♪ ♪ ♪ SMOATS ♪ >> Rooney: I'M EMILY ROONEY.

WELCOME TO "BEAT THE PRESS."

OUR TOPICS: IT'S RARE WHEN "60 MINUTES" FACES CRITICISM, BUT ONE STORY HAS UNLEASHED A BACKLASH; THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LEAKED LIKE A SIEVE, BUT THINGS HAVE DRIED UP FOR THIRSTY REPORTERS UNDER BIDEN'S WATCH; AND THE NEW FOX LATE NIGHT SHOW "GUTFELD!"

DEBUTED-- AND WELL, THE REVIEWS ARE IN, TOO.

PLUS, OUR PANEL'S RANTS AND RAVES OF THE WEEK.

JOINING ME ARE GBH EXECUTIVE PRODUCER DAN LOTHIAN, JOANNA WEISS OF NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY, ADAM REILLY OF GBH NEWS, AND JON KELLER OF WBZ NEWS.

>>> FIRST UP, USUALLY WHEN THE MEDIA ACCUSES A PUBLIC FIGURE OF CORRUPTION, THEY GIVE THE ACCUSED EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

THAT'S TO BE FAIR AND ALSO BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T, YOUR REPORTING MIGHT NOT HOLD UP.

BUT RECENTLY, "60 MINUTES" EITHER FORGOT OR IGNORED THAT BASIC RULE, AND NOW THEY'RE PAYING A PRICE.

ADAM HAS MORE.

>> Reporter: THE BIG TAKEAWAY FROM "60 MINUTES'" STORY ON FLORIDA'S COVID VACCINE ROLLOUT IS THAT THE SYSTEM DIDN'T WORK-- SPECIFICALLY, WHILE WEALTHY WHITE PEOPLE GOT SHOTS EARLY, POOR PEOPLE OF COLOR HAD TO WAIT.

>> OF THE MORE THAN 160,000 RESIDENTS IN PALM BEACH COUNTY WHO'VE BEEN VACCINATED, ONLY 2% WERE BLACK AND 3% HISPANIC.

>> Reporter: BUT THE STORY GOES FURTHER, SAYING REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR RON DESANTIS PICKING PUBLIX TO VACCINATE SENIORS.

AT ONE POINT, SHARYN ALFONSI CONFRONTS DESANTIS, SAYING HE PICKED PUBLIX BECAUSE THE CHAIN GAVE HIM LOTS OF MONEY.

>> THE CRITICISM IS THAT IT'S PAY-TO-PLAY, GOVERNOR.

>> IT'S WRONG, IT'S WRONG.

IT'S A FAKE NARRATIVE.

>> Reporter: IN THE STORY, THAT TRUMPIAN DEFENSE SEEMS LAME.

BUT, AS IT TURNS OUT, DESANTIS GAVE A LENGTHY, RATHER CONVINCING REBUTTAL, MOST OF WHICH "60 MINUTES" EDITED OUT.

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE FIRST PHARMACIES THAT HAD IT WERE CVS AND WALGREENS, AND THEY HAD A LONG-TERM CARE MISSION.

WE WANTED TO GET IT INTO OTHER COMMUNITIES MORE, SO WE REACHED OUT TO OTHER RETAIL PHARMACIES-- PUBLIX, WALMART.

I ACTUALLY SHOWED UP THAT WEEKEND AND TALKED TO SENIORS ACROSS FOUR DIFFERENT PUBLIX.

HOW WAS THE EXPERIENCE?

IS THIS GOOD?

DO YOU THINK IT'S THE WAY TO GO?

AND IT WAS 100% POSITIVE, SO WE EXPANDED IT.

>> Reporter: NOW, DESANTIS IS PUSHING BACK, CASTING HIMSELF AS THE VICTIM OF A FAILED MEDIA HIT JOB.

>> THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN FACTS.

IT WAS A POLITICAL NARRATIVE DONE WITH MALICIOUS INTENT.

>> Reporter: EVEN SOME FLORIDA DEMOCRATS ARE IRATE, INCLUDING ONE WHO WARNED THE STORY WAS BS BEFORE THE PIECE AIRED.

AMONG MEDIA CRITICS, THERE'S A GROWING CONSENSUS THE SHOW SCREWED UP.

STILL, "60 MINUTES" STANDS BY ITS REPORT, SAYING THEY "REPORTED THE FACTS," JUST NOT ALL OF THEM.

>> Rooney: WELL, DIEM, THAT'S DIEM, THAT'S ADAM, THAT'S RIGHT.

FEDERAL PROGRAM, THE GOVERNOR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

MY QUESTION TO YOU AND I GUESS TO THE REST OF THE PANELISTS, DID THEY CONVINCE YOU THAT THERE WAS A PAY TO PLAY?

HE TOOK $100,000 FROM PUBLIX AS A GAIN CONTRIBUTION AND HE GAVE THEM FAVORITISM, I DON'T KNOW.

ONE OTHER THING, IF DESANTIS HAD GIVEN 60 MINUTES AN INTERVIEW I DON'T THINK WE WOULD BE IN THIS PICKLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> YOU MAY BE RIGHT ABOUT THIS.

BUT I WOULD URGE LISTENERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS STORY, GO CHECK, WHAT DESANTIS TOLD THE REPORTER IN THAT TO MY MIND OVERLY STAGEY PRESS CONFERENCE CONFRONTATION.

YOU REALLY NEED TO SEE THE FULL THING SIDE BY SIDE TO GET A SENSE OF JUST HOW MUCH THEY LEFT OUT.

I CAN TELL YOU, THEY DIDN'T CONVINCE ME THAT THERE WAS A PAY TO PLAY WHICH WAS APPARENTLY THE CONCLUSION THEY HAD COME TO, AND THEN WANTED TO CONFRONT HIM WITH.

IT IS WORTHWHILE NOTING SURE, PUBLIX HAD GIVEN DESANTIS MONEY.

BUT BACK WHEN MY PARENTS LIVED IN FLORIDA, I REMEMBER GOING DOWN THERE, PUBLIX WAS EVERYWHERE.

NOW AS 60 MINUTES POINTS OUT THERE ARE MANY RESIDENTS OF COLOR HAVE HAVE TROUBLE ACCESSING PUBLIX.

AND THE BIGGER STORY THAT 60 MINUTES COULD HAVE TOLD IS VERY VALID, WHAT ARE THE FACTORS THAT LEAD TO THESE RACIAL AND CLASS DISPARITIES WHEN IT COMES TO THE VACCINE ROLLOUT, IT IS NOT THE STORY THEY WANT TO TELL.

ONE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ADD, DIDN'T HAVE ON CAMERA INTERVIEWS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DIDN'T GET AN ON CAMERA INTERVIEW, IT'S STILL EXCULPATORY, YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

>> EMILY, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ANY DIFFERENT HAD THEY GOTTEN THE INTERVIEW.

I THINK THIS IS A CASE OF, THEY CAME UP WITH THE STORY THEY WANTED IT TO BE AND THEY FIT THE FACTS BE INTO THE STORY.

I WAS WARNING THEM AGAINST FALLING IN LOVE WITH THEIR STORY.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU SIT AROUND IN EDITORIAL ROOMS AND YOU COME UP WITH BASED ON RESEARCH INFORMATION OR WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON PAPER AND YOU SAY THIS IS THE STORY WE'RE GOING TO GET.

OFTENTIMES THAT IS THE STORY THAT YOU FIND OUT THERE BUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS LET THE FACTS DRIVE YOU OR DIRECT YOU TO THE REAL STORY.

AND I THINK IN THIS CASE THEY FELL SO IN LOVE WITH THIS STORY THAT THEY SAID WHETHER WE HAVE IT OR NOT WE HAVE TO MAKE THIS LARGE FOOT FIT INTO A VERY SMALL SHOE.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT COMPLETELY.

AND I'D LOVE TO THINK ABOUT THIS IN CONTEXT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE PARTICULARLY ON FOX NEWS ARE CRITIQUING CBS NEWS AND SAYING THIS IS A SIGN OF LIBERAL BIAS.

IT IS CERTAINLY NARRATIVE BIAS.

I CAN SEE WHY SOME ARE SAYING IT IS LIBERAL BIAS.

BUT IN THE MEDIA AT LARGE NOW CONFLICT BIAS WHEN IT COMES TO COVID, PARTICULARLY THE VACCINE ROLLOUT.

EVERY STATE IS DOING IT DIFFERENTLY.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO SORT OUT WHAT THE RIGHT APPROACH WAS.

WHO'S DOING BETTER, WHO'S DOING WORSE CHANGES EVERY MONTH.

I THINK THERE IS A REAL IMPULSE TO FIGURE OUT, WHO IS NOT JUST DOING IT RIGHT OR WRONG BUT WHO IS BLAMING SOMEBODY.

IN A STORY MOVING AND DEVELOPING SO QUICKLY IT IS VERY EASY TO GET CAUGHT UP IN THE BLAME-GAME.

>> WELL EXOOM FIRST OF, FULL DISCLOSURE, WBC MY EMPLOYER IS OWNED AND OPERATED BY CBS.

CRITICISM OF THE PAY TO PLAY IMPLICATION IT WAS EXPLICIT, IT WASN'T CAN IMPLIED, IT IS FAIR.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO SMEAR SOMEONE BY GIT BY ASSOCIATION OR PAY TO PLAY, WHICH IS ABOUT AS SERIOUS OFFENSE A PUBLIC OFFICIAL ENGAGES IN, YOU BETTER HAVE THE FACTS RIGHT OR LEAVE IT OUT.

ADAM PICKED UP ON THE MAIN THRUST OF HIS STORY IN HIS REPORT, WHICH IS NEXT TO THE WORDS SYSTEMIC RACISM THERE IS A PICTURE OF HOW FLORIDA HANDLED IT.

WHEN THEY ACCOUNT FOR HALF OF THE POPULATION OF THAT COUNTY, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

THAT STORY SHOULDN'T BE OVERWHELMED BY THE JUSTIFIABLE BACKLASH AGAINST 60 MINUTES.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

RON DESANTIS DUCKED AN INTERVIEW WITH 60 MINUTES.

>> Rooney: YES HE DID.

>> A NUMBER OF OTHER OFFICIALS DID, TOO.

NOT ALL DEMOCRATIC OFFICIALS ARE SIDING WITH DESANTIS.

AND DESANTIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A WORM.

AND THAT HAS SHOWN ITSELF IN THE WAY HE'S HANDLED THE WHOLE CORONAVIRUS THINGS.

THAT DOESN'T JUSTIFY THE JOURNALISTIC ERROR THAT 60 MINUTES MADE BUT IT IS PART OF THE OVERALL -- >> Rooney: THEY'RE NOT ADMITTING ANY KIND OF JOURNALISTIC ERRORS, WE SENSE THAT, DAN KRENSHAW SENSES IT.

SO FAR THEY'RE STICKING BY THEIR STORY.

>> THE TYPE OF THE POLITICIAN THAT DESANTIS IS, CAN HOW HE WANTS TO BE A TRUMP 2.0 TYPE OF FIGURE, BACK IN HIS GOVERNORSHIP BACK DOWN THE ROAD WHEN HE'S SEEKING THE PRESIDENCY, HE WENT TOE TO TOE WITH THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND THEY FAILED.

THE POINTS ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM ARE REALLY IMPORTANT BUT AGAIN I WOULD SAY IF YOU ARE WATCHING AT HOME WANT TO BE SURE YOU'RE FULLY INFORMED BY THIS, LOOK AT THE THINGS SIDE BY SIDE.

YOU WANT YOUR STORY TO HOLD UP SO YOU WANT TO GIVE THE PERSON YOU'RE ACCUSING EVERY POSSIBLE CHANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES SO SOMETHING LIKE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN.

>> Rooney: FOR FOUR YEARS, THE NEWS MEDIA LIVED OFF A STEADY STREAM OF SPICY AND SCANDALOUS ANTICS COMING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, MUCH OF WHICH WAS INTENTIONALLY LEAKED TO THE PRESS.

NOW, THOUGH, THE "WASHINGTON POST" AND OTHER NEWS OUTLETS ARE NOTING THERE HASN'T BEEN A SINGLE LEAK-- TITILLATING OR OTHERWISE-- OUT OF THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE, LEAVING THE MEDIA THIRSTY FOR SOMETHING.

THE LEAKS OUT OF THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE WERE A STEADY DRIP, DRIP, DRIP, RANGING FROM PERSONAL GOSSIP LIKE THE SEXUAL TRAVAILS OF STAFFERS HOPE HICKS AND ROB PORTER, TO WEST WING INFIGHTING, WHERE EVERYONE SEEMED READY TO KNEECAP THEIR RIVALS.

>> REINCE PRIEBUS WAS ESSENTIALLY PUBLICLY HUMILIATED BY CURRENT WHITE HOUSE STAFF.

>> Rooney: AND THERE WAS MORE, INCLUDING THAT "NEW YORK TIMES" OP-ED FROM AN ANONYMOUS INSIDER WHO WROTE: >> "TRUMP ENGAGES IN REPETITIVE RANTS, AND HIS IMPULSIVENESS RESULTS IN HALF-BAKED, ILL-INFORMED AND OCCASIONALLY RECKLESS DECISIONS."

>> Rooney: EVEN POLITICIANS GOT IN THE ACT.

AFTER A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF SENATORS MET WITH TRUMP, SOMEONE LEAKED WHAT HE SAID ABOUT COUNTRIES LIKE HAITI.

>> WHY DO WE WANT THESE PEOPLE FROM "ALL THESE ( BLEEP )-HOLE COUNTRIES HERE?"

>> Rooney: AS THE "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTED, "REPORTERS DRANK LUSTILY FROM THE FIRE HOSE OF LEAKS THAT EMANATED FROM THE WEST WING DURING THE PAST FOUR YEARS."

SO, NOW WHAT?

>> THE PRESIDENT-ELECT HAS CHOSEN THE FIRST TOP MEMBER OF HIS NEW ADMINISTRATION.

THAT'S HIS LONGTIME ADVISER, RON KLAIN.

>> Rooney: IF YOU CAN'T READILY IDENTIFY BIDEN'S CHIEF OF STAFF, YOU'RE NOT ALONE, AND THAT'S THE WAY THIS WHITE HOUSE WANTS IT.

AS THE WASHINGTON POST SAYS, "THE PIPELINE HAS GONE DRY."

PRESUMABLY THAT MEANS THOSE LUCRATIVE TELL-ALL BOOK DEALS FOR REPORTERS HAVE GONE DRY, TOO.

DAN LOTHIAN, AS YOU KNOW ALL THESE REPORTERS, ANY TIME TRUMP HAD ANY KIND OF INTERACTION IN THEM, IT WAS ANOTHER CHAPTER IN THE BOOK.

BUT HAVE YOU EVER SEEN AN ADMINISTRATION THAT WAS AS DRY AS THIS ONE, CERTAINLY NOT CLINTON, OBAMA, THERE WAS CERTAINLY NOTHING COMING OUT THAT WAS EVEN POLICY WISE LEAKED, EVEN ON THIS NEW PROPOSAL IT'S NOTHING.

>> WELL I MEAN IF WE GO BACK TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IT DOES FEEL LIKE PRESIDENT BIDEN IS BORROWING A PAGE FROM THE OBAMA YEARS.

IT FEELS VERY DIFFERENT.

IT FEELS EXTREME BECAUSE WE'VE JUST COME OFF FOUR YEARS, WHEREAS YOU POINTED OUT, RIGHTLY SO THAT THERE WERE ALL THESE LEAKS HAPPENING RIGHT?

NOW SUDDENLY IT ALL STOPS AND IT FEELS VERY SHOCKING.

BUT GOING BACK TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WE WERE CONSTANTLY FRUSTRATED IN THAT WE COUNTY GET INFORMATION OUTSIDE -- WE COULDN'T GET INFORMATION OUT OF THE TYPICAL INFORMATION THEY WANTED US TO GET.

BECAUSE PRESIDENT OBAMA MADE IT CLEAR EARLY ON HE DIDN'T WANT A LEAK FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

AM I JUST IMAGINING THIS OR DID IT REALLY HAPPEN?

I WENT BACK AND FOUND A QUOTE FROM DAVID SANGER OF THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT SAYS, THIS IS THE MOST CONTROLLED FREAK ADMINISTRATION I'VE EVER COVERED.

IF YOU RECALL, THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION LEANED ON THE ESPIONAGE ACT RIGHT, TO PUT PRESSURE ON WHISTLE BLOWERS WHO WERE LEAKING INFORMATION TO JOURNALISTS.

SO THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED, JUST A LITTLE JARRING COMING OFF THE LEAK-THAT HAPPENED ON TO TRUMP.

>> WELL, LOOK, LEAKS ARE OF COURSE THE MOTHER'S MILK OF POLITICAL REPORTING.

THERE'S ALL SORTS OF LEAKS.

NOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION LEAKED EVERYTHING, YOU REMEMBER THAT ONE OF THE STAFFERS IN THERE IN HIS TELL-ALL BOOK SAID THAT HE WOUND UP USING KELLYANNE CONWAY'S COMPUTER AND SHE HAD LEFT HER E-MAILS UP THERE AND IT GREATED THAT SHE WAS LEAKING LIKE A SIEVE TO JUST ABOUT EVERY REPORTER IN WASHINGTON.

SO THE FACT THAT THE LEAKS, THE LEAKS OF DIRT HAVE DRIED UP, SPEAKS TO THE FACT THAT PROFESSIONALS ARE NOW WORKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

AND TELLS YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THE LOW QUALITY OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE.

BUT YOU KNOW, IT BEHOOVES JOURNALISTS TO BE CAREFUL WITH LEAKS.

THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE IS STILL LEAKING BUT THEY'RE LEAKING OUT STUFF THAT'S FAVORABLE TO THEM NOT THE DIRT.

PERHAPS SOME DIRT WILL COME OUT LATER BUT I THINK EVERYONE HAS TO TRUST BUT BE WARY OF WHERE THIS INFORMATION IS COMING FROM AT ALL TIMES.

AND BY THE WAY, ANYBODY IN GOVERNMENT THAT'S WATCHING THIS WHO WANTS TO LEAK, KELLER KELLER@WBC.COM.

SORRY I'M LATE.

>> JACK SCHAEFFER HAD SOMETHING ABOUT THIS, THERE WERE THESE WARRING FANGS, THERE WAS JARVANGA VERSUS THE BANON PEOPLE, TRYING TO GET AT EACH OTHER, ONE OF MY FAVORITE LEAKERS WAS TRUMP HIMSELF WHO WOULD OFTEN APPEAR AS A SENIOR WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL IN STORIES, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS RICH AND AWESOME.

I KNOW IT'S FUN FOR REPORTERS AND EXCITING FOR REPORTERS THAT DOES MAKE IT INTO THE BOOK CHAPTER, AS A CONSUMER OF NEWS, IF I WANT TO FIND OUT ABOUT WAREHOUSE STAFFERS IN SOAP OPERAS, ATTENTION ON POLICY AND IMPLICATIONS OF ACTUAL POLICY MATTERS.

>> Rooney: BOO!

>> TO THE POINT JOANNA JUST MADE, I WAS GOING BACK AND FORTH BEFORE WE MET UP TO TALK ABOUT THIS STUFF WHETHER THE LEAK FIRE HOSE IN THE TRUMP YEARS WAS ULTIMATELY BENEFICIAL OR DETRIMENTAL TO US AS A POLITY.

I HAVE NO USE FOR THE NEWS ABOUT WHETHER TRUMP IS IN A GOOD OR BAD MOOD, THE STORY IS WHETHER WHO'S UP OR DOWN IN HIS WAR VET, WHETHER WE SHOULD LOOK AT A BETTER TONE, MORE CALM OR MORE PRESIDENTIAL, IN A WEEK OR TWO.

THOSE STORIES KIND OF INURED US AGAINST THE FRUSTRATION DISPLAYED WEEK OR WEEK OUT.

THAT SAID, CAPTURED HIS WORLD VIEW, THE LEAKS BEFORE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, INDICATED THAT THEY WERE ALREADY THINKING ABOUT WAYS THEY COULD SUBVERT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION IF THEY DIDN'T LIKE THEM.

IF THERE WAS ANYTHING SIMILARLY EGREGIOUS IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, BY ALL MEANS I HOPE IT LEAKS OUT BUT HE ACCEPTANCE AMERICAN DEMOCRACY THIS IN A WAY THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP DID NOT.

>> Rooney: LAST WEEK, I GAVE A RAVE TO FOX NEWS FOR MOVING GREG GUTFELD TO A LATE NIGHT TIMESLOT WITH HIS OWN SHOW TITLED SIMPLY "GUTFELD!"

MY RAVE WAS FOR A CONSERVATIVE ALTERNATIVE TO THE POSSE OF LATE NIGHT LIBERALS.

BUT THAT WAS BEFORE I ACTUALLY SAW THE SHOW.

AND WHILE IT'S EARLY, LESS THAN A WEEK OLD, THE REVIEWS ARE LESS THAN STELLAR FOR GOOD REASON.

AS OF THIS WEEK, THE ONE-TIME COMIC AND PUNDIT IS NOW, WELL, A CERTIFIED COMEDIAN.

>> I'M AS GIDDY AS KAMALA HARRIS EXPLAINING KIDS IN CAGES OR WOODY ALLEN HEARING ABOUT KIDS IN CAGES.

>> Rooney: OF THE SHOWS WE SAMPLED, "GUTFELD!"

WAS HEAVY ON DERISION OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND HIS LATE NIGHT COMPETITION.

>> THE DEFINITION OF "RISK" TO KIMMEL IS "DEHYDRATION FROM CRYING TOO MUCH."

LET'S SEE WHAT BRIAN WILLIAMS IS UP TO RIGHT NOW.

>> GOOD EVENING, I'M BRIAN WILLIAMS, AND I'M ON MARS.

>> Rooney: "GUTFELD!"

OFFERS A PANEL OF GUESTS, ERIC TRUMP AMONG THE FIRST.

>> BIDEN IS BORING AS HELL, KAMALA IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.

>> Rooney: THE SHOW MOVES FAST, AND THERE'S LOTS OF RAZZLE-DAZZLE, BUT IT'S GUTFELD'S HUMOR THAT HAS DRAWN THE SHARP KNIVES.

>> YOU CAN SELF-IDENTIFY AS A COMEDIAN WITHOUT ACTUALLY EVER SAYING ANYTHING FUNNY.

>> I MEAN, LOOK, COMEDY IS REALLY HARD.

THIS WAS REALLY TERRIBLE.

>> THIS IS WHAT THE KIDS WOULD CALL "GIGA CRINGE."

>> Rooney: ACTUALLY THERE WERE A COUPLE OF AMUSING SEGMENTS, LIKE WHEN GUTFELD ASKED FELLOW FOX HOSTS TO RATE HIS FIRST SHOW.

WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS SHOW?

>> I DON'T WANT TO BE CRITICAL.

I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE POSITIVES.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME.

I JUST THINK THERE ARE SOME LOW POINTS, TOO.

>> Rooney: GUTFELD'S RATINGS, THOUGH, WERE HIGH.

AS THE OLD SAYING GOES, ONLY TIME WILL TELL, EXCEPT I'M NOT GIVING IT ANYMORE.

>> THAT WAS A JOKE.

>> Rooney: YOU KNOW JOANNA IT IS EARLY AND PEOPLE GET CRUCIFIED RIGHT OFF THE BAT AND MAYBE IN A FEW WEEKS IT WILL CALM DOWN.

BUT HE WERE MORE LIKE BILL MAHR AND HIMSELF, BILL MAHR WAS VERY MUCH HIMSELF, BUT TO HAVE TO BE A COMEDIAN, THAT'S WHERE HE MAKES A MISTAKE.

ALL THESE CANNED JOKES, THE JOKES ARE ANCIENT.

HE HAD A WOODY ALLEN JOKE IN THERE, PEOPLE WON'T KNOW WHAT CONTEXT IS IN THERE.

IF HE WAS JUST HIMSELF DID THE INTERVIEWS, BUT HE'S GOT TO PUT ON AN ACT.

>> TO BE FAIR, COMEDY IS HARD.

HE IS A WITH ITY WITH A WITTY GUY.

THERE WAS SOME BITS HE DID THAT WERE LEGITIMATELY FUNNY.

PART OF THE PROBLEM REALLY COMEDY, TO BE REALLY GOOD, MOST COMEDY IS DANGEROUS, WHICH MEANS IT'S A BIT SUBVERSIVE, IT'S PLAYING UP AND KIND OF GOING UP AGAINST THE AUDIENCE'S EXPECTATIONS.

WHAT HE'S DOING THE IS PREACHING TO THE CHOIR.

THERE IS NOTHING UNEXPECTED OR SURPRISING ABOUT IT.

I MEAN I WOULD ACTUALLY ARGUE THAT A LOT OF THE LIBERAL COMEDIANS ON LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW, COLBERT OR JON STEWART TYPES, GOT FOR A SIMILAR REASON, THEY WERE DOESN'T RANTS DEPEND TRUMP AS OPPOSED TO TRUE JOKES.

IT IS THE NATURE OF THE HUMOR THAT IS KIND OF THE PROBLEM.

>> I HAVEN'T DONE ANY REVIEWS OF COMEDY ACTS EVER BUT HERE IT GOES.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS A FUNCTION OF JUST COMEDY IN GENERAL WHEN YOU FIRST START OUT.

I RECALL JAY LENO, I USED TO WATCH ALL OF THESE NIGHTTIME SHOWS BACK IN THE DAY.

NOW I'M GETTING TOO OLD TO STAY UP THAT LATE.

HAVING WATCHED JAY LENO, HE WAS RIPPED HIS FIRST NIGHT, HE WAS DESCRIBED BY OTHER COMEDIANS AS BECOMING CORPORATE ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE WAS PRAISED FOR ALL OF THE ACTS HE WOULD DO WHEN HE WAS OUT ON THE ROAD AND IN FACT HE CONTINUED TO DO THOSE EVENS WHEN HE WAS DOING THE TONIGHT SHOW.

WHEN HE TOOK OVER INITIALLY, HE WAS REALD PANNED BY ALL THE EXPERTS ON COMEDY OUT THERE.

AND THEN OVER TIME HE SETTLED INTO THAT SEAT AND BECAME QUITE SUCCESSFUL AS WE KNOW.

IT IS REALLY TOO EARLY TO SLAM THE DOOR ON HIS COMEDY ACT.

THE OTHER THING I WOULD POINT OUT IN TERMS OF BEING, GETTING ANY KIND OF YOU KNOW ATTENTION OR SUCCESS, FOCUSED ON THE MORE CONSERVATIVE KIND OF VOICE, REMEMBER,.

>> Johnny: FOX NEWS CHANNEL FIRST WAS COMING ON -- REMEMBER WHEN FOX NEWS CHANNEL WAS FIRST COMING ON BOARD, REMEMBER SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS NEVER GOING TO FIND AN AUDIENCE.

>> Rooney: TRUE.

>> I'LL ECHO YOU EMILY THAT FOR ME AT LEAST IT'S TIME TO SHUT THE DOOR, THE POINT JOANNA MADE ABOUT EXPLORE IS KEY.

IF WE GOT TOGETHER AND TRIED TO WRITE UP A LIST OF TOPIC, MAYBE ON THE NEXT SHOW OF GUTFIELD, WE PROBABLY COULD PREDICT EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS GOING TO SAY, MAKE JOKES ABOUT.

IF YOU ARE NOT SURPRISED IT'S NOT FUNNY.

I KNOW YOU WERE NOT A GREAT DAVID LETTERMAN FAN, I WAS.

HE WOULD BRING ON, TRYING TO BE MARLON BRANDO FOR TEN MINUTES, THERE WAS NO REASON TO EXPECT IT AND I FOUND IT HILARIOUS.

THE WAY THAT MAKES ME PAINED, HE LOOKS SO UNCOMFORTABLE PHYSICALLY, MAYBE I'M PROJECTING THAT, MAYBE HE ISN'T BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE HE'S AT EASE.

IF THE HOST IS YOUR HONOR COMFORTABLE, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE COMFORTABLE.

GRRM POINT.

>> I HAVE NEVER FOUND GREG GUTFIELD FUNNY.

AAS FUNNY AS PSORIASIS AND PSORIASIS ISN'TEN ISN'TEN FUNNY.

IT IS ONE THING TO HAVE A COMIC FIGURE TO PLAY OFF OF, GERALD FORD, STUMBLING AND FUMBLING, DONALD TRUMP DOING WHATEVER.

BUT THE CORONAVIRUS ISN'T A LAUGHING MATTER.

THE POLITICS OF THIS MOMENT, BY AND LARGE, ARE NOT FUNNY.

SO YOU'RE LEFT TO TOSSING OUT THE USUAL RED MEAT, THE ON THE LIPS STUFF THAT I GUESS AMUSES ERIC, ALTHOUGH HE DIDN'T LOOK AS AMUSED IN THAT CLIP YOU SHOWED, I PREDICT A BAD SHOW.

>> Rooney: TIME NOW FOR OUR RANTS AND RAVES, STARTING WITH DAN LOTHIAN.

>> I HAVE A RAVE FOR PEC, NONT PROFIT ORGANIZATION MADE UP OF MOST REPLY JOURNALISTS WHO ARE WORKING TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS WHO GO INTO HOT ZONES OR CONFLICT ZONES NOT ONLY PHYSICAL STANDPOINT BUT ALSO LEGALLY.

SINCE THE CORONAVIRUS BROKE OUT FRANKLY SINCE 2020, MARCH OF 2020, THEY HAVE BEEN KEEPING TRACK OF HOW MANY JOURNALISTS HAVE DIED AROUND THE WORLD MUCH CORONAVIRUS.

THE CURRENT COUNT STANDS AT 1034 ACROSS 73 COUNTRIES.

AND IT'S TRAGIC, RIGHT?

THESE ARE THE JOURNALISTS WHO ARE GOING OUT AND HAVING TO COVER THE PANDEMIC, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, PUTTING THEMSELVES AT GREAT RISK.

I UNDERSTAND, MILLIONS HAVE DIED ALL AROUND THE WORLD BUT JOURNALISTS THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

AND IT'S GOOD TO PAY ATTENTION WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HITS OUR OWN.

AND NOT ONLY DO THEY PAY ATTENTION, THEY KEEP TRACK OF THE NAMES, ALSO POST A LITTLE NOTE ABOUT THEM WITH THE PHOTO AND THAT COUNT CONTINUES.

HAD.

>> Rooney: ALL RIGHT, JOANNA.

>> SO I HAVE A RANT FOR THE EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE INSIDER, GACT POINTS WHICH IS A WAY OF JUDGING THE STAFF, SO THEY'RE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM JUST JUDGING YOUR SUCCESS BY PAGE VIEWS, WHICH IS GOOD.

BUT INSTEAD THEY HAVE A WHOLE LIST OF WHAT COUNTS AND WHAT DOESN'T COUNT FOR JUDGING THE IMPACT OF YOUR STORY.

SO FOR INSTANCE YOU GET AN IMPACT POINT IF YOUR STORY IS REFERENCED IN A TITLE WITH A GREAT DEAL OF PRESTIGE WHATEVER THAT MEANS, ON SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS WITH MORE THAN A MILLION FOLLOWERS BUT YOU DON'T GET POINTS FOR BEING MENTIONED ON LOCAL RADIO, YOU DON'T GET POINTS FOR JOURNALISTS ON TWITTER UNLESS THE JOURNALIST IS HUGE.

QUANTIFYING THE WORK OF JOURNALISM IS HARD.

>> Rooney: GUESS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANY IMPACT IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THEM HMM?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

PROPS TO THE INSIDER, WHO RECEIVED 260 IMPACT POINTS FOR THE MONTH OF MARCH.

>> Rooney: OH THAT'S CRAZY.

ALL RIGHT JON.

>> I HAVE A RAVE FOR COURT TV.

IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW FOR MY MONEY THE BIGGEST STORY IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, THE CHAUVIN MURDER TRIAL YOU REALLY NEED TO BE WATCHING COURT TV.

YOU MAY REMEMBER COURT TV WAS BIG IN THE '90s.

THE O.J.

SIMPSON CASE AND ET CETERA.

WALL TO WALL COVERAGE OF TRIALS.

THEY MOVED AWAY FROM THAT AND THE BRAND VANISHED ALTOGETHER AROUND 2008 BUT IT'S BACK WITH FOCUS AGAIN ON WALL TO WALL COVERAGE OF THESE TRIALS.

I HAVE A JOB WHERE I'M ABLE TO KEEP AN EYE ON IT ALL DAY LONG AND IT'S GREAT.

IF YOU DON'T, YOU CAN STILL TUNE IN IN PRIME TIME AND GET REALLY EXTENDED COVERAGE MORE THAN THE NETWORKS WILL GIVE YOU PLUS REALLY INTERESTING SOMETIMES OFF THE USUAL GRID PANELISTS ANALYZING WHAT YOU WOULD SEE.

WELL WORTH CHECKING OUT COURT TV.

>> Rooney: I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE JON.

WHEN THEY WENT OFF THEIR MISSION, THEY HAD A LOT OF COMPETITION TOO, BUT WHEN THEY WERE THE ORIGINAL THAT'S WHERE YOU WENT TO TO FIND COURT TRIALS, LACEY PETERSON YOU NAME IT ALL THOSE TRIALS.

THEY JUST VANISHED.

I AGREE WITH YOU.

ALL RIGHT ADAM.

>> I HAVE A RAVE FOR LAURA BASSET A HIGH POWERED POLITICAL FREELANCER, POLITICAL REPORTER, BEFORE I GIVE THE RAVE IF YOU ARE A PARENT WATCHING WITH YOUR KIDS YOU MIGHT HAVEN TO HAVE AN AWK WARKD CONVERSATION THEM AFTER MY RAVE SO BE FOREWARNED.

LAURA BASSET CAUGHT A MAN UPLOADING PICTURES OF HER FEET TO A WIKI SITE, SHE DECIDED SHE WANTED TO DO A Q&A OF THIS MAN, IT IS THE MOST INCREDIBLY CRINGE WORTHY AND ALSO TOTALLY FASCINATING THING THAT I'VE READ IN THE LAST MONTH, EASY.

IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN REALLY, REALLY STRANGE SUBCULTURES CHECK IT OUT YOU WILL NOT FORGET IT.

LISA BERKMAN OKAY, ADAM, I'LL BE CHECKING IT OUT BECAUSE THAT IS A BIZARRE ONE.

TONIGHT I HAVE A RAVE FOR NBC AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT TRICKY BECAUSE IT IS A VERY SENSITIVE STORY AND THAT IS THAT THEY USED THE FULL FACE PICTURE OF THAT YOUNG BOY, A MIGRANT FROM MEXICO PRESUMABLY OR GUATEMALA I THINK HE WAS, THE GROUP HE WAS TRAVELING WITH JUST DESERTED HIM, MAYBE THEY THOUGHT HE WOULD BE BETTERS OFF ALONE, I DON'T KNOW.

HE RAN INTO CUSTOMS OFFICIALS, HE STARTED EXPLAINING WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO HIM.

SOME SITES DECIDED TO GO WITH THE BLURRED IMAGE.

SEEING THAT YOUNG PLAN, THE EMOTION IN HIS FACE AND HIS VOICE, IT REALLY TOLD A STORY THAT I THINK YOU COULDN'T SEE OR YOU COULDN'T FEEL, YOU COULDN'T SENSE QUITE AS DRAMATICALLY, IF THE PICTURE WAS BLURRED.

SO I CREDIT NBC FOR DOING THAT.

AND FINALLY BEFORE WE GO A QUICK CORRECTION: ON LAST WEEK'S SHOW, I SAID THAT REPORTER FELICIA SONMEZ HAD ACCUSED A FELLOW "WASHINGTON POST" STAFFER OF SEXUAL ASSAULT.

IN FACT, THE MAN SHE ACCUSED WORKED FOR THE "LOS ANGELES TIMES."

I REGRET THE ERROR.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR SHOW.

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK.

E-MAIL US, TWEET US, SEND US A COMMENT.

I'M EMILY ROONEY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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