>> BRAUDE: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," COMING TO YOU FROM THE BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY: WHAT HAPPENS TO COMMUNITIES WHEN THERE'S NO LOCAL NEWS OUTLET IN TOWN?

AND HOW CAN WE END THE SPREAD OF SUCH NEWS DESERTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

I'M JOINED BY PULITZER PRIZE-WINNER, FORMER EDITOR OF THE "CHICAGO TRIBUNE," AND CURATOR FOR HARVARD'S NEIMEN CENTER FOR JOURNALISM, ANN MARIE LIPINSKI; AND CHARLIE SENNOTT, THE FOUNDER OF THE GROUNDTRUTH PROJECT AND ONE SOLUTION, REPORT FOR AMERICA.

THEN LATER, I'LL TALK TO THE ACTORS PLAYING TOM ROBINSON AND ATTICUS FINCH IN AARON SORKIN'S "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD" HERE IN BOSTON, YAEGLE T. WELCH AND RICHARD THOMAS -- YES, THAT RICHARD THOMAS.

♪♪ >> BRAUDE: FIRST UP, LOCAL NEWS IN MANY PLACES IS ON THE CRITICAL LIST, BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO ATTACH AN I.V.

IT'S AN ISSUE I CARE ABOUT A LOT, IN PART BECAUSE I SPEND THREE HOURS ON RADIO AND 30 MINUTES ON TV MOST DAYS TALKING ABOUT THE THINGS I READ IN THE NEWS.

BUT IT'S AN ISSUE YOU SHOULD CARE A LOT ABOUT, TOO, BECAUSE WHEN EVEN ONE JOURNALISM JOB IS LOST -- MUCH LESS A WHOLE PAPER -- THAT IS ONE LESS PERSON DIGGING FOR THE TRUTH AND HOLDING PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND INSTITUTIONS ACCOUNTABLE.

SINCE 2004, THE U.S. HAS SEEN A 60% DECLINE IN JOURNALISTS AND LOST MORE THAN 2,000 PAPERS, ACCORDING TO THE U.N.C.

HUSSMAN SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM AND MEDIA, LEAVING HUNDREDS OF AREAS WITHOUT ACCESS TO RELIABLE, CREDIBLE LOCAL NEWS COVERAGE.

AND WHILE WE'VE FARED A BIT BETTER HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, WE HAVE LOST CLOSE TO 30% OF LOCAL PAPERS AROUND THE STATE IN THAT TIME.

NEXT MONTH, GANNETT IS EITHER CUTTING BACK OR MERGING MORE THAN 20 OTHER MASSACHUSETTS PUBLICATIONS, INCLUDING NEWTON, SOMERVILLE, BILLERICA, NORWOOD, AND WALTHAM.

THANKFULLY, THERE ARE STILL SOME EFFORTS TO FILL THE VOID, LIKE THE REPORT FOR AMERICA INITIATIVE, WHICH WAS LAUNCHED BACK IN 2017, AND PUTS JOURNALISTS IN NEWSROOMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH THE MISSION OF COVERING UNDER-SERVED ISSUES AND COMMUNITIES.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE BEHIND IT IS CHARLIE SENNOTT, WHO'S ALSO THE FOUNDER OF THE GROUNDTRUTH PROJECT HERE AT GBH, AND JOINS ME NOW.

I'M ALSO JOINED BY PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING REPORTER AND FORMER EDITOR OF THE "CHICAGO TRIBUNE," ANN MARIE LIPINSKI, WHO'S NOW THE CURATOR FOR HARVARD'S NIEMAN FOUNDATION FOR JOURNALISM.

>> Braude: ANNE-MARIE, AND CHARLIE, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: ANNE-MARIE, GANNETT SAYS THEY'RE JUST SHUTTING DOWN PRINT.

EVERYTHING WILL BE THERE ON LINE.

ARE YOU BUYING WHAT THEY'RE SELLING?

>> WELL, UM, IT IS TRUE THAT THEY'RE ELIMINATING SOME PRINT, AND YOU CAN FIND OTHER THINGS ONLINE.

IT IS ALSO TRUE THEY'RE MERGING NEWSPAPERS.

I WOULD SAY THE THIRD PIECE THAT IS THE MOST CONCERNING, THAT IF YOU LIVE IN ONE OF THESE COMMUNITIES YOU SHOULD BE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT, IS THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF THEIR LOCAL REPORTERS INTO REGIONAL REPORTERS.

SO PEOPLE WHO HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN DEDICATED TO A BEAT, MAYBE COVERING SCHOOLS OR CITY HALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WILL NOW BE DOING THIS FOR A BROADER SET OF COMMUNITIES.

AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO MAINTAIN THE LEVEL OF COVERAGE THEY HAD IF YOU DO THAT.

>> Braude: CHARLIE, EVEN THOUGH NEWTON, I MENTION IS OBVIOUSLY AN AFFLUENT COMMUNITY, WHEN YOU LOOK ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PLACES THAT ARE LOSING LOCAL NEWS COVERAGE ARE LOW AND MODERATE INCOME COMMUNITIES, ARE THEY NOT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WE LOST HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, AS YOU POINTED OUT, ALMOST 30% OF LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BEEN FADING OUT OVER TIME.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IT IS CLOSER TO 60%.

IT IS A COLLAPSE OF AN INDUSTRY THAT IS AKIN TO THE COLLAPSE OF THE COAL INDUSTRY.

THE NUMBERS ARE ACTUALLY HIGHER IN NEWSPAPERS.

BUT WE'RE NOT HEARING THE STORY ENOUGH.

WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO LOSE THOSE LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, AND IT IS REALLY POWERFUL.

>> Braude: WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

>> WE KNOW THREE THINGS HAPPEN: WE KNOW VOTER PARTICIPATION WILL DECLINE.

WE KNOW POLARIZATION WILL INCREASE.

AND A REALLY INTERESTING ONE IS THAT WE KNOW BANKS ARE GOING TO LOWER THE BOND RATINGS OF THOSE PLACES THAT DON'T HAVE LOCAL NEWSPAPERS BECAUSE BANKS ASK THE QUESTION: HOW CAN YOU TRUST A COMMUNITY WHERE THERE IS NO ONE WATCHING THE STORE?

THAT'S WHAT THIS COMES DOWN TO, WE DON'T HAVE LOCAL REPORTERS IN TOWNHALL ASKING THE HARD QUESTIONS.

IT'S NOT THE SAME AS BEING THERE, DIGGING IN THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

WE NEED IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEMOCRACY.

>> Braude: AN MARERAS I ANNE-MARIE, I WAS A CITY COUNCILOR FOR ONE SESSION, AND I WOULD LIKE TO THINK I DID THE HONORABLE THING, BUT I WOULD BE LYING IF I TOLD YOU THAT PART OF IT WAS BEING WATCHED.

YOU WRITE A PIECE FOR NEIMAN REPORTS, WHICH IS GREAT, CALLED "GREEN LIGHT FOR CORRUPTION."

COULD YOU FLUSH THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN MAKING A CASE THAT SOUNDS A LITTLE SELF-CENTERED.

OUR JOBS ARE BEING LOST, THERE ARE TOO MANY LAYOFFS, SALARIES ARE DOWN.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO REFRAME THIS FOR THE RECOST, YOU KNOW, ATTRIBUTED TO THE COMMUNITY NOW.

THERE IS A RESEARCHER AT THE HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL NAMED JONAH, AND HE TOOK AN INTEREST IN WHAT HAPPENS TO A COMMUNITY WHEN A NEWSPAPER CLOSES DOWN.

I WENT TO TALK TO HIM.

HE HAS LOOKED AT 33 LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND REGULATORY AGENCIES ACROSS THE U.S. AND TRIED TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A PAPER CLOSES.

AND HE WAS SURPRISED, BUT I DON'T THINK MOST JOURNALISTS WOULD BE SURPRISED, TO FIND THAT VIOLATIONS AND PERSONALITIES WENT UP ACROSS THESE 44 GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.

AND THE VIOLATION NUMBER WAS RELATIVELY SMALL, BUT THE PENALTY NUMBER WAS MUCH GREATER.

SO 15% INCREASE IN FINANCIAL PENALTIES, FOR INSTANCE, ACROSS -- OR 20% FOR SOMETHING LIKE TOXIC EMISSIONS.

HE SAW INCREASES IN TOXIC EMISSIONS, PENALTIES IN THE COST OF BORROWING IN THE COST TO SHAREHOLDERS, IN JOBS VIOLATIONS, SO, YOU KNOW, EMPLOYMENT VIOLATIONS, DISCRIMINATION, ACCOUNTING PROBLEMS, OVERBILLING, POLLUTION, AND HE SAID IT IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

HE ONLY LOOKED AT PUBLICLY-TRADED COMPANIES.

HE DIDN'T LOOK AT PRIVATE COMPANIES.

AND JIMMY SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

THE ASSUMPTION IS WHEN YOU'RE BEING WATCHED, YOU'RE MORE CAREFUL AND YOU'RE MORE CONSCIENTIOUS.

>> Braude: CAN WE SPEND A FEW MINUTES OF SOLUTIONS?

CHARLIE, DESCRIBE BRIEFLY WAS REPORT FOR AMERICA IS, AND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO?

>> WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE EMERGING JOURNALISTS AND PUT THEM IN THE FIELDS IN COMMUNITIES THAT NEED LOCAL SERVICE.

IT IS A CALL TO SERVICE.

SAYING WE WANT YOU IN THESE COMMUNITIES.

THE WAY IT WORKS IS WE PUT OUT THE CALL TO NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, AND WE ASK THEM, WHERE IS AN UNDERCOVERED PART OF YOUR COMMUNITY THAT REALLY NEEDS COVERAGE.

AND HOW CAN YOU ASSURE US IT WILL BE PUBLIC SERVICE-DRIVEN.

AND ONCE WE SELECT THE NEWSPAPERS, WE PUT OUT THE CALL TO JOURNALISTS, YOUNG JOURNALISTS, AND THE AVERAGE AGE IS 26.

AND WE WERE FLOODED WITH APPLICATIONS.

WE WERE DOING ABOUT A THOUSAND APPLICATIONS FOR EVERY 50 SLOTS.

AS OF JUNE, WE'LL BE PUTTING OUR BIGGEST COHORT OUT, 325,000 NEWS JOURNALISTS.

WE HAVE 20 HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS AT "THE BOSTON GLOBE," WCAI, THE BERKSHIRE EAGLE, AND THOSE ARE NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE HOLDING ON.

THEY ARE DOING WELL, BUT THERE ARE SO MANY THAT ARE SUFFERING.

I LIVE IN NEWTON RIGHT NOW, AND THE TAB IS CLOSING ON MAY 4th.

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THE DAY AFTER WORLD PRESS FREEDOM DAY, WE LOSE SO MUCH WHEN WE LOSE THESE NEWSPAPERS.

>> Braude: THERE ARE OTHER SOLUTIONS -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A SOLUTION -- WE INTERVIEWED PEOPLE, ANNE-MARIE, A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO FROM THE NEWBEDFORD LIGHT, WHICH IS A NON-PROFIT.

THE INDEPENDENT EXPERIENCE SOUNDED GOOD, BUT IT BASICALLY DEPENDS ON THE GOODNESS OF STRANGERS, NO?

>> YEAH.

AND I THINK BACK TO CHARLIE'S EARLIER COMMENTS, YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET GREATER PARTICIPATION IN COMMUNITIES WHERE PEOPLE ARE BETTER OFF, WHERE THEY CAN TAKE TIME TO VOLUNTEER, WHERE THEY'RE NOT BEHOLDEN TO A CLOCK AT THEIR JOB.

AND SO I THINK IT IS JUST -- WE'RE SORT OF CREATING AN ELITE FORM OF COVERAGE THAT WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE TO ALL COMMUNITIES.

>> Braude: ANNE-MARIE, I WANT TO ASK YOU ONE MORE, IF I CAN.

LOCAL JOURNALISM SUSTAINABLE ACT, LISA -- I DON'T GET WHERE THE-INCH THE I COMES FROM.

THEY HIRE OR RETAIN LOCAL JOURNALISTS TO BUSINESSES THAT ADVERTISE TO REAL PEOPLE WHO DO SUBSCRIPTIONS.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE GOING ANYWHERE, BUT AS A MODEL, IS IT SOMETHING YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH, ANNE-MARIE?

>> IT IS SUCH A GREAT QUESTION, GENTLEWOMAN.

MY THINKING ABOUT THIS HAS EVOLVED.

AND ONCE YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE THE HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL RESEARCH AND SEE THAT YOU'RE BEING TAXED ANYWAY, AFFECTIVELY, RIGHT?

A NEWSPAPER GOES OUT OF BUSINESS, CORRUPTION GOES UP, FINES GO UP, THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO, YOU KNOW, MONITOR THESE THINGS TO A GREATER DEGREE.

THERE IS A COST TO SOCIETY THAT IS NOW BEING DOCUMENTED.

AND SO YOU CAN PAY NOW, YOU CAN PAY LATER.

I PREFER TO -- AND THIS IS WHERE MY THINKING HAS REALLY CHANGED -- TO SUPPORT THESE EFFORTS THAT ARE FUNDAMENTAL TO A HEALTHY DEMOCRACY.

THERE IS JUST NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

>> JIM, QUICK POINT IF I COULD.

>> Braude: YEAH.

>> WHAT IS GOING ON IS NEWSPAPERS ARE REALIZING, AND LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, A LOT OF THEM ARE DIGITAL START-UPS, LIKE YOU POINTED OUT IN NEW BEDFORD.

THE NON-PROFIT MODEL IS GOING TO PLAY A MUCH BIGGER ROLE IN JOURNALISM.

I'M IN GBH RIGHT NOW, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE GREAT MODELS OF NON-PROFIT JOURNALISM.

I WOULD PUSH BACK ON THE IDEA IT ONLY SERVES THE ELITE.

WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT LOCAL FOUNDATIONS IN SOME VERY DISTRESSED AREAS, LIKE RURAL OHIO, THE LOCAL FOUNDATIONS ARE STEPPING UP.

WE'RE DOING WHAT ARE CALLED COMMUNITY NEWS FUNDS.

AND THAT'S TO PULL THE COMMUNITIES TOGETHER BECAUSE COMMUNITIES ARE RECOGNIZING THEIR LOCAL GOVERNMENT, THE WAY THEY WORK TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY, THE WAY THEY HOLD TOGETHER, IS BOUND INTO HAVING LOCAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS THAT GIVE THEM SHARED SETS OF FACTS.

SO WE THINK THE NON-PROFIT SECTOR IS GOING TO REALLY GROW.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS JUST THE ELITE OR A HANDOUT.

I THINK IT IS A WAY TO SERVE COMMUNITIES, AND THEY'RE SEEING THEY NEED IT, AND I THINK THEY'RE BOUNDING TOGETHER -- >> Braude: WELL, SOME PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE COVERAGE THOSE ENTITIES CAN DO FROM THOSE WHO FUND THEM.

ANNE-MARIE, CAN YOU DO A LITTLE NOTE NOTE TRA NOTRA DAMUS?

>> I THINK THINGS WILL GET WORSE BEFORE THEY GET BETTER, BUT WE'RE GROWING A SET OF MODELS FOR WHAT MIGHT WORK GOING FORWARD, AND I THINK THAT IS REALLY EXCITING.

WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO BE FAR MORE DEMANDING ABOUT THIS.

YOU WOULD NEVER TOLERATE A LACK OF, YOU KNOW, FIRE DEPARTMENT SERVICES.

>> Braude: I'M SO GLAD YOU SAID THAT.

>> OR A SCHOOL HOUSE.

WE NEED TO DEMAND THIS AS, AGAIN, AN ESSENTIAL PART OF A FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY, AND INCLUDING DEMANDING IT FROM THESE VULTURE FUNDS AND OTHERS.

>> Braude: CHARLIE, YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS.

>> I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT ANNE-MARIE JUST SAID, BUT I WOULD ADD WE HAVE TO GET BETTER AT TELLING THE STORY OURSELVES AS JOURNALISTS.

THIS REALLY MATTERS.

WE HAVE GOT TO GET OUT THERE.

AND THE MODELS FOR NON-PROFIT DIGITAL NEWS ORGANIZATIONS, I THINK THEY'LL FLOURISH.

AND WE'LL HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM THROUGH PUBLIC POLICY AND THROUGH THESE NEW NON-PROFIT MODELS SUPPORTING THEM.

>> BRAUDE: CHARLIE SENNOTT, ANN MARIE LIPINSKI, THANKS.

FOR MORE INFOR% CHARLIE'S ORGANIZATION, HEAD TO REPORTFORAMERICA.ORG THE AMERICAN CLASSIC "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD" HAS HAD A LOT OF LIVES SINCE IN 1960 DEBUT.

IT'S BEEN TRANSLATED INTO 40 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES, 45 MILLION COPIES HAVE BEEN SOLD WORLDWIDE, IT WAS MADE INTO A FILM WITH GREGORY PECK, A STAGE PRODUCTION, AND, IN THE LATEST ITERATION, AARON SORKIN PUTS A NEW TWIST ON THE PAINFULLY RELEVANT FICTIONAL STORY OF TOM ROBINSON, A BLACK MAN TRIED IN 1930S ALABAMA FOR A RAPE HE DID NOT COMMIT, AND ATTICUS FINCH, THE WHITE ATTORNEY CHARGED WITH DEFENDING HIM, AS TOLD THROUGH THE EYES OF FINCH'S YOUNG DAUGHTER, SCOUT, HER BROTHER, AND A FRIEND.

IT'S AT THE CITIZENS BANK OPERA HOUSE THROUGH THIS COMING SUNDAY.

I SAW IT LAST WEEK.

YOU SHOULD, TOO.

I'M JOINED BY EMMY AWARD-WINNER RICHARD THOMAS, WHO PLAYS ATTICUS FINCH, AND YAEGEL T. WELCH, PLAYS TOM ROBINSON.

>> Braude: GENTLEMEN, CONGRATULATIONS ON TWO TERRIFIC PERFORMANCES.

>> THANK YOU IS VERY VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Braude: RICHARD, DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME YOU READ "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD," AND WHAT YOU'RE REACTION WAS?

>> YEAH.

I READ IT IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND IN THAT TIME OF LIFE, EARLY TEEN YEARS, ADOLESCENCE, PEOPLE ARE DEVELOPING CIVIC IDENTITY AND FAIRNESS AND JUSTICE AND INJUSTICE, AND BEGIN TO GET EXERCISED ABOUT ISSUES LARGER THAN THEIR OWN PRIVATE LIVES, SO IT IS A PERFECT TIME TO READ IT.

BUT I READ IT AGAIN.

AND ANYBODY WHO LOVED THAT BOOK AS A YOUNG PERSON, READ IT AGAIN AS AN ADULT BECAUSE IT IS EVEN RICHER AND MORE COMPLEX.

>> Braude: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

YAEGEL, CAN YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME YOU READ IT?

>> YES.

I READ IT FIRST IN MIDDLE SCHOOL, LIKE RICHARD.

I THINK MY ORIGINAL REACTION IS I CONNECTED TO THE CHILDREN IN THE COMING OF AGE STORY.

NOW I CONNECT TO DIFFERENT ISSUES.

I THINK AT ONE POINT IN TIME I SAW IT AS A CAPSULE IN TIME.

AND NOW I SEE IT AS SOMETHING THAT IS PRESENTLY HAPPENING IN SOME WAYS.

I REMEMBER CONNECTING TO THE MINISTRY OF BEAU.

>> Braude: SAME REACTION.

RICHARD, THIS PRODUCTION, FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T SEEN IT, IS A DIFFERENT KETTLE OF FISH.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE SOME OF THOSE WAYS.

>> WELL, IT IS THEATER.

IT IS NOT LIKE READING A BOOK AND DEFINITELY NOT LIKE SEEING A FILM.

THE WAY AARON SORKIN HAS WRITTEN IT IN THIS BEAUTIFUL ADAPTATION, IT IS PURELY THEATRICAL.

YOU KNOW YOU'RE IN THE THEATER WATCHING, HAVING A THEATRICAL EXPERIENCE.

BEYOND THAT, I THINK HE IS WITHIN THE SPIRIT OF HARPER, ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK HE HAS BROADENED THINGS OUT.

HE CERTAINLY HAS BROUGHT INTO FOCUS, I THINK, THINGS IN THE SOURCE MATERIAL THAT SPEAK TO US DIRECTLY TODAY.

I MEAN, THIS IS A SELF-PORTRAIT.

THIS IS A SELF-PORTRAIT OF AMERICA, FOR BETTER AND FOR WORSE.

OUR FINEST ASPIRATIONS AND HOW FAR WE FALL SHORT.

>> Braude: YAEGEL, IN ADDITION TO THAT, I READ A PIECE THAT AARON SORKIN WAS INTERVIEWED IN, IN THE ATLANTIC A FEW YEARS AGO, AND HE REFERS TO THE PORTRAYAL OF THE BLACK CHARACTERS AS, QUOTE, "ATMOSPHERE, ANONYMOUS."

YOU AND JACK JACLYN WILLIAMS ARE ANYTHING BUT ANONYMOUS IN THIS VERSION.

THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE, TOO, NO?

>> YEAH.

THE BOOK AND THE MOVIE SORT OF USED THEM AS DEVICES, AND IN SOME WAYS DECORATION, AS TOOLS TO AID IN THE WHITE CHARACTER'S ROLE.

AND WE DON'T HEAR FROM THE FAMILIES OR HEAR THEIR VOICES.

IN THE PLAY, THEY GET AGENCY.

THEY GET A SENSE OF DIGNITY.

WE GET TO LEARN WHO THEY ARE.

THEY BECOME A LITTLE MORE FLEXED OUT, A LITTLE MORE $3 DIMENSIONAL.

WHICH MAKES IT ALL THE WORTHWHILE IN TERMS OF WHY WE DO IT, AND I THINK IT HELPS TO MAKE THIS PLAY RESONATE MORE WITH MINORITY COMMUNITIES BECAUSE WE KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE, AS MUCH AS WE KNOW WHO THE FINCH FAMILY IS.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF THE FINCH FAMILY, RICHARD, YOUR ATTICUS FINCH IS NO LONGER A FLAWLESS WHITE SAVIOR.

>> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AARON HAS DONE TO ENRICH THE MATERIAL, STILL, AS I SAY IN FULFILLING HARPER'S SPIRIT, IS TO MAKE ATTICUS NOT ONLY A HERO FIGURE IN THE FACT THAT HE GOES THROUGH A JOURNEY, BUT IF THE STORY IS A LOT ABOUT THE LOSS OF THE INNOCENCE OF THE CHILDREN, IT IS ALSO ABOUT ATTICUS' LOSS OF INNOCENCE.

HE IS JUST A GUY GOING THROUGH THIS JOURNEY.

AARON HAS GIVEN HIM A WONDERFUL, HUMAN JOURNEY.

SO HE NEVER STANDS ABOVE ANYBODY ELSE IN THE PLAY.

THERE IS NO -- HE IS NOT A SAINT.

HE IS CERTAINLY NOT A WHITE SAVIOR BECAUSE HE DOES A LOT OF WRONG THINGS FOR THE RIGHT REASONS.

BUT HE IS A PERSON, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE PLAY, AND THAT MAKES IT SO MUCH MORE ENRICHING TO PLAY.

>> Braude: YOU BOTH TOUCH ON THIS, BUT, RICHARD, STARTING WITH YOU, I'M SITTING THERE DURING INTERMISSION AND I'M SAYING THE BEST PART OF THIS VERSION IS HOW RELEVANT IT IS TODAY, AND THE WORST PART OF THIS VERSION IS HOW RELEVANT THIS IS TODAY.

THAT HAS GOT TO BE WITH YOU IN EVERY PERFORMANCE IN YOUR HEAD, IS IT NOT?

>> IT IS.

THE PLAY WORKS ON YOU FROM THE ATTICUS PERSPECTIVE, THE STORY ABOUT A GUY TRYING TO RAISE HIS CHILDREN, WITH CALPENIA, AND A STORY ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE.

AND BOTH OF THESE ASPECTS ARE CONSTANTLY WORKING ON ME THROUGHOUT THE PLAY, AS I'M SURE THEY WORK ON YAEGEL AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE PLAY.

KUYOU CANNOT BUT BE AFFECTED BECAUSE THIS STUFF IS HAPPENING, THIS IS OUR PRESENT MOMENT.

IT IS A BEAUTIFUL PICTURE OF HOW ASPIRATIONAL WE ARE AS A COUNTRY, BUT IT IS ALSO A DEVASTATING PICTURE OF HOW FAR WE FALL SHORT IN THOSE ASPIRATIONS.

AND CAN WE LOOK AT REALITY AND STILL MAINTAIN OUR IDEALS?

THAT'S HIS DILEMMA, CERTAINLY.

>> Braude: YAEGEL, I SAW A LITTLE VIDEO YOU DID WITH MELANIE MOORE, WHO PLAYS SCOUT, IN YOUR PRODUCTION, AND YOU SAID SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE HOPE WAS -- OR YOUR BELIEF, MAYBE, WAS THAT PEOPLE WERE GOING TO LEAVE, HAVING SEEN THIS, DIFFERENT FROM HOW THEE THEY CAME IN.

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT?

>> I DO.

ONE OF -- IF I COULD SAY, ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF COVID -- AND I'M NOT SAYING THERE IS MUCH, BUT ONE OF THE GOOD THINGS IS WE ALL GOT TO SIT AT HOME AND HAVE A MOMENT WHERE WE ALL CONNECTED.

AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS WHEN GEORGE FLOYD WAS MURDERED ON CAMERA.

AND WE ALL HAD TO WITNESS THAT TOGETHER.

AND THE WAY IN WHICH THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME BROUGHT SO MANY PEOPLE TOGETHER, ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE WAS THIS SORT OF CULTURAL UNITY AND SENSE OF EMPATHY FOR SOMETHING HAPPENING IN A COMMUNITY.

AND IT DIDN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU WERE BLACK OR WHITE.

THERE WERE WHITE PEOPLE, ASIAN PEOPLE, JEWISH PEOPLE, MUSLIM PEOPLE ALL OUT AT THOSE MARCHES PROTESTING THE INJUSTICE THAT HAPPENED.

WHAT "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD," DOES IS THIS OBVIOUSLY INNOCENT MAN IS ON TRIAL FOR SOMETHING HE POSSIBLY COULDN'T HAVE DONE.

HE IS ESSENTIALLY GOING TO BE LYNCHED IN MANY WAYS, AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.

I THINK WITNESSING THAT CREATES THIS EMPATHY THAT WE ALL HAVE TO CONNECT.

I THINK IN OUR MOST HUMAN PLACES, WE ALL CONNECT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS MAN IS INNOCENT; THIS IS WRONG.

I DO BELIEVE THAT, I BELIEVE THAT WITNESSING SOMETHING CAN HELP PEOPLE CONNECT IN THAT WAY.

>> Braude: RICHARD, FOR ALL OF US WHO SAW THE MOVIE GROWING UP, OBVIOUSLY SCOUT IS FOREVER EMBLAZONED IN OUR HEAD.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT WOMAN, MARY BENOM?

DID SHE EVER PLAY SCOUT?

>> I'LL LET YOU IN ON A LITTLE SECRET: MARY IS WITH US EVERY NIGHT AS THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF SCOUT, PLAYING THE REALLY ROUGH -- >> Braude: RACIST DOG IS WHAT SHE PLAYS.

>> WHAT AN INCREDIBLE COUNTERINTUITIVE AND BRILLIANT PIECE OF CASTING.

YAEGEL USED THE WORLD "EMPATHY," AND I THINK THAT IS THE GREAT THING ABOUT THEATER, IT IS AN EMPATHY MACHINE WHEN IT WORKS.

WHETHER IT IS COMEDY OR TRAGEDY, WHATEVER IT IS, IT IS A PICTURE OF US AS HUMANS TOGETHER, THAT WE EXPERIENCE IN COMMUNITY TOGETHER.

AND I THINK, AS AN EMPATHY MACHINE, THEATER CAN AFFECT PEOPLE AND CAN HAVE THEM COME OUT OF THE THEATER WITH A BROADER SENSE OF THEIR OWN HUMANITY.

>> Braude: RICHARD AND THOMAS, I WANT TO STEP BACK FROM THIS FOR A MINUTE.

A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, STEVIE VAN ZANDT WAS WITH ME, AND WE TALKED ABOUT TONE SPRANTONY SOPRANO, AND WEEK BEFORE THAT, KIEFER SUTHERLAND WAS HERE.

WAS THERE A POINT IN YOUR CAREER WHERE YOU THOUGHT YOU WOULD BE ANYBODY BUT HIM?

I'M SERIOUS, DID THAT WORRY YOU AS A YOUNG ACTOR?

>> NO.

>> Braude: WHY?

>> FOR ONE THING, I WAS WORKING FOR A LONG TIME WHEN I STARTED THAT SHOW.

I STARTED THAT AT 21, AND I HAD BEEN WORKING SINCE I WAS 6.

I KNEW -- HOWEVER, EVEN THOUGH IT NEVER WORRIED ME, UNDERSTOOD THAT IT WAS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF TIME TO BALANCE THE SCALES, IF I COULD, AND I HAD TO BE PATIENT WITH PEOPLE.

THAT IF I WAS READY TO MAKE THE CHANGE THE DAY AFTER I LEFT THE SERIES, THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WASN'T GOING TO BE READY TO MAKE THAT CHANGE QUITE AS QUICKLY AS I WAS.

IF YOU KEEP WORKING AT IT AND DOING AS MANY DIFFERENT THINGS AS YOU CAN, THEN YOU HAVE THE JOY OF A LONG CAREER.

I NEVER THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO SUFFER FOR THAT PART.

>> Braude: YAEGEL, I WAS COUNTING THEM UP THIS AFTERNOON, YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN 27 OR 28 CITIES IN 15 MONTHS.

IF YOU CAN RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH, IS THAT JOY OR IS IT TORTURE, HONESTLY?

>> HONESTLY, IT IS A YIN AND YANG.

THERE IS A WAY IN WHICH YOU ARE LIVING A LIFE THAT I LOVE IN NEW YORK, BUT THE OTHER PART OF IT IS I GET TO MEET PEOPLE FROM ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I GET TO DO WHAT I HAVE DREAMT ABOUT DOING, WHICH IS TAKING AN IMPORTANT PLAY ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND EDUCATE PEOPLE, AND, AGAIN, PARTICIPATE IN BUILDING THIS SENSE OF COMMUNAL EMPATHY.

I GET TO TRY NEW FOOD.

>> Braude: FOOD?

>> YEAH, THE FOOD.

I'VE HAD THE BEST SEAFOOD IN BOSTON (laughing).

I WAS AT UNION OYSTER HOUSE, THE CAPITAL GRILL, THINGS I WOULD NEVER GET TO DO IN NEW YORK CITY.

AND I'M REALLY EXCITED, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT, AND JUST FOR THE NEW EXPERIENCES THAT WE GET TO HAVE ON OUR DAY OFF.

IT IS A YIN AND YANG, BUT IT IS NOT THAT I WON'T MISS MY LIFE IN NEW YORK BECAUSE -- >> Braude: RICHARD -- I'M SORRY.

ON THE SAME THEME, RICHARD, MELANIE MOORE, IN THAT VIDEO I SAW WITH YAEGEL, SAYS THAT THERE IS A BAR -- AND I CHECKED IT OUT, SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH -- IN CLEVELAND CALLED "GOOD NIGHT, JOHNBOY."

IT IS A DIVE BAR.

DO YOU HIDE IN YOUR HOTEL ROOM OR DO YOU ACTUALLY GO WITH YOUR CASTMATES?

>> I'VE NEVER BEEN.

WHEN I WAS LAST IN CLEVELAND, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT OPENING IT.

AND NOW THERE IS ALSO ONE IN ST. ST. PETERSBURG, FLORIDA.

WHERE WE'RE NOT GOING.

I THINK IT IS LIKE A '70s DISCO VIBE THING.

AS LONG AS I DON'T HAVE TO BUY EVERYBODY IN TOWN, I'D BE HAPPY TO GO.

HOW CAN I NOT?

>> Braude: RICHARD AND YAEGEL, THANKS FOR BRINGING AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT STORY TO LIFE ON THE STAGE.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, BOTH OF YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

"TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD" IS AT THE OPERA HOUSE THROUGH SUNDAY.

FOR TICKETS AND MORE INFORMATION, HEAD TO BOSTON.BROADWAY.COM THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

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♪♪ ♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org >> IN NEWTON, MASSACHUSETTS, THERE'S A STAR MARKET THAT OVERHANGS THE MASS TURNPIKE.

AND, I WAS CURIOUS WHY THAT WAS?

>> I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III, AND THIS IS THE "CURIOSITY DESK."

WELL, WE START THINGS OFF TODAY IN A PLACE THAT I AM CONFIDENT IS FAMILIAR TO YOU ALL -- A SUPERMARKET.

THIS ONE IS A LOT LIKE ANY OTHER.

THE COFFEE'S NEAR THE TEA, THE BUTTER'S NEAR THE MILK, AND THE SHELVES ARE STOCKED WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF OPTIONS.

NOW, EVEN IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE, YOU'VE LIKELY DRIVEN UNDER THIS GUY.

AND WHILE THE BUILDING ITSELF DATES TO THE 1960S, ITS STORY BEGINS ALMOST HALF A CENTURY PRIOR.

>> THE STAR MARKET BEGAN IN WATERTOWN.

THE FIRST ONE OPENED IN 1915.

>> THAT'S CLARA SILVERSTEIN WITH "HISTORIC NEWTON."

>> THE OWNER WAS NAMED SARKIS MUGAR, AND HE WAS FROM ARMENIA.

>> SARKIS HELMED THE WATERTOWN STAR MARKET UNTIL 1922.

WHEN HE DIED FOLLOWING AN AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT, HIS SON STEVEN TOOK OVER THE STORE, AND IN 1930, OPENED A SECOND STAR MARKET RIGHT HERE IN NEWTONVILLE.

BUT THE BOLDEST LEAP CAME IN 1948, WITH THE STAR MARKET'S FIRST SUPERMARKET.

BUT STAR MARKET WAS IMMEDIATELY ON A COLLISION COURSE WITH THE LATEST THING IN ROADS -- THE MODERN HIGHWAY.

>> MORE AND MORE AND MORE CARS.

>> THE TURNPIKE AUTHORITY WANTED TO GO THROUGH NEWTONVILLE AND TAKE OVER THE STAR MARKET'S PARKING LOT.

>> THE TURNPIKE AUTHORITY GOT ITS ROUTE, AND THE MUGARS WERE GRANTED THE AIR RIGHTS TO BUILD A NEW STORE ON TOP OF THE NEW TURNPIKE.

THE SUCCESS OF THE STAR MARKET PROJECT FUELED THE IMAGINATIONS OF DEVELOPERS AND CITY LEADERS, WHO SAW A FUTURE WITH GLEAMING BUILDINGS OVER THE PIKE.

IN REALITY, NOTHING HAS BEEN BUILT WITH AIR RIGHTS WEST OF THE CITY IN ALMOST 50 YEARS.

AND SO, IT STANDS OVER THE PIKE TODAY, A NOD TO NEWTON'S PAST, AND TO AN IMAGINED FUTURE THAT NEVER CAME TO PASS.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org