>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": A MINNEAPOLIS JURY HAS HELD DEREK CHAUVIN ACCOUNTABLE, AND NOW THE D.O.J.

IS PLEDGING TO HOLD HIS WHOLE DEPARTMENT ACCOUNTABLE, TOO.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY?

FROM HERE IN BOSTON TO COLUMBUS, OHIO, WHERE AN OFFICER SHOT AND KILLED A 16-YEAR-OLD GIRL LESS THAN AN HOUR BEFORE THE CHAUVIN VERDICT WAS READ.

SUFFOLK DISTRICT ATTORNEY RACHAEL ROLLINS AND HARVARD'S RON SULLIVAN JOIN ME.

THEN, LATER, A LOOK AT HOW STUDENTS ARE DOING IN EVERETT, A CITY HIT HARD BY COVID.

AND, FINALLY, "BOSTON GLOBE" ENVIRONMENTAL REPORTER DAVID ABEL ON HIS NEW FILM, "ENTANGLED," ABOUT THE RISKS ONE OF THE MOST ENDANGERED SPECIES IN THE WORLD, THE NORTH ATLANTIC RIGHT WHALE, IS FACING RIGHT HERE IN NEW ENGLAND.

>>> HOURS AFTER A JURY DECLARED EX-MINNEAPOLIS POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES FOR THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD, ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND ANNOUNCED THIS MORNING HE'S LAUNCHING AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE ENTIRE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> THE CHALLENGES WE FACE ARE DEEPLY WOVEN INTO OUR HISTORY.

THEY DID NOT ARISE TODAY, OR LAST YEAR.

BUILDING TRUST BETWEEN COMMUNITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL TAKE TIME AND EFFORT BY ALL OF US.

>> Braude: AND YESTERDAY, JUST BEFORE THE VERDICT CAME IN, IN COLUMBUS, OHIO, POLICE SHOT AND KILLED 16-YEAR-OLD MA'KHIA BRYANT WHEN RESPONDING TO REPORTS OF A POSSIBLE STABBING.

IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS, A POLICE OFFICER ON THE SCENE DECLARED, "BLUE LIVES MATTER."

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS ARE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY RACHAEL ROLLINS AND RON SULLIVAN, HARVARD LAW PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE INSTITUTE AT HARVARD, WHO REPRESENTED AARON HERNANDEZ IN HIS SECOND MURDER TRIAL, AND HELPED THE FAMILY OF MICHAEL BROWN WIN A $1.5 MILLION SETTLEMENT FROM THE CITY OF FERGUSON, MISSOURI.

>> Braude: RON, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

DISTRICT ATTORNEY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> Braude: IF I CAN START WITH YOU, D.A.

ROLLINS, WE ALL HEARD JOE BIDEN TELL THE DAUGHTER OF GEORGE FLOYD THAT HER DADDY CHANGED THE WORLD.

EVEN MEDIA PEOPLE ARE JOINING IN THE CHORUS, SAYING THAT DARNEL FRASER, THE COURAGEOUSÑ 17-YEAR-OLD WHO VIDEOED THE WHOLE MURDER CHANGED THEçL WILLt( ANYTHING CHANGE AS A RESULT OFñ CONVICTION?

>> WE CERTAINLY, I THINK, PIVOTED, FOR SURE.

IT IS A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE MOVEMENT WILL CONTINUE.

II THINK WE, AS A COUNTRY, LIKE TO LOOK AT ONE THING AND SAY, SEE, WE CHANGED IT, RIGHT?

THERE IS NO LONGER RACISM.

DEVAL PATRICK WAS THE GOVERNOR, SO WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING?

HE IS ONE OF HOWEVER MANY.

OR BARACK OBAMA IS THE PRESIDENT, THERE[ÑÑ9i IS NO LONGER RACISM.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE, JIM, THAT THE HARD WORK THATñr ACTIVISTS, LEGISLATURE, BOTH AT THE STATE, LOCAL, AND FEDERAL LEVELS, ARE DOINGñr THATÑi WE BECAUSE ALTHOUGH THERE WAS A VERDICT IN FAVOR OF THE FLOYD FAMILY YESTERDAY, THAT LEGISLATION HASN'T PASSED YET IN OUR CONGRESS.

>> Braude: I WANT TO ADD A THIRD THING TO YOUR LIST, D.A.

ROLLINS, IF I MAY: WHY DO WE NEED REFORM?

CHAUVIN WAS CONVICTED ON ALL COUNTS.

AREN'T WE GOING TO HEAR THAT FROM EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT OF POLICE REFORM?

>> WHAT I WILL SAY BACK IS WE WITNESSED AN EXECUTION.

WE HAD ONE OF THE BEST CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYERS IN THE COUNTRY, QUITE FRANKLY, ON THIS PANEL WITH US.

IF I'M HONEST, I WAS AFRAID THAT THE JURY WAS NOT GOING TO COME BACK WITH THREE GUILTY VERDICTS.

AND WHAT DOES IT TAKE FOR US TO BE LOOKED AT AS HUMAN AND WORTHY OF LIFE?

SO I WOULD PUSH BACK AND SAY, NO, THIS IS NOT ENOUGH, RIGHT?

ONE POLICE OFFICER OUT OF THE THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

AND THEN I WOULD, OF COURSE, POINT TO THE FACT THAT WHILE WE WERE DELIBERATING AND WAITING, THERE WAS A MURDER, RIGHT?

MILES FROM THIS COURTHOUSE.

AND WE'RE DEALING YET WITH EVEN MORE AFTER THE FACT.

>> Braude: I THINK SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT YOU, RON SULLIVAN, WITH THAT COMPLIMENT A SECOND AGO.

AND WHILE NO COPS DID ANYTHING TO STOP CHAUVIN FROM KILLING GEORGE FLOYD, A BUNCH OF COPS HELPED ENSURE THAT CHAUVIN WAS CONVICTED OF KILLING FLOYD.

CAN YOU TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO A CLIENT OF YOURS, KARIELLE HORN WHO DID INTERVENE WHEN A FELLOW COP MIGHT HAVE KILLED A BLACK MAN IN HANDCUFFS A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO.

WHAT HAPPENED TO HER?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT WAS 2006, AND SHE CAME TO THE SCENE OF AN RECEIVED, AND SHE SAW AN UNARMED AFRICAN-AMERICAN MAN IN A CHOKEHOLD.

SHE INTERVENED, AND SHE PULLED THE ARM OFF OF THE SUSPECT, AND SHE, IN FACT, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD SAVED A LIFE THAT DAY.

SHE WAS REPAID FOR HER HEROISM BY THE DEPARTMENT FILING CHARGES AGAINST HER.

THE OFFICER AT THE TIME HIT HER IN THE FACE SO HARD THAT SHE REQUIRED FACIAL RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY.

HE WAS PROMOTED TO SERGEANT.

SHE WAS FIRED A YEAR SHY OF HER PENSION.

LOST HER PENSION, HER HOME.

SHE WAS HOMELESS FOR SOME TIME.

DID ODD JOBS OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS, AND ABOUT A YEAR AGO, I MET HER AND TOOK ON THE CASE, AND WE WENT BACK TO COURT AND ASKED THE COURT TO VACATE THE JUDGMENT IN THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE, AND TO REINSTATE HER, (indiscernable) PUTTING HER BACK IN TIME FOR THE REST OF THE AUDIENCE IN 2010, WHEN SHE WAS TERMINATED, AND GIVE HER HER PENSION BACK AND BACK PAY AND SO FORTH.

IF ONLY GEORGE FLOYD HAD A KARIELLE HORN, HE WOULD BE WALKING TODAY.

>> Braude: MASSACHUSETTS RECENT REFORM MANDATES INTERVENTION WHEN EXCESSIVE FORCE IS BEING USED.

THE GEORGE FLOYD ACT, THAT D.A.

ROLLINS MENTIONED, THAT UNFORTUNATELY IS GOING NOWHERE RIGHT NOW, WOULD MANDATE IT.

IS THAT THE FUTURE?

THAT SEEMS TO BE ONE THING THAT MAY OCCUR AS A RESULT OF WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR CLIENT AND WHAT DIDN'T HAPPEN WHEN GEORGE FLOYD WAS BEING MURDERED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

DEFINITELY.

ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE.

A LOT NEEDS TO BE DONE, BUT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE.

AND THESE SORTS OF LAWS NEED TO BE PASSED STATE BY STATE.

I APPLAUD THE PRESIDENT AND CONGRESS IF THEY, IN FACT, DO PASS THEñr NATIONAL LAW.

BUT D.A.

ROLLINS WILL AFFIRM THAT MOST OF THE WORK OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE GETS DONE STATE BY STATE.

AND PRINCIPLES OF FEDERALISM SUGGEST THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH.

SO WE NEED THESE SORTS OF MANDATORY INTERVENTION LAWS PASSED IN EACH AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL STATE.

>> Braude: D.A.

ROLLINS -- I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.

>> WE SAW THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL GARLAND HAS JUST ANNOUNCED THAT HE IS ESSENTIALLY REPEALING THE POLICY THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL SESSIONS PUT INTO PLACE.

NOW WE HAVE CONSENT DECREES THAT ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE MOVING.

AND HEgñÑwD JUST ANNOUNCED HE WILL BEPL%OKING INTO THISV VERY POLICE DEPARTMENT THATçó NOT ONLY KILLED GEORGE FLOYD,Ñp!UT ALSO DAUNTE WRIGHT.

>> Braude: D.A.

ROLLINS, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON SOMETHING RON SAID A MINUTE AGO ABOUT THIS STATE BY STATE AND BREAK IT DOWN EVEN FURTHER, CITY BY CITY.

I KNOW WE PASSED REFORM ON THE STATE LEVEL.

AND IT IS ALL ABOUT THE IMPLEMENTATION IN MY ESTIMATION, NOT JUST ABOUT THE LAW.

WE ALSO ENDORSE SOMETHING HERE IN BOSTON, BUT I'LL TELL YOU, MU ANALYSIS OF HOW THE CITY AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, DEALT WITH THIS PATRICK ROSE SITUATION, A GUY CREDIBLE CREDIBLELY ACCUSED OF CHILD MOLESTATION, WHO WAS KEPT ON THE FORCE FOR TWO DECADES, AND THEN WAS DRAGGED KICKING AND SCREAMING UNTIL THEY RELEASED EVEN A PART OF THIS INTERNAL AFFAIRS THING.

BY THE WAY, IF THE GLOBE HADN'T EXPOSED IT, I ASSUME THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DONE THAT.

IT DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR ME AS TO WHETHER POLICE AND GOVERNMENT INFRASTRUCTURE SORT OF GET IT HERE IN BOSTON.

AM I WRONG ON THAT FRONT?

>> NOT REALLY.

BUT WHAT I WILL SAY IS LET'S JUST JUXTAPOSE TOES THINGS, PATRICK ROSE, SR. AND OVER HORN.

AND WHAT WE HAVE IS SYSTEMIC THAT IS EVERYWHERE, WITHIN THE POLICE, RIGHT, WHERE WE SEE THAT OFFICERS ARE GIVEN -- CERTAIN OFFICERS ARE GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

I WILL TELL YOU, JIM, I WORK WITH POLICE ALL OF THE TIME.

SO I WILL PUT GOOD MONEY ON THE FACT THAT EVERY ONE OF THEM KNEW THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST PATRICK ROSE, SR., AND THEY STILL VOTED LATER -- VOTED TO HAVEçó HIM ASCEND TO THE HIGHEST-RANKING DIVISION IN THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I ACTUALLY DO THINK, THOUGH, WHEN WE EXPOSE IT, AND WHEN WE GET TO THE UGLY UNDERBELLY, IS WHEN WE'LL BE ABLE TO FINALLY HAVE THOSE TRUTHFUL CONVERSATIONS AND START FROM THE BOTTOM TO BUILD IT BACK UP.

AND I THINK -- >> Braude: RACHAEL ROLLINS, IF I MAY, UNLESS THE GLOBE CONTINUES TO EXPOSE EVERY PATRICK ROSE, SR., WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

IT ISN'T LIKE THERE IS POLICING OF THE POLICE BY THEMSELVES.

AND MAYBE THIS NEW INDEPENDENT BODY OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRAINING IS GOING TO DO IT, BUT "THE BOSTON GLOBE" DID THAT, AND THEN THE CITY HAD TO RESPOND, NO?

>> WELL, YEAH, BUT EVERYONE PLAYS THEIR PART.

I AGREE.

THIS IS PART OF WHY I RAN FOR OFFICE, RIGHT, AND WHY I HAVE THE LEAD DATA BASE, WHY I AM LOOKING BACK AT CONVICTIONS,Ñi AND HAVE OVERTURNED 240 YEARS OF WRONGFULe1Ñiçó CONVICTIONS,ÑiÑi OVERWHELMING BYñrii-i CRIMINAL POLICE."

OFFICERS, OR OFFICERSÑi IFÑi WE COMPLIEDÑiñr WITHñr OUR, YOUÑi KNOW, BRADY REQUIREMENTS OF TURNING OVER INFORMATION ABOUT THEM, OR ASKING BETTER QUESTIONS, MANY OF RON'S CLIENTS MIGHT NOT HAVE EVEN SEEN THE BACK OF A COURTROOM, LET ALONE A CELL.

SO I AM OPTIMISTIC, JIM, THAT WITH THE GLOBE CONTINUING, AND ALSO WITH OPAT, AND MAYOR JANEY, AND VERY HONESTLY WITH A BOSTON CITY COUNCIL THAT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT, AND WITH ME AS THE D.A., WE ARE COMING DOWN HARD TO MAKE SURE THERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY.

>> Braude: RON, IF I MAY, I DON'T SHARE THE OPTIMISM THAT RACHAEL ROLLINS DOES.

ROSA BROOKS, WHOM I'M GUESSING YOU KNOW, A GEORGETOWN LAW PROFESSOR, TALKED ABOUT WHEN SHE BECAME A COP, SHE WENT THROUGH THE FULL-FLEDGE TRAINING.

SHE SAID RECENTLY EVERY SINGLE DAY IN THE TRAINING, THEY MADE WOULD-BE COPS AWARE THEY COULD BE SHOT AT ANY MINUTE, MAKING THEM POTENTIALLY TRIGGER HAPPY.

NEVER ONCE IN THE TRAINING WAS RACISM MENTIONED.

SO IT IS NOT JUST HERE.

IT IS EVERYWHERE, ISN'T IT?

OR AM I OVERREACTING, RON?

>> YOU ARE NOT.

I KNOW PROFESSOR BROOKS' WORK WELL.

I WROTE A REVIEW OF THAT BOOK IN THE "WASHINGTON OUT, SO I READ IT CLOSELY.

THAT PROBLEM EXISTS EVERYWHERE, AND IT IS DEEP WITHHL POLICE DEPARTMENTS, AND THERE HASçó TO BE SERIOUS STRUCTURAL CHANGE, EITHER ON THEIR OWN ACCORD OR MANDATED BY AN OUTSIDE AUTHORITY, IN ORDER TO CHANGE SOME OF THE NORMS THAT ARE USED TO OPERATE IN THESE POLICE FORCES.Ñi AND IT STARTS RIGHT IN THE ACADEMY.

THE OTHER POINT THAT PROFESSOR BROOKS MADE WAS THAT FROM THEÑiÑi VERY BEGINNING THAT OFFICERS AND POLICE ARE TRAINEDx-THAT EACH AN EVERY ENCOUNTERS POTENTIALLY DEADLY.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY REACT IN A CERTAIN SORT OF WAY.

COUPLE THATñr WITH AÑi BELIEF IN SOCIETY AT LARGE, THAT POLICE ARE NOT IMMUNE, THAT COLOR IS SOMEHOW A PROXY FOR CRIMINALITY.

AND THAT'S A DANGEROUS, DANGEROUS MIX, AND BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE ARE WINDING UP DEAD ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF IT.

>> Braude: I ASKED THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF BOSTON GETS IT.

DO THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA GET IT?

MY APPROACH TO THIS TRIAL, IT SEEMED TO ME THAT WHITE AMERICA WAS ON TRIAL FOR HOW WE TREAT BLACK PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY FOR DECADES, IF NOT CENTURIES.

AND THEN I LOOK AT THIS POLL, U.S.A. IPSOS, IMMEDIATELY AFTER GEORGE FLOYD WAS MURDER, 60% THOUGHT IT WAS MURDER.

RIGHT BEFORE THE TRIAL, ONLY 36%.

AND YESTERDAY, RIGHT AFTER THE VERDICT, ONLY 40% THOUGHT IT WAS MURDER.

>>> AND THAT'S IN GREATçó PART BECAUSE HALF OF THE WHITES WHO THOUGHT IT WAS MURDER LASTB5EAR DON'T THINK IT WAS MURDER ANYMORE.

IN 30Ñi SECONDS, RON,çóñr IF YOU CAN, AND THEN DISTRICT ATTORNEY, IF THE PUBLIC DOESN'T GET IT, THERE IS NOT THE PRESSURE TO ACT, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND SO THE PUBLIC DOES HAVE TO GET IT.

AND THAT'S WHY I AGREE WITH D.A.

ROLLINS, THAT WHILE THIS CASE IS IMPORTANT, AND WHILE THIS CASE HAD SYMBOLIC SIGNIFICANCE, AND WHILE THIS CASE HAD GENERAL DETERRENT IMPACT, IT HAS NOT SOLVED A MAJOR PROBLEM THAT HAS EXISTED.

THIS IS THE FIRST STEP, AND WE HAVE TO KEEP WORKING.

JUSTICE IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T JUST FALL OUT OF THE SKY.

WE HAVE TO ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND WORK EACH AND EVERY DAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

HARD OF THAT IS HAVING HARD CONVERSATIONS.

THAT IS 25 SECONDS, SO THE D.A.

GETS AN EXTRA FIVE.

>> Braude: YOU GET 35, AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I'VE GOT, DISTRICT ATTORNEY.

>> YEAH.

I THINK WE HAVE TO COME TO THE VERY REAL REALIZATION THAT TO WHITE AMERICA, THEY DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE THINGS WE'RE SAYING.

THE THOUGHT THAT YOU COULD BE PULLED OVER BECAUSE THERE IS AN AIR FRESHENER BLOCKING YOUR MIRROR OR THAT YOU'RE -- (A) THAT YOU WOULD BE PULLED OVER AT ALL, BUT (B) THAT YOU WOULD DIE BY THE VERY POLICE THAT ARE THERE TO PROTECT YOU.

I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THE DIRECTION, JIM, BUT THERE IS STILL SO MUCH SPACE BETWEEN THE EXPERIENCES PEOPLE HAVE IN OUR CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEM.

BUT I DO THINK THIS PROVES THERE ARE TWO CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEMS.

AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO IS CONTINUE THE HARD FIGHT OF OPENING PEOPLE'S EYES AND THEN MAKING THE PROFOUND CHANGE THAT WE NEED.

>> Braude: RACHAEL ROLLINS AND RON SULLIVAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> TAKE CARE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: IT'S APRIL VACATION WEEK IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS, BUT IN THE CITY OF EVERETT, HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS ARE HITTING THE BOOKS.

EVERETT HIGH IS OFFERING STUDENTS A CHANCE TO TURN FAILING GRADES INTO PASSING ONES, AS PART OF GBH NEWS' "COVID AND THE CLASSROOM" SERIES.

CRISTINA QUINN REPORTS THIS WEEK'S "ACADEMIC RECOVERY ACADEMY" IS JUST ONE WAY THE SCHOOL IS WORKING TO HELP STUDENTS CATCH UP IN A CITY HARD HIT BY COVID.

>> I HOPE YOU KNOW THIS IS GOING ON.

>> Reporter: BEFORE CORY McCARTHY BECAME A SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR, HE SPENT YEARS COACHING HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL.

>> YOU HAVE TO STRAIGHTEN OUT YOUR FEET.

YOUR WHOLE BODY'S GOT TO GO TOWARDS THE BASKET.

>> Reporter: AS EVERETT HIGH'S VICE PRINCIPAL, HE HAS APPROACHED THIS SCHOOL YEAR LIKE A HIGH-STAKES GAME.

>> SEND ME HIS CELL PHONE.

RIGHT NOW, PLEASE, IF YOU CAN.

ALL RIGHT.

S)káVy BYE.

[SIGHS] >> THIS KID DOESN'T WANT DO WAKE UP.

>> Reporter: THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN DANGER OF FAILING IS SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN USUAL.

IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR STUDENTS TO JUGGLE REMOTE CLASSES WITH JOBS OR TAKING CARE OF YOUNGER SIBLINGS, WHILE THEIR PARENTS WORK.ñrÑi MOST KIDS SPEAK A LANGUAGEçó4/OTHER THAN ENGLISH ATÑi HOME, AND MORE THAN HALFñr LIVE IN POVERTY.

AND AFTER MORE THAN A YEAR AWAY FROM SCHOOL, MANY STRUGGLE TO STAY CONNECTED.4/>> LOOK AT THE KIDS WHO DID WELL BEFORE THE PANDEMIC AND WHO ARE STRUGGLING NOW, RIGHT?

THOSE ARE THE ONES WE NEED TO FIND.

>> IT'S NOT LIKE I HAVE THEM IN MY SCHEDULE, JUST, LIKE, MY CLOCK GOES OFF.

LIKE, LET ME CHECK IN ON THIS KID, WHO HAD COVID TWO MONTHS AGO, OR WHO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, MISSED THE TIME, MISSED AN EXAM OR SOMETHING.

>> SO WE'RE HEADING OVER TO SEE KNEICO, PART OF THIS VISIT RIGHT NOW IS I OFTEN JUST WANT HIM TO KNOW THAT I'M HERE ALL THE TIME.

SO TELL ME ABOUT QUARTER THREE SO FAR.

>> IT'S KIND OF HARD.

>> Reporter: THIS IS McCARTHY'S FIRST YEAR ON THE JOB IN EVERETT.

>> I OFTEN SAY, HEY, LISTEN, THIS SUCKS FOR ME, TOO.

I THINK, YOU KNOW -- AND THEY'RE, LIKE, HOW YOU'RE THE -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THE VICE PRINCIPAL.

>> Reporter: HE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO STUDENTS FINALLY RETURNING TO SCHOOL SOME TIME THIS SPRING.

BUT HE SAYS IT WILL TAKE MORE THAN OPENING SCHOOL DOORS TO REENGAGE STUDENTS.

WE WANT KIDS TO TRY TO MAKE A COMEBACK AND BE REALLY READY TO BE THERE.

WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

>> I DON'T REALLY KNOW.

MAYBE, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW.

BECAUSE A LOT OF KIDS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT GOING BACK.

BECAUSE A LOT OF KIDS DON'T WANT TO GO BACK.

BECAUSE A LOT OF KIDS DON'T WANT TO GO BACK EVERY DAY.

>> Reporter: IN A YEAR WHEN EDUCATION HAS BEEN DISRUPTED SO DRAMATICALLY, McCARTHY ARGUES THIS MOMENT OF TRANSITION SHOULD ALSO BE ABOUT CHANGING THE POWER DYNAMICS AROUND EDUCATION.

>> I'M SUCH A BAD PARKER.

>> Reporter: TO FOCUS LESS ON RULES, LIKE ATTENDANCE REQUIREMENTS, AND MORE ON WHAT STUDENTS HAVE TO SAY.

>> I WORRY THAT KIDS ARE GOING TO ACTUALLY GET ISOLATED EVEN MORE BECAUSE NO ONE IS LISTENING.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A LOT OF BIG EARS, HAVE A LOT OF BIG EARS, HAVE SOME REALLY THICK SKIN WHEN THEY COME BACK.

>> Reporter: PLAY IT SMART, HE SAYS, AND KIDS WILL NOT ONLY FIND A WAY TO GET BACK ON TRACK, BUT POTENTIALLY TURN AROUND WHAT HAS BEEN A LOSING GAME INTO A WIN.

CRISTINA QUINN, GBH NEWS.

>> Braude: 300 STUDENTS HAVE SIGNED UP FOR EVERETT HIGH'S "ACADEMIC RECOVERY ACADEMY."

THE VICE PRINCIPAL TELLS US BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, MOST OF THOSE KIDS WERE DOING OKAY IN SCHOOL.

>>> NEXT UP, A FEW YEARS AGO, THE U.N.

ISSUED A DIRE REPORT: ONE MILLION SPECIES OF PLANTS AND ANIMALS ARE ON THE VERGE OF EXTINCTION.

AND RIGHT NOW, ONE OF THE SPECIES MOST AT RISK, THE NORTH ATLANTIC RIGHT WHALE, FACES SOME OF ITS GREATEST THREATS IN THE WATERS OFF THE COAST OF NEW ENGLAND.

>> HUMAN ACTION IS KILLING THESE WHALES, AND HUMAN ACTION HAS THE ABILITY TO SAVE THEM.

>> IF NOTHING HAPPENS, IN 20 YEARS THERE WILL BE NO MORE REPRODUCING FEMALES.

THAT'S THE PROJECTION.

IT'S PRETTY GRUESOME.

>> IF WE LET THIS SPECIES GO EXTINCT ON OUR WATCH, WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT.

>> Braude: OVER THE PAST DECADE, CLIMATE CHANGE AND WARMING WATERS HAVE PUSHED NORTH ATLANTIC RIGHT WHALE WHALES OUT OF THEIR USUAL MIGRATION PATHS.

AND MORE AND MORE OFTEN RIGHT INTO THE PATHS OF FISHING BOATS AND FISHING LINES.

TODAY THERE ARE FEWER THAN 400 LEFT.

AN AWARD-WINNING DOCUMENTARY DIVES INTO EFFORTS TO SAVE THE SPECIES WHICH HAVE PUT CONSERVATIONISTS UP AGAINST THE LOBSTER INDUSTRY, WITH FEDERAL REGULATORS CHARGED WITH PROTECTING THEM BOTH, STUCK IN THE MIDDLE.

IT'S CALLED "ENTANGLED," AND IT'S AIRING TOMORROW NIGHT ON GBH'S "THE WORLD CHANNEL" IN HONOR OF EARTH DAY.

I WAS JOINED YESTERDAY BY ONE OF THE FILMMAKERS, DAVID ABEL, WHO WON A PULITZER IN 2014 FOR BREAKING NEWS COVERAGE OF THE BOSTON MARATHON BOMBING, ALONG WITH HIS COLLEAGUES FROM THE "BOSTON GLOBE," WHERE HE'S NOW AN ENVIRONMENTAL REPORTER.

>> Braude: DAVID, CONGRATULATIONS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: DAVID, WHAT IS THE BEST GUESS AS TO HOW MANY RIGHT WHALES ARE ALIVE TODAY?

>> WHEN I STARTED MAKING THIS FILM, THE ESTIMATE WAS THERE WERE ROUGHLY 411 RIGHT WHALES REMAINING.

LAST FALL, THAT ESTIMATE, BY THE SAME SCIENTISTS, PLUMMETTED TO 356, SO WE'VE SEEN A 25% DECLINE IN THE POPULATION OVER JUST THE PAST DECADE.

>> Braude: ONE OF THE MOST FRIGHTENING PARTS OF THIS IS THAT YOU CAN NAME WHAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE EXACT NUMBER OF MEMBERS OF THE SPECIES THAT STILL EXISTS.

WHAT I LEANED FROM YOUR FILM IS THAT THE CAUSE OF DEATH IN ALMOST ALL OF THESE CASES IS HUMANS: SHIP STRIKES, ENTANGLEMENTS, MEANING THE LINE THAT GOES FROM THE BUOY TO THE LOBLAW POT AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

CLIMATELOB -- THELOBSTER POT AND CLIMATE CHANGE.

EVEN THOUGH SHIPS DON'T SEE A WHALE ON THEIR RADAR, SHIP STRIKES HAVE DECLINED DRAMATICALLY.

WHY IS THAT?

>> IN THE 1990s, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PASSED SERIOUS REGULATIONS THAT ACTUALLY CONTROLLED SPEEDS, SET UP SHIPPING LANES, AND ALERTED MARINERS -- AND THERE IS A WHOLE CITY AT WORK TO ALERT MARINERS WHEN WRITE RIGHT WHALES ARE IN WATERS THEY MIGHT BE TRANSITING, THAT THEY HAVE TO REDUCE THEIR SPEEDS AND STAY IN CERTAIN AREAS, AND THAT PLAYED A ROLE IN REDUCING THE DEATHS FROM SHIP STRIKES.

>> Braude: ENTANGLEMENTS, I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE IMAGES WERE SO PAINFUL, NOT ONLY SEEING ENTANGLED WHALES OR FORMERLY ENTANGLED WHALES THAT DIED -- HERE IS A LITTLE MODEL YOU USE DESCRIBING WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN A WHALE BECOMES ENTANGLED.

THE AND THE PROBLEM WHEN THEY BECOME ENTANGLED, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IS THEIR INABILITY TO GO TO THE SURFACE TO TAKE IN AIR, IS THAT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS?

>> WELL, THERE ARE MULTIPLE PROBLEMS.

AS YOU CAN SEE IN THAT DEMONSTRATION, AFFECTIVELY WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN THEY HIT THESE LINES, THEY EITHER GET STUCK IN THEIR FLIPPERS, SOMETIMES THEY GET STUCK IN THEIR BALEEN.

AND THEY'RE OFTEN FEEDING WITH THEIR MOUTHS WIDE OPEN AND THEY CAN'T REALLY SEE THE LINES.

WHEN THEY OFTEN HIT THEM, THEY ROLL.

AND IT CAN WRAP AROUND THEIR MOUTHS.

IT CAN HARM THEM IN MANY WAYS.

SO OFTEN THEY'RE DRAGGING HEAVY GEAR WITH THESE TROLL LINES THAT INCLUDE A BUNCH OF LOBSTER POTS, AND THEY CAN SWIM WITH THEM FOR HUNDREDS OF MILES SOMETIMES, WHICH WEAKENS THEM.

IT GOUGES INTO THEIR SKIN.

IT CAN CARVE INTO THEIR BONES AND SLOWLY AFFECTIVELY KILL THEM.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, I AM THE LEAST TECHNOLOGICAL TECHNOLOGICALLY COMPETENT PERSON YOU'VE EVER MET, BUT EVEN I, AS I'M WATCHING THIS FILM, SAY TO MYSELF THE THERE HAS GOT TO BE SOME SORT OF THING WITHOUT THE ROPE LINE THAT THESE LOBSTER MEN AND WOMEN COULD USE, AND LO AND BEHOLD, YOU START TALKING ABOUT ROPELESS TECHNOLOGY WHICH EXISTS.

WHICH MEANS THEY WOULDN'T BECOME ENTANGLED IN ANYTHING.

THERE WOULD BE A SIGNAL, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE LOBSTER POT WOULD FLOAT UP FROM THE BECOME.

IS WHAT STANDS BETWEEN THE TECHNOLOGY AND ITS USE, IS IT PURELY ABOUT MONEY, OR DOES THE TECHNOLOGY STILL NEED SOME ADVANCEMENT?

>> WELL, IT IS A COMBINATION OF BOTH.

FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD SAY THAT, NUMBER ONE, THE TECHNOLOGY REMAINS IN SOMEWHAT OF A FORMATIVE STATE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE HICCUPS.

IT IS -- YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF REALLY COMPLICATED CHALLENGING PROBLEMS IN THIS WORLD.

THE ISSUES OF THE PLUMMETTING POPULATION OF THE NORTH ATLANTIC RIGHT WHALE IS NOT REALLY ONE OF THEM.

WE KNOW HOW TO SAVE THEM.

AND THAT WOULD EITHER INVOLVE REMOVING AS MUCH OF THE ROPE FROM THE WATER COLUMN AS POSSIBLE, AND THOSE ARE, AS YOU MENTIONED, THE VERTICAL BUOY LINES THAT EXTEND FROM THE SURFACE TO THE SEA FLOOR.

AND, ALSO, TRYING TO FIND NEW TECHNOLOGY.

THE BASIC PROBLEM, AS YOU HINTED AT, IS RIGHT NOW THE COST IS JUST NOT REASONABLE FOR THE AVERAGE LOBSTERMAN TO BEAR.

BUT WE SUBSIDIZE LOTS OF DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE PROVIDE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO AGRICULTURE INDUSTRIES.

SO IF WE MADE A DECISION, ESPECIALLY IN THIS WORLD OF TRILLION-DOLLAR RESCUE PACKAGES AND INFRASTRUCTURE PLANS, WE COULD AFFECTIVELY SUBSIDIZE WHAT IS THE TRANSITION TO WHAT IS THE NATION'S MOST VALUABLE FISHERY, THE LOBSTER INDUSTRY.

>> Braude: TO LISTEN TO THE LOBSTER MEN AND WOMEN IN YOUR FILM, THEIR CONTENTION IS IT IS EXTINCTION VERSUS EXTINCTION.

POTENTIAL EXTINCTION, LIKELY EXTINCTION IN DUE DECADES, OF THE RIGHT WHALE, VERSUS LIKELY EXTINCTION OF THEIR LIVELIHOODS.

HERE IS TWO OF THE FISHERMEN WHO WERE FEATURED OR COVERED IN YOUR FILM.

>> I TELL YOU, LISTEN TO ENVIRONMENTALISTS AFTER ENVIRONMENTALIST TELL ME WHAT A MURDEROUS INDIVIDUAL I AM.

>> MY PIN ABOUT THE WHALES IS WHAT MORE CAN WE DO.

EVENTUALLY THEY'RE GOING TO DIE OFF.

>> Braude: IS THERE A MIDDLE GROUND?

THERE IS NOAH.

THERE IS CONGRESS.

IS THERE A FIX THAT COULD IS SAVE BOTH SPECIES, THE LOBSTERMEN AND THE WHALE?

>> SO I THINK THAT REALLY IS WHAT THIS FILM IS ABOUT.

THIS FILM LOOKS AT THE VERY DIFFICULT CHALLENGE THAT THIS CONFLICTED FEDERAL AGENCY, THE NATIONAL MARINE FISHERY SERVICE, HAS.

AND THEY BRING TOGETHER FISHERMEN, SCIENTISTS, FEDERAL AND STATE REGULATORS TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO REDUCE SERIOUS INJURIES AND MORTALITIES BY 60% TO 80%.

THAT WAS THE GOAL SET OUT.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE ACTUALLY THOUGHT WE SORT OF HAD THE END OF THE FILM, WHICH NOW IS SORT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE FILM, WHERE IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS THIS HISTORIC AGREEMENT, AFTER YEARS OF EFFORTS TO TRY TO BRING THESE STAKEHOLDERS TOGETHER.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, WHAT WE LEARN AND SEE HAPPEN IN THE FILM IS THAT ONE OF THE MAJOR GROUPS, THE FISHERMEN IN MAINE AND THE CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION IN MAINE DECIDED THAT THEY WERE NO LONGER GOING TO ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT.

AND THEY LOBBIED THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO TRY TO STOP EFFORTS TO IMPOSE REGULATIONS ON THE LOBSTER INDUSTRY, AND THEY SUCCEED FOR MUCHSUCCEEDED FOR MUCH OF THE LAST YEAR.

AND THE RULES, OR THE PROPOSED REGULATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THIS MEETING, WERE PUT IN A KIND OF REGULATORY BLACK HOLE.

AND BY COURT ORDER THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETED RULES BY THE END OF NEXT MONTH.

>> Braude: WELL, I'LL TELL YOU, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH OFF CAPE COD TO SEE A COUPLE OF THESE BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS UP CLOSE, I HOPE THE CONSERVATION EFFORTS SUCCEED, AND I THINK YOUR FILM IS A HUGE PART OF THAT SUCCESS SHOULD IT HAPPEN.

DAVID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOF YOURFOR YOUR WORK AND YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

AND, OF COURSE, PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org