>> welcome back this week is Michigan's Democratic attorney general and our lead story Donald Trump stumps in the state of Michigan how come?

On the panel we have Lauren Gibbons, then, and Dave sitting with us as we get the inside out off the record.

>> production is made possible in part by Martin Wehmeier of full service strategic medications information partnering with clients to public relations digital marketing and public policy engagement, learn more at one -- Martin Wehmeier .com.

>> welcome back to off the record.

Still in studio C three weeks in a row we think this will last as a field different?

>> it's exciting to be back.

He >> it's great to have you here.

We will talk about Donald Trump coming to Michigan tomorrow let's see what people are saying.

Saying.

>> are you willing to do the Trump bubble in Michigan has burst?

He cannot first but certainly it is leaking an awful lot and it may well burst before we know it.

Donald Trump has endorsed more candidates running for office in Michigan than any other state in the union including Matt who is running for the Republican nomination for secretary of state and there ten Republicans running for the Michigan house who were also running on his blessing but our pollster believes this is not the same Donald Trump that was seen one year ago.

>> will he deliver the base of the people he endorses?

>> not to the extent he would have one year ago or it maybe even six months ago.

It is diminishing on the things that he continues to say.

I think you know it is in trouble.

>> he sees some warning signs earlier this week for example Mr. Trump had a rally in Georgia expecting 10,000 to show up and only 5,000 did.

Then there is a house committee investigating the capitol disturbance that has found a seven hour gap in Mr. Trump the logs on January 6th and this week Vladimir Putin was asked to dish some dirt for Donald Trump on President Biden's son.

Is the sport of Ukraine will be difficult for Trump to keep that connection with Putin and the things that he has done in the last few days is plain stupid.

Mr. Trump continues to hold onto his more ardent supporters in Michigan and they think things may turn around for the former president but based on what's happening now that support is eroding.

>> too much has been piling up and it's starting to erode his base.

>> on a scale of one to ten, ten being absolute political liability where is Donald Trump in Michigan today?

What?

>> is seven moving toward eight.

>> Mr. Trump is in Michigan on Saturday.

>> what you think of this analysis?

>> think certainly are different now, he hit that on the nail when he was president we didn't have a major European country at war with Russia.

Obviously he was implicated in being too close to Russia I think things you know it depends on who you ask a. Republicans I spoke to her happy to have him and happy he's here but also he is not just stopping for candidates for potentially going to stump for ballot initiatives that the Republicans are trying to push as well and so it is good fodder for him.

>> I think is turning Michigan into a test case of how well the Trump brand holds up as he said he is focused so much of Michigan and so many of the candidates are asking for his endorsement still, they see how strong of a core support he continues to have a Michigan and that I think we will see as we get closer to the primary how much that holds up the Michigan will truly be the test of the Trump brand in in this going forward and into the possibility of another presidential run.

>> it's clear the Republican party thinks there is a benefit to having dental Trump's endorsement because of seen coach aromatic not only welcome him to endorsements but endorses candidates in something that is a move away from tradition for people who are in party leadership.

In theory we think that she speaking with people at the base and hearing people who want this and they think this is indicative of what Republican voters want to see and their candidates.

>> that's what I hear as well.

He is telegraphing what the endorsement convention will look like.

They are should be a barnburner they the same time we have the cochair of the party already endorsing candidates, Trump is supporting these candidates.

>> so far we have not seen in Michigan what we saw in Virginia and other places where people have accepted the endorsement and then run over in the corner and ignored it the rest of the way.

It's not happening here have you heard anyone do that get.

>> do we expect that quick -- we expect that Virginia?

You >> know his base is strong here this is obviously a test case as what.

We said.

>> is in his video of a fundraiser marl Largo Largo.

There were other candidates in the crowd who are raising their hands and pleaded to come up on stage and introducing who they wire and saying I'm running as well and so clearly there is still this jockey and we anticipate jacking of good gubernatorial candidates at the rally on Saturday to see who's there and I think they still a big question about whether he gets in and that race and so yes I do think there is still a ton of candidate to want the the Republican primary is one election because there is a subset of people voting there but in the general election it's a whole other ballgame.

>> absolutely and truly that is where this question comes into play because certainly we have seen some of the trends going into it with the upcoming convention.

Obviously the Trump brand is still popular among most Republicans the Republicans are not turning down his support by any means but then went to get the general election that is where it starts to become a pretty big liability as been said, there is a lot of concerns about Ukraine situation still there are quite a bit of consternation especially from Democrats or Independents and it's not just about anything reason that he said but the Trump brand in general.

>>'s body of work that his body work indeed.

>> once you moving to the general election cycle certainly Republicans are hoping to benefit from common political trends that the party with the president and power doesn't do quite as well in the midterms so clearly Republicans are banking on that to some extent but how that holds up with the Trump factor is a wildcard.

>> we will see in this Donald Trump's power or not?

>> we certainly will.

If he's out here endorsing candidates in a race that even the Republican party says you know in essence we are backing off from this race until our delegates decide then yes definitely it will show whether he holds sway or not and I know Trump obviously lost here in Michigan but still he considers this a red state in many people do appear >> and don't forget he increased the voter turnout for himself in Michigan even though he lost and that potential is there but is the magic wearing off?

That's a question.

>> I think that your point you will see that at the convention I think part is will you see who plays the mechanics the best?

Who can get a recruit and talk to them?

Obviously for example in the Attorney General's race from her Speaker Leonard think they can do that, he think he speaks to the delegates but obviously were also seeing that from the other camp I think there's a fundraiser with Mike Modell today and he is giving a discount to delegates that want to come to the fundraiser so of course using different strategies play out but is there a lot of independent appeal to President Trump?

I think that that is pretty debatable at best.

Obviously Democrats are not coming I drove to vote for him and he lost the last election -- election so we wonder if this is a great impact for Republicans.

>> where does Ron like?

>> he won't be at the rally on Saturday he has a previous commitment so he won't be there but the cochair Maddox will be there.

>> has he said that?

>> yes he told the Free Press that.

>> where will he be?

He a previous engagement I'm sure the head of the Republican.

>> shouldn't Republican Party chair be here to welcome a former president of the United States?

>> I think you have seen the trends of coach aromatic have really taken on the role that she has played it frankly since Trump was elected the first time, she is viewed as the leader of that cohort of the party and so is cochair she really has continued that role and she obviously has a relationship with the former president and not the same way that chair wiser does so that a natural progression of how they have treated the chairmanship of the party.

>> and Weiser is the money guy, he's a fundraiser of the party and she is there to speak to and think like the base and whether you like her or not she does a good job of it.

>> there's also a challenger to Peter Mayor speaking at the event, it's one thing for the does the Republican Party to endorse in a crowded primary but it's a different thing to get on stage and/or somebody who is running against an incumbent Republican Congressman, that we part of it as well.

>> that's for the convention for interest.

Let's call in Dana our Attorney General.

Think you for doing all the record it's good to see this morning.

>> thank you for having me.

>> try this on for size, let's say theoretically that we have a new Attorney General named it the to Pernell and what will Michigan look like under that attorney general's ship?

>> I think it would be a scary place to live and I think what is important to remember is that this is an office that represents the state of Michigan in some 40,000 lawsuits and you have to have somebody who knows what they're doing, sensible, steady, and I believe that is what I have been to the course of my three plus years.

You may remember a woman who was in office by the name of Karen Springer who was the county clerk and what they there were endless difficulties in Macomb County every day processes that were falling under the umbrella of the work that a county clerk does, so much so that everyone Republican the Democrats agreed that it was unsustainable, if you have someone like Matthew to Pernell who is so focused on helping the Trump's smite his enemies, and relitigating the 2020 lawsuits you know election.

Really I am these many important cases will fall by the wayside and potentially the state to go bankrupt, you need to have sensible people in these positions that treat this department as an actual law firm and don't use it as a way to investigate and prosecute the enemies of Donald Trump.

>> is he a loose cannon?

>> I think he is.

But when it comes to Tom letter.

I mean Tom Leonard's views are just as extreme as Matthews.

He just may be more subtle and so if you look at things like his commitment to aggressively prosecuting women and doctors in the event that Roe versus Wade is is overturned, the fact that he subscribes to being as anti- LGBT Q as possible even for what the business communities around the state want to see which is more -- a more inclusive environment, I think that it's remarkable for all three of these candidates running to be Republican -- Attorney General as a Republican, the two words I have never heard any of them either our consumer protection and this is such an important part of the work that we do at the Department of Attorney General and for me personally, we have been incredibly aggressive about protecting consumers whether this is our new identity theft Bureau, whether it's the fact that now with brought in over $820 million to the state of Michigan on our opioid settlements, whether it is our work trying to help people get expungement through drivers license restorations to assist them, or going after companies like Eli Lilly when they charge exorbitant prices for basic needs like insulin.

The list goes on and on not just representing the state but the people in the state of Michigan and we won't see that it all under any Republican candidate.

When they are treated poorly they are scanned by a company or business that you have an attorney Attorney General that will be aggressive in defending them I don't that happening from any of these candidates.

>> is speaking to this case it was argued earlier this month after that argument which you spearheaded for the defendant side, you mentioned this case was analogous to Clayton County before the Supreme Court as you know the justice wrote this opinion but we wonder, do you hope that our Supreme Court rule similarly?

>> I think that they well.

I'm cautiously optimistic that we will win this case but honestly all of the caselaw that existed in Michigan and alight on title VII and the Federal laws that were that in place and the Federal cases that have been decided.

Essentially he eradicated all of all the cases.

>> now there's a state were Michigan Supreme Court has never ruled on the issue of whether there was sexual orientation or gender identity which should be read into the word sex as it appears Elliot Larson and I predict it will go the same way that this case went in the United States Supreme Court because arguments are basically entirely the same.

>> let's go back to the pending election.

You are drawing comparisons to the three people who are attempting to run against you but their strategies are a lot different so how are you beginning to build your strategy as you prepare to run against potentially someone who has the endorsement -- the strong endorsement of a former president, the Trump factor, and then also someone who with the possibility of running against someone you ran against before?

What are the dynamics you are considering as you build your campaign?

>> honestly, no matter who I run against what I will do is highlight all the work that we have done of the department since the time that I took over as Attorney General.

We have so many new units, so many new projects, and I would say this, if you didn't see a D next to my name I think the vast majority of Michigan voters would really like the work that we have done at the office.

Our anti- Robo calling, you know, things that are incredibly impacting to a people's everyday lives, we have gone out of our way in every instance to take consumer protection issues very very seriously and also to combat things that honestly are very harmful to Michiganders and so I created the first hate crime and domestic terrorism unit in the country, and what we do is when people threaten the lives of minority communities when people threaten the lives of public officials you may have seen it, we have been very very aggressive whether you are a state representative or a member of Congress or use it on a local board of education you don't deserve to have in your life threatened.

And those are the kinds of things that again we have been very aggressive about but will also work hard with business communities and you can talk to the beer and wine industry and the work we have done to protect our in-state companies from a legal out-of-state shipments, we have worked with the financial institutions around the state to help protect seniors and we have worked and partnership with her elder abuse task force and we have made great strides in protecting the elderly community.

Even the retailers, they will tell you that we have worked hand in glove with them to try to protect the state from over a billion dollars in lawsuits to do organized retail crime and even innovative projects that are obviously starting such as job corps so that we have people who are working directly with employers who badly need to fill these vacancies that we have people who are diverted away from the criminal justice system and into job training and into good paying jobs where they are instead of costing us $40,000 per year to incarcerate they are taxpaying members of the community.

We have worked tirelessly on efforts I think the vast majority of Michiganders appreciate.

>> you're talking about nursing homes and there's a clip talking about you cracking a home that nursing homes are safe in the capitol, how do you swear this concept of speaking to big business and big nursing home operators and telling them they're doing good job when he was a today investigation recently found that Michigan had a higher death rate in the nursing homes and some other surrounding Midwestern states?

>> well, how I know that the vast majority of nursing homes are doing a good job is not just because the investigations that we have performed in our office due to the claims that were made mostly by Republicans involving this and that we have gone through all the numbers but in addition to that, I started something called the sentinel project and so what we do at my department, our our healthcare unit, we take the claims of any kind of abuse or neglect or exploitation and we do support that surprise visits on those facilities and what we have found time and time again is that allegations are false and by and large the facilities are doing a good job taking care of residents and that the deaths that occurred were in with community spread and that these nursing homes have gone to extraordinary efforts to make sure that there residents are vaccinated and tried to get as many workers vaccinated as possible and that they were taking every precaution that they possibly can and this is what we found virtually every single site visit that we made unannounced.

And I will say that this narrative about the governor's policy leading to nursing home deaths unnecessarily or at a higher rate you know the Legislature has gone through that and they cannot point to how it's trio, the auditor General did a report on this and the only way he was able to increase the number of deaths was to go outside of state regulated facilities that the state doesn't even oversee and even prosecutor Pete Pete claimed he would go to office which was over a year ago and seek out these cases and prosecute them and yet he has come up with Apsley nothing and so we have a -- aggressively investigated this matter, every single complaint that came to her office we looked into him and we were unable to cooperate and of these Republican claims that residents were not well taken care of and so it is a false narrative but apparently one that holds well with the Republicans and so no matter how inaccurate that narrative is they will keep on circulating it if it adheres to their benefit whether it's you are not.

>> do you think there are some Republican men perhaps in leadership or other positions who have difficulty with dealing with women with power?

Take sometimes that is true.

What I will say is this, when you speak about the differences between having three of our top executive offices held by women we have seen an exponential increase in death threats to women in elected office whether your state representative or the governor or a member of Congress, we see these death threats coming in left and right and so my office has been tenacious about pursuing those death threats which is a crime.

You can disagree with an elected official, and you can be critical but you cannot threaten to kill her, I know unfortunately there has disparate reflection of how the community is reacting.

Not that large but a handful a people but we don't see the same level of death threats against men who hold elected office and I think this is part of the narrative circulated by the Republican party calling us witches that need to be burned at the stake and call us monsters and you see memes that make us look like vampires or something, there's an effort to dehumanize us which I think really pulls at the strings of a civil society and we see it mostly targeted at female electives and I think it is very very dangerous for that to occur and probably accounts for the reason why we get so many death threats.

>> the closing off -- the closing will be this morning for the men who allegedly tried to kidnap Governor Witmer and Wendy piece of the cases that they were set up by the government and trapped, and when this was announced I believe you said something to a fact I would rather have a weak conspiracy case and have a kidnapped governor on our hands and now this is closing up, how do you expect the jury to defined and what you hoped?

>> I believe that the youth attorney's office in the Western District has put on an incredibly strong case and I think that if the jurors review all of the evidence carefully that they are likely to combat guilty with conviction it's up to them and they are the triers of fact but I am impressed with the case that has been put on by the U.S. attorney.

We have eight of these defendants pending in her own office so I review the evidence in the case and these are very strong and I presume you can never gas out -- guess what any jury will do it's dangerous to speculate but I think there's a mass amount of evidence to support the charges both at the Federal level and at the state level as well.

>> you have previously expressed willingness to investigate cases about the result of this wintry election can you provide an update and why this is still an issue that's important to you?

We are two years out now almost in this instance.

>> I would say just generally speaking I think it is important that when ever you have individuals that are scammed or conned out of money in any way that it is important to investigate those case is certainly the Senate oversight committee believe that to be true remember I think there was only one Democrat on the committee Senator Irwin and so all the rest of the members of that committee that referred that to her office are Republicans who saw the same thing but that being the case because of some allegations that Mathew may have been involved in I have removed myself from this investigation and we have a conflict well.

I'm not involved in that investigation but I understand it is ongoing but generally speaking, those who have lied about the election and created this information about it I think have served to undermine our democracy whether or not that rises to the level of criminal offenses will remain to be seen but I do think it's incredible dangerous when you have people running for the critical offices of Secretary of State, the chief elections officer as well as Attorney General the chief law enforcement officer who was in charge of defending the legitimate results of an election to have those people be spreading be distorting what really occurred it tell us me that these are individuals that don't understand the law or don't care about the law and are more interested in ensuring that their candidate of choice wins elections as opposed to defending the will of the voters.

>> I know you have to move on thank you for joining us appear keep us posted on your campaign thank you for showing up and think you panel it's been nice to have you on board as well we will see you next week right here on off the record.