>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS ARE CALLING FOR A NATIONWIDE PAUSE ON THE USE OF THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON COVID VACCINE AFTER BLOOD CLOTS APPEARED IN SIX WOMEN, ONE OF WHOM DIED.

WHILE THIS IS NOT EVEN ONE IN A MILLION OF THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED THE SHOT, WILL IT FEED VACCINE HESITANCY?

AND HOW SERIOUS ARE THE RISKS?

THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THE SPECIAL PATHOGENS UNIT AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER, DR. NAHID BHADELIA, JOINS ME.

PLUS, BOSTON CITY COUNCILOR LYDIA EDWARDS ON CALLS FOR TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY AFTER "THE BOSTON GLOBE" REPORTED THE CITY'S POLICE DEPARTMENT KNEW FOR DECADES ABOUT APPARENT CHILD MOLESTATION BY A LONGTIME OFFICER AND UNION HEAD AND DID NOTHING TO STOP HIM.

AND, LATER, NBC BOSTON ANCHOR J.C. MONAHAN, WHO RECENTLY BROKE HER SILENCE ABOUT HER MENTAL HEALTH STRUGGLES IN A REMARKABLE ESSAY IN "BOSTON" MAGAZINE.

>>> AND THEN THERE WERE TWO.

TODAY THE C.D.C.

AND THE F.D.A.

CALLED FOR AN IMMEDIATE PAUSE IN THE USE OF THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON SINGLE-DOSE SHOT OVER REPORTS THOSE HALF-DOZEN WOMEN DEVELOPED A RARE BLOOD CLOT DISORDER WITHIN A COUPLE WEEKS OF GETTING THE VACCINES, ONE OF WHOM DIED.

THE CASES REPRESENT A VERY SMALL FRACTION OF THE NEARLY SEVEN MILLION PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THE VACCINE SO FAR IN THE U.S., BUT PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS SAID TODAY THEY'RE ACTING OUT OF AN ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION.

>> PEOPLE SAY, "WHAT DOES A PAUSE MEAN?"

IT REALLY ALLOWS BOTH THE F.D.A.

AND THE C.D.C.

TO FURTHER INVESTIGATE THESE CASES TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE MECHANISMS OF WHAT IT IS, AND MIGHT SHED SOME LIGHT ON LOOKING FORWARD ON WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND WHAT WE WILL DO.

THE OTHER THING IS TO MAKE PHYSICIANS OUT THERE AWARE OF THIS, AND THERE ARE SOME CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THAT.

>> Braude: AND WHILE THEY SAY THERE'S VERY LITTLE RISK TO PEOPLE WHO GOT THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE MORE THAN A MONTH AGO, C.D.C.

OFFICIALS ARE URGING PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THE VACCINE MORE RECENTLY TO BE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR CERTAIN SYMPTOMS.

>> IF YOU'VE RECEIVED THE VACCINE AND DEVELOPED SEVERE HEADACHES, ABDOMINAL PAIN, LEG PAIN, OR SHORTNESS OF BREATH, YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER AND SEEK MEDICAL TREATMENT.

>> Braude: THE CASES HAVE ALSO PROMPTED JOHNSON & JOHNSON TO DELAY THEIR ROLLOUT IN EUROPE WHILE INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE U.S.

INCIDENTS PLAY OUT.

FOR MORE ON WHAT ALL THIS MEANS FOR THE VACCINE ROOT IN THIS COUNTRY, WITH COVID CASES ON THE RISE, PARTICULARLY AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE, I'M JOINED BY DR. NAHID BHADELIA, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THE SPECIAL PATHOGENS UNIT AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER.

>> Braude: DOCTOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU, AS SALLS.

AS ALWAYS.

>> Doctor: GOOD TO SEE YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU SAY TO SOMEBODY WHO SAID I HAVE HEARD ALL OF THE ARGUMENTS, BUT I GOT A J & J SHOT AND I'M REALLY NERVOUS.

WHAT DO YOU TELL HIM OR HER?

>> Doctor: I WOULD TAKE THIS AS A SIGN THAT OUR SYSTEM OF MONITORING, EVEN FOR RARE VACCINE ASSOCIATED ADVERSE EFFECTS IS WORKING.

BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT A PRETTY RARE SIGNAL OF SIX OUT OF SEVEN MILLION DOSES.

THERE IS A COUPLE OF THINGS: IF YOU JUST GOT YOUR J & J VACCINE, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO PARSE OUT.

IT OCCURRED BETWEEN SIX TO 13 DAYS.

AND THE THOUGHT IS THAT THE REASON -- ONE OF THE REASONS YOU MIGHT BE SEEING THIS IS BECAUSE THE MECHANISM BEHIND WHAT THE BLOOD CLOTS ARE, AND THEY SEEM TO BE DIFFERENT FROM BLOOD CLOTS FROM INSTABILITY OR IF YOU GO ON A LONG TRAVEL, IN THIS SCENARIO THERE IS A THOUGHT IT MAY BE RELATED TO SOME PEOPLE WITH GENETIC PROPENSITY, YOU MAY DEVELOP ANTIBODIES AGAINST PART OF YOUR BLOOD THAT HELPS DEVELOP CLOTTING.

SO YOU GET STROKE-LIKE SYMPTOMS IN SOME AREAS AND BLEEDING IN THE OTHER.

IN ALL OF THE CASES, YOU'RE LOOKING AT A PARTICULAR SUBPOPULATION, SO MONITOR YOURSELF FOR ANY TYPES OF THOSE EMERGENCY SIGNS THAT THE C.D.C.

JUST TALKED ABOUT.

BUT I WOULD NOT BE CONCERNED BECAUSE, REALLY, DESPITE ALL OF THIS, THE RISK OF CLOTS FROM COVID ITSELF ARE MUCH HIGHER AS ARE OTHER RISK FACTORS, SUCH AS OVERALL CONTRACEPTIVES.

THE RISK THERE IS ABOUT 40 IN 100,000.

HERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE IN OVER A MILLION.

>> Braude: WELL, I CAN MEET YOUR FACTS AND RAISE YOU EVEN ONE.

WHILE IT IS ONE IN A MILLION WHO GOT THE CLOT, IT IS ONLY ONE IN SEVEN MILLION WHO DIED.

AND I DID A LITTLE MATH TODAY.

IT IS ROUGHLY ONE IN 7,000 WHO DIE FROM COVID.

BUT ON THE RADIO TODAY, WE TOOK CALLS FROM PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTOOD ALL OF THE NUMBERS, DOCTOR, BUT AS YOU KNOW FAR BETTER THAN I, VACCINE HESITANCY, EXCEPT FOR THE CRAZY POLITICAL TYPES, IS MORE BORNE OF EMOTION THAN CHALLENGING THE SCIENCE.

WE HAD EVEN HAD PEOPLE CALL TODAY SAYING NOW THEY'RE NERVOUS ABOUT PFIZER AND MODERNA BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH JOHNSON & JOHNSON.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE EMOTIONAL RELUCTANCE?

>> Doctor: YEAH.

I THINK IT IS A WELL-KNOWN FACT THAT NEW RISKS -- IF YOU INTRODUCE PEOPLE TO NEW RISKS, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE ALARMED BY IT THAN ONES ALREADY IN THEIR BACKGROUND, YOU KNOW, WALKING DOWN THE STREET, FLYING, ANY OF THESE THINGS THAT ARE A RISK, AS WELL AS ALL OF THE VACCINES AND MEDICINES THAT WE TAKE HAVE ADVERSE EFFECTS, PARTICULARLY FOR RARE POPULATIONS.

YOU'RE RIGHT, IT IS AN EMOTIONAL PART.

THE WAY WE HANDLE IT IS WE PROVIDE THE DATA AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT THE FACT WHAT THIS MAY REQUIRE IS ALSO JUST LOOKING AT THE SYSTEM IS WORKING.

WHAT THIS PAUSE IS GOING TO ALLOW THE F.D.A.

TO DO IS LOOK AT THE SIX CASES TO SEE IF THEY'RE PLAUSIBLELY, TRULY RELATED TO THE VACCINE.

MY SENSE IS THEY MAY FIND THERE MIGHT BE A MECHANISM SIMILAR TO WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH ASTRAZENECA, BECAUSE JOHNSON & JOHNSON ARE VERY SIMILAR.

AND YOU MAY NOT BE SEEING THE SAME RATES, EVEN HOW RARE THESE ARE, YOU MAY NOT BE SEEING THESE THINGS IN THE OTHER VACCINES.

DESPITE THAT, WE NEED TO ALLOW THE F.D.A.

TO DO THE FULL ANALYSIS, AND THEN TO FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE AT HIGHEST RISK AND KEEPING A CLOSER EYE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN PREVENT ANY ADVERSE EFFECTS.

OVER ALL, THE BIGGEST THING IS TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITHIN OUR DOCTORS' OFFICES, AND THESE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU AND I ARE HAVING TO PUT THE RISK REALLY INTO FOCUS COMPARED TO THE RISK FROM COVID, COMPARED TO THE RISK CAUSED FROM OTHER CONDITIONS.

>> Braude: IN RETROSPECT, THOUGH, IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT UP THE POINT YOU JUST DID, THERE HASN'T BEEN A DEMONSTRATED CAUSAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE VACCINES AND THE BLOOD CLOTS.

WOULD IT NOT HAVE BEEN BETTER TO WAIT TO ANNOUNCE THE PAUSE UNTIL THEY HAVE INVESTIGATED WHETHER THERE ACTUALLY WAS SUCH A CONNECTION?

>> Doctor: JIM, PART OF THE REASON THEY MAY HAVE TAKEN THIS STEP IS ANY TIME YOU SEE EVENTS OF GREATER FREQUENCY THAN YOU MAY HAVE EXPECTED, THEY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT.

IT COMES IN THE AFTERMATH OF RECENT DATA COMING OUT OF ASTRAZENECA.

THE FINDINGS OF ONE IN 250,000 IN THE EUROPEAN MEDICINES AGENCY, AND THE DATA FROM THAT VACCINE, THERE IS A LITTLE MORE BIOLOGICAL PLAUSABILITY.

THAT IN SOME RARE CONDITIONS, IN PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE PROPENSITY FOR THAT, YOU MAY HAVE THESE REACTIONS.

I THINK THEY ARE RESPONDING TO THAT AND BEING CAUTIOUS.

TO ENSURE BECAUSE THERE ARE SIMILAR TECHNOLOGIES, THAT YOU'RE NOT SEEING WHAT IS SIMILAR TO THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON.

>> Braude: LAST QUESTION: IF A PATIENT CAME TO YOU, AND LET'S ASSUME THEY DETERMINE THERE IS A CAUSAL CONNECTION.

A PATIENT COMES TO YOU AND SAYS, SHOULD I GET THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINES -- ACTUALLY, LET ME REPHRASE THAT QUESTION.

A PATIENT WHO IS A WOMAN, BETWEEN 18AND 48 COMES TO YOU AND SAYS, SHOULD I GET THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE, WHAT DO YOU TELL HER, DOCTOR?

>> Doctor: CURRENTLY, WE HAVE TO WORK OUT TO FIGURE OUT HOW HIGH THIS RISK IS.

SINCE WE HAVE OPTIONS TO OFFER OTHERS, FOR THOSE IN THE HIGH RISK, LET SOME OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES, THE STANCES THEY HAVE TAKEN, GIVING HIGH-RISK WOMEN OTHER VACCINES, TO AVOID THIS VERY RARE SIDE EFFECT -- IF A LINK IS DISCOVERED, THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT I WOULD IMAGINE THE F.D.A.

MAY CONSIDER AS WELL, IF THEY DO ANYTHING.

THE ONE THING I DO THINK WILL BE INTERESTING TO WATCH, JIM, IS THAT JOHNSON & JOHNSON HAS A TRIAL, IF YOU REMEMBER, WITH THE SECOND DOSE, TWO DOSES, AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THE F.D.A.

'S CURRENT ANNOUNCEMENT WILL AFFECT THE TRIAL, WHERE PEOPLE ARE GETTING TWO DOSES OF JOHNSON & JOHNSON, AND IF THAT WILL BE PLACED ON PAUSE AND THAT WILL BE SOMETHING TO WATCH OUT FOR.

>> Braude: DOCTOR, AS ALWAYS, INCREDIBLY HELPFUL.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Braude: NEXT UP, IT WAS NEWS TO ALMOST EVERYONE WHEN THE FORMER HEAD OF THE BOSTON POLICE PATROLMAN'S ASSOCIATION AND LONGTIME P.B.

D.OFFICER PATRICK ROSE, SR., WAS ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH RAPE AND INDECENT ASSAULT LAST SUMMER.

BUT ACCORDING TO A RECENT REPORT FROM "THE BOSTON GLOBE'S" ANDREW RYAN, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAD KNOWN FOR DECADES THAT ROSE HAD BEEN ACCUSED OF SUCH BEHAVIOR.

THE INVESTIGATION FOUND THAT THE B.P.D.

IN 1995 FILED A CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT ON A 12-YEAR-OLD, AND EVEN AFTER THE COMPLAINT WAS DROPPED, PROCEEDED WITH AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION THAT CONCLUDED THAT HE LIKELY COMMITTED A CRIME.

DESPITE THAT FINDING, ROSE KEPT HIS BADGE, REMAINED ON PATROL FOR ANOTHER 21 YEARS, AND ROSE TO POWER IN THE UNION THAT REPRESENTS PATROL OFFICERS.

AND TODAY THE "GLOBE" REPORTED STATE CHILD WELFARE INVESTIGATORS ALSO BELIEVED IN 19915 THAT BELIEVED IN 1995 THAT THERE WAS EVIDENCE ROSE HAD ABUSED A CHILD.

SINCE THEN, ROSE ALLEGEDLY CONTINUED TO ABUSE YOUNG CHILDREN, INCLUDING, THE "GLOBE" REPORTED, THE DAUGHTER OF A BOY HE WAS ACCUSED OF MOLESTING IN THE 1995 CASE.

HE NOW FACES MORE THAN 30 CHARGES OF SEXUAL ABUSE OF SIX DIFFERENT VICTIMS, WHO RANGED FROM SEVEN TO 16 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME, ALL OF WHICH HE HAS DENIED.

SINCE OCTOBER, THE "GLOBE" HAS BEEN REQUESTING THE DISGRACED UNION LEADER'S INTERNAL AFFAIRS FILE, BUT THE B.P.D.

HAS REPEATEDLY REFUSED.

AND EVEN AFTER THE STATE'S SUPERVISOR OF PUBLIC RECORDS ARGUED THE CITY HAD NO BASIS TO WITHHOLD THEM, FORMER MAYOR MARTY WALSH'S ADMINISTRATION REFUSED TO HAND THEM OVER.

BUT TODAY HIS SUCCESSOR, ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY, ANNOUNCED SHE'S TAKING A DIFFERENT APPROACH.

>> AS A MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER, I WAS ANGRY AND HEARTBROKEN THAT NOTHING WAS DONE TO KEEP ROSE AWAY FROM CHILDREN, OR TO TERMINATE HIM FOR THAT MATTER, AFTER SERIOUS CHARGES WERE FOUND TO BE CREDIBLE BY A BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT INTERNAL AFFAIRS PROBE.

WE CANNOT WAIT FOR TRANSPARENCY.

I HAVE ORDERED RELEASE OF REDACTED FILES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> Braude: THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL HAS ALSO PLEDGED TO "USE EVERY TOOL AVAILABLE TO ENSURE TRANSPARENCY AND CREATE SAFEGUARDS TO PREVENT ANYTHING LIKE THIS FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN."

COUNCILOR LYDIA EDWARDS JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: COUNCILOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, AS HORRIBLE AS THIS PATRICK ROSE THING IS, AND I THINK IT IS ONE OF THE WORST THINGS I'VE HEARD, HOW DO WE KNOW THERE AREN'T 20 OR 100 PATRICK ROSES WHO THE GLOBE HAS NOT UNCOVERED WHO HAVE BEEN PROTECTED BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR YEARS?

>> WE DON'T.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

AND THIS IS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM THAT SOMEONE CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS, CONTINUE AND GROW IN LEADERSHIP, AND ULTIMATELY, AGAIN, YOU SEE A FAILURE OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT TO POLICE ITS OWN.

THIS IS A SYSTEMIC ISSUE, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO ATTACK IT LIKE WE ARE, AND TO DO A FULL-ON INVESTIGATION OF EVERY SINGLE ALLEGATION.

>> Braude: SYSTEMIC IS RIGHT.

TRANSPARENCY SEEMS TO BE AN ALIEN CONCEPT WHEN IT COMES TO THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT.

OUR COMMISSIONER FOR A DAY, DENNIS WHITE, WHO WAS ACCUSED OF DOMESTIC ABUSE 20-PLUS YEARS AGO, THERE IS AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS REPORT THERE AS WELL.

THE GLOBE HAS REQUESTED IT, AND THE CITY DENIED THE REQUEST, AND THE STATE'S SUPERVISOR, OVERSEARSEER OF RECORDS, SAID THERE IS NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON FOR THEM TO WITHHOLD.

I ASKED HER ABOUT THIS, AND SHE SAID SHE WOULD LOOK AT THE RECORDS SHE DID NOT COMMIT TO RELEASE THAT.

SO IT GOES ON AND ON, NO?

>> IT GOES ON AND ON UNTIL PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

IF YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY PUNISHED AND THERE ARE NOT REAL DEADLINES SET AND REAL COMMITMENTS PUT ON THE TABLE, AND THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, IF I'M SITTING THERE NOT WANTING TO HAVE THESE RECORDS TO GO OUT, I HAVE NO REAL REASON TO RUSH OR COMPLY WITH ANY OF THESE REQUESTS.

THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES.

>> Braude: JUST TALKING TO YOU, I'M WORKING MYSELF INTO A FRENZY.

I HOPE THIS GUY'S NAME IS RIGHT, CLIFTON McKALE.

THIS IS A GUY WHO WAS BRAGGING ABOUT DRIVING HIS VEHICLE INTO SOME PROTESTORS.

HE IS PUT ON ADMINISTRATIVE LEAVE, I BELIEVE.

DURING THAT TIME WE FIND OUT HE HAD SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AN IN TOCKS TOX AN INTOXICATED WOMAN WHILE HE WAS IN UNIFORM.

AND HE GETS UNPAID SUSPENSION.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA IS HE STILL ON LEAVE?

IS HE BACK ON THE FORCE?

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH HIM?

>> I WON'T BE SATISFIED UNTIL HE IS IN JAIL.

NO, I DON'T KNOW.

AGAIN, IS THAT CLOAK OF -- I DON'T KNOW, IT IS JUST A CLOAK OF SECRECY THAT WE HAVE TO END.

IT IS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM.

WE'VE SEEN IT WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND WE'VE SEEN IT WITH OTHER INSTITUTIONS, AND WE NEED TO ATTACK IT FULL ON.

YOU START WITH THE NEGOTIATIONS AND LOOKING AT THE UNION CONTRACTS.

YOU START WITH HOW YOU TREAT PEOPLE.

AND, HONESTLY, YOU START WITH FIRING PEOPLE AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

AND THAT'S THE ISSUE.

IT IS NOT THAT THERE IS A PERFECT INSTITUTION OUT THERE THAT DOESN'T HAVE BAD APPLES.

IT IS THAT YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO ATTACK SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS BEFORE THEY BECOME GENERATIONAL AND HAPPEN OVER DECADES.

THIS IS OUR ISSUE.

IT IS EMBARRASSING.

AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, I FEEL THIS IS NOW ON MY SHOULDERS, I HAVE INHERITED THIS.

AND I'M NOT GOING TO KICK THE CAN.

I CANNOT GIVE THAT TO THE NEXT CLASS OF CITY COUNCILORS WHO COME IN.

WE NEED TO BE BOLD.

WE NEED TO BE HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE POLICE BUDGET.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE REALLY END THIS.

I APPRECIATE THE CALL TO GET THINGS DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT THAT HAPPENED YEARS AGO.

IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN NOW.

WE NEED A DEADLINE AND PEOPLE NEED TO BE FIRED IF THEY DON'T MEET THAT DEADLINE.

>> Braude: SO WHY SHOULD YOUR CONSTITUENTS FEEL SAFE, KNOWING THEY'RE BEING PROTECTED BY SOMEONE WHO THEY ACTUALLY MIGHT NEED PROTECTION FROM?

>> IT IS NOT EVEN THE INDIVIDUAL.

IT IS THE FACT THAT THE SYSTEM CAN SO FAIL US ALL, AND FOR GENERATIONS.

AGAIN, THERE IS NO PERFECT DEPARTMENT IN THIS WORLD.

THERE ARE BAD APPLES.

BUT WHEN YOU FAIL TO ACTUALLY ADDRESS THE ISSUES, IT IS A SENSE OF -- IT IS A LACK OF MORAL COMPASS.

IT IS A LACK OF PROTECTING PEOPLE.

IT IS A SHAME -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY THIS AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING ON MORE OF THIS EMOTIONAL PART THAN THE BOSTON PATROL ASSOCIATION IS.

I HAVEN'T HEARD A PEEP FROM THEM.

I HAVEN'T HEARD A PEEP FROM A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS WHO SHOULD BE COMING FORWARD AND SAYING, THIS IS ALL PART OF OUR DOING, AND IT'S IN ALL OF OUR HANDS.

>> Braude: WE ASKED FOR A COMMENT AS WELL FROM THE UNION.

WE'VE HEARD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

FINAL QUESTION FOR YOU: YOU'VE MENTIONED ACCOUNTABILITY A BUNCH OF TIMES IN THIS DISCUSSION.

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT THE HIGHER-UPS WHO BASICALLY COVERED UP FOR THIS GUY FOR TWO DECADES, LET HIM BE OUT IN THE STREET, AND WE LEARNED IN THE GLOBE IN MANY CASES ATTENDING TO ISSUES, POTENTIAL CRIMES INVOLVING YOUNG KIDS -- ARE YOU CONVINCED THE HIGHER-UPS WHO ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN WILL ULTIMATELY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE?

AND I HAVE, LIKE, 30 SECONDS.

>> I AM CONVINCED, IF WE HAVE THE LEADERSHIP, AND WE PUSH, AND WE CONTINUE TO SHINE SUNLIGHT WHERE WE NEED TO.

WE NEED TO EMBARRASS THEM AND CONSTANTLY PULL THEM FORWARD AND REALLY TALK ABOUT THEIR RETIREMENTS AND THEIR PENSIONS, AND HONESTLY GO AS FAR BACK AS WE NEED TO AND MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS APPROPRIATELY PUNISHED.

THIS IS THE TIME NOW TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE PEOPLE OF BOSTON WE CAN RISE TO THE OCCASION AND FIX THIS.

>> Braude: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

COUNCILOR LYDIA EDWARDS, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR WORK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> Braude: FOR MANY, ALL THE GRIEF, ANXIETY, AND ISOLATION BROUGHT ON BY THE PANDEMIC HAS TAKEN A REAL TOLL ON THEIR MENTAL HEALTH.

BUT FOR MY NEXT GUEST, IT'S SERVED AS A REMINDER OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES SHE STRUGGLED WITH IN SILENCE FOR YEARS, WHILE PUTTING ON A BRAVE FACE FOR HER FAMILY, FRIENDS, AND TV VIEWERS.

>> AS MORE KIDS RETURN TO THE CLASSROOMS IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE NUMBER OF COVID CASES IN SCHOOL IS ON THE RISE.

>> Braude: THAT WOULD BE NBC BOSTON ANCHOR J.C. MONAHAN, WHO BROKE HER SILENCE IN THE LATEST ISSUE OF "BOSTON" MAGAZINE, WRITING ABOUT THE DEPRESSION AND DEBILITATING ANXIETY THAT FUELED AN "EMOTIONAL DOWNWARD SPIRAL" A FEW YEARS AGO, AFTER TWO MAJOR LIFE CHANGES: A DIVORCE AFTER 15 YEARS OF MARRIAGE, AND A NEW JOB AFTER EVEN LONGER AT HER PREVIOUS STATION, WCVB.

SHE DESCRIBES FEELING LIKE SHE WAS "DROWNING" IN HER OWN THOUGHTS, TO THE POINT THAT SHE COULD NO LONGER BREATHE.

AND SHE WRITES ABOUT HOW SHE BEGAN TO RELY ON ANXIETY MEDICATION TO HELP HER FALL SLEEP.

AT FIRST IT WAS JUST ONE OR TWO PILLS MORE THAN PRESCRIBED.

EVENTUALLY I JUST STOPPED COUNTING.

A FEW MORE?

A HANDFUL?

ONE NIGHT, SHE LEFT THE BOTTLE BY HER BED, APPARENTLY TOOK MORE PILLS DURING THE NIGHT, AND NEARLY OVERDOSED.

SHE EXPLAINS, "I ONLY WANTED TO SLEEP, BUT I COULD HAVE DIED."

ULTIMATELY, J.C. FOUND THE STRENGTH TO REACH OUT TO THE PEOPLE CLOSE TO HER AND ASK FOR HELP, AND NOW SHE HOPES HER STORY WILL HELP REACH OTHERS STRUGGLING TO DO THE SAME.

J.C. MONAHAN JOINED ME EARLIER TO DISCUSS.

>> Braude: J.C., GREAT TO SEE YOU.

>> IT'S GREAT TO SEE YOU, TOO, JIM.

>> Braude: YOU SAID IN THE PIECE IN BOSTON MAGAZINE, IT IS LIKELY YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SPOKEN PUBLICLY WERE IT NOT FOR THE PANDEMIC, WHY?

>> 100%, 110%.

IF YOU READ THE ARTICLE, THAT WAS ONE OF MY MAJOR PROBLEMS, I DON'T TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS.

AND I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T SHARE IT OUTSIDE MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY.

MY BELIEF IS ALWAYS EVERYBODY HAS THEIR STUFF, RIGHT?

WHAT MAKES MY STUFF ANY DIFFERENT?

WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY?

I MEAN, THAT WAS KIND OF PART OF MY PROBLEM, IS THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO BURDEN ANYBODY.

I DIDN'T WANT TO BURDEN MY FRIENDS.

I DIDN'T WANT TO BURDEN MY FAMILY WITH WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH.

AFTER I WENT THROUGH ALL OF IT AND YOU COME OUT THE OTHER SIDE, YOU'RE SORT OF, LIKE, OKAY, BUT THAT WAS MY TRIP.

I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS SOMETHING ANYBODY WOULD WANT TO HEAR.

>> Braude: I WANT TO REITERATE, YOU DIDN'T EVEN BURDEN -- AS YOU SAY, AND BURDEN IS YOUR WORD -- YOU DIDN'T TELL YOUR FRIENDS, YOU DIDN'T TELL YOUR FAMILY, YOU DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> JUST ABOUT.

I'M REALLY CLOSE WITH MY FAMILY.

MY MOM KNEW -- THEY KNEW WHEN I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH DEPRESSION, SO THEY KNEW IN 2007.

BUT IT WAS BASICALLY MANAGED.

THEY KNEW -- BEFORE THIS SPIRAL OF -- THE CRASH OF 2018, AS I CALL IT, I WAS ONLY SEEING A THERAPIST ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR.

IT WAS, LIKE, MAINTENANCE AT THAT POINT AND EVERYTHING WAS GOING OKAY.

SO MY FAMILY KNEW.

MY FRIENDS DEFINITELY DIDN'T KNOW.

AND THAT WAS PART OF IT, WAS THAT I DON'T SHARE A LOT.

I'M JUST, LIKE, REALLY PRIVATE, AND I GREW UP IN SORT OF A HOUSE THAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, BESMIRK THE WHOLE CATHOLIC COMMUNITY.

BUT EN MY IN MY IRISH CATHOLIC FAMILY, WE DON'T DO THIS.

YOU DON'T SIT DOWN AND HAVE THESE HEART TO HEARTS.

I ALWAYS USED TO JOKE, UNLESS THERE IS A SCREEN RIGHT HERE FOR THE PERSON I'M TALKING TO, USUALLY SOMEONE YOU CAN'T SEE -- [LAUGHTER] >> -- THERE IS NOT A LOT OF CHITCHAT GOING ON.

MY MOM -- DON'T GET ME WRONG, A GREAT FAMILY.

MY MOM SAYS I LOVE YOU ALL OF THE TIME, BUT IT IS JUST THAT KIND OF THING.

>> Braude: I GOT IT.

WERE YOU WORRIED WITH THE REACTION YOUR PIECE WOULD HAVE?

>> OH, YES.

OH, YEAH, FROM THE BEGINNING.

IT WAS -- I SPOKE TO SOME OF MY FRIENDS.

I SENT THEM THE COPY, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE DRAFTS AS IT WENT THROUGH, BECAUSE I REALIZED IF I'M NOT COMFORTABLE SENDING THEM THE DRAFTS, I SURE SHOULDN'T BE PUBLISHING IT.

SO I WAS REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE.

I THINK WHAT I THOUGHT IN GENERAL, JIM, WAS THAT I WOULD GET NICE RESPONSE.

LIKE WHEN I POST SOMETHING ON Facebook, AND I POST A CUTE PICTURE OF MY GIRLS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET THIS REALLY LOVELY RESPONSE.

PEOPLE SAYING, THAT'S SO GREAT AND THAT'S SO CUTE.

I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE IT, OH, GOOD FOR YOU.

HOPEFULLY THIS WOULD HELP SOMEONE, AND IT WAS SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

AND I ALSO EXPECTED SOME NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ABOUT ATTENTION-SEEKING SORT OF FEEDBACK WHICH WOULD HURT ME THE MOST BECAUSE THAT IS ACTUALLY WHAT ALMOST STOPPED ME FROM DOING THIS BECAUSE DOING THIS RIGHT NOW WITH YOU IS EVEN INCREDIBLY UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME.

LIKE TOP 10 UNCOMFORTABLE -- YOU'RE A GREAT GUY, JIM, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS.

>> Braude: NOT THAT GREAT.

FIRST TWO THINGS ON TWITTER, WONDERFUL JOURNALIST, COURAGEOUS WOMAN, KUDOS, THIS DEEPLY PERSONAL ARTICLE WILL BOTH CHANGE AND SAVE LIVES.

AND THIS PUTS ME IN AN ODD COMFORT KNOWING I'M NOT ALONE.

YOU'RE FRIENDS WERE ACTUALLY THE KEY TO THE SUPPORT YOU NEEDED TO PULL OUT OF THIS THING.

BUT AS HARD AS IT WAS FOR YOU AT FIRST TO SPEAK TO THEM, YOU LEARNED, I THINK, IT IS ALSO REALLY HARD FOR THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING WITH WHATEVER IT IS, INCLUDING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

SO WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO THOSE PEOPLE, J.C.?

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HELP BUT REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW?

>> THAT WAS A HUGE PART OF WHY I WROTE IT, WAS BECAUSE PANDEMIC WE HEAR ALL OF THESE STORIES, MENTAL ILLNESS, PEOPLE DYING BY SUICIDE, AND I WOULD HEAR ON THE OTHER SIDE PEOPLE SAYING, WHY DIDN'T HE REACH OUT.

I WISH HE WOULD HAVE TALKED TO ME.

I WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE FOR HIM.

WHAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT IS THAT IS A HUGE ASK FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH WHATEVER, I WOULD ASSUME.

CERTAINLY I CAN SPEAK FOR MYSELF.

GETTING OUT OF BED IS LIKE ASKING ME TO CLIMB MT.

EVEREST.

THAT'S THE WEIGHT OF WHAT I FELT.

NOW YOU WANT ME TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL SOMEBODY, ESPECIALLY IN MY MIND WHEN I'M THINKING THIS WOULD BE A BURDEN TO THEM.

OH, MY GOSH, THEN THEY'LL FEEL OBLIGATED TO COME OVER.

THEY'LL FEEL OBLIGATED TO HELP ME NOW THAT I'VE DUMPED THIS ON THEM.

THESE ARE THE KEY WORDS I'D BE USING IN MY HEAD: OBLIGATED, DUMPED, BURDENED.

MY POINT IN THE ARTICLE WAS JUST SHOW UP.

SOME WAY OR ANOTHER, A TEXT, A PHONE CALL, WHATEVER IT IS.

AND I WROTE IN THE ARTICLE, DON'T BE OFFENDED IF IT IS REJECTED.

DON'T BE OFFENDED IF -- I TRIED TO PUSH MY FRIENDS AWAY LEFT AND RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, I STOPPED TALKING TO ONE OF THEM WHEN SHE WAS THE ONE WHO KIND OF GOT THIS SNOWBALL ROLLING WHEN SHE HEARD ME ON THE PHONE AND I WASN'T SOUNDING COHERENT, AND SHE CALLED SOMEBODY ELSE TO COME TO MY HOUSE, AND I WAS FURIOUS WITH HER FOR A WHILE, AND THEN I CAME TO REALIZE SHE WAS THE MOST AMAZING FRIEND I COULD EVER ASK FOR.

IT IS JUST NOT -- IT'S REALLY, REALLY HARD.

I WOULD SAY IF YOU KNOW ANYBODY WHO IS STRUGGLING WITH ANYTHING, THEY WANT HELP.

I WANTED HELP.

I WAS TRYING WITH ALL OF MY BEING TO STAY ALIVE.

THAT WAS THE FIGHT.

MY FIGHT WAS: WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TODAY TO GET TO TOMORROW?

WHAT IS GOING TO HELP ME SORT OF OVERCOME THE MENTAL GAME SO I CAN SLEEP TONIGHT SO THAT TOMORROW I CAN DO MORE?

SO IT WAS NEVER I DON'T WANT YOUR HELP; I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO ASK FOR THAT HELP -- I DIDN'T.

THAT WAS JUST NOT IN MY WHEEL HOUSE.

AND, FRANKLY, JIM, I HAVE NEVER DONE THAT PREVIOUSLY.

I MOVED THREE TIMES AND I NEVER ASKED FRIENDS TO COME WITH THEIR PICK UP TRUCKS.

>> Braude: THE FIRST SENTENCE IS "I'D LIKE TO SAY I'D BE HAPPY IF MY STORY REACHES ONE PERSON, BUT I WOULD BE LYING."

SO FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ IT, FINISH THE PARAGRAPH.

WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

>> THE TRUTH IS I WANTED SOMEBODY WHO WOULD READ IT AND THEN WOULD PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL SOMEBODY THEY KNOW OR TEXT THEM OR TALK TO ONE OF THEIR FRIENDS TO SAY, HEY, I'VE KIND OF NOTICED THAT JOHN ISN'T, LIKE, HANGING OUT WITH US AS MUCH.

YOU KNOW, HE JUST DOESN'T SOUND LIKE HIMSELF ON THE PHONE.

JUST GET THAT DIALOGUE ROLLING BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT STARTS, AND THAT'S HOW YOU GET PEOPLE TO HELP.

AND THAT'S WHAT MY FRIENDS BASICALLY DID.

ONE CALLED ANOTHER WHO CALLED ANOTHER BECAUSE MY TWO BEST FRIENDS DON'T EVEN LIVE AROUND HERE.

SO THEY HAD TO REACH OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE TO KIND OF CHECK IN ON ME.

BUT THE WHOLE IDEA IS SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT, AND I'M NOT GOING TO JUST SIT BACK AND SAY, SHE'LL OPEN UP WHEN SHE IS READY.

I NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN READY, PERIOD.

NEVER.

>> Braude: J.C., I WOULD SAY FOR EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO READ THAT PIECE IN "BOSTON" MAGAZINE, YOU ARE A COURAGEOUS PERSON WHO IS HELPING CHANGE THE WORLD PIECE BY PIECE BY PIECE.

SO ON ALL OF THEIR BEHALF, WE THANK YOU.

YOU DID GREAT.

THANK YOU, J.C. >> THANKS, JIM, SO MUCH.

I REALLY APPRECIATE.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org