(upbeat music) - [Lorraine] Community leaders underscore the need to keep masking up even as restrictions ease.

- The truth is this is still a pandemic - [Lorraine] Months after closing its doors, Tucson's Children Museum welcomes back families.

- We're hands-on interactive and that's really challenging in a pandemic.

- [Lorraine] Plus an update on the financial setbacks from ongoing travel restrictions at the border.

- You don't fix every single one of us in different fronts.

(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Arizona360, I'm Lorraine Rivera.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Despite Governor Ducey issuing an executive order that lifts local mask mandates, some local governments like Pima County and the city of Tucson as well as the University of Arizona have announced they will not comply.

The governor's executive order states that no county, city or town can issue COVID regulations that conflict with his directives or enforce them if they were enacted after March 11th, 2020.

And that includes mandating face coverings.

Instead, his office says individual businesses can decide for themselves whether or not to require masks.

- Governor Ducey's actions are premature.

- [Lorraine] The move drew swift criticism from the city of Tucson which claims it still has the authority to keep its mask ordinance in place.

- This continues to be the law of the land in Pima County.

- [Lorraine] Pima County also said this week that it would continue in forcing its mask resolution.

- It's up to the legislature and not the governor to decide.

- [Lorraine] But the issue of enforcement or lack thereof is why a spokesperson for the governor's office called municipalities defiance of the order quote, "Completely inconsequential".

Tucson police and county officials tell us no one has been fined for violating local mandates.

Well, the County says it has received more than 2,600 complaints establishments ultimately complied with masks.

- We will continue to take an educational approach to this but make no mistake, we also intend to use whatever enforcement capacity we have - [Lorraine] Calls to continue masking up are also coming from the University of Arizona.

Shortly after the governor's order, campus leaders clarified that all face covering requirements and other mitigation policies will remain in place.

- Please stay with us on this.

Stay with the laid book we've been running.

It's gotten us this far.

- This is the university plans to increase in-person class sizes to 100 students.

We discussed how public health will remain a priority with a 17th surgeon general of the United States, Dr. Richard Carmona.

He oversees the UBS COVID response.

The university recently increased its class size.

What are some of the measures that you'll be instituting to ensure that the spread is mitigated given the number of people in a space?

- Well, we'll continue to do all of the public health guidance that we have.

Masking up, washing hands, socially distance, but the metrics that we have followed over months now that we'd look at through our public health advisory team are internal, external metrics.

We wanna make sure that the community has enough resources should there be an untoward increase in cases as well as within the campus that we're not transmitting.

And we're looking at those on a regular basis.

And the fact that we have a meeting this morning again.

And as long as those numbers stay acceptable and sustained for a couple of weeks, then we move to the next level.

So we're really not gonna be anything new as far as public health, but what it shows us are the public health measures that we have put in place are working because we have less disease in the community and in the campus.

- Any concern in making this decision that it sends a message to students for example, that it is okay to congregate whether or not you're vaccinated or you're wearing a mask?

- We've had many discussions about that and of course the difference of opinion there in the media.

At a national level, at a state level that are confusing.

We feel we've been very consistent with our students every week the president and I have a press conference and we discuss these issues and we keep reminding our students, faculty, and staff, to continue to use the same public health guidance we've always, always put out there.

And just because we're loosening things a little bit don't feel that you can fail and forget about masking and social distancing and so on.

So we keep emphasizing that it's very important - This week in that press conference the conversation was about penalties.

Where are you in thinking that they will be enforced and honored, especially as the semester winds down and the parties ramp up?

- Well, the students overall have been pretty good.

We have worked with the Dean of students on a regular basis.

And I would say penalties are a last resort.

We've attempted to inspire, to cajole, to explain so that the students will comply with these guidelines.

But as we report every week there are infractions when those infractions are continual, we'll give them to the Dean of students.

And in some cases expelling somebody and or disciplining a student.

But they're not that often.

I mean, I would say most of the students are complying, however painful it may be during this tough time.

- I wanna ask you about some of that mixed messaging that you referenced because the governor has lifted some restrictions including the mask wearing, but here in Pima County as we know, it's a different situation.

And here on U of A Campus you're still recommending that people wear masks.

So people are wondering, who do you listen to?

- Absolutely, it is very difficult.

You know, when science becomes politicized this is what happens, not only in Arizona, but in the whole United States.

So president Robbins and I have been very, very consistent that irrespective of any of these other messages that may confuse, our policy on the university is to continue to mask up and stay socially distant until we tell you otherwise because those are the best public health practices.

- You share the stage with the governor as recently as last week.

Would it be fair to say you were somewhat disappointed in his discussion about how to move forward with not wearing masks?

- Well, I would say that we have a difference of opinion.

I realized that governor's, former president looked at things through a different lens.

We are looking at it through a scientific lens that these are the best public health practices.

But also we are sensitive to the economy and business and people being able to start being normal, if you will again, because we recognize that COVID exhaustion is, affecting all of us - As a former surgeon general, who do you recommend that the public listen to when they are weighing politics versus science?

- I think it's important that the scientists be heard and those voices are never muted.

The truth is this is still a pandemic.

We are in the midst of a pandemic which seems we're getting controlled for a short period and we wanna continue that.

Therefore, it is important that everybody still adhere to the best public health practices of social distancing, washing your hands, wearing a mask and get vaccinated as quickly as you can.

Those are very, very important.

- Well, let me ask you this here in the State of Arizona the governor issues one statement, the County with another, the president has asked the state to reconsider does that have to factor into what people decide on what's best for them?

- It certainly does.

And I think it's important that the public knows where to get the best information especially when there's conflict.

I mean, going to the university website, for instance, going to the NIH or CDC, these are nonpolitical statements of what the best science represents.

And that's where the public should go when, and if they are confused about this.

- All right, Dr. Richard Carmona, thank you for your insight.

- Thanks very much.

- As face coverings go from being a requirement to a recommendation in some places that can sometimes lead to confrontation.

How people communicate those differences can take many forms.

To understand more about messaging around masks, we turned to Bradley Adame an associate professor at Arizona State University whose expertise includes health communication.

When local mandates are there but they're not necessarily enforced and people know that, do they have any reason to follow the guidelines that they're being told they should?

- The mandate is there to kind of at least help people set the example and to kind of normalize the behavior.

You know, there's always gonna be people who are going to be non-compliant no matter what but there are probably is a group of people who maybe don't necessarily want to wear a mask but they feel compelled to because the mandate is there and because they don't wanna be a social outlier.

And so probably those non enforced mandates even though they don't have any teeth to them necessarily are effective because they get people to comply who are likely on the fence or if there were no mandate, they wouldn't wear a mask.

But, well, gosh because there is one, I better go ahead and do it so that people don't look at me funny or that I don't feel like a social deviant.

- There are some people who feel compelled to tell you what they think about mask wearing whether they think you should, or you shouldn't.

Why do people do that?

- If we have a certain belief and so much of the mask wearing has been politicized, which is unfortunate.

But I think that there are instances where people have a particular belief and if they see other people not kind of behaving in a consistent way with their own personal belief they have to try and convince that person almost like proselytizing to try and convince or to solidify their own position.

And so the more people I see engaging in a way that is consistent with me, the more I am convinced that my belief is right.

And so when I see somebody who's not engaging in a way that is consistent with my beliefs it helps me to shore up my own confidence, my own beliefs to say something to that person.

Whether it's deriding them for not wearing a mask or deriding for wearing a mask.

Because that kind of then allows me to feel better about my own beliefs and helps me convince myself that I am correct.

- There are people who will confront others and you do not wanna be confronted.

We've seen this emerge on social media, et cetera.

How do we avoid conflict?

- Probably the best way to avoid conflict is to not engage it in the first place.

I live with my family in Scottsdale.

We spend a lot of time in old town Scottsdale and there are many, many people out there, especially these last few weekends who have not been wearing masks.

We don't say anything to people who don't.

And so therefore for us at least there is no conflict there.

And I think that, again if you feel strongly about it and you say something to somebody that's inviting conflict.

So I think the best thing that you can do at least if you're on the mask wearing side, is to, again model the behavior and do your best not to engage people or just don't pick a fight if there isn't one there.

And there are other things that you can do that the science tells us that you can do to keep yourself safe in the presence of people who aren't wearing masks.

So I think that that's definitely one way to avoid any potential conflict is to not start it in the first place.

- What about us as a society has changed our communication style where we think, I don't like you and I'm going to verbalize it to your face or on social media.

- I think the pandemic has made it much more salient how interconnected we are as people and how reliant we are especially in a public health context.

So if someone's in close proximity to me and not wearing a mask and we know that they could transmit the disease.

And so it's, the effects are much more immediate, they're more concrete, they're much more tangible.

And I think because the people realize the gravity and the rate at which the disease spreads and the concreteness of all that stuff that makes people feel more confident in speaking out.

Not only to protect their own health but also to protect the health of others.

- Do you see some evolution in our styles, behavior, taking place as a result of this pandemic, as we move forward?

- I've seen some bright lights, I have.

I think that, you know, again, that there are people out there who are angry about being told what to do and they're feeling reactive and things like that.

But I've also seen that there have been many more recommendations about how to engage in this whether it's the vaccine or masking or anything like that.

There's been this proliferation of advice on how to engage people in empathetic ways that diffuse conflict in ways that help you understand someone else's perspective.

And I think that if we're going to disagree with people and also engage in these socially protected behaviors we have to do it with empathy, we have to do it with understanding.

And we have to kind of approach people, not necessarily and bombard them with arguments that they're wrong but try and understand their perspective, why they're behaving the way they are and then come to a mutual understanding.

And I think I've seen a lot more advice on that.

And I hope that that will help people engage more civil discussions about these disagreements.

- Yeah, further proof that it all comes down to communication in the end.

- Well, yes, absolutely.

- All right, Dr. Bradley Adame joining us from Arizona State University, thank you.

- Thank you very much for having me.

- Masks are required at the children's museum.

It's one of the many protocols taken when the museum reopened its stores months after closing them because of the pandemic.

Tony Banjara made a recent visit to see how operations have adapted.

- [Tony] The children's museum in downtown Tucson reopened its doors on Thursday, March 25th.

It was the same day that governor Doug Ducey lifted various state measures meant to reduce the risk of COVID-19.

But the museum's timing was coincidental.

- It's been a long year and so we've really been following the health department guidelines, the CDC guidelines, and just following the data.

We were able to reopen in November because the numbers were looking better.

And once they started to climb again, we just made the call that it wasn't safe and we closed back down.

Many museums across the country have done that.

And once the numbers started to improve dramatically in Pima County, we knew it was time and so we reopened.

- [Tony] And that included the Oro Valley location as well.

One week later on Thursday, April 1st.

- It's amazing to be able to serve families throughout Southern Arizona.

And we're just so appreciative of that support.

We're welcoming families back at both locations.

- We were talking in the newsroom about how this museum is atypical from other museums where they say, please look, but don't.

- And it's written in our mission, right?

We're hands-on interactive and that's really challenging in a pandemic.

So I think really what we focused on is making sure that we can welcome families back in a safe manner - [Tony] Among other measures the museum is making various programs available online or on video.

At the brick and mortar facilities, the amount of visitors allowed per day has been reduced compared to traditional numbers.

Masks are required.

There is plentiful sanitizer and employees have also installed special receptacles throughout the facility.

They are called McBuckets.

- Full sensory kids are.

If a little guy put something in their mouth, the mom is able, or the parent or the caregiver whoever's with them on that day is able to take it and say, okay, this needs a little extra cleaning.

And we have McBuckets in every exhibit.

- [Tony] So what do parents think about the reopening?

- I have no problem letting my son run wild here.

- [Tony] Jennifer Katuna is a nurse turned stay at home mom and she's here with her son for the first time.

She planned on visiting last year but then the pandemic.

- Basically what I tell my family to do is just wash your hands, hands away from the mouth.

And it seems like they've got hand washing stations, hand sanitizers so I'm definitely okay with it.

- [Tony] Lani Weller lives in New York City and she came to visit her mother in Tucson.

Her son, Lucian is almost three years old.

So Weller there was glad the children's museum is open.

- It's great to see kids being together in a space.

And it's been a really hard year.

And it's nice to see kids smiling here.

Look Lucian, you're on TV.

- Does it give you some peace of mind that at least according to what we know so far children are less likely to get infected and sick?

- Our goal is to make sure that families feel comfortable coming back to the museum, coming back out into the community safely.

And doing it in a way that is respectful of how everyone wants to unfold their families and have those conversations.

- We feel like the risk of being around children and socializing is more important than the very small risk of coronavirus.

And having something critical happen because of the virus.

- My son's four and a half.

And he's at that pivotal social interaction that is a must 'cause he's getting ready to enter into kindergarten.

So this is great because they get to interact not only with their buddies, but making new friends - [Tony] Things are looking better right now, but it has been a grueling year according to the executive director.

There have been layoffs, missed events and attendance, lost revenues and plenty of uncertainty.

Across the country a few children's museums have announced they will close permanently due to pandemic related challenges.

This includes the one in Portland, Oregon which was going to celebrate its 75th anniversary this year.

Still, federal funds and community support have helped in Tucson.

And this museum was even able to complete some major projects during the closures to the public.

- What really has been gratifying is watching how our entire staff and our board came together and said, what can we do?

And the stuff that has come out and the creativity that has come out of that process what we're doing is bringing more programming and it's exciting and new and different and we're very proud of it.

(soft music) - Travel restrictions between the US and Mexico in place for over a year will remain in effect through April 21st.

The latest data from the Bureau of Transportation shows that in December traffic at Arizona's ports of entry was down by half compared to the year before.

Fewer visitors translates into loss revenue in retail hubs, like the Tucson Metro.

An issue we recently discussed with Fellipe Garcia, executive vice president of Vamos A Tucson, visit Tucson's Mexico marketing department.

- It affects every single one of us in different fronts.

First of all, if you're in the hospitality industry, if you have a hotel or a restaurant, of course you're gonna be impacted by that visitors are not coming here with money in their pockets and leaving here in our community.

And you might say, well, I don't work in tourism.

So maybe the impact is not as big as it needs.

And I don't have a retail store.

Well, what is fascinating is that when people from Mexico come to Arizona, when they're spending money in our state, they're paying sales tax.

So all of those dollars in sales tax generated they're staying with local governments.

So our police, our fire, our roads when they put gasoline in our cars and they feel the tank before leaving to Mexico and they're here in their vacation all those tax dollars are impacting every single individual that recites here in Arizona.

- Congress has extended aid by the form of loans.

When I hear the word loan, I think you have to pay that back.

How feasible is that for some of the communities, the businesses here in Arizona?

- You know, something that the federal government has issued some programs that are helping us on local businesses.

It's a lifeline and it need helps us and it help small businesses, but it's short term.

And when I talked to owners of small stores or even maybe their national store or chain that has presence here, the biggest issue it's okay, what's in the future?

I need to have a vision of the next few months.

Should I continue and try to manage staying open for three, four months or should I call it quits and just completely shut my business and lay everyone off and then just leave that space?

So that's challenging right now.

And that's what we're pushing right now is to get more certainty.

- Your job at the visitors Bureau is to recruit, to retain businesses and tourists, how have you managed this past year?

- It's been challenging and to be honest, Lorraine, I mean we have to reinvent a lot of times.

First of all, we pull back a lot of the advertising.

I mean, if we could not read people from Mexico across the border, why should we be advertising or Canada?

So we change our approach and do more of a public relations.

We started shifting from marketing selling to let's talk about things that are happening they're relevant to you.

From COVID to recovery programs, to even informing individuals about how can you travel.

And if you can, what you need to happen, what you need to do.

But now we're starting to see a recovery and we're happy to start seeing in the near future numbers coming back for tourism all over the state of Arizona - People are restless.

They will want to get back to crossing back and forth.

So based on what you know, will ports of entry be staffed adequately and safely to handle the low they could be seen coming across?

- I think they're ready.

And we're hoping that they're gonna get some temporary assignment officers of the different ports of entry.

Because Lorraine, you're correct, the pane of the demand huge, you have no idea we communicate of course through social media with our friends in Mexico.

And every time we talk about the border the number of emails, calls, messages that we get of people saying I've been saving money all these year.

I'm ready, I need to go shopping for clothing.

I need to buy these new computer.

The demands are so we know is gonna be a big interest of coming across the border.

Something that we're suggesting.

And again, we understand that there's people at the CDC and federal government that can handle these procedures better.

But we think that maybe a staggered approach could be a good way to reopen the border.

Maybe start with people that already got their vaccine.

If you've already been vaccinated, perfect, can we welcome those individuals first?

Second, once we get to our certain levels in both States, then can we welcome someone that has not received their vaccines yet but maybe has a test, but it's negative.

And then third let's reopen the border completely.

So we're looking again, and as a business community we wanna have a sensible, safe approach.

We don't want just to open the border with no process or thought about it.

The most important thing is yes, economy is important.

We want jobs, but we want people to be safe and to be healthy as well.

- Okay.

Fellipe Garcia from Vamos A Tucson, thank you.

- Thank you.

- Across the border in Sonora, Mexico, the state has recorded more than 70,000 cases of COVID-19 and 6,200 deaths.

To prevent potential outbreaks during spring break and Easter at recently set up checkpoints by beaches and tourist areas where travelers need to show proof of a negative COVID test.

For more insight into daily life in Sonora during the pandemic we connected with Claudia Orduno, a podcaster and former Mexican diplomat based in El Museo.

Tell us, how has the pandemic affected Sonora's economy?

- It's a very hard topic to talk about.

Honestly, there's a lot of business that has been struggling since last year, especially the small business.

It's been very hard.

And I think it kind of made not only in Sonora but in Mexico has been affected.

Most of the business, most of the people that work in some of the big industries has to be left and they didn't have much opportunity.

So there are a lot of people that left to work in something else and they lose their jobs.

So it's very, very hard.

- In Sonora, one of the main industry involves manufacturing, were there options for remote work because we saw some of that here in the United States?

- Most of the jobs that involves office or some office from the government, you can go at home.

I mean, your office is wherever you are with your computer and some internet connection.

But for the people that works in the industries, manufacturing, so it's kind of hard.

So they didn't have a lot of opportunity with that.

- How did port restrictions that then restricted travel to places like San Carlos or Rocky Point, how did that affect communities that rely heavily on visitors coming and spending their money?

- That's a very good question.

You know, we have very special places in Sonora.

You mentioned it's Rocky Points and Carlos, Guaymas and some other, and it was very hard.

The hotels, the restaurants, well they had thought to close some of hotels in San Carlos, they needed to be closed.

And people who have reservations for summer vacations in 2020, well they sadly had been used to stop or look for some other options because the hotels were shutting down because, well, there is no tourist.

I know like Rocky Point has another story about this but some San Carlos, it happens to have very hard times.

Now we are doing the spring break so authorities and the government are trying to make the things in very order because we want go to the beach no matter what?

That's a thing.

And not only for tourists from other places but for the locals.

- Claudia, you are a former journalist, you are currently a podcaster, a former Mexican diplomat, what do you see as the path to recovery as hopefully the pandemic comes to an end?

- Well, I think we need to work side-by-side with responsibility.

We need to be responsible of the things that we do, where we go.

We are obeying what the authorities is asking us not to do.

We need to stay safe, we need to continue staying at home.

I know it's hard.

It's not a thing that is going to be over I guess, anytime soon.

I really trust that economy would rise again and we will all rise up again.

- And some hope that the relationship that Sonora enjoys with Arizona will continue to prosper hopefully in the days ahead.

- Hopefully because we truly miss visiting Arizona.

We have excellent relationships.

We have excellent things that we are doing together like in the universities, like tourism, like commerce.

So I think that we need to make that bound stronger.

And the only way to do it is to be patient.

- Okay, thank you for your insight, Claudia Orduno joining us from El Museo.

- It was really a pleasure.

- That's all for now, thanks for joining us.

To get in touch visit us on social media or send an email to Arizona360@azpm.org and let us know what you think.

We're taking a break next Friday, we'll see you when we return.

(upbeat music)