>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY.

THOSE WERE THE VERDICTS OUT OF MINNEAPOLIS IN THE MURDER TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN.

ANDREA CABRAL AND RAHSAAN HALL JOIN ME ON THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE MOMENT AND WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN FOR THE FUTURE OF POLICING.

THEN, LATER, A ROADBLOCK IN THE RACE TO VACCINATE FASTER THAN COVID CAN SPREAD: THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON SINGLE-DOSE SHOT IS STILL ON PAUSE WHILE PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS INVESTIGATE A HANDFUL OF BLOOD CLOT CASES.

BUT UNIVERSITY OF DENVER LAW PROFESSOR AND BIOETHICIST GOVIND PERSAD ARGUES THE CONTINUED DELAY IS LETHAL.

HE'LL ALSO SPEAK TO VACCINE MANDATES AND OUR OBLIGATION TO OTHER NATIONS.

PLUS, ADAM REILLY TAKES A LOOK AT A UNIQUELY BOSTON PHENOMENON: EVERY MAYOR, PAST AND PRESENT, WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THE CITY.

AND, FINALLY, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE MANY WE'VE LOST TO COVID.

>> Braude: YOU COULD ALMOST HEAR A COLLECTIVE SIGH OF RELIEF ACROSS THE COUNTRY THIS AFTERNOON AFTER A JUDGE READ OUT THIS VERDICT FROM A JURY IN MINNEAPOLIS: GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY.

DEREK CHAUVIN NOW COULD FACE SEVERAL DECADES IN PRISON FOR SECOND DEGREE UNINTENTIONAL MURDER, THIRD-DEGREE MURDER, AND SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER.

I'M JOINED BY FORMER MASSACHUSETTS PUBLIC SAFETY SECRETARY AND SUFFOLK COUNTY SHERIFF, ANDREA CABRAL, AND THE DIRECTOR OF ACLU MASSACHUSETTS' RACIAL JUSTICE PROGRAM, RAHSAAN HALL.

>> Braude: RAHSAAN AND ANDREA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON SUCH SHORT NOTICES.

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: ANDREA, IF I CAN START WITH YOU, OBVIOUSLY WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE VERDICT, AND WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THE VERDICT?

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING OPENING QUESTION BECAUSE HE MURDERED A MAN IN BROAD DAYLIGHT, WHILE BEING FILMED, UNDER COLOR OF STATE LAW, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY THE FAMILY OF GEORGE FLOYD GOT A $27 MILLION SETTLEMENT.

I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE SURPRISED BY THE VERDICT, AND I THINK REALLY THAT IS WHAT THE CONVERSATION SHOULD BE ABOUT, THE STARTING CONVERSATION FROM THIS VERDICT.

OF COURSE HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY.

HE WAS GUILTY.

BUT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IT TOOK TO GET A JURY THERE IN LIGHT OF ALL OF THE HISTORY, AND WE SHOULD HAVE SOME VERY, VERY SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT NOT LETTING THIS BE A ONE-OFF BECAUSE IT IS NOT.

DEREK CHAUVIN IS PROBABLY THE MOST PUBLIC OR ONE OF THE MOST PUBLIC EXECUTIONS, BUT HE IS HARDLY ALONE.

>> Braude: I WANT TO GET BACK TO YOU ON NOT LETTING IT BE A ONE-OFF IN A SECOND, BUT I'M GOING TO THROW CAUTION IN THE WIND AND ASK THE SAME QUESTION OF YOU YOU, RAHSAAN, YOUR REACTION TO THE VERDICT AN HOUR OR SO AFTER.

>> IT IS VERY SIMILAR TO ANDREA'S.

I MEAN, THIS WAS THE LOW-HANGING FRUIT.

THIS WAS THE CASE WHERE THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE GUILTY VERDICT.

WE WATCHED A MAN BE MURDERED ON TV.

THE PEOPLE, ASIDE FROM HIMSELF PLEADING FOR HIS LIFE, BUT PEOPLE AROUND HIM PLEADING FOR HIS LIFE.

BUT YET WE WENT INTO THE TRIAL DOUBTING WHETHER WE'D GET THE OUTCOME BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN SO MUCH INJUSTICE.

SO AS MUCH AS THIS MAY BE A REVELATORY MOMENT, THAT THERE IS SOME SEMBLANCE OF JUSTICE IN THIS SYSTEM, IT STILL DOESN'T GET TO THE HEART OF THE WAY POLICING HAPPENS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, WHERE SOME OF THE HARMS ARE JUST AS EGREGIOUS, WHETHER THEY RESULT IN DEATH, BUT NOT LIKELY TO GET THE SAME.

>> Braude: LET'S TALK ABOUT BOTH THOSE THINGS.

ANDREA, IN TERMS OF WHETHER IN A ONE-OFF OR NOT, DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING WHETHER IT IS WOULD PROSECUTORS CHARGE IN THESE KINDS OF CASES, WHAT JURIES RULE IN THESE CASE, HAVING THE VICTIM BE ON TRIAL IN THESE CASES, COPS TESTIFYING AGAINST COPS, LIKE HAPPENED HERE -- IS THERE A TRICKLE-OUT EFFECT FROM THE CHAUVIN CASE?

>> THERE WILL BE SOME EFFECT, BUT IT WON'T BE NEARLY WHAT IS NECESSARY, BECAUSE WHAT IS ACTUALLY NECESSARY IS FOR THIS COUNTRY TO FACE WHAT POLICING AND PUBLIC SAFETY MEANS TO ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THIS K.IT MEANS COUNTRY.

IT MEANS VERY DIFFERENT THINGS TO WHITE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY THAN IT DOES TO PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND UNTIL WE ACTUALLY FACE IT AND CHANGE IT, THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A PATTERN OR A CONSISTENT AMOUNT OF CHANGE THAT IS NECESSARY.

YES, THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A FEW MORE POLICE DEPARTMENTS WHERE THERE ARE OFFICERS WILLING TO TESTIFY AGAINST OTHER OFFICERS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, TRIALS ARE VERY UNIQUE, VERY SPECIFIC THINGS.

YOU COULD HAVE PICKED A DIFFERENT JURY AND GOTTEN AN ACQUITTAL.

IF THERE HAD BEEN A DIFFERENT JURY, IT IS POSSIBLE THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN AN ACQUITTAL.

SO THE CONVERSATION HAS TO BE MUCH MORE THAN WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS TRIAL IN THIS CHARGES.

IT IS ALMOST IRRELEVANT TO THE CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE.

>> Braude: IT SEEMS TO ME, RAHSAAN, THAT SECOND CONVERSATION THAT ANDREA HAS MENTIONED, SHOULD AT LEAST INCLUDE WHAT WE READ THE OTHER DAY, I THINK IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES," THAT DURING THE TRIAL ITSELF, 64 PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WERE KILLED BY POLICE OFFICERS, THE MAJORITY OF WHOM WERE BLACK OR BROWN.

DOES THE CHAUVIN CASE, AND THAT STARTING, AT LEAST TO ME, NUMBER, SHAKE ANYTHING LOOSE IN THIS -- I WAS GOING TO SAY DEBATE, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A DEBATE -- IN WHAT SHOULD BE A DEBATE IN THIS COUNTRY, RAHSAAN?

>> I THINK THEIR DECISION TO CONVICT CHAUVIN, THE DOESN'T NEGATE THE FACT THAT MR. FLOYD'S TRAGIC MURDER IS A PART OF A HORRIFYING PATTERN OF OFFICERS USING EXCESSIVE FORCE AGAINST PEOPLE OF COLOR.

MR. FLOYD IS ONE OF MORE THAN 5,000 PEOPLE KILLED BY POLICE SINCE 2015.

AND SO THIS IS, AGAIN, A BRIEF MOMENT IN TIME, BUT WITHIN THESE WEEKS, WE SAW THE MURDER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT AND ADAM TOLEDO, AND THESE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE, AND IN ONE INSTANCE, A CHILD.

I BELIEVE THE CONVERSATION HAS CHANGED IN THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT, AS MUCH AS IT HAS CHANGED IN 2013, '14, '15, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT AFTER PHILANDO CASTILE, PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SAID THIS IS ENOUGH, BUT, STILL, THIS IS WHERE WE ARE.

SO UNTIL WE CHANGE -- I ALWAYS SAY THE ONLY WAY TO GET RID OF POLICE VIOLENCE IS TO GET RID OF POLICING IN THE WAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND.

>> Braude: SO DOES THAT HAPPEN?

WE WOULD SUPPOSED TO HAVE THIS GREAT RACIAL RECKONING, TOO, NOT JUST AROUND POLICING IN THIS COUNTRY, AFTER THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD.

IT HAS HAPPENED IN SOME QUARTERS.

BUT IT HASN'T HAPPENED TO THE LEVEL, AT LEAST IN MY JUDGMENT, RAHSAAN, THAT WAS PREDIRECTEDDIRECT PREDICTED BY SO MANY WELL-OBSERVED PEOPLE AROUND MEMORIAL DAY.

>> I THINK DR. KING'S REPRESENTATION (indiscernable) IT TAKES ALL OF US IN THE FACT THAT JUSTICE IS A LONG WAY OFF, BUT AT LEAST IT IS BENDING.

WHILE THERE ARE SOME FOLKS OUT THERE WHO ARE TRYING TO GET A 90-DEGREE ANGLE IN THAT ARCH.

I THINK THE CALLS FOR RACIAL RECONCILIATION, RACIAL CONVERSATION, ARE SO -- WILL NOT YIELD THE TYPE OF RESULTS THAT WE NEED WHEN WE HAVE SUCH A DEEPLY-ROOTED ISSUE AROUND RACE IN THE INCEPTION OF THIS NATION THAT IS BUILT INTO THE FABRIC OF WHO WE ARE.

>> Braude: ANDREA, LET ME SUGGEST ONE THING THAT II THINK MAY, IN CONCERT WITH A SPEEDY AND DECISIVE GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY, MAY PRECIPITATE THE KIND OF DISCUSSION AND REFORM, BUT MAYBE I'M BEING NAIVE.

WE WENT FROM WHEN THE LOOTIN' STARTS THE SHOOTIN' STARTS PRESIDENT TO A GUY YESTERDAY WHO SAID THAT HE PRAYED THAT THE JURY WOULD MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION.

AND WHILE HE NEVER SAID THE WORD GUILTY, HE ALSO SAID THE EVIDENCE WAS OVERWHELMING.

SO PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS SAYING HE WAS PRAYING FOR A GUILTY VERDICT IN THIS TRIAL.

DOES THAT TENURE FROM THE MAN AT THE TOP, PARTICULARLY CONSIDERING WHO HEFIELD, HE FOLLOWED, CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE DISCUSSIONS, THE DEBATE, THE CONVERSATIONS YOU TWO WERE TALKING ABOUT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN?

>> LEADERSHIP MATTERS, AND ACTION FOLLOWS GOOD LEADERSHIP THAT MATTERS.

SO I THINK WE'LL SEE THAT FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

WE'LL SEE THAT IN THE LEADERSHIP OF MERRICK GARLAND.

SO THAT HAPPEN -- SOME OF THAT WILL HAPPEN.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS KILLINGS OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE CONTINUE TO HAPPEN AT THE HANDS OF POLICE.

AND WHEN PEOPLE TAKE TO THE STREETS IN PROTEST, AND THEY HAVE DONE THAT IN RECORD NUMBERS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS -- IT IS ASTONISHING HOW MUCH REGULAR PEOPLE FEEL COMPELLED NOW TO BECOME ACTIVISTS AND TO MAKE THEIR VOICES HEARD.

BUT EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS, LEADERS, BOTH BLACK AND WHITE, CALL FOR CALM AND TELL PEOPLE THAT VIOLENCE ISN'T THE ANSWER.

WELL, VIOLENCE IS WHAT BROUGHT PEOPLE TO THOSE STREETS TO BEGIN WITH.

AND UNTIL LEADERSHIP, NOT JUST IN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT EVERY GOVERNOR, EVERY MAYOR -- AND WE KNOW WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT IN RED STATES -- EVERY GOVERNOR, EVERY MAYOR, EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN ELECTED LEADERSHIP BEGINS TO SHOW LEADERSHIP AROUND THIS AND BEGINS TO CONFRONT IT.

I KEEP CALLING IT A CONVERSATION.

THAT'S WRONG.

IT'S CONFRONTATION WITH A NATION'S HISTORY THAT BROUGHT US TO THE POINT WHERE WE ARE NOW, WHERE MAYBE SOMEONE LIKE JOE BIDEN ISN'T GOING TO BE ENOUGH BECAUSE AS "60 MINUTES" SHOWED US, WITH MR. OATHKEEPER WHO WAS INTERVIEWED -- LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE MILITARY HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED STEADILY SINCE 2009, AND WE'RE SEEING THE RESULTS OF THAT AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT NOW.

SO GETTING A HANDLE ON IT NOW IS GOING TO LOOK A LOT DIFFERENT THAN IT WOULD HAVE IN 2009.

>> Braude: ANDREA, YOU'RE A FORMER PROSECUTOR.

IS A FAIR-MINDED PROSECUTOR WHO WAS RELUCTANT TO DO WHAT KEITH ELLISON DID IN MINNESOTA MORE LIKELY TO BE WILLING TO GO WHERE THE FACTS TAKE HIM OR HER AS A RESULT OF THIS CASE, OR NO?

>> IT DEPENDS ENTIRELY ON WHAT VOTERS ARE TELLING THAT ELECTED OFFICIAL TO DO.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ATTORNEY GENERAL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, OR A D.A.

THE ACLU'S PROGRAM, "WHAT A DIFFERENCE A D.A.

MAKES," NOTHING CAN BE MORE TRUE, AND THAT'S ALWAYS OF ATTORNEY GENERALS.

SO IF THE MESSAGE THEY'RE GETTING IS THAT YOU WILL DO THE RIGHT THING, YOU WILL INVESTIGATE AND BRING CHARGES WHERE THEY'RE WARRANTED, THEN ATTORNEYS GENERAL WILL DO IT.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF ATTORNEYS GENERAL, LAST THING FROM MY, RAHSAAN, LET'S SPEAK ABOUT MERRICK GARLAND, WHAT DOES HE DOES TOMORROW TO SHOW THAT THIS IS NOT A ONE AND DONE?

WHAT DO WE NEED TO HEAR FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE?

>> I THINK WHAT IS WARRANTED IS AN AFFIRMATION OF THIS VERDICT AND RECOGNIZING THAT WHAT THIS VERDICT COMMUNICATES IS SOMETHING THAT IS EVER PRESENT IN POLICING THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, AND, THEREFORE, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE IS GOING TO TAKE A RENEWED EFFORT IN INVESTIGATING PATTERN AND PRACTICE CASES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS THE MOST EXTREME EXAMPLE, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER EXAMPLES THAT WARRANT THE SAME TYPE OF INVESTIGATION AND DISCIPLINE AND EXPOSURE BECAUSE IT GOES TO THE VERY CORE OF THE PROBLEMS IN POLICING.

>> Braude: RAHSAAN HALL, ANDREA CABRAL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I HOPE YOU'LL COME BACK SOON TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> AROUND THE WORLD, THE CORONAVIRUS IS SPREADING FASTER THAN EVER, SETTING A RECORD OF 5.2 MILLION NEW CASES LAST WEEK, AS THE GLOBAL DEATH TOLL ROSE PAST THREE MILLION.

IN THIS COUNTRY, CASES ARE STILL SLOWLY TRENDING UP, AS A NEW POLL SHOWS FEWER AMERICANS ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS AGAINST COVID, LIKE SOCIAL DISTANCING, THOUGH CALLS ARE GROWING TO END MASK-WEARING IN MOST OUTDOOR SETTINGS.

AND WHILE MANY ARE PUTTING THEIR HOPES IN THE COUNTRY'S VACCINE ROLLOUT, WITH ALL ADULTS IN THE U.S. OFFICIALLY ELIGIBLE AS OF YESTERDAY, AND MORE THAN HALF OF THAT GROUP NOW AT LEAST PARTIALLY VACCINATED, A RECENT DECISION OUT OF THE C.D.C.

IS THREATENING TO SLOW THAT PROGRESS.

THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON SINGLE-SHOT VACCINE HAS NOW BEEN ON HOLD FOR A WEEK IN THE U.S. OVER REPORTS BLOOD CLOTS APPEARED IN SIX WOMEN WHO HAD RECENTLY RECEIVED THE VACCINE, ONE OF WHOM DIED.

WHILE THE EUROPEAN UNION'S MEDICINES AGENCY DECIDED TODAY THAT THE BENEFITS OF THE SHOT OUTWEIGH THE RISKS, THE C.D.C.

'S ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES HAS DECIDED TO WAIT FOR MORE INFORMATION BEFORE THEY MAKE THE CALL, WHICH THEY'RE NOT EXPECTED TO DO UNTIL THIS FRIDAY, AT THE EARLIEST.

IT'S A MOVE MY NEXT GUEST CALLED "A DEADLY MISTAKE," IN AN OP-ED HE CO-WROTE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST."

I'M JOINED NOW BY GOVIND PERSAD, AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF DENVER STURM COLLEGE OF LAW AND A FACULTY SCHOLAR IN BIOETHICS AT THE GREENWALL FOUNDATION.

GOVIND PERSAD, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Braude: WHY A DEADLY MISTAKE TO EXTEND THE STAY?

>> SO WHAT THEY WERE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHEN THEY WROTE THE OP-ED WAS ESPECIALLY AFTER LOOKING AT THE MEETING AND SEEING THE WAY THAT SOME OF THE STATE PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS HAD RAISED CONCERNS, THE MAIN PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIAL, DR. SHAH, WHO REPRESENTS THE ASSOCIATION OF STATE HEALTH OFFICIALS, SAID, ", LOOK, YOUSAID,"LOOK, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER IF EVEN PAUSING FOR A WEEK MAY LIMIT ACCESS FOR SOME FOLKS IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC."

AND OUR CONCERN WAS THE FEELING THAT THE DECISION-MAKING AND THINKING ABOUT, AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, RISKS AND BENEFITS, DIDN'T TAKE SUFFICIENT ACCOUNT OF THE FACT THAT A LOT OF FOLKS MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GET ACCESS TO A DIFFERENT VACCINE RIGHT AWAY.

AND PAUSING IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT VERY SERIOUSLY GIVEN THE RISKS OF THE COVID-19 VIRUS.

>> Braude: AND OBVIOUSLY A SINGLE-SHOT IS THE BEST WAY TO GO WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE HARD TO FIND, HARD TO GET BACK TO, UNLIKELY TO COME FOR A SECOND SHOT.

SO DOES YOUR REASONING EXTEND TO THE ORIGINAL STAY, EVEN IF THERE IS A CAUSAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE BLOOD CLOTS AND THAT DEATH, AND THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON VACCINE?

THAT'S ONE DEATH OUT OF SEVEN MILLION ADMINISTERED, AS OPPOSED TO THOUSANDS OF DEATHS WE KNOW ARE HAPPENING STILL EVERY SINGLE WEEK FROM COVID ITSELF.

SHOULD THERE HAVE BEEN A PAUSE EVEN TO BEGIN WITH?

>> I THINK THE INITIAL PAUSE -- IT'S A TOUGH CALL.

I THINK THE ARGUMENT -- THE FIRST THING I'LL SAY IS I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE WITH THE FOLKS WHO SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST SHOVED IT UNDER THE RUG AND NOT SAID ANYTHING.

I THINK YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO BE TRANSPARENT WITH THE PUBLIC.

THE QUESTION IS TO SHARE THE INFORMATION ABOUT A RARE POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECT, GIVEN IT TENDED TO SHOW UP SIX OR MORE DAYS AFTER, DID YOU NEED TO PAUSE ACCESS FOR EVERYONE TO DO THAT?

I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION IT POSSESS.

FOLKS GO EITHER WAY ON THAT.

DR. ASHISH SHAH, THE DEAN OF BROWN IN THE PUBLIC HEALTH SCHOOL, SAW INITIAL SENSE IN THE WAY OF GETTING THAT INFORMATION OUT.

BUT REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU GO, EVERY DAY YOU KEEP THE PAUSE GOING, NOW THAT YOU SHARED THAT INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO TREAT THE SIDE EFFECT, IT GETS HARDER TO DEFEND BECAUSE THE EXPLANATION ISN'T ANYMORE, LOOK, WE NEED TO SHARE THIS NEW INFORMATION ABOUT HOW TO TREAT YOUR PATIENT.

IT STARTS TO LOOK HARDER TO SAY THAT NOBODY SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

>> Braude: EVEN IF ACCESS AND AVAILABILITY WAS DEALT WITH, OBVIOUSLY THE OTHER ISSUE WE'VE ALL BEEN THINKING AND TALKING ABOUT NON-STOP IS HESITANCY, AND HESITANCY AMONGST PEOPLE OF COLOR, PARTICULARLY BLACK PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY, IS GOING DOWN.

AND IT IS GOING UP AMONGST WHITE PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY REPUBLICANS, PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN COUNTIES WHERE DONALD TRUMP WON IN 2020.

HERE IS ANTHONY FAUCI YESTERDAY ON HOW TO DEAL WITH HESITANCY.

HERE IS DR. FAUCI.

>> Doctor: WHAT WE SAY TO ANYONE WHO HAS DOUBTS ABOUT GETTING A VACCINE, WE LEAVE IT UP TO YOU.

LOOK AT THE DATA.

THE DATA SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

WE ALL WANT NORMALCY IN AMERICA.

THE HIGHWAY TO THAT NORMALCY IS VACCINATION.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, I GENERALLY SWEAR BY FAUCI, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, BUT NOT HERE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUES IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE WE MANDATE THAT PEOPLE DO CERTAIN THINGS FOR THE GREATER PUBLIC HEALTH GOOD.

IF YOU PUT ON YOUR ETHICAL HAT AND PUT ASIDE THE LEGAL ISSUES -- I KNOW IT IS ONLY EMERGENCY USE AUTHORIZATION, AS OPPOSED TO FULL LICENSURE AND THAT SORT OF THING -- IS IT NOT ETHICALLY APPROPRIATE FOR THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF OR INDIVIDUAL BUSINESSES, INDIVIDUAL INSTITUTIONS, TO MANDATE THAT PEOPLE UNDER THEIR WATCH GET VACCINATED?

>> I THINK RIGHT NOW THIS IS A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION THAT A LOT OF ETHICAL AND LEGAL FOLKS ARE THINKING HARD ABOUT.

I THINK IT DEPENDS A LOT ON WHAT SETTING YOU'RE IN.

I THINK THE CASE WHERE MANDATES SEEM THE MOST COMPELLING TO ME RIGHT NOW IS WHERE THE PEOPLE YOU ARE COMING INTO CONTACT WITH DON'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO BE EXPOSED TO RISK IN DOING SOMETHING.

SO WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT FOLKS WHO ARE PATIENTS IN HOSPITALS, FOLKS WHO ARE IN LONG-TERM CARE FACILITIES, OBVIOUSLY.

PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISON AND BEING WATCHED OVER BY GUARDS, MAYBE IN DETENTION FACILITIES.

THOSE FOLKS DON'T HAVE A CHOSE, AND SO I THINK THERE IS A COMPELLING CASE TO BE MADE THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERACTING WITH THEM OUGHT TO BE EITHER VACCINATED OR HAVE A VERY GOOD REASON NOT TO BE VACCINATED.

I DON'T THINK WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT NOW, ABOUT THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON PAUSE, AFFECTS THAT BECAUSE SOON, ESPECIALLY WITH ELIGIBILITY OPENING UP, THERE SHOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO BE VACCINATED GOING FORWARD.

SO ONCE (A) WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO CAN BE VACCINATED, I THINK YOU HAVE TO START LOOKING INITIALLY WHERE ARE PEOPLE COMING INTO CONTACT WITH HIGH-RISK FOLKS WHO DON'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT COMING INTO CONTACT WITH THEM.

AND FOLKS WHO ARE COMING INTO CONTACT WITH THOSE HIGH-RISK PEOPLE, I THINK IS A STRONG ARGUMENT FOR SAYING THAT A MANDATE MAKES SENSE.

>> Braude: ONE LAST ETHICAL THING FOR ME.

I WAS STUNNED WHEN I READ YOUR PIECE.

I THINK YOU WROTE IT WITH ZEKE EMMANUEL ABOUT OUR OBLIGATION TO THE WORLD.

WE TALKED WITH DR. CURRIE ABOUT THE FACT THAT COVAX HAS GOTTEN SOMEWHERE AROUND 80 MILLION DOSES OUT TO 80 COUNTRIES, WHICH IS NOT EVEN A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL I READ YOUR PIECE, WE HAD THREE MILLION DOSES OF ASTRAZENECA IN WAREHOUSES IN THE UNITED STATES, AND OBVIOUSLY ASTRAZENECA HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED HERE, THAT WE ARE KEEPING HERE RATHER THAN SHIPPING OUT TO POORER NATIONS THAT HAVE VIRTUALLY NOTHING.

WHAT IS OUR OBLIGATION TO OTHER COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD THAT DON'T HAVE OUR WEALTH AND ACCESS?

>> I THINK THERE ARE A BUNCH OF THINGS THAT WE COULD BE DOING MUCH MORE.

ONE IS, I THINK THE COUNTRY -- IT IS REASONABLE FOR THEM TO PRIORITIZE VACCINATING THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

BUT AS YOU SAY WITH THE ASTRAZENECA, OR I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON IS VERY HARD TO DEFEND IN THAT RESPECT.

RIGHT NOW WE JUST HAVE A LOT OF THIS SITTING IN FREEZERS.

IF YOU LOOK JUST ACROSS THE BORDER, JUST NORTH FROM WHERE YOU ARE, AND FROM WHERE I AM IN CANADA, THEY'RE DEALING WITH A HORRIBLE COVID-19 OUTBREAK.

WHEN WE SAY THERE IS PLENTY OF OTHER VACCINES, IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE THAT VACCINE, WE SHOULD AT LEAST OFFER THEM THE OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK SINCE THEY'RE ALREADY USING THE mRNA VACCINES, WE SHOULD USE THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON AND SHARE IT WITH PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE NOTHING.

AND BEYOND THAT, I THINK THERE IS A REALLY STRONG ARGUMENT FOR US TRYING TO USE OUR RESOURCES TO HELP BUILD CAPACITY TO MANUFACTURE MORE VACCINE ABROAD.

I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE SORT OF BUILDING UP THOSE SUPPLY CHAINS, AND MANUFACTURING IS GOING TO BE THE WAY OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC WORLDWIDE.

I'M HOPING, ESPECIALLY AS WE MOVE PAST HAVING A SUPPLY SHORTAGE HERE HOPING INHOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, THAT WE FOCUS ON WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP THINGS GLOBALLY.

>> Braude: I SHARE YOUR HOPE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: IT'S ALREADY BEEN A YEAR OF FIRSTS IN BOSTON POLITICS.

ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY IS THE FIRST WOMAN AND THE FIRST BLACK BOSTONIAN TO LEAD THE CITY, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY, AND COME NOVEMBER, THE WINNER OF THE MAYORAL ELECTION HAS A GOOD CHANCE OF BEING THE FIRST PERSON OF COLOR TO WIN THE JOB OUTRIGHT.

BUT, LATELY, ANOTHER BIT OF HISTORY HAS BEEN COMING TO THE FORE, UNLIKE, SAY, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR BLOOMBERG, BORN RIGHT HERE IN BOSTON, THIS CITY HAS A LONG-STANDING REFUSAL TO ELECT A MAYOR WHO WASN'T BORN AND RAISED HERE.

ADAM REILLY HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: WHEN ACTING MAYOR KIM JANEY WAS SWORN IN, SHE TOUTED HER FAMILY'S LONG HISTORY IN BOSTON.

>> DEEP ROOTS IN THE SOUTH END AND SIX GENERATIONS IN ROXBURY.

>> Reporter: AS SHE RUNS FOR MAYOR, CITY COUNCILOR ANDREA CAMPBELL IS ALSO PLAYING UP HER BOSTON ROOTS.

>> BORN AND RAISED IN BOSTON, IN ROXBURY, IN THE SOUTH END.

I WENT TO FIVE BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> Reporter: THERE'S A SUBTEXT HERE.

THE FIRST CANDIDATE IN THE RACE, CITY COUNCILOR MICHELLE WU, WASN'T BORN AND RAISED IN BOSTON.

SHE CAME TO MASSACHUSETTS FROM SUBURBAN CHICAGO FOR COLLEGE, LATER CALLING THE NORTH END, THE SOUTH END, AND ROSLINDALE HOME.

BEFORE THE ST. PATRICK'S DAY BREAKFAST, STATE SENATOR NICK COLLINS MADE THAT POINT DIRECTLY.

WHEN WU RELEASED A VIDEO FOR THE EVENT, IMITATING A HARRIED BEN AFFLECK, COLLINS JIBED: "WHAT ELSE DO AFFLECK AND WU HAVE IN COMMON?

THEY BOTH LOVE ACTING LIKE THEY'RE FROM BOSTON."

SO WHY THE FOCUS ON THIS DETAIL?

WE ASKED ABOUT A SERIES OF CHARACTERISTICS OF THE NEXT MAYOR, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THERE -- OR THAT VOTERS SAID WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT -- WAS SOMEONE WHO GREW UP IN BOSTON.

STEVE KOCZELA OF MassINC POLLING GROUP SIZED UP THE RACE LAST FALL, WHEN WU WAS THE ONLY DECLARED CANDIDATE.

AMONG BLACK VOTERS, THAT PREFERENCE WAS ESPECIALLY STRONG: 60% CALLED IT VERY IMPORTANT.

BUT THERE'S A CATCH.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT VOTERS OFTEN DO IS THEY'LL TRIANGULATE BACKWARDS FROM THE CANDIDATE THEY'RE SUPPORTING TO THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THAT CANDIDATE BEING IMPORTANT.

SO IF YOU'RE A SUPPORTER OF JOE BIDEN'S, DECADES OF EXPERIENCE IS IMPORTANT.

>> Reporter: OR MAYBE, IF YOU LIKED MARTY WALSH, THE FACT HE GREW UP IN BOSTON WAS IMPORTANT.

STILL, THERE'S A HISTORY HERE.

OTHER BIG CITIES ELECT MAYORS WHO AREN'T FROM THERE.

THINK NEW YORK, PHILADELPHIA, CHICAGO.

THE LAST BOSTON MAYOR WHO WASN'T A NATIVE WAS LACTED IN 1925, MALCOLM NICHOLS, FROM PORTLAND, MAINE.

AS FOR WU, SHE SAYS SHE'S HEARD THIS STUFF BEFORE.

>> I HAVE HAD THE PRIVILEGE AND THE HONOR OF REPRESENTING THE ENTIRE CITY FOR EIGHT YEARS NOW.

IT'S NOT NEW TO BE REMINDED SOMETIMES OF THE WAYS IN WHICH I MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM A LOT OF THE TYPICAL BOSTON POLITICIANS, IN MANY WAYS.

>> Reporter: BUT WU ALSO SAYS BOSTON VOTERS ARE FOCUSED ON ISSUES, NOT ORIGINS.

>> NEEDS WITHIN OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM, HOW OUR ECONOMY IS GOING, SMALL BUSINESSES, FAMILIES, THE DAY-TO-DAY EXPERIENCES.

>> Reporter: SOMETIMES, WU ADDS, PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE A PLACE CAN OFFER DIFFERENT INSIGHTS ABOUT IT.

AND, SHE SAYS, IF SHE WASN'T FROM BOSTON BEFORE, SHE IS NOW.

>> I WASN'T LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE BORN IN BOSTON, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN TO MAKE THIS MY HOME, HAVE HAD THE CHANCE TO RAISE MY KIDS HERE, TO HAVE RAISED MY SISTERS HERE AS WELL, AS MY MOM WAS LIVING WITH MENTAL ILLNESS.

BOSTON HAS TRULY GIVEN US EVERYTHING THAT WE CHERISH IN MY FAMILY.

>> Reporter: MORE RECENT HISTORY MAY BE ON WU'S SIDE.

LATELY, TWO OTHER ILLINOIS TRANSPLANTS HAVE FARED PRETTY WELL.

AND WU TOPPED THE AT-LARGE TICKET IN THE LAST TWO ELECTIONS, IN A CITY WHERE TWO-THIRDS OF ADULTS AREN'T FROM MASSACHUSETTS AT ALL.

>> Braude: FOR THE RECORD, THAT LARGE NUMBER OF BOSTON ADULTS BORN OUTSIDE MASSACHUSETTS DOES INCLUDE COLLEGE STUDENTS, WHO DON'T USUALLY TURN OUT IN BIG NUMBERS IN CITY ELECTIONS.

ALSO, ONE OTHER CANDIDATE, STATE REP JON SANTIAGO, ISN'T A BOSTON LIFER EITHER, BUT HE WAS STILL A KID WHEN HIS FAMILY MOVED HERE FROM PUERTO RICO.

FINALLY TONIGHT, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE COVID DEATH TOLL, WITH THE HELP OF THE "FACES OF COVID TWITTER ACCIDENT.

68-YEAR-OLD KEVIN MCCREE OF MANSFIELD, WHOSE FAMILY WROTE THAT HE WAS A GREAT DANCER, WHO LOVED JAZZ AND CLASSICAL MUSIC, ESPECIALLY WAGNER, TCHAIKOVSKY, AND MILES DAVIS, AND HAD A PASSION FOR CIVIL RIGHTS.

75-YEAR-OLD SAMUEL ARMSTRONG OF SPRINGFIELD.

HIS FAMILY DESCRIBED HIM AS HAVING A SUBTLE SENSE OF HUMAN AND A KIND SMILE.

AND THAT HE WAS SOFT-SPOKEN, MODEST, HUMBLE, GENEROUS, TRUSTWORTHY, AND LOYAL IN HIS RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHERS.

AND MARIE CUSHING OF HAMPTON, NEW HAMPSHIRE.

HER FAMILY WROTE THAT SHE WAS A LIFELONG ADVOCATE AND ROLE MODEL AS AN EDUCATOR, MOTHER, GRANDMOTHER, AND GREAT GRANDMOTHER, FOR PROMOTING AN EARLY LOVE OF READING.

IF YOU LOST SOMEONE YOU LOVE TO THE PANDEMIC AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE THEIR STORY, PLEASE VISIT twitter.com/faces of Covid.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

THE FORMER MAYOR OF SAN JUAN, PUERTO RICO, AND THAT'S TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org