PROGRAMMING, GAMES, AND SO MUCH MORE.

I AM PROUD TO HELP MAKE THESE PROGRAMS POSSIBLE.

♪ GAUTAM: I AM GAUTAM MUKUNDA.

TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, THEY NOT ONLY BRING VITAL RESOURCES TO THE STATES BUT ALSO SERIOUS POLLUTION.

I WILL TALK TO A CHELSEA CITY COUNSELOR WHO SAYS IT IS PUTTING THE CITIES TOUR HEALTH AT RISK.

PLUS KATIE LANDON BREAKS DOWN NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR MIGRANT FAMILIES STAYING IN STATE SHELTERS, LAWMAKERS PLANS FOR MONEY, AND NEW RULES TO HELP THE OVERWHELMED SHELTER SYSTEM AND THEN HOW RESEARCH ON CROWS IN LAWRENCE COULD BE USED TO DEFEND AGAINST DRONE STRIKES ONE DAY.

THE DEADLY COLLISION AT BALTIMORE’S FRANCIS SCOTT KEY BRIDGE, HAS PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT LARGE CARGO SHIPS AND THE STABILITY OF THEIR LOCAL INFRASTRUCTURE BUT IN CHELSEA, THERE IS ANOTHER TOP CONCERN ABOUT THESE SHIPS.

THE POLLUTION THEY SPEW AS THEY COME AND GO FROM THE BOSTON HARBOR AND THE SERIOUS HEALTH IMPACTS IT CAN HAVE ON KIDS IN THE AREA.

CHRIS BURRELL HAS MORE.

>> WHAT LOOKS LIKE DUNES IN A DESERT IS IN REALITY A MASSIVE STORE OF ROAD SALT.

THE SALT USED TO COMBAT SNOW AND ICE IN HUNDREDS OF COMMUNITIES ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS.

IT IS THE RESIDENTS OF CHELSEA, A CITY JUST OUTSIDE OF BOSTON, WHO LIVE WITH THE SALT YARD CLOSE ENOUGH TO BREATHE IN THE EMISSIONS FROM A SHIP THAT IDLED FOR THREE DAYS WHILE AN ARMY OF DIESEL POWERED MACHINERY UNLOADED ROAD SALT SHIPPED HERE FROM CHILE.

>> ALL YOU SEE ALONG OUR WATERFRONT IS THE SHIPS, THE HUGE STOCKPILE, ALL THE INDUSTRY.

YOU KNOW, THE BIG TINKERS AND STUFF.

THAT IS WHAT YOU SEE.

YOU DON’T SEE THE WATER.

CHRIS: INDUSTRIAL PORTS ALONG THE HARBOR ARE BUSIER THAN EVER FROM CHELSEA TO SOUTH BOSTON.

IN 2023, SHIPS TOTALING MORE THAN 21 MILLION TONS IN SIZE CARRIED EVERYTHING FROM HOME HEATING FUEL TO FLATSCREEN TV’S INTO BOSTON HARBOR.

A 25% INCREASE FROM 2022 IN SHIPPING TONNAGE AND WHILE THE SHIPPING ROOM IS A SIGN OF A VIBRANT ECONOMY, THERE IS GROWING AS IT ENDS THAT RESIDENTS IN COMMITTEES LIKE CHELSEA ARE PAYING A PRICE.

-- COMMUNITIES LIKE CHELSEA ARE PAYING A PRICE.

THIS DRAWBRIDGE CONNECTING CHELSEA TO EAST BOSTON GOES UP MULTIPLE TIMES EACH DAY TO MAKE WAY FOR SHIPS.

YOU CAN SEE THE POLLUTION COMING FROM THE SHIP’S EXHAUST AND THE IDLING CARS THAT WAIT AS LONG AS 20 MINUTES FOR THE BRIDGE TO GO BACK DOWN.

EPA DATA COLLECTED OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS INDICATES EXPOSURE TO FINE DIESEL PARTICULATE MATTER AND OTHER AIRPORT -- AIR POLLUTANTS IS AMONG THE HIGHEST IN MASSACHUSETTS AND ACCORDING TO STATE DATA, THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN UNDER 15 WHO END UP IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM FOR ASTHMA IS DOUBLE THE STATEWIDE AVERAGE.

>> BOTH OF MY CHILDREN ARE ASTHMATIC AND MYSELF AND IT HAS BEEN HEIGHTENED IN THESE PAST TWO YEARS, I WANT TO SAY.

AT TIMES, I FEEL LIKE I AM STRUGGLING BREATHING, JUST WALKING UP MY STAIRS.

THAT IS NOT NORMAL FOR ME.

I ASKED MYSELF, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

I CANNOT PUT A FINGER ON IT BUT IF I COULD, I WOULD TOTALLY GUESS THAT IT IS THE AIR QUALITY HERE.

GAUTAM: CHRIS BURRELL JOINS ME NOW ALONG WITH MELINDA VEGA.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

CHRIS, JUST SUBJECTIVELY, WHAT DOES IT FEEL LIKE TO DEAL WITH THIS KIND OF POLLUTION?

HOW IS IT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE THAT DON’T HAVE THE SAME BURDEN OF POLLUTION?

CHRIS: THE SHIPS ARE BURNING SOME OF THE WORST FUEL THERE IS, SOME OF THE HIGHEST SULFUR CONTENT FUEL.

THEY ARE IDLING AT PORT.

IT IS SPEWING OUT AND THEN ALL OF THE UNLOADING, OFFLOADING OF THESE SHIPS IS CREATING MORE DIESEL EXHAUST SO THE EPA SCREEN -- THE DATA SHOWING FROM EPA IN A RELATIVELY NEW SENSOR THAT CHELSEA ALONE -- DIESEL PARTICULAR -- PARTICULAR MATTER IS 93% TO 96% OF PERCENT IN THE STATE, MEANING IT IS AMONG THE WORST GOING ON IN THE STATE SO HOW IT FEELS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK LINDA VEGA AND HER FAMILY, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE BREATHING IN NOT JUST THE EMISSIONS FROM THESE SHIPS BUT OBVIOUSLY, THERE’S A TON OF SOURCES GOING ON IN CHELSEA FROM THE BRIDGE, FROM LOGAN INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, BUT WE WANTED TO LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE SHIPPING INDUSTRY BECAUSE IT IS INCREASING.

GAUTAM: YOU ARE DEALING WITH THIS AS A CITY COUNSELOR BUT ALSO IN YOUR FAMILY.

WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE?

MELINDA: SO I WOULD SAY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE FACED MY WHOLE LIFE.

I AM ASTHMATIC.

I HAVE LIVED IN CHELSEA MY WHOLE LIFE.

AND NOW, I AM A MOTHER OF TWO CHILDREN WHO ARE ALSO ASTHMATIC.

AND YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THAT IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, IT HAS BEEN HEIGHTENED AND I CANNOT REALLY IDENTIFY WHY IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHY IS IT THAT MY CHILDREN ARE CONSTANTLY HAVING ASTHMA ATTACKS, WHERE THAT WAS NOT THE CASE?

WE HAVE TO USE OUR INHALER MORE FREQUENTLY THAN EVER.

AND I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY IT’S RELATED TO OUR POOR AIR QUALITY.

GAUTAM: WE HAVE DATA SHOWING THAT ASTHMA FOR CHILDREN IN CHELSEA IS SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER THAN THEY ARE IN THE REST OF THE STATE AND THAT SEEMS LIKE A CLEAR LINKAGE TO THE PARTICULATE EMISSIONS AND WE KNOW THAT SMALL PARTICULATES, THE SORT THAT ARE EMITTED BY THESE DIESEL ENGINES, THEY ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS TYPES OF PARTICULATE POLLUTION.

PERSONALLY, MY WIFE ALWAYS MAKES FUN OF ME.

I AM OBSESSED BY THE ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS SO DANGEROUS.

WHEN WE HAVE KIDS, I’M GOING TO SCURRY AROUND BEHIND THEM WITH AN AIR FILTER JUST TO PROTECT THEM FROM THIS BUT SINCE THAT IS NOT A REALISTIC OPTION, WHAT IS BEING DONE TO TRY AND ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM?

CHRIS: AROUND HERE, NOT A WHOLE LOT.

MY SECOND STORY WILL BE LOOKING AT THINGS THAT -- LITTLE BITS OF TRACTION THAT ARE GOING ON IN TERMS OF ENFORCEMENT, POLLUTION, BUT IN TERMS OF THE EMISSIONS, THERE IS NOT MUCH GOING ON.

THERE IS A CHANCE THAT, YOU KNOW, LOCALLY, REGIONALLY, POLICY MAKERS, ORGANIZATIONS, MASSPORT, FOR INSTANCE, COULD GET SOME FEDERAL MONEY THAT IS NOW AVAILABLE THROUGH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THROUGH TWO SEPARATE ACTS THAT ARE SPECIFICALLY GOING TO D CARBONITE AND ELECTRIFY THE PORTS IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THAT COULD GO TO SHORE POWER AS A HUGE ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN MANDATED FOR MORE THAN A DECADE IN CALIFORNIA.

THE STUDIES I HAVE LOOKED AT, IT MADE A DIFFERENCE.

IF THE SHIPS COME IN, THEY CAN STOP IDLING THE ENGINES AND THEY TIE INTO AN ELECTRICAL SOURCE AND THAT STOPS THE POLLUTION COMING OUT OF THEIR STACKS AND GOING INTO THE COMMUNITIES SUCH AS EAST BOSTON OR IN CHELSEA WHERE MELINDA AND HER FAMILY AND DOZENS OF OTHER FAMILIES LIVE.

GAUTAM: MELINDA, WHAT IS THE CITY GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

CHRIS: TO BE HONEST, WE HAVE WORKED -- WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT DOES ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE WORK IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND THEY ARE ALREADY DOING SO MUCH WITH RETROFITTING TRUCKS HISTORICALLY IN CHELSEA, AND SO FORTH.

THEY ARE TRAIL BLAZERS WHEN IT COMES TO OUR ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE WORK.

I ENVISION US WORKING AND COORDINATING EFFORTS WITH THEM.

AND YOU KNOW, THAT IS MY ROLE AS A CITY COUNCIL.

BUT ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, FOR ME, IT’S ALSO VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE CONTINUE TO CREATE AWARENESS AND EDUCATE OUR FAMILY MEMBERS, OUR COMMUNITY ON THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS MATTER AND HOW THEY CAN BE INVOLVED AND ENGAGED AND ENSURE THAT WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS IN THIS AND THAT THE MONEYS ARE BEING SPENT IN OUR ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMMUNITY SO THAT THESE GRAND OPERA COMMUNITIES -- GRANT OPPORTUNITIES ARE GIVEN TO COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE THESE BURDENS, AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE -- THEY SHOULD PRIORITIZE ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMMUNITIES.

GAUTAM: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE STATE DO?

MELINDA: EXACTLY THAT.

ALL ACROSS THE BOARD, IF THEY COULD IDENTIFY WHICH ARE THE TOP COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IMPACTED BY THIS, I THINK THAT THEY SHOULD PRIORITIZE US AND GIVE US MONEY, ALLOCATE FUNDS TO ENSURE THAT OUR TRUCKS ARE BEING RETROFITTED AND THAT WHAT CHRIS JUST MENTIONED IN TERMS OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS PRIORITIZED IN THE CITY.

GAUTAM: IS THERE ANY MOVEMENT AT THE STATE LEVEL TO MAKE THE INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS TO REMEDIATE THESE POLLUTION PROBLEMS?

MELINDA: MASSPORT TELLS -- CHRIS: MASSPORT TELLS ME THEY WILL DO AN EMISSIONS INVENTORY AT THEIR PORTS WHICH WOULD BE THE CRUISE PORT IN SOUTH BOSTON, CONTAINER TERMINAL.

THEY JUST SPENT -- INCLUDING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF STATE AND FEDERAL GRANTS TO DEEPEN THE PORT AT CONLEY CONTAINER TERMINAL TO MODERNIZE THAT PORT.

THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS I SPOKE TO IN SOUTH BOSTON WERE REALLY ANGRY.

THEY SAID THEY FOUGHT 10 YEARS AGO TO TRY TO GET AT LEAST AN ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW OF THAT PROJECT AND NONE TOOK PLACE.

THAT WAS UNDER THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION UNDER THE FORMER SECRETARY.

THEY SAID WE DON’T NEED TO DO AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT REVIEW OF THE EXPANSION.

CONLEY CONTAINER TERMINAL AND THE CLUES PORT -- CRUISE PORT ARE EXPANDING.

THE ENGINEER I INTERVIEWED FROM THE COLLEGE OF ENGINEERING WHO HAS A SENSOR SET UP JUST TO LOOK AT LOGAN AND JEFFRIES POINT SAID I AM GETTING ALL THIS STUFF COMING OVER THE WATER SO IT IS THEY ARE.

PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN LOOKING AT IT.

SO YOU KNOW, IF MASSPORT WANTS TO GO AHEAD WITH THAT, MAYBE THEY WILL PUT IN AN APPLICATION FOR SOME OF THIS THE CARBON ISAIAH IN, ELECTRIC INFLATION -- ELECTRICAL -- CARBONIZATION AND ELECTRIFICATION.

THEY WILL GO FOR IT WITH THE CRUISE SHIPS.

GAUTAM: WHAT IS THE TIMING FOR THAT BEFORE HE WOULD START TO SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT?

MELINDA: THAT WOULD BE MY -- CHRIS: THAT WOULD BE MY FOLLOW-UP STORY BUT A LOT OF TERMINALS -- THEY HAVE TERMINAL AT ITS BROOKLYN CRUISE TERMINAL.

IT DOESN’T HELP PEOPLE IN THE WORK -- NEWORK WHICH IS ACE ESSENTIAL PORT.

GAUTAM: -- AN ESSENTIAL PORT.

GAUTAM: THERE IS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH CONCERN.

ARE THERE ANY ESTIMATES OF THE COST BURDEN OF THE STATE THAT WOULD BE ALLEVIATED BY TRYING TO ADDRESS THIS?

COULD THEY MAKE THE ECONOMIC ARGUMENT?

CHRIS: THEY HAVE MADE THAT ECONOMIC ARGUMENT ON A NATIONAL LEVEL.

ONE OF THE EARLIEST STUDIES I LOOKED AT ACTUALLY POSITED WHAT IF THEY FULLY DECARBONIZING AND ELECTRIFIED THESE PORTS?

I DON’T HAVE THE NUMBER AT THE TOP OF MY HEAD BUT IT IS SUBSTANTIAL IN TERMS OF PUBLIC HEALTH SAVINGS AND FOR THE INVESTMENT THAT WAS MADE.

IF THAT INVESTMENT WERE MADE AND THE STUDY DONE IN THE STUDY DONE IN YALE SAID THAT THE ADVANCES MADE IN CALIFORNIA LARGELY THROUGH A SPECIFIC STATE MANDATE SAYING YOU CANNOT KEEP IDLING THESE ENGINES, YOU MUST ELECTRIFY VAST PORTIONS OF THIS PORT ACTIVITY, THERE’S A VERY CLEAR AND DIRECT BENEFIT TO THE HEALTH OF THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

GAUTAM: SO IS THERE ANY PRESSURE FROM THE STATE LEGISLATURE FROM THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM CHELSEA TO IMPOSE THAT KIND OF A MANDATE?

CHRIS: NO, NOT THAT I HAVE SEEN YET.

WHEN I TALKED TO THE STATE AND ASKED WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING, I WAS TOLD, TAKE A LOOK AT OUR NEW ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE STRATEGY.

I’M TRYING TO GET AN INTERVIEW WITH THE PERSON WHO HEADS THAT UP WHO USED TO WORK FOR GREEN ROOTS.

I HAVE NOT GOTTEN THAT INTERVIEW YET.

I WANT TO ASK THEM EXACTLY THOSE QUESTIONS.

THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO A REVIEW BECAUSE THAT IS CONSIDERED AN ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMMUNITY.

ALL THE PORT COMMITTEES ALONG BOSTON HARBOR OUR ENVIRONMENT OF JUSTICE COMMITTEES.

GAUTAM: COUNSELOR, YOU HAVE A PLATFORM WITH YOUR OFFICE AND YOU HAVE ONE HERE RIGHT NOW.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK THE GOVERNOR OR THE STATE TO STEP IN?

MELINDA: ABSOLUTELY.

I WAS GOING TO TAKE A MOMENT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I PERSONALLY KNOW WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH SO I WILL DEFINITELY -- OR WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH.

I WILL DEFINITELY REACH OUT TO THAT INDIVIDUAL AND ASK FOR A MEETING.

I THINK THAT THE TIME IS NOW AND THIS PERSON -- WE WORKED HAND IN HAND ON CAMPAIGNS IN CHELSEA SO YOU KNOW, I DON’T SEE THE WHY NOT IN THE HESITATION AND I THINK THE TIME IS NOW TO ENSURE THAT OUR COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF THE BURDENSOME -- YOU KNOW, WE GET -- WE GET FUNDED FOR THE BURDENS THAT WE CONSTANTLY ARE FACING.

AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT AS A CITY COUNCIL AND A POLITICIAN, I ALWAYS SAY THIS TO MY CONSTITUENTS.

IT IS YOUR JOB TO HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE AND I SAY THE SAME THING TO OUR GOVERNOR, OUR STATE REP.

RIGHT?

THEY USED TO WORK AT GREEN ROOTS.

THE TIME IS NOW.

IF WE COULD HAVE A MEETING TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS AND FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO AS A STATES TO ENSURE THAT WE GET THAT FUNDING ALLOCATED TO COMMUNITY -- TO ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE COMMUNITIES LIKE CHELSEA.

GAUTAM: MELINDA, CHRIS, I KNOW THIS IS AN ISSUE YOU WILL BE TRACKING CLOSELY BUT ON YOUR JOB, YOU WILL BE FOLLOWING THIS FOR US AND I WILL SAY THIS IS AN ISSUE WHERE THE SCIENCE HAS CHANGED A LOT AND WE KNOW IT IS WAY MORE SERIOUS THAN IT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO SO I HOPE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO KEEP US UP-TO-DATE WITH WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

MELINDA: THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

GAUTAM: NEXT UP, FAMILIES LIVING IN MASSACHUSETTS SAFETY NET SHELTERS WILL NEED TO PROVE THEY ARE WORKING TOWARDS GETTING A JOB IN FINDING LONG-TERM HOUSING.

THEY WILL HAVE TO REAPPLY EVERY MONTH IN ORDER TO STAY.

STATE LAWMAKERS ARE LOOKING TO FUNNEL MORE MONEY INTO STATE SHELTERS AND SET NEW LIMITS ON HOW LONG FAMILIES CAN BE IN THEM.

AS THE INFLUX OF MIGRANTS CONTINUES TO OVERWHELM AS A ITS SYSTEMS.

OUR STATEHOUSE REPORTER JOINS ME NOW WITH MORE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

GAUTAM: TELL US WHAT THESE NEW REQUIREMENTS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

KATIE: THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF MOVING PARTS AND THE QUESTION IS WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE IN PRACTICE.

THESE LIMITS THAT CAME DOWN FROM GOVERNOR HEALY’S OFFICE RECENTLY WILL APPLY TO FAMILIES STAYING IN OVERFLOW SHELTERS, THE PLACES THAT ARE SET UP, THE RECREATION CENTER IN ROXBURY AT THE FORMER COURTHOUSE IN CAMBRIDGE, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WAITING FOR A BED IN THE STATE’S MORE PERMANENT SHELTER SYSTEM.

AND THE IDEA IS THAT THEY WANT PEOPLE TO KIND OF DIVERGE AROUND THE SHELTER SYSTEM, TO FIND JOBS, TO FIND STABLE HOUSING BEFORE THEY END UP IN THE SHELTER SYSTEM THAT FAMILIES HAVE BEEN STAYING IN FOR OVER A YEAR.

SO THE QUESTION WILL BE, ONCE THEY REAPPLY AFTER A MONTH, WHAT EXACTLY THE ADMINISTERS AND LOOKS FOR IN TERMS OF DOCUMENTATION TO REALLY PROVE THAT THEY ARE IN A REHOUSING PROGRAM, APPLYING FOR JOBS, TAKING ENGLISH CLASSES.

IN THE CASE OF MIGRANTS AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE NEW TO THE COUNTRY, APPLYING FOR WORK AUTHORIZATION, SOMETHING TO HELP THEM GET SETTLED IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

MEANWHILE, WE HAVE THE HOUSE IN THE SENATE ARE EACH PROPOSING TO CAP STATES IN THE FULL -- STAYS IN THE FULL SHELTER SYSTEM AT NINE MONTHS WITH SOME POSSIBLE EXTENSIONS AFTER THAT SO THERE’S A FEW DIFFERENT PARTS IN PLAY HERE.

GAUTAM: I AM STRUCK BY THE REQUIREMENTS FOR LOOKING FOR SHELTER.

MASSACHUSETTS HAS A MASSIVE HOUSING SHORTAGE.

YOU COULD BE A WELL ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL AND HAVE DIFFICULTIES FINDING HOUSING.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO EXPECT THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SHELTERS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TRYING TO FIND -- KATIE: THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT THERE IS FOR ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THERE’S NOT ENOUGH HOUSING AND THE HOUSING THAT WE HAVE IS VERY EXPENSIVE.

ONE THING ADVOCATES HAVE RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT IS HOW WILL THIS EVEN BE COMMUNICATED WITH PEOPLE?

WHAT IF YOU ARE ARRIVING HERE AND YOU DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH?

WHAT RESOURCES ARE YOU GOING TO KNOW TO SEEK OUT THAT CAN MAYBE HELP YOU GET HOUSING?

WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO CONNECT WITH THAT?

THAT IS WHY I SAY WE WILL HAVE TO SEE, I GUESS, TWO MONTHS FROM NOW, TWO MONTHS AFTER IT STARTS, WHAT THAT ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE.

OUR PEOPLE JUST GOING TO END UP BACK IN THE SAME SITUATION WHERE THEY DON’T HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO, WHERE THEY ARE SLEEPING IN A TERMINAL AT LOGAN AIRPORT?

IT REALLY DOESN’T -- THERE IS NOT A CLEAR ANSWER AS TO HOW THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT AMID THE HOUSING CRISIS WE HAVE AS A STATE.

GAUTAM: THIS PROBLEM WILL CONTINUE TO GET WORSE BECAUSE WE ARE SEEING MORE INFLOW OF PEOPLE.

WHAT IS THE GOVERNOR’S PLAN FOR WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE SIX MONTH FROM NOW?

KATIE: SHE IS CALLING FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO STEP UP WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION REFORM, MORE FUNDING FOR STATES LIKE MASSACHUSETTS.

WHAT WE SEE FROM THE STATEHOUSE, PARTICULARLY THE HOUSE SPEAKER HAS VOICED A COUPLE TIMES NOW THAT HE DOES NOT EXPECT HELP TO COME AT LEAST NOT UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION, BECAUSE THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR ISSUE.

SO THEY DON’T SEEM TO BE COUNTING ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOING SOMETHING ANYTIME SOON AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE SEEING THESE TIME LIMITS COME INTO PLAY BECAUSE SOMETHING -- YOU KNOW, IF WE ARE SPENDING $75 MILLION A MONTH ON SHELTER RIGHT NOW, IF THE POPULATION AND SHELTER KEEPS GOING, IT’S EASY TO IMAGINE THOSE COSTS BLOOMING FURTHER.

GAUTAM: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY IN THESE SHELTER SYSTEMS OR PART OF THIS PROGRAM?

KATIE: WE DON’T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER OF PEOPLE BECAUSE THE STATE COUNTS IT BY FAMILIES.

WE KNOW THERE’S ABOUT 7500 FAMILIES IN THE SHELTER SYSTEM.

THERE ARE A FEW HUNDRED MORE -- SEVERAL HUNDRED MORE ON A WAITING LIST AND IN THESE EMERGENCY SHELTER SITES.

SO PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE LENGTH OF STAY IN SHELTERS ARE VERY LONG.

THERE IS NOT NEW ROOM BEING MADE TO MATCH THE RATE THAT PEOPLE ARE CONTINUING TO COME INTO THE COUNTRY OR ARE ON STABLY -- UN STABLY HOUSE.

YOUR MOUTH -- YOUR MATH IS TESTING ME.

THE AVERAGE IS ABOUT THREE TO FOUR PER FAMILY.

GAUTAM: IN ABSOLUTE TERMS, THAT IS NOT THAT MANY PEOPLE IN A STATE THE SIZE OF MASSACHUSETTS.

THIS IS AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THE INTRANASAL AIR CITY OF HOUSING IN THE STATE.

IS THIS PUTTING MORE PRESSURE ON THE LEGISLATURE TO ACTUALLY TRY AND INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF HOUSING TO TRY AND HELP SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

KATIE: WHEN YOU TAKE THE POPULATION OF A STATE, YOU ARE RIGHT, THAT IS NOT A BIG NUMBER BUT IT’S ALSO WAY MORE THAN THE SHELTER SYSTEM HAD BEEN EQUIPPED TO HANDLE EVEN JUST A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

SO HOUSING PRODUCTION IS DEFINITELY ON THE RADAR.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT SPENDING AND BORROWING MEASURES THAT AIM TO SPUR IT THROUGH TAX CREDITS AND OTHER INCENTIVES.

THIS WEEK, WE HAVE A HEARING ON A $4 BILLION HOUSING BILL THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED AND THAT IS SOMETHING LAWMAKERS SEEM INTERESTED IN PURSUING, OPENING UP SOME POLICY AND SPENDING LEVERS TO HELP ENCOURAGE HOUSING PRODUCTION BUT THAT IS NOT A NEW PROBLEM.

THAT HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN MEETING POLICY INTERVENTIONS FOR A WHILE AND IT’S TOUGH TO GET THROUGH ON BEACON HILL, TOUGH TO FIND CONSENSUS WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTING RULE AREAS, SUBURBS -- RURAL AREAS, SUBURBS.

IT CAN BE TOUGH TO GET IT THROUGH.

GAUTAM: WHAT IS THE ENDGAME HERE?

THESE TEMPORARY HOUSING STRUCTURES WERE CREATED BECAUSE WE WERE HAVING THIS PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE SLEEPING IN LOGAN AIRPORT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A CLEAR SORT OF PUBLIC -- NOT, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC ORDER PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE IN VERY DIFFICULT SITUATIONS AND WE DON’T HAVE A WAY TO MANAGE IT.

IF THE PRESSURE THEY ARE PUTTING ON THEM IS TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO PUSH PEOPLE OUT OF THE SHELTERS IF THEY ARE NOT MEETING THESE REQUIREMENTS, AREN’T WE JUST RE-CREATING THE PROBLEM WE JUST TRIED TO SOLVE WITH THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?

KATIE: THE OFFICIALS WHO ARE PUSHING THE TIME LIMITS WILL TELL YOU THAT THEY HAVE BEEN BACKED INTO A CORNER, THAT THE SPENDING THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

WE DO HAVE A LAW FROM THE 1980’S THAT GUARANTEES SHELTER TO CERTAIN HOMELESS FAMILIES AND PREGNANT WOMEN, AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SOME REPUBLICANS HAVE PUSHED TO CHANGE, TO RESTRICT, BUT THAT IS NARROWING THAT OR WINNOWING IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT HAS CAUGHT ON BROADLY WITH DEMOCRATS WHO CONTROLLED THE LEGISLATURE SO IT REALLY IS, AS YOU GET AT IT, A TRICKY BALANCE TO STRIKE.

HOW CAN YOU PUT CONTROLS ON THE PROGRAM WHILE ALSO LIVING UP TO THE LAW AS IT IS WRITTEN?

I DON’T KNOW THAT THERE IS AN EASY ANSWER TO THAT AND I DON’T KNOW THAT WE HAVE SEEN THE LAST CHANGE TO THE SHELTER SYSTEM.

IT IS EASY TO IMAGINE MORE COMING DOWN THE PIKE.

GAUTAM: HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO THE PEOPLE IN THE SHELTERS THEMSELVES ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THESE REQUIREMENTS AND HOW THEY THINK IT IS POSSIBLE TO DEAL WITH THIS?

KATIE: I MEAN, THE LAST TIME THAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN IN ONE OF THOSE EMERGENCY SHELTERS MYSELF WAS A FEW MONTHS AGO NOW AND YOU CANNOT REALLY SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE STAYING THERE BECAUSE THERE WAS A LANGUAGE BARRIER.

I ONLY SPEAK ENGLISH AND THE FOLKS WHO WERE THERE HAD COME FROM HAITI.

BUT I DO KNOW FROM WHAT I HEAR FROM ADVOCATES, PROVIDERS, THAT THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT CREATING THAT SITUATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE FORCED OUT WITH NOWHERE ELSE TO GO.

THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT CREATING NEW BARRIERS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH TRAUMA, WHO DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH, OR WHATEVER ELSE SITUATION MIGHT BE, THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE A MORE COMPLEX SYSTEM.

GAUTAM: WE KNOW YOU WILL BE TRACKING THIS CLOSELY FOR US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

KATIE: THANK YOU.

GAUTAM: FINALLY TONIGHT, THOUSANDS OF CROWS TO SEND EVERY NIGHT INTO THE CITY OF LAURENS AND IT IS NOT JUST A FASCINATING SITE FOR BIRDWATCHERS.

THE ROOST IS NOW THE LOCATION OF GOVERNMENT-FUNDED RESEARCH ON NEW 3D IMAGING TECHNOLOGY WHICH ALLOWS RESEARCHERS TO PINPOINT THE COURSE OF AN INDIVIDUAL BIRD WITH THE HOPE IT CAN ONE DAY BE USED TO DETECT DRONE STRIKES.

>> THEY WILL START TO COME IN THESE STREAMS, THESE RIVERS OF FLIGHT AND IT WILL BE HUNDREDS, IT WILL BE THOUSANDS.

IT IS JUST DAZZLING.

ABOUT 13 YEARS AGO, I TOOK ON A NEW ASSIGNMENT.

THERE WAS AN OPENING FOR A FULL-TIME ROMAN CATHOLIC CHAPLAIN AT LAWRENCE GENERAL HOSPITAL.

AFTER I STARTED AT THE HOSPITAL, I BEGAN TO NOTICE THESE STREAMS OF CROWS GOING BY.

IN 2017, IT REALLY STARTED TO GRAB MY ATTENTION.

THEY WOULD COME UP IN SMALL GROUPS AND LARGER GROUPS.

THEY HAD THIS JAW-DROPPING EXPERIENCE, IN AWE WATCHING THESE BIRDS TRICKLE IN AND THEN THEY WOULD COME IN IN THE THOUSANDS AND THEY ARE SETTLING INTO THESE TREES BEHIND US WHILE VOCALIZING.

45 OR 50 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET -- THEY GO DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, UNTIL THERE IS NOTHING LEFT.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE IN MY LIFE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHETHER IT HAS BEEN A VERY HEAVY DAY OR A LIGHTER DAY, THIS HAS BEEN THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WAY TO KIND OF BUFFER BETWEEN THE WORLD OF WORK AS A HOSPITAL CHAPLAIN AND THEN GO HOME TO HAVE DINNER WITH MY WIFE OR WHATEVER THE EVENING HAS IN STORE FOR US.

>> THE GOAL IS TO BE ABLE TO MEASURE THE FLIGHT TRAJECTORY OF EACH INDIVIDUAL BIRD IN A LARGE FLOCK.

FOR INSTANCE, WHY DON’T THEY BUMP INTO ONE ANOTHER?

OR MAYBE THEY DO AND WE JUST DON’T SEE IT.

>>>> THIS BOX HERE IS OF A REPURPOSED LIDAR SYSTEM.

WE HAVE A LASER AND THEN WE HAVE SOME BEAMS SHAPING OBJECTS RIGHT HERE AND THEN WE HAVE TWO SCAN MIRRORS THAT WIGGLE AROUND REALLY QUICKLY.

THOSE DIRECT THE LIGHT OUT TO THE SCENE OVER THERE.

RADAR USES RADIO WAVES TO MEASURE DISTANCE, AND WE’RE USING LIGHT WAVES TO MEASURE DISTANCE.

THE THING THAT THAT ENABLES BY USING LIGHT INSTEAD OF RADIO WAVES IS MUCH BETTER ANGULAR RESOLUTION, WE CALL IT.

IT’S LIKE INSTEAD OF BIG BLOBS OUT THERE, YOU’RE SEEING PINPOINTS.

♪ YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD ONE OF THESE SYSTEMS SET UP AT LOGAN AIRPORT AND YOU WERE WORRIED ABOUT DRONES, ONE OR TWO, OR, HEAVEN FORBID, A WHOLE SWARM OF DRONES COMING IN TO DO SOME DAMAGE TO AN AIRCRAFT OR THE PEOPLE IN IT, BEING ABLE TO DETECT THAT IN REAL TIME, TRACK ALL THOSE DRONES, FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY WERE DOING, AND DEVISE A COUNTERMEASURE.

THAT’S REALLY IMPORTANT.

[CROWS CROWING] >> WHEN THIS ROOST IS AT ITS HEIGHT AND THE NUMBERS ARE HUGE AND THEY’RE ALL COMING IN AND THEY’RE SWIRLING AND THEN THEY’RE SETTLING DOWN FOR THE NIGHT, IT’S JUST, IT’S MESMERIZING AND I’M AS DAZZLED EVERY TIME THEY COME HERE THIS YEAR AS I WAS BACK IN 2017, 2018 , AND THE WINTERS AFTER THAT.

GAUTAM: THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

YEARS OUT FROM PANDEMIC LOCKDOWNS, MANY BOSTON COMPANIES ARE EAGER TO GET THEIR EMPLOYEES BACK IN THE OFFICE BUT MANY WORKERS ARE NOT WILLING TO GIVE UP REMOTE WORK.

SHOULD EMPLOYERS FORCE THEM BACK?

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

♪ ♪