SUE: I AM SUE O'’CONNELL.

TONIGHT AFTER A FLOOD OF CRITICISM POURED IN AFTER HER TEAMS NCAA CHAMP SHIP WIN, WE WILL DIG BEHIND WHAT IS BEHIND THE NEGATIVITY, LSU STAR ANGEL REESE HAS BEEN GETTING FOR GESTURES ON THE COURT.

A MICROCHIP THAT LED TO CONTROL TECHNOLOGY WITH YOUR MIND.

IT MAY SOUND LIKE THE PLOTS OF A SCI-FI MOVIE BUT MAJOR TECH LEADERS ARE WORKING TO MAKE IT A REALITY.

SHOULD THEY?

TRASH TALK IS NOT EXACTLY NEW OR AN UNCOMMON PHENOMENON IN THE WORLD OF COMPETITIVE SPORTS.

YOU CAN CATCH IT IN EVERY NBA, NHL AND NFL GAME ON TV.

WHY IS NCAA CHAMPION ANGEL REESE GETTING ALL SORTS OF BACKLASH FOR IT?

HERE ARE THE MOMENTS IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME, LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY BEATS IOWA,102- 85 BROADCAST ON ESPN.

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>> ANGEL REESE KNOWS THE RING IS COMING.

SUE: FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW, ANGEL REESE'’S NEXT GESTURE IS THE CLASSIC WWE GESTURE, JOHN SENA IS FAMOUS FOR.

CAITLIN CLARK HAS BEEN DOING GET ANOTHER GAMES THREAT THE TOURNAMENT.

BUT CLARK'’S GESTURES HAVE GOTTEN A DIFFERENT RESPONSE THAN REESE'’S, WHICH CRITICS, TALKING HEADS, ANALYSTS, CALLED HER OUT AFTER THE GAME SAYING, SHE WAS CLASSLESS, TASTELESS, AND AN IDIOT.

THE FIRST LADY EVEN FLOATED THE IDEA OF INVITING BOTH TEAMS TO THE WHITE HOUSE, INSTEAD OF TO THE CUSTOMARY WINNERS ONLY VISITORS.

THE SPOKESPERSON WALK TO THAT BACK AFTER A OF CRITICISM INCLUDING FROM, ANGEL REESE WHO NOW SAYS SHE HAS NO PLANS TO GO.

>> WHEN OTHER PEOPLE DO IT, Y'’ALL DON'’T SAY NOTHING.

THIS WAS FOR THE GIRLS THAT LOOK LIKE ME, AND THEY'’RE GOING TO SPEAK UP FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

THAT IS WHAT I DID IT FOR.

IT WAS BIGGER THAN ME TONIGHT.

A I'’-- SUE: I'’M JOINED BY DR. TINA OPIE, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT BABSON COLLEGE AND, SHIRA SPRINGER.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

LET'’S START WITH YOU.

I HAVE A START -- A LOT TO SAY ABOUT THIS, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO ALL OF THIS?

WHAT'’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PLAYERS?

TINA: I COULD RELATE TO THIS.

THIS BEHAVIOR WHETHER IT BE THAT, WHETHER IT BE EXPRESSING ANGER IN THE WORKPLACE, WHEN PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN DO THAT IT HAS DIFFERENT RESPONSES FROM PEOPLE IN THE WORKPLACE ARE ON THE COURT OR IN SOCIETY AT LARGE.

OFTEN TIMES LET'’S CALL IT WHITE WOMEN.

WHITE WOMEN AND BLACK WOMEN CAN EXPRESS THE SAME THING AND OH MY GOODNESS PEOPLE WHO I THINK WERE NOT EVEN NECESSARILY COMMENTING ON SPORTS BEFORE, CLEARLY WERE NOT EVEN AWARE OF THE NCAA WOMEN'’S BASKETBALL GAME.

THEY HAD TO DIP THEIR TOE IN THIS.

THEY HAD TO SAY SOMETHING.

THEY WERE UNINFORMED.

THEY WERE BEING RACIST AND SEXIST.

SUE: I HAVE TO TELL YOU ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE I POSTED, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE?

AFTER IT WAS POINTED OUT TO SOME PEOPLE THEY WERE TWISTING THEMSELVES IN KNOT, SAYING ONE DID IT AFTER THE GAME, ONE DID IT AFTER SHE WON.

THAT'’S JUST CLASSLESS, NOAH SHOULD BE DOING IT, AND I AM LIKE -- NO ONE SHOULD BE DOING IT, AND I'’M LIKE, LARRY BIRD DROVE ME CRAZY.

BESIDES THE OBVIOUS RACISM THE THING THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY IS PEOPLE ONLY SEEM TO CARE ABOUT WOMEN SPORTS WHEN WE'’RE NOT ACTING IN THE WAY THAT THE MALE ATHLETES ACT.

TO TINA'’S POINT, ALL SORTS OF COLLEGE ATHLETES GET IN ALL SORTS OF LEGAL TROUBLE.

NO ONE COMETS ON IT.

THESE TWO WOMEN HAVE A COMPETITIVE RELATIONSHIP AND SUDDENLY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.

SHIRA: NOT ONLY THAT, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IT AND IF TWO MALE PLAYERS HAD DONE THIS, THIS WOULD NOT BE THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION DAYS AFTER IT HAPPENED.

SO, THAT -- YOU'’RE GETTING AT THE FRUSTRATION WITH THE CONVERSATION WHICH IS, THIS WAS A RECORD-SETTING, TOURNAMENT IN TERMS OF RATINGS, ATTENDANCE, I THINK IT WAS 9.9 VIEWERS FOR THE WOMEN'’S FINAL -- 9.9 MILLION VIEWERS FOR THE WOMEN'’S FINAL.

THAT'’S THE STUFF THAT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT.

THAT'’S THE PROGRESS WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT WITH WOMEN'’S SPORTS.

INSTEAD, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WOMEN ATHLETES BEHAVING AS ALL ATHLETES DO, TALKING TRASH, GETTING IN EACH OTHER'’S FACES.

THERE COMPETITIVE.

THEY SHOULD BE COMPETITIVE AND THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO SHOW IT HOWEVER THEY WANT.

BUT SOMEHOW THAT ALWAYS DERAILS THE CONVERSATION.

LIKE HE SAID, IF THEY ARE NOT BEHAVING THE WAY WE EXPECT THEM TO TO BEHAVE OR PERHAPS BETTER SAID, HOW CULTURE HAS TRADITIONALLY EXPECTED THEM TO CHANGE.

THAT CULTURE AND WOMEN'’S SPORTS IN GENERAL IS CHANGING.

OUR PERCEPTIONS AND EXPECTATIONS HAVE TO CHANGE ALONG WITH IT.

SUE: THE WANT TO JUMP IN, TINA?

SHIRA: --TINA: WHEN YOU SAID HOW WE EXPECT THEM -- IT IS FUNNY WHEN I PLAYED SPORTS, THIS IS HOW WE BEHAVED.

I WAS TALKING TO MY CO-AUTHOR AND WHAT WE WERE SAYING WAS THE BEHAVIOR, IF YOU HEARD CAITLIN CLARK, SHE SAID, ANGEL IS GETTING BACKLASH THAT SHE SHOULD NOT BE GETTING.

THIS FLIES DIRECTLY IN THE ENTIRE STEREOTYPIC -- A OF WOMEN THAT WE ARE CADDY.

YOU'’VE HEARD PEOPLE SAY, SO MANY TIMES THAT WOMEN HAVE TO GET OVER THEMSELVES.

MEN CAN FIGHT ON THE BASKETBALL COURT AND HAVE A DRINK AFTERWARDS.

WOMEN CAN DO THE SAME THING.

WE HAVE GOT TO STOP DEPICTING WOMEN SOMEHOW AS THESE EMOTIONALLY STUNTED PEOPLE WHO, IF YOU BUMP INTO ME ON BUT COURT, OR IF YOU GET IN MY FACE, IN THE HEAT OF THE BATTLE, WE CAN GO THERE JUST LIKE ANYONE CAN.

THAT'’S -- WE ARE EQUIPPED TO DO THAT.

FURTHERMORE, CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN IN A BASKETBALL GAME, SOMEBODY, A MAN, A PERSON WITH TESTICLES AND A PIANIST, O -- AND A PENIS, DRAG SOMETHING OVER SOMEBODY'’S FOREHEAD.

CAN WE TALK ABOUT THAT?

I'’M SORRY.

IS THAT NOT HUMILIATING AND THE GRADING?

PEOPLE LAUGH AT THAT.

WE'’LL DO NOT SAY THAT THAT IS CLASSLESS.

MEANWHILE SOMEBODY DOES THE SAME HAND GESTURE THAT HAS BEEN DONE THROUGHOUT WEEKS AND YEARS AND THAT IS CLASSLESS?

CLASSLESS IS A DOG WHISTLE.

IT'’S SIMILAR TO THE TERM THUG AND GHETTO.

IT'’S LIKE THE N WORD ALMOST.

IF YOU USE THE TERM YET THE CHECK YOURSELF.

SUE: I WANT TO REFERENCE CAITLIN CLARK.

WE HAVE SOME SOUND OF HER.

SHOWING SOME SISTERHOOD AND ALLEGIANCE.

>> I DON'’T THINK ANGEL SHOULD BE CRITICIZED THAT ALL.

NO MATTER WHICH WAY IT GOES, SHE SHOULD NEVER BE CRITICIZED FOR WHAT SHE DID.

I'’M ONE THAT COMPETES AND SHE COMPETED.

EVERYBODY KNEW THERE WOULD BE TRASH TALK IN THE ENTIRE TOURNAMENT.

I'’TS NOT JUST ME AND ANGEL.

SHE SHOULD NOT BE CRITICIZED.

LSU DESERVES IT.

THEY PLAYED SO WELL.

I'’M A BIG FAN OF HERS.

SUE: TO THIS POINT OF HOW WOMEN ARE EXPECTED TO BEHAVE, ALL OF US BUILD THIS IDEA THAT IF WOMEN LEAD, IF WE WERE BOSSES, IF WOMEN WERE PRESIDENT THE WORLD WOULD BE DIFFERENT.

SOMEONE SAID TO ME TODAY, WE HAVE HIGHER EXPECTATIONS FOR WOMEN WHEN IT COMES TO PLAYING.

I EXPECTED -- SHE NEVER WATCH THE GAME BEFORE.

SHE EXPECTED WOMEN WOULD BEHAVE DIFFERENTLY ON THE COURT.

WHAT WOULD YOU ANSWER TO THAT?

SHIRA: IT GOES BACK TO WE HAVE EXPECTATIONS AND THOSE EXPECTATIONS, YOUR FRIEND MAY NOT HAVE BEEN A BASKETBALL FAN BEFORE, THOSE EXPECTATIONS COME FROM A PLACE THAT DOES NOT MATCH UP WITH REALITY.

THE REALITY IS, WOMEN ARE COMPETITIVE.

THEY TRASH TALK, THEY BEHAVE THIS WAY.

WHAT ALSO HAS TO BE NOTED IS THAT BOTH CAITLIN AND ANGEL FOR THE MATURE ONES IN THE SITUATION -- WHERE THE MATURE ONES IN THE SITUATION.

WE SAW CAITLIN CLARK TALKING ABOUT HER RESPECT FOR ANGEL.

THERE WAS A MOMENT WHERE, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER WHERE JOE BARTON -- JILL BIDEN INVITED BOTH TEAMS.

AND NO, ONLY THE CHAMPIONS GO.

LET'’S GO BACK TO ANGEL REESE'’S COMMENTS.

SHE SAID, I AM GOING TO BE WHO I AM.

THAT'’S IMPORTANT TOO.

THAT SHE, IN THAT MOMENT, DID NOT BACK DOWN.

SHE STRAIGHT DUE TO HERSELF AND TO SHE WAS, AND TO THE MESSAGE SHE WANTED DELIVER -- WANTED TO DELIVER ON THE MODEL SHE WANTED TO BE TOO YOUNG WOMEN BASK ABOUT PLAYERS.

NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE THAT IS PROGRESS TOO.

THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME IN WOMEN'’S SPORTS WERE WOMEN FELT THAT THEY HAD TO FIT THE NARRATIVE, WHERE THEY DID HAVE TO COW TO CERTAIN EXPECTATIONS.

THEY DID HAVE TO BE IN A CERTAIN BOX TO BE ACCEPTED.

IT'’S GREAT TO SEE, ON BOTH CAITLIN AND ANGELS PART, SPEAKING THEIR MINDS, SAYING WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN BEING TRUE TO THEMSELVES.

SUE: HELP ME OUT A BIT.

IF I'’M A WHITE PERSON WHO REACTED WITH MY INTERNALIZED AND EXTERNALIZED RACISM AND SAID SOMETHING STUPID AND IT WAS POINTED OUT TO ME THAT CAITLIN DID THE SAME THING, WHAT SHOULD I DO?

SHOULD I APOLOGIZE AND ACCEPT MY MISTAKE OR TRY TO DIG IN AND EXPLAIN WHY LARRY BIRD IS BETTER?

TINA: IT IS FUNNY.

I USED THE TERM DIG IN THE BOOK I WROTE WITH BETH, YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD NOT GET DEFENSIVE.

OWN IT.

SAY YOU ARE SORRY.

THINK ABOUT IT, PAUSE.

IN THIS -- WE ALL HAVE TWITTER FINGERS.

WE SEND SEND TO QUICKLY.

ACKNOWLEDGE THE MISTAKE AND MAY BE TAKE A STEP BACK AND EXPLORE WHY YOU ACTED SO QUICKLY.

WE'’RE ALL SWIMMING IN SO MANY STEREOTYPES.

NONE OF US ARE GOING TO ESCAPE THOSE STEREOTYPES.

BUT, WE HAVE TO LEARN NOT TO ACT ON THEM.

I WANT TO COMMENT ON -- YOUR QUESTION ON THE PERSON WHO EXPECTED WOMEN TO BEHAVE IN A DIFFERENT WAY, THAT IS A TRAP.

TO ME, FEMINISM, I WANT THOSE MOVEMENTS TO FREE OF ALL OF US TO BE ABLE TO ACT HOW WE WANT TO ACT.

THOSE EXPECTATIONS CAN BE A TRAP.

THEY ARE A CAGE.

WHEN YOU SAY THAT SHE EXPECTS WOMEN TO ACT A PARTICULAR WAY, SHE IS SAYING WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE WHITE GLOVES ON WITH DRESSES, HAVE OUR HANDS AND BE PRIM AND PROPER, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

WE SHOULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE HOW WE DO SO.

SUE: I WANT TO SHOW A CURVEBALL BEFORE WE WRAP UP.

IAND SAYING'’VE -- I HAVE BEEN SAYING AS SOON AS MEN COULD BET ON WOMEN SPORTS, IMMEDIATELY WOMEN SPORTS WOULD BE ELEVATED.

IN MASSACHUSETTS THEY CAN.

WILL I BE RIGHT OR WRONG OR WILL NOTHING CHANGE?

SHIRA: YOU ARE GOING TO BE RIGHT.

ANYTHING THAT BRINGS AWARENESS, EXPOSURE AND INTEREST, AND HELPS PEOPLE OR MAKES PEOPLE MOTIVATES PEOPLE TO FOLLOW THE STORY OF A PARTICULAR TEAM, PLAYER, A SPORT, THAT'’S GOOD.

BETTING MAKES YOU WANT TO FOLLOW THE STORY OF DIFFERENT TEAMS AND PLAYERS.

IT WILL HELP RAISE AWARENESS AND EXPOSURE, AND INTEREST.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL SEE THAT IN HIGHER RATINGS AND MORE VALUE PLACED ON WOMEN ATHLETES AND WOMEN SPORTS.

SUE: AS WE WRAP, I KNOW WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GAME, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SPORT, WOMEN OWNING THEMSELVES AND BEING WHO THEY ARE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY WILL THIS MOVE US FORWARD?

TINA: I HOPE SO.

I HOPE IT IS SHOWN THAT WE CAN HAVE DISAGREEMENTS, MAKE DISAGREEMENTS BUT MOVE BEYOND THAT.

AND HAVE HONEST AND AUTHENTIC CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE TO DO THAT.

SUE: I'’M DOING THIS NOW BECAUSE I HAVE TO END.

ALL RIGHT, YOU GUYS.

[LAUGHTER] TALK TO TINA OPIE, SHIRA SPRINGER.

SEE YOU ON THE COURT.

NEXT UP, DOES THE IDEA OF A MICROCHIP IN YOUR BRAIN SOUND EXCITING OR HORRIFYING, OR BOTH?

THE TECHNOLOGY MAY BE A LOT CLOSER THAN YOU THINK, THANKS TO SOME OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN TECH.

IT'’S WORKING ON AN IMPLANT WITH PEOPLE WITH LIMITED PHYSICAL MOBILITY TO OPERATE TECHNOLOGY, THAT IS IN CLINICAL TRIAL PHASE.

THERE IS ELON AND HIS COMPANY TO START CLINICAL TRIALS ON ITS CHIP WHICH THEY HOPE WILL BE ABLE TO HELP PEOPLE REGAIN HIS SIGHT AND MUSCLE CONTROL THEY PREVIOUSLY LOST.

THOUGH THE FDA CANNOT -- DENIED THEIR APPLICATION CITING SAFETY CONCERNS.

HOW WOULD THESE DEVICES WORK AND WHAT ARE THE RISKS?

I AM JOINED BY ANTONIO REGALADO, SENIOR EDITOR FOR THE BIOMEDICINE AT M.I.T.

TECH REVIEW AND NEED TO FAIR HONEY -- NITA FRARAHANY, SHE SERVED ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'’S PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION FOR THE STUDY OF BIOETHICAL COMMISSIONS AND SHE IS THE AUTHOR OF "THE BATTLE FOR YOUR BRAIN: DEFENDING THE RIGHT TO THINK FREELY IN THE AGE OF NEUROTECHNOLOGY".

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO.

I PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY WHO HAVE HAD BRAIN STIMULATION SURGERY, PACEMAKERS ARE PART OF THAT FAMILY AS WELL.

WHAT IS THE CURRENT TECHNOLOGY OUT THERE AND HOW IS IT BEING USED?

ANTONIO: IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IMPLANTED TECHNOLOGY IN YOUR BRAIN, THAT COULD INCLUDE DIFFERENT SHUNTS, IF YOU HAVE FLUID IN THE BRAIN.

DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION FOR PARKINSON'’S DISEASE, IT'’S AN ELECTRODE THAT PULSES WITH ELECTRICITY IN YOUR BRAIN.

PARKINSON'’S PATIENTS HAVE TREMORS AND IT.

THE TREMORS.

THEN THERE ARE DEVICES FOR EPILEPSY.

SAME IDEA, SHOCK THE BRAIN IN A -CONTROLLED WAY AND CONTROL THE EPILEPSY.

THE NEXT STEP ARE THESE INTERFACES, IMPLANTED ELECTRODES SO PEOPLE CAN CONTROL COMPUTERS.

LIKE A COMPUTER MOUSE.

THAT IS THE AMAZING THING ABOUT BRAIN COMPUTER INTERFACES THAT ALREADY WORK.

YOU CAN CONTROL COMPUTER, COMPUTER MOUSE WITH YOUR PHONE.

SUE: IN MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WATCHING MY LOVED ONES GO THROUGH THIS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE MAGNETIC THERAPY WHERE THEY PUT MAGNETIC PULSES THROUGH YOUR BRAIN, IT SEEMS A BIT HIT-OR-MISS IN SOME WAYS.

I HERE FROM SOME PEOPLE, WE ARE NOT SURE HOW THE BRAIN WORKS, WE KNOW THE SCIENCE, ARE WE MOVING AHEAD WITH A BEST GUESS, IS THAT WITH THE FDA IS FOR?

IS THEIR SOLID EVIDENTIARY SCIENCE?

ANTONIO: THE AMAZING THING ABOUT THESE BRAIN IMPLANTS THAT ARE PUT ON THE MOTOR CORTEX IS THAT THEY REALLY DO WORK.

IT'’S A SERIES OF ELECTRODES TOUCHING SOME NEURONS IN YOUR MOTOR CORTEX WHICH IS HERE ON THE OUTSIDE.

BY READING THOSE SIGNALS, THE SCIENTISTS CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF EMOTIONS YOU ARE IMAGINING, IMAGINE YOU ARE MOVING YOUR ARM LIKE THIS, THEY CAN DETECT SIGNALS AND REPRODUCE THEM IN A ROBOTIC ARM OR ON A COMPUTER SCREEN WITH THE MOUSE.

IT IS REALLY REPEATABLE.

THE BIG QUESTION IS THE IMPLANT, IS THIS PIECE OF METAL, EVEN IF IT IS FINE, THAT HAS TO GO IN YOUR BRAIN, THAT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT SAFETY OF THE DEVICE.

SUE: EVERY TIME I SPEAK TO A COLLEGE CLASS AND THEY ASKED ME, WHY DIDN'’T I DO MORE ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE OR WHY I WAS NOT CONCERNED ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY, I POINT OUT TO THEM THAT I THINK THAT THERE ARE THINGS THEY SHOULD BE VOID ABOUT IN THEIR 20'’S, THAT WHEN THEY ARE IN -- WORRIED ABOUT IN THEIR 20'’S.

I USUALLY SAY THE ROBOTIC POLICE DOGS.

THAT IS WHAT I TELL THEM TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE AREAS, WE ARE NOT THERE YET.

BUT WHO WOULD BE USING THIS TECHNOLOGY NOW AND WHAT WOULD OUR CONCERNS BE IF WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION RIGHT NOW TO KEEP OURSELVES SAFE AND USE IT ETHICALLY?

NITA: I THINK THAT, JUST AS ANTONIO POINTS OUT, THE TECHNOLOGY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, IMPLANTED ELECTRODES, USED BY PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM NEURODEGENERATIVE DISORDERS OR 12 LOST THEIR ABILITIES TO COMMUNICATE.

THE ETHICAL ISSUES ARE AROUND SAFETY AND AROUND ENSURING THAT THE AUTONOMY OF THE INDIVIDUAL ON WHOM THESE ARE BEING RESEARCHED ARE ABLE TO PROVIDE CONSENT, THERE ARE QUESTIONS WITH THE DEEP BRAIN STIMULATION ABOUT CONTINUITY OF SELF, WHAT IS THAT MEAN FOR PERSON WITH DEPRESSION?

I FOCUS ON THE NEXT GENERATION OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES WHICH IS, AS WE MOVE FROM IMPLANTED ELECTRODES AND IMPLANTED TECHNOLOGY WHICH IS FOCUSED ON ENABLING PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST DIFFERENT ABILITIES, TO WHEN IT BECOMES MORE OF AN EVERYDAY DEVICE.

THESE ARE MOVING FROM IMPLANTED NEUROTECHNOLOGY TO BRAIN SENSORS THAT ARE INTEGRATED INTO OUR EARBUDS OR INTO HEADPHONES, THAT PICK UP EVERY DAY BRAIN ACTIVITY AND ARE ALSO BEING PROMOTED FOR USING TO OPERATE VIDEO GAMES OR TO MEDITATE OR TO EVEN TRACK YOUR ATTENTION OR FOCUS OR START TO LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR BRAIN HEALTH.

I WORRY ABOUT ALL THE CLASSIC THINGS WE WORRY ABOUT WITH THE COMMODIFICATION OF OUR DATA.

WHEN IT STARTS TO BE COMMODIFICATION OF BRAIN DATABY GOVERNMENTS THAT CAN.

TO OUR MENTAL EXPERIENCES -- PEER INTO OUR MENTAL EXPENSES, OUR INNERMOST SELVES, OUR MENTAL PRIVACY, FREEDOM OF THOUGHT IS AT RISK.

SUE: I DON'’T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT DURING THE LAST CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS, WHEN CONGRESS WERE TALKING TO THE TIKTOK CEO, I WAS A BIT MORE IMPRESSED THAN USUAL THAT THEY ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD SOME THINGS READ THEY DID NOT MAKE TAYLOR SWIFT SONG REFERENCES.

BUT THE LAWMAKERS ARE STILL VERY FAR BEHIND TECHNOLOGY THAT WE ARE USING NOW THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT.

ON A REGULAR BASIS WE GIVE IT UP.

WE GO, THIS IS SO EASY, I WAS SO WORRIED ABOUT IT.

I HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH MY PHONE ONCE THAT RECORDED, ALTHOUGH IT DID NOT SAY IT RECORDED, THEY SAY IT STORED, AND TRIED TO TEXT OUT A PRIVATE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH MY BOSS.

IT WAS JUST THE BUG.

IF SOMEONE IS LEARNING ABOUT THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHAT SHOULD THEY BE CONCERNED ABOUT?

WHAT ACTIONS SHOULD THEY TAKE FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF THIS TECHNOLOGY?

NITA: TODAY, WHAT THESE EVERY DAY BRAIN CENTERS CAN DO ARE LIMITED.

THEY CAN PICK UP BRAIN STATES LIKE ATTENTION OR FOCUS, OR MIND WANDERING.

WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT THE KIND OF NORMALIZATION OF TECHNOLOGY THAT IS A BRAND-NEW CATEGORY.

MANY OF PEOPLE HAVE USED THESE BRAIN CENTERS, THINK ABOUT IT AS A HEART RATE CENTER IN THEIR WATCH OR FITBIT PICKING UP THE NUMBER OF STEPS THEY'’RE TAKING.

THIS IS BEING TRAINED ON DATA THAT IS DIFFERENT.

WHAT'’S HAPPENING IN YOUR BRAIN AND MENTAL PROCESSES IS DIFFERENT THAN THE NUMBER OF STEPS YOU HAVE TAKEN OR WHAT YOUR HEART RATE IS.

IT GETS MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN.

WHETHER IT MEANS ABOUT THE DETECTING AND DECODING OF THE INFORMATION, OR EVENTUALLY THE ABILITY TO MAKE CHANGES TO WHAT THROUGH ELECTRICAL STIMULATION, WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT INTERFERENCE BY CORPORATIONS MANDATED USE OF IT IN THE WORKPLACE OR USE BY GOVERNMENTS WHERE IT IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE WORLD, WHERE POLICE DEPARTMENTS ARE USING NEUROTECHNOLOGY TO INTERROGATE GREENWELL -- CRIMINAL SUSPECTS BRAIN.

WE SHOULD WORRY ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THE INFORMATION, HOW MUCH CAN HE PICK UP FROM THE BRAIN, WHAT IS BEING DECODED AND WHAT CHOICES ARE WE MAKING ABOUT PEOPLE?

THE CHOICES PEOPLE MAKE TODAY, IS HOW DO WE GET AHEAD OF WHEN THE TECHNOLOGY IS GOOD ENOUGH, TO TO CODE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE BRAIN?

HOW TO ENSURE THAT IT'’S DIFFERENT SO WE CAN SAY THIS IS ACTUALLY THE MOST SENSITIVE AREA OF THE BODY THAT YOU COULD BE DECODING AND TO SAFEGUARD IT SO IT IS USED TO EMPOWER PEOPLE, AND SO PEOPLE HAVE SELF-DETERMINATION OVER THAT INFORMATION.

I'’VE BEEN PROPOSING THIS RIGHT TO COGNITIVE LIBERTY.

IT WOULD GIVE PEOPLE RIGHTS IN THE DIGITAL AGE THAT ENSURE OUR BRAINS AND MENTAL EXPERIENCES ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY.

AND ARE NOT EASILY TAKEN OVER BY CORPORATIONS AND GOVERNMENT AS THE REST OF OUR DATA.

SUE: IN THE RIGHT NOW, IT'’S BEING USED FOR FOLKS WHO NEED IT MEDICALLY.

HOW TO THE BUSINESSES, THE COMPANIES THINK THEY WILL MAKE MONEY ON THIS?

THERE IS A LIMITED NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO NEED IT RIGHT NOW.

ANTONIO: THIS BASIC EXPERIMENT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, PUT IN ELECTRODES, HAVE SOMEBODY MOVE A CURSOR, THIS IS 20 YEARS OLD.

THE DIFFERENCE IS ELON MUSK.

HE HAS LOTS OF MONEY TO BRING TO THE PROBLEM AND LOTS OF AMBITION.

HE'’S GOT SELF DRIVING CARS, ROCKETS LANDING.

SO, LET'’S NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF MUSK'’S ARRIVAL ON THE SCENE.

HE BROUGHT TOGETHER A TEAM, WIT -- A WELL-FUNDED TEAM TO DEVELOP AN IMPLANT THAT COULD BE A CONSUMER PRODUCT.

WITH NEURO-LINK, ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS, THEY NEED TO START WITH SOMEONE THAT IS ILL. A QUADRIPLEGIC THAT COULD USE THIS DEVICE TO OPERATE A COMPUTER.

BUT, MUSK'’S ORIGINAL IDEA WAS TO HAVE A WHOLE BRAIN INTERFACE AND CREATE YOU, ME, EVERYBODY TWO COMPUTERS.

I WAS ON THEIR WEBSITE TODAY, IT'’S PITCHED LIKE A CONSUMER TECHNOLOGY.

HERE IS A DEVICE THAT YOU WOULD USE.

HEY IT IS GOING TO CONNECT TO BLUETOOTH.

HEY LOOK HOW NIFTY IT IS.

IT'’S A STRONG PITCH, THEY ARE PITCHING IT AS A CONSUMER DEVICE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE TO START WITH REAL MEDICAL PROBLEMS.

SUE: HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS?

THIS IS A QUESTION FOR YOU TOO NITA.

HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS FROM HENRY FORD AND THE INVENTORS OF THE AUTOMOBILE PUTTING THE CART OUT THERE AND SAYING, LET'’S SEE HOW THIS GOES.

THE REALITY IS, THE CONCERN OF SAFETY AND GOING SLOW, WE DON'’T INVENT THINGS.

I DID NOT INVENT THE ROCKET OR THE INTERNET.

IS THIS JUST NORMAL, INVENTOR BEHAVIOR?

AND WE HAVE TO CATCH UP.

ANTONIO: THERE IS THE ELON MUSK EFFECT NITA: WE CANNOT IGNORE THE THE FACT THAT HE IS PART OF IT.

HIS STATED INTENTION IS TO BRING THIS TO THE MASSES.

IT HAS A DIFFERENT EFFECT.

I DON'’T KNOW IF NEROLINK WILL SUCCEED IN ACHIEVING WHAT IT HAS SET OUT TO ACHIEVE.

IT'’S REALLY BROUGHT AN EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF ATTENTION TO THE FIELD.

BRAIN COMPUTER INTERFACE COMPANIES WHETHER IT IS IMPLANTED NEUROTECHNOLOGY COMPANIES OR THE HUGE NUMBER OF PLAYERS THAT HAVE STARTED TO INTRODUCE EVERYDAY BRAIN SENSORS, IT'’S STIMULATED ALL OF THE MAJOR TECH COMPANIES, ALL OF THE BRAIN COMPUTER INTERFACE COMPANIES TO RAPIDLY THINK ABOUT CONSUMER FACING TECHNOLOGIES WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE META INVESTING IN A WATCH THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SERVE AS A NEURO-INTERFACE TO AUGMENTED REALITY.

YOU HAVE SNAP BUYING MAJOR NEURO-TECH COMPANIES, LIKE NEXT MINDS, TO INTEGRATE INTO ITS PRODUCTS.

YOU HAVE MICROSOFT AND APPLE ALL LOOKING AT DEVELOPING NEURAL INTERFACE FOR EVERYONE.

IT'’S THE BIG UNTAPPED MARKET IN SO MANY WAYS.

PEOPLE ARE USED TO QUANTIFYING EVERY ASPECT OF THEIR BODIES AND HEALTH.

BUT WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OUR OWN BRAINS.

THE MUSK AFFECT HAS LED TO A HUGE AMOUNT OF FUNDING AND ARRAYS TO BE THE FIRST TO DEVELOP -- A RACE TO DEVELOP AN APP.

SUE: WOULD YOU AGREE?

ANTONIO: I DO.

WHEN I FIRST HEARD HE WAS PROPOSING A CONSUMER BRAIN IMPLANT I SAID NO WAY.

NO WAY AS ANY SURGEON GOING TO OPEN SOMEONE SCHOOL IF THEY DON'’T -- SKULL IF THEY DON'’T NEED IT.

MY YOU STARTED TO CHANGE.

I TALKED TO NEUROSURGEONS.

THEY DO THIS EVERY DAY.

OPENING SOMEBODY'’S BRAIN AND PUTTING IN A DEVICE, THEY DON'’T THINK IT IS THAT BIG OF A DEAL.

NUMBER TWO, MY IPHONE IS STARTING TO TELL ME HOW MANY HOURS A DAY I USE IT.

IT'’S LIKE SIX HOURS A DAY, THAT IS ON TOP OF THE OTHER COMPUTER I AM USING.

I REALIZE THAT IN A SHORT TIMEFRAME, IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, PEOPLE HAVE GONE FROM USING COMPUTERS TWO HOURS A DAY, TO EVERY WAKING MOMENT.

THAT CREATES A NEW ARGUMENT, WHY YOU MAY WANT ONE OF THESE BRAIN THINGS.

SUE: MY CHATGPT IMPLANT IS TELLING ME --WHAT I LIKE ONE OF THEM?

WOULD YOU LIKE ONE OF THEM?

ANTONIO: UM.

I DON'’T KNOW.

CAN I GET A PROMO CODE?

SUE: MY CHATGPT IMPLANT IS TELLING ME IT IS TIME TO WRAP.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

THANKS SO MUCH, I APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT ON THIS.

ANTONIO: THANK YOU.

NITA: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

SUE: THANK YOU.

THAT'’S IT FOR TONIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

I AM SUE O'’CONNELL.

GOOD NIGHT.