI .

>>ANNE: WOW.

>>LORENE: SHE IS A WONDERFUL GRAPHIC ARTIST, TOO.

SO IT WAS JUST SO RIGHT THAT SHE SHOULD GET THE REWARD AFTER ALL OF THAT.

>>ANNE: IT CERTAINLY WAS.

IF MY MOM WAS AROUND, I WOULD NOMINATE HER FOR THE AWARD TOO, BECAUSE SHE KIND OF LIKE PAT WAS SO INSTRUMENTAL IN MY DAD'S SUCCESSFUL CAREER AS A WRITER.

SHE WAS HIS FIRST EDITOR AND HIS BEST PROMOTER AND ALSO WHEN SPIDERWOMAN'S DAUGHTER CAME OUT, SHE WAS THE ONE WHO KIND OF GAVE ME PERMISSION TO TAKE ON THOSE CHARACTERS AND THEN SHE WAS THE FIRST ONE TO READ THE FIRST DRAFT OF THAT BOOK.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOODNESS.

>>ANNE: AND SHE TOLD ME SHE THOUGHT MY DAD WOULD BE PROUD OF ME, SO.

THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO HEAR.

>>LORENE: THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IN THIS LIFE, YOU KNOW, IT'S TRUE.

>>ANNE: TRUE, RIGHT.

>>LORENE: BUT I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THE WAY OF THE BEAR.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ALWAYS DONE, YOU HAVE MADE GEOGRAPHY AND PLACES AS CHARACTERS IN YOUR BOOKS.

AND THEY HAVE BEEN NEW MEXICAN AND IN THE WAY OF THE BEAR YOU ARE OVER AT BEARS EARS IN UTAH.

BEARS EARS IN A PHENOMENAL PLACE, IT IS SACRED TO FIVE TRIBES, FIVE SEPARATE TRIBES, AND IT IS CALLED A LIBRARY OF FOSSILS.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND THERE WERE SO MANY FOSSILS THAT PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY, THE NATIVE PEOPLE, WOULD BUILD THEIR HOUSES USING SOME OF THESE FOSSILS.

AND FOSSILS FIGURE VERY IMPORTANTLY IN THIS BOOK, BUT WE WILL COME TO THAT IN A MINUTE.

SO BEARS EARS ITSELF, THEN YOU COME BACK AS A LOCALE AND ALSO THAT THIS IS ABOUT THE WAY OF THE BEAR AND IN EVERY ELEMENT OF THIS BOOK, THE WAY OF THE BEAR SHOWS THROUGH.

THE WAY OF THE BEAR IS ACTUALLY HOW THE HOLY PEOPLE AND THE BEARS PROTECTED THE DINE AND THE NAVAJO, IN PART BY TEACHING THE NAVAJOS TO BE STRONG AND BE BRAVE.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THE TOTEM ANIMAL BEAR IS FOR STRENGTH AND COURAGE AND TO HAVE THAT AS YOUR PEOPLE'S TOTEM, THAT'S PRETTY POWERFUL.

>>ANNE: YOU KNOW, I WAS SO LUCKY TO BE ABLE, THIS WAS BASICALLY MY FIRST BOOK AFTER THE RESTRICTIONS, THE HEAVY RESTRICTIONS THAT THE NAVAJO NATION HAD FOR THE PANDEMIC, AFTER THOSE WERE LIFTED.

SO FINALLY, I COULD GO BACK TO THE NAVAJO NATION, SO I DROVE FROM SANTA FE THROUGH GANADO, KAYENTA, UP THROUGH MONUMENT VALLEY TO GET TO BEARS EARS AND IT REALLY CHARGED MY BATTERIES TO SEE THAT BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY.

AND THEN, I STAYED IN BLUFF AND I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE A NAVAJO GUIDE WHO WENT WITH ME UP TO SOME OF THE SITES.

>>LORENE: OH, WONDERFUL.

>>ANNE: AND BESIDES JUST BEING VERY PATIENT AND KIND AND KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE GEOLOGY AND THE ARCHEOLOGY AND THE PALEONTOLOGY, HE ALSO WAS ABLE TO SHARE HIS OWN CULTURAL STORIES ABOUT THAT AREA.

AND OF COURSE A LOT OF THAT DIDN'T GET INTO THE BOOK BUT IT CERTAINLY GOT INTO MY HEART.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: AND I FELT SO LUCKY TO HAVE HAD THAT EXPERIENCE.

>>LORENE: IT CHANGES HOW YOU LOOK AT THE LANDSCAPE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SO MANY OF THESE STORIES ARE ORIGIN STORIES ABOUT THE LANDSCAPE, MAYBE HOW A CERTAIN MOUNTAIN LOOKED LIKE THE BEARS EARS.

>>ANNE: EXACTLY.

>>LORENE: YOU WERE VERY, VERY FORTUNATE IN THAT.

>>ANNE: I WAS AND THE OTHER THING THAT I WAS FORTUNATE ABOUT WAS WHEN I WAS THERE THE WEATHER WAS VERY UNSETTLED.

WE WOULD HAVE WARM DAYS WHERE YOU HARDLY NEEDED A SWEATER AND THEN DAYS WHERE I WAS WISHING I HAD BROUGHT MY SKI COAT.

THE WEATHER ALSO PLAYS A BIG ROLE IN THE WAY OF THE BEAR AND I THINK IF I HAD NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE THERE IN PERSON, THAT IDEA MIGHT NOT HAVE OCCURRED TO ME, BUT IT WORKED OUT REALLY WELL SO I WAS GRATEFUL TO THE NATURE GODS FOR GIVING ME THOSE COLD WINDY DAYS AS WELL AS THE BEAUTIFUL DAYS.

>>LORENE: WELL IT IS THE PERFECT SUMMER READ BECAUSE I GOT VERY COLD READING ABOUT THAT NEVER ENDING BLIZZARD AND PEOPLE BEING STUCK IN THE BLIZZARD AND SO IT WORKS.

WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH ANNE HILLERMAN ABOUT HER WONDERFUL NEW BOOK THE WAY OF THE BEAR.

SO PLACE IS A CHARACTER IN YOUR BOOKS, THE WEATHER IS A CHARACTER IN YOUR BOOKS AND THEN YOU WEAVE, I LEARN SO MUCH FROM YOUR BOOKS AND ONE OF THE SUBTHEMES BECAUSE AGAIN WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT IT TOO MUCH, BUT THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF FOSSILS SINCE THE BEARS EARS AREA IS CALLED A LIBRARY OF FOSSILS.

THERE WERE SOME PERHAPS FICTIONAL, ALTHOUGH I WONDER IF THEY ARE REALLY REAL, DISCOVERIES THAT SHOWED A LOT ABOUT THE EVOLUTION FROM DINOSAURS TO MAMMALS IN THE FORM OF A FOSSILIZED TOOTH.

>>ANNE: I DIDN'T HAVE TO MAKE THAT UP, THAT WAS REAL.

>>LORENE: THAT WAS REAL?

>>ANNE: THAT WAS REAL.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE I WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT IT AND SO WHAT IT SHOWED WAS CREATURES, THE DINOSAURS EVOLVING INTO MAMMALS, HOW THEY ADAPTED TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

AND THAT IS WHAT IS AMAZINGLY TIMELY ABOUT THIS BECAUSE IN EFFECT THIS BOOK IS A PARADIGM, A PATTERN, A TEMPLATE FOR HOW OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ADJUSTED TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T HELP BUT LOOK AT IT THROUGH THAT LENS TOO, BECAUSE IT TURNED OUT OKAY.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

IT'S REALLY A HOPEFUL STORY.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: ABOUT THE RESILIENCE OF LIFE.

I HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE ARE SOME BAD PEOPLE IN IT WHO KIND OF GET THEIR JUST DESERTS, BUT IN TERMS OF THE LIFE FORCE THAT IS BRIGHT FROM BEGINNING TO END IN THAT BOOK.

I LIKE TO WRITE BOOKS THAT KIND OF BUILD ON PEOPLE'S OPTIMISM.

I THINK THERE IS SO, ONE OF THE JOYS OF WRITING FICTION IS THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS HAVE A HAPPY ENDING.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: OR AT LEAST AN ENDING WHERE JUSTICE IS SERVED AND AS WE KNOW SO OFTEN IN REAL LIFE THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE JOYS FOR ME OF WRITING FICTION RATHER THAN MY DAYS AS A JOURNALIST AND A NON-FICTION WRITER WHERE YOU HAVE TO STICK A LITTLE CLOSER TO HOW THINGS MIGHT REALLY WORK OUT.

>>LORENE: BUT IN YOUR DAYS AS A JOURNALIST AND A NON-FICTION WRITER, YOU WROTE BEAUTIFUL BOOKS ABOUT GARDENS.

>>ANNE: THAT'S TRUE.

>>LORENE: THAT'S A VERY HAPPY ENDING.

>>ANNE: GARDENS HAVE HAPPY ENDINGS, EVEN IF THERE IS A DROUGHT OR BUGS OR WHO KNOWS WHAT, GARDENS STILL HAVE HAPPY ENDINGS.

>>LORENE: BECAUSE THAT LIFE FORCE IS SO STRONG.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO STRONG.

SO WHEN YOU DECIDED TO WALK IN YOUR FATHER'S FOOTSTEPS, WHAT WERE YOU WORRIED ABOUT?

SO YOU HAVE TO BE AS GOOD AS HIM BUT DIFFERENT AND YOU HAD TO, I LOVE THAT YOU ELEVATED BERNIE TO A MUCH MORE FULLY DEVELOPED AND IT WAS ALMOST LIKE SHE WAS GIVEN TO YOU AS A GIFT AND YOU LOOKED AROUND AND THOUGHT, WE'RE DOING IT WITH THIS ONE.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK THE THING I WAS MOST CONCERNED ABOUT WAS DISAPPOINTING THE FANS WHO HAD FOLLOWED MY DAD THROUGH THOSE NINETEEN BOOKS.

I THINK WHEN MOST PEOPLE WRITE A FIRST NOVEL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEIR HIGH SCHOOL CLASS READS IT AND THE KIDS THEY WENT TO COLLEGE WITH AND THEIR DOCTOR MIGHT READ IT OR THEIR HUSBAND MIGHT READ IT OR THEIR MOM MIGHT READ IT.

BUT I KNEW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO I DIDN'T KNOW, TOTAL STRANGERS, WERE GOING TO PICK UP SPIDERWOMAN'S DAUGHTER AND I FIGURED THEY MIGHT GIVE ME TEN PAGES BECAUSE THEY WERE GOING TO BE VERY SUSPICIOUS OF SOMEBODY NEW WITH THE HILLERMAN NAME TAKING OVER THE SERIES, AND IN FACT, THERE IS A LOT OF SORT OF DISAPPOINTING PRECEDENT FOR PUBLISHERS DOING THAT.

SO THAT WAS ONE THING THAT CONCERNED ME, I THOUGHT, I HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE.

THAT THERE IS ENOUGH IN THIS BOOK THAT DAD'S LONG-TIME FANS ARE SATISFIED AND LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, I ALSO HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ACCEPT BERNIE AS A REAL CRIME SOLVER.

SO I HAD TO MAKE HER TOUGH AND SMART AND INTERESTING ENOUGH THAT PEOPLE WOULD READ MORE THAN TWO OR THREE CHAPTERS AND THEN GET BORED WITH IT.

SO, YEAH, IT WAS A LOT TO HANDLE BUT I HAVE ALWAYS LIKED A CHALLENGE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

SO, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS AMC SERIES CALLED DARK WINDS , BASED ROUGHLY, ROUGHLY ON SOME OF YOUR FATHER'S BOOKS.

SO, ZAHN MCCLARNON IS THE HERO WHO PLAYS LEAPHORN.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND THE WONDERFUL WOMAN WHO PLAYS BERNADETTE IS PERFECT, PERFECT.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: BUT THEY TOOK A LOT OF LIBERTIES WITH IT.

BUT IT IS WONDERFUL BECAUSE THIS IS A TIME AT LAST WHERE NATIVE VOICES ARE BEING AMPLIFIED.

THERE WAS RESERVATION DOGS AND A LOT MORE NATIVE, MOSTLY, YOU SAID, THE CREW, THE ACTORS, AND A LOT OF THE WRITERS ARE NATIVE, RIGHT?

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, YEAH.

AND THEY DID A LOT OF THE FILMING AT THE CAMEL ROCK STUDIOS OUTSIDE OF SANTA FE.

I THINK IT'S TESUQUE PUEBLO, BUT IT MIGHT BE POJOAQUE, I AM A LITTLE CONFUSED ON THAT.

BUT THEY REDID THAT CASINO TO HAVE ALL THEIR INTERIOR STUFF LIFE JOE LEAPHORN'S HOUSE IS CONSTRUCTED IN THERE AND THE NAVAJO POLICE STATION IS CONSTRUCTED IN THERE.

>>LORENE: CAN WE GO IN, CAN THE PUBLIC GO IN?

>>ANNE: I DON'T KNOW.

>>LORENE: THAT WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING.

>>ANNE: IT WOULD BE BECAUSE I WAS ONE OF THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS.

THEY GAVE ME A SPECIAL TOUR SO I GOT TO SEE IT ALL.

>>LORENE: I THINK THIS IS KIND OF HOW IT'S GOING TO BE.

THE SERIES HAS BEEN SO WELL RESPECTED, I THINK THEY ARE TAPING SEASON TWO.

>>ANNE: THEY JUST FINISHED IT, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE IT ON AMC BEGINNING THE END OF JULY.

>>LORENE: OH MY GOSH!

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: GIVE ME SOMETHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

>>ANNE: IT'S GREAT, YEAH, SOMETHING TO BRIDGE THE GAP BEFORE FOOTBALL STARTS AGAIN.

>>LORENE: WELL I CAN WAIT, I WOULD MUCH PREFER TO SEE WHAT BERNIE IS UP TO.

>>ANNE: OH THE DARK WIND SERIES GOT AN AWARD FROM THE WESTERN HERITAGE ASSOCIATION AS THE BEST TV SHOW FOR 2023 THAT PORTRAYED THE AMERICAN WEST.

>>LORENE: WOW!

>>ANNE: WASN'T THAT GREAT?

>>LORENE: THAT IS HUGE.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: I AM SO PROUD OF YOU!

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: OH THAT'S GREAT, OH MY GOODNESS.

I MISSED THAT.

>>ANNE: EVERYBODY INVOLVED WITH IT SHOULD BE.

WELL, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO A LOT OF PROMOTION ON IT YET BUT I AM HOPING WHEN THE SECOND SEASON STARTS, THEY WILL GIVE THEMSELVES A PAT ON THE BACK.

>>LORENE: OH THEY SHOULD, THEY SHOULD, BECAUSE I JUST FEEL THAT THEY HAVE REAL INTEGRITY.

YOU KNOW, I KNOW THEY CHANGED THE DETAILS BUT THEY HAVE HAD REAL INTEGRITY IN PRESENTING FROM A NATIVE POINT OF VIEW, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVEN'T GONE ALL "GODZILLA RESCUES THE MAIDEN" AND ALL THAT.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: THEY HAVEN'T FALLEN INTO CLICHES, THEY ARE LETTING THE PATH BE THE PATH.

>>ANNE: THEY ARE.

ONE OF THE BEST EPISODES AND I AM SURE YOU SAW THIS WAS WHEN THEY DID THE KINAALD� CEREMONY, THE COMING OF AGE OF A YOUNG WOMAN.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>ANNE: AND THEY WERE SO RESPECTFUL OF THAT, THERE WAS HARDLY ANY DIALOGUE, IT WAS ALMOST ALL VISUAL.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>ANNE: AND I THOUGHT IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL THINGS THAT I HAD EVER SEEN ON TELEVISION.

AND IT WAS SUCH A WONDERFUL CELEBRATION OF YOUNG WOMEN WHICH YOU VERY SELDOM SEE.

>>LORENE: YOU CERTAINLY DON'T SEE IT IN THE ANGLO COMMUNITY EXCEPT FOR QUINCEA�ERAS.

>>ANNE: RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: IT'S A WONDERFUL THING, BEAUTIFULLY PORTRAYED.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

AND THIS SEASON THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO MORE FILMING ON THE NAVAJO NATION.

>>LORENE: GOOD, GOOD.

BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC IS OVER, THEY HAVE OPENED UP AGAIN.

I AM JUST BITTERLY CRUSHED AT HOW BAD IT WAS WHEN THE PANDEMIC FIRST STARTED FOR THE NAVAJO NATION AND THEY HAD TO ABSOLUTELY SHUT DOWN.

NOBODY IN, NOBODY OUT, WE HAVE TO HANDLE THIS.

BUT THEY LOST SO MANY PEOPLE BEFORE WE REALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THIS DISEASE WAS AND HOW TO PROTECT IT.

>>ANNE: THEY WERE ONE OF THE VERY FIRST PLACES HIT AND BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY CHALLENGES FOR THE NAVAJO NATION, IT TOOK THEM A WHILE TO REALLY GET A HANDLE ON IT.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>ANNE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: WE ARE COMING UP TO AN EVENT CALLED THE SANTA FE INTERNATIONAL LITERARY FESTIVAL.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND EVERY YEAR IT WILL, THIS YEAR IT WILL BE MAY 19 TO 21.

BUT EVERY YEAR THEY CHOSE A LEGENDARY NEW MEXICO AUTHOR TO HIGHLIGHT AND LAST YEAR IT WAS YOUR DAD.

>>ANNE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO THEY HAD WONDERFUL PANELS AND REALLY ASTUTE WONDERFUL PEOPLE LIKE JAMIE, JAMES MCGRATH MORRIS AND HOW THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT HIM AND WAS THE FIRST OF THEIR LEGENDARY AUTHORS AND THEY CHOSE HIM.

THIS YEAR, I AM HAPPY TO SAY, THEY ARE DOING RUDY ANAYA, RUDOLFO ANAYA.

>>ANNE: YES.

>>LORENE: AND THAT WILL BE A WONDERFUL EVENT, TOO.

>>ANNE: IT SURE WILL BE, YES.

>>LORENE: I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT.

BUT THEY BRING WRITERS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUT WE HAVE SUCH A GOOD CROP OF NATIVE NEW MEXICANS, LIKE YOURSELF, AND LIKE EVEN GEORGE MARTIN AND OH MY GOD, KIRK ELLIS, I AM GOING TO FORGET EVERYBODY.

>>ANNE: I THINK THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING WITH MICHAEL MCGARITY THIS YEAR.

>>LORENE: OH, FINALLY, THAT'S GREAT!

>>ANNE: I THINK SCOTT MOMADAY IS AN HONORARY CHAIRMAN.

>>LORENE: OH, THE HONORARY CHAIR, WELL THAT IS ABOUT AS GOOD AS YOU CAN GET.

I TALKED TO CLAIRE HERTEL AND MARK BRYANT ABOUT HOW THEY HAD PUT IT TOGETHER AND IT IS REALLY, IT'S COMING UP IN MAY 19, AND IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE HAD THAT MANY WORLD-FAMOUS AUTHORS HERE AT THE SAME TIME, TOGETHER, SO YOU WILL SEE ME OVER THERE A LOT.

>>ANNE: GOOD, MAYBE YOU WILL SEE ME THERE, TOO.

I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO SIT IN ON SOME OF IT.

THE BOOK I AM WORKING ON NOW.

>>LORENE: THAT'S JUST WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU.

>>ANNE: IT'S DUE IN THE MIDDLE OF JUNE AND I AM FARTHER BEHIND THAN I WOULD LIKE TO BE, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DAYS I WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY HOOKY AND GO TO THE INTERNATIONAL WRITERS FESTIVAL.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT MIGHT INSPIRE YOU.

>>ANNE: THAT'S WHAT I AM THINKING, IT MIGHT GIVE ME AN INCENTIVE TO WRITE FASTER.

>>LORENE: I LOVE GOING TO THEM BECAUSE I LOVE WRITERS LIKE YOURSELF, BUT I HEAR SO MANY KIND OF TRICKS OF THE TRADE AND I REMEMBER SOMEONE WHO HAD WRITTEN ABOUT HEMINGWAY, BUT WHEN HE, AT THAT TIME IT WAS TYPEWRITERS, PUT A BLANK PAGE IN THE TYPEWRITER TO WRITE ABOUT HEMINGWAY AND HE CALLED IT "THE WHITE BULL," NOW I GUESS IT WOULD BE THE "BLUE SCREEN."

YOU MUST ATTACK IT, YOU MUST PUT SOMETHING ON IT.

SO HOW DO YOU KEEP WRITING, I MEAN THIS IS THE EIGHTH BOOK, WONDERFUL THINGS.

DON'T STOP.

>>ANNE: I DON'T KNOW, THAT'S A WONDERFUL QUESTION.

IF I KNEW HOW IT HAPPENED, I WOULD JUST PLUG MY BATTERIES INTO THAT SOCKET ALL THE TIME.

I HAVE A LOT OF NATURAL CURIOSITY AND I AM LUCKY TO HAVE A LOT OF ENERGY AND I THINK THOSE TWO THINGS KIND OF GO TOGETHER.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>ANNE: AND ALSO, I THINK ANY WRITER HAS TO BALANCE THE INTROVERTED SIDE OF OURSELVES BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF TIME BY YOURSELF JUST WITH YOUR IMAGINARY FRIENDS AND THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE EXTROVERTED SIDE WHERE YOU GET TO GO OUT AND TALK TO PEOPLE EITHER AS RESEARCH OR TO CONVINCE THEM THAT THEY OUGHT TO BUY THE BOOK.

AND SO IT IS AN INTERESTING BALANCE BUT I FIND, I LIKE THE QUIET PART BECAUSE I REALLY ENJOY THAT CREATIVE EXPLORATION, BUT I LIKE THE EXTROVERTED PART BECAUSE THEN I MEET PEOPLE AND I LEARN THINGS THAT I WOULD HAVE NEVER LEARNED JUST SITTING IN MY OFFICE AND THAT I WOULD NOT HAVE LEARNED ON THE WORLDWIDE WEB EITHER.

SO IT IS AN INTERESTING BALANCE.

I DON'T KNOW, I JUST FEEL REALLY BLESSED TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS IN KIND OF THE LAST DECADE OR TWO OF MY LIFE.

IT IS JUST REALLY A WONDERFUL GIFT AND I ALWAYS THANK MY DAD, NOT ONLY FOR SETTING UP THE SERIES BUT FOR REALLY ENCOURAGING ME WHEN I WAS A YOUNG PERSON TO BE A WRITER AND TO NOT GET DISCOURAGED IF THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT BUT JUST TO KEEP ON KEEPING ON AND TO KEEP A SENSE OF HUMOR.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

YES, HE WAS REALLY ONE OF OUR NEW MEXICO'S FINEST WRITERS EVER AND I KNOW HOW PROUD HE WOULD BE OF YOU.

WHAT IS THE BOOK THAT YOU ARE WORKING ON NOW, CAN YOU TELL US, WELL I ONLY HAVE A MINUTE.

>>ANNE: I CAN TELL YOU LITTLE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT.

IT IS GOING TO BE A LEAPHORN BOOK, I HAVEN'T WRITTEN A LEAPHORN BOOK FOR A COUPLE OF BOOKS, I THOUGHT IT WAS HIGH TIME TO BRING JOE BACK INTO THE QUEST.

AND JOE IS HIRED BY A WOMAN WHO BELIEVES THAT SHE IS A NAVAJO AND SHE CERTAINLY LOOKS LIKE A CLASSIC NAVAJO BUT SHE WAS ADOPTED BEFORE THE INDIAN CHILD, THE NATIVE CHILD, I AM CONFUSING THE NAME.

THE LAW SAID NATIVE PEOPLE SHOULD BE RAISED IN NATIVE COMMUNITIES.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>ANNE: RATHER THAN ADOPTED BY THE LARGER COMMUNITY.

>>LORENE: THE MIDDLE CLASS WHITE.

>>ANNE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>ANNE: SHE IS ONE, THEY CALL THEM LOST BIRDS AND SHE IS ONE OF THOSE LOST BIRDS.

AND NOW THAT BOTH OF HER PARENTS HAVE DIED, SHE IS LOOKING FOR HER BIRTH MOTHER AND JUST TRYING TO RECONNECT WITH HER NAVAJO ROOTS.

AND SO JOE LEAPHORN IS HELPING HER WITH THAT.

>>LORENE: OH THAT IS SO POIGNANT, I LOOK FORWARD AND I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT GOING ON THESE DAYS.

I AM SO GRATEFUL THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO BE WITH US.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS ANNE HILLERMAN TALKING ABOUT HER WONDERFUL NEW BOOK CALLED THE WAY OF THE BEAR AND, OF COURSE, YOU WILL COME BACK WHEN THE NEXT ONE IS DONE AND I WILL SEE YOU AT THE LITERARY FESTIVAL.

>>ANNE: YOU BET, YOU BET.

THANK YOU, LORENE, IT HAS BEEN A PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: MY PLEASURE, MY PLEASURE.

I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM