>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," A JUDGE SAID THE C.D.C.s MASK MANDATES ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT WERE AN OVERREACH, BUT THE WHITE HOUSE BELIEVES OTHERWISE, I THINK.

AND FEDERAL HEALTH EXPERTS STILL SAY MASKS ON PUBLIC TRANSIT ARE THE WAY TO GO.

SO, WHO'S REALLY IN CHARGE HERE, AND WHO'S RIGHT?

A PAIR OF HEALTH LAW AND PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS WILL JOIN ME.

PLUS, "BOSTON GLOBE" TRAVEL WRITER CHRIS MUTHER, ON HIS DECISION ON IN-AIR MASKING.

AND LATER, PRESIDENT OF THE BENJAMIN FRANKLIN CUMMINGS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY, AISHA FRANCIS, ON HOW THEY'RE CHANGING THINGS UP, IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE, INCLUDING GIVING A HUGE NUMBER OF ROXBURY SENIORS WHO STUDIED STEM, AUTOMATIC ADMISSION TO THE SCHOOL.

>> Braude: AFTER A FEDERAL JUDGE IN FLORIDA RULED MONDAY THAT THE C.D.C.

DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MANDATE MASKS ON PLANES AND OTHER PUBLIC TRANSIT, SOME CELEBRATED.

>> IT'S OVER, IMMEDIATELY.

CONGRATULATIONS.

>> Braude: MULTIPLE AIRLINES, INCLUDING DELTA, UNITED, SOUTHWEST, AND JETBLUE, HAVE SINCE MADE MASKS OPTIONAL.

ON THE GROUND, AMTRAK, UBER, LYFT, AND THE M.B.T.A.

ARE AMONG THOSE THAT HAVE LIFTED THEIR MANDATES, TOO-- AND WHEN ASKED TUESDAY ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE DOING-- THE PRESIDENT SEEMED TO BE FOLLOWING THE JUDGE'S RULING.

>> SHOULD PEOPLE CONTINUE TO WEAR MASKS ON PLANES?

>> THAT'S UP TO THEM.

>> Braude: OF COURSE, THE WHITE HOUSE HAS SINCE ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WANT THE D.O.J.

TO APPEAL THE RULING, SO I GUESS IT'S NOT UP TO THEM!

DON'T ASK ME, ASK THE EXPERTS.

I'M JOINED BY CARMEL SHACHAR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR HEALTH LAW POLICY, BIOTECHNOLOGY, AND BIOETHICS AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL; AND DR. LOUISE IVERS, DIRECTOR OF THE HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE AND M.G.H.s CENTER FOR GLOBAL HEALTH.

IT'S A GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH, THANKS FOR BEINGS HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> DISOK TOR DID THE JUDGE MAKE THE RIGHT RIGHT DECISION AS A MATTER-OF-PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> I THINK IT IS DISAPPOINTING THAT A JUDGE WAS ACTUALLY THE DECISION MAKER.

I THINK EVEN IF THE MANDATE IS COMING TO AN IND, IT SEEMS LIKE A SORRY END TO KIND OF THE AUTHORITY OF THE CDC IN OUR PUBLIC HEALTH ARENA.

YOU KNOW, THEY HAD-- I HAD BEEN HAPPY THAT THE CDC HAD DECIDED TO EXTEND FOR A FEW MORE WEEKS THE MASK MANDATE.

SO I THINK FOR ME IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF SHOULD THE JUDGES REALLY BE DECIDING OR COULD OUR PUBLIC HEALTH AUTHORITIES REALLY HELP TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS MORE CEDABLE.

>> Braude: THE WHITE HOUSE THROUGH JEN PSAKI, KARMEL MADE A SIMILAR POINT, IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT WHETHER THIS MANDATE ON MASK GOES THROUGH MAY-- MAY 3rd BUT BTD PUBLIC HEALTH AUTHORITY TO BEGIN WITH, I GUESS FOR A FUTURE PANDEMIC.

HERE IS WHAT PSAKI HAD TO SAY TO CHRIS WALLACE THE OTHER DAY ON CNN PLUS.

>> ONE, BECAUSE WE THINK IT IS ENTIRELY REASONABLE.

BUT ALSO BECAUSE THEY WANT TO FIGHT TO ENSURE THE CDC'S AUTHORITY AND ABILITY TO PUT IN MANDATES IN THE FUTURE REMAINS IN TACT.

WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT OUR PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS ARE ABLE TO TAKE STEPS IF NEEDED IN THE FUTURE.

>> SO THE STAKES ARE PRETTY HIGH HERE FOR THE FUTURE.

ARE THEY NOT, CARMEL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THIS IS A CASE MOST IMMEDIATELY ABOUT DO YOU NEED TO WEAR A MASK ON AN AIRPLANE, BUT WHAT IT IS REALLY ABOUT IS WHAT CAN THE CDC ASK THE PUBLIC TO DO, ESPECIALLY WHENNER IN'S TRAVELING BETWEEN STATES TO KEEP EVERYBODY HEALTHY AND TO CONTROL INFECTIOUS DISEASES MOVING FORWARD.

>> YOU KNOW, BY THE WAY, THIS IS COMING AT THE SAME TIME THE SUPREME COURT HAS A CASE BEFORE IT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, THE EPA HAS THE REGULATORY AUTHORITY TO DECIDE AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUES.

SO WE ARE IN AN ERA WHERE A LOT OF PUBLIC ENTITIES MAY BE CUT BACK IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC.

DR. IVES, IT SEEMS THE PROBLEM IN THIS CASE IS NOT JUST THE JUDGE WHO MOST LEGAL EXPERTS WHO I CONSULTED THINK MISUNDERSTOOD THE LAW BUT AN ADMINISTRATION THAT SENT A TOTALLY CONFUSING MESS ANGST.

AS YOU SAW A MINUTE AGO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAYING DO WHATEVER YOU WANT, IT'S UP TO YOU AND THE NEXT DAY HIS OWN ADMINISTRATION, HIS OWN DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE SAYING DON'T DO WHAT YOU WANT.

BECAUSE WE THINK THERE SHOULD BE A MANDATE IN PLACE.

THAT IS EXACTLY THE WRONG KIND OF MESSAGING ON PUBLIC HEALTH, IS IT NOT?

>> WE HAVE JUST BEEN I THINK FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS, MIXED UP IN A NOT ALL-- TOTAL MESS AROUND PUBLIC HEALTH MESSAGING.

WE HAVE HAD EXPERTS AND SO CALLED EXPERTS AND POLITICS AND PUBLIC HEALTH AND SCIENCE AND IT'S BECOME VERY CONFUSING FOR THE PUBLIC.

IF YOU HAVE BEEN ON THE T WHICH I NORMALLY TAKE TO WORK OR IN AN AIRPLANE RECENTLY, YOU CAN SEE THAT YES, MASK WHEN THEY ARE PROPERLY USE READY EFFECTIVE.

BUT MANY PEOPLE HAVE REALLY TAKEN THIS MANDATE TO NOT BE VERY SERIOUS IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND THEY HAVE NOTE BEEN USING THEM CORRECTLY.

SO I THINK THE MESSAGING WOULD BE, THE MANDATES MIGHT EVEN BE LESS NECESSARY IF ACTUALLY PEOPLE COULD TRULY UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE OF MASKS AND HOW USEFUL MASKS ACTUALLY ARE.

AND IF WE WERE REALLY JUST TO DO SOMETHING TO HELP OUR NEIGHBORS, NOT NECESSARILY JUST OURSELVES.

>> Braude: WHILE YOU MENTION THAT THE OFTEN ACROSS-THE-BOARD DISOBEDIENCE OF SOME OF THESE MANDATES, DOUBLE PLEE UNFORTUNATE THING FOR ME IS THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW AREAS WHERE THE PUBLIC SEEM TO BE UNIFIED.

I CAN SHARE WITH YOU THIS POLL FROM A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO FROM APNORC CENTER, 56 TO 24, THAT SAY LANDSLIDE IN AMERICA TODAY.

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT REQUIRING PEOPLE ON PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TO WEAR MASKS.

AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE WERE AGAIN THAT COMMENT BY THE PRESIDENT WAS ILLADVISED.

SO CARMEL, ASSUMING FOR THE TIME BEING THIS STANDS, SHOULD PEOPLE MASK, IS ONE WAY, MASKING, I GUESS IS THE TERM, IS THAT USEFUL IN A PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION SETTING WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE IS MASKFREE?

>> I WILL SEPARATE THAT INTO TWO PERSPECTIVES.

FROM AN INDIVIDUAL PERSPECTIVE YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE USING HIGH QUALITY MASKS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE LIVING WITH SOMEBODY WHO IS IMMUNOCOMPROMISED OR HAS OTHER HEALTH CONDITIONS.

I THINK FROM A SOCIAL POINT OF VIEW IT'S A REALLY UNSATISFYING ANSWER TO SAY OKAY, WELL PEOPLE SHOULD JUST DECIDE.

SO FOR EXAMPLE I HAVE A TODDLER AND A BABY AT HOME.

THE BABY IS TOO YOUNG TO MASK.

I CAN BARELY KEEP SOCKS ON HER.

AND THE TODDLER IS TRYING TO MASK BUT MASKS ARE HARD TO FIT AND IT'S NOT A GREAT FIT.

AND I THINK THAT IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE UNDER FIVE POPULATION WHICH HASN'T GOTTEN A CHANCE TO BE VACCINATED OR PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING WITH HEALTH CONDITIONS, YOUR AGING PARENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE PUBLIC MASK UP AS A GROWN AS OPPOSED TO JUST USING IT FOR INDIVIDUALS.

>> BUT IF IT TURNS OUT, LET ME STAY WITH YOU AS A MOTHER OF A TODDLER AND AN EVEN YOUNGER, IF THE PUBLIC SAYS WELL, A JUDGE TOLD ME I DON'T HAVE TO, I'M NOT GOING TO, AND YOU ARE RIDING THE T TO WORK OR ON A BUS TO HARVARD SQUARE, ARE YOU HELPING TO PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR KIDS BY YOU INDIVIDUALLY MASKING?

IF YOU ARE THE OUTLIAR ON THAT, WHATEVER THAT VEHICLE IS?

>> I AM.

I DON'T MIND LOOKING A LITTLE BIT CAUTIOUS.

I WOULD RATHER BE CAUTIOUS THAN HAVE TO DEAL WITH A TODDLER WITH COVID.

>> YOU KNOW, DR. IVERS, I KNOW YOU KNOW I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN THIS AREA BUT I DO CONSUME A LOT OF THIS.

I DON'T GET THE INDECISION, THE DELAY ON THIS THING AT ALL.

I'M LISTENING TO A REPORT ON NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO THIS MORNING.

AND HERE'S WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT AIRLINES.

YEAH, THERE'S GREAT VENTILATION AND CIRCULATION WHEN THE AIRPLANE IS IN THE AIR, AND THE WHEELS ARE UP.

WHEN IT IS ON THE RUNWAY OR TAXIING, THERE IS NONE OF THAT CIRCULATION.

THEN THEY MOVE TO BUSES.

AND THEY SAY IF YOUR MASKS ARE NOT ON EVERY PERSON ON THE BUS WOULD BREATHE THE AIR OF AN INFECTED PERSON WERE HE OR SHE WERE ON THERE IN 45 SECONDS.

AND THEN YOU GO TO SUBWAYS WHERE PEOPLE ARE SARDINE LIKE PACK AND THE NOTION THAT A MASKFREE ENVIRONMENT IS EVEN BORDERLINE SAFE IS PREPOS TRUS TO ME.

AM I OVERREACTING TO ANY OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK ARE YOU OVERREACTING.

I ALSO THINK YOU KNOW WE SHOULDN'T STIGMATIZE THE IDEA THAT IT'S OKAY NOT TO WANT TO GET COVID.

YOU KNOW, IT'S OKAY STILL TWO YEARS LATER TO TRY TO WANT TO AVOID YOURSELF OR YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS EVEN IF THEY ARE RELATIVELY HEALTHY FROM GETTING COVID.

I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE TRANSPORTATION.

OF COURSE THIS IS IF IS TRADGES MITTED BY DROP LETS ANDARY SOLE SO IN AN AIRPLANE THEY HAVE HIGH AIR EXCHANGE AND THAT IS GREAT, IF THARY SOLE GETS THRUP TO THE EXCHANGE BUT IF ARE YOU SITTING BESIDE A STRANGE WE ARE A COUGH OR FLU OR, THAT DOESN'T REALLY HELP YOU.

AND IT DOES HELP IF YOU YOURSELF WEAR A MASK.

BUT IT IS JUST YOU KNOW EXPONENTIALLY MORE EFFECTIVE THE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY MASKED INSIDE THE SPACE.

>> CAN WE STEP BACK FOR THE REMAINING MINUTE OR TWO, BOTH OF YOU, AND TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS JUST PUTTING ME OVER THE ERJ.

AND I HOPE IT IS PUTTING MOST AMERICANS OVER THE EDGE.

AT THE SAME TIME THAT WE ARE NOT OUT OF THIS, AND I LOOKED IT UP RIGHT BEFORE THIS SHOW, -9D 87,000 OF OUR FELLOWS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE DEAD AS A RESULT OF THIS.

THIS PATHETIC CONGRESS IS ON A TWO WEEK RECESS.

HAVING NOT APPROPRIATED ONE ADDITIONAL DOLLAR FOR FUTURE COVID NECESSITIES.

THE ADMINISTRATION REQUESTED I THINK IT WAS 22.5 BILLION T WAS SHAVED DOWN FOR A WHOLE VARIETY OF REASONS.

STARTING WITH YOU, CARMEL, IT SEEMS THAT OUR LEADERS, AT LEAST THE MAJORITY OF OUR LEADERS IN CONGRESS, ENOUGH TO BLOCK ACTION, HAVE LEARNED NOTHING IN TERMS OF PREVENTION AND PRESENTATION ON THE PUBLIC HEALTH FRONT AFTER THE WORST PUBLIC HEALTH CATASTROPHE OF OUR LIFETIME.

>> I ABSOLUTELY AGREE THERE.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE SYSTEMICALLY UNDERINVESTED IN PUBLIC HEALTH FOR DECADES AND DECADES.

AND WHAT I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE IS COVID EMPATHIZE THAN JUST HAVING A STRONG PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEM.

I MEAN IT IS AMAZING THAT WE COULD ALL GO TO A CVS ORVAX EVEN CLINIC AND GET OUR COVID VACCINES WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT WILL MY INSURANCE COVER IT, WILL I BE ABLE TO A VORD-- AFFORD THIS FOR MY KIDS.

TO MOVE AWAY FROM THAT, TO SEE OUR LEADERS GET COVID FATIGUE AND NOT THINK THAT IT IS WORTH SPENDING MONEY TO PROTECT THE LIVES OF AMERICANS IS FRANKLY DISAPPOINTING.

>> Braude: LOUISE IVERS, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE NONACTION BY CONGRESS?

>> I MEAN YOU KNOW, ALL OF OUR, AS AN INFECTIOUS DISEASES DOCTOR I'M USED TO THE FACT THAT OUTBREAKS ARE MASSED BY A CYCLE OF PANIC AND NEGLECT.

AND THIS HAPPENS OVER AND OVER WHETHER IT IS EBOLA, WHETHER ST THE FIRST SAR, AND NOW IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT IT IS HAPPENING WITH THIS, WITH COVID AS WELL.

YOU KNOW PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT HOW OH, THIS DISEASE IS JUST LIKE THE FLU.

WHICH IT IS NOT, LET ME SAY FOR THE, YOU KNOW, TO STATE FOR THE RECORD.

ALMOST 30 MILLION AMERICANS GET SICK WITH INFLUENZA EVERY YEAR, USUALLY.

THAT WAS THE DATA FROM 2018.

AND SO THE IMRD THAT EVEN IF THIS WAS LIKE THE FLU THAT WE'RE WILLING TO FIGHT ALL THAT WE HAVE LEARNED ABOUT TESTING AND TEST AND TREAT, GET TREATMENTS IT PHARMACIES, THAT CONTACT TRACING, THAT WE ARE NOT ACTUALLY INVESTING NOW TO ENSURE THAT OUR PUBLIC HEALTH WORKERS HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED.

IS REALLY A VERY DISAPPOINTING.

>> CARMEL SHACHAR AND LOUISE IVERS THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: UP NEXT IS ONE MAN WHO IS REFUSING TO WAIVER IN THE WAR ON MAXES.

UP NEXT IS ONE MAN WHO'S REFUSING TO WAVER IN THE WAR ON MASKS, WRITING IN HIS LATEST "BOSTON GLOBE" PIECE THAT HE'LL BE "TAKING HIS ADVICE FROM THE PROS," AND THAT HIS MASK ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE WHILE HE'S TRAVELING.

A FEARLESS MAN, A LEADER OF MEN, AND A FEW WOMEN, "GLOBE" TRAVEL WRITER, CHRISTOPHER MUTHER JOINS ME NOW.

GOOD TOO SEE YOU AS WELL.

>> YOU AS WELL.

>> Braude: IT IS CLER IN YOUR COLUME YOU ARE AWARE THE JUDGE FROM THAT CASE, KATHARINE KIMABLE WAS NOT QUALL BY-- QUALIFIED BY THE ABA WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP NOMINATED HER.

DID THAT FACTOR INTO YOUR DECISION TO REJECT HER DECISION IN THIS CASE.

>> I MEAN IT DIDN'T COMPLETELY COLOR MY DECISION.

YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT DID IN TERMS OF HER RULING WAS THAT SHE WAS BASING THE EFFICACY OF MASKS OR THE, YOU KNOW, THE NEED FOR MASKS OFF OF A 1944 RULING ABOUT HEALTH SAFETY AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW THIS, A VERY SPECIFIC TERM SANITATION.

AND HER RULING WAS, WENT ALONG THE LINES THAT MASKS DO NOT PROVIDE SANITATION.

THEY DON'T CLEAN ANYTHING.

SO THAT WAS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, IT WAS INTERESTING BUT REALLY WHERE I WANTED TO START FROM WAS THE WOMEN AND THE ORGANIZATION THAT FILED THE SUIT, THE PLAINTIFFS IN THE SUIT TO SEE KIND OF WHAT THEIR INTERESTS WERE.

YOU KNOW, THINKING THAT THERE HAS TO BE REALLY TELLING REASON WHY THEY WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO SUE THE GOVERNMENT.

>> WELL, I READ YOUR PIECE AND ONE OF THEM OBVIOUSLY HAD A LOT OF REL VANTD EXPERIENCE.

SHE WAS AN EXPERT ON I BELIEVE MAKING FERMENTED KETCHUP, IS THAT NOT CORRECT, ACCORDING TO YOU?

>> YES, FERMENTED KETCHUP, ALMOND BUTTERBALLS, POWER SATE PEANUT BUTTER IS ANOTHER ONE.

YEAH, SHE IS CALLED THE HEALTHY, I ALWAYS WANT TO SAY THE HAPPY HOMEMAKER BUT IT IS THE HEALTHY HOME ECONOMIST, THAT IS HER OFFICIAL TITLE AND HER BLOG.

>> Braude: DID YOU READ HER PIECE THAT WAS ENTITLED, I READ THIS IN HER COLUME.

VAXXED WOMEN INCREASINGLY SHUNNED FROM THE DATING SCENE, DID YOU READ THAT?

IS THERE ANY BACKUP FOR THAT CONCLUSION OR NO.

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AND FROM JUST MY EXPERIENCE OF TALKING TO FRIENDS, PEOPLE WHO AREN'T VACSED WHO ARE FEELING LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BEING SHUNNED BECAUSE NOW IN ADDITION TO PUTTING OTHER WHAT THEIR HOBBIES ARE AND THEIR HEALTH, PEOPLE ARE SAYING THEY'RE VAXXED.

AND ANYWAY, THE THINGS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE SAID IN SIX REASONS WHY I WILL NEVER BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR, AND PRICE IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

SO SHE IS STRIE DENTALLY ANTI-VACS.

AND THAT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT STRUCK ME.

>> Braude: WELL, WHAT STRUCK YOU.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> Braude: YOU MEAN THAT THAT WAS HER-- BUT THAT'S, YOU'RE ENTITLED TO BE A PLAINTIFF AND BE ANTIVACS.

THE HEALTH, WHAT IS IT CALLED THE HEALTH FREEDOM DEFENSE FUND I LEARNED FROM YOU, THE HEAD OF IT BELIEVES THAT BILL GATES IS IMPLANTED WHAT EXACTLY?

THIS IS ONE OF THE PLAINTIFFS, WHAT DID THEY IMPLANT AND WHERE?

>> YEAH, YOU GET VACCINATED AND THERE'S IN THE VACCINATION IS YOUR HEALTH RECORD THAT CAN BE TRACKED.

OR YOUR VACCINATION RECORD, I'M SORRY.

I DON'T WANT TO-- THAT CAN BE TRACKED.

SO YOU KNOW, ALONG WITH ALL OF THOSE FACTORS IS KIND OF GOING BACK TO WHY I WANT TO WEAR A MASK.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HOW THIS DECISION WAS MADE, THE TWO, THE THREE PLAINTIFFS IN THE CASE.

THERE IS ONE WOMAN WHO WAS ACTUALLY DIAGNOSED FROM HER DOCTOR AS HAVING PANIC ATTACKS AND ANG SIGHT FROM WEARING A MASK.

THE HEALTHY HOME ECONOMIST WAS NOT DIAGNOSED BUT SHE FILED SUIT FOR FEAR OF-- .

>> Braude: HAVING A PANIC ATTACK.

>> HAVING A PANIC ATTACK WHICH I SAY IN THE STORY IS LIKE ME NOT FILING TAXES FOR FEAR OF OWING MONEY, YOU KNOW.

>> Braude: INTERESTING.

>> THERE IS NO BASIS TO IT.

AND AGAIN STRIE DENTALLY ANTIVACS.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW.

>> AGAIN, COMPLETELY HER ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT OPINION.

BUT NOTHING TO DO WITH WEARING MASKS.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW ON A SERIOUS NOTE HERE, AND THIS HAS BEEN FAIRLY SERIOUS, THE THING I DON'T GET, I JUST SHOWED TO A COUPLE OF EXPERTS IN THE FIELD, UNLIKE YOU, THAT 56 TO 24, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT THE REQUIREMENT OF MASKS ON PUBLIC TRANSIT YET THARY LINES RUSHED, FORGET THE T, RUSHED TO SAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT AND SO NOT ONLY IN THE FACE OF THE PUBLIC SUPPORTING IT, BUT THE FACT THAT IT IS GOING TO MAKE IT MUCH MORE LIKELY THAT AIRLINES ARE GOING TO LOSE STAFF TO COVID AT A TIME WHEN THEY ARE IN SO MANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT SERVICE, AND FEWER FLIGHTS BECAUSE THEY DON'T THE PERSONNEL.

SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND, I'M SERIOUS, WHAT THE MOTIVATION OF THE AIRLINE IS, DO YOU.

>> I UNDERSTAND.

AND YOU KNOW, FOR OBVIOUSLY FOR YEARS, TWO YEARS THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING.

AND THE AIRLINE AND THE TRAVEL INDUSTRY REALLY WANT TO RESTORE A SENSE OF NORMALCY TO THE WORLD.

AND PART OF THAT IS GETTING RID OF MASKS.

THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT FILTERING IS BETTER THAN A SURGICAL ROOM.

THERE HAS BEEN THAT MESSAGE COMING FROM AIRLINES.

SO THEY'RE THINKING MORE ABOUT WANTING TO RESTORE A SENSE OF NORMALCY.

BUT YOU KNOW, YOU'RE RIGHT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY DID BOTHER ME ABOUT THIS RULING WAS THAT THE INK WAS BARELY DRY AND THE AIRLINES WERE ANNOUNCING THIS-- THROW YOUR MASKS IN THE AIR, PEOPLE WERE MARY TYLER MOORING THEIR MASKS.

IT WAS JUST, UNBELIEVABLE.

AND AGAIN MY BRAIN GOES BACK TO HOW THIS CASE WAS DECIDED.

NOT BY-- NOT BY PEOPLE WHO ARE HEALTH EXPERTS BUT YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO FOLLOWED A-- A JUDGE WHO FOLLOWED A 1944 LAW.

AND A COUPLE OF WOMEN FROM FLORIDA, ONE OF WHOM THINKS THAT THAT BILL GAITSZ CAN TRACK MY MEDICAL RECORD NOW.

WHICH I'M SURE FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM CAN TRACK MUCH WORSE THAN MY MEDICAL RECORD.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO CONDITION BUT I'M BEING SAID, BILL GATES IS SAYING WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

SO WE HAVE GOT TO GO >> Braude: CHRISTOPHER MUTHER, THANKS.

THANKERS FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERTISENESSES.

>> THANKS, JIM THEY SAY NECESSITY IS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION, AND THE BENJAMIN FRANKLIN CUMMINGS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN LIVING PROOF.

THE SCHOOL BROKE GROUND EARLIER THIS MONTH ON ITS NEW CAMPUS IN NUBIAN SQUARE WITH PLANS TO SELL ITS SOUTH END CAMPUS, AND GO TO A PERMANENT HYBRID LEARNING MODEL.

QUITE A FEAT FOR A SCHOOL THAT, UP UNTIL TWO YEARS AGO, RELIED HEAVILY ON ITS HANDS-ON CURRICULUM.

BUT THE MOVE TO HARRISON AVENUE ALSO CONTRIBUTES TO THE TRANSFORMATION OF AN AREA OF ROXBURY THAT, FOR TOO LONG, WAS OVERLOOKED AND UNDER-INVESTED IN, AND THAT'S NOT THE ONLY INVESTMENT THE INSTITUTE IS MAKING IN ROXBURY, WITH THE RECENT ANNOUNCEMENT THAT EVERY SINGLE GRADUATING SENIOR AT THE DEARBORN STEM ACADEMY WILL BE ADMITTED TO A TWO-YEAR PROGRAM WITHOUT EVEN HAVING TO APPLY.

OH, AND THERE'S THAT $12.5 MILLION GRANT.

HELLUVA FEW MONTHS FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE BENJAMIN FRANKLIN CUMMINGS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY, AISHA FRANCIS.

GREAT TO MEET YOU, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, JIM.

>> Braude: CAN WE START WITH THE 12.5 MILLION FROM THE COMINGS FOUNDATION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'M HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> Braude: A HUGE AMOUNT OF TRUST IN YOU AND YOUR INSTITUTION.

AND BY THE WAY, BY MY COUNT, FOUR TIMES YOUR ENDOWMENT, PRACTICALLY EQUAL TO YOUR TOTAL ANNUAL OPERATING BUDGET.

WHY DID THEY DECIDE TO DO THIS, DO YOU SNI.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, BILL AND JOYCE COMINGS HAVE AN AMAZINGLY GENEROUS HEART AND A WONDERFUL SENSE OF WHAT FILL AN THROPY MEANS.

THEY ARE AT A POINT IN THEIR LIVES WHEN THEY ARE INTERESTED AS THEY HAVE EXPLAINED TO ME, IN INVESTING IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES PARTICULARLY FOR UNTAPPED TALENT AND PEOPLE THAT ARE OVERLOOKED.

AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THAT WORD MEANS.

AND THEY HAVE BEEN REALLY INVESTIGATING THROUGH THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND THROUGH VOLUNTEERS ORGANIZATIONLESS AND COLLEGES THAT DID, THAT WORK, THATREALLY HAD A TRACK RECORD OF GETTING PEOPLE FROM LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES INTO GOOD-PAYING JOBS IN SHORT ORDER.

AND THEY LANDED ON US BECAUSE OF OUR REPUTATION AND OUR OUTCOMES.

AND THROUGH CONVERSATIONS WITH BILL IN PARTICULAR WE GOT TO KNOW EACH OTHER AND HE BELIEVES IN OUR NEW DIRECTION AND MY LEADERSHIP.

>> SPEAKING OF DIRECTION.

I SHOULD HAVE STARTED BY SAYING FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH THE INSTITUTE, GIVE US 30 SECONDS OF WHAT DO YOU TRAIN YOUNG PEOPLE TO DO?

WHY ARE YOU THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE ARE A TECHNICAL COLLEGE AND WE ARE LASER FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE THAT STUDENTS HAVE ACCESS TO THE TRADES AND TECHNICAL CAREERS AND HAVE JOBS EVEN BEFORE THEY GRADUATE.

AND MANY OF OUR CAREER PATHS ARE IN THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE ESSENTIAL LIKE THESE ESSENTIAL JOBS THAT PRACTICAL ELECTRICITY, HVAC, MACHINING, ENGINEERING, THINGS THAT MAKE OUR EVERY DAY WORLD TICK.

AND ARE UNDERREPRESENTED IN TERMS OF TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE ACCEPTABLE AND AVAILABLE TO ALL.

SO THAT IS WHAT WE DO AND WE DO THAT WITH PRIDE.

AND YOU MENTIONED THE LEGACY OF BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, YOU KNOW, WE ARE A DIRECT RECIPIENT OF HALF OF HIS ESTATE THAT HE AMASSED OVER HIS LIFETIME.

>> Braude: IS THAT TRUE?

IS THAT TRUE?

>> YES, YES.

BENJAMIN FRANKLIN LEFT HALF OF HIS ESTATE TO THE CITY OF BOSTON FOR THE PURPOSE OF TRAINING PEOPLE IN THE TRADES.

AND OVER TIME THAT LEGACY LEAD TO WHAT WE NOW HAVE AS A COLLEGE.

IT WAS NOT ALWAYS A COLLEGE BUT YES, WE ARE A DIRECT DE SINTD OF THAT CHOICE.

>> Braude: SO GROUND BREAKING IN NUBIAN SQUARE, A READ CHARLIE BAKER'S COMPLENTS.

IT WAS A GREAT MOMENT OF JOY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM BERKELEY STREET, OBVIOUSLY.

WHY DOES THAT MATTER?

>> SO OUR LOCATION IS SUCH AN EXCITING DECISION AND WE HAVE SO MUCH TO LOOK FORWARD TO.

BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE WANTED TO BE IN AN AREA, FIRST WE WANTED TO STAY IN BOSTON BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY THAT I JUST SHARED WITH YOU.

WE WANTED TO BE CLOSER TO MASS TRANSITED TO MULTIPLE FORMS OF MASS TRANSIT, BOTH THE T AND THE BUS WHICH WE ARE.

AND CLOSER TO NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE MOST OF OUR STUDENTS WHO ARE BOSTON RESIDENTS COME FROM.

HALF OF OUR STUDENTS ACTUALLY ARE NOT BOSTON RESIDENTS BUT THOSE WHO ARE BOSTON RESIDENTS MOSTLY RESIDE IN MATTAPAN, HYDE PARK, ROXBURY AND DORCHESTER.

SO IT MAKES US MORE ACCESSIBLE.

THAN OUR LOCATION, OUR HISTORIC LOCATION IN THE SOUTH END.

AND WE'RE PART OF, YOU KNOW, A REVITALIZATION OF TWO BLOCKS OF A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE CURRENTLY REALLY ONLY PARKING LOTS AND DERELICT BUILDINGS.

AND WE ARE VERY EXCITED THAT BY THE FALL OF 2024, WE WILL BE IN OUR NEW LOCATION.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M JEALOUS OF THE 12.5 MILLION.

YOUR LOCATION MOVE IS GREAT BUT MY ULTIMATE JEL OSY IS SOME DAY I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TURN TO SENIORS AT ANY HIGH SCHOOL AND SAY QUOTE YOU WERE THE CLASS OF 2022.

YOU ARE ALL, ALL ACCEPTED.

THOSE ARE THE WORDS, YOU GOT TO SAY.

WHAT WAS THE REACTION?

I MEAN IT WAS A TOTAL SURPRISE TO THE SENIORS AT DEER BORN STEM ACADEMY.

WHAT WAS THE REACTION?

YOU GOT TO SEE THEIR EYES, WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

>> HONESTLY, I THINK THE FIRST FEW SECONDS AFTER WE MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT THERE WAS A BIT OF A DELAYED RESPONSE, A DELAYED REACTION AND THEN CAME THE APPLAUSE AND THE SMILES AND FOLKS RECEIVING THEIR ACCEPT ANSPACH AGES.

AND ALL OF THE BUZZ THAT WAS SO JOYFUL AND DELIGHTFUL TO WITNESS.

>> AND BY THE WAY, WHILE IT DOESN'T GUARANTEE A FULL RIDE I'M ASSUMING FROM THE COMINGS MONEY, 100,000 DLOR GRAND FROM THE ECONOMIC COUNCIL OF MASSACHUSETTS THAT WILL FILL HOLES THAT FEDERAL STUDENT AID DOES NOT FILL.

IS THAT THE EXPECTATION?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THERE ARE OTHER STEUNTS-- OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO GIVE AND WE ARE FUNDRAISING AROUND THAT EFFORT WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF SPROFORTERS IN NUBIAN SQUARE, AND IN THE SUCCESS OF ALL OF THE STUDENTS AT DEAR BORN AS WELL AS OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFILIATED WITH THE DEAR BORN STEM ACADEMY.

AND WITH BENJAMIN FRANKLIN COMINGS INSTITUTE.

>> Braude: DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT PERCENTAGE WILL ACCEPT, I KNOW THEY HAVE UNTIL MAY 1ST.

>> THEY DO.

THEY HAVE SOME TIME TO DECIDE AND SO WE ARE WAITINGS PATIENTLY WHILE THEY WEIGH THEIR CHOICES.

SOME STUDENTS HAD OTHER INSTITUTIONS THAT THEY HAD APPLIED TO AND YOU KNOW, INTERESTINGLY T MANY OTHER STUDENTS DID NOT.

AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND ALL OF THEIR OPTIONS AND HAVE ALL OF IT THE OPPORTUNITY TO DECIDE THAT THEY SHOULD AS FOLKS WHO HAVE WORKED HARD TO ACHIEVE THEIR DIPLOMAS.

>> AISHA FRANCIS, GREAT TO MEET YOU, SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT SPHEUD FUTURE AHEAD, YOU AND THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TELL YOU ABOUT OUR STORY.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

ADAM REILLY AND HIS PANEL WILL TAKE UP MAURA HEALEY'S GROWING LEAD IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

PLUS, ELIZABETH WARREN ISSUED A PRESCRIPTION FOR HER PARTY TO AVOID A MIDTERM ELECTION DISASTER.

BUT DOES SHE HAVE THE INFLUENCE THESE DAYS TO INSPIRE ACTION AMONG HER FELLOW DEMOCRATS?

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND STAY SAFE.

(upbeat jazz music) >> Wait, did I just commit a crime?

Hey, folks!

I'm Edgar B. Herwick III From GBH's "Curiosity Desk," Where you ask questions And I find answers.

Today's question comes Courtesy of Betty Davis From Gloucester, Massachusetts, Who wants to know, Is it in fact a crime To remove these labels?

Now you find these guys On pillows, mattresses, Even a lot of winter coats.

And the reason why is Because you cannot see What is inside of those items.

Now today, pillows, for example, Are usually stuffed With feathers or cotton Or some kind of synthetic material.

But, according to Maggie Terry, back in the day They put some pretty gnarly Stuff in the stuffing.

>> I mean, it Used to be years ago, They'd throw anything they Wanted to into the bedding.

Newspapers, dirty rags-- >> Horse hair, used Hospital or hotel mattresses, Corn husks-- >> Sweepings off the floor, Part of your lunches, droppings.

I mean, anything.

>> For starters, that's disgusting.

And furthermore, it's Dangerous and unhealthy.

So today, a lot of states Require these labels That tell you what is inside of the item.

And it is against the law To remove them.

Sort of.

Retailers and manufacturers can be fined If they remove the labels, But once you buy it, or I buy it, If you read closely most Of these end with the line, "Except by the consumer."

So there you have it.

Feel free to rip away.

Don't forget to follow And tell us what you are curious about Because, hey, I might Just look into it for you.

I'm Edgar B. Herwick III, Stay curious out there.

(upbeat music) Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org