Welcome back.

On the Rundown this wee in this Special Correspondents edition, the governor huddles with the president once more in the Oval Office.

And the president promises to deliver on two projects in Michigan.

John James would like the governor's job around the OTR table.

Kyle Melinn, Beth LeBlanc, Jordan Hermani and Chad Livengood.

Sit in with us as we get the inside out.

Off the record production of Off the Record is made possible in par by bellwether public relations, a full servic strategic communications agency partnering with clients through public relations, digital marketing and issue advocacy.

Learn more at bellwetherpr.com And now this edition of Off the Record with Tim Skubick.

Here we go.

Welcome to Studio C and welcome to Off the Record Busy news week in Washington, D.C.

The governor the second trip to the Oval Office in less than a month.

That's a new land record, isn't it?

It seems to be.

Seems to be.

Come on.

We're keeping track.

We haven't seen tha in quite a while.

In this town.

Yeah.

What did you make of it?

I don't think I've seen Governor Whitmer in a situation where she's trying to kind of blend into the background.

Into the wood work.

Yeah, So that was that that photo that' been circulating online of her looking like she'd rather be anywhere else than in the Oval Office.

I think that was was pretty telling.

And it it's going to be talked about for a while here.

Well, let's talk about it after we see what happened in D.C., to be sure.

Michigan governors in the past have conferred with the president in the Oval Office.

However, never before have the viewers at home had a chance to actually hear an exchange.

But Governor Gretchen Whitmer and House Republican Speaker Matt Hall were in the Oval talking with the president about keeping that ferocious Asian carp out of Lake Michiga and bringing more fighter jets to Selfridge Air Base in McComb County.

The president, who once had a public dispute with the governor over COVID, put all of that aside wit something nice to see about her.

We're honored to have Gretchen Whitmer from Michigan, great state of Michigan.

And she's been she's really done an excellent job.

Republicans Speaker Hall thanked the president for help on the problem and making a commitment to beef up Selfridge Field.

We couldn't get Joe Biden to do anything about either one of these issues, particularly Selfridge Air Force Base.

We'll all stand there together and cut a ribbon.

Okay, Gretchen, It's good.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Meanwhile, the governor spoke to the president about the impact of the carp in Lake Michigan.

It's why we're working so hard to make sure that, you know, we work with the Army Corps and erect a barrier so that the Asian carp can't get into Lake Michigan.

It'll devastate the ecosystem, the economy, tourism.

And it's 20% of the world's freshwater is in the Great Lakes, Mr. President, which is this was Governor Whitmer, second visit to the Oval Office in less than a month.

Back home this day, she reflects that the president's tariffs, however, on foreign cars i parts is not such a good deal.

From what I'm most concerned about is the average individual who's lost so much money who's at ris of losing their job because of, you know, business decisions to cut their workforce so that they can survive.

It's individuals who are going to get left behind.

Alright so Kyle, what did you make of this?

Well, you know, when you play with fire, sometimes you get singed a little bit as she was going to D.C. to try and draw attention to, well, herself, but also the tariff issue.

And so she got in front of som business leaders, made a speech about how we got to return to manufacturing to build planes, ships, chips and airplanes.

And so she gave the speech and she said, we got to scale back on the tariffs.

The tariffs are too tough.

You know the tariffs are a blunt object and they shouldn't just be used to hammer away at people.

And then she also ha this interview or this meeting with the president where she thought she was just going to be one on one with the president, get some face time, talk about tariffs, talk about Selfridge, talk about northern Michigan and the ice storm.

And then I guess he was running late or something.

And they told him Hey, just come on in right now.

And so lo and behold, you have this press conferenc that you had in the setup piece.

And she was like, you know, And so she she was completely caught off guard trying to make the best of the situation.

But while he was there, he was signing executive order that she was not in support of.

He signed some document going after some guy who called out Trump for saying 2020 election was a fraud.

And she's she's like, I don't have anything to do with this.

I don't know what to do with this.

So it did create kind o an uncomfortable situation for.

But I mean, you got to give her credit for wanting to be in D.C. and trying to get face time with the president.

But, you know, she's not in control that schedule.

And and when you're no in control of your own schedule, it could create a hairy situation.

And I think especially for Governor Whitmer, if you think about a lot of her national exposure over the years has been from behind her own lectern, at her own press conferences o in very controlled situations.

This was not.

And so I think it was it was an interesting foray into the national scene in a very uncontrolled situation.

I think this is going to be a really interesting either pivot point in Whitmer's time with dealing with Trump.

She obviously has to do as governor of Michigan, we are uniquely impacted.

We are potentially gonna be the epicenter of these tariff if they ever go back into effect after that 90 day pause.

You know, we we have to be able to maintain some level of diplomacy between the White House and Michigan.

But obviously she want to really control that message.

She wants to show herself as this like bipartisan, able She wants to show herself as this like bipartisan, able to work across the aisle, get things done.

I mean, also looks nice if you're considering running for president, potentially running for president.

You know, you know, there' still a lot of time between now and the next election.

But, you know, I think she just blew me off.

But, you know, I think she just blew me off.

All right.

But all I'm saying is, is that it's really difficult to bot have your cake and eat it, too.

You can't come acros as somebody who's trying to be this bipartisan reach across the aisle, but then also expect to continue to curry favor.

A lot of Democrats gave her a lot of flack when she when that that photo was released.

She looked very taken aback, somewhat demure.

It's not quite the Governo Whitmer, we're used to seeing.

You saw a lot of Democrats, including Attorney General Nessel pop off on social media, saying, you know, things to the effect of like, this is how we don't we can't legitimize authoritarians or things of that nature.

So a few weeks, a few months ago, our friend Zach Gorchow of Gongwer, he did a weekend column, he did 15 greatest photos of Michigan politics, indelible images.

And it's this image of Governor Whitmer, you know, up against the door looking like a prisoner of war in the Oval Office doesn't make the top five.

I mean, you can you just throw out the picture of Engler and his triplets?

I mean, this was a momen that we are going to be talking about, thinking about looking at.

But I don't think the history on this is quite shut.

I mean, some people are saying, look, you know, Governor Whitmer can't run for president Now.

She she's totally lost herself in a primary with Democrats.

But we don't know the result of this.

If she gets a new fighte mission at Selfridge, if she get Trump is to to open up the funding to restart the construction of the of the barrier in Chicago.

So, you know, this was like an in-your-face moment to Pritzker and who's a potential rival in 2028.

And so if she gets some of those things, that's going to be a big victory Well that's the point of this whole meeting.

She came away with If I heard the president correctly, he basically said, we're going to do a ribbon cutting at Selfridge Air Force Base.

Stay tuned.

We'r going to put the whole thing up and take care of the carp.

What more could she ask for?

You know what?

I'd stand at the back of the room, too, and take whatever he gave.

Yeah, or.

And what if she.

What if he finally signs, say, some emergency money for northern Michigan?

That was another thing that she asked for.

I mean, that's money that could be coming.

She could declare that was a success, too.

Hey, I went to enemy territory and I was able to come out with something.

I saw the NBC.

NBC had this headline said disaster that they thought that this was a PR disaster for Governor Whitmer and egg on her face to be caught in a situation where she had she really didn't have control over it.

But if you're not in the room I mean, if you're not if you're if you're not at the table, you're on the table.

Well, no, if you're not a the table, you're on the menu.

You can do that one, too.

Well, that's no that's not an original thought.

All right.

I thought that was a pretty good get for her.

You know, I think to a lot o people have been remarking that that trip was in part to meet with Trump and then also to raise her national profile, which obviously she scheduled a speech there.

But I think it's also of note that she delayed that right in order to to go last week up north to to look at the damage from the ice storm.

And so I think, you know, I think she's trying to send a message that she's putting her stat first in that her visit to D.C.

The goal of those are to put the state first.

Now, that speech in D.C., that that felt more like a putting a feeler out there for for a presidential run.

But I was it was really interesting when when Hall was sitting in that speaker Hall was talking about, you know, telling him like, we couldn't get this, we couldn't get anything done on Selfridge under Biden.

And he kind of eventually piped in.

He's like, Well, in all fairness, the governor called me so did John James, but the governor called me.

And so that was really quite telling moment.

We know John James is reall close with with President Trump.

But the other thin that we're not out of the woods with, we have this 90 day pause in the tariff doesn't pause the auto tariffs.

And she did not get that.

Well, she did not get that.

And she came to DC, made that in her speech and and said, let's let's have an exemption of autos and energy which are two huge sinking bombs for Michigan between energy that comes through oil pipelines, that goes to two refineries in Detroit and Toledo.

That is basically all the gasoline in Chicago.

All the gasoline in Michigan is pretty much coming fro a crude oil source from Alberta.

And so if there is some kind of a prolonged trade war with Canada and Canada wants to retaliate or Trump wants to put a tariff on Canadian oi if it claims you don't need it, we do need it in Michigan.

And Governor Whitmer understands that and understand this could be an energy crisis in Michigan, real fast.

Let's do a deeper dive into this criticism that she's getting for for basically trying to play ball with with the president.

She said, look, I'm as angry as everybody else on a lot of stuff that's coming out of here.

Her speech was did not you know, did not she didn't take out Mr. Trump by name, but she took on her policies.

She's tried to thread this needle.

How was she doing at It?

I think she's doing all right.

I mean other than Dana Nessel.

I mean, she's not I mean, she's not going to she is she is showing diplomacy.

I think that's what she's trying to do.

I think she's trying to set a groundwork of her being an effective leader.

Now that is going to be perceived among some Democrats as being wishy washy.

That's going to be portrayed by some Republican as being a poser and just being someone who is looking ahea and wants to just be governor.

But she's got to be thinking about how she's going to be remembered in five years and ten years.

And even if she doesn't run for president, what kind of legacy did I leave?

Did I have successes as governor?

And so in order to have successes, she's got to be thinking about things like Mundy Township.

You know, the president says that he doesn't want to do a big microchip factory.

He wants to bury the chips act.

But what if she can do that?

What if she's able to bring that in and the fact she's got to play footsie with Trump and swallow hard and be part of these, like, press conferences?

She doesn't want to be that kind of she can do that.

If she can make her legacy great, then it is worth it.

The executive office reaction to him doing other stuff while she was there.

Was anybody in the real world going to blame the governor because he did something that she didn't agree with?

Do you know what I'm asking?

People were suggestin that she should have walked out, that she was in the roo when he was going on basically an enemies list tirade for a little bit.

He was signing executive orders, you know, with a whole I mean, one of the was actually for shipbuilding.

I mean, the subject was she had talked about a block away in the morning, but then he was signing, you know, an executive order trying to, you know, increase the pressure of shower heads.

And so, I mean, there wa a whole host of things going on.

But yeah, he he started he went down and, you know, the 202 conspiracy theory for a while, and then he returned, you know, into talking to Matt and Gretchen.

I just I go back to the Democrats that keep going after Whitmer for this thing again, like the whole normalizing off area excuse me, authoritarianism.

This again, governor of Michigan, you're going to have to take your lumps.

We are in a state.

We're in a position where you can't afford to sit out.

The whole you're there on the menu or you're at the table.

I mean, it's true.

Politics is a i is an unfortunately dirty game.

There's some thing that you're going to have to do.

Some people you're going to have to meet with.

And it's not going to be to the benefit of everybody.

It's there's no perfect candidate.

There' nobody who's going to have 100%, you know, great photo optics all of the time.

But that's the reality o getting things done in politics.

And it's really easy, and I' sorry to say, but especially for there was a number of House Democrats that I saw that were really lambasting her for this.

And, you know, it's it's easy to say when you were a cohort of Democrats that at the end of the year to sort of kind of, you know, gave up this doin nothing is not doing something to that point.

House Democrats right now are kind of on the menu in the state capitol.

They're not they're not in charge.

They're on the sidelines.

And so Whitmer is dealing with with the person who is in charge, and that is Matt Hall.

And so she's going into the Oval Office with Matt Hall.

That's what was necessary, because she needs because she wants to do big deals and she doesn't want to be having a, you know, a government shutdown on October 1st.

I also think, like there's no denying that that her behavior over the past few weeks in trying to find common ground with Trump, it puts her out there, right.

Like it is different than tha the approach that many Democrats are taking toward the Trump administration.

And I think it's too soon to say whether that will pay off at the end of the day for the state.

I think we're going to have to see what comes of this.

Is Michigan able to get chips, money?

Is Michigan able to get federal funding for the ice storm up north?

I think it's those chip are still falling at this point.

If if the governor didn't need the president, she could be just like Dana Nessel and firing bombs.

We've seen it before.

She can throw bombs just like the rest of them.

The fact is, is we need them.

So if she had walked out of that news conference, the impact would have been what?

I think it would have really damaged her ability to ever be in there again.

And then you could kiss Mundy Township goodbye right away.

I think right now, right off the bat.

Absolutely.

That and then on top of that, I mean, considering how much she's been lauding for it, Matt Hall his roads plan, that he seems to be the only person that's kind of moving and shaking in the legislature at this moment, You know, what would that have done with her relationship with him?

He was right there as well.

That would have put him in a situation where he could have turned around and said, see, Mr. President, look what I'm dealing with.

And that would have been equally as inopportune, How about his line to the both of them.

that you're cooperating, you know, and the true Gretchen Whitmer comes out with her laugh.

Well, 70% of the time, you know, in government work, that's not bad, right?

Yeah, no, that was a really interesting telling moment.

And also pretty authentic.

Gretchen Whitmer.

To the to the to the Nth degree.

All right.

John James apparently wants the governor's job.

Yeah.

He put out a social media post.

Surprised?

Surprised in what?

That is doing Governor, are not Senate.

Oh, I think we heard that that was the direction he was going.

It's I thought th rollout was was a little muted.

He put out something on social media.

I don't know if he did any interviews or anything.

Maybe he's just letting it b known he didn't do any, did he?

I think he's just letting it be known that the big guy is in now.

And I've had I've had Trump before.

So anybody else who is like kind of thinking about it, right.

I'm here.

So you could you can all go away because I'm present.

This was a strange rollout where it's.

Strange!

I mean, he just literally just pulled the parachute and, you know, he's now he's running for governor and and but I don't know, by the way, I Trump was with me before.

The question is whether Trump really wants him to run for governor.

And there's there's there's probably some internal politics there.

Some Trump's advisers worked for Tudor Dixon.

Tudor Dixon clearly wants to run for governor or somethin again wants to be in the game.

And then, of course, those other people are running for governor.

And we still don't know what Mike Cox is going to do that Will Mike's is retired general.

Mike is running, take it to the bank.

I mean, well, we're going to have a very large field of five, six people and someone who gets 28% in a primary is going to win, win, win the nomination.

I'm just thinking of the fact, you know, we joke about, oh, the big guys in the race.

I mean, he's never won a statewide election.

He's never he's not like the on he was running for, for Senate for Peters.

1.7% loss.

He did come close.

But I mean, I don't think that that' technically shutters the field.

And that again you know we talk about Mike Cox he was he won for attorney general but lost in the race Snyder for governor and you kno so we're looking at a bunch of and then if Tudor Dixon is in on this, you know we're looking at a bunch of Republican candidates that have never won a statewide race.

He came close with with Peters with Donald Trump on the ballot.

Yeah.

Then he darn near lost a congressional race with no money being spent on Carl Marlinga in 2022.

And then he did.

He won pretty handil with Donald Trump on the ballot.

Donald Trump's not gonna be on the ballot next year.

And so how what is th what is the pathway to victory for John James without Trump?

On this announcement thing.

Let me tak you back to what it used to be.

Candidates that ran for governor would get on an airplane at Capital City Airport and they would fly around the state and hit every major TV market in the state in one day or two days, making an announcement, making themselves available.

Hillary Clinton messed this whole thing up for everybody.

She' the one that started this stuff.

Okay.

The announcement and the beautiful thin about announcing on the Internet and on Facebook or whatever is that reporter can't cross-examine that video.

You know, and that's one of the major reasons they do it.

Am I right?

No, you're exactly right.

The other thing, though, too, is that just putting it on Facebook, you don't really get to feel the fire that John James ma have for running for governor.

You know, when when you had Mallory McMorrow in that chair last week, you could tell that she really wants to be the US senator.

She did interviews with everybody.

She put out a book and now you got John James who just kind of rolls out something on social media.

I mean, do we really know how badly he wants this?

I mean, we could talk about ho he's done in past performances.

I would say his best performance was when he ran against Debbie Stabenow.

He really wanted to be U.S. senator that yea and he ran a really good race.

And ever since then, I think he's been running on fumes.

I don't know if he really wants this or if this is something tha advisers and people around him are saying, hey, you should do this because you're going to win.

Well I talked to Stu Sandler who's go to be one of his handlers in this race.

And and I said, look, let's get him for off the record this week.

Well, they're doing markup in Washington.

But he said, I'm going to tell the press team that will get him on.

And I said, okay, I'm going to hold you to that.

The point is, is it before th election or after the election?

Okay.

It's just I'm sorry.

I think the candidates running for statewide office at some point need to get away from this doing stuff on social media and talk to us.

What's wrong with that?

That's why I called it the parachute rip cord here because other candidates running for Governor, Duggan when when Mike Duggan declared to be an independent, he did an interview with Nolan Finley.

When Eric Nesbitt came out in an interview with Kaitly Buss, when Jocelyn Benson came came out, she did an interview with Craig Mauger.

I mean, at least did an interview with one select journalist.

That's a tip that's at least the bare minimum.

But, but, but he just, you know he said, pull the ripcord and, you know, put a tweet up.

Yeah, it it felt definitely it felt rushed right.

Like like maybe he was staking a claim because he knew somebody else was about to announce or something like that.

And and I think he he kind of what Kyle was saying, like, I think he put it out ther to kind of say, hey, I'm here.

I'm staking a claim on thi nomination for the Republicans.

Let's see who shows up as well.

If you're Eric Nesbitt and you heard this news, what did you say to yourself?

Well, I think he kne it was coming, but I think he's he's he's ready to go and say.

No, no, no.

What did he think?

Oh, outsid of uttering a four letter word, that's not necessarily what I was going for.

But if that was your answer, what was he thinking?

Oh, is this is the fix in?

Who's the front runner in the race?

Right, James?

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

And there's the fix in now on me.

Basically, I meant if I'm Nesbitt.

That's what it feels like.

Yeah, more or less.

I mean, you have a guy coming in with a lot more name recognition.

I mean, maybe not much, but more name recognition, more money.

How much damage does it do to his campaign that he ran and lost in the U.S. Senate races?

I don't think it I don't know that it does damage.

I mean I think to the general public, they probably don't even know, you know, and I feel like if anything, it just gave them greater name recognition being in those two races, because maybe people will remember, oh, I kind of remember that guy's name, but not really know that he lost two consecutive Senate races.

The Democrat will remind the voters of that, that this guy is a loser.

Okay, That's that's what the commercial will say.

But the Democrat are going to also be reminding how aligned he is with Trump.

And if your 401K continue to sink in the next six months, we'll see how well, John James, his campaign takes flight.

Yeah, if I'm if I'm James I'm white knuckling it through the next couple months just hoping that by the, what were you going to say and there's no I'm sorry there's there's not a member of Congress who actually understands the tariff situation better than John James.

The man's family is in the export busines of of power trains and engines.

They literally understand how this works.

They do this for a living.

And so he's going to have to be the guy who has to go out and defend the impact to to the auto industry.

Does he throw the president under the bus?

Will you hav your guess is as good as mine.

I mean, the state went for Trump in this last election.

And we've heard tim and time again, you know, well, this is the you know, this is who we voted for.

So this is who, you know, we have to respect, like things of that nature.

You heard it when Biden was first electe where it was like, okay, well, now we're kind of leaning more Democratic.

Well, you know, Michigan elected Trump to the presidency, so how hard he poo-poos Trump could come back to bite him with Republicans.

You know, I'm going to go back to the Nesbitt question.

I think that there is a fundraising battle now that's going to have to that's going to take shape.

And the people who have traditionally funded John James are people who wanted him to b a Republican voice in Congress, whether it was the House or the Senate.

And those are different peopl than who would contribute to a Republican primary for governor, which is a statewide race.

And Eric Nesbitt actually has connections with those people because as the leader of the Senate Republicans, he had to go to those people to raise money to try and keep a Republican majority in the Senate.

John James has no had to reach those same people.

So I'm that's what I'm wondering about is the curiosity here of who like the DeVos family who are they going to go with?

Are they going to go with somebody like Aric Nesbitt, who has gone to the wall for them every single tim on every single statewide issue?

Or John James who has got a national presence and is more familiar with those national issues.

But we really don't know what his statewide bonafides are.

So that for for Nesbitt I think he's blocking and tackling and hitting those fundraisers so that he beats John James kind of a ground level.

But does he scare anybody out of this race?

Did Kevin Rinke wake up the day after and say, Well, I guess I' not going to run for governor?

I don't think that there are as certain candidates who they'll run regardless.

I think personally, I think that their own self image won't let them not.

So I'm not necessarily saying that that's Kevin Rinke but I think that you know, the people this was going to scare out if we thought it was going to be some of the bigger names.

I don't think that.

If you concluded that you want to be governor and you're the person for the job nobody's going to scare you out because you live on that and thrive on that thing That lives with inside of you, right?

Yeah, it is.

It is a characteristic specific to politicians, right.

That they have a a self-confidence that I struggle to comprehend sometimes.

And I think that they.

Nicely put.

So anybody who was thinking about running for this race.

I don't know that that John James necessarily scares them out of it.

You agree?

Yes.

I think people like Perry Johnson or Kevin Rinke, if they wanted to get in, they're going to get in and say, hey, let's give it a try and Mike Cox will get in.

Mike Cox yeah.

You won't scare Mike Cox out of this race.

Well, no, no.

He's got his own millions he can put in.

Why not?

Here we go.

To Kyle's point, th billionaire's primary is under way now.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Good show, guys.

That picture you think is going to show up on the list ,Eh?

Absolutely.

Right.

Thanks for watching.

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