- [Kelly] New campaign fundraising figures are released, with State Democrats bragging about their fundraising prowess.

And we explore the teacher turnover rate and what it could mean for education.

This is State Lines.

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[orchestral music] ♪ - Hello again, and welcome to State Lines, I'm Kelly McCullen.

Joining me today, Capital Bureau Chief of the News & Observer, Dawn Vaughn.

To our right, representative Jason Sane, he represents Lincoln County.

Senator Natalie Murdoch covers, I say represents, you're not a reporter, Senator.

Chatham and Durham County's public relations consultant, Pat Ryan, in seat number four.

Welcome, everyone, it's so good to see all of you.

And Happy New Year to the one of you haven't been on since before the new year.

And it's so good to have you back.

- Happy to be back.

- Being a good, you appear on Black Issues Forum and you bounce between shows, so-- - Thank you.

- Well, let's get started with a campaign finance news.

A new report is out, North Carolina's Democratic Party reports it had $2.44 million in the bank in February where the state Republican Party reporting out $871,000.

Our friend of this show, Collin Campbell, was doing a lot of reporting on this.

They say the GOP's party donations in this case mainly came from campaign committees and PCs, with only $170,000 coming from donors.

But on the Democratic side, it raised $1.5 million from donors.

Over the election cycle, Democrats report raising over five and a quarter million dollars.

The GOP is sitting on 3.4 million.

Don, what's 1,600,000 between parties?

And there's more to fundraising than those $2 amount.

We're just talking parties, right?

Not individual politicians, legislators, and other groups.

- Well, the amount of money you have shows, I mean, obviously what you use it for advertising, getting your message out, support for campaigns, but it also kind of takes the temperature of what people are interested in and what, you know, Collins' coverage shows that statewide Democrats are doing a lot better, people wanting to give money to them.

Republicans, not so great.

Now the Republicans of course, argue, well, wait a minute, our legislative races, you know, we have all this money, but that's different than what Collin was looking at and what the statewide party is.

And Council of State, which is the governor and the other 10 statewide elected officials, people wanna give money in different groups, whether they like the, I mean, Trump is the top of the party, so it's do they want, you know, Trump likes a lot of money for himself, maybe less for other candidates.

So people might be more interested in giving money to state lawmakers that they know versus the National Party State Party where they're not sure of the people at top.

And that's what republicans have said too.

- Representative Sane, how do you know if you wanna give to your party or to your candidate?

How do you know where the money goes?

There's a party at GOP or the Democratic Party asks me for a donation?

You as a candidate may ask me for a donation.

Doesn't the House caucus have someone raising money and there's PACs?

- Yeah, that's right.

There's multiple ways that that money's raised.

So really what Collin has done is take a snapshot and it doesn't really get to the full level of how fundraising works.

I think really from traditionally, the Democratic party in North Carolina and the Republican Party in North Carolina raise money differently.

We do it more through our members, House Republicans, Senate Republicans are out there raising tons of cash, and we're actually overperforming from what we did in the last cycle.

And that's with losing our biggest fundraiser, the Speaker of the House who's now running for Congress.

So we're overperforming on the house side.

So that doesn't necessarily translate in his snapshot.

I'm not saying that what he said is wrong, I'm just saying it doesn't give you a full picture because as the election cycle goes on, we push money into the state party and so forth, so that money can go, you know, to different candidates.

Like I raise a lot of money because one, I'm the appropriations chairman part of leadership.

People know me, they see me, and I'm a known quantity.

But a lot of what I do, and if you go back and look at historically, I'll end up transferring some of that money into the state party.

And so it doesn't really give you a fair shot of who's got more and who's got what, it's just in different pots.

- And made for a great tweak, Senator Murdoch, the Democrats have something they can brag about.

Their party apparatus with the office downtown, - Yes.

- Is apparently out raising the GOP party office that's also downtown Raleigh.

So, is Jason saying's interpretation accurate?

This is a multifaceted deal here, right?

- Yeah, well first and foremost, we are excited about that strong fundraising number.

It is received national attention, hats off to chair, Anderson Clayton, do consider her a friend along with the entire team at the Goodwin House right downtown.

They have been doing events all over the nation.

Folks are paying attention to North Carolina.

As you know, there are some problematic candidates that have been getting national media attention and that money has flowed into the state as a result of a lot of that.

And this is the early money that we need as we begin to open up offices, support our local county parties at the local level.

I was first vice chair of the Durham County Democrats, so we really, really have to support all of our parties across the state.

And so we are excited that we are well positioned going into the summer.

We will, as the young people say, be outside doing a lot of work, needing to hire organizers and more staff.

And that number is gonna give us the funding that we need to do just that so that we can blanket the state and organize, so we're excited.

- And I know the vice president's come to Durham several times.

Maybe President Biden seems to go to Raleigh.

- He's been to Durham.

- He's been to Durham too.

- He's been to Durham, yeah.

- What does it do for you locally when you're asking people for your support locally, when Kamala Harris comes in and just visits and just breezes through, gets seen on TV and out the door?

Does that really help or is it more of a political statement?

- It's a mix, as the representative mentioned.

So I'm in the same boat where I also have to raise, I'm in what you would consider a safe seat.

So a lot of the funds I raise go to the Senate caucus along with the party, and I give it to my local party as well.

But it really gives us the energy and the boost and the momentum that we need as you see.

So just started on Monday with the Biden Harris campaign as Director of Coalitions and political, and we have momentum.

Them coming here is to show that they are invested in North Carolina.

They know that during the Beasley race, we could have done more.

So now they are showing us that they're all in opening 10 offices just to start across the state.

So it's really given the, that energy so that folks have confidence that when they donate, when they contribute that we are in this, we're in this race to win.

- And Pat, you were over in Senator Berger's office running the Senate.

Lots of money goes through there and Senator Berger a long time leader sharing the wealth among his caucus.

How does that work?

What do you make of this report?

It certainly got Matt Mercer's attention, our friend as well from the old North State Journal who's now running comms for the party.

Fun to see on Twitter, but what's your analysis?

- Yeah, it's good to have some evening Twitter fights every now and then, keeps things interesting.

Colin Campbell, the reporter for that WNC story, caught a little flack on Twitter/X and I think some of that pushback was justified as Representative Saine explained a little bit.

I mean, if the purpose of the story is to compare Democratic and Republican fundraising heft, then just pulling state party numbers is not the way to do that.

I mean, for example, Senate Republicans, I think, reported they have $6 million, which is $5 million more than the Senate Democrats, so, I mean, you need to look at more than just the party apparatus because they do raise funding differently.

Senator Berger, for example, often brings in a lot of funding and transfers that around.

Doesn't just all go through the state party.

- Well, no one wants to look like a loser, right?

So you wanna be the winner, so you'll highlight what the winning part of your fundraiser is.

- Yeah, a bunch of ways to slice and dice the numbers.

I mean, you can come out with anything you want.

- Play your strengths, right.

I mean, we've got 24 members that have more cash on hand than the Minority Leader in the House.

- Well, sure.

- So, I mean, again, it's not an apples-to-apples comparison when you take that snapshot.

- Would having nominee Trump come in and do a barnstorming tour and do his campaign, does that help the party raise money?

I mean, it gins up as fans, but are there, is it Republicans who are Trump fans giving, or does he generate interest from all Republicans to give money to Republicans like you?

- Well, you know, it's who you're most popular with.

That's who starts giving the money, right?

I mean, that's how that works, but when we talk about local parties, I've been a local party chairman as well.

When the tickets start, when people really start focusing in and paying attention to what's happening nationally, you'll see local parties start to raise more and more money as well, I think on both sides.

I mean, that's just the way it works.

We've got, you know, pockets here and there where we really do some strong, strong fundraising.

The Republican Party's a little more, I think, not as Raleigh-focused as it is out kind of in the hinterlands of the state.

I mean, that's where we raise our money and that's why I say when we raise it, we raise it from our members and it's just an inversion.

I don't know that it necessarily, it makes for a great story and when people want to brag on their, you know, look what we've done, you can always counter it 'cause there's a lot of money coming in on both sides, a lot of energy on both sides.

- Yeah, and Collin's participation on state lines makes this show better.

I'm not gonna knock his reporting, he just chose something that made, bristled Republican Party fundraisers 'cause there is a discrepancy there, I mean- - And then you don't wanna look like you're not ahead, but if you have to move money around, it's showing that you're not getting money, like in a way that the others are, so it's what does it represent?

And a lot of people vote against things and people not just for, and people give money against things and people not just for, so I think that is what it shows.

- Does the economy affect political contributions, or does the fever of the political rhetoric make people overlook and give their last dollar to that candidate for governor or president?

- Well, it can, depending on what their outlook is, right?

If they think that the country's going in the wrong direction, you'll end up seeing more donations coming in from Republicans into the effort to defeat Joe Biden.

But again, if Democrats are thinking that Joe Biden's doing exactly right, you're gonna see more money on that side of things, so I think it drives it, as people start to laser focus in on the election.

Once it becomes real, once it becomes soon, you see more and more dollars coming in.

- And it really can go both ways.

With Sanders and Obama, they made the model of the small dollar donors, and so what we've learned, those two to $3 a week, or $2 a month, that is really unlimited, so folks are willing to do that if they don't have the two, three, 5,000, and do have to add, we also had the President and the VP here set a record for North Carolina for Dems, 2.3 million at that fundraiser that they had in Raleigh, so back to moving money around, that DNC money also will come back to North Carolina as well.

- And let's stay right here and talk about the Biden campaign is boosting its election staff throughout North Carolina.

They say they're opening 10 offices statewide.

The campaign's already making regular stops in North Carolina.

Senator, is that because Donald Trump won the state in 2020 by 1.34 percentage points?

That's not that many votes.

- Yeah, I was there and that 1% was keeping us up at night.

You know, we kept looking at those polls.

We're like 1%, 1%.

And so that's why I had to join again, so just started on Monday, but North Carolina is a huge priority for them.

Particularly when we look at the Trump map, we know how important North Carolina is for Donald Trump and so we have to go on offense.

I think North Carolina is probably the main state where they're going on offense instead of defense to say, "Let's invest early."

It was covid the last time around with Democrats.

You gotta get out there, you gotta talk to them, you gotta do that deep canvassing, so having these offices spread across the state and in different counties.

We'll be in Alamance County earlier, we'll be in Johnston County, so we also are gonna be targeting more counties too, expand that map.

Being that I'm from Guilford County, but I have family in Alamance and out west and east, you will see us be in other parts of the state a lot earlier in 2024.

- Pat, why aren't we seeing Mark Robinson at cookout and not seeing Donald Trump walking amongst the people?

Take it, whether you like Joe Biden or not, he's here and they're being seen regularly.

With Cooper, with Governor Cooper.

- Well, I can't speak to Mark Robinson's fast food preferences.

I know that the President really enjoys cookouts, ice cream, I think it is.

- Let's do barbecue, how about that?

- Yeah- - But I'm saying, they're here and their cars are seen, they get out and they walk around.

We haven't seen that quite yet.

- They're in the Raleigh and Durham media markets, sure.

That's where their voters are.

Mark Robinson and other Republican candidates are where their voters are, outside the major media markets of the state.

But on the Biden staff up, I mean, it's just so tantalizing, isn't it?

They come so close every year, just close enough probably to justify pretty large scale investments in North Carolina.

But Steve Harrison, who I think is one of the sharpest political minds and reporters in the state, had a nice breakdown last week that I think's relevant to this discussion.

About population trends, he said quote, "For years, Democrats have seen Republicans getting stronger in rural counties, but were able to placate themselves with the knowledge those parts of the state are shrinking.

That's no longer true."

Some of the fastest-growing counties in the state are now red counties and also consider the realignment underway.

In 2008, voters with no college education preferred Democrats by 14 points.

Now it's inverted, they prefer Republicans by 16 points.

So, President Biden can spend here, can staff up here.

It's clear why he will, but I don't see the evidence that there's been much of a change in what we saw in 2016 and 2020 in North Carolina.

- Dawn, is it exciting to go through all the security detail and just be there with every stop, every step of the way with a presidential candidate coming around?

- It's, I've been in like the motorcade before in the press, in the, like, local traveling press.

It is fun when they clear the interstate for you, but it's a lot like the ledge.

It's a lot of sitting around and waiting and it's, you know, I, sometimes it's boring, like waiting before things start 'cause of how that works, but sure, yeah, it's a big deal when it's national people.

Morgan Jackson, the Democratic Strategist, you have on here a lot.

He told me about a month ago, right before the primary, he said, "You're gonna see a principal here about every week."

And I thought, every week?

And well, so far we have.

Now on the Republican side, I don't know if that's going to be Trump.

It depends on is Trump going to bring out Republican voters or do people not want him or think he's gonna, you know, keep money for himself and not support others as much.

But I think Democrats obviously saw that Republicans in the past elections have had a much better ground game.

And so Democrats are now trying to up their ground game.

- I do have to add, we just thank them for listening.

I was there in 2020.

It was the pandemic where we were being safe back to a principal every week.

Trump was here every week.

If it wasn't Trump, it was Pence, it was his daughter-in-law or son.

So we said, all right, we gotta up the game.

We gotta get our principles here.

So do wanna thank them for continuing to do that in North Carolina.

To the turnout point, we will be really digging into what we call our coalitions, AAPI voters, African American voters.

Those suburban voters, we are not counting them out.

We know that in North Carolina, if you really look at those numbers, really the suburbs, where you can win or lose a race.

And so we will be targeting them early on and we know that we can do better with turnout with voters of color.

And where lids are focused on that as well.

- Let's think about what that is, right?

I mean, part of it's a mission of look, it's not polling well right now.

Trump's polling very well in North Carolina, so he's concentrating his efforts somewhere else.

You'll see these numbers, you know, go back and forth, you know, until we get to November.

But, you know, it's smart to invest early, it's smart to have a ground game.

Both parties are gonna do that and we'll see what happens at the end.

But it is, you know, just part of the politics business when there is a national race like that to see that influx of interest and the surrogates that come, you'll see 'em.

I was with Don Jr. not that long ago at a luncheon helping raise money for some of our congressional folks.

So you'll see 'em all over the place.

- Alright, yeah, and besides, if Republicans put out a press release saying they're opening 10 field offices, some newspaper will pick it up and we'll see and go, Hey, let's talk about that.

Well, on Monday, the State Health Plan discontinued coverage of those new injectable weight loss drugs.

State Treasurer, Dale Falwell, says State Health Plan premiums would need to double if coverage of Ozempic and Wegovy continued.

22,000 members of the State Health Plan were using these drugs at a cost of an estimated $1,300 per month per user.

Treasurer Falwell says the drug makers are refusing to negotiate on pricing.

Pat, full disclosure, you represent an organization or a company, you can explain that, that helps navigate drug prices on behalf of the State Health Plan.

Go.

That's all.

- That's possible.

So right disclosure, one of my clients is CVS Caremark, which is a pharmacy benefit manager, and they negotiate with drug companies on behalf of clients, including in this case, the State Health Plan.

So, I mean, here's the core of the issue.

These new and revolutionary weight loss drugs are amazingly effective.

Nobody disputes that.

Everybody talks about people lose weight, they live healthier lives.

They probably have reduced risk of heart complications and things like that because of reduced obesity in the long term.

And they're also amazingly expensive.

Last year, these weight loss drugs alone cost the State Health Plan over $100 million, which is 10% of their entire prescription drug spend.

And more and more people every year kept on becoming enrolled and getting those benefits for those drugs.

So the plan said, we can't really afford this.

In January, they decided to stop allowing new people to be covered for these drugs.

And then in April, just this past Monday, they ended all coverage for everybody to receive assistance for those drugs.

You know, for its part, the manufacturer of Wegovy, Novo Nordisk, has called the plan's decision irresponsible.

And so the plan hasn't agreed to workable options.

The State Health Plan and organizations like Scenic have really pointed out that, well, hang on a second.

Wegovy costs $1,350 here in the United States, but over in Europe, in Denmark, for example, it costs 10% of that 343, 20%, $343.

So there's just a lot going on here.

A lot of concern about price, a lot of concern about what it is an effective drug and how to navigate that.

The plan isn't the only, you know, organization in the country that's dealing with it, everybody in the country is having these problems.

- I don't wanna put you on the spot and ask you a question you don't know, but would CVS Caremark in negotiating, is there a fiduciary interest to get the best deal possible for State Health Plan members?

Or is it to represent what they are told to do by either the budget or by the treasurer or whoever controls the first.

- Yeah, no, that's a great question.

Thanks for asking it.

So Caremark's contract is with the State Health Plan.

Their role, their duty is to negotiate the best price possible for all drugs, not just Wegovy, but including Wegovy for their client, in this case, the State Health Plan, They receive just an administrative fee for that work.

They don't get a cut of savings or anything having to do with the negotiated outcomes with the manufacturers.

They're paid a contract fee and that's their role for the State Health Plan.

- And a point on the price, there was a new report that came out in the last two weeks.

You can produce some of these drugs for as low as $22, $22.

So when it comes to this price, we really are gonna have to work with these companies to get a handle on why is it so expensive?

Because to your point of when you just look at long term, I'm in this too.

My own doctor told me during my physical, I need to lose 10 pounds.

And so even though I'm not using any of that medication, it really does prolong your life.

It allows you to get a handle of avoiding pre-existing conditions.

So there is a reason that people need to use this medicine.

Of course those with diabetes should be at the front of that list.

But the pricing of this is concerning.

- So people with diabetes are still eligible for coverage.

Just wanna make that clear.

- We also have to think about the cost saved though, right?

I mean yes, it's expensive and yes, we'd like to see, you know, it be cheaper for sure, but there's also a lot of costs in obesity.

30% of folks in the United States who are in non-farm jobs are obese.

You know, I get to sit in a room and negotiate a budget, so I get to pack on the pounds.

- I too need to lose that weight, and matter of fact, was talking to my doctor in December about getting on one of these medications to see.

Then of course, that kinda got pulled out from under me.

I'm still pursuing it to see.

Right now there's a limit of supply which is one of the reasons that the cost is so high.

They can't keep up with the demand, so that is driving the price up.

So there's part of the market driving that as well, You know, as the treasurer looks at it and how we negotiate that, I think talking to some of the representatives from the drug companies, they're at the table and they do wanna negotiate.

They wanna find a way to get, you know, these costs reduced from the bigger standpoint of the higher medical cost.

You know, when we address these issues like heart disease and heart attacks and everything that comes with being overweight, somewhere, there's a nice equilibrium that says, well, it costs this, but it will cost us a lot more into the future if we don't deal with this issue today.

And so I think there's a lot to be said here.

You know, we're six months into it, eight months into it, trying to figure it out.

It is kind of a wonder drug.

I've got friends who've gone on it and have had dramatic weight loss.

And they're healthier, they feel better, they certainly look better.

And it's helping take a lot of that pressure.

You know, when you carry extra weight, it's hard on your heart, it's all the things that go along with it.

So I think that, you know, getting to a place where we can drive this cost down, where we can get more supply, which needs to happen as well to help drive that cost down, and then re-looking at this.

'Cause I don't think that we need to walk away from it, you know, particularly when it comes to the health of our state employees, but of everybody.

I mean, really everybody should be able to have access to this somehow.

We'll get there, but I think it's pretty early on when you think about how long the drug's been on the market.

- [Kelly] What do you make of Dale Folwell taking the lead on this and going public and on the radio shows and interviews discussing this issue?

And he's put his flag in the ground again.

- Folwell likes to save money.

I remember his, you know, clear pricing plan and that's his job as treasurer to save money.

That's personally how he is too.

Talked to him recently before he lost his primary to Robinson and he said, you know, everybody likes to save.

And how that's across the board for, I mean, professionally for him, but also when it comes to prescription drug prices, it's a problem for everybody.

And you talked about things being on the market for a long time.

Price gouging of things that have been around decades, you know, a hundred years, who's benefiting from that, I mean, when you think about the cost?

- You can pinch pennies and throw away dollars, right?

I mean, that's the other thing.

- We got about two and a half minutes left on this last story.

It may only get to the legislators here, but the State Board of Education reports that North Carolina's teacher turnover rate is up 47% with one in nine teachers choosing to leave the profession altogether.

33% fewer education degrees are being bestowed on students, but certifications are up 44%.

Representatives saying, ah, here we are.

People don't like to be broke and they don't like to be stressed, and that seems to be a lot of teachers out there.

And I don't think anybody disagrees with their plight.

- No, I don't think anyone does, right?

I mean, consistently we've raised teacher pay in North Carolina.

As I've been budget chairman, we continue to do that.

We focus more because what we were told and what we know was that we needed to recruit new teachers.

So we've been dealing with that problem.

But then you've also got discipline problems too in the school systems, right?

And in some places in North Carolina, it's a real challenge.

I mean, no one wants to go deal with that.

So we've really got a multifaceted approach to how to deal with the problem.

It's not something that can be solved overnight and it didn't just start yesterday.

You know, and part of it too is, you know, it doesn't seem real sexy of a position to go into right now.

So you've got those issues.

You also have, it's not statewide either.

A county like Lincoln is pretty level set.

We've not seen these vast jumps in, you know, a need to recruit more teachers.

We've been pretty consistent.

Union County, there's other places in the state.

So there's a lot going on there.

It's not something that you can fix right away, and we also know that workers are changing, what they wanna do.

What folks coming outta college right now want to do has changed a lot.

- All right, last minute to you, Senator Murdock, from the Democratic perspective.

Money can't cure at all.

It could help, but how do you get the culture right?

- Even though it doesn't cure at all, it still definitely is a factor.

I definitely think there's still a lot we can do with teacher pay.

Particularly, I represent Durham along with Chatham County.

Chatham County is also becoming more expensive 'cause we're growing quickly.

And so I do think not only teacher pay, but recruitment.

I came up at a time where the Teaching Fellows program was rocking and rolling.

I think about half of my high school classmates, proud product of public schools in Guilford County, wanted to be teachers, so I think we still can do better with restoring masters pay.

And I also think just stop attacking teachers.

I think instead of the cultural wars, let's focus on educating our children, supporting these teachers' retention.

I do think there's more we can do to keep those veteran teachers in the classrooms as well.

- And it's a whole 30 minute show to discuss what Durham's going through with teacher pay.

- Yes.

- And the way the salary scales went.

Anyway, I'm out of time.

Thank you, Dawn, for being here, sharing your expertise.

Representative Saine, Senator Murdock.

- Thank you.

- Mr. Ryan, always good to see you.

- Thank you.

- It's even better to see you and to know that you're watching "State Lines", so we appreciate it.

Thank you for watching.

Email us your thoughts and opinions to statelines@pbsnc.org.

We'll read every email.

We love to hear from you, our viewers.

I'm Kelly McCullen.

Thank you for watching, we'll see you next time.

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