>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

AN AIR STRIKE DESTROYS THE IRANIAN CONSULATE IN DAMASCUS.

IRAN BLAMES ISRAEL.

WE'LL HAVE THE LATEST WITH INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALEST ROE THEN BERGMAN.

>> THEN -- >> I'VE SEEN THE TRAGEDY AS SOMETHING VERY SMALL.

>> A PALESTINIAN POET TELLS CHRISTIANE HOW HIS FAMILY MADE THE HARROWING JOURNEY OUT OF GAZA.

AND -- ♪♪ A BLOW TO TURKEY'S ERDOGAN, AS THE COUNTRY'S MAIN OPPOSITION PARTY CLAIMS VICTORY IN KILO CALL ELECTIONS.

WE'RE ON THE GROUND IN ISTANBUL.

ALSO AHEAD -- >> WE HAVE TO DELAY THE AGE AT WHICH THEY GET INTO SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> THE ANXIOUS GENERATION.

NYU PROFESS SORE AND PSYCHOLOGIST JONATHAN HAIDT TELLS HARI HOW A GREAT REWIRING OF CHILDHOOD IS CAUSING AN EPIDEMIC OF MENTAL ILLNESS.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

>>> ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> HI, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

IRANIAN MEDIA IS SAYING THE COUNTRY'S CONSULATE IN SYRIA HAS BEEN DESTROYED IN AN AIR STRIKE, KILLING A SENIOR COMMANDER IN THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS QUDS FORCE.

THE IRANIAN AMBASSADOR TO SYRIA SAYS AT LEAST FIVE PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN THE STRIKE, AND HE SAYS ISRAEL WAS BEHIND THE ATTACK.

SO FAR, THE ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCES ARE DECLINING TO COMMENT.

NOW, THIS COMES AS THOUSANDS OF PROTESTERS ROSE UP IN CITIES ACROSS ISRAEL IN THE LARGEST DEMONSTRATION SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

PEOPLE TAKING TO THE STREETS OVER THE WEEKEND TO DEMAND MORE TO BE DONE TO BRING BACK ISRAELI HOSTAGES AND CALLING FOR THE REMOVAL OF PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU AND FRESH ELECTIONS.

JOINING ME NOW ON THIS IS STAFF WRITER FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE JOURNALIST RONEN BERGMAN, WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THIS STORY CLOSELY FOR US.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM FROM TEL AVIV.

WHEN WE FIRST HEARD ABOUT THIS ATTACK AND STRIKE IN SYRIA, I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE PERFECT GUEST TO HAVE ON.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF ATTACKS YOU'VE DOCUMENTED OVER ISRAEL'S HISTORY, AS WE NOTED, THE IDF HAS NOT RESPONDED OR TAKEN RESPONSIBILITY TO THIS ATTACK JUST WITHIN THE LAST FEW HOURS, BUT IT IS REPORTED THAT A HIGH-RANKING IRGC OFFICIAL WAS KILLED.

HOW SIGNIFICANT IS THIS MOMENT?

>> VERY SIGNIFICANT.

THE TARGET NAME, HE IS THE COMMANDER OF THE IRGC, THE IRANIAN REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS BOTH IN SYRIA AND IN LEBANON, PRACTICALLY BEING ONE OF THE MOST SENIOR VETERAN EXPERIENCED OFFICERS OF THE -- OF THE GUARDS.

SECOND IN COMMAND ONLY TO THE QUDS FORCE COMMANDER.

HE HAS CONTROL.

THE TWO -- TWO OF THE MAIN AREAS WHERE THE QUDS FORCE, THE FOREIGN OPERATION ARM OF THE GUARDS WORK IN BOTH SYRIA AND LEBANON, CRITICAL, STRATEGIC AREAS, BOTH FOR SYRIA AND FOR IRAN, AND THE FACT THAT ISRAEL WAS ABLE -- ISRAELI MILITARY INTELLIGENCE WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY, AND IN ISRAEL, WHERE HE IS, AND THEN ISRAEL TOOK THE DECISION TO KILL HIM, DESTROY THE BUILDING, A MILITARY HEADQUARTERS, JUST BY THE IRANIAN EMBASSY IN DAMASCUS, THIS IS VERY, VERY -- AND NOT JUST THE KILLING OF SUCH AN IMPORTANT PERSON THAT ISRAEL ATTRIBUTES A LOT OF THE INITIATION OF OPERATION AGAINST IT, BOTH FROM LEBANON, FROM SYRIA, AND FROM OTHER PLACES, BUT ALSO IMPORTANT TO SEE HOW THIS DEVELOPS.

BOTH IRAN, IRAN'S REACTION, WHAT IRAN WILL DO, SOMEONE SAID THIS IS NOT LIKE POKING IRAN IN THE EYE, THIS IS LIKE SLAPPING IRAN HARD IN THE FACE, FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF ISRAEL, AND ALSO, WHAT HEZBOLLAH WILL DO, BECAUSE THE LATE -- IF CONFIRMED, HE WAS CLOSE ASSOCIATE, CLOSE FRIEND, I BELIEVE, OF THE SECRETARY-GENERAL OF HEZBOLLAH.

AND I'M SURE THAT THIS WILL PUT BOTH SIDES, IRAN AND HEZBOLLAH, INTO A DILEMMA, HOW TO -- HOW TO CONTINUE FROM HERE.

>> AS YOU NOTE IN YOUR EXTENSIVE REPORTING, THESE TYPES OF DECISIONS AREN'T MADE LIGHTLY.

THERE ARE MANY TIMES WHERE ISRAEL, IF ISRAEL IS RESPONSIBLE, WHERE ISRAEL KNOWS WHERE CERTAIN HIGH LEVEL OFFICIALS ARE IN OTHER COUNTRIES AND CHOOSES NOT TO ACT.

SO, IN YOUR VIEW, IN THESE EARLY HOURS, WAS THIS MOVE MORE OF A PREEMPTIVE ONE, OR IS IT ONE TO SEND A MESSAGE TO IRAN, TO HEZBOLLAH, NOT TO ACT?

>> I THINK BOTH, BUT NOT JUST THOSE REASONS.

THIS IS PURE ASSUMPTION, IT'S NOT SOMETHING I KNOW.

>> YEAH.

>> WE ARE -- HE WAS A PRIME TARGET, AT LEAST FOR COLLECTION OF INTELLIGENCE FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF ISRAEL, FOR DECADES.

BUT ISRAEL DIDN'T KILL HIM.

AS MUCH AS ISRAEL DIDN'T KILL MANY UNDER IRANIAN AND HEZBOLLAH OPERATIVES THAT IT HAD DURING THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

THE FACT THAT THEY DECIDED TO CREATE THE LOW INTENSITY CONFLICT WITH ISRAEL, FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF ISRAEL, UNPROVOKED, FROM THEIR POINT OF VIEW, SHOWING SOLIDARITY WITH HAMAS AND WITH THE PALESTINIANS IN GAZA, THE FACT THAT IT STARTED, GAVE ISRAEL AN OPPORTUNITY TO TARGET A LOT OF PEOPLE AND FACILITIES THAT ISRAEL DIDN'T, OR DECIDED NOT TO DO BEFORE, BECAUSE OF FEARING ESCALATION.

NOW, AS IRONIC AS IT SOUNDS, BOTH SIDES, SO, IRAN AND HEZBOLLAH ON ONE HAND, AND ISRAEL ON THE OTHER, ARE DOING TO EACH OTHER THINGS THAT IF EVEN A FRACTION OF THEM HAPPENED A YEAR AGO, SO, BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, WOULD HAPPEN, WE WOULD BE IN A REGIONAL WAR LONG AGO.

NOW, BECAUSE BOTH SIDES ARE NOT INTERESTED IN ALL-OUT WAR, THAT THEY CONTINUE TO DO THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT VERY GOOD WITH ASSESSING THE FUTURE, BUT THE CURRENT ASSUMPTION IS THAT EVEN THIS EVENT, WHICH IS VERY SIGNIFICANT, WILL NOT LEAD TO AN ESCALATION TO ALL-OUT WAR.

>> YEAH, THE LANDSCAPE, YOU'RE RIGHT TO NOTE, THE LANDSCAPE HAS CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

I MEAN, WE'VE NOTED THAT IN PREVIOUS COMMENTS MADE SINCE OCTOBER 7th, THAT IF THEY HAD BEEN MADE PRIOR TO OCTOBER 7th, EVERYONE'S HAIR WOULD BE ON FIRE, BUT YET, HIS COMMENTS SEEMED TO SEND A MESSAGE IN PARSING THROUGH THE WORDS AND THE LANGUAGE THAT HE WASN'T LOOKING FOR AN ESCALATION AT THIS POINT.

LET ME ASK YOU TO ANOTHER -- ABOUT ANOTHER STORY THAT WE'VE BEEN COVERING, AND THAT IS ISRAEL ENDING ITS TWO-WEEK LONG SIEGE AT AL SHIFA HOSPITAL.

ISRAEL SAID THIS HAS BEEN A PRECISE ANTI-TERRORISM MISSION AND THAT IT KILLED 200 MILITANTS AND HAD GONE TO GREAT LENGTHS TO AVOID ANY CIVILIAN DEATHS OR INJURIES, BUT THE IMAGES ARE SHOCKING TO SEE AFTER THE IDF HAD LEFT THE HOSPITAL, CNN HAD BEEN PROVIDED WITH, AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM EYEWITNESSES.

TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT MORE YOU'RE LEARNING IN YOUR REPORTING ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE, AND THE FACT THAT ISRAEL HAD TO RETURN TO THE NORTH TO AL SHIFA, I KNOW ISRAEL IS SAYING THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED A LOT OF HIGH LEVEL INTELLIGENCE THAT THEY'RE PARSING THROUGH RIGHT NOW, BUT EVEN THE FACT THAT THEY HAD TO RETURN AFTER THEY HAD LEFT THE NORTH, THAT IS SIGNIFICANT IN AND OF ITSELF, NO?

>> YEAH, LET ME START WITH THE LAST POINT THAT YOU RAISE.

I THINK IF ANY ONE OF THE ISRAELI OFFICIALS GAVE AN IMPRESSION AS IF HAMAS, EVEN IF JUST IN THE NORTH, EVEN IF JUST IN THE CITY OF GAZA IS TOTALLY DESTROYED OR WHATEVER EXPRESSION THEY USED, THAT ALL THE MILITARY INFRASTRUCTURE IS DISASSEMBLED, WHAT HAPPENED AT SHIFA IS WRONG.

IF TO TAKE WHAT ISRAEL CLAIMS, BASICALLY AND HAMAS AND THE PALESTINIAN ISLAMIC JIHAD, REGROUPED AND RE-ESTABLISHED THEIR HEADQUARTERS INSIDE SHIFA HOSPITAL.

THAT ONE.

THE SECOND, WHAT IT DOES, I THINK, ALSO SHOW, AND ISRAEL STILL NEED TO EXPLAIN WHAT EXACTLY IT FOUND THERE AND WHO EXACTLY THEY KILLED, RELEASE SOME OF THE NAMES AND WHO THEY DETAINED, THEY SAID THEY MENTIONED A FEW PEOPLE, BUT IT DOES SHOW -- THIS IS -- THIS IS NOT STRATEGIC, IT'S A TACTICAL INTELLIGENCE ACHIEVEMENT, AN OPERATION FROM ISRAEL.

BUT IT DOES SHOW, AND THIS IS THE IMPORTANT, LOOKING TOWARDS THE FUTURE, THAT ISRAEL DOES NOT HESITATE TO LAUNCH THOSE INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS ON FOCUSED TARGET.

THIS CALLS FOR THE FUTURE OF THE -- THE GAZA STRIP.

THAT IF A NO MAN'S LAND, IF A LAWLESS COUNTRY WILL BECOME DISPLACED, THEN GAZA WILL BECOME SUCH THAT ISRAEL WILL FEEL ITSELF DOOMED, PRIVILEGED, OR MUST TAKE MORE AND MORE ACTIONS, AND AS LONG AS PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU DOESN'T AGREE THAT IT WILL -- THAT ISRAEL DISCUSS THE NEXT DAY, TO BRING IN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY -- >> WHICH HE'S NOT DOING.

>> BRING SOME KIND OF ALTERNATIVE -- HE DOESN'T AGREE TO THAT.

AS LONG AS THE GAZAN POPULATION, THE REFUGEES, ARE NOT PRESENTED WITH SOME KIND OF RELIABLE ALTERNATIVE, THEN HAMAS WILL REGAIN CONTROL OF EVERY TERRITORY THAT ISRAEL WITHDRAW.

AND WE WILL JUST BE DOOMED, THE WHOLE REGION.

>> AND VICIOUS CYCLE.

>> REPETITIVE, YES.

>> AND THIS VICIOUS CYCLE WILL CONTINUE, ANOTHER THEME THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN YOUR BOOK, ALL THESE TACTICAL ACHIEVEMENTS, WITHOUT STRATEGY, WITHOUT A LONG-TERM STRATEGY, AND HERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, AND THAT LEADS ME TO MY QUESTION ABOUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON THE STREETS OF ISRAEL ONCE AGAIN, THE NUMBERS OF PROTESTERS NOW BEGINNING TO MIRROR WHAT WE SAW BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, WITH THE JUDICIAL ATTEMPTS AND REFORMS.

WE'RE SEEING HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE OVER THIS WEEKEND, THE MOST WE'VE SEEN TURN OUT.

OBVIOUSLY, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT AGENDAS, AND IT SEEMS THAT THEIR GOAL IS NOT NECESSARILY TO END THE WAR, BUT TO BRING, A, TO BRING THE HOSTAGES HOME, AND TO SEE A CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP.

AND BIBI NETANYAHU FINDS HIMSELF IN A POSITION LIKE HE'S NEVER BEEN BEFORE, PULLED FROM BOTH SIDES, FROM THE RIGHT AND FROM THE LEFT, AGAIN, ISRAEL'S LONGEST-SERVING PRIME MINISTER, CAN'T RULE HIM OUT RIGHT NOW, BUT HOW WEAKENED AND VULNERABLE, IN YOUR VIEW, IS HE AT THIS MOMENT?

>> I THINK YESTERDAY HE GAVE THE WORST SPEECH EVER, WITH MANY LAPSES AND LINGUISTIC MISTAKES.

HE IS USUALLY READY FOR THE SPEECHES.

YESTERDAY, HE WAS NOT.

FAIRLY CONFUSED.

CONCERNED BY OTHER THINGS.

I THINK HE MADE THE SPEECH TO PUSH BACK ON CLAIMS THAT HE'S NOT PUTTING THE HOSTAGES AT THE TOP OF HIS PRIORITY, KNOWING THAT THE TREND IN ISRAEL, THE MAJORITY ARE SUPPORTIVE OF A DEAL, AND I THINK HE'S TRAPPED BETWEEN THIS KIND OF POPULARITY FOR THE DEAL AND SUPPORT FOR THE HOSTAGES TO COME BACK, EVEN IN GREAT PRICE THAT ISRAEL WOULD NEED TO -- THE PRICE THAT ISRAEL WOULD NEED TO PAY, AND THE COALITION, HIS EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTNERS, ARE THREATENING TO LEAVE, IF HE WILL AGREE TO MAKE A DEAL WITH HAMAS.

BUT THE FACT -- THE MORE IMPORTANT FACT IS THAT THE PROTESTS, IT SEEMS, HAS REIGNITE.

THE PROTESTERS THAT WERE NOT ENTHUSIASTIC TO DO SO AS LONG AS THE WAR GOES ON, REALIZED, I ASSUME, THAT THE WAR IS BASICALLY OVER IN THE SENSE OF ROBUST MILITARY MANEUVERS INSIDE GAZA, AND THEY SAY -- THEY SORT OF UNITE BETWEEN THOSE TWO TARGETS THAT THEY CALL FOR.

ONE IS THE -- CALL THE GOVERNMENT TO SIGN A DEAL TO DO EVERYTHING TO BRING THOSE HOSTAGES IMMEDIATELY BACK, AND THE TOTAL MISTRUST OF THE GOVERNMENT AND CALLING FOR ELECTION.

THE IMPORTANCE OF THE -- THE REMEDY TO THE PRISONERS AND THE P.O.W.s AND M.I.A.s IS SOMETHING SO INHERENT TO THE ISRAELIS, IT IS VERY, VERY POWERFUL, AND I THINK NOW IT'S THE MAIN ENGINE, WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU IS NOT DOING ENOUGH, MAYBE THE CONTRARY, MAYBE NOT WANTING TO END THE WAR, BUT WANTING TO CONTINUE THE WAR, NOT TO FACE THE INVESTIGATION, THE INQUIRY AFTERWARDS AND THE POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES, AND THEREFORE THEY DON'T BELIEVE -- MANY OF THE PROTESTERS DON'T BELIEVE NETANYAHU, AND DON'T BELIEVE HIS INTENTION WHEN IT COMES TO THE -- TO SIGNING A DEAL, AND THEREFORE ACCELERATING THE PRESSURE ON THIS GOVERNMENT.

>> RONEN, YOU MENTION, IN THE 30 SECONDS WE HAVE LEFT, YOU MENTIONED THAT MAJOR OPERATIONS INSIDE GAZA HAVE REALLY COME TO AN END, BUT WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT UP RAFAH AND THE PRIME MINISTER'S INSIST EPS THAT THE IDF STILL HAS TO GO INTO RAFAH, DESPITE A LOT OF CONSTERNATION AND HESITATION FROM THE WEST, PARTICULARLY THE UNITED STATES.

DO YOU SEE THAT OPERATION MOVING FORWARD AT THIS POINT?

>> I SEE PREPARATION MOVING FORWARD, I SEE -- I THINK THE DECISION HAS NOT YET BEEN MADE, BUT AT LEAST AS THE LEVERAGE, THE PRESSURE ON HAMAS TO SIGN A DEAL, ISRAEL IS MAKING ALL THE NOISES, THE SIGNS, THE RECRUITMENT OF RESERVES IN ORDER TO DO -- I STILL BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ROOM FOR DECISION-MAKE, AND I ASSUME THE NEXT TWO WEEKS, SO THE LEFT, THE TEN DAYS TO 40 DAYS LEFT IN RAMADAN, ARE CRITICAL, IN THE EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE U.S. AND ISRAEL ABOUT MAKING THE CALL WHETHER TO INVADE RAFAH OR NOT.

>> AND THIS COMES AT A POINT WHERE TENSIONS ARE AT THEIR HIGHEST POINT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL SINCE OCTOBER 7th.

RONEN BERGMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, AS ALWAYS.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WELL, NOW IN GAZA, THE 14-DAY SIEGE OF AL SHIFA HOSPITAL HAS COME TO AN END.

WHAT REMAINS LOOKS LIKE A SCENE FROM A HORROR MOVIE.

TO QUOTE A JOURNALIST ON THE GROUND THERE.

HE DESCRIBED DECOMPOSING BODIES, STARVATION AND DEHYDRATION, AND CORPSES CRUSHED BY BULLDOZERS.

ISRAEL INSISTS IT KILLED MORE THAN 200 TERRORISTS DURING ITS OPERATION THERE.

AIR DROPS CONTINUE, BUT IT IS FAR FROM ENOUGH.

EARLY ON IN THE WAR, CHRISTIANE SPOKE WITH MOSAB ABU TOHA, A PALESTINIAN POET LIVING INSIDE GAZA.

AND EVEN AT THE OUTSET OF THE CONFLICT, HE SAID RESOURCES WERE LOW.

>> WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF WATER, RUNNING OUT OF ELECTRICITY, WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF MEDICINE, AND WE ARE FULL OF FEAR OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

IN MY HOUSE NOW, I HAVE -- I HAVE ABOUT FOUR FAMILIES, I HAVE MY FAMILY, MY BROTHER'S FAMILY, AND TWO SISTERS OF MINE WHO MOVED, WHO HAD TO MOVE TO OUR PLACE, BECAUSE THE HOUSE WAS CRITICALLY DAMAGED BY A NEIGHBORING BOMB.

>> WELL, THEIR HOME WAS DESTROYED NOT LONG AFTER THAT INTERVIEW.

MOSAB SEEKING REFUGE IN EGYPT WITH HIS WIFE AND THREE CHILDREN.

AND HE TOLD CHRISTIANE ABOUT THEIR HARROWING JOURNEY THERE.

>> MOSAB, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

>> YOU ARE IN CAIRO NOW, BUT THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE TO YOU IN GAZA, THERE HAD BEEN AN ISRAELI ATTACK, AND YOU BASICALLY LEFT.

YOU WERE ABLE TO GET OUT OF GAZA.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE WITH YOUR FAMILY RIGHT NOW?

>> WHAT I KNOW IS THAT MY PARENTS AND MY SIBLINGS, THREE OF THEM, AND THEIR CHILDREN, THE YOUNGEST IS 1 MONTH OLD, THE BOY WAS BORN LAST MONTH, THEY ARE STILL STUCK IN THE CAMP.

THEY ARE UNABLE TO FIND FOOD.

I WAS ON A CALL WITH MY YOUNGER BROTHER, WHO IS THE FATHER OF THIS 1-MONTH-OLD BABY, HE TOLD ME THAT THE LAST TIME THEY COULD EAT SOME MEAT WAS 16 DAYS AGO.

WHICH WAS BEFORE THE START OF THE HOLY MONTH OF RAMADAN, AND HE WAS -- I'M HONEST, HE WAS CRYING TO ME.

HE SAID, WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR FOOD, WE HAVE BEEN RUNNING AFTER SOME FOOD THAT IS DROPPED FROM THE SKY BY SOME PLANES, AND BY THE WAY, SOME OF THE FOOD THAT WAS DROPPED, FELL IN THE SEA, AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE WENT INSIDE, WENT INTO THE SEA, AND SOME OF THEM DROWNED.

THE LAST TIME I WAS ABLE TO HEAR MY MOTHER'S VOICE WAS ALSO 20 DAYS AGO.

THERE'S NO WAY OF HEARING WHAT IS HAPPENING TO YOUR FAMILY, EXCEPT WHEN THERE IS ANY BREAKING NEWS.

>> MOSAB, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT THIS HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE HUNGER AND STARVATION THAT'S BEING EXPERIENCED BY YOUR OWN FAMILY, AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS RAMADAN, AS WE SAID, IT IS MEANT TO BE A TIME WHEN FAMILIES CAN GET TOGETHER AND AT LEAST ONCE A DAY HAVE A BREAK FAST, GET TOGETHER AROUND FOOD.

WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

ARE THEY EVEN ABLE TO CONGREGATE?

>> WELL, IN FACT, MANY OF THE FAMILIES ARE SCATTERED AROUND THE GAZA STRIP, I HAVE TWO SIBLINGS WHO ARE IN RAFAH RIGHT NOW, LIVING IN TENTS.

THEY ARE SEPARATED FROM MY PARENTS.

THEY CANNOT RETURN TO BE WITH MY PARENTS AND OTHER SIBLINGS IN NORTHERN GAZA, SO, FAMILIES ARE SEPARATED FROM EACH OTHER.

THERE ARE OTHER FAMILIES WHO LOST MOST OF THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, THERE ARE FAMILIES THAT ARE NO LONGER WITH US THIS MONTH.

>> AND I THINK, IF YOU REMEMBER, THAT CONVOY THAT ISRAEL TOOK IN SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, WHERE OVER 100 PEOPLE ENDED UP DYING, TRYING TO GET FOOD ON THAT CONVOY, THERE WAS SHOOTING, THERE WAS A STAMPEDE.

ONE OF YOUR RELATIVES ALSO WAS KILLED THERE, RIGHT?

>> IT WAS NOT A RELATIVE OF MINE, IT WAS A VERY CLOSE FRIEND OF MINE NAMED NASIM.

I READ SOME NEWS ABOUT THE KILLING OF A WHOLE FAMILY.

I SCROLLED DOWN TO LOOK AT THE -- AT THE PREVIOUS NEWS FROM THAT PAGE THAT LISTED THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE, AND I FOUND THAT MY CLOSE FRIEND WAS KILLED IN THAT MASSACRE.

SO, THE FAMILY, WE MOURN THE DEATH OF THEIR OLDEST CHILD, ONE DAY BEFORE THEY, THEMSELVES, WERE BURIED UNDER THE RUBBLE OF THEIR HOUSE.

THE WHOLE FAMILY WAS KILLED.

AND THERE IS NO ONE THAT WAS LEFT ALIVE TO MOURN THE DEATH OF THE -- THE FAMILY MEMBERS.

THE OTHER RELATIVE WHO WAS KILLED OF MINE WAS MY WIFE'S UNCLE, HE WAS BORN DEAF AND MUTE.

HE WAS KIDNAPPED FROM INSIDE AN UNRWA SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS SHELTERING IN NORTH GAZA.

HE WAS TAKEN WITH YOUNG MEN.

THE NEXT DAY HE WAS RELEASED, SO, HE WENT BACK TO THE SCHOOL WHERE HE WAS TAKEN FROM TO REUNITE WITH HIS WIFE, AND HIS TWO OTHER CHILDREN, THE YOUNGEST IS A FEW MONTHS OLD.

WHEN HE ARRIVED AT THE GATE OF THE SCHOOL, HE WAS SHOT BY AN ISRAELI SNIPER.

>> MOSAB, IT'S HARD, HARD TO HEAR THIS.

AND I'M GOING TO GET TO WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, ACTUALLY, YOU WERE DETAINED, WHEN YOU TRIED TO LEAVE.

AND IN A MOMENT, I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT, BUT FIRST, I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE AN ARTIST, YOU'RE A WRITER, A POET, AND WE'VE HEARD AND WE'VE READ, NOT ONLY YOUR ACCOUNTS OF THE DESTRUCTION, NOT JUST OF LIVES, BUT OF CULTURE AND OF INSTITUTIONS, WHETHER IT'S THE CULTURAL INSTITUTION THAT WAS BUILT IN THE '80s, THE SEVENTH CENTURY MOSQUE, WHETHER IT'S LIBRARIES AND THE ZOO AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

AND I JUST WANTED YOU TO REFLECT ON THAT, AS WELL, THE -- THE DESTRUCTION OF GAZA AS A -- AS A CENTER OF CIVILIZATION.

>> WELL, GAZA HAS A LOT OF HISTORY.

PEOPLE IN GAZA VALUE HISTORY, VALUE ART, VALUE POETRY AND NOVELS AND EVERY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CULTURE THAT PEOPLE CELEBRATE AROUND THE WORLD.

I THINK WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING IS NOT ONLY GETTING RID OF PEOPLE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN WANTING TO GET RID OF FOR A LONG TIME, BUT THEY ARE TRYING TO GET RID OF WHATEVER REMINDS PEOPLE OF THEIR LIVES IN GAZA.

I MEAN, THEY ARE NOT BOMBING ONE HOUSE OR TWO HOUSES, THEY ARE DETONATING NEIGHBORHOODS.

>> AND, IN FACT, FIGURES SHOW FROM OVERHEAD AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY AND FROM ACCOUNTS FROM INSIDE THAT SOMETHING LIKE 70% OF BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN EITHER DESTROYED OR DAMAGED IN THE LAST FIVE TO SIX MONTHS.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU TO READ A LITTLE BIT FROM ONE OF YOUR POEMS, ONE OF THE LATEST ONES, SO, IF YOU COULD READ A FEW LINES OF WHAT IS HOME.

>> YEAH.

SO, THIS IS CALLED "WHAT IS HOME," AND IT'S FROM MY POETRY COLLECTION.

WHAT IS HOME?

IT IS THE SHADE OF TREES ON MY WAY TO SCHOOL BEFORE THEY WERE UPROOTED.

IT IS MY GRANDPARENTS' BLACK AND WHITE WEDDING PHOTO BEFORE THE WALLS CRUMBLED.

IT IS MY UNCLE'S PRAYER RUG, WHERE DOZENS OF ANTS SLEPT ON WINTRY NIGHTS, BEFORE IT WAS LOOTED AND PUT IN A MUSEUM.

IT IS THE OVEN MY MOTHER USED TO BAKE BREAD AND ROAST CHICKEN BEFORE A BOMB REDUCED OUR HOUSE TO ASHES.

IT IS THE CAFE WHERE I WATCHED FOOTBALL MATCHES AND PLAYED.

MY CHILD STOPS ME.

CAN A FOUR-LETTER WORD HALT ALL OF THESE?

>> IT'S VERY, VERY POIGNANT.

IT'S VERY POIGNANT.

AND SO, I NEED TO ASK YOU, WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOUR HOME?

AS I SAID, WHEN WE FIRST INTERVIEWED YOU MONTHS AGO, YOU SAT IN FRONT OF A BOOK CASE FULL OF YOUR BOOKS THAT YOU HAVE PAINSTAKINGLY BOUGHT, COLLECTED, AND KEPT OVER THE YEARS.

WHAT REMAINS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU REMINDED ME OF THIS, AND IT BRINGS TEARS TO MY EYES.

I MEAN, I'VE BUILT MY OWN HOME LIBRARY, BY BRINGING WITH ME FROM MY TRIPS TO THE STATES.

I TRAVELED TO THE UNITED STATES THREE TIMES BEFORE THE WAR.

AND BY THE WAY, I RETURNED TO GAZA TEN DAYS BEFORE THE OCTOBER 7th HAPPENED.

I USED TO BRING WITH ME -- THE FIRST TIME I RETURNED TO GAZA, I BROUGHT 120 BOOKS.

SOME OF THEM WERE SIGNED BY AUTHORS, FRIENDS, THE SECOND TIME I RETURNED, I BROUGHT WITH ME 70 BOOKS, AND THE LAST TIME, I BROUGHT 20 BOOKS.

I MEAN, THE DESTRUCTION OF A HOUSE IS SOMETHING, BUT A DESTRUCTION OF WHAT USED TO BE INSIDE THE HOUSE IS SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE BUILT, THE MEMORIES THAT I HAVE BUILT WITH MY CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, THE BLANKETS THAT I BROUGHT WITH ME AS GIFTS FROM MY FRIENDS IN THE STATES, SOME OF THE SOUVENIRS, I MEAN, I NOW REMEMBER THE SHIELD THAT I GOT AS AN AWARD FOR MY PALESTINE BOOK AWARD.

THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT I LOST, BUT FORTUNATELY, NONE OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS WERE KILLED.

WHEN I TALK ABOUT MY TRAGEDY, I SEE IT AS A SMALL THING COMPARED TO WHAT HAPPENED TO OTHER PEOPLE, WHEN I REMEMBER THAT MANY OF MY FRIENDS, INCLUDING THOSE FAMILIES, MY FRIEND'S WHOLE FAMILY WERE BURIED UNDER THE RUBBLE OF THE HOUSE.

I SEE MY TRAGEDY AS SOMETHING REALLY SMALL.

>> IT'S REALLY HORRIBLE AND IT'S AFFECTING THE WHOLE WORLD, AS WELL.

I WANT TO ASK YOU TO GO BACK TO NOVEMBER, WHEN YOU FINALLY DECIDED TO LEAVE, AND ON YOUR WAY OUT, YOU WERE ARRESTED AND HELD IN DETENTION FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

YOU WROTE ABOUT IT IN "THE NEW YORK ER."

TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED.

YOU WERE ARRESTED AND HELD FOR MANY HOURS.

WHY?

WHAT WAS THE REASON GIVEN?

>> WELL, I THINK FOR ME, AS A GAZAN -- TO BE A GAZAN IS A REASON FOR ISRAEL TO KILL YOU, TO KIDNAP YOU, TO WOUND YOU.

I WAS, BY THE WAY, I WAS WOUNDED WHEN I WAS 16 YEARS OLD IN THE 2008 AND 2009 ISRAELI ONSLAUGHT ON GAZA.

I WAS 16.

I SURVIVED, AND I WAS KIDNAPPED BY THE ISRAELI ARMY AND I WAS TRYING TO CROSS FROM NORTH GAZA.

AS WE WERE ALL DIRECTED BY THE ISRAELI ARMY, TO CROSS FROM NORTH GAZA WHERE WE WERE STAYING, TO SOUTH GAZA, TO LEAVE WITH MY FAMILY, SO, OUR YOUNGEST SON WAS -- IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, HE WAS BORN IN BOSTON, WHEN I WAS DOING MY FELLOWSHIP AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY, SO, WE WERE DIRECTED BY THE AMERICAN EMBASSY TO HEAD TO THE RAFAH BORDER CROSSING.

SO, THESE LISTS, BY THE WAY, THE LIST THAT LISTS PEOPLE'S NAMES TO CROSS TO RAFAH, IS APPROVED BY THE ISRAELI AUTHORITY.

SO, I WAS -- I HAD ZERO SPECULATIONS THAT THEY WOULD CALL ON ME, BUT THEY CALLED TO ME, I DROPPED MY BOY, WHEN THE ISRAELI SOLDIER SHOUTED, DROP THE BOY, DROP YOUR BELONGINGS AND COME TO US.

THEY TOOK ME TO AN AREA THAT'S A FEW METERS AWAY FROM THE ISRAELI.

I WAS FORCED TO TAKE OFF ALL MY CLOTHES, EVEN MY BOXER SHORTS, IN FRONT OF THREE ISRAELI SOLDIERS, WHO, TWO OF THEM WERE POINTING THEIR GUNS AT ME AND THE PERSON NEXT TO ME, AND ONE SOLDIER WAS SAYING ORDERS, DROP YOUR CLOTHES, DROP YOUR I.D.s.

I WAS TRYING TO TELL THEM, HEY, PLEASE, TALK TO ME, I'M GOING TO RAFAH, I HAVE AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, THIS IS AN AMERICAN PASSPORT, BUT THEY DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING, AND ONE OF THE SOLDIERS SAID TO THE OTHER, OH, UNRWA, AND I SAID, YES, I'M A TEACHER.

HE SAID, SHUT UP, SON OF A -- I WAS SHOCKED BY THE WAY THEY WERE TALKING TO ME, ALTHOUGH THERE WAS NO PROOF THAT I DID ANYTHING TO THEM, BUT I LOST A LOT OF FRIENDS, I WAS WOUNDED WHEN I WAS 16, SO, I'M THE VICTIM, I HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM BEFORE, BEFORE OCTOBER 7th.

BUT THAT'S NOTHING TO THEM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T SEE US AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN OCCUPIED AND OPPRESSED FOR DECADES, NOT ONLY FOR DAYS OR WEEKS.

HOURS, AND THEY BASICALLY SAID, SORRY ABOUT THE MISTAKE.

THIS IS THE RESPONSE WE GOT FROM THEM.

DURING IDF OPERATIONS IN THE GAZA STRIP, THERE WAS INTELLIGENCE INDICATING OF A NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS BETWEEN SEVERAL CIVILIANS AND TERROR ORGANIZATIONS INSIDE THE GAZA STRIP.

THE CIVILIANS, AMONG THEM, MOSAB, WERE TAKEN IN FOR QUESTIONING.

AFTER QUESTIONING, HE WAS RELEASED.

THEY END BY SAYING, THE IDF STRATEGY ADHERES TO INTERNATIONAL LAW, AIMING TO MINIMIZE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES, CONTRASTING HAMAS' INTENTIONAL TARGETING OF ISRAELI CIVILIANS.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THIS IS SOMETHING THEY SAID TO CNN, TO ANY, YOU KNOW, AGENCY OR ANY MAGAZINE, REACHED OUT TO THEM ABOUT ME, BUT IN FACT, THEY ARE NOT CORRECT.

THEY DID NOT ONLY INVESTIGATE ME, THEY BLINDFOLDED ME, THEY HANDCUFFED ME, THEY TORTURED ME, THEY KICKED ME IN THE FACE, THEY KICKED ME IN MY -- IN MY STOMACH, THEY KEPT ME ON MY KNEES FOR HOURS.

AND WHEN THEY RELEASED ME, THEY DIDN'T GIVE ME BACK MY -- OUR PASSPORTS, NEITHER THE AMERICAN PASSPORT -- THE PALESTINIAN PASSPORT.

THEY DIDN'T RETURN MY WALLET, BY CREDIT CARDS, MY WATCH, MY CLOTHES.

SO, THEY DID NOT ONLY INVESTIGATE ME, YOU KNOW.

>> ALL RIGHT, WELL, LET ME JUST READ THIS, THEN.

DETAINEES, THIS IS THE IDF AGAIN.

DETAINEES ARE TREATED IN LINE WITH INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS, INCLUDING NECESSARY CHECKS FOR CONCEALED WEAPONS.

THE IDF PRIORITIZING DETAINEE DIGNITY AND WILL REVIEW ANY DEVIATIONS FROM PROTOCOL.

SO, MOSAB, THEY'RE GOING TO REVIEW IT, THEY SAY.

I CAN SEE YOU GRINNING.

BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD THIS.

>> YEAH, WHAT WE SEE IN THE STREETS.

WHAT WE SEE IN THE STREETS OF PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, NAKED AND, YOU KNOW, -- AND WALKED IN THE STREET WITH ONLY BOXER SHORTS IN THE COLD, YOU KNOW, THIS IS -- THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DIGNITY.

>> LET ME, THOUGH, END BY ASKING YOU THIS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALSO WRITTEN RECENTLY ABOUT A FUTURE, AND YOU WRITE, "I HOPE THAT WHEN THE WAR ENDS, I CAN GO BACK TO GAZA TO HELP REBUILD MY FAMILY HOME AND FILL IT WITH BOOKS.

THAT ONE DAY, ALL ISRAELIS CAN SEE US AS THEIR EQUALS, AS PEOPLE WHO NEED TO LIVE ON OUR OWN LAND IN SAFETY AND PROSPERITY AND BUILD A FUTURE."

HOW DOES THIS END, MOSAB?

HOW DO YOU SEE IT ENDING?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, IS VERY DESPERATE.

THE PRESENT IS VERY DESPERATE, UNFORTUNATELY.

NOTHING IS CHANGING, I MEAN -- I THINK THE CHANGE NEEDS NOT TO COME ONLY FROM INSIDE ISRAEL, BUT THE CHANGE SHOULD BE COMING FROM THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION.

THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO, I THINK, CORRECT SOME OF ITS MISTAKES BY TRYING TO DROP SOME FOOD IN GAZA, BUT I THINK THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

I THINK THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION, ALONGSIDE, ALONG WITH DROPPING SOME FOOD AID TO GAZANS, THEY SHOULD, AND THEY MUST, STOP SHIPPING, NOT DROPPING, SHIPPING, YOU KNOW, WEAPONS TO ISRAEL.

WHICH, IN TURN, DROPS THESE WEAPONS ON GAZANS.

I MEAN, I THINK THIS CHANGE SHOULD COME FROM THE FREE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD, AND I HOPE THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION WOULD HELP ACHIEVE PEACE BY ENFORCING IT, BY STOP -- BY STOPPING SENDING MORE AND MORE WEAPONS TO ISRAEL.

>> AND I GUESS FINALLY, WHAT SHOULD PALESTINIANS DO, IT MIGHT BE A DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ASK YOU NOW, GIVEN THE LEVEL OF -- OF SLAUGHTER AND THE TERRIBLE STARVATION, THE BRINK OF FAMINE, MORE THAN 32,000 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA.

WHAT SHOULD YOU -- THEY DO, WHAT ABOUT HAMAS, I MEAN, IT HAS RESPONSIBILITY, AS WELL?

>> LET'S SAY HAMAS WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1987, THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE DIDN'T START IN 1987.

SO, THE PROBLEM IS NOT, I THINK, IS ONLY WITH HAMAS.

HAMAS COULD BE A PROBLEM, IT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, -- IT HAS NOT BEEN GOOD TO MANY OF US IN GAZA, YOU KNOW, THERE IS ALWAYS SOME CONFLICT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT, OR WHOEVER RULES OVER PEOPLE, AND WITH THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES, SO, HAMAS IS NOT LOVED BY ALL GAZANS, MANY PEOPLE WANTED TO GET RID OF HAMAS, BUT NOT BY -- BY KILLING THEM, OF COURSE.

SO, I THINK WHAT PALESTINIANS NEED TO HAVE IS TO NOT HAVE ANYONE CONTROL THEM, BECAUSE WE NEED TO HAVE OUR OWN COUNTRY, WE NEED TO DECIDE WHO WOULD RULE -- WHO WOULD RULE OVER US, JUST LIKE ANYONE IN THE WORLD, ABOUT A MILLION PEOPLE IN GAZA, HALF OF GAZA'S POPULATION, ARE UNDER THE AGE OF 19, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY WERE BORN IN 2004, AND THE ELECTIONS WERE IN 2006.

SO, HALF THE POPULATION IN GAZA DID NOT VOTE FOR HAMAS, INCLUDING ME, WHO IS NOW 31 YEARS OLD.

I'M 31 YEARS OLD, I'VE NEVER VOTED IN MY LIFE.

>> UNDERSTOOD.

MOSAB ABU TOHA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO TURKEY, WHERE LONGTIME PRESIDENT RECEP ERDOGAN HAS BEEN DEALT A HEAVY BLOW IN RECENT ELECTIONS.

THE MAIN OPPOSITION PARTY SWEEPING TO VICTORY IN CRUCIAL CITIES, DEFEATING THE PRESIDENT'S JUSTICE AND DEVELOPMENT PARTY.

IT'S A HUGE MOMENT FOR TURKEY, AND CORRESPONDENT SCOTT McLEAN IS LIVE FROM ISTANBUL WITH THE DETAILS.

SCOTT, CAN'T UNDERSTATE OR OVERSTATE, REALLY, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WHAT WE SAW OVER THE WEEKEND, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE SAW THE HUGE VICTORY, THE PRESIDENTIAL VICTORY, LAST YEAR FOR ERDOGAN, BUT RIGHT NOW, A CLEAR MESSAGE BEING SENT TO HIM ABOUT THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY, THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY.

>> YEAH, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IF YOU CAN BELIEVE IT, BIANNA, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT PRESIDENT ERDOGAN'S JUSTICE AND DEVELOPMENT PARTY IS USED TO.

THIS IS THE VERY FIRST TIME IN THEIR EXISTENCE THAT THEY LOST THE POPULAR VOTE, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WHERE THIS IS THE LOWEST SHARE OF THE POPULAR VOTE THAT THEY HAVE HAD SINCE THEIR INITIAL ELECTION RUN BACK IN 2002.

AS YOU SAID, THEY MANAGED TO LOSE PLACES THAT THEY WERE EXPECTED TO, ANKARA.

THEY LOST PLACES THEY HAD POURED A LOT OF RESOURCES IN, LIKE ISTANBUL, WHERE ERDOGAN ACTUALLY LOST HIS OWN DISTRICT, WHERE HE WAS BORN AND RAISED.

BUT THEY ALSO LOST IN PLACES THAT HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN CONSIDERED STRONGHOLDS.

ONE EXAMPLE, A CITY IN SOUTHERN TURKEY, IT IS VERY WELL-KNOWN, QUITE RELIGIOUS, QUITE CONSERVATIVE.

IT'S A PLACE WHERE THE PARTY HAD 50% OF THE VOTE IN THE 2019 LOCAL ELECTION.

THIS TIME, THEY HAD JUST ABOUT HALF OF THAT.

AND SO, OBVIOUSLY, THERE HAS BEEN A MASSIVE TECH TONIC SHIFT HERE, AND WHAT WAS INTERESTING TO SEE, THOUGH, WAS PRESIDENT ERDOGAN IN THE AFTERMATH OF THIS GIVING NOT A VICTORY SPEECH, BUT A SPEECH TO HIS SUPPORTERS IN AN CAR THAT, WHERE HE WAS MUCH MORE REFLECTIVE ABOUT WHAT WENT WRONG.

LISTEN.

>> Translator: WE WILL OPENHEARTEDLY ANALYZE THE RESULTS OF THE MARCH 31st ELECTIONS WITHIN OUR PARTY AND MAKE OUR SELF-CRITICISM BOLDLY.

ALTHOUGH NOT FINALIZED YET, THE ELECTION RESULTS SHOW US THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING A LOSS OF GROUND IN LOCAL ADMINISTRATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

OF COURSE, WE WILL DISCUSS THE REASONS FOR THIS DECLINE WE SEE ON THE LOCAL BASIS.

>> IT IS ALSO WORTH POINTING OUT THAT THIS IS AN ELECTION THAT PRESIDENT ERDOGAN HAD REALLY INVESTED HIMSELF IN.

HIS FACE AROUND ISTANBUL WAS ON BANNERS AND BILLBOARDS ALL OVER TOWN.

HE HAD COME HERE SEVERAL TIMES IN THE FINAL DAYS OF THE CAMPAIGN TRYING TO SHORE UP HIS SUPPORT, SO, THIS LOSS HAS REALLY GOT TO STING EXTRA FOR HIM.

>> YEAH, ISTANBUL CONSTITUTES 30% OF THE COUNTRY'S ECONOMY, HE HAD BEEN A FORMER MAYOR THERE, AND HE HAD PLANS TO PUT FORWARD A NEW CONSTITUTION, WHICH WOULD EXTEND HIS PRESIDENTIAL TERM.

WE'LL SEE HOW ALL OF THAT WILL BE IMPACTED BY THE RESULTS OF THIS PRETTY SHOCKING ELECTION OVER THE WEEKEND.

SCOTT McLEAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> WELL, SMARTPHONES AND SOCIAL MEDIA HAVE ALTERED CHILDREN'S DEVELOPMENT, AND OUR NEXT GUEST IS ISSUING A CALL TO ACTION.

IN HIS NEW BOOK, JONATHAN HAIDT INVESTIGATING THE COLLAPSE OF MENTAL HEALTH.

HE JOINS HARI TO TALK ABOUT HOW PARENTS CAN MANAGE THE NEGATIVE IMPACTS.

>> JONATHAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOUR NEXT BOOK IS CALLED "THE ANXIOUS GENERATION."

AND YOU AND I HAVE TALKED BEFORE, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL ABOUT NOT SEEMING ALARMIST AND THIS BOOK, WHAT'S FASCINATING TO ME ABOUT IT, IS THAT YOU SUPPLEMENT SO MUCH OF YOUR IDEAS WITH EMPIRICAL DATA AND RESEARCH THAT IS PROVING THIS POINT.

WHAT IS THE EPIDEMIC OF MENTAL ILLNESS, AND WHERE DO WE FIND THE DATA FOR THAT?

>> WHEN YOU AND I FIRST SPOKE ABOUT THIS, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN BACK IN 2019, I WAS NOT AS ALARMIST, BECAUSE WE WEREN'T SURE.

IT WAS CLEAR THAT SOMETHING WAS GOING WRONG WITH TEEN MENTAL HEALTH.

WE HAD GRAPHS SHOWING THAT IN 2013 THAT RATES BEGAN RISING.

BUT THIS WAS AN ACADEMIC DEBATE, AND THERE STILL IS, ABOUT WHETHER IT'S CAUSED BY SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT'S CORRELATED WITH IT.

GIRLS WHO USE IT HEAVILY HAVE THREE-TIMES AS LIKELY TO BE DEPRESSED, BUT SCIENTISTS ARE GOING TO DEBATE, IT IS CAUSAL, OR JUST A CORRELATION?

SINCE THEN, I'VE LEARNED A LOT.

I'VE GATHERED ALL THE STUDIES I CAN, INCLUDE, EXPERIMENTS.

THERE ARE EXPERIMENTS THAT SHOW WHEN YOU RANDOMLY ASSIGN PEOPLE TO DIFFERENT CONDITIONS, IT CAUSES THEM TO GET MORE DEPRESSED OR LESS DEPRESSED.

SO BUT THE REALLY SHOCKING THING TO ME, THAT REALLY MADE ME INTO A -- I'D LIKE TO SAY AN ALARM THE DISCOVERY THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO US IN AMERICA AS HAPPENED IN CANADA, BRITAIN, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, AND SCANDINAVIA.

AT THE SAME TIME IN THIS SAME WAY.

HITTING GIRLS HARDEST, AND YOUNG GIRLS EVEN HARDER.

SO, ONCE IT BECAME CLEAR, THIS IS AN INTERNATIONAL EPIDEMIC OF TEEN MENTAL ILLNESS.

IT BEGAN IN THE EARLY 2010s.

IT'S HITTING GIRLS HARDEST, THOUGH THE BOYS STORY IS REALLY INTERESTING AND IS VERY BAD, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

SO, THAT'S WHY I'VE BEEN IN THIS BOOK, IF YOU WANT TO SAY I'M SORT OF LEAVING MY OLD SELF BEHIND AND SAYING, WE NEED TO ACT, LIKE, NOW, NOT IN 2025, LIKE, WE NEED TO REALLY MAKE CHANGES THIS YEAR, BECAUSE OTHERWISE, ANOTHER YEAR OF KIDS IS GOING TO BE CONSIGNED TO THIS PHONE-BASED CHILDHOOD, WHICH INTERFERES WITH DEVELOPMENT.

>> SO, YOUR ARGUMENT IS NOT THAT IT'S THE TECHNOLOGY THAT'S BAD OR THAT IT'S THE INTERNET THAT'S BAD, YOU ACTUALLY TRY TO DRAW A TIMELINE FROM, WELL, GETTING ONE OF THESE SUPER COMPUTERS IN YOUR POCKET TO THE FRONT-FACING SELFIE CAMERA TO BROADBAND AND THEN SOCIAL MEDIA, I MEAN, WHAT HAVE EACH OF THESE KIND OF TECHNOLOGICAL EVOLUTIONS DONE TO HOW OUR BRAINS EVOLVE?

>> SO, THE TECHNOLOGY, THAT TECHNOLOGY IS GREAT, THE INTERNET IS GREAT, BUT THINGS REALLY CHANGE IN THE EARLY 2010s.

SO, JUST TO WALK YOU THROUGH IT, IN 2010, I REALLY GO INTO THIS IN DETAIL IN THE BOOK, IN 2011, ONLY 20% OF AMERICAN TEENS HAD A SMARTPHONE.

KIDS WERE STILL USING FLIP PHONES.

THEY DID NOT HAVE HIGH SPEED INTERNET, MOST OF THEM.

THEY DID NOT HAVE UNLIMITED DATA PLANS.

YOU USE YOUR FLIP PHONE TO TEXT OR CALL YOUR FRIENDS TO GET TOGETHER.

THAT'S IT.

KIDS WERE STILL SEEING OTHER KIDS IN 2010.

THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF WHAT I CALL THE GREAT REWIRING.

OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, THE SMARTPHONE GETS A FRONT-FACING CAMERA IN 2010, INSTA GRAM COMES OUT IN 2010, BUT IT BECOMES SUPER POPULAR IN 2012 WHEN FACEBOOK BUYS IT.

SO, THAT'S WHEN THE GIRLS REALLY SOCIALIZING ONTO INSTAGRAM.

YOU GET THE SUPER VIRAL SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS.

SO, YOU GET FRONT-FACING CAMERA, HIGH SPEED DATA, OH, YOU GET NOTIFICATIONS, THE ORIGINAL iPHONE DIDN'T INTERRUPT YOU, YOU PULLED IT UP WHEN YOU WANTED IT.

SO, WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IN 2010, THERE IS NO SIGN OF A MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

EVERYTHING IS FINE.

SO, WE WERE ALL SUPER OPTIMISTIC IN 2011, EVEN UP TO 2012.

BUT THAT'S WHEN THE MENTAL ILLNESS CRISIS BEGINS, AND ALL THE NUMBERS GO WAY UP FOR GIRLS AND ALSO UP SUBSTANTIALLY FOR BOYS, THAT BY 2015, WE HAVE THE MILLENNIALS, THEY JUST BARELY MADE I PUBERTY BEFORE THEY GOT THIS.

THEY WERE IN COLLEGE OR LATE HIGH SCHOOL WHEN THEY ADOPTED THIS PHONE-BASED LIFE.

WE'RE ALL DOING IT.

WE'RE ALL DOMINATED BY OUR TECHNOLOGY.

>> WALK US THROUGH THE ACTUAL HARMS THAT'S NOW SCIENTIFICALLY CONNECTED TO KIDS USE AND INCREASED USE OF SCREENS AND SOCIAL MEDIA SPECIFICALLY ON SMARTPHONES.

>> SO, FIRST WE HAVE TO ESTABLISH THE NUMBERS HERE, WHICH ARE STUNNING.

THE LATEST DATA FROM GALLUP IS AROUND NINE HOURS A DAY IS WHAT THEY SPEND ON THEIR PHONES AND SCREENS.

FIVE HOURS A DAY OF THAT IS SOCIAL MEDIA, ANOTHER THREE TO FIVE IS ALL THE OTHER STUFF THAT THEY DO.

SO, IMAGINE IF YOUR CHILD, IF YOU TAKE NINE OR TEN HOURS OUT OF THEIR DAY EVERY SINGLE DAY, WHERE IS IT GOING TO COME FROM?

THEY SPEND LESS TIME SLEEPING.

LESS TIME WITH OTHER KIDS.

LESS TIME OUTSIDE.

LESS TIME EXERCISING.

A LOT MORE TIME BEING SOLITARY.

OH, VERY LITTLE READING OF BOOKS, NO HOBBIES, THERE'S NO TIME.

THERE'S NO TIME FOR ANYTHING.

SO, THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

IT PUSHES OUT ALL THE GOOD THINGS OF CHILDHOOD THAT WE WANT OUR KIDS TO HAVE.

WHEN YOU GIVE A KID A SMARTPHONE, IT'S LIKELY TO MOVE TO THE CENTER OF HER LIFE, AND THAT'S WHAT SHE'S GOING TO DO FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

SO, THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN WAYS OF HARM.

IT JUST DEPRIVES YOU OF EVERYTHING ELSE.

IT ALSO FRAGMENTS YOUR ATTENTION.

YOU AND I ARE PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN PAY ATTENTION TO THINGS, WE CAN DO OUR WORK, BUT IT'S HARDER NOW THAN IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO.

THERE'S CONSTANT INTERRUPTIONS, BUT WE'RE STILL ABLE TO DO IT, BUT OUT'S A STRUGGLE.

A TEENAGER JUST STARTING PUBERTY, AGE 10, 11, 12, THE PREFRONTAL CORTEX HAS NOT YET REWIRED FOR THE ADULT CONFIGURATION, THEY'RE NOT DUR THEY'RE NOT VERY GOOD AT PAYING ATTENTION.

AND EARLY PUBERTY IS WHEN THAT SKILL REALLY DEVELOPS, AND SO, TO HAVE THEM TRYING TO DEVELOP THAT SKILL WHILE BEING INTERRUPTED EVERY FEW MINUTES, THE AVERAGE TEEN NOW GETS, ONE STUDY FOUND, 257 NOTIFICATIONS A DAY.

257 INTERRUPTIONS EVERY DAY.

IT'S VERY HARD TO FOCUS ON ANYTHING.

SO, YOU GET FRAGMENTED ATTENTION, AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW PERMANENT THIS IS.

ANOTHER HARM IS ADDICTION.

THE BRAIN ADAPTS TO THAT CONSTANT LEVEL OF STIMULATIONS, SO, WHEN YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT, YOU'RE IN A DEFICIT MODE.

YOU ARE UNHAPPY, YOU FEEL TERRIBLE.

SO, THESE DEVICES ARE DESIGNED TO GRAB HOLD OF OUR KIDS' ATTENTION AND NEVER LET GO AND THEY ARE VERY EFFECTIVE.

I COULD GO ON.

THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER AVENUES OF HARM, BUT THERE ARE SOME OF THE BIG ONES I COVER IN THE BOOK.

>> CAN WE TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ALSO THE DATA AND HOW IT WORKS ON THE IMPACTS TO GIRLS VERSUS BOYS?

>> WHEN I STARTED WRITING THE BOOK, I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE A STORY PRIMARILY ABOUT WHAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS DOING TO GIRLS, BECAUSE I'VE GOT A LOT OF DATA ON THAT, AND BECAUSE THE GRAPHS ARE LIKE HOCKEY STICKS.

THEY ARE GOING ALONG, THERE'S NOTHING HAPPENING, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, ONE DAY IN 2013, THEY ALL START SHOOTING UPWARDS.

AND IT'S THE HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR SELF-HARM THAT ARE MOST STUNNING, AND THEY'RE THE SAME IN BRITAIN, CANADA, AUSTRALIA, IT'S ABSOLUTELY STUNNING WHAT'S HAPPENED TO GIRLS SINCE 2013.

FOR BOYS, I COULDN'T FIND A SMOKING GUN, I COULDN'T SAY, OH, WELL, IT'S VIDEO GAMES, OR, IT'S SOCIAL MEDIA.

FOR BOYS, THE RISE IN MENTAL ILLNESS IS SLOWER, AND THE KEY THING ABOUT BOYS, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT IT IS GIVING THEM DIAGNOSABLE MENTAL ILLNESS, WHAT I FOUND OUT WORKING WITH MY RESEARCH PARTNER, WE FINALLY FIGURED OUT IS THAT FOR BOYS, THE ISSUE IS, THEY'VE BEEN WITHDRAWING FROM THE REAL WORLD REALLY SINCE THE '80s AND '90s.

THEY DON'T GO OUTSIDE.

BOYS ARE BASICALLY LOCKED IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT, THEY'RE NOT TURNING INTO MEN, THEY'RE DROPPING OUT OF SCHOOL, THEY'RE DEVELOPING OUT OF THE WORKFORCE.

SO, WE'RE LOSING A GENERATION OF BOYS.

IT'S NOT AS CLEAR, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WEALTHY EDUCATED GROUPS, THE GENDER GAP IS NOT SO BIG.

ONCE YOU GET TO MIDDLE CLASS AND BELOW, THE GIRLS ARE DOING OKAY IN TERMS OF SCHOOL AND WORK, AND THE BOYS ARE JUST NOT.

SO, THE PROBLEMS ARE MORE DIFFUSE, BUT THEY ARE EXTREMELY SERIOUS FOR BOYS.

>> THERE ARE SO MANY PARENTS THAT WILL TELL YOU THAT IF YOU TAKE A SMARTPHONE AWAY FROM A CHILD, THAT THERE'S ALMOST LIKE -- THAT YOU'VE BROKEN THIS TRACTOR BEAM, THEY'VE HAD THIS LOCK AND THEY'RE REALLY GENERALLY SPEAKING, AGGRESSIVE.

IT'S A VERY STRANGE EQUATION, IT'S LIKE, IF IT WAS ANY OTHER KIND OF AN ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCE OR DRUG, A PARENT WOULD PROBABLY SAY, LET'S GET THAT OUT OF THE HOUSE AND NOT USE IT.

>> THE MOST POWERFUL ARGUMENT A KID CAN MAKE IS, MOM, I HAVE TO HAVE A SMARTPHONE, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS ONE, AND I'LL BE LEFT OUT.

I HAVE TO HAVE INSTA GRAM, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS IT, AND I'LL BE LEFT OUT.

SO, THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED A COLLECTIVE ACTION PROBLEM.

IT'S HARD FOR US AS PARENTS, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING THIS.

AND SO, WHAT I'M PROPOSING IS THAT WE COORDINATE, WE SET SOME NORMS, AND NORMS THAT WILL BE HARD TO DO ON OUR OWN, BUT MUCH EASIER TO DO IF WE DO THEM TOGETHER.

SO, JUST TO GO BACK TO THE PARENT STRUGGLING TO PUT LIMITS ON, TO MAYBE GIVE A WARNING, WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING IS ACTUALLY QUINTESSENTIAL WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS FROM ANY DRUG.

WHEN BRAIN CIRCUITS ARE USED TO GETTING THIS STIMULATION, WHETHER IT'S COCAINE, HEROIN, SLOT MACHINES, OR SOCIAL MEDIA, IF THAT HAPPENS EVERY DAY, WHEN YOU TAKE THE KID OFF, THEY FEEL HORRIBLE FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS, IT TAKES TWO, THREE WEEKS -- THREE, FOUR WEEKS, ACTUALLY, TO DETOX.

IT'S VITAL WE GIVE OUR KIDS, THAT WE DELAY THE ENTRY INTO THIS CRAZINESS AND WE GIVE OUR KIDS TIME AWAY.

>> LET'S DEAL WITH SOME OF THE RESERVATIONS THAT I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD.

YOU KNOW, BESIDES MY KID IS GOING TO MISS OUT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK PARENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IS GIVING THEIR KIDS DEVICES TO BE ABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM IN AN EMERGENCY.

WHAT ARE WAYS TO DO THAT WITHOUT NECESSARILY GIVING THEM A FULL SMARTPHONE LOADED WITH SOCIAL MEDIA?

>> AS A PARENT OF TWO HIGH SCHOOL KIDS, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO BE ABLE TO REACH YOUR CHILDREN, AND THE DESIRE FOR THEM TO REACH YOU IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG.

THAT'S THE FIRST THING.

WE'RE NOT SAYING CUT THEM OFF AND DON'T COMMUNICATE.

WE'RE SAYING, DON'T GIVE THEM THE MOST POWERFUL DISTRACTION DEVICE TO HAVE IN THEIR POCKET ALL THE TIME, INCLUDING WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO SLEEP, WHEN THEY'RE IN CLASS.

SO, GIVE THEM A FLIP PHONE.

THE MILLENNIALS HAD FLIP PHONES AND THEY TURNED OUT FINE.

MY SECOND POINT, THOUGH, IS SCHOOL SECURITY EXPERTS SAY THERE ARE PROCEDURES IN PLACE TO DEAL WITH A SCHOOL SHOOTING AND THEY INVOLVE LISTENING AND COOPERATING AND WORKING TOGETHER WITH THE TEACHER AND THE ADMINISTRATION, SO, WHERE WOULD YOU RATHER SEND YOUR KID?

I WOULD ASK ANY PARENTS WHO HAVE THIS CONCERN, AND WE ALL HAVE THE CONCERN, WOULD YOU RATHER SEND YOUR KID TO A SCHOOL IN WHICH WHEN THERE'S A POTENTIAL PROBLEM, EVERYONE, THEY ARE SILENT, THEY FOLLOW DIRECTIONS, THEY DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, THEY FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE?

WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE ONE WHERE AT THE FIRST SIGN OF A SERIOUS PROBLEM, EVERYONE IS CRYING TO THEIR PARENTS ON THE PHONE, NOT LISTENING, SO, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THE HUMAN URGE TO TALK TO YOUR KID IF THERE'S A CRISIS, BUT THE TEACHER HAS A PHONE.

ALL THE ADMINISTRATORS HAVE PHONES.

SO, WE HAVE TO LET THE PROFESSIONALS DO THEIR JOB AND NOT INTERFERE AS PARENTS.

>> ONE OF THE IDEA, THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE FOUND EACH OTHER OVER SOCIAL MEDIA.

IN A SECTION IN YOUR BOOK, YOU TALK ABOUT HOW IRONICALLY SOME OF THESE COMMUNITIES THAT MIGHT FIND THE MOST BENEFIT ARE ALSO THE ONES WHO ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE LARGEST OF NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> YEAH, SO, WE OFTEN CONFUSE THE INTERNET AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

WHAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED IS A PROBLEM THAT THE INTERNET LARGELY SOLVED.

KIDS WHO ARE ISOLATED IN THE '90s, THEY COULD FIND, IF YOU ARE GAY, IF YOU ARE BI, IF YOU ARE TRANS, THEY COULD FIND OTHER KIDS.

THE INTERNET IS AMAZING FOR THAT.

ONCE YOU START GETTING COMMUNITIES ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHAT YOU GET IS A MOVE TO THE EXTREMES.

SO, LET'S LOOK AT MENTAL HEALTH TUMBLR OR INSTAGRAM OR TIKTOK.

YOU MIGHT THINK, IT'S GREAT THAT A PERSON CAN INTERACT WITH OTHER PEOPLE THAT SHARE THEIR DISORDER.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S TRUE.

THERE'S JUST INCREASING AMOUNTS OF RESEARCH THAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS SPREADING MENTAL ILLNESS.

IT'S JUST NOT A GOOD IDEA TO HAVE TEENAGERS HANGING OUT WITH INFLUENCERS WHO ARE -- WHO ARE MOTIVATED TO BE MORE EXTREME TO GET FOLLOWERS.

SO, I DON'T BUY THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW GOOD FOR MEMBERS OF HISTOICALLY MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES.

AND STUDIES SHOW THAT WHILE MOST KIDS RECOGNIZE THAT THESE PLATFORMS ARE BAD FOR THEM, LGBTQ KIDS ARE EVEN MORE VOCIFEROUS IN SAYING, THESE PLATFORMS ARE BAD FOR US, THEY LEAD TO BULLYING AND HARASSMENT.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE INTERNET IS AMAZING, BUT SOCIAL MEDIA DOES FAR MORE HARM TO KIDS THAN WHATEVER SHREDS OF BENEFIT YOU CAN FIND FROM IT.

>> YOU HAVE TAKEN THIS MESSAGE TO SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES DIRECTLY.

ARE THEY GETTING IT?

>> WELL, THERE'S BEEN NO RESPONSE, CERTAINLY.

THEY, I THINK THEY'RE KIND OF HEMMED IN, WELL -- I SHOULD PUT IT THIS WAY.

META DID TRY A SMALL THING, THEY TRIED HIDING THE LIKE COUNTER, THAT DIDN'T WORK.

I'VE SPOKEN WITH THEIR RESEARCH STAFF THERE, I'VE SPOKEN WITH LEADERSHIP THERE, I DO BELIEVE THAT IF THEY COULD MAKE IT HEALTHIER AND NOT LOSE ANY USERS, THEY WOULD DO IT.

BUT META IN PARTICULAR HAS SHOWN IT HAS ALWAYS PRIORITIZED GROWTH OVER EVERYTHING ELSE.

THERE HAVE BEEN WHISTLE-BLOWERS TALKING ABOUT IT.

THEY DON'T DO THINGS THAT ARE EFFECTIVE, BECAUSE THEY WOULD KICK OFF UNDERAGE USERS.

THEY KNOW HOW OLD EVERYBODY IS.

WHEN 11, 12-YEAR-OLDS HAVE AN INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT, THEY SHOULD BE KICKED OFF.

THEY WON'T DO THAT.

BECAUSE THEY'LL LOSE MOST OF THEIR USERS.

SO, THEY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE.

THERE ARE BEEN MANY REPORTS, AND THEY DON'T ACT.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BECAUSE CONGRESS GAVE THEM IMMUNITY FROM LAWSUITS.

WE HAVE THIS THING, THIS ENVIRONMENT THAT IS INCREDIBLY TOXIC FOR OUR KIDS' DEVELOPMENT, AND WE CAN'T SUE THEM.

>> THEY'RE AT A SENATE HEARING, CEO OF META, MARK ZUCKERBERG, SAID, QUOTE, THE EXISTING BODY OF SCIENTIFIC WORK HAS NOT SHOWN A CAUSAL LINK BETWEEN USING SOCIAL MEDIA AND YOUNG PEOPLE HAVING WORSE MENTAL HEALTH.

>> UH-HUH.

>> IS HE MISINFORMED BY HIS LAWYERS?

>> NO, HE'S PROPERLY INFORMED BY HIS LAWYERS THAT HE CAN POINT TO STUDIES THAT SUPPORT THAT CONCLUSION.

HE CAN POINT TO SOME -- A FEW META ANALYSIS THAT SUPPORT THAT, A STUDY BY THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCE THAT CAME TO THAT CONCLUSION.

BUT THERE IS SO MUCH EVIDENCE OF THE OTHER SIDE.

THEY'RE CHERRY-PICKING.

IN THAT VERY REPORT, PEOPLE SHOULD READ CHAPTER FOUR, IT'S AN AMAZING CATALOG OF -- OF THE RESEARCH THAT SHOWS CAUSALITY.

SO, IT'S A BIZARRE REPORT, IN WHICH THE REPORT ITSELF DOCUMENTS DOZENS AND DOZENS OF AVENUES OF HARM AND DOZENS OF EXPERIMENTS, BUT YET, FOR SOME REASON, THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN, THEY SAID, WELL, WE CAN'T PROVE THAT IT'S CAUSAL.

IF YOU GO TO MY SUBSTACK, I'VE GONE THROUGH ALL OF THE STUDIES, WHAT WE -- WE ITEMIZED AND SHOW HOW THE CORRELATIONAL STUDIES COME OUT, HOW THE EXPERIMENTAL STUDIES COME OUT.

THERE IS A TON OF EVIDENCE, THE PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE SHOWS IT'S NOT JUST A CORRELATION, IT'S A CAUSE.

ZUCKERBERG WAS POINTING TO THE FEW STUDIES HE COULD, BUT IN THE LONG RUN, I BELIEVE THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE THAT CASE, BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE KEEPS MOUNTING, AND BY NOW, EVERYBODY SEES IT.

THE TEACHERS, THE PARENTS, ALL THOSE PARENTS WE SAW AT THAT SENATE HEARING, LIKE, WERE THEY WRONG THAT THEIR KID, YOU KNOW, THAT THEIR KID IS DEAD BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WERE THEY ALL WRONG ABOUT THAT?

SO, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, IT JUST DEIES BELIEF THAT SOCIAL MEDIA ISN'T CONTRIBUTING TO THIS MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT LEGISLATION LIKE WHAT RON DeSANTIS IS PROPOSING IN FLORIDA.

>> Reporter: OR OTHER STATES ARE THINKING ABOUT DOING, TO TRY TO DELAY, OR BAN THE USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA BY A CERTAIN AGE, WILL WORK?

>> I THINK THE DeSANTIS BILL IS GREAT.

I THINK THE FLORIDA BILL IS GREAT.

WE HAVE TO DELAY THE AGE AT WHICH THEY GET INTO SOCIAL MEDIA.

I THINK 16 IS THE RIGHT AGE.

FOR HEALTH REASONS, IT SHOULD BE 18, BUT REALISTICALLY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET 18.

16, I THINK, IS A REASONABLE COMPROMISE AT WHICH WE CAN BEGIN TREATING KIDS LIKE ADULTS ON THE INTERNET.

RIGHT NOW, CURRENT LAW SAYS 13.

AT 13, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT TO YOUR KIDS.

THEY CAN TREAT THEM LIKE ADULTS.

THAT'S CURRENT LAW.

AND THERE'S ZERO ENFORCEMENT.

IF THEY DON'T KNOW YOUR KID IS 10, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO YOUR KID.

SO, THE CURRENT LAW IS HORRIBLE, IT'S NOT ENFORCED, THE AGE IS TOO LOW, IT'S 13, WE NEED TO RAISE THAT TO 16 AND ENFORCE IT.

AND THAT'S WHAT IF FLORIDA BILL IS GOING TO DO.

THEY HAVE A LITTLE CARVE OUT SO THAT IF PARENTS REALLY WANT THEIR KID TO BE ON AT 14 AND 15, THEY CAN SIGN A PERMISSION.

THAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE TECH COMPANIES IMPLEMENT THAT, BUT I'M A BIG FAN OF THE FLORIDA BILL.

I HOPE ALL 50 STATES DO IT, BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE SOCIAL MEDIA SAFE FOR MIDDLE SCHOOL CHILDREN.

>> AUTHOR AND PROFESSOR JONATHAN HAIDT, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, HARI.

>>> FINALLY, TOKYO'S CHERRY BLOSSOM SEASON HAS OFFICIALLY BEGUN.

JAPAN'S METEOROLOGICAL AGENCY SPOTTED FIVE BLOOMING FLOWERS ON THE CITY'S OFFICIAL SAMPLE TREE, WHICH DETERMINES THE START OF THE SEASON.

A COLD SNAP DELAYED THE BLOOM FIVE DAYS LATER THAN USUAL.

>>> MEANWHILE, CALIFORNIA IS ON TRACK FOR A SPECTACULAR SUPER BLOOM.

AFTER A WET WINTER, THE FLOR PHENOMENAL IS EXPECTED TO OUTSHINE LAST YEAR'S UNPRECEDENTED BLOOM.

THE WILD FLOWERS DRAW THOUSANDS OF TOURISTS AND ADD A SPLASH OF COLOR TO THE ROLLING DESERT HILLS.

>>> AND NOW, A QUICK LOOK AHEAD TO TOMORROW'S PROGRAM, WHEN CHRISTIANE WILL BE INTERVIEWING THE UNITED NATIONS RELIEF COORDINATOR MARTIN GRIFFITHS.

IT WILL BE HIS FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE HE REVEALED THAT HE'S STEPPING DOWN FROM THE POST DUE TO HIS STRUGGLE WITH LONG COVID.

THEY'LL DISCUSS ANY HOPES HE HAS FOR THE FUTURE IN SUCH DARK TIMES.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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