>>> PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS TRANSGENDER ACCOUNT FOR ABOUT ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT OF INDIANA'S POPULATION, THESE HOOSIERS, AS A DEMOGRAPHIC SEGMENT, CERTAINLY RECEIVE A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF LEGISLATIVE ATTENTION AND, SOME WOULD ARGUE, LEGISLATIVE ABUSE.. HI.

I'M JON SCHWANTES AND ON THIS WEEK'S SHOW WE'LL EXAMINE SOME OF THE NEARLY 20 "ANTI-TRANS" BILLS THIS SESSION.

CRITICS REFER TO SUCH MEASURES AS THE SLATE OF HATE WHILE SUPPORTERS SAY THEY'RE MOTIVATOR BIT DESIRE TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF PRECIPITATES AND THE HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY THOSE TOO YOUNG TO MAKE LIFE ALTERING DECISIONS.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS, FROM THE STATE HOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

AND JOINING ME TO TALK ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT'S MAKING HEADLINES HERE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR J.D.

FORD OF INDIANAPOLIS., DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS CAMPBELL OF WEST LAFAYETTE, CHRIS PAULSEN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF INDIANA YOUTH GROUP, AN ADVOCATE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHO SELF-IDENTIFY AS LGBTQ-PLUS, AND CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTIVIST MICAH BECKWITH, PASTOR AT LIFE CHURCH ASSEMBLY OF GOD IN NOBLESVILLE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

AS I MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW THIS KIND OF LEGISLATION IS JUST TAKE OFF HERE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ALMOST 20 BILLS HERE, PEOPLE WHO MONITOR THESE THINGS SAY AS MANY AS TWO, 300 BILLS PENDING IN VARIOUS STAGES OF ACCEPTANCE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THIS FLURRY OF ACTIVITY.

>> IT USED TO BE THAT ALL POLITICS WERE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL BUT NOW POLITICS ARE MOVING TO THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND WE'RE SEEING GROUPS LIKE ALECK AND ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM AND OTHER GROUPs PRETTY MUCH HAVE THESE BOILER PLATE BILLS AND LEGISLATURES ARE JUST ATTACKING -- THEY'RE NOT EVEN BEING CREATIVE WITH THE BILLS BUT THEY'RE TAKING THEM AND INTRODUCING THEM IN OTHER LEGISLATURES AND I THINK IT'S FRANKLY EASY FOR THOSE FOLKS TO -- OTHER PEOPLE, AND WAVE AROUND A BILL WHEN THEY GO HOME AND SAY THEY'RE IT'S THEY'RE TAKING CARE OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY AND QUITE FRANKLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS MAKING IT DIFFICULT FOR LGBTQ HOOSIERS WHO ARE JUST THAT, HOOSIERS TRYING TO LIVE OUR LIFE, PAY OUR TAXES AND JUST BE A GOOD CITIZEN OF THE STATE.

>> AND JUST TO BE CLEAR YOU'RE NOT BUYING THE ARGUMENT THAT MANY OF YOUR LEGISLATIVE COLLEAGUES MAKE THAT THIS IS AN ORGANIC ISSUE, THAT THEY'RE HEARING FROM CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE CALLING AND SHOWING UP WITH THE BOOKS THEY FIND OBJECTIONABLE.

>> I DON'T BUY THAT BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE TIME IN COMMITTEE, ON THE FLOOR ASKED FOR, AS THE KIDS SAY RECEIPTS AND WE DON'T GET THEM.

WHERE IS THIS HAPPENING, TELL US SO WE CAN ADDRESS IT BUT THEY SAY OH PEOPLE WITH CALLING AND WRITING AND THAT MIGHT BE TRUE BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S AT THE SAME LEVEL AS WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

>> YOU'RE AGREEING.

HOW MUCH IS ATTRIBUTABLE -- YOUR DISTRICT IS INDIANAPOLIS, YOUR DISTRICT IS WEST LAFAYETTE AND THOSE IF YOU LOOK AT A MAP TEND TO BE BLUE, SORT OF ISLANDS OF BLUE.

IS THAT WHAT IS -- DUNE IF YOU WERE IN A DIFFERENT DISTRICT YOU MIGHT BE HEARING -- OR IS THIS AGAIN ALL BEING MANUFACTURED?

>> WE KNOW THIS LEGISLATION IS COMING FROM SPECIFIC GROUPS, THE LANGUAGE IS THE SAME.

IT'S MULTIPLE SEDATES -- STATES.

IT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE.

>> CHRIS, YOUR ORGANIZATION IS ONE OF THE OLDEST I BELIEVE CONTINUOUSLY EVERYONE OPERATING SO YOU'RE OPERATION HAS SEEN A LOT.

WHY DO YOU THINK THERE'S BEEN -- IT'S NOT AS IF PEOPLE JUST STARTED IDENTIFYING AS TRANSGENDER IN THE LAST YEAR OR TWO.

YOU LOOK AT THE DATA THAT SUGGEST THIS HAS BEEN A PRETTY CONSTANT NUMBER IN TERMS OF THE SEGMENTS OF THE POPULATION.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S SUCH AN ISSUE NOW?

>> I THINK BECAUSE CONSERVATIVES SEE THIS AS AN EASY TARGET.

NOT EVERYONE KNOWS A TRANS PERSON, THESE DAYS EVERYONE KNOWS A GAY OR LESS BEAN PERSON, SO IT'S EASIER TO TARGET PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW, AND IT WINS POLITICAL POINTS.

>>> AND I'VE SOUTHEASTERN THE NATIONAL PUNDITS WHO SAY THIS IS SERVING THE PURPOSE THAT FOR INSTANCE THE PRO-LIFE MESSAGING IN TERMS OF MOBILIZING A CERTAIN CONSTITUENCY OR BASE AND IF THAT IS OFF THE TABLE AT LEAST TEMPORARILY IT ISst IT'S MOVING ON TO SOMETHING ELSE, AND I GUESS -- EXPLAIN THIS TO ME, WHY AGAIN, WE HUMANS HAVE BEEN ON THE PLANET DEPENDING ON YOUR BELIEFS'RE EITHER MISSILE MILLIONS OFFERERS OR 6,000, WHY NOW?

>> I THINK IN 2020 PARENTS SAW WHAT WAS BEING TAUGHT AND THEY WERE APPALLED AT THE MISINFORMATION THAT WAS BEING PUSHED ON THEIR CHILDREN AND SAID THESE RESPECT AREN'T THE VALUES OF MY FAMILY.

INDIANA IS A RED STATE AND WED SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THIS STARTED IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.

NOW, TO PUSH BACK ON THIS IS DIDN'T REALLY HAPPENING I'M ON THE HAMILTON COUNTY LIBRARY BOARD, I SEE WHAT IS BEING PUSHED IN THE KID'S SECTION, AND I HAVE PARENTS COME TO ME IN MY CONGREGATION AND SAY THIS IS WHAT MY CHILD IS LEARN IN SCHOOL, WE'VE SEEN IT FIRSTHAND, SO WE'RE SAYING LET US BE THE ONES WHO DECIDE WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHEREON TO TEACH WHEN IT COMES TO SEXUALITY AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS SUCH A BIG ISSUE.

TAKE SENATE BILL 408 -- 480, I'M SORRY, WE'RE SAYING IF YOU'RE IN FIRST, SECOND OR THIRD GRADE KEEP THE SEXUALITY TO A MINIMUM.

BUT WE'RETH GETTING A BIG PUSH BARB ON THAT EVEN, BUT THIS IS ABOUT WHERE IS TRUTH IN ARE WE GOING TO AFFIRM EVERYTHING A CHILD WANTS OR ARE WE GOING TO SAY NO, THIS IS TRUE AND THIS ISN'T TRUE.

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS: CIRCLE BACK BECAUSE THE WHOLE NOTION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS IS A FASCINATING NOTION.

FOR INSTANCE 480 VERSUS SEEN 1608 -- >> JUST AGAIN FOR THOSE WHO ARE FOLLOWING THIS AND I'M NOT SAYING ALL OF THOSE ARE MOVING TOWARD ENACTMENT, WE HAD THE GOVERNOR SIGN ONE BILL THAT WOULD BASH BAR MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS FROM PROVIDING GENDER AFFIRMING CARE WHETHER IT'S MEDICAL -- I MEAN THE CONCERN WAS SURGICAL BUT WE HEARD TESTIMONY THAT THERE IS NO SUCH SURGERY BEING PERFORMED ON MINORS ANYWAY IN THE STATE OF INDIANA, THAT IT'S PUBERTY BLOCKERS AND OTHER PHARMACEUTICAL TREATMENTS BUT AGAIN WE LOOK AT SNOT PAYING FOR IN MATES HO WANT TO HAVE THOSE PROCEDURES.

IT'S OPENING THE FLOOD GATES PERHAPS OR LET ME NOT USE A LOADED PHRASE, OPENING THE DOOR TO MORE LITIGATION, CIVIL LEG TARGETING INDIVIDUALS.

WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR THE NOTIFICATION OF COMPETITION AT THE HIGH SCHOOL AND GRADUATE SCHOOL LEVEL WHICH THE GOVERNOR VETOED AND CERTAINLY AND CERTAINLY THIS KNOWING OF HARMFUL MATERIALS.

OF ALL OF THESE THINGS IS THERE ONE THAT YOU SEE AS PARTICULARLY INSIDIOUS?

>> I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT ALL OF IT AND THE REASON IS IT'S ALL MANUFACTURED AND THEY'RE VERY GOOD AT TAKING AN ISSUE SUCH AS THE HARMFUL MATERIAL TO CHILDREN BUT THAT THAT BILL THE WORD IN APPROPRIATE WAS USED.

IF THEY WERE TRYING TO GET AT THE MATTER OF THE ISSUE THEY WOULD SAY PORNOGRAPHY, AND YOUR DEFINITION OF IN APPROPRIATE AND MY DEFINITION COULD BE DIFFERENT, AND THE 1608 BILL THAT PASTOR WAS MENTIONING THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF HUMAN SEXUALITY SO IF THERE IS A KID WITH TWO MOMS OR TWO DADDEDS AND THE TEACHER SAYS LET'S HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT YOU DID THIS WEEKEND, AND ONE KID SAYS MY DAD TOOK ME TO THE APPLE ORCHARD THE TEACHER COULDN'T RESPOND AND I THINK IT'S INSULTING TO AN ENTIRE PROFESSION TO SAY THAT TEACHERS ARE TRYING TO PUSH IN APPROPRIATE MATERIAL TO CHILDREN.

>> IT'S THE INDIANA'S VERSION OF DON'T SAY GAY BECAUSE AGAIN K THROUGH THIRD GRADE YOU DON'T ADDRESS THOSE IN THE CURRICULUM AND THEN TEACHERS WOULD HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO NO.

PARENTS IF THERE'S A REQUEST FOR A NEW THE NAME OR PRONOUN.

>> PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GOING TO HARM SO MANY PEOPLE IN OUR STATE BUT TO ME MY REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES SAY THIS IS ABOUT PREJUDICE PARENTAL RIGHTS BUT I THINK IT'S SELECTIVE PARENTAL RIGHTS.

IN THE 1608 BILL THE TEACHER HAS TO NOTIFY THE PARENTS ABOUT A NAME CHANGE BUT SENATE BILL 480 TAKES THE PARENTAL DECISIONS OUT OF THE MIX.

AND EVEN IF YOUR FAMILY HAS COME TOGETHER AND THEY WANT TO AFFIRM A NAME CHAIN AND YOU SEND IN THE INFORMATION ACCORDING TO THE LATEST VERSE OF THE BILL A TEACHER COULD UNDER RELIGIOUSOS ON THE OBJECT TO THAT.

>> HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THOSE TWO?

>> I THINK WE'RE WE DON'T WANT TO DO SOMETHING TO A CHILD THAT'S GOING TO HAVE LONG-TEM CONVENTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO PHYSIOLOGICAL MAKEUP AND 480 IS SAYING WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE AN ADULT TO MAKE LIFE ATTARS DECISIONS.

>> EVEN IF IT'S REVERSIBLE.

>> BUT THAT'S NOT AGREED ON BY MANY.

I KNOW PHARMACISTS WHO SAY OPPOSITE, THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE NONREVERSIBLE.

>> WHAT FACILITY IN THE STATE OF INDIANA IS DOING THESE SURGERIES IS THIS.

>> I'M SAYING THESE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO BE COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND WEARIEDING AHEAD OF THEM.

>> .

THE PHARMACEUTICALS THAT WE'RE.

>> SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBERTY BLOCKERS.

>> THE PUBERTY BLOCKERS.

>> AND THEY'RE BEING ISSUED TO PRO-CONSCIOUS TEENS WHO HAVE ACNE AND OTHER THINGS.

>> THE ACLU SUIT, YOU'RE NOT TARGETING THE PROCEDURE YOU'RE TARGETING HOW IT'S USED.

>> AND THESE MEDICAL PHARMACEUTICALS HAVE BEEN USED FOR DECADES.

THEY'VE BEEN USED SAFELY FOR DECADES.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT THERE.

A LOT OF SCARED PARENTS, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE CONFUSED AND THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF MIXED MESSAGES AND THAT'S NOT HELPFUL FOR THE CHILD, THAT'S THIS THE HELPFUL FOR THE PARENTS WATCH THAT CHILD IS GOING THROUGH, WHAT THE PARENT IS GOING THROUGH THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS AND THOSE NEED TO BE SEPARATE.

AND THE OUTSIDE PUBLIC, YOUR OPINIONS AND YOUR FEELINGS ARE ALSO PLAYED INTO THAT, AND THAT IS SEPARATE, AND ALL OF THESE ARE PLAYING TOGETHER AND CAUSING A LOT OF CONFUSION, A LOT OF MISINFORMATION AND LEADING TO HARMFUL REACTIONS AND INTERACTIONS FOR THE CHILD.

>> I ALSO -- FEEL FREE TO ELABORATE BUT I WANT TO ADD TO THE POINT THAT KIDS MAY NOT BE OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE A DECISION, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ALTERABLE OR NOT.

I LOOKED AT THE DATE I ALLUDED TO EARLIER FROM THE WILLIAMS INSTITUTE, FASCINATING, BREAKS IT DOWN BY SEDATE AND AGES AND GENERAL, FOR INSTANCE IN INDIANA IT'S ONE-HALF OF ONE PERCENT IF YOU LOOK AT 13 UP POPULATION, AND THIS IS NATIONAL PHENOMENON.

THE 13 TO 17 ABLE GROUP IT'S 100 PERCENT HIGHER ACROSS THE BOARD.

SO MY QUESTION IS THIS: , BECAUSE IT DROPS CAN AND THESE ARE UNCHANGING NUMBERS.

DOESN'T IT SUGGEST IS THAT KIDS MAY HAVE AN INTEREST IN TRANSITION AT THAT AGE GROUP BUT SOMEHOW THE ENTHUSIASM DISSIPATES?

CAN THAT BE INFERRED FROM THOSE NUMBERS OR THAT A MISINTERPRETATION?

>> EVERY KID GROWS INTO WHO THEY ARE AND AS ADULTS WE'RE STILL GROWING INTO WHAT WE ARE.

>> SEEMS LIKE THAT WOULD GO THROUGH THE SYSTEM, IS THAT THIS WOULD YOU WOULD HAVE THAT DROPPING FROM ONE PERCENT, BUT IT SEEMS TO ALWAYS DROP.

>> WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT AT WHAT POINT DID YOU KNOW YOUR GENDER IDENTITY?

MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOUNG, THREE OR FOUR, THEY'RE I'M A BOY, I'M A GIRL.

YOU UNDERSTAND THAT INNATELY, SO I THINK IT'S NOT UNUSUAL THAT THOSE NUMBERS DROP BECAUSE THAT'S THE PERIOD THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHO WE ARE.

AND THESE DECISIONS -- I KEEP HEARING KIDS ARE MIXING THESE DECISIONS.

KIDS ARE NOT MAKING THESE DECISIONS, DOCTORS AND PARENTS ARE MAKING THE DECISIONS WITH THE KIDS SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE UNGIRTEDDED.

THERE ARE 27 DIFFERENT MEDICAL SOCIETIES THAT AGREE WITH THAT IS LIFESAVING CARE.

>> INDIANA RIGHT NOW RANKS SECOND IN THE NATION IN YOUTH WHO DIE BY SUICIDE.

>> I'M A MAN THAT PREACHES MERCY AND LOVE, HOW ABOUT THIS NOTION.

YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTICS, -- >> THAT'S THE ARGUMENT THAT'S COMMONLY USED IF YOU DON'T AFFIRM THAT THEY'RE GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE.

SWEDEN ONE OF THE NATIONS THAT'S THE ONLY LONG-TERM STUDY OUT THERE THAT LOOKS AT WHAT GENDER AFFIRMING CARE DOES 15 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD CAN THEY HAVE SEEN SUICIDE RATES HAVEN'T DROPPED AND THEY'RE PULLING BACK ON GENDER AFFIRMING CARE, SO I THINK THAT'S A SCARE TACTIC.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE SAYING IF YOU DON'T AFFIRM THIS CHILD YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEAD CHILD ON YOUR HANDS AND I REJECT THAT.

WE CAN AFFIRM THEM IN A LOVING WAY, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF SOCIETY, WE WANT TO AFFIRM YOU BUT WE ALSO WANT TO SPEAK TRUTH TO YOU AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS WHERE'S THE LINE?

IS THERE EVER GOING TO BE A TRUTH THAT WE SAY TO A THEY SHOULD OR FOURTH GRADER, THIS IS WRONG.

WHAT ABOUT THE ANOREXIC?

YOUR BRAIN TELLS YOU SOMETHING THAT'S SNOT TRUE WE LOVE YOU ENOUGH TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH AND MOVE YOU DOWN A PATH THAT IS GOING TO BE HELPFUL TO YOU IN THE LONG RUN.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT?

>> AS A PARENT, YOU KNOW WE DON'T KNOW HOW OUR CHILDREN ARE FEELING.

THEY ARE EXPRESSING SOMETHING TO US, THEY'RE TRYING TO TELL US SOMETHING.

AS A PARENT WE MAY HAVE OUR OWN FEELINGS AND THOSE ARE OUR FEELINGS, AND IT'S UP TO US TO SEPARATE THOSE FEELINGS.

I KNOW WE'RE GETTING A LOT -- AGAIN, SO MUCH MISS INFORMATION, MEDICAL FACTS AND DATA THAT HAS NOT BEEN ACCEPTED BY THE MEDICAL SOCIETIES OF THE WORLD.

AND WE'RE QUOTING THESE FACTS AS FACTS.

IT'S REALLY -- YOU KNOW, THE PRETRAVEL NEEDS TO -- AND OUR SOCIETY NEEDS TO ACCEPT THAT OUR FEELINGS MAY NOT REFLECT WHAT THAT CHILD IS FEELING AND IT'S UP TO US TO HELP THEM FIGURE OUT WHO THEY ARE.

THE THEY'RE GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT WHETHER YOU REJECT IT OR NOT.

YOU COULD TRY TO PRAY IT OUT, YOU CAN TRY TO CONVINCE THEM, YOU CAN TRY TO ABUSE IT OUT OF THEM.

ALL YOU'RE GOING TO DO IS HURT THEM, MAKE THEM FEEL SHAME, MAKE THEM FEEL GUILT ABOUT HOW THEY'RE FEELING BUT ULTIMATELY THEIR FEELINGS ARE THEIR FEELINGS.

>> WE SEE THAT -- WE KEEP HEARING THIS IS A FALLACY AND IT'S NOT.

UNFORTUNATELY AT INDIANA YOUTH GROUP WE SEE THESE KIDS EVERY DAY WHO ARE NOT AIF I RECALLED BY THEIR PARENTS WHO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE LGBTQ BUT MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT BEING AFFIRMED BY THEIR PARENTS.

>> AND I WOULD SAY TO PASTOR BECKWITH'S COMMENTS THE FACTS DON'T LIE.

IF YOU READ THE INDIANA YOUTH INSTITUTE'S BOOK, IT SHOW THE STATISTICS, AND IT BEARS OUT THAT LGBTQ YOUTH ARE NOT DOING WELL AND I THINK THE PASTOR IS MAKING AN ARGUMENT FOR UNIFORM HEALTH CARE, WHEN HE CITES SWEDEN -- (SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY.)

>> THE ONLY THING I WANT TO SAY AND I HEAR YOU WHEN YOU SAY YOU AFFIRM THEM IN THEIR TRUTH.

>> IN THE TRUTH, NOT THEIR TRUTH.

>> THE REALITY IS THAT EVEN FOR MYSELF WHEN I WAS TRYING TO COME OUT AND TELL MY PARENTS I COULDN'T DO IT AND I KNEW MY MOM AND DAD LOVED ME, I KNEW THEY TOLD ME TO SHOOT FOR THE MOON, LAND ON THE STARS BUT I COULDN'T DO IT AND THAT'S WHAT THESE YOUNG TEENS ARE GOING THROUGH IS THAT IT'S HARD AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S A FACILITY HERE IN INDIANAPOLIS BECAUSE SOME OF THESE KIDS DO COME OUT AND THEY UNFORTUNATELY HAVE TO BE -- THE PARENTS KICK THEM OUT AND THIS HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO LIVE AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A FACILITY HERE IN INDIANAPOLIS TO HELP THEM.

>>> THAT'S THE CRUX OF THIS AND LET ME TRY TO GET CLARITY ON PREJUDICE PARENTAL RIGHTS.

IF YOU HAVE PARENTS WHO ARE NONBELIEFERS AND INSISTED ON RAISING THEIR CHILD AS ALTHOUGH JUST AND THE CHILD WANTED TO GO TO CHURCH WHO SIGNS ON?

>> THE PARENTS ABSOLUTELY.

GOD HAS PLACED THAT CHILD IN THAT HOME AND PRINCE GEORGE'S RIGHT -- PARENTAL RIGHTS HAS TO BE KEY.

I WOULD COME ALONG SIDE -- >>> IF THE PARENT AFFIRMS THE CHILD THEY SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO AFFIRM THAT KID.

>> YOU ALSO AGREE THAT GOD MADE THAT PARTICULAR CHILD IN HIS OR HER IMAGE.

>> 100 PERCENT, WE'RE ALL MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.

>> I'M WILLING TO GO DOWN THE APARTMENT OF SAYING -- I HAVE A SIX-YEAR-OLD WHO WANTS TO BE TO BE A PIRATE, SO WHAT -- [SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY.].

>> IF I WAS GOING TO AFFIRM MY CHILD AND TAKE HEM HIM TO A MEDICAL PROCEDURE TO HAVE HIS LEG CUT OFF -- NOBODY DOES THAT (SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY.)

>> NONBELIEVER OR A DEVIL WORSHIPER -- >> ID SAY LISTEN WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS WRONG.

THE STATE SHOULD NOT INTERVENE.

>> YOU JUST MADE ARGUMENT FOR SENATE BILL 480.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD BUMP THE BRAKES, HOLD FOR A SECOND, WAIT UNTIL THAT CHILD IS 18 AND -- >> [SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY.].

>> SEVEN IT PERCENT OF VOTERS AGREE WITH ME OP ON THIS ISSUE.

A GROUP CAME OUT WITH A STUDY IN 2022 AND THEY SAID 78 PERCENT OF VOTERS AND 96 PERCENT OF VOTERS AND REPUBLICANS AGREE WITH THAT.

87 PERCENT OF INDEPENDENTS -- >> THE DANGER OF CITING POLLS -- [SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY.].

>> LAST A LOT OF DATA OUT THERE.

>> AND YOUR CONSTANTLY CONTRADICTING YOURSELF.

>> NO I'M NOT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE DANGER OF WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE AND YOU SAID WAIT UNTIL YOU'RE 18 AND THERE ARE STATE WHERE THAT WAS PHASE ONE, AND SIX, SEVEN SATE STATES WE'VE SEEN A MOVE TOWARD BANNING THE PROCEDURES, GENDER AFFIRMING PROCEDURES AT ALL AGES.

ARE YOU WORRIED THIS IS JUST -- HATE TO USE THE CLICHE, THE SLIPPERY SLOPE?

>> YES BECAUSE WE SEE THOSE BILL IN OTHER STATES, WE KNOW THEY WILL MOVE HERE NETWORKS.

LIKE SENATOR FORD SAID IT'S A PACKAGE.

>> ARE YOU GOING TO STICK WITH WHAT YOU SAID.

>> I THINK ONCE YOU TURN 18 YOU HAVE ALL THE FREEDOMS THAT ARE AFFORDED TO YOU BY OUR CONSTITUTION WHICH MEANS IF YOU WANT TO GO SCOUT CAN DO SOMETHING I DISAGREE WITH YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAYBE THOSE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT YOU AND I'M NOT GOING TO ASK THE GOVERNMENT TO STEP IN.

>> YOU HAVE SOMEBODY TO TESTIFY.

I KNOW YOU SAID YOU DON'T LIKE THIS, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING HERE THAT YOU SEE ANY MIDDLE GROUND?

WHAT ABOUT USING TAX DOPPLER RADAR DOLLARS TO PAY FOR GENERAL GENDER REASSIGNMENT OF IN METALS?

>> IT'S NOT HAPPENING, THEY ARE LITERALLY MONITORING A HUNDRED PEOPLE IN THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS WHO HAVE THEIR IN TAKE FORM -- >> YOU'RE FLIPPING THE ARGUMENT BACK, IT'S NOT HAPPENING GO AHEAD AND FORBID MONEY BEING USED FOR IT.

>> SURE WE CAN DO THAT AND THE ACLU WILL SUE AND IT WILL COST MORE MONEY TO PAY THE LAWSUIT THAN DO THE SURGERY.

>> AND IT I WOULD SAY A LOT OF THESE BILLS ARE ON A WITCH HUNT AND THERE ARE NO WITCHES AND LET'S PUT THE BRAKES ON GETTING THE LIGHTER OUT.

>> FINAL WORD.

>> SO TWO THINGS, ONE, NONE OF THE REPUBLICANS CAME TO THIS PANEL TO DEFEND THESE BILLS.

(SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY.)

>> WE DID INVITE SPONSOR -- >> THANK YOU TO PASTOR BECKWITH BUT THE OVER THING I WILL SAY IS GOVERNOR HOLCOMB SAID IT'S CLEAR AS MUD AND THEN HE SIGNED IT SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

I TELL YOU WHAT, GREAT DISCUSSION, YOU ALL BRING UP A LOT OF GREAT POINTS AND THE PASSION IS PALPABLE AND I APPLAUD THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO MAKE PROGRESS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH T. AGAIN MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN DEMOCRATIC SENATOR J.D.

FORD OF INDIANAPOLIS., DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS CAMPBELL OF WEST LAFAYETTE, CHRIS PAULSEN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF INDIANA YOUTH GROUP, AN ADVOCATE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WHO SELF-IDENTIFY AS LGBTQ-PLUS, AND CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTIVIST MICAH BECKWITH, PASTOR AT LIFE CHURCH ASSEMBLY OF GOD IN NOBLESVILLE.

TIME NOW FOR OUR WEEKLY CONVERSATION WITH INDIANA LAWMAKERS ANALYST ED FEIGENBAUM, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWS LETTER INDIANA LEGISLATIVE INSIGHT, PART OF HANNAH NEWS SERVICE.

ED, I MEAN WE COULD TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE BUT THERE ARE SO MANY BILLS, SOME SIGNED, SOME STILL PENDING WE WON'T GET IN THE WEEDS THERE BUT THERE ARE OTHER BIG ISSUES THAT WE WOULD BE REMISS IF WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT.

>> OTHER THAN CULTURE WARS.

>> TAX WARS.

>> WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING THIS PEEK.

>> IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH PROPERTY TAX REFORM, PROPERTY TAX RELIEF.

THE HOUSE RESEARCHES, THE HOUSE MAJORITY WANTS TO.

POSE IMPOSE SOME KIND OF PROPERTY TAX RELIEF UNDERSTANDING THAT PROPERTY TAX BILLS IN A NUMBER OF COUNTIES HAVE GONE UP BY TEN PERCENT, 20 PERCENT, ESSENTIALLY DUE TO INCREASES IN ASSESSED VALUES.

THE SALES OF HOMES ARE AFFECTING THE ASSESSED VALUE ANDS AND THEY WANT TO GIVE TAX PAYERS RELIFE -- >> NOW ONE PERCENT FOR PRIMARY RESIDENTS.

>> THE ONE, TWO, THREE CAP SO THEY'RE TRYING TO OFFER PROPERTY TAX PAYERS SOME RELIEF, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TAX PAYERS.

THE SENATE MAJORITY PREFERS TO PAY DOWN DEBT, MAKE SURE WE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PENSION OBLIGATIONINGS AND THEY SLAPPED DOWN THEIR COLLEAGUES IN THE HOUSE THIS WEEK BY SAYING NO, WE WANT TO DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN PROPERTY TAX RELIEF AND WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO DO IT THE WAY THE HOUSE WANTS TO DO IT.

AND ON TOP OF THAT WE SAW A WEEK AGO THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND THE RANK AND FILE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP ON SOME OF THE HOSPITAL TAX ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP HAS BEEN BIG ON HOSPITAL PROFITS AND IN THE DEPARTMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE BILL THERE'S NOW A PROVISION THANKS TO THE SENATE THAT ESSENTIALLY ALL HEALTH CARE PROPERTIES, REAL PROPERTIES WILL BE ALLOWED PROPERTY TAX RELIEF, WON'T BE SUBJECT TO PROPERTY TAXES.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A BIG FIGHT ON THAT.

>> BECAUSE YOU HAD WHAT WAS SHAPING UP TO BE DISASTERROUS.

>>> THE AMERICAN DREAM IS WITH A PICKET INTELLIGENCE, IS THAT BEING UNACHIEVABLE?

WE'LL BRING IT ALL HOME ON THE NEXT INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

ON BEHALF OF ED FEIGENBAUMING I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND I INVITE YOU TO VISIT WFYI.ORG FOR MORE