♪ >> FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

IT WAS ANOTHER BUSY WEEK IN THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE AS THE HOUSE AND SENATE MET FOR THE 24TH AND 25TH LEGISLATIVE DAYS.

THAT LEAVES US WITH FIVE DAYS REMAINING IN THE SESSION.

THE TENTATIVE PLAN IS TO SPREAD THOSE FIVE MEETING DAYS OVER THE NEXT TWO WEEKS AND END THE SESSION BEFORE MOTHERS DAY.

BUT THERE IS A SMALL CHANCE THE SESSION COULD STRETCH INTO THAT THIRD WEEK OF MAY.

WE'LL KNOW FOR SURE SOON ENOUGH.

IN THE SENATE THIS WEEK, MOVEMENT ON THE EDUCATION TRUST FUND.

THAT'S THE BUDGET THAT FUNDS THE RANGE OF EDUCATION SERVICES FROM PRE-K TO HIGHER ED.

"CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" JEFF SANDERS IS TRACKING ITS PROGRESS.

>> FOLLOWING THE PASSAGE OF A HISTORIC $9.3 BILLION TRUST FUND BUDGET THE FOCUS SHIFTED TO THE EDUCATION COMMITTEE TO BREAK DOWN THE NUMBERS.

>> WHEN YOU ARE THE SECOND CHAMBER, THE CONCRETE BEGINS TO SET AFTER THAT FIRST CHAMBER HAS PASSED THE BUDGET AND THINGS GET A LITTLE BIT MORE TRICKY AS YOU GO TO TRY TO FIND MONEY TO MEET THE PRIORITIES OF YOUR MEMBERS.

>> DURING A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE BUDGET, A CLEAR PRIORITY EMERGED, THE ALLOCATION OF FUNDS FOR THE SUMMER MEAL PROGRAM AIMED AT SUPPORTING LOW-INCOME CHILDREN.

>> FOOD INSECURITY RISES DURING THE SUMMER AND ALABAMA CHILDREN AND TEENS WHO PARTICIPATE IN SCHOOL LUNCH AND BREAKFAST PROGRAMS WILL LOSE ACCESS TO THESE NUTRITIOUS MEALS.

>> WE'RE REALLY HERE TO SEE THAT HUNGRY PEOPLE ARE FED.

WE'RE ASKING YOU AS YOU LOOK AT THE 2025 BUDGET TO LOOK AT THE PORTION THAT WILL ALLOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO PAY FOR SUMMER MEALS IN 2025 IN THE 80 TO $100 MILLION RANGE.

>> THE STATE PREVIOUSLY CHOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM FOR 2024.

HOWEVER, REJOINING FOR 2025 WOULD LIKELY REQUIRE SPENDING MORE THAN $10 MILLION FOR ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

>> FINDING $10 MILLION, WHAT BOOBY TRAPS ARE THERE OUT THERE, LAND MINES THAT MIGHT BE TRIGGERED AS WE MOVE RESOURCES FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.

>> FOR DEMOCRATS ON THE COMMITTEE FINDING THE FUNDING SOMEWHERE APPEAR TO BE A TOP PRIORITY.

>> NOT SO MUCH AS A BIG DEAL TO ANYBODY ELSE BUT I'M JUST SPEAKING TO SAY I'M SUPPORTING YOU ALL 110%.

WE'RE GOING TO FEED THESE CHILDREN.

>> A VOTE ON THE BUDGET IS EXPECTED HERE IN COMMITTEE NEXT TUESDAY WITH A POSSIBLE FINAL VOTE ON THE SENATE FLOOR BY THE END OF NEXT WEEK.

FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," I'M JEFF SANDERS.

>>> ALSO IN THE SENATE THIS WEEK, THINGS GOT A LITTLE TENSE WHEN A VETERANS HEALTH CARE BILL CAME TO THE FLOOR.

SENATE BILL 135 FROM SENATOR ANDREW JONES WOULD ESTABLISH AN INTEGRATED HEALTH NETWORK FOR VETERANS HEALTH CARE SPECIFICALLY TARGETED TOWARD MENTAL HEALTH, SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND SUICIDE PREVENTION.

BUT TWO SENATORS WHO ARE VETERANS THEMSELVES OBJECTED TO THE BILL SAYING IT WOULD DUPLICATE SERVICES AND POSSIBLY RUN UP UNSUSTAINABLE COSTS.

THE BILL WAS CARRIED OVER, WHICH ANGERED JONES BECAUSE HE NEVER GOT A CHANCE TO EXPLAIN IT.

>> YOU CAN'T CREATE OR HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH THE LAYERS OF GOVERNMENT WHEN YOU ADD ANOTHER LAYER.

THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.

>> MOTION TO CARRY OVER.

>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.

>> AYE.

>> OPPOSED.

>> NO.

>> I'D LIKE TO KEEP DISCUSSING IT.

>> THE AYES HAVE IT.

THAT BILL IS CARRIED OVER.

FRANKLY, I'M A LITTLE APPALLED AT THE TACTICS OF MY COLLEAGUE TO COME IN HERE AND JUST CARRY SOMETHING OVER.

>> SENATOR JONES, WHEN DID YOU -- >> I'D LIKE TO KNOW.

>> HOLD ON.

WE CAN'T HAVE A DISCUSSION ON POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE.

LET'S GO TO THE NEXT BILL.

>> CAN I FINISH MY POINT?

>> SURE.

WE JUST CAN'T ATTACK OTHER SENATORS ON THE FLOOR, RIGHT?

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I'D JUST ASK IF ANYONE HAS CONCERNS, PLEASE COME TO ME AND TALK ABOUT THEM BECAUSE THIS IS -- THIS WAS A BILL THAT WAS WORKED OUT AND AGREED TO BY THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, BY THE DEPARTMENT OF MENTAL HEALTH, BY ALL OF THE PROVIDERS, AND THE HOUSE SPONSOR AND I.

>>> THE SENATE ALSO GAVE FINAL PASSAGE TO LEGISLATION AIMED AT PREVENTING SQUATTING IN ALABAMA.

THERE IS A NATIONAL TREND OF INDIVIDUALS TAKING UP RESIDENCE AT SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY AND MANIPULATING TENANT LAWS TO REMAIN.

HOUSE BILL 182 FROM REPRESENTATIVE CRAIG LIPSCOMB GIVES PROPERTY OWNERS MORE LEGAL TOOLS FOR HAVING UNWANTED SQUATTERS REMOVED AND INCREASES THE PENALTIES FOR SQUATTING.

SOMEONE WHO ENTERS A PROPERTY ILLEGALLY AND CAUSES $1,000 IN DAMAGE COULD BE CHARGED WITH A CLASS C FELONY, WHICH IS PUNISHABLE BY ONE TO TEN YEARS IN PRISON.

>> THANKFULLY, IT'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE IN ALABAMA YET.

IT IS AN ISSUE TO SOME EXTENT BUT WE ARE TRYING TO BE PROACTIVE INSTEAD OF REACTIVE.

AFTER WATCHING WHAT IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE NATION, ESPECIALLY IN GEORGIA, THERE ARE SOME HOT SPOTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE INSTRUCTED ON HOW TO TAKE OVER PEOPLE'S REAL ESTATE AND TO NOT ONLY INHABIT IT BUT, IN SOME CASES, POTENTIALLY OWN IT.

WE WANT TO PREVENT THAT BEFORE IT BECOMES A PROBLEM HERE.

>> THAT BILL IS ON IT'S WAY TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

>>> IN THE HOUSE, MULTIPLE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES CAME TO THE FLOOR THIS WEEK.

WITH THE DAYS WINDING DOWN, SOME LAWMAKERS FELT LIKE IT WAS THEIR LAST CHANCE TO GET LEGISLATION MOVING IN THE PROCESS.

"CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" RANDY SCOTT HAS THAT STORY.

>> LAWMAKERS ARE DEBATING BILLS THROUGHOUT THE LOWER CHAMBER, BUT MANY ARE STILL WATCHING FOR ACTION ON THE GAMBLING PACKAGE.

A MEMBER OF THE CONFERENCE COMMITTEE GIVES AN UPDATE.

>> THE COMMITTEE IS WORKING TOGETHER VERY WELL.

WE HAVE DISCUSSED THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO VERSIONS, THE HOUSE AND SENATE BILL AND SOME WERE PRETTY VAST DIFFERENCES.

I THINK I'M CONFIDENT THAT SOME OF THOSE WE CAN OVERCOME.

I THINK WE ARE WORKING TOWARD OVERCOMING THOSE AND I'M VERY POSITIVE ABOUT OUR ABILITY TO PRODUCE A PRODUCT.

>> OTHER PROPOSALS COVER ISSUES RANGING FROM EDUCATION TO CRIME.

HOUSE BILL 414 SETS TOUGHER RULES REGARDING SECURING FIREARMS.

>> THE BILL SIMPLY SAYS IF A YOUNG PERSON TAKES A GUN ON TO A SCHOOL CAMPUS AND AUTHORITIES FIND OUT THAT THE GUN WAS SECURED OR IS OWNED BY A PARENT OR GUARDIAN OR LOVED ONE, THAT INDIVIDUAL WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF THAT GUN WAS NOT PROPERLY SECURED.

>> ON THE HOUSE FLOOR, DEBATE OVER HOUSE BILL 385 ADDRESSES GUIDELINES FOR EXPOSING YOUTH TO QUESTIONABLE MATERIAL.

>> ANY SEXUAL OR GENDER-ORIENTED CONDUCT THAT KNOWINGLY EXPOSES MINORS TO PERSONS WHO ARE DRESSED IN A SEXUALLY REVEALING, EXAGGERATED OR PROVOCATIVE CLOTHING, COSTUMES, STRIPPING OR ENGAGING IN LEWD, LASCIVIOUS DANCING, PRESENTATIONS OR ACTIVITIES IN K-12 PUBLIC SCHOOLS OR LIBRARIES WHERE MINORS ARE EXPECTED AND KNOWN TO BE PRESENT WITHOUT PARENTAL PRESENCE OR CONSENT.

>> YOU KNOW, I AGREE.

WE DON'T WANT OUR YOUTH AND CHILDREN EXPOSED TO DIFFERENT ACTS, BUT I THINK THIS ONE IS KIND OF STEPPING ON SOME FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

>> HOUSE BILL 385 PASSES.

FROM THE STATEHOUSE, RANDY SCOTT, "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>>> THE HOUSE ALSO DEBATED THE ISSUE OF SEXUAL CONTENT IN PUBLIC SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

LAST YEAR, THE STATE ENACTED A LAW PROHIBITING CONTENT THAT WAS NOT AGE APPROPRIATE FROM BEING TAUGHT IN GRADES KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 5TH GRADE.

THIS INCLUDES INSTRUCTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS RELATED TO GENDER IDENTITY OR SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

HOUSE BILL 130 FROM REPRESENTATIVE MACK BUTLER SEEKS TO EXTEND THAT PROHIBITION INTO THE HIGHER GRADES.

IT ORIGINALLY SOUGHT TO EXTEND IT ALL THE WAY THROUGH 12TH GRADE, BUT IT WAS AMENDED TO STOP AT THE 8TH GRADE.

THE BILL WOULD ALSO PROHIBIT PUBLIC SCHOOL EMPLOYEES FROM DISPLAYING A FLAG OR OTHER INSIGNIA REPRESENTING A GENDER IDEOLOGY.

>> TEACHING ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR SEXUAL OR GENDER IDENTITY FROM THE FIFTH TO 12TH GRADE, BUT REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMONDS HAS AN AMENDMENT TO TAKE IT TO THE 8TH GRADE, WHICH WE CONSIDER A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS K-8.

>> I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TEXTING, EMAILING, TWEETING ME OR IG'ING ME TO SAY I VOTED FOR NOTHING CRAZY LIKE THIS BECAUSE MY BELIEF IS YOU CAN PASS WHATEVER BILL YOU WANT TO IN THIS HOUSE -- I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE -- BUT UNTIL WE REGULATE THESE IN THE HANDS OF CHILDREN WHO ARE SCHOOL AGED YOU CAN RUN AROUND AND PASS EVERY BILL AGAINST ANY EDUCATOR YOU WANT TO.

THE MOST DEADLY WEAPON THAT A CHILD HAS IS A CELL PHONE.

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.

>> AFTER A LENGTHY DEBATE THAT BILL PASSED AND NOW GOES TO THE SENATE.

>>> ALSO IN THE HOUSE THIS WEEK, LAWMAKERS TOOK UP LEGISLATION ON THE ISSUE OF UNIONIZATION.

SENATE BILL 231 FROM SENATOR ARTHUR ORR WOULD PROHIBIT ANY ECONOMIC INCENTIVE DOLLARS FROM GOING TO COMPANIES THAT VOLUNTARILY RECOGNIZE A UNION WITHOUT A VOTE AMONG WORKERS.

THEY COULD ALSO LOOSE THOSE INCENTIVES IF THEY FAIL TO PROVIDE FOR A SECRET BALLOT IN UNION ELECTIONS.

MAJORITY LEADER SCOTT STADTHAGEN CARRIED THE BILL IN THE HOUSE AND ARGUED IT WOULD NOT IMPACT CURRENT COMPANIES WHO ALREADY HAVE A UNION, BUT IT WOULD SERVE AS A DETERRENT TO THOSE WHO'S WORKERS ARE CONSIDERING UNIONIZATION RIGHT NOW, NAMELY MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI.

>> SB 231 GIVES THE EMPLOYEES THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON A PRIVATE BALLOT.

IT DOES NOT AFFECT INDUSTRIES RIGHT NOW THAT ARE CURRENTLY VOTING THE WAY THEY ARE.

IT IS JUST FOR FUTURE AFTER THE BILL IS SIGNED.

>> I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW THAT IS FORCING US TO GET TO THIS POINT.

WE ALREADY HAVE A RIGHT TO WORK.

WE ALREADY HAVE THE OPTION FOR SECRET BALLOTS.

>> THE EMPLOYER CAN DECIDE IF IT WANTS TO BE CARD CHECKED OR PRIVATE OWNED.

THIS WOULD BASICALLY SAY THE EMPLOYEE WILL HAVE A PRIVATE VOTE.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE EMPLOYEE.

I THINK THEY'D LIKE THAT.

>> OKAY.

DO YOU SUPPORT THE UNION?

>> THAT'S IRRELEVANT TO THIS BILL.

>> IT'S A UNION BILL.

>> IT DEPENDS ON THE UNION.

>> WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE UNIONS?

>> IT DEPENDS ON SOME UNIONS.

SOME HAVE BEEN PART OF THE STATE A LONG TIME AND WORKED VERY WELL.

>> OKAY.

OKAY.

>> THE BILL PASSED BUT WAS AMENDED SO IT GOES BACK TO THE SENATE.

I WILL TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE WITH SECRETARY OF COMMERCE ELLEN MCNAIR LATER IN THE SHOW.

THE HOUSE WILL LIKELY TAKE UP THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET NEXT WEEK.

THEY'LL ALSO LIKELY CONSIDER LEGISLATION FROM BUDGET COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN REX REYNOLDS ALLOCATING SOME OF THE STATE'S OPIOID SETTLEMENT FUNDS.

I SPOKE WITH CHAIRMAN REYNOLDS YESTERDAY ABOUT WHERE THIS MONEY IS BEING DIRECTED.

>> DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, WE HAVE BEEN DOING TREATMENT TO INMATES WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF THEIR RELEASE AND WE FOLLOWED THE PROCESS INTO THE PROBATION AND PAROLES, WHEN THEY ARE ON PAROLE AND TRACK THEM WITH TREATMENT, IF NEEDED.

OF COURSE, 20% OF THIS FUNDING, LITTLE OVER $20 MILLION WILL GO TO MENTAL HEALTH.

THAT WILL BE A GRANT PROCESS, JUST LIKE WE DID THE 8.5 MILLION AND THE 10 LAST YEAR.

WE HAD A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS GET FUNDING FROM THAT.

THE AVERAGE GRANT WAS 300, 400 THOUSAND DOLLARS.

THAT WILL WORK SIMILAR THIS TIME.

OUTSIDE OF THAT, WE ALSO -- INCLUDED IN THAT 20 MILLION, WE INCLUDED 3 MILLION FOR THE 988 HOTLINE CONNECTED TO THE ABUSE OF OPIOIDS.

AND 3 MILLION FOR VETERANS FOR A PILOT PROGRAM.

I CALL IT THE ECOSYSTEM OF CARE.

WE WANT TO PUT IT OUT AS AN RFP AND SEE WHO IN ALABAMA CAN OFFER THAT CARE FOR OUR VETERANS.

AND THEN FINALLY WE HAD AUBURN UNIVERSITY.

THEY ALREADY HAVE A PHARMACY SCHOOL THAT'S DOING OPIOID RESEARCH, OPIOID TRAINING FOR NOT ONLY THEIR PHARMACISTS BUT OTHER PHYSICIANS.

THEY ARE BEGINNING K-12 PROGRAMS AND BEYOND FOR EDUCATION ON THE PREVENTION SIDE.

WE ALLOCATED THEM $1 MILLION TO EXPAND THOSE PROGRAMS THROUGHOUT ALABAMA.

AND THEN TO UAB, BIRMINGHAM AREA, THEY HAVE GOT A SMALL PROGRAM IN TUSCALOOSA AND IN INTO MONTGOMERY, AND WE'RE ADDING ADDITIONAL RESIDENCIES FOR PSYCHIATRY.

THAT WILL ASSIST IN SOME OF THOSE SUFFERING FROM ADDICTIONS, AND ALSO THE VIOLENT CRIME THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.

>>> AN INTERESTING MEETING THIS WEEK ON HEALTH CARE AND POTENTIAL MEDICAID EXPANSION.

HOUSE AND SENATE HEALTH COMMITTEE MEMBERS INVITED LEADERS FROM ARKANSAS AND NORTH CAROLINA TO TALK ABOUT THEIR STATES' EXPERIENCE EXPANDING MEDICAID.

THOSE STATES ARE SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE NORTH CAROLINA IS THE LATEST STATE TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON EXPANSION AND ARKANSAS YEARS AGO IMPLEMENTED A PUBLIC PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP SIMILAR TO WHAT ALABAMA LEADERS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS INCREDIBLY SMART THEY ASKED ARKANSAS AND NORTH CAROLINA TO COME IN AND JUST TALK ABOUT THE WAY THEY HAD CHOSEN TO DO THEIR MEDICAID EXPANSIONS, JUST TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT.

THIS IS JUST GIVING THEM INFORMATION.

WHEN A STATE DECIDES IT WANTS TO GO DOWN THE PATH OF CHANGING ITS MEDICAID COVERAGE, EXPANDING OR CHANGING IT, ADDING SERVICES, THAT STATE HAS TO DECIDE IN A WAY THAT WORKS FOR THE ACTUAL STATE.

YOU CAN'T JUST COME IN AND COPY ARKANSAS EXACTLY OR COPY NORTH CAROLINA EXACTLY.

EACH STATE IS DIFFERENT.

EVERY MEDICAID PROGRAM IS DIFFERENT.

>> I'LL SPEAK IN MORE DETAIL ON THIS ISSUE WITH DANNE HOWARD OF THE ALABAMA HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION LATER IN THE SHOW.

>>> RENEWED CALLS THIS WEEK FOR HELPING MORE ALABAMA PARENTS AFFORD CHILDCARE AND THUS REMOVING A BARRIER FROM THEM ENTERING THE WORKFORCE.

LEGISLATIVE LEADERS WERE JOINED BY ADVOCATES FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN AT A PRESS CONFERENCE AS THEY URGED THE SENATE TO PASS LEGISLATION OFFERING TAX INCENTIVES FOR EXPANDING ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CHILDCARE.

>> IT'S AMAZING, TO ME, ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCH, 50% OF THE MOTHERS CONSIDERED LEAVING THE WORKFORCE BECAUSE OF CHILD CARE.

THAT'S AMAZING.

85,000 FAMILIES IN THE STATE NEED SOME TYPE OF CHILD CARE.

IT ONLY MAKES SENSE THESE WOMEN ARE WANTING TO GET BACK IN THE WORKFORCE BUT WHEN YOU ARE PAYING $12,000 A YEAR, SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF THAT FOR CHILD CARE AND YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF KIDS IT MAKES IT HARD.

IF YOU HAVE TWO KIDS IT'S $24,000 AND YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR UTILITIES AND GAS AND OVERHEAD FOR YOUR FAMILY, FOR A SINGLE MOM IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.

WE REALIZE THAT AN INCREASE TO WORKFORCE PARTICIPATION RATE WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE A PATHWAY FOR FAMILIES TO BE ABLE TO REENTER THE WORKFORCE.

THIS IS THE PERFECT PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT'S GOING TO MAKE US STRONGER THAN WE HAVE BEEN BEFORE.

I KNOW WORKFORCE PARTICIPATION HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR THE STATE AND ACROSS THE NATION.

I DO THINK THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WILL HELP THOSE FAMILIES GET BACK IN THE WORKFORCE.

IT WILL HELP BUSINESSES TO BUILD OUT A FACILITY ON SITE, OR PARTNER IN ORDER TO EXPAND ACCESS TO CHILD CARE AND THEN THE CREDITS WILL HELP THOSE WORKING FAMILIES BE ABLE TO GET SOME MONEY TOWARD PAYING FOR CHILD CARE.

THE ACCESSIBILITY AND AFFORDABILITY IS IMPORTANT.

AND THEN THE QUALITY.

>>> AND THOSE ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THIS WEEK IN THE LEGISLATURE.

THE HOUSE AND SENATE WILL RETURN ON TUESDAY TO BEGIN THE FINAL STRETCH OF THE SESSION.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH THIS WEEK'S GUEST INTERVIEW PORTION OF THE SHOW.

STAY WITH US.

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♪ KEEP UP WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

♪ >> WELCOME BACK TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

JOINING ME NEXT IS ELLEN MCNAIR, SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FOR THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

THANKS FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU.

PLEASURE.

>> WELL, I WANTED TO START BY GETTING YOU TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF A LITTLE BIT.

YOU ARE THE NEW SECRETARY OF COMMERCE.

GREG CANFIELD WAS THE OLD ONE.

>> YEAH, 12 YEARS.

>> TALK ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND AND SORT OF THE ROLE OF THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE.

>> HUGE SHOES TO FILL.

FOR 12 YEARS HE LED THIS DEPARTMENT.

THE TEAM ENJOYED -- IT'S GOING TO BE VERY HARD TO DUPLICATE, BUT MY EXPERIENCE, I HAVE BEEN -- I HATE TO USE THIS NUMBER BUT 40 YEARS IN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

PRIMARILY AT THE LOCAL LEVEL WITH THE MONTGOMERY CHAMBER, BUT I ALSO HAVE WORKED AT THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE TWICE IN MY CAREER, ONCE AS A PROJECT MANAGER AND THEN ONCE LEADING THE RESEARCH DEPARTMENT THERE.

>> INTERESTING.

>> SO, I HAVE HAD THAT STATE-WIDE EXPERIENCE IN THE PAST, BUT I THINK HAVING THE BACKGROUND OF A LOCAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPER IS EXTREMELY HELPFUL IN THIS POSITION BECAUSE YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGES AND THE OPPORTUNITIES AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

QUITE FRANKLY, THAT'S WHERE SO MUCH OF THE WORK IS DONE, THE SITE PREPARATION, THE COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT, AND ALL OF THE PARTNERS THAT ARE NECESSARY TO COME TOGETHER.

THAT'S BROUGHT TOGETHER AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD, FROM THIS CHAIR, TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THOSE LOCAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATIONS.

>> WELL, I SAW THE OTHER DAY THAT Y'ALL AND THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED THE DEVELOPMENT OF A NEW STRATEGY.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT WASN'T AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF ANOTHER STRATEGY BUT SAYING WE ARE GOING TO TAKE MONTHS TO DEVELOP ONE.

WHAT GOES IN TO THAT AND WHAT'S THE GOAL?

>> SURE.

THE ONE THING THAT GOVERNOR IVEY ASKED ME TO DO AS I JOINED THIS TEAM IS TO DEVELOP A NEW STRATEGIC PLAN FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE.

THE LAST PLAN WAS DONE IN 2012.

>> IS THAT THE ACCELERATE ALABAMA.

>> AND THEN ADJUSTED AND MODIFIED A LITTLE BIT IN 2016.

THE WORLD HAS CHANGED A GOOD BIT IN THOSE YEARS.

SO IT REALLY IS TIME TO DO ANOTHER APPROACH.

SO, THAT'S A BIG THING.

IN TRYING TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITIES OF WHERE WE ARE AND REALLY PREDICTING THE FUTURE, IT'S A BIG CHALLENGE.

IT'S A BIG JOB TO DO.

SO I BROUGHT TOGETHER A CORE GROUP OF PEOPLE, BILL POOLE WHO, OF COURSE, IS THE FINANCE DIRECTOR FOR THE STATE, BUT REALLY HIS ROLE -- I ASKED HIM TO JOIN BECAUSE OF HIS ROLE WITH INNOVATE ALABAMA.

HE WAS CHAIRMAN -- IS CHAIRMAN OF THAT EFFORT NOW.

WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS OF A STRATEGIC PLAN AND IMPLEMENTATION AND HIS EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE IN THAT PROCESS IS SO HELPFUL.

GREG BARKER, PRESIDENT OF THE EDPA AND OF COURSE EDPA IS AN INCREDIBLE PARTNER WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR INPUT THAT EDPA BRINGS TO BEAR.

GREG PERSONALLY IS ONE OF THE FINEST ECONOMIC DEVELOPERS IN THE STATE.

AND THEN THE THIRD PERSON IS DR. DAVID BRAWNER.

YOU CANNOT OVERSELL THE IMPACT THAT HE AND HIS ORGANIZATION OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA AND THE RESOURCES THAT THEY BRING TO THE TABLE.

>> KIND OF SYNONYMOUS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I REALLY WANTED TO BRING IN SOME GREAT THINKERS, SOME GREAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THINKERS BUT ALSO PEOPLE THAT GET THINGS DONE.

ALL THREE OF THOSE ORGANIZATIONS AND THOSE INDIVIDUALS NOT NOT ONLY ARE VISIONARIES, BUT THEY MAKE THINGS HAPPEN.

>> WHAT'S THE TIMELINE?

WHEN SHOULD WE EXPECT A NEW STRATEGIC PLAN?

>> WHAT THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED LAST WEEK IS THE HIRING.

THE CORE TEAM WE DISCUSSED REALLY DEVELOPED A STRATEGY AND TIME FRAME.

I HAVE A DEADLINE THAT I TOLD GOVERNOR IVEY I'D GIVE HER OUR PROCESS BY THE END OF MARCH, WHICH IS WHAT I DID.

WE HAVE HIRED MCKENZIE AND COMPANY, WORLD-CLASS CONSULTANT TO DO THE QUANTITATIVE PIECE.

REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT THOSE TARGETS SHOULD BE, AND REALLY LOOKING AT BOTH THE OPPORTUNITIES AND THE CHALLENGES THAT WE MAY FACE IN THOSE TARGETS, BECAUSE SOME OF OUR TARGETS -- FOR INSTANCE, OVER 1.5 MILLION INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES ARE PRODUCED IN ALABAMA IN ONE YEAR.

SO, THAT MAY FACE A CHALLENGE IN THE FUTURE.

WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT MCKENZIE TO COME IN AND REALLY HELP US TO PREDICT THE FUTURE AND WHERE OUR OPPORTUNITIES WILL COME IN.

THEN WE NEED A PROCESS TO GATHER EVERYONE'S VOICE IN THIS.

THERE WERE SO MANY ENTITIES AND INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS OUR STATE THAT REALLY NEED INPUT INTO THIS STRATEGIC PLAN.

SO, WE HAVE CONTRACTED WITH TROY UNIVERSITY AND ALABAMA A& M TO HELP TO DIRECT THE PROCESS.

BECAUSE WE NEEDED A VERY THOUGHTFUL, STRATEGIC PROCESS TO GET ALL OF THAT INPUT TO THE MCKENZIE TEAM TO BE ABLE TO BUILD AND HAVE A VOICE IN THIS STRATEGIC PLAN.

>> RESEARCH BASED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> YEAH.

>> SO WE WILL BE REACHING OUT ACROSS THE STATE, THROUGHOUT THE SPRING AND SUMMER TO GET ALL OF THAT INPUT, ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT PARTNERS THAT WE NEED THEIR INPUT IN, AND THEN INCORPORATE THAT WITH THE WORK THAT MCKENZIE IS DOING.

THE THIRD PART OF THIS, THAT WE WILL GO TO REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL PROBABLY MID TO LATE SUMMER, WILL BE THE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN.

ONCE THE PLAN STARTS DEVELOPING A LITTLE BIT MORE, WE WILL THEN LOOK AT HOW COMMERCE NEEDS TO BE STRUCTURED.

ARE WE STRUCTURED PROPERLY TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT THE STRATEGIC PLAN?

REALLY TAKE A LOOK AT HOW WE ARE SET UP AND THEN HOW WE RELATE TO BCA, EDPA AND THE ECONOMIC ASSOCIATION OF ALABAMA AND HOW WE WORK TOGETHER WITH GROUPS BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT IS -- I MEAN IT IS SUCH A BLESSING TO HAVE THE LEADERS OF THOSE GROUPS.

THEY ARE SO LIKE MINDED AND SO WILLING TO BE PARTNERS, BUT WE WANT TO SET THIS UP FOR, YOU KNOW, CONTINUED AND SUSTAINABLE PARTNERSHIPS LONG AFTER THOSE OF US SITTING IN THESE CHAIRS RIGHT NOW ARE GONE.

>> A SOUP TO NUTS RE-EVALUATION.

>> IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

>> LOOK FORWARD TO THAT.

>> AND MCKENZIE HAS DONE SO MUCH WORK IN THIS AREA.

THEY HAVE WORKED WITH OVER 25 STATES.

I MET LAST WEEK WITH THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS AND THEY HAVE HIRED MCKENZIE TO DO A VERY SIMILAR FUNCTION.

SO, WE KNOW MCKENZIE HAS SKILL SETS TO DO THIS.

THEY HAVE BEEN ACTIVE WITH THE KENTUCKY PROGRAM AND VIRGINIA.

THEY REALLY -- THEIR PROPOSAL WAS EXTREMELY STRONG WITH A LOT OF GREAT EXPERIENCE.

>> WE WILL BE FOLLOWING THAT.

YOU MENTIONED INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES, THAT MAKES ME THINK OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY IN ALABAMA AND IT'S REALLY IN THE NEWS RIGHT NOW.

REALLY FACING MAY BE A TURNING POINT BECAUSE YOU HAVE SERIOUS UNIONIZATION EFFORTS THERE AT MERCEDES, REALLY THE FIRST AUTOMAKER IN ALABAMA AND ALSO NOW AT HYUNDAI.

WE HAVE A VOTE COMING UP IN MAY AT MERCEDES.

HYUNDAI MAY BE AROUND THE CORNER.

YOU JUST SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN VOLKSWAGEN IN CHATTANOOGA ACROSS THE BORDER.

THE STATE HAS BEEN RESISTANT TO THIS, THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN RESISTANT, LEGISLATION LEADERS.

WHY IS THAT?

WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, IF UNIONIZATION EFFORTS START TO HAPPEN AT AUTOMAKERS IN ALABAMA?

>> NATIONWIDE, UAW NUMBERS HAVE BEEN STEADILY GOING DOWN.

THEY NEEDED A NEW SUPPLY OF MEMBERS TO JOIN THEIR RANKS.

THEY ADMITTED VERY PUBLICLY THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND OVER $40 MILLION TO UNIONIZE THE INTERNATIONAL MANUFACTURERS THAT ARE PRIMARILY IN THE SOUTH AND THEY TARGETED SPECIFICALLY, AS YOU SAID, VOLKSWAGEN, MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI INITIALLY.

THIS IS EXTREMELY CONCERNING TO US THAT OUTSIDE -- OUTSIDE THE STATE, OUTSIDE THE SOUTH, ORGANIZERS ARE COMING IN TO OUR STATE REALLY TRYING TO DISRUPT AN INDUSTRY THAT'S POWERED OUR STATE FOR SO MANY DECADES.

OVER 50,000 PEOPLE ENJOY THEIR CAREERS IN THE AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

IT'S A REALLY DRIVER.

AN INCREDIBLE SECTOR FOR OUR STATE AND THE GROWTH WE HAVE HAD -- IN JUST MY EXPERIENCE WITH HYUNDAI HERE LOCALLY IN MONTGOMERY, HYUNDAI HAS INVESTED OVER $5 BILLION IN THE CITY OF MONTGOMERY JUST IN THE EXPANSIONS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

THEY HAVE HAD 18 EXPANSIONS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS OF OPERATIONS.

THEY EMPLOY WELL OVER 4,000 FOLKS.

THE IMPACT TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE STATE IS TREMENDOUS FROM THE AUTO INDUSTRY.

WE HAVE HAD GREAT SUCCESS AND HAVING THIS OUTSIDE FORCE IS REALLY CONCERNING.

MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI HAVE NEVER HAD LAYOFFS.

SINCE THE BIG THREES CONTRACTS WERE SIGNED LAST FALL, OVER 18,000 TEMPORARY AND PERMANENT LAYOFFS HAVE BEEN HAD BY THOSE BIG THREE.

>> IS THAT THE THRUST OF THE ARGUMENT?

IF UNIONIZATION HAPPENS FEWER JOBS WILL BE AVAILABLE NOW AND IN THE FUTURE?

I'M TRYING TO GET TO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

>> OBVIOUSLY, NOT ONLY COULD THERE BE LAYOFFS, THERE COULD BE INVESTMENTS MADE IN OTHER PLANTS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY OR IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

ALREADY FORD, GENERAL MOTORS HAVE SAID THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE GOING OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> IS THAT THE LABOR IS MORE EXPENSIVE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THE ABILITY TO INNOVATE AND THE ABILITY TO BE ABLE TO QUICKLY CHANGE GEARS IF THEY NEED TO.

OUR AUTOMAKERS HAVE ENJOYED INCREDIBLE FLEXIBILITY AND ABLE TO MEET THE DEMANDS OF THE CUSTOMERS.

SO, BY HAVING A UNION, IT WILL SLOW THAT DOWN.

THOSE TEAM MEMBERS WHO HAVE ENJOYED DIRECT COMMUNICATION WITH THE COMPANY WILL NO LONGER HAVE THAT DIRECT COMMUNICATION.

THEIR UNION DOLLARS WILL BE LEAVING OUR STATE.

SO, THOSE ARE PAYROLL DOLLARS THAT WE WOULD ENJOY CIRCULATING IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA THAT WILL BE LEAVING THE STATE TO GO TO OTHER UNION EFFORTS, A LOT OF WHICH THE EFFORTS THAT THE UNIONS SUPPORT ARE NOT NECESSARILY EFFORTS THAT CITIZENS OF THE STATE OF ALABAMA SUPPORT.

THAT'S REALLY A CRITICAL POINT.

>> I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT.

I THINK I UNDERSTAND SORT OF THE THREAT AND THE RISKS AND THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT.

OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, SOME OF THESE WORKERS AT HYUNDAI, AT MERCEDES, HAVE -- SEEM TO HAVE LEGITIMATE COMPLAINTS ABOUT WORK CONDITIONS, TEMPORARY WORKERS AND HOURS, THINGS LIKE THAT, MAYBE PAY.

SO, I MEAN HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

IS THIS COMING FROM A LEGIT COMPLAINT THAT A UNION MIGHT HELP THEM HAVE BETTER CONDITIONS AND BETTER PAY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> GOVERNOR IVEY HAS BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH BOTH LEADERS OF MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI AND HAVE SAID, IF THERE ARE ISSUES YOU NEED TO FIX THIS.

SHE'S BEEN VERY BOLD IN HER VOICE, USING HER VOICE TO ENCOURAGE MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO, TO BE SURE THIS ISN'T NECESSARY.

SO, ABSOLUTELY.

THOSE AUTOMAKERS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY, BUT IT IS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE -- AGAIN, I'VE GOT MUCH MORE FAMILIARITY WITH HYUNDAI BECAUSE OF MY YEARS OF EXPERIENCE THERE, BUT THE TREMENDOUS, YOU KNOW, BENEFITS AND WAGES ARE WELL ABOVE THE AREA'S AND QUITE FRANKLY THE STATE'S AVERAGE WAGE, WAY ABOVE.

THEY HAVE INCREDIBLE BENEFITS.

YOU KNOW, IT'S CAREER-BUILDING OPPORTUNITIES THERE.

OVER 2500 PEOPLE HAVE THEIR APPLICATION IN TO HYUNDAI RIGHT NOW.

>> SO PEOPLE ARE COMING.

>> PEOPLE ARE WANTING JOBS THERE.

>> THAT SAYS SOMETHING.

>> COULD IT BE BETTER?

COULD THEY DO THINGS?

YES.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE A CALL FOR THEM TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THE EMPLOYEES' NEEDS AND, YOU KNOW, LISTEN TO THEM.

I THINK ABSOLUTELY THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN DO THAT ON A ONE-TO-ONE BASIS WITHOUT A THIRD PARTY INTERFERING.

I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING.

I THINK TWO YEARS AGO, AMAZON FOUGHT OFF THE UNIONIZATION AT THEIR FACILITY, BUT AMAZON WAS REALLY PROACTIVE.

THEY WERE AHEAD OF THE GAME, REALLY COMMUNICATING WITH THE WORKERS.

I KIND OF WONDER HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT.

WE WILL FOLLOW IT VERY CLOSELY.

>> I THINK BOTH MERCEDES AND HYUNDAI AND OTHER -- BELIEVE ME, IT'S GOTTEN ATTENTION OF ALL MANUFACTURERS ACROSS ALL STATES AND REALLY ANY BUSINESS.

I MEAN IT REALLY IS A WAKEUP CALL TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TO LISTEN TO YOUR EMPLOYEES AND NOW DAYS WITH THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SO LOW, COMPANIES ARE DOING THAT BECAUSE TO KEEP GOOD, SKILLED WORKERS, YOU HAVE TO BE A PLACE OF BUSINESS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO COME AND WORK AT.

>> WE ONLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME BUT YOU TOUCHED ON SOMETHING, WORKFORCE.

LOW UNEMPLOYMENT, ALSO LOW LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE.

WE HAVE SEVERAL BILLS IN THE STATE HOUSE TRYING TO REMOVE BARRIERS TO THE WORKFORCE, TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE OFF THE SIDELINES INTO JOBS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR TAKE ON THIS BECAUSE YOUR JOB IS TO RECRUIT COMPANIES TO HAVE HIGH-LEVEL NEGOTIATIONS, RECRUITMENT.

HOW DOES THIS COME UP?

COMMERCE IS RECRUITING A COMPANY.

BIG PROJECT SOMEWHERE THE WORKS RIGHT NOW.

HOW DOES WORKFORCE COME UP?

I'M SURE IT IS PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

HOW DO WE HAVE FOLKS TO MAN THE PLANT, TO ACTUALLY DO THESE THINGS?

WHAT ARE THE QUESTIONS THEY ASK AND WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF WORKFORCE?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE KINDS OF JOBS WE ARE TARGETING NOW ARE HIGHER WAGES AND THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE SELECTIVE OF THE TYPES OF COMPANIES WE WANT TO BRING INTO THE STATE AND THE COMMUNITY.

WE ARE LOOKING AT COMPANIES THAT CAN REALLY ADD VALUE TO HIGH PAY, HIGH WAGES, GREAT COMPANIES TO WORK FOR, BUT OBVIOUSLY, THE ABILITY TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN SKILLED LABOR IS A PROBLEM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

IT REALLY IS GOING TO BE ADDRESSED IN OUR STRATEGIC PLAN IN A WAY THAT WE HAVE NEVER ADDRESSED IT BEFORE, WHICH IS QUALITY OF PLACE.

A COMPANY COMES TO A COMMUNITY WHILE THE STATE IS IMPORTANT AND THE FACT THAT THE STATE OF ALABAMA IS A WELCOMING STATE TO BUSINESS, THAT'S CRITICAL BUT THEY WILL COME AND THEY LOCATE IN A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

SO, THE ABILITY OF THE COMMUNITY TO CREATE A QUALITY OF PLACE WHERE THEY CAN RETAIN THEIR TALENT AND THEY CAN RECRUIT NEW TALENT IS CRITICAL.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED BY A STATE-WIDE STRATEGIC PLAN BEFORE BUT WILL BE A BIG FOCUS ON THIS IS THE ABILITY OF COMMUNITIES TO BE GREAT PLACES TO LIVE.

A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ALREADY GET THAT AND ARE INVESTING IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

SO, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO BE A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO STAY AND THEY WANT TO LIVE.

AND THEN SECOND OF ALL, HAVING THE ABILITY TO TRAIN THESE PEOPLE, HAVING QUALITY, YOU KNOW, FROM PRE-K ALL THE WAY THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL AND THEN 12, TWO, YEAR AND FOUR YEAR.

SO HAVING THAT COMPLETE CYCLE IS CRITICAL, AND THEN AIDT.

THAT IS PROBABLY OUR NUMBER ONE INCENTIVE.

>> I'VE HEARD IT DESCRIBED AS THE SECRET SAUCE.

>> IT IS.

ED CASTILLE ANND HIS TEAM AT AIDT HAS BEEN SUCH AN HONOR TO WORK WITH HIM AND HIS TEAM THROUGH MANY YEARS.

>> BECAUSE THEY WORK DIRECTORIALLY WITH COMPANIES TO GET THEIR WORKFORCE TRAINED SPECIFICALLY TO THE TASK.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

THEY WILL COME IN -- OF COURSE THERE ARE LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS THAT HAVE TO BE IN PLACE BECAUSE THESE COMPANIES HOPEFULLY WILL BE HERE THROUGH GENERATIONS BUT TO IMMEDIATELY GET A COMPANY UP AND RUNNING, ED AND HIS TEAM ARE THE BEST IN THE COUNTRY.

THEY TRULY, TRULY ARE.

THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED I HAD DINNER RECENTLY WITH THE SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FROM ARKANSAS.

HE HAD A TEAM HERE TO MEET WITH ED AND HIS TEAM TO UNDERSTAND.

SO, WE TRULY ARE A SHOW PLACE FOR THE COUNTRY ON HOW TO DO THIS.

>> DOING SOMETHING RIGHT IF FOLKS ARE WANTING TO COME TO YOU.

I HATE TO SAY WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING.

I HAVE ENJOYED THE CONVERSATION.

A LOT TO FOLLOW GOING FORWARD SO I MAY HAVE YOU BACK.

>> YES.

ABSOLUTELY.

BACK TO THE UNION QUESTION AGAIN.

BCA AND OUR PARTNERS HAVE A WEBSITE.

CALLED ALABAMA STRONG.

AND THAT WOULD BE A GREAT PLACE TO GO AND LEARN MORE.

>> SO IT IS AT ALABAMASTRONG.COM.

>> YEAH.

>> WE WILL SHARE THAT WITH OUR VIEWERS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" ONLINE ANYTIME AT ALABAMA POLITIC TELEVISION'S WEBSITE APTV.ORG.

CLICK ON THE ONLINE VIDEO TAB ON THE MAIN PAGE.

YOU CAN ALSO CONNECT WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" AND LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" FACEBOOK PAGE.

>> THE CHEAHA MOUNTAIN CALLED MOUNT CHEAHAIS THE HIGHEST POINT IN ALABAMA AT 2470 ABOVE SEA LEVEL IT IS LOCATED IN THE STATE PARK SURROUNDED BY THE TALLADEGA NATIONAL FOREST IN THE FOOTHILLS OF THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS.

THIS DRAMATIC LANDSCAPE GETS ITS NAME FROM THE CREEK INDIAN NAME FOR THE MOUNTAIN, CHEAHA MEANING HIGH PLACE.

>> YOU ARE WATCHING ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

>> WELCOME BACK TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

JOINING ME NEXT IS DANNE HOWARD OF THE ALABAMA HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION.

DANNE, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

>> THIS WEEK THERE WAS A JOINT MEETING OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE HEALTH COMMITTEES WITH GUESTS FROM ARKANSAS, NORTH CAROLINA, TALKING ABOUT THOSE STATES' EXPERIENCES IN RECENT MEDICAID EXPANSION OR AKIN TO THAT.

I KNOW YOU WERE A PART OF THIS MEETING AND CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS.

HOW DID IT GO?

WHAT WAS THE MESSAGES THAT LAWMAKERS HEARD FROM THEIR COLLEAGUES AND OTHERS FROM ARKANSAS AND NORTH CAROLINA?

>> YES.

IT WENT VERY WELL IN OUR OPINION.

IT WAS VERY HELPFUL FOR LEGISLATORS IN ALABAMA TO HEAR FROM LAWMAKERS IN BOTH OF THOSE STATES WHO HAD SIMILAR STRUGGLES AND CONCERNS MOVING INTO WHAT THEY HAVE NOW DONE TO CLOSE THEIR COVERAGE GAP THROUGH EXPANSION RESOURCES.

ARKANSAS, OF COURSE, WAS IN 2014, SO THEY HAD A DECADE OF EXPERIENCE TO SHARE.

NORTH CAROLINA JUST DID THEIRS IN DECEMBER.

SO, THEY DON'T HAVE AS MUCH EXPERIENCE TO SHARE.

I THINK MY BIGGEST TAKE AWAY FROM NORTH CAROLINA, EVEN AN EARLY OR RECENT ADOPTER AND RECENTLY CLOSED THEIR COVERAGE GAP WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THE SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA AS I SAID.

HE LIVES IN A RURAL, CONSERVATIVE DISTRICT.

NO ONE IN HIS DISTRICT OR STATE HAS SAID YOU MESSED UP.

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT, BUT INSTEAD HE'S HAD HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE REACH OUT TO HIM TO THANK HIM FOR MAKING THEIR LOVED ONES TO HAVE ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE.

>> MAYBE THE POLITICAL THREAT IS MAYBE NOT AS PRONOUNCED AS SOME MIGHT THINK.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HEAR THAT.

I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN MANY YEARS OF DEBATE THAT THE ALABAMA HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION HAS BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF FINDING A WAY TO DO THIS WHEN IT BECAME AVAILABLE.

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF POLITICAL GUT WRENCHING MOMENTS OF LEGISLATORS, NOT ONLY ON THE PHILOSOPHICAL SIDE OF IT, BUT ALSO ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE OF IT.

I THINK IT WAS VERY HELPFUL FOR THEM TO HEAR.

IT WASN'T EASY AND THEY HAD TO WORK THROUGH A LOT OF THINGS, BUT THEY DID IT AND THEY ARE REAPING THE BENEFITS OF IT NOW.

>> TALK ABOUT THE COVERAGE GAP.

WE HEAR THAT TERM A LOT.

I KNOW THERE ARE SOMETIMES DIFFERENT FIGURES OF HOW MANY ALABAMIANS -- DESCRIBE WHAT THAT GAP IS AND WHO FALLS INTO IT.

>> RIGHT.

THE COVERAGE GAP ARE ABLE-BODIED, NON-DISABLED INDIVIDUALS IN ALABAMA WHO ARE BETWEEN THE AGES OF 19-64.

IF YOU ARE IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA, IF YOU ARE 19-64, YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICAID, REGARDLESS OF YOUR INCOME.

SO, IF YOU MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY, OR NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO QUALIFY FOR SUBSIDIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO HELP YOU PURCHASE A PLAN ON MARKETPLACE THAT'S BEEN AVAILABLE BECAUSE OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RESOURCES.

YOU DON'T QUALIFY FOR MEDICAID, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU MAKE AND YOU DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO QUALIFY FOR SUBSIDIES.

THE COVERAGE GAP FOR THOSE -- AND IF YOU ARE WORKING YOU MAY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY TO BE ABLE TO LOOK FOR ANY ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS BECAUSE THEY ARE AVAILABLE BUT ONLY FOR THE REALLY LOW INCOME.

THE COVERAGE GAP ARE THOSE THAT DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO TURN TO GET INSURANCE.

>> THERE ARE MANY JOBS THAT DON'T OFFER EMPLOYER SPONSORED INSURANCE TO EVERYONE.

FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WORK PART TIME.

YOU MAY HAVE A PART-TIME JOB AND MANY DO TRYING TO GO TO SCHOOL, FINISH COLLEGE OR BECAUSE YOU HAVE OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES.

YOU MAY CARE FOR YOUR PARENTS AND HAVE OTHER THINGS AND MAY HAVE A PART-TIME JOB THAT DOESN'T OFFER HEALTH CARE INSURANCE AND NOT EVERY COMPANY WITH FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT OFFERS EMPLOYER INSURANCE.

>> INTERESTING.

ARKANSAS' EXAMPLE IS INTERESTING.

THEY WENT THIS PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP ROUTE.

I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS, DEVELOPING THIS ALL-HEALTH PLAN THAT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO ARKANSAS MODEL.

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN TALKS GOING ON WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

TAKE ME TO THE ROOM.

WHAT ARE YOU ALL TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF CAN YOU MAKE THIS PRIVATE-PUBLIC PARTNERSHIP WORK.

I GUESS IT WOULD TAKE MEDICAID DOLLARS TO LEVERAGE IT.

BUT WOULDN'T NECESSITATE A MEDICAID CARD.

>> IT IS VERY MUCH LIKE ARKANSAS WITH A FEW OTHER COMPONENTS.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST -- I GUESS TASKS -- IN TRYING TO LOOK AT WHAT WOULD WORK FOR ALABAMA, THAT IS WHAT OUR GOAL WAS, WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE STATE OF ALABAMA BECAUSE WHAT OTHER STATES DID MAY NOT FIT FOR THE NEEDS OF OUR STATE.

SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE WORKED REALLY HARD AND LONG TO PULL TOGETHER A PLAN THAT IS SPECIFIC FOR ALABAMA.

NO OTHER STATE HAS ADOPTED A SIMILAR PLAN THAT WE THINK WE CAN MAKE HAPPEN HERE IN ALABAMA AND AT CMS, THE OVERSIGHT IN WASHINGTON WOULD APPROVE AND IT VERY MUCH MIMICS AND FOLLOWS THE PLAN OF ARKANSAS IN A PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP FOR PART OF IT AND TRADITIONAL MEDICAID FOR PART OF IT AND USING EMPLOYER-SPONSORED INSURANCE PREMIUM AS PART OF IT.

WITH THAT THERE IS 250, 300,000 ALABAMIANS THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR A PROGRAM SUCH AS THIS.

IN DOING IT THE WAY WE HAVE DESIGNED IT OR ARE PROPOSING IT BE DESIGNED, ONLY 100,000 WOULD GO ON TRADITIONAL MEDICAID, AND THOSE ARE INCOME LEVELS AT POVERTY LEVEL AND BELOW.

WE ARE REDUCING THE COST BY PUTTING IN THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP SO WE DON'T HAVE 300,000 ALL OF A SUDDEN ON THE ALABAMA MEDICAID ROLLS.

>> OKAY.

IT SEEMS, TO ME, THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE PALATABLE TO A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN WHO'S ALWAYS HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THE WORD MEDICAID EXPANSION.

ARE YOU GETTING FEEDBACK ON THAT?

>> I THINK SO.

YES.

THIS IS IF YOU ARE OVER 100% OF THE POVERTY LEVEL, YOU HAVE SOME FORM OF INCOME COMING IN.

SO YOU ARE ALREADY WORKING.

MORE THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE IN ALABAMA ARE WORKING, BUT, AGAIN THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY, THEY ARE NOT MAKING ENOUGH IN THEIR JOB TO AFFORD EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO EARN AND ALSO HAVE HEALTHCARE INSURANCE.

A LOT OF THOSE, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, HAVE A SUBSIDY THAT ALLOWS THEM TO GO TO MARKETPLACE AND PURCHASE INSURANCE.

BUT WE SEE THIS AS A KEEP WORKING.

KEEP YOUR JOB.

STAY IN YOUR JOB.

IT IS ALSO THE ABILITY TO HAVE A STRONGER HEALTHIER WORKFORCE.

GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO MENTION THAT.

THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH TALK ABOUT WORKFORCE THIS SESSION, IN TERMS OF GETTING FOLKS OFF THE SIDELINES AND IN THE WORKFORCE.

ABOUT REMOVING BARRIERS TO THE WORKFORCE.

I HAVE BROUGHT THIS UP MULTIPLE TIMES TO THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND SPEAKER AND OTHERS SAYING THERE'S NOT A HEALTHCARE COMPONENT TO THIS.

THERE IS PROBABLY A GOOD REASON WHY BUT PEOPLE LIST ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE AS A BARRIER FOR ENTERING THE WORKFORCE.

LIKE IF THEY GET A JOB DO THEY LOSE SOME KIND OF BENEFITS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I MEAN JUST BEING HEALTHY IN GENERAL, BEING ABLE TO GO TO THE DOCTOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IS THIS A WORKFORCE ISSUE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, GOVERNOR'S WORKFORCE TASK FORCE JUST DID A SURVEY OF INDIVIDUALS NOT CURRENTLY IN THE WORKFORCE TO FIND OUT WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST BARRIERS THAT YOU HAVE.

THE TWO -- THE TOP TWO, THE FIRST WAS TRANSPORTATION AND THE SECOND WAS HEALTH.

THE SECOND LARGEST BARRIER FOR ALABAMIANS CURRENTLY NOT PARTICIPATING AND NOT WORKING IS THEIR HEALTH.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT MAY HAVE UNCONTROLLED DIABETES.

THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO A PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE INSURANCE, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR THE INSULIN.

THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY FOR THE TYPE OF GROCERIES THAT WOULD HELP THEM TO EAT BETTER TO HELP CONTROL THEIR DIABETES.

IT IS A VICIOUS CIRCLE.

IF YOU HAVE UNCONTROLLED DIABETES, AS ONE EXAMPLE OF A HEALTH CONDITION, YOU MAY BE SICK A LOT AND NOT BE ABLE TO BE AT WORK.

SO YOU CAN'T HOLD DOWN A JOB.

IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO ENCOURAGE ACCESS TO CARE BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE INSURANCE AND WE CAN GET THOSE INDIVIDUALS HEALTHY AND GO GET A JOB AND HOLD A JOB.

IT IS DEFINITELY A WORKFORCE BILL.

>> WELL, ALL OF THIS SOUNDS GREAT.

I HEAR THIS FROM REPUBLICANS ALL THE TIME THAT SAY LOOK, WE'D LOVE TO DO IT BUT THINGS COST MONEY.

THERE ARE SOME REAL CONCERNS.

I'VE HEARD IT FROM THE GOVERNOR AND PEOPLE IN THIS BUILDING.

SAYING LIKE BUT THE FEDERAL MONEY WILL RUN OUT.

WE HAVE SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT CAN WE ACTUALLY AFFORD THIS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO BANKRUPT THE STATE TEN YEARS FROM NOW.

TALK ABOUT THE COSTS.

HOW THAT LINES UP WITH FEDERAL AND STATE MONEY AND LONG TERM WHETHER THE STATE CAN AFFORD THIS.

>> THERE'S A LOT IN THAT.

AT A HIGH LEVEL.

IN POST COVID, ONE OF THE BILLS THAT CONGRESS PASSED THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN ACT INCLUDED ADDITIONAL INCENTIVE FOR STATES WHO HAVE NOT CLOSED THEIR COVERAGE GAP.

IN THAT YOU GET AN ADDITIONAL MATCH FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

CURRENTLY, BEFORE THAT, IT WAS 90% FEDERAL DOLLARS AND 10% STATE DOLLARS FOR THE POPULATION YOU WOULD PROVIDE COVERAGE TO.

LET ME STOP THERE AND ADD ONE THING, THOSE ARE NOT FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF NOWHERE.

ALABAMIANS ARE ALREADY PAYING TAXES TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT SUPPORT THEY ARE PROGRAM, BUT OUR TAX MONEY IS GOING TO OTHER STATES WHO HAVE CLOSED THEIR COVERAGE GAPS.

IN THE ARPA BILL THAT PASSED IN CONGRESS AN ADDITIONAL 5% MATCH WAS ADDED AS AN INCENTIVE FOR STATES LIKE ALABAMA TO USE THOSE RESOURCES, FINANCIALLY HELP THEM TO BE ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND FOR AN ADDITIONAL TWO YEARS.

WITH THAT ADDITIONAL MONEY, INCLUDING THE DESIGN AT THE PLAN THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER WITH THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS IN THE PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP, WE WILL HAVE MORE MONEY THAN WE NEED FOR THE STATE TO IMPLEMENT THE PROGRAM FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

IF WE BANK THE ADDITIONAL MONEY WE WILL HAVE AND ALLOW IT TO BE INVESTED, VERY MUCH LIKE THE ALABAMA TRUST FUND DOES NOW, THEN OUR PROJECTIONS AND VERIFIED, THE PROJECTIONS IS RUN DR. GERABI, WHO THE STATE USES FOR ALL OF THEIR PROJECTS SHOW THAT WE WILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO, WITH NO ADDITIONAL STATE DOLLARS, TO PAY FOR THIS FOR MAYBE 15 YEARS.

IT'S HARD TO PREDICT ANYTHING 15 YEARS OUT.

NOBODY KNOWS WHAT 15 YEARS FROM NOW LOOKS LIKE, BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS A WAIVER -- SO THIS IS A DEMONSTRATION WAIVER WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THOSE ARE ONLY FOR FIVE YEARS.

DURING THAT TIME, AT THE END OF FIVE YEARS THEY DON'T JUST AUTOMATICALLY RENEW.

WE HAVE -- THE STATE HAS TO GO BACK TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND RENEGOTIATE.

IF IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOT DOING AS WELL AS WE THOUGHT WE WOULD FINANCIALLY WE HAVE ENOUGH TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS.

IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL THAT CHANGES THE 90-10 PARTNERSHIPS OF THE MATCH WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO WITHDRAWAL.

THERE ARE A LOT OF AVENUES TO KEEP IT IN CHECK NOT KNOWING WHAT 15 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD LOOKS LIKE.

BUT IN ADDITION TO, YOU HAVE MORE PEOPLE WORKING, YOU HAVE MORE INCOME TAXES IN THE STATE BUDGETS, YOU HAVE MORE SPENDING PEOPLE AS PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO GO OUT AND PURCHASE THINGS IN INCOME TAX.

SO OUR INCOME AND BUDGETS GROW.

OTHER STATES HAVE SEEN THAT AS WELL, SIGNIFICANTLY AND THAT'S WHAT WE COMMISSIONED DR. GERARDI TO DO HIS PROJECTIONS ON.

THE ECONOMICS OF THIS, THERE IS NOT ONE PIECE OF OUR SOCIAL OR ECONOMIC LIFE IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA THIS DOESN'T POSITIVELY IMPACT.

>> INTERESTING.

WELL, TALK ABOUT RURAL HOSPITALS.

I KNOW EVER SINCE THIS CONVERSATION BEGAN ABOUT MEDICAID EXPANSION, IT HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT THIS COULD BE A SAVING GRACE FOR RURAL HOSPITALS.

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CLOSURES.

I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NUMBER RIGHT NOW BUT WHAT IS THE STATE OF RURAL HOSPITALS?

I KNOW THERE'S A BILL TO TRY TO GIVE THEM SUPPORT FINANCIALLY, SOMEWHERE IN THE PROCESS.

TALK ABOUT RURAL HOSPITALS AND WHERE WE ARE.

>> IT IS AS FRAGILE AS EVER.

WE GET THAT QUESTION ASKED A LOT.

WE ARE FORTUNATE WE HAVE NOT HAD A HOSPITAL CLOSURE SINCE RIGHT AFTER THE PANDEMIC BEGAN, IN PICKENS COUNTY.

THAT HOSPITAL CLOSED BUT WE ARE REALLY FRAGILE WITH A LOT OF THEM.

THERE ARE A LOT WE DON'T KNOW -- THERE'S NOT A LIST ANYWHERE BUT THERE ARE ENOUGH PEOPLE, ENOUGH HOSPITALS THAT ARE ON THAT LINE THAT I DO NOT SEE HOW WE WILL NOT HAVE ADDITIONAL CLOSURES SOMETIME IN THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS IF ALL THINGS STAY THE SAME.

CLOSING THE COVERAGE GAP IS ONE HUGE THING.

IT'S ONE THING THE STATE OF ALABAMA CAN DO TO ADD SOME SECURITY BACK TO THE RURAL HOSPITALS IN PARTICULAR.

THIS IS NOT A RURAL AND URBAN ISSUE ALONE.

IF THE RURAL HOSPITALS ARE NOT ABLE TO STAY FINANCIALLY VIABLE AND PROVIDE THE SERVICES THEY CAN, THE URBAN HOSPITALS IN MONTGOMERY, BIRMINGHAM, HUNTSVILLE, THEY CAN'T ABSORB THE VOLUME OF PATIENTS.

SO THAT'S A COMPOUNDING AFFECT THAT THEN EVENTUALLY STARTS ERODING OUR ENTIRE HEALTHCARE DELIVERY SYSTEM.

THE RURAL HOSPITALS ARE HANGING ON BY A THREAD THROUGH CUTS OF SERVICES, THROUGH LAYOFFS, THROUGH OTHER THINGS.

THEY ARE ABLE TO STAY OPEN RIGHT NOW AND WE WANT TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT HOSPITAL CLOSES IT IS NOT JUST THE LOSS OF HEALTHCARE.

IT IS THE LOSS OF JOBS, LOCAL BUSINESSES ARE NOT SUPPORTING THEM.

WE SUPPORT THE LOCAL BUSINESSES IN EVERY RURAL COMMUNITY.

IT'S A HUGE BLOW TO ANY RURAL COMMUNITY TO LOSE A HOSPITAL.

>> CERTAINLY AN ISSUE TO WATCH GOING FORWARD.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON THE SHOW TO EXPLAIN THIS IN DEPTH.

THAT'S WHY WE LIKE "CAPITOL JOURNAL," IT ALLOWS TIME FOR THESE CONVERSATIONS.

DANNE HOWARD OF THE ALABAMA HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, TODD.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" ONLINE AT VIDEO.APTV.ORG.

"CAPITOL JOURNAL" EPISODES ARE ALSO AVAILABLE ON APTV'S FREE MOBILE APP.

YOU CAN ALSO CONNECT WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" AND LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL'S" FACEBOOK PAGE, AND YOU CAN LISTEN TO PAST EPISODES OF "CAPITOL JOURNAL" WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING OR ON THE GO WITH "CAPITOL JOURNAL" PODCASTS.

>> THE DESOTO CAVERNS IS BEST KNOWN FOR ITS GREAT ONYX CATHEDRAL, 120 FEET HIGH AREA LARGER THAN A FOOTBALL FIELD.

THE LIMESTONE CAVE, 3 MILLION YEARS OLD HAS A LONG, FASCINATING HISTORY.

IT'S HOME TO A 2000 YEAR OLD NATIVE AMERICAN BURIAL SITE AND THE SOURCE OF SALTPETER FOR GUN POWDER DURING THE CIVIL WAR AND OPERATED AS A SPEAKEASY DURING PROHIBITION.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE WILL BE BACK ON MONDAY WITH COVERAGE OF THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FOR OUR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.