>> FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO CAPITOL JOURNAL.

THERE'S A LOT TO COVER FROM A BUSY WEEK IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, BUT FIRST LET'S REVIEW THE BIG NEWS ON THE ELECTION FRONT.

VOTERS IN ALABAMA'S NEWLY-REDRAWN 2ND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT HAVE CHOSEN THEIR NOMINEES FOR THE NOVEMBER GENERAL ELECTION.

IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY RUNOFF, IT WAS POLITICAL NEWCOMER CAROLEENE DOBSON DEFEATING FORMER STATE SEN. DICK BREWBAKER 58 PERCENT TO 42 PERCENT.

SHE'LL BE THE GOP NOMINEE ON THE BALLOT IN NOVEMBER.

IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY RUNOFF, IT WAS FORMER DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICIAL SHOMARI FIGURES DEFEATING STATE REPRESENTATIVE ANTHONY DANIELS 61 PERCENT TO 39 PERCENT.

AND HE'LL BE THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

THIS SETS UP AN INTERESTING RACE IN NOVEMBER THAT WILL BE THE FIRST TRULY COMPETITIVE GENERAL ELECTION FOR CONGRESS SINCE 2010.

ONE INTERESTING THING TO NOTE IS THE VOTE TOTALS.

BACK IN THE MARCH 5TH PRIMARY, ABOUT THE SAME NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN VOTERS TURNING OUT THAN DEMOCRATIC VOTERS.

IN THIS RUNOFF, DEMOCRATS OUTPACED REPUBLICANS BY MORE THAN 10,000 VOTES.

THAT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE VOTER ENTHUSIASM AND TURNOUT ARE LIKELY TO BE BIG FACTORS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

BACK HERE TO THE STATE HOUSE, WHERE THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE MET THIS WEEK FOR THE 22ND AND 23RD LEGISLATIVE DAYS.

THAT LEAVES US WITH SEVEN MORE POSSIBLE DAYS REMAINING THAT WILL BE SPREAD OUT OVER THE NEXT THREE WEEK.

WE'LL START OUR COVERAGE IN THE HOUSE, WHICH TOOK UP THE EDUCATION BUDGET AND SEVERAL WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT BILLS.

CAPITOL JOURNAL'S RANDY SCOTT HAS THE STORY.

>> THE ALABAMA STATE CONSTITUTION GIVES LAWMAKERS ONE MAIN TACKS TO HANDLE -- PASSING THE EDUCATION AND GENERAL FUND BUDGETS.

THE HOUSE STARTED ON ONE OF THOSE JOBS TUESDAY BY DEBATING THE STATE'S EDUCATION SPENDING PLAN.

>> THE BUDGET IS INCREASING BY $550 MILLION FROM 8.8 BILLION TO 9.35 BILLION, WHICH IS AN INCREASE OF 6.25%.

THIS IS THE MAXIMUM ALOUD BY THE SECONDARY CAP CALCULATION ADOPTED BY THE LEGISLATURE LAST YEAR.

IN ADDITION TODAY WE PASSED A $1 BILLION ADVANCEMENT IN TECHNOLOGY FUND RELEASE AND 651 MILLION OF SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION.

>> HOUSE BILL 145 IS APPROVED.

MORE WORK TOWARD THE STATE WORKFORCE IMPROVEMENT PLAN ALSO APPEARS BEFORE LAWMAKERS.

HOUSE BILL 346 SEEKS TO HELP WORKERS BY STARTING A TAX CREDIT FOR HOUSING TO HELP WITH THE COST OF LIVING.

>> SO, IN GENERAL, THIS BILL CREATES A STATE WORKFORCE HOUSING TAX CREDIT THAT COMPLEMENTS AN EXISTING FEDERAL PROGRAM.

>> WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE REACHED OUT TO ME, THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE FINDING THEMSELVES HOMELESS.

AND IF WE DON'T FIND A WAY, BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE HOUSES AVAILABLE WILL NOT ACCEPT THEM, HOW DO WE PREVENT THAT SAME TYPE OF THING HAPPENING TO THIS GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS?

YOU TALK ABOUT THE MOTHER WHO HAS CHILDREN AND WANTS TO GO BACK TO WORK.

WELL, WHAT ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY WORKING, STRUGGLING, THEY HAVE BEEN IN HOUSING, THEY GET THAT VOUCHER FOR HOUSING, BUT THERE'S NO RESOURCES, NO ADDITIONAL RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR THEM.

>> WELL, THAT IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF HOUSING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, THAT WE NEED.

>> AND, SO, YOU THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO TAKE -- THIS IS GOING TO CLOSE THAT GAP, YOU BELIEVE?

>> WELL, IT CAN BE A PIECE OF THE ANSWER.

>> HOUSE BILL 346 IS APPROVED.

AT THE STATE HOUSE, RANDY SCOTT, "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> I'LL SPEAK WITH CHAIRMAN GARRETT MORE ABOUT THE BUDGET LATER IN THE SHOW.

THAT HOUSING TAX CREDIT BILL WAS ONE OF SEVERAL BILLS THE HOUSE PASSED THIS WEEK INTENDING TO REMOVE BARRIERS TO THE WORKFORCE AND ENCOURAGE MORE ALABAMIANS TO PURSUE AVAILABLE JOBS.

ALSO PASSING WAS HOUSE BILL 358, THE CHILDCARE TAX CREDIT FROM FROM REPRESENTATIVE ANTHONY DANIELS.

IT WOULD INCENTIVIZE EMPLOYERS TO FUND CHILDCARE OPTIONS FOR THEIR WORKERS.

IT ALSO INCENTIVE CHILD CARE PROVIDERS TO EXPAND ACCESS AND IMPROVE, ALL TO HELP REMOVE AFFORDABLE CHILDCARE AS A BARRIER TO THE WORKFORCE.

SENATE BILL 247 THE WORKFORCE TRANSFORMATION ACT.

THIS WOULD CONSOLIDATE THE STATE'S SOMETIMES DUPLICATIVE WORKFORCE DEPARTMENTS INTO ONE AGENCY WITH A CABINET LEVEL DIRECTOR.

SENATE BILL 325, THE ALABAMA GROWTH ALLIANCE ACT.

THIS WOULD ESTABLISH A PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP FOCUSED ON THE STATE'S LONG-TERM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS.

AND SENATE BILL 253, THE CAREER PATHWAYS ACT.

THIS WOULD ENCOURAGE ALABAMA STUDENTS TO PURSUE TRADES AND ALIGN INSTRUCTION TO SUIT THEIR CAREER PATH.

ANOTHER WEEK, ANOTHER UPDATE ON THE GAMBLING ISSUE.

THE SENATE THIS WEEK AGREED TO A CONFERENCE COMMITTEE WITH MEMBERS FROM BOTH CHAMBERS TO WORK OUT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE VASTLY DIFFERENT GAMBLING BILLS PASSED BY THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

CAPITOL JOURNAL'S JEFF SANDERS HAS MORE.

>> TRYING TO MAKE A PREDICTION ABOUT THE FUTURE OF GAMBLING IN THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE IS OFTEN A GAMBLE IN ITSELF.

>> YOU KNOW, WHEN WE PASSED IT, WE PASS WITH 22 VOTES, AND THEN WHEN WE HAD THE QUESTION FOR THE CONFERENCE, WE HAD 19 VOTES, TWO OF THOSE WERE NEW.

SO WE LOST FIVE VOTES THAT WE'VE GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHY WE LOST THOSE.

>> SENATOR GREG ALBRITTON ON ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT LAYS AHEAD.

THE COMMITTEE IS MADE UP OF THREE MEMBERS FROM THE HOUSE AND THREE FROM THE SENATE.

BUT ON THE HOUSE VERSION FINDING A PATH TO COMPROMISE WILL BE CHALLENGING.

>> AS FAR AS THE WHAC-A-MOLE GAME, YOU WIN THIS, LOSE THAT.

THE WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY OF WHICH EACH SIDE WANTS IS VERY, VERY SMALL.

>> WHILE ALBRITTON SEES A TOUGH ROAD AHEAD FOR COMPROMISE, SENATOR BOBBY SINGLETON FEELS MORE OPTIMISTIC.

>> I'M GOOD ABOUT WHAT COULD COME OUT.

I THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'VE NOT TALKED ABOUT STRATEGY OR TALKED ABOUT WHERE IT IS.

I THINK WE COULD LOOK AT WHAT BOTH BILLS SAID AND COMAL PAIR AND SEE WHAT THE COMPARISONS ARE.

>> THERE ARE LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES TO FIND A PATH, BUT TO GELT TO THAT PATH, WE'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE VOTES, AND RIGHT NOW I DON'T WANT SEE 63 IN THE HOUSE NOR DO I SEE 21 IN THE SENATE.

>> AND IF THOSE OBSTACLES WEREN'T ENOUGH FOR LAWMAKERS TO RESOLVE THE GAMBLING ISSUE, THERE'S ONE MORE, AND THAT'S THE FACT THAT THERE ARE ONLY SEVEN MEETING DAYS LEFT FOR THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," I'M JEFF SANDERS.

>> THE SENATE THIS WEEK TOOK UP LEGISLATION ON THE ISSUE OF UNIONIZATION.

SENATE BILL 231 FROM SENATOR ARTHUR ORR WOULD PROHIBIT ANY ECONOMIC INCENTIVE DOLLARS FROM GOING TO COMPANIES THAT VOLUNTARILY RECOGNIZE A UNION WITHOUT A VOTE AMONG WORKERS.

ORR SAID IT WOULD NOT IMPACT CURRENT COMPANIES WHO ALREADY HAVE A UNION, BUT IT WOULD SERVE AS A DETERRENT TO THOSE WHO'S WORKERS ARE CONSIDERING UNIONIZATION RIGHT NOW, NAMELY MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI.

MERCEDES WORKERS PLAN TO VOTE NEXT MONTH.

>> THERE'S AN ORGANIZATION EFFORT THAT GOT ENOUGH CARDS TO TRIGGER A VOTE.

THE COMPANY WOULD FORFEIT ITS STATE INCENTIVES IF IT DID NOT HAVE A PRIVATE BALLOT VOTE ON THE UNION ORGANIZATION.

IT DOESN'T PRECLUDE -- THE ORGANIZATION DOESN'T PRECLUDE THE UNION.

TO ME, SENATOR, IT WOULD GET THE EMPLOYEES TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A DECISION WITHOUT INFLUENCE FROM THE EMPLOYER -- BECAUSE IT COULD COME FROM THE EMPLOYER SAYING DON'T DO THAT, DON'T VOTE FOR THE UNION, YOU KNOW, AND TRYING TO SUPERVISORS, TRYING TO PUSH A NON-UNION VOTE, AND THE ORGANIZERS FOR THE UNION.

IT WOULD KEEP THEM AT BAY SOMEWHAT.

THEY CAN DISTRIBUTE LITERATURE, THEY CAN DO ALL THE CAMPAIGNING THEY WANT.

>> I HAVE BEEN HEARING FROM SOME UNIONS IS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP THAT ABILITY TO HAVE THAT NEGOTIATION WITH THE COMPANY WITHOUT THE VOTE.

JUST SO WE COME TO AN AGREEMENT AND WE COME UP AND COME TO TERMS AND THERE IS NO VOTE AND WE DECIDE TO COME WITH THE UNION.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND, SO, AND I THINK THEY FEEL THAT THIS BILL, SOME OF THEM FEEL THAT YOUR BILL WOULD TAKE THAT PART OF IT AWAY FROM THEM.

>> THAT BILL PASSED AND NOW GOES TO THE HOUSE.

THE SENATE ALSO DEBATED THE ISSUE OF VACCINES.

ALABAMA LAW ALREADY ALLOWS FOR RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS ON VACCINATION REQUIREMENTS FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL CHILDREN.

SENATE BILL 246 WOULD RESTRICT PUBLIC HEALTH ENTITIES FROM ASKING PRYING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NATURE OF RELIGIOUS OBJECTIONS TO VACCINES.

THE BILL GENERATED PLENTY OF QUESTIONS ITSELF ESPECIALLY FROM D.M.S WHO WORRIED THE LEGISLATION MIGHT ADVERSELY IMPACT PUBLIC HEALTH IN SCHOOLS.

>> PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT -- AND NOT JUST IN MY AREA, IT COMES FROM VARIOUS AREAS IN THE STATE, WHERE SOMETIMES IT TAKES QUITE A BIT OF TIME WAITING IN THE WAITING ROOM TO GET THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL TO GIVE YOU THE EXEMPTION, BUT ALSO SOME MORE AGGRESSIVE INDIVIDUALS IN THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT INTERROGATING INDIVIDUALS ABOUT THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

>> BECAUSE IT'S NICE MAKING FOLKS FEEL FINE WHO DON'T WANT TO DO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET WITH, BUT IT AIN'T RIGHT TO THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO CATCH THESE DISEASES NEITHER.

WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE -- THESE ARE THE WORDS WE USED GROWING UP -- WE WORRIED ABOUT THE FOLKS YANG-YANGING, COMPLAINING AND DON'T WANT TO DO THIS, BUT NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE PEOPLE GETTING SICK.

>> IF YOU'RE UNVACCINATED, YOU SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT GOING TO SCHOOL, ACCORDING TO YOUR THEORY.

BUT IF YOU'RE VACCINATED, I MEAN -- >> THAT BILL ALSO PASSED AND NOW GOES TO THE HOUSE.

THE SENATE EDUCATION POLICY COMMITTEE THIS WEEK CONSIDERED LEGISLATION THAT WOULD ALLOW ATHLETIC COMPETITION BETWEEN THE ALABAMA HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION AND THE ALABAMA INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS ASSOCIATION.

AS THE LAW CURRENTLY STANDS, SCHOOLS IN DIFFERENT ASSOCIATIONS CAN'T PLAY EACH OTHER, EVEN IF THEY'RE IN THE SAME TOWN.

SENATE BILL 82 FROM SENATOR WILL BARFOOT WOULD CHANGE THAT.

>> THIS BILL IN ESSENCE IS WHAT I REFER TO AS AN INNER-PLAY BILL.

CURRENTLY, WE HAVE INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO PLAY ALABAMA HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION SCHOOLS THAT ARE RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD, WHILE, IN FACT, THOSE ALABAMA HIGH SCHOOL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION SAME SCHOOLS ACCOUNT TRAVEL TO MISSISSIPPI, GEORGIA OR OTHER CITIES TO PLAY OTHER SCHOOLS.

THIS IS TRULY A BILL TO HELP CHILDREN.

THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY, NOT A MANHATTAN, BUT RATHER AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE CHILDREN TO PLAY OTHER CHILDREN K-12, JUNIOR HIGH AND HIGH SCHOOL KIDS THAT ARE MOST LIKELY IN THE SAME COMMUNITY THAT THEY GO TO CHURCH WITH AND GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE ATHLETIC COMPETITIONS.

>> WE HAD NO BUSINESS GOING IN THERE AND TELLING THESE FOLKS THEY'VE GOT TO DO THIS OR THAT WHEN THEY'RE NOT A STATE AGENCY.

WE DON'T HAVE THEM IN THE BUDGET.

WE DON'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

SO WE SHOULDN'T BE MARRYING WITH THAT ORGANIZATION.

LEAVE THEM ALONE.

LEAVE THEM ALONE.

WE CAN'T MICRO MANAGE OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE THE POWER AND AUTHORITY TO DO SOMETHING.

>> THE COMMITTEE VOTE ON THAT BILL WAS A 3-3-1 STALEMATE MEANING THE BILL DOES NOT ADVANCE.

IT COULD COME BACK UP, THOUGH, AND THERE'S ALSO A COMPANION LEGISLATION MOVING IN THE HOUSE.

ALSO MOVING IN THE LEGISLATURE IS A BILL TO ADJUST ALABAMA'S ELECTION QUALIFICATION DEADLINE SO THAT PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN DOESN'T GET LEFT OFF THE NOVEMBER BALLOT.

THE ISSUE IS THAT THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION WON'T OFFICIALLY NOMINATE BIDEN UNTIL ALABAMA'S STATUTORY QUALIFICATION DEADLINE HAS PASSED.

BUT DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS SEEM TO ALL AGREE ON LEGISLATION THAT WOULD FIX THE PROBLEM, JUST AS THEY HAD TO DO BACK IN 2010 WHEN IT WAS PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AT RISK OF BEING LEFT OFF THE BALLOT.

>> I THINK THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

IT'S HIGHLY, YOU KNOW, IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE STATE OF ALABAMA TO LEAVE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OFF.

IF IT WAS JUST A CANDIDATE OR SOMETHING, BUT THE SITTING PRESIDENT, AND I DON'T THINK THE STATE OF ALABAMA WANTS THAT EMBARRASSMENT.

BOTH PARTIES HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE THIS HAPPENS.

>> BIG NEWS THIS WEEK FOR ALABAMA'S COAST AND ALL THOSE WHO VISIT THE BALDWIN COUNTY BEACHES.

GOVERNOR KAY IVEY ANNOUNCED THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AGREED TO PURCHASE THE FOLEY BEACH IMPRESS TOLL BRIDGE IN ORANGE BEACH.

>> THAT'S GREAT TO HAVE TWO BRIDGES GOING ON AND OFF OF THE ISLAND.

I STILL THINK THERE ARE CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE ABOUT HOW THEY FLOW EXACTLY.

YOU KNOW, MY MAYORS DOWN THERE UNDERSTAND THE UNIQUE TRAFFIC SITUATION WE HAVE WITH UNIQUE VISITORS COMING IN AND OFF THE ISLAND EVERY YEAR AND ABOUT 100,000 OFF THE HIGH WEEKENDS.

WE MOVE THEM EVERY WEEKEND.

IT'S A KEY AREA FOR ALABAMA TOURISM AND ALABAMA REVENUE, THE REVENUE FOR THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

SO THRILLED TO SEE THE INVESTMENT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING CONNECTS THE RIGHT WAY.

ALL THE IS ARE NOT DOTTED AND TS ARE NOT CROSSED YET BUT STILL A GOOD DAY.

>> IN H THE LAST FEW YEARS WE'VE REPORTED ON THE EFFORT TO BOOST INNOVATION, PART OF A VISION TO RECRUIT ENTREPRENEURS TO THE STATE.

YOU MAY REMEMBER OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" EPISODE FROM INNOVATE ALABAMA IN BIRMINGHAM.

THIS WEEK IT WAS INNOVATION DAY IN THE CAPITOL CITY AS STATE LAWMAKERS GATHERED WITH DEVELOPERS AND LEADERS FROM THE TECH INDUSTRY, FEATURED NATURAL VENTURE CAPITAL FIRM GENERATOR INVESTING IN ALABAMA BECAUSE OF INNOVATE ALABAMA AND THE GROW ENTREPRENEURIAL ECOSYSTEM.

IT'S BROUGHT MORE THAN 150 COMPANIES INTO THE STATE.

>> ONE OF THE EXCITING THINGS WE'RE SEEING FROM THIS RECEPTION OF GENERATOR IS HOW THE STATE IS COMING TOGETHER TO CELEBRATE ENTREPRENEURSHIP AND INNOVATION.

THERE ARE MANY EXCITING THINGS AS THE LEGISLATURE IS COMING TOGETHER TO EMBRACE AND BRINGING TOGETHER PROGRAMS THAT ALLOW FOR PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE STATE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE DREAM COME TRUE OF STARTING AN IDEA AND BRINGING THAT INTO A COMPANY AND RUNNING THROUGH A PROGRAM LIKE GENERATORS PROGRAMS ACROSS THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S REALLY EXCITING IS TO WATCH HOW RECEPTIVE OUR LEGISLATORS ARE TO THE IDEA OF INNOVATION AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP.

AS THE MEETINGS WERE HAPPENING THROUGHOUT THE DAY TODAY, THE FEEDBACK OUR FOUNDERS WERE GETTING, OUR PROGRAM MANAGERS WERE GETTING, IT WAS JUST ECSTATIC ABOUT WHAT KIND OF IMPACT THEY'RE SEEING ALREADY, AND WE'RE ONLY JUST A FEW YEARS INTO THIS GREAT WORK AROUND INNOVATION AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP THROUGH INNOVATE ALABAMA AND THE PARTNERSHIP WITH OUR HOUSE AND SENATE HERE IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

>> I AM JUST SO EXCITED THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAD SO MANY INDIVIDUALS TO SHOW UP AND SUPPORT.

WHAT THIS MEANS IS WE ARE GROWING IN TERMS OF COLLABORATION AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GETTING INVOLVED, PEOPLE IN ENTITIES THAT ARE GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS INNOVATION SPACE TO REALLY HELP ELEVATE AND MOVE ALABAMA FORWARD.

TWO YEARS INTO THIS SPACE, THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS INNOVATION IS SUCH A BIG WORD.

SO REALLY US IDENTIFYING WHAT DOES INNOVATION MEAN FOR NOT ONLY STATE BUT FOR ALABAMA POWER?

HOW DO WE ADD SCOPE OF RESPONSIBILITY AROUND THE KNOW THAT WE ARE EFFECTIVELY ADDING VALUE WHERE VALUE NEEDS TO BE HAD OR MADE?

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, IN THE TWO YEARS, IT HAS BEEN GREAT WORK AND LEARNING, BUT IT'S A CHALLENGE BUT A GOOD CHALLENGE.

IT'S A GOOD CHALLENGE THAT NEEDS TO BE HAD, AND I'VE SEEN SO MUCH TREMENDOUS GROWTH OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS IN TERMS OF HOW MANY PEOPLE, AGAIN, HAVE BEEN INVOLVED AND ENGAGED IN INNOVATION AND REALLY FOCUS ON THE TECH ECOSYSTEM ACROSS THE ENTIRE STATE.

>> COMING UP AFTER THE BREAK, I'LL SIT DOWN WITH HOUSE EDUCATION BUDGET COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN DANNY GARRETT TO TALK IN DETAIL ABOUT THE EDUCATION BUDGET AND THE WORKFORCE BILLS MOVING IN THE LEGISLATURE.

AFTER THAT, REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS ENGLAND WILL JOIN ME FOR A DISCUSSION OF HIS CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM BILLS AND THE SITUATION FACING ALABAMA'S PRISONS.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> WELCOME BACK TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

JOINING ME NEXT IS STATE REPRESENTATIVE DANNY GARRETT, CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE EDUCATION BUDGET COMMITTEE.

MR. CHAIRMAN, THANKS FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'VE HAD A BUSY WEEK.

>> VERY BUSY.

>> A BUSY SESSION.

YOU CHAIR THE EDUCATION BUDGET COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE, THEY WERE ON THE FLOOR THIS WEEK.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST BUDGET WE'VE EVER SEEN, COMES WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT BILLS AND LINE ITEMS.

TALK ABOUT JUST IN GENERAL HOW Y'ALL WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS BECAUSE IT STARTED IN YOUR COMMITTEE THIS YEAR, AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT TOOK TO GET IT TO THE HOUSE FLOOR AND GET IT PASSED ALMOST UNANIMOUSLY.

>> IT'S THE LARGEST EDUCATION BUDGET WE'VE EVER HAD.

I THINK IT'S THE SIXTH CONNECTIVE YEAR OF INCREASING EDUCATION BUDGETS, $9.3 BILLION.

WE ALLOCATED $1 BILLION IN ADVANCEMENT TECHNOLOGY FUNDS ON TOP OF THAT, AND THEN APPROPRIATED ANOTHER $651 MILLION ON TOP OF THAT IN SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS.

SO, ALTOGETHER, IT'S A BIG NUMBER.

BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING IS BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE HAVE BEEN BUDGETING, WE'VE HAD SOME VERY CONSERVATIVE BUDGETING PROCESSES THAT WE'VE PUT IN PLACE.

WE ADDED A SECONDARY CAP LAST YEAR THAT LIMITS THE BUDGET GROWTH.

WE HAVE A CALCULATION NOW THAT SAYS WHAT WE CAN SPEND BASED ON REVENUE RECEIPTS, BUT NOW WE HAVE A CAP THAT LIMITS THE BUDGET GROWTH IMPLEMENT PER YEAR.

LAST YEAR THE BUDGET GREW 6.35%.

THIS YEAR 5.2% AND NEXT YEAR 6%.

IT LIMITS OUR BUDGETS GROWTH AND ANY RECEIPTS OVER THAT THERE'S A WATERFALL EFFECT OF WHAT GOES INTO THE ROLLING RESERVE BUDGET FUND, ADVANCEMENT AND TECHNOLOGY, SUPPLEMENTAL, WHAT'S AVAILABLE FOR SUPPLEMENTAL, BUT, ALSO, BEFORE THAT, THE NEW EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT WE SET UP A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO THAT THE LEGISLATURE CAN ACCESS APART FROM PRORATION.

EVEN THOUGH WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY AND PEOPLE ARE WONDERING IF WE'VE LOST OUR MINDS, WE'VE SPENT SO MUCH, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN THE BUDGET IS PASSED, WE'LL HAVE IN THE ROLLING RESERVE ACCOUNT $794 MILLION.

WE WILL HAVE $1.5 BILLION IN ADVANCEMENT AND TECHNOLOGY FUND.

WE'LL HAVE $1 BILLION IN THE EDUCATION SAVINGS ACCOUNT FUND.

AND IN THE RAINY DAY ACCOUNT WE'LL HAVE THROUGH ACCESS OF BORROWING $6.7 MILLION.

WE HAVE PLANS AND IDEAS FOR HOW THAT GOES BUT THE POINT IS WE'VE NOT SPENT ALL THE MONEY FROM THE COVID FEDERAL MONEY THAT CAME IN.

WE'VE RESPONSIBLY GROWN THE BUDGET, ABLE TO SUSTAIN IT AND IN A GOOD SPOT WITH RESPECT TO RESERVES.

>> I GUESS THE THINKING IS, YEAH, RECEIPTS ARE UP, ECONOMIES, REVENUES ARE UP, BUT NOT ALWAYS THAT WAY.

>> THEY ARE UP BUT ARE STARTING TO DIP.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE TAKING THESE MEASURES.

>> 2013, 2014 WERE REALLY TOUGH BUDGET YEARS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT CUT.

SO YOU'RE THINKING THE RESERVES, THE CONSERVATIVE BUDGETING COULD HELP OUT ON A RAINY DAY.

>> RAINY DAY OR OTHER LONG-TERM INITIATIVES TO IMPROVE EDUCATION.

WE JUST ADOPTED SCHOOL CHOICE, AND WE DID NOT HIT THIS EDUCATION BUDGET, WE ARE ALLOWING FOR THE FUNDING FOR THAT THAT BEGINS IN A COUPLE OF YEARS THROUGH A DIFFERENT MECHANISM, A SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATION, BUT, EVENTUALLY, IF THE SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAMS GROW, WE'LL NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT.

WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT BEING -- CATCHING UP WITH WHAT OTHER STATES ARE DOING AND CHANGING THE FUNDING FORMULA, THE WAY WE FUND EDUCATION.

RIGHT NOW, WE FUND BASICALLY UPON HEAD COUNT.

WE DON'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT SPECIFIC NEEDS OF THE SYSTEMS.

>> RIGHT.

>> A LOT CHANGED IN THE LAST 30 YEARS SINCE WE ADOPTED THE FORMULA.

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

A GROUP CAME OUT THIS WEEK, DIFFERENT EDUCATION ORGANIZATIONS SAYING IT'S TIME TO REFORM THE WAY WE ACTUALLY DO DISTRIBUTE EDUCATION DOLLARS.

ARE YOU A PART OF THAT CONVERSATION?

>> WELL, NOT NECESSARILY WITH THAT GROUP.

CHAIRMAN ORR AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT SINCE LAST YEAR AND SPEAKING PUBLICLY ABOUT IT.

THE WAY WE ALLOCATE FUNDING TODAY IS PRETTY MUCH ON HEADCOUNT.

YOU TAKE THE POT OF EDUCATION MONEY WE HAVE AVAILABLE AND ALLOCATE OR DISTRIBUTE IT TO THE SYSTEM BASED ON THE HEADS THEY HAVE.

IT'S NOT THE HEADS THEY HAVE TODAY, REALLY, IT'S WHAT THEY HAD TWO YEARS AGO AFTER LABOR DAY, SORT OF A SNAPSHOT IN TIME.

WHAT MOST STATES HAVE DONE IS TO LOOK AT EACH DISTRICT AND SYSTEM AND SCORE THAT BASED UPON NEEDS.

IF YOU HAVE A DISTRICT WITH A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF SPECIAL NEEDS OR ESL STUDENTS OR YOU'RE IN A HIGH POVERTY AREA, YOU HAVE TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS, THE STATE DOESN'T FUND ANY OF THAT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE PRETTY MUCH WE TAKE THE MONEY AND DIVIDE IT BY HEADCOUNT.

SO THIS WOULD BE A WAY TO LOOK AT THE SPECIFIC NEEDS.

IN THE BUDGET, WE DID STEP IN THE DIRECTION AND DO TARGETING FUNDING OF SPECIFIC PROGRAMS.

ULTIMATELY, THOUGH, IF YOU ADDRESS THE EDUCATION MODEL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU WOULD SCORE SYSTEMS AND FUND APPROPRIATELY, YOU WOULD ALSO NOT NECESSARILY LINE ITEM FUND EVERYTHING.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW, WE NOT ONLY GIVE YOU MONEY, WE SAY YOU MUST SPEND THIS AMOUNT ON TRANSPORTATION OR BUSES OR X.

>> SO IT'S NOT FLEXIBLE.

>> NOT FLEXIBLE.

THIS WOULD GIVE WITHIN PARAMETERS THE ACT FOR SYSTEMS TO TAKE THE MONEY THEY NEED BASED ON THE WAY THEY SCORE AND HAVE DISCRETION ON PUTTING THAT WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO.

IN THE SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET THIS YEAR $100 MILLION WAS TARGETED BY THE GOVERNOR FOR SAFETY.

WE REMOVED THAT EARMARK BUT INCREASED THE ANT MONEY OVER $300 MILLION BECAUSE SOME SYSTEMS DON'T NEED TO SPEND THE MONEY DIRECTLY ON SECURITY, MAYBE THEY'VE HAD THEIR NEEDS MET, OTHERS NEED IT.

SO RATHER THAN TELLING A SYSTEM YOU HAVE TO SPEND IT THIS WAY, YOU GIVE FLEXIBILITY.

IT'S A COMPLICATED PROCESS WITH A LOT OF WORK TO DO, BUT THERE ARE CERTAINLY SUPPORT FOR IT AMONG MANY CONSTITUENTS AND EDUCATION GROUPS AND, AGAIN, WE'VE ONE OF SIX STATES WHO HAVE NOT JUMPED ON THAT TRAIN.

AND, SO, WE'RE LOOKING TO SERIOUSLY STUDY THAT AND HOPEFULLY COME UP WITH SOMETHING IN THE NEAR FUTURE, BUT THAT WILL REQUIRE SOME FUNDING TO TRANSITION TO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE JUST EASY.

>> YEAH.

>> IT'S NOT A SEAMLESS TRANSITION.

I KNOW TENNESSEE DID SOMETHING SIMILAR A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.

THAT'S SOMETHING TO FOLLOW IN THE OFF SEASON.

SPECIFICALLY ON THESE EFFORTS THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS CHAMPIONED YOU SPECIFICALLY, LITERACY ACT, NUMERACY ACT.

I KEEP HEARING WHETHER IN COMMITTEE ON THE FLOOR I HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT TARGETING FUNDING, TO MAKE SURE THE LAWS YOU PASSED ARE BEING FUNDED AND ARE WORKING PROPERLY.

ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THE FUNDING THESE ARE FOR, THE LITERACY AND NUMERACY?

>> WE'RE FULLY FUNDING BOTH ACTS.

NUMERACY IS NEWER THAN LITERACY.

LITERACY HAS BEEN AROUND AND HAD DELAYS BECAUSE OF COVID.

THIS IS THE YEAR THE FIRST TIME WE RETAIN STUDENTS IN THIRD GRADE THAT HAVE NOT MET THE STANDARDS.

I HEAR IT COULD BE AS MUCH AS 25% OF THIRD GRADERS ACROSS THE STATE COULD BE RETAINED.

THAT WILL BE A SHOCK, BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR THAT AND THERE WILL BE SOME REMEDIATION PROGRAMS THROUGH THE SUMMER TO MAYBE CATCH PEOPLE UP, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG NUMBER, I THINK.

SO TO THAT POINT, WE ARE CONTINUING TO FUND THAT AND SEEING SOME IMPROVEMENTS AS IN THE LOWER IN THE PRE-K AND AS YOU MOVE ON UP TOWARD THIRD GRADE, BUT, ALSO, WE DID PUT A POT OF MONEY IN THE LINE ITEM THIS YEAR FOR -- TO START FUNDING READING INITIATIVES BEYOND THIRD GRADE FOR STRUGGLING READERS BEYOND THIRD GRADE.

SO YOU GET THIRD GRADE WHICH IS A SNAPSHOT BUT THEN WE'LL CONTINUE ON AND THOSE CHILDREN WILL CONTINUE TO NEED SUPPORT AND FOCUS AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING WE NEED IN THE BUDGET THIS TIME.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE HIGH EXPECTATIONS FOR ALL THOSE PROGRAMS AND WE'RE TARGETED FUNDING THESE PROGRAMS, FULLY FUNDING THOSE PROGRAMS AND HOPEFUL THE RESULTS WILL PAN OUT.

>> EVERYBODY WILL BE PAYING ATTENTION.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN BILLS TO DELAY FURTHER THE RETENTION THING.

SO, YEAH, IT MAY BE A WAKEUP CALL COME THE SUMMER.

>> RIGHT.

>> AS I MENTIONED, IT WAS ALMOST UNANIMOUS, YOU HAD ONE "NO" VOTE FROM THE NEWEST MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE MARILYN, SHE SAID SHE VOTED NO BECAUSE OF LIBRARY CUTS.

WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR THAT, THE CUT TO LIBRARIES?

>> I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE BUDGET LINE BY LINE, YOU WILL SEE WHAT THE PRIORITIES OF THE LEGISLATURE ARE.

I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE REALLY SUPPORT, THAT WE REALLY ADVOCATE AND WE WANT TO SUPPORT THOSE PROGRAMS.

THERE ARE OTHER AREAS THAT WE'RE MAYBE NOT AS -- WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT SOME THINGS.

AND I THINK WE'RE A COLLECTIVE BODY, SO I THINK THE FUNDING KIND OF REFLECTS THAT.

WITH RESPECT TO THE LIBRARY SERVICE, WE DIDN'T CUT WHAT GOES INTO THE LIBRARIES, THE LOCAL LIBRARIES, BUT WE DID REQUIRE THAT THEY FOLLOW AND ADOPT THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSED REGULATIONS WHICH ARE VERY COMMON' SENSE REGULATIONS JUST ADDING TO WHAT THEY ALREADY HAVE TO DO, THE IDEA THAT THE LOCAL LIBRARIES WOULD HAVE A POLICY SEGREGATING CHILDREN'S -- MATERIAL FOR CHILDREN BASED ON APPROPRIATE TOPICS AND AGE CATEGORIES AND ALSO IF THEY WERE GOING TO BE A MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION THAT THEY WOULD HAVE A PUBLIC MEETING AND LET THEIR PATRONS UNDERSTAND AND KNOW THEY'RE ADOPTING A POLICY TO FORMERLY AFFILIATE WITH THAT GROUP.

WHY IS THAT AN ISSUE FOR THE GOVERNOR AND US?

BECAUSE THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION ELECTED LAST YEAR A PERSON WHO'S AN AVOWED MARXIST, AND WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF THINGS AND DIRECTIVES COMING DOWN FROM THAT ORGANIZATION THAT ARE TROUBLING AND HAVE LANDED UP IN LIBRARIES.

IT HAS NOT BEEN EMBRACED INTENTIONALLY, IT JUST HAPPENED.

BUT IT'S A WAKEUP CALL.

WE BEGAN DISCUSSIONS WITH THE LIBRARY SERVICE IN THE SUMMER ABOUT OUR CONCERNS ON THAT AND TRIED TO GET MOVING ADDRESSING THE CONCERNS OF THE LEGISLATURE WHICH REPRESENT OUR CONSTITUENTS.

THEY ARE THE ONES FUNDING THE LIBRARIES.

WE ARE DISAPPOINTED WHERE THE PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE LANDED.

THEY NEVER PRESENTED A BUDGET AND NEVER CAME TO OUR BUDGET HEARINGS.

OUR DEAL IS YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED TO FUNDING JUST BECAUSE YOU EXIST.

WE DID CUT THEIR OPERATING BUDGET BUT WE DIRECTED THAT MONEY.

$250,000 OF THE CUT WENT TO THE DOLLY PARTON IMAGINATION LIBRARY AND PUTS BOOKS INTO HOMES OF UNPRIVILEGED CHILDREN.

THE OTHER WENT INTO A READING PROGRAM CALLED BETTER BASICS WHICH DOES READING INTERVENTION AND COACHING TO UNDERPRIVILEGED CHILDREN PRIMARILY THROUGH CENTRAL ALABAMA.

SO THAT OPERATING BUDGET MONEY DID GO ELSEWHERE BUT WENT TO VERY WORTHY PROGRAMS.

THE MONEY THAT WENT TO THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES WAS NOT DISTURBED.

ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS COMPLY WITH THE GOVERNOR'S ORDER WHICH SAYS EACH LOCAL BOARD SETS A POLICY WHICH WILL BE DIFFERENT BY DISTRICT, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A POLICY TO SEGREGATE THE MATERIAL FOR CHILDREN BECAUSE THAT'S BEEN A PROBLEM AND ISSUE AND YOU HAVE TO SAY IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE AFFILIATED WITH THIS NATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT HAS QUESTIONABLE, YOU KNOW, IDEAS, THAT YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST LET YOUR LOCAL FOLKS KNOW YOU'RE DOING THAT.

WE HAD PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE WHO WANTED TO DO A LOT MORE THAN WHAT WE DID.

BUT I THINK WE SENT THE MESSAGE.

WE'RE NOT ANTI-- THE LAST SEVEN YEARS, I HAVE INCREASED THE APL'S BUDGET EVERY YEAR.

THEY REALLY STEPPED UP DURING COVID AND DID A GREAT JOB OF OPENING THE LIBRARIES AND MAKING THEM AVAILABLE FOR KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL WHO NEED INTERNET ACCESS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE LEGISLATURE APPROPRIATES THE MONEY AND AS WE HAVE CONCERNS, WE NEED TO HAVE THOSE HEARD.

AGAIN, WE FULLY SUPPORT WHAT THEIR MISSION IS, WE FULLY SUPPORT THAT ORGANIZATION.

BUT THIS YEAR, WE JUST CHOSE TO GO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THIS BILL YOU AND SENATOR ORR ARE WORKING ON, TEACHERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

>> PEOPLE ARE CALLING IT, THE TEACHERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

>> WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS IF YOU HAVE A DISRUPTIVE STUDENT YOU'RE ABLE TO EXPEL THEM FROM THE CLASSROOM.

IS THAT THE RIGHT READING?

>> TEACHERS ARE NOW DOING MORE THAN WHAT THEY'RE SIGNED UP FOR.

WE HAVE ISSUES AND FEDERAL MONTHS AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT REQUIRE THEM TO DO MORE THAN TEACH.

IT'S GRADE SCHOOLING AND GRINDING, IT'S AFFECTING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO COME INTO THE PROFESSION, IT'S AFFECTING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO STAY IN THE PROFESSION.

WHAT WE'RE FINDING OFF TOO OFTEN IS BECAUSE OF THE ADMINISTRATIONS AND SCHOOL BOARDS AND SUPERINTENDENTS RIGHTLY SO IN SOME CASES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT LITIGATION IF YOU TAKE ACTION.

YOU HAVE STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM THAT ARE VERY DISRUPTIVE, MAY BE THREATENING TO THE TEACHER, OTHER STUDENTS.

IT'S MIND BOGGLING THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT GO ON.

ALL TOO OFTEN, WHAT HAPPENS IS THE ANSWER IS, WELL, LET THE KID COOL DOWN AND TAKE HIM BACK AND THIS HAPPENS.

NOT ONLY ARE THERE SITUATIONS THAT ARE ABUSIVE TO THE TEACHER AND TO OTHER STUDENTS, BUT IT DISRUPTS THE LEARNING FOR THE OTHER STUDENTS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT THIS BILL IS ABOUT IS A TEACHER SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ENDURE THAT AS PART OF AN ACCEPTED NORMAL ROUTINE.

SO IT SETS FORTH A POLICY SO YOU CAN'T JUST KICK A CHILD OUT TO HAVE THE CLASSROOM FOR NO VALID REASON, BUT IT SETS FORTH A PROCESS FOR IF YOU HAVE A CHILD THAT'S DISRUPTIVE AND REPEATEDLY AND INTENTIONALLY DOING CERTAIN THINGS, THEY WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, SENT TO THE PRINCIPAL BASICALLY LIKE IN THE OLD SCHOOL.

I MEAN -- >> THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS WHEN I WAS COMING UP.

>> RATHER THAN COOLING DOWN AND SENDING THEM BACK, THEY NEED TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE.

SO I THINK THE SCHOOL BOARDS AND SUPERINTENDENTS HAVE TO STEP UP AND PROACTIVE RATHER THAN REACTIVE ON THE ISSUE.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF COMMENTS AND INCORPORATE A LOT INTO THE BILL BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT RIDICULOUS, BUT IT'S NOT REASONABLE TO EXPECT TEACHERS TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH IN THE CLASSROOMS AND JUST SAY THAT'S PART OF YOUR JOB.

IT'S NOT.

>> SURE.

IS THIS ALSO PARTLY STEMMING FROM COVID, THOUGH?

ALABAMA DIDN'T HAVE AS LONG AS INTERRUPTION OF SCHOOL CLOSURES AS OTHER STATES BUT WE HAD SOME.

STUDENTS WERE REMOVED FROM SCHOOL SETTINGS FOR A WHILE.

IS THIS ALSO A PICTURE OF THE MENTAL HEALTH SITUATION IN OUR STATE?

MAYBE WE NEED MORE FOCUS IN CLASSROOMS FOR MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT FOR STUDENTS?

>> WELL, AND WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT IN THE BUDGET, AND THAT'S THE POINT, WE WANT TO PROVIDE THE MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE ASKING TEACHERS TO DO ALL THAT.

YOU HAVE TO BE MENTAL HEALTH, DISCIPLINE, TEACH, PAPERWORK.

>> A LOT TO ASK.

>> IT'S A LOT TO ASK, AND NOBODY WANTS TO SIGN UP FOR THAT AND STAY IN THAT PROFESSION.

SO IT'S REALLY MORE OF A COMMON-ACCEPTS WHAT'S REASONABLE, AND WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO A REASONABLE POINT.

I THINK WE CAN.

I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES WITH IT.

EVEN THOSE YESTERDAY WHO SPOKE IN OPPOSITION TO THE BILL ACKNOWLEDGED THE PROBLEM AND UNDERSTANDS SOMETHING MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I THINK IT'S MORE EASILY SOLVABLE THAN PEOPLE WANT TO THINK BUT RIGHT NOW PEOPLE ARE SO AFRAID OF LAWSUITS OR GETTING PUSHBACK AND, YOU KNOW, AT SOME POINT, IF WE WANT TO HAVE PUBLIC EDUCATION AND PEOPLE IN THE CLASSROOM TEACHING WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING.

IN THE BUDGET WE PROVIDED AUXILLARY TEACHERS AND A NUMBER OF SUPPORTS.

THIS GOES BACK TO THE SPECIAL NEEDS SITUATION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW TO FUND A SYSTEM, THIS IS AN ISSUE MORE THAN OTHERS.

BUT IT'S AN ISSUE THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

YOU CAN STAKE POOR SYSTEMS, AFFLUENT SYSTEMS, THIS BEHAVIORAL ISSUE, AND THE TEACHERS NEED MORE SUPPORT.

>> WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME, BUT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WORKFORCE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE OTHER BIG THING MOVING THIS WEEK.

YOU'VE GOT LEGISLATION, A BIG REALIGNMENT OF THE STATE'S WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND CAREER PATHWAYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

TALK ABOUT WORKFORCE AND WHY THIS HAS BEEN SUCH A PRIORITY AND REALLY WHAT YOUR REALIGNMENT BILL WOULD DO.

>> SO LABOR PARTICIPATION IN ALABAMA IS THE LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY.

THAT MEANS THAT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE OUT OF WORK WHO ARE NOT LOOKING FOR WORK, WE HAVE MORE THAN ANYBODY PERCENTAGE-WISE AND THAT'S LIMITING OUR ABILITY TO GROW ECONOMY, THE JOBS, WHAT KNOT.

SO WE'RE IN THE WORKFORCE PACKAGE ADDRESSING A LOT OF THE REASONS WHY THAT'S HAPPENING TRYING TO IMPROVE THE NUMBER.

57% LABOR PARTICIPATION NATIONAL AVERAGE IS 62%.

IF WE MOVE IT A PERCENT IT'S A TREMENDOUS IMPACT.

ALL OF THE BILLS ARE FOCUSED ON IMPROVING LABOR PARTICIPATION.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATES ARE LOW BUT THAT'S A FUNCTION OF PEOPLE OUT OF WORK LOOKING FOR WORK.

WHY ARE A LOT OUT OF WORK?

BUT A IF THEY DO BACK TO WORK, THEY LOSE A LOT OF BENEFITS.

THE BENEFITS CLIFF ISSUE.

WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT, THE CHILD TAX CREDITS.

WE'RE A FOOTBALL STATE.

IF YOU CAN IMAGINE HAVING A FOOTBALL TEAM AND HAVE TEN DIFFERENT OFFENSIVE COORDINATORS CALLING PLAYS THERE'S A LOT OF CONFUSION, YOU NEED SOMEBODY CALLING THE PLAYS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF WORKFORCE INITIATIVES BUT THEY'RE IN SILOS.

WE DON'T HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE STATEWIDE WORKFORCE PLAN.

IN A LOT OF CASES THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED WITH THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY THAT'S DOING HIRING.

SO THE INITIATIVES NEEDS TO ALIGN WITH THE NEEDS OF THE EMPLOYERS.

WITH THIS RECONSTRUCTION IT SETS UP A CABINET POSITION WORKFORCE, CONSOLIDATE SOME OF THE POSITIONS TOGETHER BUT ALL OF THE WORKFORCE COMES UNDER ONE POSITION.

THERE'S A STRUCTURE IN PLACE WHERE FROM THE BOTTOM UP WE'LL DEVELOP COMPREHENSIVE STATEWIDE WORKFORCE PLANS BUT, IN THE FUTURE, AS A BUDGET CHAIR, WHEN EVERYBODY COMES TO ME AND SAYS I HAVE THIS PROJECT IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT AND THE FIRST QUESTION I WILL ASK IS ARE YOU PART AFTER OF A PLAN?

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL SWIMMING THE RIGHT DIRECTION BECAUSE A LOT OF THE JOBS WE SHOULD BE TRAINING FOR DON'T EXIST TODAY.

SO IF WHAT WE'RE DOING IS LOOKING BACK, WE'RE NOT GOING TO GROW THAT PARTICIPATION DEAL.

OUR DEAL CONSOLIDATES A LOT OF THE INITIATIVES, MAKE SURE WE HAVE ONE PERSON DOING THE QUARTERBACK BUT A LOT OF CHECKS AND BALANCES THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEM THAT PROVIDE MORE TRANSPARENCY AND MAKE SURE WE'RE SPENDING OUR DOLLARS WELL.

>> INTERESTING.

WE'LL TRY TO AVOID CALLING IT A CZAR.

>> WE WILL NOT DO THAT.

[LAUGHTER] >> MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> WELCOME BACK TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

JOINING ME NEXT IS STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS ENGLAND FROM TUSCALOOSA.

MR. ENGLAND, THANKS FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'VE HAD A LOT OF LEGISLATION MOVING AROUND THIS LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

>> I WOULDN'T SAY EXACTLY MOVING.

>> SOME OF IT WAS.

>> YEAH.

>> BEFORE WE GET TO THE JUDICIARY STUFF, SSUT, SIMPLIFIED SELLERS USE TAX, BASICALLY THE ONLINE SALES TAX.

YOU HAD A BILL ADJUSTING THIS, INCREASING IT IN SOME WAYS.

GOT THROUGH COMMITTEE, THE HOUSE FLOOR, AND RAN INTO A BRICK WALL THERE.

TALK ABOUT THIS, BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF COMPLICATED, TALK ABOUT WHAT'S BEHIND THIS BILL AND WHAT IT WOULD HAVE DONE.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, YEARS AGO, WE CREATED THIS SIMPLIFIED SELLER USE TAX, THE SSUT BECAUSE ONLINE MARKETPLACE FACILITATORS WERE NOT REQUIRED TO COLLECT A TAX ON ONLINE SALES.

SO TO ENCOURAGE ONLINE MARKETPLACE RETAILERS TO COLLECT A TAX WE PUT IT AT 8%, LOWER THAN THE PREVAILING RATE ACROSS THE STATE IN DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.

FAST FORWARD A COUPLE OF YEARS, SUPREME COURT ISSUES A WAY FAIR DECISION THAT ALLOWS US TO NOW ASSESS A USE TAX ON THOSE TRANSACTIONS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THOUGH, AS YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT A MORE CONVENIENT WAY TO GET YOUR SERVICES OR GOODS AT A LOWER COST, MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ORDER STUFF ONLINE.

SO, IT IS A LOWER TAX.

ALSO, IN SSUT, WE CREATED ANOTHER PATHWAY.

SO, LIKE, WHEREAS YOUR TRADITIONAL SALES TAX WILL GO INTO THE EDUCATION TRUST FUND, THIS USE TAX PRIMARILY GOES THROUGH THE GENERAL FUND.

AS WE COLLECT IT AT A LOWER RATE ACROSS THE STATE, THE BIGGEST LOSERS ARE THE LOCAL BRICK AND MORTAR BECAUSE LESS PEOPLE GO TO THE STORES BUT ALSO EDUCATION.

AND ACROSS THE STATE, THERE ARE PROBABLY I THINK 15 TOTAL CITY COUNCILS AND COUNTY COMMISSIONS THAT ACTUALLY SHARE IN THE PROCEEDS OF THIS SSUT WHICH, BY THE WAY, PROBABLY GROWS ABOUT 20% EVERY FISCAL YEAR, BUT THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT 15 THAT SHARE THAT MONEY WITH LOCAL SCHOOLS.

SO SCHOOLS ARE LOSING OUT, BRICK AND MORTAR STORES ARE LOSING OUT, AND IT'S REALLY TO THE BENEFIT OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY DON'T LIVE HERE.

LIKE OUT OF STATE, MARKETPLACE FACILITATORS LIKE AMAZON GET A BREAK WHILE YOUR BUSINESSES IN CITIES AND COUNTIES SUFFER A DISPARITY BECAUSE IT'S A HIGHER TAX RATE AND, GUESS WHAT?

MORE PEOPLE SHOP ONLINE THAN GO IN STORES NOW.

>> SO THIS WOULD HAVE FIXED IT.

BUT WAS IT JUST THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A TAX INCREASE THAT LED TO IT BEING CARRIED OVER?

>> I THINK THAT'S PART OF IT, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THE BILL ITSELF WOULD HAVE INCREASED THE TAX RATE TO ABOUT 9.33%, WHICH IS THE AVERAGE ACROSS THE STATE.

BUT THAT -- >> SO, LIKE, HERE IN MONTGOMERY I THINK IT'S 10.

>> 10, YEAH.

AS A RESULT, THE NEW MONEY WOULD HAVE HAD A DIFFERENT DISTRIBUTION FORMULA.

SOME WOULD HAVE GONE TO THE BIG TEN, WHICH ARE OVER 50,000 PEOPLE POPULATION-WISE, SOME HAVE GONE TO LESS THAN 50,000.

COUNTIES WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ABOUT 15%, AND THE COUNTY SCHOOLS WOULD HAVE GOT ABOUT 20.

AND I THINK IT WASN'T AS MUCH OF THE TAX INCREASE THAT KILLED IT OR SLOWED IT DOWN TO POSSIBLY KILLING IT TO JUST THE DISTRIBUTION FORMULA AND PEOPLE WANTING MORE OF THE NEW MONEY.

BUT, ULTIMATELY, BY KILLING THE BILL, YOU'RE NOT GETTING ANYTHING.

AND FOR ANOTHER YEAR, LOCAL BUSINESSES WILL SUFFER, YOU WILL HAVE LESS MONEY FOR EDUCATION, AND THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THOSE WHO HAVE LOW MILLAGE RATES VERSUS THOSE WHO HAVE HIGH MILLAGE RATES WILL CONTINUE TO GROW.

AND I DON'T THINK IT TRANSLATES VERY WELL BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL SEE THAT WE PASS A RECORD EDUCATION BILL AND IT'S, LIKE, $8 BILLION, $9 BILLION OR SOMETHING, AND THEY WILL THINK, WELL, THE SCHOOLS MUST BE FLUSHED WITH MONEY, BUT IT DOESN'T TRANSLATE THAT WAY BECAUSE INFLATION, THE COST ON THE GROUND INCREASES BUT THE MONEY THEY GET NEVER DOES.

>> ON THE LOCAL LEVEL.

>> ON THE LOCAL LEVEL.

AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'RE VOTING DOWN PROPERTY TAX INCREASES ACROSS THE STATE, IT'S NOT A POPULAR THING, BUT THAT MONEY GOES TO EDUCATION.

SO, IMAGINE, NOW, YOU ARE PROBABLY DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, 2020 MONEY WITH 2024 COSTS.

SO, LIKE, LOCAL SCHOOL BOARDS ARE PICKING UP GAS TRANSPORTATION COSTS, COSTS FOR STUDENT RESOURCE OFFICERS, COSTS FOR NURSES AND COUNSELORS ARE ALL COMING OUT OF LOCAL MONEY THAT DOESN'T COME FROM THE STATE AND WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

SO THIS IS JUST ANOTHER PATHWAY TO TRY TO CREATE FUNDING, A PERPETUAL FUNDING SOURCE FOR LOCAL SCHOOLS.

>> I WAS SURPRISED WHEN I SAW IT ON THE CALENDAR, I THOUGHT THERE MUST BE SOME AGREEMENT HERE AND IT GOT CARRIED OVER.

>> THE NIGHT BEFORE, WE GOT THERE AND EVERYTHING CHANGED IN THE MORNING.

>> INTERESTING.

WELL, LET'S GO TO YOUR JUDICIOUS BILLS.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU GOT ONE THROUGH JUDICIARY COMMITTEE YESTERDAY, HAS TO DO WITH ELDERLY OR SERIOUSLY ILL INMATES AND A PATHWAY TO PAROLE REVIEW FOR THAT.

GOT THROUGH.

HAD SOME EASEMENTS BUT IT GOT THROUGH.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS BILL DOES.

>> WELL, IT'S COMPASSIONATE PAROLE AND, AS OUR CURRENT PAROLE BOARD CONTINUES THEIR STATE OF DYSFUNCTION WHICH IS REALLY JUST POOR LEADERSHIP, OUR POPULATION CONTINUES TO NOT ONLY INCREASE BUT AGE.

OBVIOUSLY, THE OLDER YOU GET, THE MORE IT'S GOING TO COST TO CARE FOR YOU.

AND, QUITE FRANKLY, WE ARE TRYING TO FIND DIFFERENT WAYS LEGISLATIVELY, IF YOU LOOK A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WHEN WE HAVE MANDATORY RELEASE AND SO FORTH, WE'RE TRYING TO FIND DIFFERENT WAYS TO WORK AROUND JUST HOW INEFFECTIVE THE PAROLE BOARD HAS BEEN SINCE 2019.

AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THIS LIKE IT'S A SOFT-ON-CRIME SORT OF THING, AND IT'S NOT.

IT'S REALLY NOT.

IT'S TRYING TO FIND A REASONABLE WAY TO MANAGE A PRISON POPULATION SO WE CAN GET THE MOST EFFECTIVE USE OF THE RESOURCES WE HAVE.

AND, QUITE HONESTLY, IF THE PAROLE BOARD CONTINUES TO FUNCTION THE WAY THEY DO OR CURRENTLY ARE, THERE'S NO WAY WE COULD BUILD A PRISON LARGE ENOUGH TO INCARCERATE EVERYONE.

THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN GENERATE ENOUGH MONEY TO CARE FOR THE FOLKS THAT ARE IN OUR CUSTODY.

I MEAN, WE'VE ALREADY GOT A BILLION-DOLLAR PRISON WITH NO PLANS OR MONEY TO BUILD ANOTHER ONE, AND WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE SEVERAL AS A RESULT BECAUSE SOME OF THEM SHOULD BE CONDEMNED, BUT WE ALSO JUST RECENTLY SIGNED A BILLION-DOLLAR HEALTHCARE CONTRACT.

THAT'S UNSUSTAINABLE.

AND BY THE WAY, WE CREATE MORE CRIMES EVERY SESSION, WE INCARCERATE MORE PEOPLE.

SO THE PAROLE BOARD BECOMES THE CHOKE POINT WHERE NO ONE GETS OUT, EVEN THOSE WHO ARE NO LONGER A PUBLIC THREAT OR TOO SICK TO BE A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

AND BASICALLY WE'RE RUNNING AN OLD FOLKS' HOME FOR PEOPLE TO PASS AWAY IN OUR CUSTODY.

YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN TO ME THAT'S AN EFFECTIVE USE OF RESOURCES.

BY THE WAY, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY AND EVERYBODY TELLS YOU THE FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN THERE THE LONGEST ARE THE BIGGEST THREATS, OVER 90% OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INCARCERATED GET OUT AT SOME POINT.

DO YOU THINK IT'S ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, IF YOU CLAIM YOU'RE AFRAID OF THESE FOLKS, BUT YOU MAKE THEM SERVE THEIR ENTIRE SENTENCE WHICH MEANS THEY GET OUT WITH NO SUPERVISION AT ALL, OR YOU RELEASE THEM A YEAR OR SO EARLIER BEFORE THEY HIT END OF SENTENCE FOR SUPERVISION AND HELP.

SO, IF THEY REOFFEND, THEY CAN ACTUALLY GO BACK, OR THEY COULD HAVE SOMEBODY TO HELP THEM DO SOMETHING LIKE GET I.D., GET A JOB AND SO FORTH.

THAT'S WHAT PUBLIC SAFETY IS ABOUT, NOT HOLDING EVERYBODY TO THE END OF THEIR SENTENCE SO THEY GET OUT WITH NO SUPERVISION.

IT MAKES NO SENSE.

IF OUR PAROLE BOARD KEEPS FUNCTIONING THIS WAY, IT'S SETTING US UP TO LOSE SEVERAL LAWSUITS IN COURT BUT ALSO MAKING US LESS SAFE.

>> YEAH, I REMEMBER COMMISSIONER HAMM, HE USED THE ANALOGY OF A BATHTUB.

HE SAID THE CONSTRUCTION SYSTEM IS A BATHTUB -- WE DON'T TURN THE FAUCET ON OR TAKE THE PLUG OUT, WE JUST HAVE TO MANAGE WHAT'S IN THE BATHTUB.

>> BUT YOU HAVE TO THINK, THOUGH, THEY ARE CHARGED WITH CORRECTIONS, RIGHT, REHABILITATING PEOPLE, AND THEY ACTUALLY CLASSIFY PEOPLE BASED UPON THEIR ASSESSMENT AND SEND SOME OF THESE FOLKS OUT EVERY DAY, UNSUPERVISED FOR HOURS AT A TIME TO GO WORK AND COME BACK.

NOW, EITHER THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING, OR THE PARDONS AND PAROLE BOARD BELIEVES THAT THEY ARE THE WORST AT THEIR JOBS.

>> WELL, SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND IT TENDS TO MAKE A LOT OF SENSE THAN JUST KNOWING THE ISSUE.

BUT AT THE END TO HAVE THE DAY IT COMES DOWN TO POLITICS.

EVERY VOTE THAT'S TAKEN IN THIS BUILDING COMES DOWN TO POLITICS.

IT IS JUST TOUGH FOR A LOT OF MEMBERS FOR THE LEGISLATURE, CONGRESS, GO ON DOWN THE LINE, TO TAKE ANY KIND OF POSITION THAT IS DEEMED, LIKE YOU SAID, SOFT ON CRIME.

WE'VE GOT TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME, THAT'S WHY MORE CRIMES ARE CREATED EVERY YEAR.

IT'S JUST DIFFICULT TO PASS ANYTHING THAT WOULD SEEM AS TOUGH ON CRIME BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO GET A PRIMARY OPPONENT AND SOMEBODY TO RUN AGAINST THEM.

HOW DOES THIS END?

HOW DOES PERSUASION ON REASONABLE PUBLIC POLICY HAPPEN UNDERSTANDING THERE IS A POLITICAL INCENTIVE TO ALWAYS BE THE TOUGH-ON-CRIME CANDIDATE?

>> THE MESSAGE, FACING THE BACKDROP YOU MENTIONED, HAS EVOLVED BECAUSE, ON THE ONE HAND, OUR SYSTEM IS UNCONSTITUTIONALLY -- ACCORDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE -- INHUMANE, OVERCROWDED AND UNDER-RESOURCED, RIGHT.

SO WE WANT THE STORIES THAT YOU HEAR ABOUT HOW AWFUL THE CONDITIONS ARE WITHIN OUR PRISON SYSTEM TO HOPEFULLY MORALLY MOTIVE US, RIGHT?

BUT THAT'S JUST ONE COMPONENT OF IT.

THE OTHER PART OF IT IS, WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY.

SO I CAN BE AS TOUGH ON CRIME AS I CLAIM TO BE OR WANT YOU TO BELIEVE I AM, BUT ALSO, IN THE SAME SENTENCE, SACRIFICE PUBLIC SAFETY BECAUSE EVENTUALLY THERE'S NO -- THERE'S NOWHERE FOR THESE FOLKS TO GO.

HOPEFULLY WHAT PREVAILS IF HUMANITY DOESN'T MOVE US TO TAKE CHARGE OF THE PEOPLE WE'VE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AND TREATING THEM AS HUMANS FIRST, THE OTHER PART IS IT'S NOT FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR US TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE THE WAY THAT WE ARE BECAUSE WE LITERALLY CANNOT AFFORD IT.

OUR TWO LARGEST EXPENDITURES IN OUR GENERAL FUND ARE MEDICAID AND PRISONS.

THAT'S NOT A COINCIDENCE.

IT'S ALSO NOT A COINCIDENCE THAT IT'S COSTING US A BILLION DOLLARS TO CARE FOR THESE FOLKS.

MEANWHILE, OUR PAROLE BOARD IS GIVING US A POPULATION THAT'S GROWING IN SIZE AND AGE AND IN COSTS.

IT'S UNSUSTAINABLE.

SO, HOPEFULLY, WHAT PREVAILS IS JUST BASIC COMMON SENSE THAT WE CAN TELL YOU WERE TOUGH ON CRIME ALL DAY LONG BUT YOU SHOULD PREFER US TO BE SMART ON CRIME SO WE GET THE MOST USE OUT OF THE RESOURCES WE HAVE AND MAINTAIN PUBLIC SAFETY AT THE SAME TIME.

IT'S POSSIBLE.

OTHER PEOPLE DO IT ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, BUT SOMEHOW WE HAVEN'T CROSSED THAT THRESHOLD YET.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT COIN, THOUGH?

A LAT OF THE REASON FOR THE PARDONS AND PAROLES SITUATION NOW WAS THERE WAS A PAROLEE WHO COMMITTED SOME MURDERS, I GUESS BACK IN 2018, 2019-ISH, THAT REALLY CHANGED THE GAME BECAUSE, WAIT, IT'S A HUGE STORY, YOU KNOW, THIS PERSON OBVIOUSLY WAS A THREAD AND ALL THIS, SO THAT REALLY CHANGED THE GAME.

SO TALK ABOUT THAT.

WHEN MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, WHOMEVER, PARDONS AND PAROLES SAYS WE DON'T NEED TO LET VIOLENT PEOPLE -- THEY'RE IN JAIL FOR A REASON, WE DON'T NEED TO DO THINGS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO GET OUT OF JAIL.

HOW DO YOU ANSWER THAT CRITICISM?

>> BECAUSE OUR OVERPOPULATED JAILS ARE ACTUALLY KEEPING MORE VIOLENT OFFENDERS OUT RATHER THAN IN BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO THINGS SHORT OF LONG-TERM INCARCERATION BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A PLACE TO PUT A LOT OF THESE FOLKS.

SO WHEN YOU ACTUALLY START FROM THE TOP AND SAY OUR PRISONS ARE OVERCROWDED, THE EFFECT OF THAT TRICKLES DOWN TO HOW WE PLEAD CASES, WHAT WE DO WHEN PEOPLE ARE OUT ON BOND AND SO FORTH, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES ABOUT WHO GOES IN AND WHO DOESN'T.

THOSE BECOME PRACTICAL CHOICES BASED ON SPACE, NOT ON NEED.

AND YOU CAN'T TELL ME THAT, AS A PROSECUTOR, I'M MAKING CHOICES BASED ON RESOURCES AND SPACE, WHERE DOES PUBLIC SAFETY ENTER INTO THAT THOUGHT PROCESS?

BUT THE OTHER PART OF THAT IS A LARGE PURGE OF OUR PRISON POPULATION NOW ARE CONVICTED OF VIOLENT OFFENSES, BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THEY'RE VIOLENT OFFENDERS.

WHICH MEANS WHEN WE'RE GOING TO THE PARDONS AND PAROLE BOARD AND YOU HAVE SOMEONE RETRY AGO CASE THAT HAPPENED 15, 20 YEARS AGO, THEY PRETTY MUCH IGNORE ALL THEY'VE DONE WHILE INCARCERATED TO BETTER THEMSELVES SO THEY DON'T REOFFEND WHEN THEY GET OUT.

CAN YOU IMAGINE MANAGING A POPULATION THAT'S TOLD NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE INCARCERATED -- GET DEGREES, BEHAVE YOURSELVES, BECOME ONE OF THE MOST TRUSTED MEMBERS TO THE POINT WE LET YOU GO EVERY DAY AND COME BACK -- WHEN YOU GO BE OFF THE PAROLE BOARD, THEY TELL YOU NO.

>> IT SHOULD BE AN INCENTIVE.

>> YES.

AND THE AMAZING THING, THE HORRIBLE CRIME THAT MOTIVATED ALL THIS, THAT PERSON WAS OF A MEDIUM RISK ASSESSMENT.

THE CURRENT BOARDS THE PEOPLE GET OUT THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE UNDER MEDIUM RISK ASSESSMENTS GET OUT THAN THOSE WHO ARE LOW RISK ASSESSMENTS.

A LAWSUIT IS PENDING BEFORE THE FEDERAL COURT ABOUT THE WAY WE USE PRISON LABOR BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE CONSIDERED TO BE LOW RISK TO THE POINT THEY LEAVE EVERY DAY AND GO WORK, BUT WHEN THEY GO BEFORE THE PAROLE BOARD THEY'RE TOLD THEY CAN'T BE RELEASED BECAUSE THEY'RE A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY.

SO, AGAIN, YOU DON'T WANT US TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME, YOU WANT US TO BE SMART ON CRIME BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE SMART ON CRIME WE GET A BETTER USE OF RESOURCES AND INCARCERATE PEOPLE RATHER THAN PEOPLE WE'RE JUST MAD AT.

>> INTERESTING.

THAT WAS A GREAT CONVERSATION.

I APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.

OBVIOUSLY A LOT MORE TO TALK ABOUT AS THE SESSION GOES ON.

YOUR BILL IS MOVING.

AGAIN, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK ON TO FOLLOW UP.

>> YEAH, THANK YOU.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH OUR NIGHTLY COVERAGE OF THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE 10:30 MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FOR OUR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.