.

>> TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON," WITH COVID FATIGUE AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH, AND CASES ONCE AGAIN RISING ANYWAY, IS YOUR COVID PREP-KIT UP-TO-DATE?

AND WHAT SHOULD YOU BE DOING TO KEEP SAFE THESE DAYS, ANYWAY?

TWO DOCTORS JOIN ME ON THAT.

THEN LATER, A CLOSER LOOK AT THE BOSTON ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION'S DECISION TO BAN MOST RUNNERS WHO LIVE IN RUSSIA AND BELARUS, AND THOSE WHO WANT TO RUN UNDER THOSE NATIONS' FLAGS.

AS ITS WEATHER GETS WARMER AND MORE PEOPLE GET OUT AND ABOUT, THERE'S A PRETTY STRONG FEELING OUT THERE THAT MOST WANT TO MOVE ON FROM THINKING ABOUT COVID.

THERE'S FEWER FACEMASKS, FEWER MANDATES.

BUT HERE'S A SAMPLING OF JUST A FEW HEADLINES FROM TODAY: HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI TESTS POSITIVE FOR COVID; "WAS AT WHITE HOUSE WITH BIDEN," CONNECTICUT GOVERNOR NED LAMONT, POSITIVE FOR COVID.

"MASSACHUSETTS CORONAVIRUS CASES JUMP BY 27%; HOSPITALIZATIONS RISE"; "C.D.C.

IDENTIFIES COVID-19 REINFECTIONS AS SOON AS 23 DAYS APART,", AND OH YEAH, THERE'S A NEW VARIANT LIKELY COMING OUR WAY!

AND YOU GUESSED IT, IT'S EVEN MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN THOSE BEFORE.

SO WHERE DO WE STAND NOW?

AND WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING TO PROTECT OURSELVES, BOTH WHEN RATES ARE LOWER, AND IN PREPARATION FOR WHEN THEY GET HIGHER?

JOINING ME ARE DR. CASSANDRA PIERRE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH PROGRAMS AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER, AND DR. LAKSHMAN SWAMY, A CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN AT CAMBRIDGE HEALTH ALLIANCE AND INSTRUCTOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

DOCTORS, WELCOME BACK, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

I WANT TO JUMP RIGHT BACK IN HERE DR. PIERRE.

WE'RE GOING TO KEEP GETTING VARIANTSES HERE.

AND WE CAN'T PREDICT, I SAY WE LIKE I'M WITH YOU, BUT YOU CAN'T PREDICT HOW SERIOUS THEY'RE GOING TO BE UNTIL THEY'VE ALREADY HIT US.

WHAT SHOULD OUR THINKING BE AT THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW?

>> I ACTUALLY APPRECIATE YOU USING THE COLLECTIVE WE BECAUSE THERE IS STILL THIS SENSE OF UNPREDICT ABILITY.

WE HAVE LOOKED AT OTHER COUNTRIES TO KIND OF DETERMINE WHERE WE MIGHT BE IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

WE SEE WITH THE YOU HAVE VARIANT B.2, IT MIGHT NOT BE AS EASY TO TURN AS WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IN THE PAST.

SO THIS TIME WHERE NUMBERS ARE SLOWLY CREEPING UP BUT STILL RELATIVELY LOW AND WE WANT TO GAGE, I THINK WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND IS' WITH HAVE TO KEEP LOOKING AT THOSE NUMBERS IN TERMS OF COVID POSITIVITY, AS MUCH AS WE WANT TO PUT IT BEHIND US IT IS STILL VERY MUCH WITH US.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT INCREASINGLY WE SEE MORE SEVERE COVID AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE UNVACCINATED OR UNDERVACCINATEDDED SO THOSE VACCINES ARE REALLY STILL INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

AND WE NEED TO ALSO THINK ABOUT THE TIMES WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE MORE AT RISK IN LARGE GATHERINGS, INDOOR SPACES AND THINKING ABOUT CEASE SONAL INCREASES TOWARDS THE FALL AND WINTER.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THOUGH TO KEEP OUR WITS ABOUT US.

LOOK TO SEE WHAT THE DATA IS SHOWING AND UNDERSTAND THAT WE SHOULD BE ALSO IMPROVING OUR UNDERLYING HEALTH, MAKING SURE WE ARE ADDRESSING ANY ISSUES LIKE DIABETES, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE THAT PUT US AT HIGHER RISK FOR MORE SEVERE COMPLICATIONS AND SPEAKING TO OUR DOCTORS ABOUT VACCINES AND WHAT IS RIGHT FOR US.

>> DOCTOR, MY PARENT, MY DAD BORN IN 1918, MY MOM 1920, THEY LIVED THROUGH THE DEPRESSION, MY DAD WAS IN WORLD WAR II.

WE LIVED IN A HURRICANE PLACE AND AT ONE POINT BOTH OF THEM SEPARATELY HAD LOST BELONGINGS TO HURRICANES HITTING.

THEY WERE BOTH, I WOULDN'T SAY OVERLY CAUTIOUS BUT THEY ALWAYS HAD AN EXIT PLAN, ALWAYS HAD A STRATEGY.

MY MOM LOST FRIENDS IN THE COCOANUT GROVE FIRE IN BOSTON SO WHENEVER WE WENT INTO A RESTAURANT, SHE ALWAYS POINTED OUT WHERE THE EXITS WERE TO MAKE SURE YOU COULD GET OUT.

CAN WE, AND I SAY WE, AGAIN, CAN WE START MOVING PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE SHOULD BE A BASIC LEVEL OF BECOME READY, BEING PREPARED TO DEAL WITH COVID IF WE WANT TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE THERE ARE FEWER INFECTIONS AND FEWER TRANSMISSIONS.

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW WHAT, I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD AM I WISH EVERYONE WOULD HAVE FOCUS ON BEING PREPARED FOR WHAT COULD HAPPEN AS ARE YOU DESCRIBING YOUR PARENTS.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS BEING PREPARED, WHY BECAUSE WE'RE NOT QUITE THERE YET, WE ARE ENJOYING STILL TO A DEGREE, IN THE ICU I DON'T HAVE ANY COVID PATIENTS HERE, IT IS AMAZING.

I STILL FEEL LIKE I'M IN A BIT OF A REPRIEVE, A LULL.

BUT THE NUMBERS ARE GOING UP, NEW VARIANTS.

THE COVID ALWAYS FEELS LIKE IT IS JUST ON THE HORIZON, COMING OVER THE HORIZON.

I HOPE IT DUFNT BUT IT MAY WELL, AND IT REALLY FEELS LIKE IT WILL AT SOME POINT.

WHAT CAN WE DO TO BE PREPARED.

THE KEY THING HERE IS THE MASK.

MASKS AND TESTING KITS AT HOME, GO A REALLY LONG WAY FOR EVERYONE TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND WHEN TO USE THEM, WE NEED TO GET A LOT BETTER AT KNOWING WHEN DO I NEED THE TEST BEFORE A GATHER.

AND WHAT OCCASIONS DO I NEED TO BE MASKING.

I WOULD SAY RIGHT NOW INDOOR IN A PUBLIC PLACE IS A GOOD TIME TO BE MASKING AGAIN.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THE TOOLS ARE THAT WE CAN PUT IN OUR COVID PREPAREDNESS COOL KIT.

BEFORE WE GET THERE, DR. PIERRE, YOU TALKED ABOUT INDICATORS WE SHOULD LOOK AT.

I'M A BIG FAN OF WATCHING THE WASTE WATER NUMBERS HERE IN THE "GREATER BOSTON" AREA BECAUSE I THAT I THINK IS A GREAT INDICATION OF HOW MANY INFECTIONS THERE ARE, RATHER THAN HOW MANY PEOPLE GOT TESTED OR DIDN'T GET TESTED.

SO IS THAT LIKE A KEY PLACE THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING.

AND WHERE ELSE SHOULD WE LOOK FOR GOOD INFORMATION TO LET US KNOW WHAT OUR ACTIONS SHOULD BE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT TRAJECTORY, THE RATES OF INCREASE THAT WE SEE IS IMPORTANT, AND WE HAVE SEEN THAT SLOWLY RISING.

NOT AS QUICKLY AS WITH OMICRON, THE ORIGINAL AND THE DELTA VARIANT BUT CERTAINLY WE ARE SEEING THAT STEADILY RISE AND AS YOU SAY, THERE IS NO VERSION OF TAKEHOME KIT FOR THE WASTE WATER.

WE ALL USE THE SAME SEPTIC SYSTEM.

SO THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT IS INCREASINGLY BECOMING REALLY A PILLAR OF OUR PUBLIC HEALTH EFFORTS OR EPIDEMIOLOGY EFFORTS IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND PATTERNS OF DISEASES, WHERE WE CAN EXPECT TO SEE INCREASES.

WE ALSO LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL, THAT IS STILL IMPORTANT WHEN WE LOOK AT COVID POSITIVITY.

FOR EXAMPLE HERE IN BOSTON, OUR NUMBERS HAD BEEN LOW, LESS THAN THREE PERCENT BUT NOW AS OF TODAY THEY HAVE KREPT UP AGAIN OR YESTERDAY TO 5.3 PERCENT COVID POSITIVITY, 5.3.

AND THE IMPORTANCE THERE IS THAT THERE ARE THRESHHOLDS AROUND THAT.

THIS PARTICULAR THRESHHOLD COVID POSITIVITY REACHING 5 PERCENT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAD USED PREVIOUSLY IN FEBRUARY TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS SAFE TO TAKE OFF THOSE MASKS IN INDOOR SPACE AND NOW IT IS ABOVE THOSE LEVELS, CONSISTENT WITH WHAT DR. SWAMY IS SAYING IT DOES SUGGEST WE SHOULD BE CHANGING OUR BEHAVIOR ACCORDINGLY.

THE OTHER THING THAT WE USE, THAT THANKFULLY THAT ARE LOW IS LOOKING AT THE PERCENT ANGST OF ICU BEDS THAT ARE OCCUPIED AND THE NUMBER OF HOSPITALIZATIONS THAT WE HAVE.

AND THANKFULLY, EVEN THOUGH OUR CASES ARE RISING, THOSE NUMBERS ARE LOW, SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW AND KEEP THOSE IN MIND.

>> DR. SWAMY, YOU MENTIONED TESTING AND HOME KITS.

AND I WAS A BIG ADVOCATE OF GETTING TESTS EARLY.

I FEEL IT WAS A FAILURE OF BOTH THE TRUMP AND BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THAT WE DIDN'T GET TESTS SOONER THAN WE DID.

WE CAN STILL, I JUST GOT MY SECOND ORDER FROM THE UNITED STATES POSTAL SERVICE.

I PUT THE ORDER IN I THINK LAST WEEK AND I GOT THEM YESTERDAY.

FOUR FREE TESTS FOR MY HOUSEHOLD, MY SECOND ORDER.

ARE, AND I ALSO KNOW THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE MANDATED TO REFUND WHAT YOU PURCHASE I THINK UP TO $12 A KIT.

I KNOW IT IS A PAIN IN THE NECK TO DO IT WITH THE PAPERWORK BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE FREE TESTS AVAILABLE STILL.

ARE YOU URGING FOLKS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT NOW WHILE WE'RE IN A QUOTE UNQUOTES LULL?

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

I WILL TELL YOU WHAT, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO I WAS HAVING SMALL INDOOR GATHERINGS WITH MY FRIENDS.

AND I WASN'T SO WORRIED ABOUT TESTING.

AND NOW WE'RE STARTING IT BACK UP AGAIN, HEY WE'RE GOING TO GET TOGETHER TO HANG OUT THIS WEEKEND.

LET'S, PEOPLE FROM FIVE DIFFERENT FAMILIES OR SOMETHING, NOT A BIG GATHERING.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO STILL BE ABLE TO LIVE AND DO THESE THINGS.

IT GIVES YOU A LARGE MEASURE OF PROTECTION TO SAY LET'S GET THE TEST AND LET'S USE THEM FOR THIS PURPOSE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT SPREADING IT TO EACH OTHER UNKNOWINGLY WHICH UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN IN MY COMMUNITY AS WELL.

IT IS REALLY SPREADING.

>> ST ALSO A GREAT TIME TO STILL GET MASKS.

WE DON'T HAVE TO FOCUS TOO MUCH ON THAT AS WE TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT.

I WANT TO TALK TO DR. ME HEIR ABOUT THE VACCINATIONS AND THE BOOSTERS.

BECAUSE PEOPLE I KNOW ARE TRYING NOT TO BE TRYING NOT TO PRACTICE MEDICINE WITHOUT ANY LICENSES, RIGHT.

BUT WE ARE SORT OF TRYING TO SORT THROUGH WHAT WE ARE LIKE I GOT THE JOHNSON & JOHNSON.

AND THEN I GOT THE MODERNA BOOSTER IN THE FALL.

I'M 60 YEARS OLD, I HAVE ASTHMA.

I KNOW I'M GOING TO TALK TO MY DOCTOR BUT DO I WANT TO GET IT NOW, SHOULD I WAIT TO SEE IF THE WASTE WATER NUMBERS GO UP.

IS THERE A-- JUST TALKING TO YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD GET THE BOOSTER IF YOU QUALIFY THE BEST ROUTE?

>> I CERTAINLY THING IT'S SOMETHING WE REFER BACK TO AND WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATION STRKS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE SPEAKING TO SOMEONE THAT KNOWS YOUR MEDICAL HISTORY, KNOWS WHAT YOUR RISK IS.

AND ALSO SOMEONE WHO YOU SPEAK TO ABOUT WHAT OTHER RISK BEHAVIORS YOU MIGHT BE ENGAGING IN BECAUSE THAT IS ALSO IMPORTANT.

MAYBES NO AS IMPORTANT AS YOUR UNDERLYING RISK CONDITIONS BUT IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT WHEN ARE YOU THINK BEING BOOSTERS.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS A DIFFICULT TIME.

WITH THE UNCERTAINTY WHERE WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH THE NUMBERS IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH SUCCESSIVE WAVES OF INFORMATION ON BOOSTING AND ITS EFFICACY.

YOU KNOW, I THINK MANY PEOPLE ARE NOW I THINK TRYING TO SPLIT FROM WHAT WE HAVE BEEN HEARING IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FDA MAY SAY IT'S OKAY TO DO.

WE WANT TO TAKE A CRITICAL LENS TO THIS AND THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO DO WITH THESE VACCINES AND BOOSTERS, REALLY WANTING TO REDUCE THE RISK OF SEVERE CONSEQUENCES INCLUDING HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATH.

AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT WHAT OUR END GOAL IS WHEN WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS.

AND WHAT TIME OF YEAR AND WHAT MAKES SENSE TO DO, I THINK IT DOES MAKE SENSE TO REACH OUT TO YOUR DOCTOR, SOMEONE WHO HAS A LOT OF INTIMATE INFORMATION AND WHERE YOUR RISK LIES.

>> HERE IS, MY GOSH, PEOPLE MAKE ME CRAZY PART OF THE SEGMENT HERE.

I WAS REMINDED CERTAINLY OF A CONVERSATION THAT DONALD TRUMP, THEN PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP HAD WITH BOB WOODWARD AROUND THE BOOK THAT CAME OUT.

AND IN THE CONVERSATION, TRUMP WAS EXPRESSING HOW MUCH MORE SEVERE COVID WAS THAN HE WAS TELLING PEOPLE.

BUT I PART I WANT TO TALK ABOUT WAS HE WAS EXPRESSING SURPRISE TO WOODWARD ABOUT THE FLU NUMBERS, THAT THIS WAS NEWS TO DONALD TRUMP, AND FRANKLY NEWS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, I'M NOT TAKING A JAB AT TRUMP ON THIS POINT.

THAT YOU KNOW, ANYWHERE BETWEEN 20 AND 65,000 PEOPLE DIE IN THE UNITED STATES EVERY YEAR FROM THE FLU OR FLU-RELATED COMPLICATIONS BASED ON HOW SERIOUS THE FLU IS OR WHICH HAVE HAD AN EFFECTIVE VACCINE FOR I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DECADES WE'VE HAD IT.

WE HAVE AN ANTIVIRAL TREATMENT.

MANY PEOPLE STILL DON'T THINK THEY HAVE THE FLU BECAUSE THEY'RE ASYMPTOMATIC AND THEY MAY BE CONTAGIOUS.

AND OUR VACCINATION RATES FOR THE FLU, AREN'T REALLY THAT HIGH AS WOULD YOU EXPECT WITH ALL THIS GREAT SCIENCE WE HAVE.

IF WE CAN'T REALLY GET OUR BRAIN AROUND HOW TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM THE FLU WITH ALL THIS HISTORY, WHAT, HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST COVID WHICH WE'RE STILL GETTING OUR FEET UNDER AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO LIVE WITH?

>> IT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

AND IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

WE HAVE SEEN THE DEVASTATING EFFECTS OF INFLUENZA EVERY WINTER, I SEE IT ALL THE TIME IT IS CAT STROPHIC AND NOT AS SIMPLE AS SAYING OH, THAT PERSON WAS HIGH RISK, NOT AT ALL.

BUT THE THING THAT IS DIFFERENT WITH CORONAVIRUS, WITH COVID IS THAT A LOT MORE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TOUCHED DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY BY THIS IN A VERY SERIOUS WAY.

BECAUSE IT IS JUST SO MUCH MORE DEADLY.

AND THERE ARE DIFFERENCES HERE THAT REALLY IMPORTANT.

FIRST OF ALL, ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE SHOULD GET A FLU SHOT EVERY YEAR T REALLY SAVES LIVES.

AND I MEAN I'M NEVER GOING TO MISS THAT.

BUT WITH CORONAVIRUS IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS PRESCRIPTION TREATMENTS YOU CAN GET WHEN YOU HAVE CORONAVIRUS IF ARE YOU IN ANYWAY HIGHER RISK, YOU SHOULD TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR THE SECOND YOU TEST POSITIVE BECAUSE THAT CAN MAKE A DRAMATIC DIFFERENCE IT IS AVAILABLE ACROSS THE STATE NOW IN WALGREEN'S, CVS, YOU CAN FIND IT AND THAT GOES A REALLY LONG WAY.

AND THAT IS PROFOUNDLY DIFFERENT, THE TREATMENTS THAT WE HAVE FOR CORONAVIRUS ARE DIFFERENT.

THEY DO DO MORE, WE ARE LEARNING MORE AND MORE AND I THINK WE WILL HAVE A LOT MORE IN OUR ARSENAL THAN JUST VACCINATIONS, NOT TO DOWNPLAY THAT, PLEASE, NOT TO DOWNPLAY THAT CONDITION AT ALL.

BUT THIS IS PROBABLY THE WAY FORWARD.

IT WILL BE A SYNERGY.

I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE US TO TAKE THERE SERIOUSLY.

THE MASKS WORK FOR ALL RESPIRATORY DISEASES THEY ARE REALLY BENEFICIAL AND I HOPE THAT WE AS A SOCIETY CAN LEARN FROM THIS COLLECTIVELY AND MOVE FORWARD BUT CERTAINLY CONCERNING HOW MUCH SUEDOR SCIENCE, DS MISINFORMATION SOWT THERE.

>> DR. PIERRE I WILL GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE THE PITCH IF ARE YOU PUTTING OFFER THE DOCTOR'S APPOINTMENT OR TEST YOU NEED DONE, TIME TO DO IT NOW, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY ONE OF THE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS IS TO MAKE SURE ARE YOU TAKING CARE OF YOUR JUND LYING HEALTH, MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR SCREENING.

THAT YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO IMPROVE YOUR HEALTH.

THAT IS GOING TO PUT NEW GOOD STED FOR SO MANY THINGS INCLUDING COVID.

AND THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME TO DO IT THE WEATHER IS GREAT, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A GOOD SUMMER.

KEEP YOURSELF HEALTHY AND LEARN THE TIPS ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING TO MAKE SURE WE CAN CONTINUE TO ENJOY OUR FAMILIES.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME, WE APPRECIATE YOUR EXPERTISE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

WITH PUNISHMENTS PILING UP FOR RUSSIA OVER THE ATROCITIES THEY'RE COMMITTING IN UKRAINE, INCLUDING, TODAY, THEIR SUSPENSION FROM THE U.N. HUMAN RIGHTS COUNCIL, THE BOSTON ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION IS ADDING TO THE LIST AS WELL, BANNING ANY ATHLETES FROM RUSSIA AND BELARUS WHO CURRENTLY LIVE THERE, FROM RUNNING THIS YEAR'S MARATHON.

AND ANYONE FROM THOSE COUNTRIES WHO DOESN'T LIVE THERE CAN RUN, BUT NOT UNDER THOSE NATION'S FLAGS.

B.A.A.

PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

TOM GRILK SAID IN A STATEMENT: "RUNNING IS A GLOBAL SPORT, AND AS SUCH, WE MUST DO WHAT WE CAN TO SHOW OUR SUPPORT TO THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE."

JOINING ME NOW IS SPORTS JOURNALIST SHIRA SPRINGER, JOURNALIST AND LECTURER, AT MIT SLOAN AND BOSTON UNIVERSITY AND DAN FITZGERALD, HEAD COACH AND CO-FOUNDER OF HEARTBREAK HILL RUNNING SOCIETY JOIN ME NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING ME, SHIRRA I WANT TO START WITH YOU FIRST.

AND JUST ASK WHAT YOUR TAKE IS ON THE BAA DECISION.

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT THEY ARE DOING AS BROOK SAID, SHOWING SUPPORTS FOR UKRAINE.

ST PRIMARILY I WOULD SAY A SYMBOLIC GESTURE BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS LAST YEAR, I THINK IT WAS AROUND 35 RUSSIANS WHO COMPETED IN THE BOSTON MARATHON.

SO WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT LARGE NUMBERS.

WE ARE ALSO NOT TALKING ABOUT ANY PROFESSIONAL OR ELITE ATHLETES.

THERE ARE NO RUSSIAN ATHLETES FROM, WHO WILL BE COMPETING IN EITHER THE MARATHON, THE 5K OR THE INVITATIONAL MILE.

SO LARGELY A SYMBOLIC GESTURE BUT I THINK AN IMPORTANT SYMBOLIC GESTURE PARTICULARLY GIVEN PUTIN'S DESIRE TO USE SPORTS AS A WAY OF HOE CASING AND SHOWING NATIONAL MIGHT AND YOU KNOW, HE REALLY ENJOYS PUTTING HIS ATHLETES, THOSE RUSSIAN ATHLETES OUT THERE TO SHOW THE POWER AND MIGHT OF HIS COUNTRY.

SO AN IMPORTANT SYMBOLIC GESTURE BUT A SYMBOLIC GESTURE NONE THE LESS.

>> AND DAN FITZGERALD YOUR TAKE.

>> I AGREE IT IS MOSTLY SYMBOLIC BUT I THINK ABOUT IT FROM AN ATHLETE'S PERSPECTIVE.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE WHEN AN ATHLETE TRAINS AND DOESN'T GET TO COMPETE IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE OUTSIDE OF THEIR CONTROL.

YOU KNOW, ON THE OTHER HAND ON THE SCALE OF THE ATROCITIES, IS A STROWNDING AND UNIMAGINABLE AND ANYTHING THAT CAN MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S AWARENESS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, THROUGH ANY COMMUNITY I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK SPORTS IN PARTICULAR THESE DAYS IS FEELING MORE RESPONSIBILITY TO STEP UP AND SPEAK OUT IN THESE THINGS.

AND YOU KNOW, I'M PROUD TO THAT THEY ARE DOING THAT.

RUNS THE BOSTON MARATHON IS A PRIVILEGE AND IT IS A SYMBOL OF UNITE-- UNITY, A SYMBOL OF HEALING T IS A SUBJECT OF A TERRORIST ATTACK, TO STAND ON THE RIGHT OF HUMAN RIGHTS IS IMPORTANT.

>> SO THE CHALLENGE OF THESE SORTS OF ACTIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE RIGHT OFF OF THE WINTER OLYMPICS WHERE THERE WAS MUCH PROTEST AND CONCERN ABOUT THE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN CHINA AND THE, YOU KNOW, EMBRACE OF THE WORLD OF CHINA DURING THE OLYMPICS AND WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELD THERE OR NOT, WE COME TO THIS NOW.

AND THERE ARE IS FIVE COUNTRIES THAT TOP THE WORST COUNTRIES FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN LIEU OF LAW IN 2021.

EGYPT, SYRIA, YEMEN, CHINA AND IRAN.

THEY ARE NOT, NONE OF THOSE ATHLETES ARE BANNED FROM PARTICIPATING IN THE BAA.

SHOULD THEY BE?

IS THIS A ROUTE, A PATH THAT WE WANT TO START TAKING WHEN IT COMES TO EVENTS LIKE THIS?

SHIRA?

>> WELL I THINK I'M GOING TO REFER BACK TO WHAT DAN SAID YOU FEEL FOR THE ATHLETES, I MYSELF AM ALSO A MARATHONER SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS LIKE TO PUT IN THOSE MILES AND TRAIN FOR AN EVENT LIKE THIS, SOMETHING YOU HAVE ON YOUR CALENDER, BASICALLY A YEAR IN ADVANCE WHEN YOU ARE THINK BEING RUNNING A BIG MAJOR MARATHON LIKES BOSTON.

AND SO I THINK YOU DON'T WANT TO GO DOWN THAT SLIPPERY SLOPE WITH THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES.

WE ARE IN A VERY, VERY UNIQUE MOMENTS WITH UKRAINE AND THE WAR, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

AND ALSO THE AGGRESSION OF PUTIN AND HIS LOVE OF SPORTS.

AND HIS RUSE OF SPORTS AS A SYMBOL FOR HIS COUNTRY AND WHAT IT CAN ACCOMPLISH.

SO I THINK WE SHOULD NOT DO A BLANKET BANFF ATHLETES.

WE SHOULD TAKE THIS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

THIS IS THE MOMENTS TO SHOW SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE.

YES, THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES, HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES, WITH ALL THE COUNTRIES YOU MENTIONED, THIS PERPETUALLY COMES UP IN SPORT, BY THE WAY, AND WE'RE GOING TO FACE IT AGAIN WITH THE WORLD CUP LATER THIS YEAR, IN QATAR.

SO YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ISSUES WE HAVE TO DEAL I THINK WITH ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS RATHER THAN SAY OH, IF WE ARE DOING RUSSIA, THEN WE NEED TO DO IRAN AND WE NEED TO DO THIS COUNTRY AND WE NEED TO DO THAT COUNTRY.

>> BUT I WOULD PUSH BACK HERE AND SAY NO ONE IS DISAGREES THAT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN UKRAINE IS BEYOND AWFUL.

BUT SOME ONE MIGHT SAY WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN CHINA FOR DECADES IS ALSO AWFUL OR SOMEONE MIGHT SAY WITH THE WAR IN SYRIA, AND THE TRAUMA THAT THEY HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH, YEMEN IN AMERICA'S TREATMENT, I MEAN WHERE IS THE LINE S IT JUST BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING NOW AND THERE'S A FEAR OF RUSSIA EXPANDING THEIR AGGRESSIONS?

OR IS IT JUST THE PUBLIC OPINION AND SENTIMENTS SEEMS TO BE AS IT SHOULD BE, SUPPORTING UKRAINE?

>> WELL, WE'RE TWO WEEKS, YOU KNOW, ALMOST, WE'RE LESS THAN TWO WEEKS OUT FROM THE MARATHON.

AT THIS POINT.

SO I THINK FIRST OF ALL, THE PRACTICALITY OF DOING OTHER BANS AND SORT OF MORE A LARGER BLANKET BAN IS SIMPLY, IT'S IMPRACTICAL STEP ONE.

THIS I THINK SAY DISCUSSION QUITE FRANKLY THAT THE INTERNATIONAL SPORTS COMMUNITY HAS TO HAVE.

AND ANOTHER POINT IN TIME.

CAN I CERTAINLY SEE AND THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE THIS DISCUSSION.

YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE AS A SPORTS COMMUNITIES, AS A GLOBAL SPORTS COMMUNITIES ACROSS NOT JUST THE RUNNING COMMUNITY BUT ALL SPORTS COMMUNITIES INCLUDE THE INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE IN THIS, AND FIFA WHICH AGAIN WAS THE WORLD CUP, HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR POLICY IS.

AND QUITED FRANKLY IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE SOMETHING ALONG THE LINE OF A POLICY FOR WHEN YOU HAVE COUNTRIES WHO ARE COMMITTING HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION, HOW DOES THAT IMPACT ATHLETES?

AND DOES IT IMPACT THE AVERAGE EVERY DAY ATHLETE?

THAT IS WHO WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT HERE, RIGHT.

WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.

SO IN THIS CASE WITH THE BOSTON MARATHON.

SO I THINK THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS WE NEED TO ANSWER.

DOES IT IMPACT THE AVERAGE EVERY DAY ATHLETE?

DO WE START PUTTING BANS ON PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.

I CAN SEE IN THE FUTURE THE POTENTIAL FOR BANS ON PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.

THE BANS ON COUNTRIES FROM COMPETING.

IF YOU RECALL DURING APARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA, SOUTH AFRICA WAS NOT ALLOWED TO COMPETE IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES SO I THINK THERE IS PRECEDENT THERE AND THAT MAY BE IN SOME INSTANCES WHERE THINGS MAY GO.

>> SO DAN OF COURSE THE CHALLENGE HERE OBVIOUSLY THE ATHLETES BOTH PROFESSIONAL AND THE AMATEURS IS HEARTBREAKING WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT UP IN THE POLITICS AND CAN'T COMPETE.

I THINK WE'VE ALL EXPRESSED THAT.

AND AT THE SAME TIME AS SOMEONE WHO LOVES WATCHING SPORTS AND LOVES WATCHING YOU KNOW THE OLYMPICS, WHEN COUNTRIES COME TOGETHER, I MEAN I VIVIDLY RECALL WHEN THE KOREAS, NORTH KOREA AND SOUTH KOREA WALKED IN TOGETHER AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES YEARS AGO.

AND THE ABILITY THAT SPORTS HAVE TO UNIFY US, IT SOMETIMES SEEMS TO ME LIKE THIS MAYBE DOESN'T HELP US TO SEE EACH OTHER AS HUMANS AND THE JOY OF COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER.

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT IS AN INTERESTING POINTS.

SPORTS DO UNITE.

I THINK THERE IS SOME, THERE ARE LINES, YOU KNOW, WITH THE ODD COUNTRIES, WITH HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE HUMAN RIGHTS, STANDS IN THE IMMEDIATE TERM BUT THERE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, COULD YOU MAKE THAT LIST VERY LONG F WE OPEN THE SCOPE OF WHAT THE HUMAN RIGHT AS BEUSES ARE.

AND WE SHOULDN'T LOOK BEYOND OURSELVES TO START AND THINGS THAT WE HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN.

I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT, IN THIS SCALE ALIGN OF THIS KIND OF DIRECT AGGRESSION AND A WAR THAT IS COMPLETELY A SIM ET CETERA KAL IN TERMS OF THE TWO SIDES AND THEIR CAPACITIES, AND COMPLETELY OUT OF KNOW WHERE, YOU KNOW T IS JUST AN ACT MUCH AGGRESSION AND ATROCITY THAT I THINK CROSSES A LINE.

SO YES, SPORTS ARE UNIFYING, YES, WE LOVE SEEING ALL OF THE NATIONS COMPETE IN THE OLYMPICS.

IN THE MARATHON MAJORS AND AGAIN LIKE I SAID EARLIER, I JUST THINK IT IS A PRIVILEGE TO BE A PART OF THAT AND THERE NEED TO BE LINES AND NOT TO ABSOLVE EVERYBODY OF ALL OF THE ATROCITIES THROUGH HISTORY BUT THERE ALSO NEEDS TO BE, I THINK, A WILLINGNESS TO FORGIVE AND MOVE ON AS WELL WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE SAME THINGS OF SANCTIONS AND REMOVAL OF SANCTIONS AS IT APPLIES TO THE ECONOMY, IT CAN APPLY TO SPORTS.

IN THE CURRENT MOMENT I ABSOLUTELY THINK IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> SHIRRA I'M STRUCK BY THE MEMORIES OF THE TERRORIST ATTACK OF THE BOSTON MARATHON BOMBING AND I JUSTFUL VIVIDLY CHILDREN FROM SYRIA SENDING MESSAGES TO BOSTON, OVER WHATEVER THE SOCIAL MEDIA WAS AT THE TIME.

THEY THEMSELVES GOING THROUGH THIS TERRIBLE CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA YET REACHING OUT.

AND THE END OF THE WORLD OF THE NEW YORK YANKERREES FANS SINGING SWEET CAROLINE WHICH YOU KNOW, REALLY BROUGHT HOME THE UNITY AND PUTTING THINGS ASIDE IS CERTAINLY NOT AS SERIOUS AS OTHER THINGS BUT IT ALWAYS STAYED WITH ME.

IT SEEMS THAT THAT SENSITIVITY ALSO INFORMED THIS DECISION TO DO THAT, TO BE UNIFIED AND SHOW SUPPORT FOR UKRAINIANS.

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THERE IS THIS DESIRE TO SHOW UP AS ONE RUNNING COMMUNITY.

I THINK DAN CAN SPEAK TO THIS AS WELL BUT I KNOW AS A RUNNER, IT IS A VERY CLOSE KNIT, VERY PASSIONATE COMMUNITIES.

AND COMMUNITY IS THE OPERATIVE WORD.

IT IS, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA, IF YOU ARE EVEN RUNNING ALONG THE BOSTON MARATHON COURSE ON ANY GIVEN WEEKEND DURING THE WINTER, THERE IS A SENSE OF COMMUNITY AND UNITY.

AND I THINK IT WAS ALL DONE IN THAT SPIRIT.

AND AGAIN TO GO BACK TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, THIS IS MORE OF A SYMBOLIC GESTURE AT THIS POINT.

IF IS TO SHOW SUPPORT.

AND THEN YOU KNOW, THE OTHER FIVE COUNTRIES AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE POLITICAL STATEMENTS AND SANCTIONS PERHAPS IN AMONG INTERNATIONAL ATZ LETTIC FEDERATIONS THAT CAN COME DOWN ITS LINE AND MAYBE NEED TO BE REEVALUATED BUT I THINK THE CONTEXT OF THIS IS MORE AS SYMBOLIC GESTURE, UKRAINE, WE HAVE YOUR BACK.

AND I THINK IT WAS ALSO CLEAR IN THE WAY IN WHICH THEY STRUKS TURED THE POLICY AS WELL, RIGHT, SO UKRAINIANS WHO WERE ENTERED AND CAN'T COMPETE, THEY WILL EITHER GET A FULL REFUND OR THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DEFER TO NEXT YEAR.

I KNOW IT SEEMS LIKE A SMALL THING BUT THAT'S IMPORTANT.

THIS IS ALL DESIGNED TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF UKRAINE, UKRAINIAN RUNNERS.

AND TO SAY YOU KNOW, LISTEN, WE OPPOSE WHAT RUSSIA IS DOING.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT IS THE AMATEUR RUNNERS WHO ARE GOING TO PAY THE PRICE.

>> DAN DA, I HAVE SEEN SHIRA RUNNING LIKE A MANIAC-- AT A RED LIGHTS STAYING WARM BEFORE SHE CROSSED IN FRONT OF MY CAR.

AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO I DON'T NECESSARILY LIKE HERE, AND THAT I DO LIKE, I DO LIKE YOU DAN WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT RUNNING THEY TALK ABOUT HOW HELPFUL THEY ARE TO OTHER PEOPLE.

I THOUGHT YOU SHOULD BRING THAT INTO YOUR PERSONAL LIFE AS A RUNNER.

BUT THE COMMUNITY OF RUNNERS IS A REAL THINGS, RIGHT.

AND WE SHOULDN'T JUST KIND OF GLOSS OVER THAT, THAT THIS IS A GESTURE BUT A MEANINGFUL ONE.

>> IT IS, ABSOLUTELY.

I HAVE ACTUALLY SAT WITH, A RUNNING COACH FROM MOSCOW FOR LUNCH AT AN INTERNATIONAL COACH TRAINING SESSION.

AND YOU KNOW I THINK WHEN I JUST THINK ABOUT BEING A PERSON AND RUNNING AROUND ON ITS MARATHON COURSE RIGHT NOW, WHEN I SEE THE UKRAINIAN FLAGS THEY GIVE ME HOPE.

IT IS AN IMPORTANT SYMBOL TO SEE IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IT'S-- IT'S ONE THAT THE RUNNING COMMUNITY T IS JUST A COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO ENJOY THESE INTERNATIONAL RACES, WHO FEEL THE SAME THINGS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FEELING.

AND I DO ALSO FEEL EMPATHY FOR RUSSIAN, MY RUSSIAN FRIENDS WHO ARE HERE, WHO ARE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING WHO FEEL THE PAIN OF WHAT IS GOING ON ALSO, AND ALSO FEEL SOME BLOWBACK.

AND MAYBE SOME NOT RESPONSIBILITY ISN'T QUITE THE RIGHT WORD.

BUT A CONFLICT AND A UNHAPPINESS AS WELL.

>> THERE DEFINITELY IS HUMANITY OF EVERY ONE WHO IS UNITED.

SHIRA SPRINGER, DAN FITZGERALD, I THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING PLEA, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANK YOU TOO.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

FOR TALKING POLITI