♪ >> WELCOME BACK.

OUR GUEST THIS WEEK IS FORMER STATE SCRANL SENATOR WHO IS NOW A COUNTY PROSECUTOUR.

COVIDS NUMBERS ARE OFF THE CHARTS IN MICHIGAN WE ARE NUMBER 1.

NOBODY LIKES IT.

ON THE OTR PANEL STAY WITH US AS WE GET "OFF OF THE RECORD" NORTH DAKOTA OUT MICHTGAN TO BE A TOP 10 10 STATE.

LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN's ROAD TO TOP 10.COM.

NOW, THIS EDITION OF "OFF-THE-RECORD WITH TIM C BA SKUBICK.

HAPPY SPRING BREAK.

WE HAVE CHAD LIVENGOOD AND RICK PLUDAN IN A SQUARE.

YOU HAVE A HEAD COLD, MR. NGOOD?

>> YEAH.

FIRST TIME IN A YEAR.

>> IT'S AFFECTING YOUR HEARING, TOO.

LET'S START WITH YOU SINCE YOU ARE THE GUY THAT'S SICK HERE TALK TO US ABOUT COVID.

THE NUMBERS ARE ROTTEN.

AREN'T THEY?

>> YEAH.

WE ARE AT 5,000 CASES A DAY RIGHT NOW, TERM.

WE ARE ABOUT 2500 HOSPITALIZATIONS, JUST FOR PERSPECTIVE, WE TOPPED OUT AT 8,000 CASES A DAY ON THE SEVEN-DAY AVERAGE BACK IN LATE NOVEMBER, EARLY DECEMBER, WHEN WE HAD THE FALL SURGE.

THE SURGE RATE NOW IS NOT QUITE AS PRONOUNCED AND AS FAST AS THE SURGE IN THE FALL, BUT IT'S NOT -- IT'S SHOWING NO SIGNS OF ABATING RIGHT NOW.

AND WE ARE GETTING TO A POINT WHERE WE ARE GOING TO START SEEING SOME OVERLOADED HOSPITALS HERE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS, AND THE ONLY THING WE ARE SEEING DIFFERENTLY NOW IS THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IS LOWER.

THAT'S A RESULT OF THE VACCINATIONS.

THE SEVEN-DAY AVERAGE IS ABOUT 22 DEATHS, WITH ON SOME PERSPECTIVE BACK AT THE PEAK OF EARLY DECEMBER, WE WERE AT ALMOST 120 DEATHS A DAY.

SO, THE VACCINE IS SHOWING IT'S WORKING.

FEWER PEOPLE ARE DYING IN NURSING HOMES.

FEWER OLDER PEOPLE IN GENERAL ARE A DYING AND FEWER ARE BEING HOSPITALIZED.

THE HOSPITALIZATION SPIKES WE ARE SEEING ARE PEOPLE IN THEIR 30S AND 40S WHO MAY NOT HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO BE VACCINATED YET.

BUT NOW, STARTING NEXT WEEK, ANYBODY CAN GET A VACCINE IN MICHIGAN.

>> WHY DOES MICHIGAN STAND OUT.

THERE ARE OTHER STATES WHO HAVE NO RESTRICTIONS WHO ARE NOT AS BAD OFF AS WE ARE.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

>> I THINK IT'S HARD TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT MAKES MICHIGAN DIFFERENT THAN OTHER STATES.

MITCH IS ALSO, YOU KNOW, DEALING WITH THE VIRUS AS ANY OTHER STATE IS.

AND THERE IS CHALLENGES IN EVERY STATE.

THE MAIN FOCUS RIGHT NOW FROM THE ADMINISTRATION's PERSPECTIVE IS TO GET VACCINES AND SHOTS IN ARMS ESSENTIALLY.

THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY MAJOR MOVEMENT TO CHANGE THE RESTRICTIONS AT THIS JUNCTURE EITHER IN ONE DIRECTION OR THE OTHER.

SO, I THINK IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHETHER THAT CHANGES, WHETHER THE NUMBERS ARE CONCERNING ENOUGH TO MOVE THE BALL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

BUT I THINK IT DOES -- IT DOES -- IT BASICALLY AT THIS POINT, THE FOCUS IS ON GETTING MORE VACCINATIONS OUT THERE.

CHAD SAID THIS IS NOW AFFECTING YOUNGER INDIVIDUALS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN IT, PERHAPS, HAD IN THE PAST AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THOSE NUMBERS AND JUST SEEING, YOU KNOW, HOW THE STATE RESPONDS.

>> RICKY?

>> SURE.

IT'S, WE ARE NOT HEARING ANY SIGNALS THAT RESTRICTIONS ARE GOING TO BE REIMPOSED.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE WHITMER ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING THAT THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR THAT, WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S A RACE BETWEEN VACCINATIONS AND VARIANTS BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT'S DRIVING THE NUMBERS SKYWARD AS CHAD AND LAUREN MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THE GOOD NEWS I SUPPOSE THAT MIGHT BE GLEANED FOR THIS WAS THERE WAS A HIERARCHY AM.

OLDER PEOPLE WERE GIVEN VACCINATIONS FIRST.

PEOPLE WHO WERE VULNERABLE BECAUSE OF SOME HEALTH CONDITION WERE MOVED TO THE FRONT OF THE TLINL WHICH WAS NOT TO SAY IT WAS A LOT, YOU KNOW, JUST A SLEEK, SMOOTH RUNNING OPERATION.

SO THAT'S SORT OF THE LIFE BOAT THAT WE HAVE BEEN -- THE LIFE JACKET THAT WE HAVE BEEN THROWN AT THE MOMENT.

>> PEOPLE WHO KICKED AROUND WHAT WILL THE ADMINISTRATION DO.

IS THE OPTION OF SHUTTING US DOWN AGAIN NOT AN OPTION AT ALL.

>> I DON'T THINK YOU CAN TAKE IT OFF OF THE TABLE COMPLETELY.

THE GOVERNOR IS NEVER GOING TO OBVIOUSLY GIVE UP ANY POWERS HERE, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT'S THE DIRECTION SHE WILL GO.

I HAD AN INTERVIEW WITH HER AND SHE SAID I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE STRATEGY.

SHE IS HEARING FROM BOTH SIDES, PEOPLE WHO SAY WE OUGHT TO SHUT DOWN AND THEN SHE IS HEARING FROM PEOPLE, WE OUGHT TO KEEP OPENING UP.

THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WHO WANT HER TO OPEN RESTAURANTS EVEN FURTHER TO 100% CAPACITY.

YOU KNOW, JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, THERE WAS A BIG, YOU KNOW, CHORS FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO OPEN UP OFFICE SPACE.

THAT HAS DIED DMOUNT LAST WEEK OR TWO AS WE HAVE SEEN THE SURGE HAPPEN HERE.

THE GOVERNOR IS GETTING IT FROM BOTH ENDS RIGHT NOW.

SHE IS SAYSING KEEP THE RESTAURANTS LIMITED TO 50%, GO IN, YOU KNOW, STAY OPEN PAST 10:00 O'CLOCK, BARS AND SUCH, SHE RESISTED LAST WEEK A CALL FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR HER TO OPEN UP -- EASE THE BAR RESTRICTIONS ON 10:00 P.M. FOR THE MICHIGAN OOKLA GAME.

WASN'T GOING TO GIVE IN TO THAT EITHER.

I THINK THEY WILL STICK TO THIS CURRENT REGIMEN AND TRY TO KEEP THE VACCINES GOING.

SHE OBVIOUSLY INCREASES THE DAILY GOAL FOR SHOTS IN ARMS FROM 50,000 TO 100,000.

YOU HAVE SEEN SOME REAL GOOD SUGGESTIONS WITH THESE MASS VACCINATION COLLIN YOUICS, FORD FIELD, OVER 5,000 A DAY.

THIS JOINT EFFORT BETWEEN SPECTRUM AND THE KENT COUNTY HEALTH GARMENTS, A BIG COLLABORATIVE EFFORT THERE.

THEY HAVE BEEN DOING 12,500 SHOTS ONE DAY THIS PAST WEEK.

ADD D HE EVOSS PLACE.

THIS IS THE STRATEGY.

KEEP GETTING VACCINATIONS IN PEOPLES' ARMS AND TRY TO TELL PEOPLE YOU'VE REALLY GOT TO.

>> HERE IS THE BUGABOO THE HALF OF THE STATE WILL BE DOWN IN FLORIDA TAKING WHAT WE HAVE GOT DOWN TO THEM AND THEN BRINGING BACK WHAT THEY'VE GOT BACK TO US.

IS THAT NOT AN "X" FACTOR THAT WILL KEEK THE GOVERNOR AWAKE AT NIGHT?

WE WILL HAVE BAD NUMBERS AFTER SPRING BREAK?

>> THE PROSPECT OF TRAVEL IS CONCERNING ESPECIALLY AS PEOPLE ARE TRAVELING TO, AS YOU SAID, DOWN SOUTH AND POTENTIALLY BRINGING IT BACK WITH THEM OR TAKING IT DOWN THERE.

TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE COME UP ISN'T THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC.

THERE IS NOT A LOT THAT CAN BE DONE FOR RESTRICTION OF TRAVEL.

IT'S KIND OF A WAIT AND SEE AND, AS CHAD SAID, THE STRATEGY IS TO GET THE VACCINE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

THAT'S THE BEST APPROACH.

WE WILL SEE HOW THE NUMBERS CHANGE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS ESPECIALLY IF THE TRAVELING HAS ANY EFFECT ON IT.

I THINK THE MAIN CHALLENGE MOVING FORWARD IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, CONVINCING CONVINCING -- CONVINCING A MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION THAT THE VACCINE IS NECESSARY AND SHUTTED GET IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND, ALSO, YOU KNOW, ENSURING THAT PEOPLE WHO -- PEOPLE ARE TAKING THE VIRUS SERIOUSLY, EVEN AS MORE PEOPLE GET VACCINATED.

>> RICK, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON ANN HARBOUR.

WHAT'S THE TEMPERATURE ON THIS STORY?

FADING AWAY OR GETTING WORSE?

>> IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY TIME RON WISER SAYS SOMETHING, HE MAKES IT WORSE, THAT THE -- THERE IS GROWING PRESSURE WITHIN THE BOARD OF REGENTS.

HE IS ON THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN BOARD OF REGENTS.

FOR HIM TO RESIGN OR DELIVER, AT THE VERY LEAST, A SINCERE APOLOGY, WHICH HE HAS YET TO, YOU KNOW, WHICH HE HAS YET TO EFFECTIVELY DO.

BUT AS THE CHAIR OF THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY, THIS BECOMES A NEEDLESS DISTRACTION AS THEY ARE TRAY TO GO PREPARE FOR THE UPCOMING ELECTION AND TAKE ON A WHOLE SLATE OF DEMOCRATS AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

HE IS NOT MAKING IT EASIER WITH ANY OF THE COMMENTS ON THAT HE'S MADE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THE EXECUTIVE OFFICERS, ALL OF WHOM ARE FEMALE, ALL OF WHOM HE HAS CALLED WITCHES.

>> CHAD, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THIS STORY?

WHERE IS IT HEADED?

>> IS THE DONOR CLASS GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEND CHECKS TO THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY?

IF NOT, HE BECOMES THE WEISER REPUBLICAN PARTY WHERE HE WILL HAVE TO BANK ROLL THIS HIMSELF, THE OPERATIONS OF IT, IF SOME OF THE, YOU KNOW, DONORS LIKE THE DEVOSS FAMILY AND SUCH SIT IT OUT IN SOME KIND OF PROTEST OF RON's LEADERSHIP.

I THINK THAT'S THE STORY TO KIND OF LOOK FOR AND WATCH AS THEY GO FORWARD.

DOES THAT TRICKLE DOWN INTO THE SENATE OR HOUSE REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN COMMITTEES?

>> DOES THAT AFFECT THE GUBNATORIAL CANDIDATES TO GET OFF OF THE GROUND OR A COUPLE TO GET INTO A RACE HERE TO MAKE SOME KIND OF A PRIMARY?

AT THIS POINT, EVERYONE IS JUST KIND OF SITTING AROUND WAITING FOR, YOU KNOW, RON WEISER TO EITHER MAKE A DECISION ON WHAT WHETHER HE IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE IN OFFICE AS A BOARD REGENT BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A CONSIDERABLE WATCH HEAR ABOUT WHETHER WEISER CAN SURVIVE HIS TERM AS CHAIR MANUAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> THE OTHER PART YOU WANT TO WATCH ARE THE CHECKBOOKS AIMED AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN WHAT IF THE BIG DONORS SAY WE WILL SHUT OFF ALL OF THE SPIGOT OF MONEY AND THEN HE HAS A PROBLEM.

DOES HE NOT, LAUREN?

>> I THINK YOU ARE ALREADY SEEING WITHIN THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN COMMUNITY SOME PRETTY BIG ISSUES.

1800 FACULTY MEMBERS HAVE SIGNED ONTO A LETTER CONDEMNING THE COMMENTS.

THERE HAVE JUST BEEN A LOT OF BLOWBACK IN ANN ARBOR.

IT'S A HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC COMMUNITY BUT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN IS A HUGE, HUGE PART OF THE STATE'S ECONOMY AND JUST A MAJOR UNIVERSITY.

AND SO I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT AT SOME POINT, YES, THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN IS GOING TO HAVE TO CONTEND WITH THESE COMMENTS.

AT THIS POINT, HE IS NOT JUST A REGENT.

HE CAN'T SEPARATE THOSE TWO PARTS OF HIS LIFE, YOU KNOW, HIS REPUBLICAN ACTIVISM AS A REGENT.

IT'S OBVIOUSLY BLEEDING OVER INTO THAT.

SO, I THINK THAT THERE WILL CONTINUE TO BE PRESSURE IN THAT ARENA.

>> IF NORMALLIES, THIS STORY HAS UNDERSCORED A POINT THAT WE HAVE MADE ON THIS PROGRAM NUMEROUS TIMES.

HAD THIS EVENT HAPPENED 40 YEARS AGO, IT WOULD HAVE MAYBE BEEN A ONE-DAY STORY.

BUT THANKS TO SOCIAL MEDIA, NOW, HERE WE ARE ON ALMOST DAY 8 OF THE STORY DRAGGING ON.

AND THE OUTCOME IS YET TO BE DETERMINED.

ALL RIGHT.

LET'S CALL IN OUR GUEST TODAY, PETER LECIDO, FORMER SENATOR AND MCCONNELL COUNTY PROSECUTOR.

GOOD MORNING.

>> GOOD MORNING TO THE PANEL.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EASTER WEEKEND WITH MAE.

>> IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON BOARD.

JUMP IN HERE.

SHOULD RON WEISER RESIGN.

>> IT'S UP TO HIM.

I CAN'T SPEAK TO HIM.

I CAN ONLY SPEAK TO WHAT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AND THE REGENTS ARE GOING TO DO WHICH THEY WANT TO GO AHEAD AND HAVE AT LEAST THE OPPORTUNITY OF DISCUSSING THIS.

THEY WILL HAVE THAT DISCUSSION REAL SOON.

>> IF YOU WERE ON THE BOARD, WOULD YOU VOTE TO BOOT HIM OUT.

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW ALL OF THE FACTS OTHER THAN THE STATEMENTS THAT WERE MADE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE REPERCUSSIONS IS WHAT YOU ALL TALKED ABOUT.

IT'S WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS GOING TO BE ANY INTRINSIC VALUE AFTER AFTERWARDS AFTERWARDS.

WISER WILL SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

>> WERE HIS REMARKS INAPPROPRIATE, SIR?

.

>> WITCHES?

I DON'T KNOW.

AS FAR AS THE DONORS GO, LIKE YOU ALL SAID, IF THE WITCHES THAT HE CLAIMS ARE THERE, THE DONE ORS WAYS MAY DIMINISH OFFICE IF THEY FEEL IT WAS INBROPT.

>> DID YOU FEEL THE STATEMENT WAS INAPPROPRIATE.

>> I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT, JIM.

YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO AHEAD AND SEE WHETHER OR NOT THE TEMPERATURE THAT WAS STATED, WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATE.

I MEAN CALLING SOMEBODY A WITCH, WAS IT IN JEST OR SOMETHING THAT WAS SERIOUSLY TAKEN?

I DON'T KNOW.

IF IT WAS A JOKING MATTER.

BUT HE DID APOLOGIZE, WHETHER IT'S SINCERE OR NOT IS UP TO THE LISTENER.

>> MR. LIVENGOOD?

>> PETE, WHAT ABOUT HIS COMMENT THAT MAYBE THE ONLY WAY TO GET READ OF MYER AND UPTON TWO REPUBLICANS IN WEST MICHIGAN IS ASSASSINATION?

I MEAN WAS THAT IN JEST?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

AGAIN, I WASN'T THERE.

I DIDN'T SEE THE TENOR OF THE DISCUSSIONS AND IT'S UP TO HIM.

AGAIN, HE MADE THE STATEMENTS.

ONLY HE CAN SPEAK FOR HIMSELF.

BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU MAKE POINTS AND AT THE END, THEY HAVE TO LIVE UP TO THOSE STATEMENTS.

EVERYBODY THAT MAKES A STATEMENT TODAY IS BEING CRITICIZED FOR HOW THE STATEMENT WAS MADE, WAS IT MADE IN JEST?

WAS IT MADE IN AN INAPPROPRIATE MANUNER MANNER?

IT'S ALL RELATIVE TO WHO THE SPEAKER IS.

>> LAUREN?

>> SO I WOULD LIKE TO GET INTO A RECENT CRITICISM THAT SOME LEGAL OATHICS EXPERTS CRITICIZED YOUR STATEMENTS ON NURSING HOMES AND YOUR PREVIOUS COMMENTS AND ASKING YOU TO RECUSE YOURSELF FROM CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS RELATED TO THE GOVERNOR'S HANDLING OF NURSING HOME ISSUES.

WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?

>> THE LOSS OF LIFE WAS IN THE SENIORS' COMMUNITY 34% OF OUR STATE.

THE HIGHEST NUMBERS IN McCOMB COUNTY 38% FROM LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES.

OUR GOVERNOR WAS A PROSECUTOR FOR SIX MONTHS, ALBEIT A SHORED PERT OF TIME, SHE KNOWS THE -- THAT THE INVESTIGATORY BRANCH IS THE POLICE OFFICERS, THE DETECTIVE BUREAUS.

THEY GATHER THE INFORMATION.

I WANTED TO GET A DEATH REVIEW BOARD BECAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR A POLICE OFFICER TO HAVE BASIC SKILL AND KNOWLEDGE OF HOW AN ELDERLY DIED AND WHAT THE PROTOCOL WAS TO THEIR DEATH.

LET'S BE REAL.

WE HAVE ALREADY A BABY DEATH REVIEW BOARD IN THE STATE.

WE HAVE HAD IT HERE IN McCOMB COUNTY FOR 21 YEARS.

IF WE DON'T EN PANEL JUROR ATRIC DOCTORS, MEDICAL DOCTORS THAT TAKE CARE OF ELDERLY AS WELL AS THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES THAT SERVE ON THIS COMMITTEE FOR A TEAM DEATH REVIEW AS WELL AS LAURA BECAUSE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO INSPECT THESE NURSING HOMES GO OUT AND MAKE SURE THEY WERE COVID-READY, IF YOU WILL, FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO INEXPECT TO SEE THAT EVERYTHING WAS DONE APPROPRIATELY AND THE POLICY WAS DONE BY DHHS.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THEY DIDN'T LOOK AT EVERYTHING BECAUSE PEOPLE DIED AND THAT'S HOW -- I HAVE A GOT 2,000 PLUS E-MAILS FROM CALLS -- PHONE CALLS, LETTERS.

IVE AN ADDITIONAL AT LEAST A DOZEN COMPLAINTS THAT WERE FILED WITH POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT.

WHAT ARE THE REST OF OUR COUNTIES DOING THAT RECEIVE THESE INQUIRIES OR CAUSE FOR INVESTIGATION?

JUST TURNING A BLIND EYE AND SAYING, NO, WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT?

I HOPE THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

YOU ALL ARE VERY WELL AWARE WHEN I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT I ASKED FOR AN INVESTIGATION.

>> THE INTENT OF THE QUESTION HERE IS THAT YOU'VE MADE SOME PREJUDICIAL COMMENTS ABOUT THE GOVERNOR.

SO HOW CAN YOU SIT IN JUDGMENT OF HERE IF YOU HAVE ALREADY PRE-JUDGED HERE?

.

>> YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHEN THESE ALLEGED -- AS YOU SAID, TIM, PREJUDICIAL COMMENTS WERE MADE.

I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

I WAS CRITICAL OF THE POLICY.

IN FACT, I CHANGED THE POLICY AND SHE SIGNED IT INTO LAW.

THAT POLICY WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, WAS QUESTIONABLE BY EVERYONE INCLUDING BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

THE FACT THAT THREE DEMOCRATS WENT AHEAD AND FILED A COMPLAINT WITH THE ATTORNEY GRIEVANCE COMMISSION, YOU HAVE TO WOULD NOTER, IN THREE DIFFERENT STATES, THAT BEING PENNSYLVANIA, MINNESOTA AND MICHIGAN, WHERE DID THESE THREE COME FROM?

HOW DID THEY GET TOGETHER?

YOU KNOW, DID THEY ALL THINK ABOUT PETE LICIDOS STATEMENT AS IT RELATES TO AT THE TIME?

AND WHY DID THEY BLAST IT TO THE MEDIA?

WHO HAD THE MEDIA LIST?

AND THEN THEY CALL A PRESS CONFERENCE.

IF THESE ARE TRULY ETHICS PROFESSORS, AS THEY CLAIM THEY ARE, WHY WOULD THEY BE BLASTING THINGS TO THE MEDIA?

MAKING IT SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE TO DO THIS BUT AT THE VERY END, MISQUOTE ALL STATEMENTS OF THE DISCIPLINARY OR THE ETHICS OBVIOUS XWATIONS.

THEY ARE MISQUOTING THE STATEMENTS THAT ARE MADE IN OUR ETHICS FOR THETERIAN GRIEVANCE COMMISSION TO REVIEW.

I AM HAPPY TO ADDRESS THAT.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, I ASKED FOR THEM TO GO ON A TELEVISION PROGRAM, AND THEY REFUSED.

NOW, WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

WHO HIRED THEM?

WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS?

AND WHAT IS THEIR MOTIVE FOR GETTING TOGETHER AND SENDING IT OUT TO THE MEDIA AS WELL AS HOLDING A NEWS CONFERENCE?

IS THERE A MOTIVE?

AND THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING, MOTIVE.

THERE HAS GOT TO BE A REASON.

ARE THEY GETTING PAID FOR THIS?

>> WELL, ON THAT PARTICULAR SUBJECT, ONE OF THE STANDARD PRACTICES IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL's OFFICE AND A LOT OF PROGRESS CUTERS OFFICES TO SET UP A FIREWALL BETWEEN YOU AND THE ACTUAL INQUIRY.

DOES THAT SORT OF FIREWALL EXIST?

>> ABSOLUTELY, RICK.

THANKS FOR THAT BECAUSE I SET UP A FORM-BASED, WEB-BASED FORM FOR ANYONE TO FILL OUT.

I WANTED TO MAKE IT EASY.

YOU ALL ARE REMEMBERING THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE U.S. ATTORNEY AS WELL AS MY ORGANIZATION THAT I BELONG TO, THE PROSECUTORS' ASSOCIATION OF MICHIGAN SAID THAT THIS IS BETTER CHARGED WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL's.

AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL's OFFICE HAS DECLINED TO GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THESE QUESTIONS THAT ARE ASKED OF LOVED ONES TO GET SOME CLOSURE AND HEALING.

MY FIREWALL, RICK, IS IT IS GOING TO WEB BASE AND GOING TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

THEY DO ALL OF THE INVESTIGATION.

THEY DO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE GATHERING.

THEN IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THEY GO TO THE DEATH REVIEW BOARD AND ASK THE QUESTIONS WHETHER OR NOT OTHER HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES OR ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES WERE ALL OF THE STANDARDS IN THE INDUSTRY FOLLOWED?

WERE THEY DONE APPROPRIATELY?

WERE THE PEOPLE INSIDE MEDICALLY TRAINED TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE?

WAS THERE ANY DEFICIT BY NOT GOING AHEAD AND INSPECTING TIMELY THESE FACILITIES.

EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO LOOK AT -- >> LET'S GO AHEAD WITH THE DECISION TO BRING A CRIMINAL CASE.

ARE YOU -- AS DECISION-MAKER.

>> THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AS GOVERNOR WHIT MEMBER HAS INDICATED IN HER OWN STATEMENTS IN THE INVESTIGATION OVER AT THE MICHIGAN STATE, THE EVIDENCE HAS TO COME TO HER AS A PROSTHE CUTING ATTORNEY.

SHE DOESN'T GO GET THE EVIDENCE.

YOU ARE ALLOWED TO GO AHEAD AND SEEK INFORMATION, LIKE I HAVE.

AT THE END, THE WARREN COMMISSION IN THE PROSECUTE ORS OFFICE HAS TO SEE IF THE ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME HAVE BEEN MET TO SIGN A WARRANT FOR SOMEBODY's ARREST.

>> MR. LIVENGOOD?

>> PETE, I WANT TO ASK ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES IN LAST YEAR IN THE STATE SENATE WHEN THREE WOMEN CAME FORWARD AND ACCUSED YOU OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT WHY DID YOU NEVER PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE TO ALL THREE OF THIS WOMEN AFTER THE SENATE BUSINESS OFFICE SAID THAT THE THAT THAT MORE LIKELY THAN NOT EACH OF THESE INCIDENTS OCCURRED AS REPORTED BY THE ACCUSERS.

>> TWO YEARS AGO, I HAD INDICATED IF THEY MISINTERPRET OR IF THEY FELT THAT THEY WERE OFFENDED, I SAID THAT I'M SORRY.

UNFORTUNATELY, THEY DON'T ACCEPT THAT.

THEY CONTINUE TO GRIND AND DRILL.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT WAS UNFOUNDED, AND I WANT TO MOVE ON.

THIS IS JUST ANOTHER SCENARIO THAT KEEPS GOING AND GOING AND GOING.

I GUESS THE REALITY IS: WHAT IS THE MOTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO CONTINUE THIS?

I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT THEY INTERPRETED, WHICH WAS MAKE A STATEMENT.

AND THE BOYS THAT WERE INTERVIEWED FROM THE SCHOOL AS WELL AS EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WENT ON, NOBODY COULD FIND ANYTHING.

AND I WONDER IF WE COULD OPEN THE FILE AT THIS POINT, CHAD.

WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE FINDINGS BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE WAS NOTHING COHESIVE THAT MADE ANY SENSE ANYWAYS.

BUT THANKS FOR THE QUESTION.

>> NO.

DOWDEN THAT YOU PUT YOUR HAND ON SENATOR McMORAL's UPPER BUTTOX?

IT SAYS IT HERE IN BLACK AND WHITE.

THIS IS WHAT THE SENATE INVESTIGATORS HEARD.

THESE WERE CREDIBLE ALLEGATIONS AND MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, THEY HAPPENED.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT, CHAD, WHY DON'T YOU GET THE FILE?

I KNOW THIS IS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED.

IT WAS FROM THE BEGINNING.

AFTER WE HAD THE OFF-THE-RECORD ON JUNE 10TH, YOU WERE ON THE SHOW, CHAD.

THE NEXT WEEK, THE GOVERNOR, THESE ARE ALL OF HER ALLIES.

LET'S CALL IT THAT.

IN ADDITION, SHE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH THE FIRST ALLEGED ACCUSER AT THIS POINT AND SHE MADE -- I WOULD THINK GROSS, EFFECTIVE GROSS STATEMENTS AS IT RELATES TO THAT INDIVIDUAL's COMMENTS, WHICH WERE INAPPROPRIATE.

AND AT THIS POINT HERE, I THINK THAT -- >> LAWEN?

>> DONOHUE APPROACHED YOU TO INTERVIEW YOU ABOUT A DIFFERENT SUBJECT.

I WAS THERE.

>> SHE WON'T COMMUNICATE WITH ME ANYMORE.

IF SHE MAKES THIS ALLEGATION, SHE SHOULD STAY AWAY.

IN FACT, SHE IS TRYING TO REACH OUT AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

I WANTED TO TELL EVERYBODY, LOOK.

IT'S BEST IF YOU STAY ON YOUR CITED AND I WILL STAY ON MINE.

>> BUT PETER, SHE SAID YOU MADE A SEXUALLY DEROGATORY COMMENT IN FRONT OF A BUNCH OF HIGH SCHOOL SCHOOL BOYS.

>> NOT TRUE.

IT'S ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE.

ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE AND UNFOUNDED.

YOU KNOW THAT.

SHAME ON YOU.

SHAME ON YOU.

IT WAS UNFOUNDED THAT THAT STATEMENT WAS EVEN MADE.

IT WAS MORE LIKELY THAT THAT IS NOT EVEN A STANDARD THAT THEY HAVE IN THE SENATE BUSINESS OFFICE AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO OPEN THE FILE AND TAKE A LOOK FOR YOURSELF.

SHAME ON YOU.

IT'S TOTALLY UNTRUE.

>> PROSECUTOR, I AM A LITTLE CONFUSED THAT THE MAJORITY LEADER's OFFICE DID FIND, YOU KNOW, AS CHAD POINTED OUT, THAT IT'S MORE LIKELY THAN NOT THAT SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE HAPPENED AND THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO UNDERGO TRAINING.

DID YOU -- DID YOU GO THROUGH THAT TRAINING?

AND IF SO, WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM IT?

>> THAT TRAINING WAS ALREADY IMPLEMENTED.

IT WAS ALREADY DONE.

AND THEY HAD A PANEL GET TOGETHER WITH SENATOR STEPHANIE CHANG WHICH VERY CLOSE COLLEAGUE OF MINE.

AND I ASKED HER: WHAT IS NOW THE BENEFIT OF ANY OF THIS IF THE STATEMENTS WERE UNFOUNDED AS WELL AS THE ALLEGED ACTS?

AND AS A RESULT, YOU HAVE TO TELL EVERYBODY I DO DENY EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE ALLEGATIONS.

THERE IS NO STANDARD BY ANY OF THE RULES OF THE SENATE THAT SAYS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT.

>> THAT'S NOT A STANDARD OF DUE PROCESS.

IT'S YOU KNOW FAIR AND IT'S TOTALLY AB BRO GATED BY WHAT IS CALLED CONSISTENCY OF WHAT THE YEARS ARE.

>> WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK FORECLOSE CREDITS.

RICK YOU GET A CHANCE TO FOLLOW UP.

PLEASE GO TO WKAR.ORG WITH MORE OF OUR CONVERSATION.

SEE YOU ON THE OTHER SIDE.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING: BUSINESS LEADERS FROM MICHIGAN HAS A STRATEGIC PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN A TOP-10 STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME AND A HEALTHY CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER.

LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN's ROAD TO TOP 10.COM.

FOR MORE "OFF THE RECORD" VISIT WKAR.ORG.

MICHIGAN TELEVISION STATEMENTS HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COSTS OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.