♪ ♪ ♪ >> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," COMING TO YOU FROM THE BOSTON PUBLIC LIBRARY, I'LL TALK TO CONGRESSMAN JIM McGOVERN, WHO'S LEADING THE STATE DELEGATION; MOST OF THEM, ANYWAY; IN OPPOSITION TO A FEDERAL PLAN TO CLOSE THE NORTHAMPTON V.A.

HOSPITAL, WHICH HE'S PREPARING TO TAKE UP WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN.

WE'LL GET INTO THAT, THE WAR IN UKRAINE, SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN'S WARNING TO DEMOCRATS ABOUT A MIDTERM WIPEOUT, AND MORE.

THEN LATER, CHRIS DOUGHTY, WHO, ALONG WITH GEOFF DIEHL, IS VYING FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION FOR GOVERNOR.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Braude: AFTER NEARLY A CENTURY OF CARING FOR LOCAL VETERANS, THE V.A.

MEDICAL CENTER IN NORTHAMPTON IS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.

THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS RECOMMENDED THE CLOSURE LAST MONTH, SAYING THE EDWARD P. BOLAND V.A.

MEDICAL CENTER WAS AMONG THOSE THAT ARE, "NO LONGER WELL-LOCATED TO BEST SUPPORT THE VETERAN POPULATION."

INSTEAD, THE DEPARTMENT SAYS THE 21,000 FORMER SERVICE MEMBERS WHO CURRENTLY RELY ON THE NORTHAMPTON FACILITY CAN BE BETTER SERVED BY OTHER EXISTING VA CENTERS IN THE REGION.

BUT PLENTY OF OTHERS DISAGREE, INCLUDING NEARLY EVERY MEMBER OF THE MASSACHUSETTS DELEGATION WHO SIGNED A LETTER EXPRESSING "DEEP CONCERNS" ABOUT THE PROPOSAL.

THE LEAD AUTHOR OF THAT LETTER, CONGRESSMAN JIM McGOVERN JOINS ME NOW.

HE'S ALSO CHAIR OF THE HOUSE RULES COMMITTEE.

CONGRESSMAN IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> HAPPY TOE WITH YOU.

>> Braude: BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT U.S. VETERANS, LET'S TALK ABOUT MEN AND WOMEN FIGHTING IN UKRAINE.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE LEVEL OF SUPPORT THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS PROVIDING PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY?

>> I UNDERSTAND WHERE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IS COMING FROM, HE ALWAYS WANTS MORE, WE ARE PROVIDING HIM MORE AND OUR ALLIES ARE PROVIDING HIM MORE AS WELL.

BUT I THINK THE SUPPORT WE'VE PROVIDED HAS ENABLED UKRAINE I THINK TO DO WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO HOLD OFF RUSSIA AND THEIR POWERFUL ARMY.

IT IS AN INSPIRATION TO SEE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE STAND UP FOR THEIR COUNTRY.

>> Braude: THEY HAVE HELD UP BUT THERE'S ALSO BEEN A SLAUGHTER OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

HERE IS PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WITH JAKE TAPPER OFTEN CNN ON SUN'S SHOW.

>> EVERY YEAR ON HOLOCAUST REMEMBRANCE DAY, POLITICIANS PUT OUT STATEMENTS TO SAY, "NEVER AGAIN."

WHEN THE WORLD SAYS, "NEVER AGAIN" DO THEY EVER MEAN IT?

>> (translated): I DON'T BELIEVE THE WORLD, AFTER WE-- WE SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN UKRAINE.

WE DON'T BELIEVE THE WORDS.

AFTER ESCALATION OF RUSSIA, WE DON'T BELIEVE OUR NEIGHBORS.

WE DON'T BELIEVE ALL, ALL OF THIS.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY AND I'M SURE YOU KNOW CORNGMAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAD RELATIVES WHO DIED IN THE HOLOCAUST.

SANCTIONS, WEAPONS, NO ONE WOULD QUARREL WE'VE DONE A LOT BUT AS I SAID, THE SLAUGHTER CONTINUES.

IT SEEMS IN MANY WAYS PRESIDENT PUTIN IS DECIDING HOW FAR WE CAN GO.

HE SAYS HE'LL CONSIDER AIR COVER AN ACT OF WAR, TROOPS AN ACT OF WAR.

HE EVEN SAID THIS WEEK MORE WEAPONRY IS AN ACT OF WAR.

>> WELL MANY THERE WILL BE WILL BE MORE WEAPONRY AND MORE AIR SUPPORT PROVIDE DIRECTLY TO THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY.

LET'S BE CLEAR, VLADIMIR PUTIN IS A BRUTAL DICTATOR.

HE HAS NOW ADDED WAR CRIMINAL TO HIS RESUME.

WHAT HE'S DONE IN BUCHA AND OTHER PLACES ARE TANTAMOUNT TO WAR CRIMES.

HE HAS CROSSED A LINE QUITE FRANKLY THAT THERE'S NO GOING BACK AND HE'LL NEVER BE WELCOMED IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AGAIN.

HE'S NOW IN A LEAGUE WITH KIM JONG UN IN NORTH KOREA.

WE HAVE TO GET HIM OBACK OFF BUT THE WORLD NEEDS TO HOLD PUTIN AND THOSE WHO ARE COMPLICIT WITH HIM ACCOUNTABLE.

WHETHER IT'S THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT OR OTHERS, THEY HAVE TO BE WORLD PARIAHS AND THEY WILL BE.

>> Jon: BUT THE U.S.

DOESN'T BELONG TO THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT.

>> IT'S UNFORTUNATE, THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T BE SUPPORTIVE, MAKE HELP, TO IMIMED A CASE AGAINST PEUBT AND THOSE WHO ARE COMPLICIT WITH HIM.

BY THE WAY, IT'S NOT JUST PUTIN.

IT IS EVERYBODY WHO IS JISK THIS, EVERYBODY WHO'S BEEN ON THE BATTLEFIELD.

EVERYBODY WHO IS ORDERING THESE MASS KILLINGS.

>> Braude: CAN WE COME BACK TO THE UNITED STATES?

I MENTIONED THE LEAD, YOU ARE LEADING THE FIGHT TO KEEP THE NORTHAMPTON VA OPEN.

WHY DO YOU OPPOSE THE CLOSING AND WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS IN YOUR ESTIMATION?

>> FOR YEARS I'VE BEEN FIGHTING TO GET A VETERANS FACILITY IN WORCHESTER, PEOPLE HAVE TO GO TO NORTHAMPTON OR BOSTON FOR THEIR CARE AND THEY HAD HUGE WAITING TIMES ACCUMULATE.

AND WE FINALLY GOT SOMETHING BUILT IN WORCHESTER IN CONJUNCTION WITH U MASS MEDICAL SCHOOL.

NOW THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN THE VA FACILITY IN NORTHAMPTON.

THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS RELY ON THAT PLACE AND THE JUSTIFICATION FOR POTENTIALLY CLOSING THE FACILITY, THEY TALKED ABOUT ALL THESE INVESTMENTS THAT NEED TO BE MADE.

WHAT THAT REPORT DOESN'T SAY IS THOSE INVESTMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE.

TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS HAVE RECENTLY BEEN INVESTED IN THAT FACILITY, TO BRING IT UP TO STANDARD IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF WAYS.

SO THE NOTION THAT SOMEHOW, IT IS APPROPRIATE, TO EVEN CONSIDER IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO ME.

JSHED SO WHY ARE THEY DOING IT?

WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR AGENDA IS.

THEY ARE FOLLOWING A RECOMMENDATION IN A BILL THAT CONGRESS PASSED A WHILE AGO.

I DIDN'T SUPPORT IT BY THE WAY BUT THAT TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT ALL OF OUR MILITARY -- OUR VA FACILITIES AND SEEING WHERE WE MIGHT FIND SAVINGS BY CLOSING IT.

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING AND I'VE -- YOU KNOW, AND WE'VE SENT A LETTER TO THE VA, SECRETARY, MCDONALD, I'M GOING TO TALK TO HIM NEXT WEEK.

I'M DOING A LISTENING SESSION TOMORROW IN NORTHAMPTON, WHERE WE'RE GOING TO LISTEN TO OUR LOCAL VETERANS AND GET FIRSTHAND TESTIMONIES WHY IT SHOULD REMAIN OPEN BUT THIS CANNOT HAPPEN AND IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN AND THEY OUGHT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE A LOT OF OUR VETERANS ARE DEALING WITH ALL KINDS OF ANXIETY OVER THE POTENTIAL THAT THIS MUST BE CLOSED.

BUT THIS IS A STUPID RECOMMENDATION AND IT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT TO A CLOSE.

>> Braude: IF YOU ALSO GO 12 MILES DOWN THE ROAD IN THAT SAME PART OF THE STATE WAS THE HORROR AT THE HOLLYOAK FACILITY WHERE SEVERAL VETERANS DIED.

CRIMINAL CHARGES BROUGHT BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AGAINST THE TWO TOP LEADERS THERE, WERE DISMISSED BUY GUY, A GUY WHO IS AN INTERIM HEAD APPOINTED BY GOVERNOR BAKER, AS SOON AS HE FILED SOMETHING WITH THE INSPECTOR GENERAL.

CAN YOU TELL THE VETERAN THAT THERE HAS BEEN ANY REAL ACCOUNTABILITY ON THAT FRONT EITHER?

>> NO.

AND OUR HEART ACHES FOR THOSE WHO LOST THEIR LIFE AT THAT FACILITY.

THEY DESERVE THE TRUTH AND THEY DESERVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT HAPPENS.

IN THE MEANTIME, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT YOU MIGHT CLOSE A VA FACILITY THAT PROVIDES HEALTH CARE, TO THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF VETERANS IN WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS MAKES SLUM NO SENSE TO ME.

>> Braude: LET'S GO TO ANOTHER TOPIC.

I'M SURE YOU READ SENATOR WARREN'S OP ED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES.

LET ME READ ONE LINE FROM IT.

TO PUT IT WHRUNTLY, TO DELIVER MORE OF OUR AGENDA DEMOCRATS ARE HEADED TOWARDS BIG LOSSES IN THE MID TERMINATES.

DO YOU SHARE HER VIEW?

>> I DO.

I THINK CHALLENGE FOR DEMOCRATS IS WE NEED TO REMIND PEOPLE WHAT WE'VE DONE.

WE HAVE REPUBLICANS TAKING CREDIT FOR PROJECTS IN THE AMERICAN RESCUE ACT AND IN THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL WHEN AT THE VOTED AGAINST THESE BILLS.

>> Braude: I KNOW.

>> WE NEED TO REMIND PEOPLE WHAT WE'VE DONE.

WHAT OUR AGENDA IS TO GET US OUT OF THIS INFLATIONARY MOMENT IN OUR ECONOMY TO HELP DEAL WITH THE COST OF ENERGY AND THIN WE ALSO HAVE TO QUITE FRANKLY WE HAVE TO DRAW COMPARISONS.

I MEAN YOU KNOW I'M THE FIRST TO ADMIT THE DEMOCRATS AREN'T PERFECT BUT LET ME BE HONEST WITH YOU, THEY'RE NETS, I'M JUST TELLING YOU.

PEOPLE LIKE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN AND LAUREN, THAT IS INSANE.

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN GOVERNING.

THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN PROTECTING SOCIAL SECURITY AND VETERANS RIGHTS, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN TWITTER NEEDS AND THE MESSAGE OF THE RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO REMIND PEOPLE OF WHAT'S AT STAKE AND I AM REALLY WORRIED THAT THIS ELECTION, THESE MID TERM ELECTIONS REALLY ARE GOING TO BE A BELLWETHER AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WE CONTINUE WITH OUR DEMOCRACY OR WE GO IN A VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF MISTAKE HERE AND WE NEED TO SOUND THE ALARM BELLS.

>> Braude: WHAT IS A DIFFERENT DIRECTION?

WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WOULD DO IF THEY TOOK BACK THE HOUSE OR SENATE?

>> I THINK WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS ADVANCE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO AT THE STATE LEVEL.

LEGISLATION NOT ONLY TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE BUT GIVING THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO VOTE THE ABILITY TO NULLIFY ELECTIONS.

SOME OF THESE MADE UP SOCIAL, YOU KNOW, POLARIZING ISSUES THAT THEY ARE PUSHING AGAINST THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY IN STATES, THEY WOULD DO IT AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.

TAX POLICIES THAT GO TO BIG CORPORATIONS AND TO THE WEALTHIEST AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS, I THINK AN ATTACK ON ORGANIZED LABOR, I MEAN, AND NO ATTENTION TO THE CLIMATE CRISIS THAT WE HAVE.

I MEAN THEIR AGENDA IS THE AGENDA OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY NOW IS NOT THE AGENDA OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF YOUR FATHER OR GRAND FATHER.

IT IS THE MOST EXTREME RIGHT WING QANON ELEMENTS THAT YOU CAN MENTION.

I DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE EVERY DAY.

I HAVE TO WORK WITH PEOPLE WHO TELL ME THAT JANUARY 6th DIDN'T HAPPEN.

THAT IT WAS A BUNCH OF PATRIOTS THAT ATTACKED THE COSMOPOLITAN.

THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WOULD EMPOWER WITH THE REPUBLICAN VICTORY IN THE HOUSE OR THE SENATE.

WE CAN'T MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

>> Braude: ONE CORRECTION, UNLESS YOUR FATHER OR GRAND FATHER IS DONALD TRUMP.

ELIZABETH WARREN'S CONVENTION, AS WELL AS YOUR COLLEAGUE AYANNA PRESSLEY HAS OOUN ALARM AUTHORITY TO FOREVER STUDENT LOANS -- FOREGIVE STUDENT LOANS.

DO YOU BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT HAS THAT POWER?

>> I DO AND I'M WITH THEM ON THAT.

>> Braude: WHY DOESN'T HE USE IT?

>> WE HAVE MADE APPEALS TO HIM TO USE THAT AUTHORITY.

AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, ESPECIALLY AT THIS MOMENT.

>> YOU KNOW CONGRESSMAN PEOPLE HAVE SEEN YOU ON THIS SHOW AND FOLLOW YOUR CAREER I THINK WOULD ACKNOWLEDGE YOU ARE PROBABLY THE LEADER IN THE CONGRESS ON FOOD SECURITY ISSUES AND WE'VE LEARNED IN THE LAST FEW DAYS THAT A NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS HAVE TURNED BACK FOOT SUPPLEMENTS THROUGH THE SNAP PROGRAM TO ADDRESS NOOD INSECURITY THAT FEELS ON THE HEELS OF REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS, SOME RETURNING MONEY FOR HOUSING SECURITY BEFORE THAT HEALTH SECURITY THROUGH MEDICAID FUNDS THROUGH AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?

HOW IS IT LEGAL?

HOW IS IT MORAL?

FOR A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR TO RETURN FEDERAL FUNDS THAT WOULD DIRECTLY HELP LOW AND MODERATE INCOME PEOPLE IN HIS OR HER STATE?

>> YEAH, WELL, DOCTORS THE NO MORALITY IN THAT AND IT IS CRUEL.

AND IT SHOWS HOW LITTLE THEY CARE ABOUT PEOPLE WHO STRUGGLED IN THEIR STATES.

LOOK, I MEAN, WE'RE COMING OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC HOPEFULLY, INFLATION IS A FACTOR HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AS IT IS ALL AROUND THE WORLD, SO PRICES ARE UP.

AND PEOPLE ARE HURTING EVEN MORE.

AND TO KIND OF TURN A COLD SHOULDER ON SUFFERING THAT IS HAPPENING, IN EVERY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY, IS CRUEL.

I DON'T KNOW HOW -- >> Braude: BUT YOU'RE THE RULES COMMITTEE CHAIR.

CAN YOU DESIGN LEGISLATION IN THESE AREAS IN A WAY THAT THEY ARE DIRECTED TO THE INDIVIDUALS AFFECTED, AND CAN'T BE VETOED AND SENT BACK BY GOVERNORS WHO ARE TRYING TO DO SOME POLITICAL GRANDSTANDING?

>> WELL YOU KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS I COULD DO IN THE RULES COMMITTEE AND THINGS WE HAVE TRIED TO DO IN THE RULES COMMITTEE.

UNFORTUNATELY, I NEED 60 VOTES IN THE SENATE TO DO ANYTHING AND THAT IS ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO GET RID OF THIS FILIBUSTER.

BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, GOVERNMENT CAN HELP DURING THIS ECONOMIC CRISIS AND PROVIDE RELIEF ESPECIALLY TO THE MOST VULNERABLE.

FOOD PRICES ARE UP.

HUNGER IS UP AND WE NEED TO DO MUCH MORE.

I SHOULD JUST ADD.

I THINK WE ARE VERY CLOSE TO GETTING A COMMITMENT FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO DEVELOP A HOLISTIC PLAN TO DEAL WITH FOOD INSECURITY AND NUTRITION INSECURITY IN THIS COUNTRY BY I THINK WE'RE GOING TO FINALLY GET THEM TO AGREE AND DOING A WHITE HOUSE CONFERENCE ON NUTRITION FOOD AND HUNGER.

WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE OF THOSE IN 54 YEARS AND WHEN WE DID DID IT, THE W. >>> C POLICEMAN, SNAP PROGRAM CAME OUT OF IT.

TO GET EVERYBODY TOGETHER TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN END HUNGER IN THE COUNTRY.

THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, I THINK THIS MAY BE A WAY TO FOCUS ATTENTION ON THIS ISSUE AT LONG LAST.

>> Braude: HOPE IT HAPPENS, CONGRESSMAN GOOD TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> BE SAFE.

>> Braude: YOU TOO.

THE NEXT MAJOR HURDLE IN THE RACE FOR THE NEXT GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS IS JUST ABOUT A MONTH AWAY: THE MASSACHUSETTS REPUBLICAN CONVENTION.

AND AMONG THOSE VYING FOR THE JOB IS BUSINESSMAN CHRIS DOUGHTY, WHO SPENT 30-PLUS YEARS BUILDING AND GROWING A METAL MANUFACTURING COMPANY, BEFORE DIVING INTO HIS FIRST RUN FOR OFFICE EARLIER THIS YEAR.

HE JOINS ME NOW.

CHRIS A PLEASURE TO MEET YOU.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> JIM THANKS SO MUCH.

>> Braude: WHY DO YOU WANT THIS JOB, WHY ARE YOU QUALIFIED?

>> I WANT TO MAKE THIS STATE MORE AFFORDABLE.

I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 30 YEARS.

I'VE HEARD IT FROM CITIZENS -- FROM EMPLOYEES IN MY OWN COMPANY, I'VE HEARD FROM IT THOSE I WORK WITH IN MY COMMUNITY AND IT'S JUST BECOME SO EXPENSIVE TO LIVE HERE AND ALSO FOR OUR BUSINESSES.

>> Braude: YOU ACKNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE NO POLITICAL EXPERIENCE, A TON OF BUSINESS EXPERIENCE.

IF YOU SAY, SOMEONE WHO SAYS I HAVE NO BUSINESS EXPERIENCE WOULD YOU CONSIDER HIM OR HER FOR THAT JOB?

>> YEAH YOU KNOW WHEN I LOOK AT THE JOB DESCRIPTION OF A GOVERNOR I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR 30 YEARS.

BUILDING TEAMS AND ORGANIZING AND PROBLEM SOLVING, BUDGET, COMPLEX BUDGET ISSUES.

I THINK THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A GOVERNOR ARE VERY SIMILAR TO RUNNING AN ENTERPRISE LIKE MINE.

>> Braude: SO THE MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS AT LEETS IN MY 35 -- LEETS IN LEAST IN MY 35 PLUS YEARS IN MASSACHUSETTS ARE SELF DESCRIBED CONSERVATIVES AND LIBERALS.

WOULD YOU EXPLAIN YOURSELF THAT WAY?

>> I WOULD, I WORRY ABOUT FRAUD AND WASTE, AND MAKE SURE WE GET THE MOST DOLLAR THAT OUR CITIZENS PAY FOR THEIR TAXES.

>> Braude: SOCIAL LIBERAL, DO YOU THINK THAT FITS YOU TOO?

>> I THINK I'M A MODERATE MAN, COMMON SENSE, I REALIZE THAT EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENTLY LIFE EXPERIENCES AND WOULD I APPROACH THE JOB WITH THAT PERSPECTIVE.

>> Braude: AM I NOT RIGHT THAT YOUR POSITION ON ABORTION IS ONLY EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE AND INCEST IS THAT NOT WHERE YOU ARE?

>> I'M PROLIFE BUT I ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION, I DON'T HAVE ANY SEQUENTIAL OR INTEREST TO MAKE CHANGES TO IT.

>> Braude: WHEN YOU WERE GOVERNOR WHEN CHARLIE BAKER HAD THE DOE ACT, WOULD YOU HAVE VETOED THE DOE ACT?

>> YEAH YOU KNOW, IT -- THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES WHERE THE ACCIDENTS INTEREST AND WHAT THE CITIZENS WANT, I THINK THE GOVERNOR NEEDS TO REFLECT WHAT OUR CITIZENS WOULD LIKE.

I THINK WHAT THEY ENDED UP DOING BY PUTTING THROUGH VETO ENDED UP BEING ADDED INTO THE COSTITUTION IS NOW SET IN OUR STATE.

>> Braude: WELL, IT IS NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE, IT IS A STATUTE.

LET ME BE CLEAR WOULD YOU HAVE VETOED THAT EXPANSION OF RATES LIKE GOVERNOR BAKER DID?

>> I WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED GOVERNOR BAKER ON THAT.

JBD TO BE CLEAR YOU WOULD OPPOSE ANY EXPANSION OF ABORTION RIGHTS, LET ME BE CLEAR.

>> YES I WOULD VOTE FOR THAT.

>> Braude: YOU VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP IN 2020, WHY?

>> I THOUGHT HITS POLICIES BEGAN TO MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME.

I MENTIONED THE CHINESE TRADE ACT ISSUES, I WAS GRATEFUL THAT SOMEONE EVENTUALLY STOOD UP TO THE CHINESE AND SAID HEY WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE A FAIRFIELD FOR US TO PLAY ON.

>> Braude: I THINK IT WAS ON CHANNEL 5 YOU SAID RECENTLY YOU HAD ASKED IF YOU WOULD VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP SHOULD HE BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE IN 2024, YOU SAID, TYPICALLY I ALWAYS VOTE ALONG PARTY LINES.

WOULD YOU VOTE FOR A MAN IMPEACHED TWICE, A MAN IN CALIFORNIA A COUP IN THEORY, A GUY WHO HAS BEEN CREDIBLY CHARGED OR ACCUSED OF LEADING AN INSURRECTION.

YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH HAVING THAT MAN BE IF THE OF THE UNITED STATES AGAIN?

>> WELL AS I SAID BEFORE HISTORICALLY AND TYPICALLY I VOTE ALONG PARTY LINES.

THAT'S BEEN TYPICAL FOR ME.

>> Braude: BUT YOU VOTED FOR HILARY CLINTON IN 2016, SHE'S NOT A REPUBLICAN.

>> I TRY VOTE AS MUCH AS I CAN, WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP FIRST CAME ON THE SCENE HIS TONE WAS A LITTLE HARSH FOR ME, A LITTLE DIFFICULT FOR ME TO GET MY MIND AROUND.

>> Braude: AGAIN IF I MAY JUST BRIEFLY CHRIS, HE -- THE EVIDENCE IS MOUNTING THAT HE LED AN INSURRECTION, HE CONTINUES TO LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ABOUT HOW THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN, THAT'S -- YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE DANGER TO DEMOCRACY OF ANOTHER TERM OF THAT INDIVIDUAL?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AS I'VE SAID MANY TIMES ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

THESE ARE NOT THE ISSUES I'M RUNNING ON.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SOME IMMEDIATE PROBLEMS IN OUR STATE THAT THE PRESS ASKS ME THESE QUESTIONS ALL THE TIME BUT I'M NOT CAMPAIGNING, THIS IS NOT THE ISSUES THE CITIZENS ARE TALKING ABOUT.

THE HIGH COST OF LIVING, I HEAR FROM BUSINESS PEOPLE EVERY DAY THEY ARE PLANNING TO LEAVE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO BE HERE.

THE HEART WRENCHING STORIES I HEAR OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, WE NEED TO PIVOT A BIT AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES.

AROUND THE KITCHEN TABLES PEOPLE ARE HURTING.

THEY JUST FINANCIALLY THEY ARE HURTING.

THE INFLATION IS OUT OF CONTROL, THE COST OF LIVING IN OUR STATE SO I HOPE THE PRESS BEGINS TO PIVOT AND SAY, THAT'S OLD HISTORY, A LONG TIME AGO.

>> Braude: IT'S NOT OLD HISTORY SUNS HE'S THINKING OF RUNNING IN 2024.

WHAT COULD YOU AS GOVERNOR DO ABOUT INFLATION IN MASSACHUSETTS?

>> NOT MUCH ON INFLATION BUT CERTAINLY RIGHT NOW WE HAVE WE'RE THE SECOND OR THIRD HIGHEST COST OF LIVING IN AMERICA.

FOR OUR BUSINESSES WE ARE THE MOST EXPENSIVE STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO OPERATE A BUSINESS.

HOW MANY MORE BUSINESSES CAN WE LOSE BEFORE WE ALL SAY HEY TIME OUT.

ALSO, I GENUINELY BELIEVE THAT THE NEXT GOVERNOR WILL HAVE TO GET US THROUGH A RECESSION AND IT COULD BE A VERY SERIOUS RECESSION AND I THINK WE HAVE TO GET OUR BALANCE SHEET IN ORDER, WE HAVE TO PAY DOWN OUR DEBT, WE HAVE TO GET READY FOR THAT AND WE HAVE TO KEEP THE BUSINESSES FROM LEAVING.

>> Braude: HOW WOULD YOU RATE GOVERNOR BAKER'S EIGHT YEARS IN OFFICE CHRIS?

>> I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO BUILD ON THE THINGS THAT WORKED, MY OWN PERSPECTIVE, OWN VIEW OF THE WORLD TO THE JOB.

I COME FROM THE MANUFACTURING WORLD, THE WORKING CLASS FAMILIES YOU KNOW AND I THINK I WOULD HAVE A REAL FOCUS ON WHAT DO WE DO FOR THOSE WORKING FAMILIES.

>> Braude: LET'S TALK ABOUT ONE SUBSET OF WORKING FAMILIES.

YOU CHOSE A RUNNING MATE WHO VOTED AGAINST AS A LEGISLATOR, AGAINST BANNING CONVERSION THERAPY WHICH I ASSUME PEOPLE KNOW IS A DISCREDITED DANGEROUS PROCEDURE, AN ATTEMPT TO CHANGE A PERSON'S SEXUAL GENDER IDENTITY.

WHY SHOULD THAT NOT CHANGE CHRIS?

>> I'M AGAINST CONVERSION THERAPY AND SO IS MY RUNNING MATE.

NEITHER OF US SUPPORT CONVERSION THERAPY.

THE REASON SHE OPPOSED THAT BILL IS BECAUSE THERE WAS SPECIFIC WORDING ON WHAT A THERAPIST SO TALK TO A PATIENT ABOUT AND SHE FELT THAT WAS AN OVERREACH THAT WE SHOULDN'T INTERJECT GOVERNMENT BETWEEN PATIENTS AND THAIMPLETS.

>> Braude: I UNDERSTANDING THAT CONCEPT BUT I LOOKED UP THIS AFTERNOON THE VOTE ON THAT MEASURE THAT SHE VOTED AGAINST WAS 147 TO 8 AND IN FACT THREE QUARTERS OF HER FELLOW REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR THE BAN.

SO IS THE NOTION THAT SHE SAW SOMETHING THAT 95% OF HER COLLEAGUES INCLUDING 75% OF HER REPUBLICANS, DIDN'T UNDERSTAND?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WAS HER RECORD.

SHE VOTED IT THAT WAY.

SHE EXPLAINED IT TO ME THAT WAY, THAT SHE WAS NOT SUPPORTIVE OF CONVERSION THERAPY.

BUT JUST DIDN'T LIKE THAT LANGUAGE BETWEEN THE THERAPIST AND A PATIENT.

AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT.

>> Braude: SO CHRIS WE HERE AT GBH HAVE INVITED YOU AND YOUR OPPONENT GEOFF DIEHL TO DEBATE PRIOR TO THE PRIMARY.

YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE PRECONVENTION AM I RIGHT?

AND BY THE WAY YOU HAVE ACCEPTED YOUR COLLEAGUE YOUR OPPONENT GEOFF DIEHL HAS NOT YET.

YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE PRECONVENTION IS THAT CORRECT?

>> I WOULD LIKE LOTS OF DEBATES.

I HAVE A VISION AND PLAN FOR OUR STATE THAT I THINK WILL REALLY RESONATE WITH THE VOTERS.

I WANT TO GET IT OUT.

I'D LIKE TO SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS.

I WANT TO TAKE OUR STATE, A SPECIFIC DIRECTION, AND I WANT THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEBATE IT AS OFTEN AS I CAN.

>> Braude: HERE IS WHAT GEOFF DIEHL'S CAMPAIGN MANAGER SAID IN RESPONSE TO YOUR DESIRE TO HAVE A DEBATE.

IN ORDER TO PROCEED PAST THAT SNORE HAS HE GATHERED THE REQUISITE NUMBER OF SIGNATURES TO MAKE THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER SO THE DISCUSSION OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARY DEBATES IS PREMATURE.

ARE YOU ABLE TO SAY NOW THAT YOU HAVE THE SUPPORT OF 15% OF THE DELEGATES AND YOU HAVE THE 10,000 SIGNATURES NECESSARY TO QUALIFY FOR THE BALLOT IN THE FALL?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'LL BE FINE ON SIGNATURES.

WE EVERY DAY WE'RE CALLING DELEGATES TRYING TO GET TO OUR 15%.

I'M VERY HOPEFUL AND WE'RE WORKING HARD.

>> Braude: ARE CHRIS DOUGHTY, IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU, I HOPE THERE'S A DEGAIT HERE IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

CHRIS GOOD TO MEET YOU, BYE.

>> THANK YOU.

YOU CAN FIND OUR PAST INTERVIEWS WITH THE OTHER CANDIDATES FOR MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: REPUBLICAN GEOFF DIEHL AND DEMOCRATS SONIA CHANG-DIAZ AND MAURA HEALEY, ONLINE AT greaterboston.org.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

I'LL TALK TO THE NEPHEW OF ROBINSON LALIN, THE MAN WHO WAS KILLED AFTER HIS ARM GOT STUCK IN THE DOOR OF A RED LINE TRAIN LAST WEEK.

PLUS, THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS BEHIND THE DISTURBING, BUT IMPORTANT NEW "WASHINGTON POST" SERIES "BROKEN DOORS," ON THE DANGERS OF NO-KNOCK WARRANTS, THE LOW BAR TO GET THEM, AND THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN RAIDS GO WRONG.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (UPBEAT MUSIC) >> HEY, FOLKS.

TODAY WE'RE IN COPLEY SQUARE IN DOWNTOWN BOSTON.

USUALLY I'M THE GUY WHO ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS BUT TODAY, YOU ARE GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE UNWRITTEN RULES AND QUIRKS OF LIFE IN BOSTON.

>> NO RESPECTABLE BOSTONIAN CALLS IT BEANTOWN.

>> SOME PEOPLE CALL US THE "617" BECAUSE 617 IS THE BOSTON AREA CODE.

>> YEAH, THE BEAN.

>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'VE HEARD IT AS, THE BEAN.

>> BOSTON, THE BEAN.

BAKED BEANS, I DON'T KNOW.

>> WHEN I SEE THE MAILMAN HE WEARS SHORTS.

YOU KNOW?

(LAUGHS) AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE WEAR SHORTS, I GUESS IT'S A FAD.

>> I NEVER COULD GET INTO SHORTS IN THE WINTER, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME BOSTONIANS THAT CAN DO THAT.

>> SHOW US IF YOU CAN HANG, IF YOU CAN HANDLE THE COLD >> I DEFINITELY RECOMMEND WEARING SHORTS.

>> THE STREETS AREN'T LIKE OTHER CITIES, LIKE HOW IT'S MORE GRID-LIKE.

OURS IS LITERALLY ALL OVER THE PLACE.

YOU COULD BE ON ONE STREET FOR A MINUTE AND THAT STREET WILL LITERALLY TURN INTO ANOTHER STREET AND YOU WON'T REALIZE IT.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF ONE WAYS.

THERE'S A LOT OF DEAD ENDS.

THERE'S A LOT OF CUL-DE-SACS.

>> DON'T DRIVE YOUR CAR FROM PLACE TO PLACE, IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

>> WHY IS THAT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, YOU CAN'T GET PARKING, EVEN IF YOU WANTED IT WHERE YOU WANT IT.

AND SECONDLY, YOU'RE GOING TO BE FORCED TO SPEND WHAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER A MORTGAGE FOR YOUR HOUSE TO GET A PARKING SPACE.

>> I HAVE BEEN USING THE T, BUT IT'S SUPER SIMPLE FOR ME.

IT'S REALLY EASY.

IT GETS ME WHERE I'M GOING PRETTY FAST.

>> THE T IS FRUSTRATING.

IT'S GOING TAKE YOU ABOUT AN HOUR TO GET ANYWHERE ON IT.

IT'S GOING TAKE YOU A WHILE SO BE PATIENT, RELAX BRING A BOOK.

>> I FELT LIKE THIS IS A PRETTY ACCESSIBLE CITY BY FOOT.

(CAR HONKING) >> THERE'S SO MANY TIMES WHERE I'VE ALMOST RAN PEOPLE OVER FOR JAYWALKING AND THEN WE DO IT SO... WHO WANTS TO GO FROM CORNER TO CORNER TO CROSS THE STREET?

IF I SEE THAT IT'S CLEAR I JAYWALK.

>> ONE THING THEY DON'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, IRON DON'T CRY.

>> JAYWALKING'S PART OF OUR REVOLUTIONARY SPIRIT.

THAT'S HOW WE KEEP IT ALIVE.

>> I'M VERY GOOD.

PERSONALLY, I'M VERY GOOD AT IT.

I HAVEN'T LOST ANYBODY NOW IN THREE WEEKS.

>> WELL, THERE YOU HAVE IT.

DON'T FORGET TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE, AND LET ME KNOW WHAT UNWRITTEN RULES OF BOSTON YOU LIVE BY, OR LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU'RE CURIOUS ABOUT.

BECAUSE HEY, I MIGHT JUST LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

>> THE CURIOSITY DESK IS SPONSORED BY EMERSON COLLEGE.

INSPIRING CURIOSITY AND CREATIVE EXPRESSION IN ALL OF US.