>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made at Reed College in Oregon in 2018.

Inside Higher Ed reports that Reed College announced major changes to its signature Humanities course months after student protesters charged that the course was too white, too male.

Two Eurocentric.

Reed decided to move away from teaching the classics and said it was time to diversify the course requirements.

But writing for The Guardian, critic Mark Ravenhill argues that's kind of a false choice.

Ravenhill says the decades long move away from teaching and performing the classics has been a mistake.

He writes, quote, it's time for a shakeup for a new wave of energy in our theaters, and we shouldn't look to this from just the new works or just the classics.

The best actors and directors have always worked in both.

They present different challenges.

It's only by having a theater culture that continues to explore and expand our relationship with the past, as well as presenting the best of the present, that we'll have a theater that is fully alive, end quote three years ago, Jiva Theater's longtime artistic director Mark Cuddy, retired from that position.

He had led the theater for nearly three decades.

He went to Cleveland in an interim capacity.

Now he's back in Rochester, and Cuddy recently launched the classics Company in Rochester, described as a way to reintroduce the greater Rochester region to the world's enduring stories and characters on stage.

Up first is a trio of performances all works of Anton Chekhov.

The first show debuted last week, and a video of the audience reaction was interesting.

One man said he was dreading going to see Chekhov but ended up loving it.

I bet Mark Cuddy is happy to hear that.

Mark, welcome back to the program.

Nice to have you.

>> Hey, great to see you.

It's been a minute.

>> It has been a minute.

I was thinking, Mark, that, you know, in my own past, I thought, I know I've seen Chekhov somewhere, I don't remember, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it.

And then I realized what I was thinking of, and it was not a work of Chekhov.

I'm embarrassed to say this is probably not a great admission for me to make.

I'm embarrassed to say that what I was thinking of was a clip from a 1993 film starring Bill Murray called Groundhog Day, in which he's stuck in a time loop as a meteorologist in Punxsutawney and ends up with an epiphany of the greatness of small towns.

Let's listen to the clip.

>> When Chekhov saw The Long Winter, he saw a winter bleak and dark and bereft of hope.

Yet we know that winter is just another step in the cycle of life.

But standing here among the people of Punxsutawney and basking in the warmth of their hearths and hearts, I couldn't imagine a better fate than a long and lustrous winter.

From Punxsutawney, it's Phil Connors, so long.

>> Nice speech, bill.

Very nice.

Thank you.

Thanks.

>> How was that for you, too.

>> Good man.

You touch me.

>> Thanks, Larry.

>> Thank you.

Larry.

>> It's Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

That's all I knew of Chekhov.

I mean, I mean, I'm certainly aware of Chekhov, but I'm embarrassed to say, Mark, that's the extent.

Did Chekhov see the long Winter?

Was that correct in that clip?

>> Well, all Russians see a long winter, you know.

Yes, indeed.

I don't think it's unique to Chekhov.

although he would he was suffering from tuberculosis and moved south to Yalta, during his latter years.

He died at 44. he wrote all of his major plays within six years.

and he was a physician himself.

So he, he, he handled a lot of the Russian winters.

>> Well, you've got The Seagull, Three Sisters, and The Cherry Orchard.

And as I mentioned off the top, this video of the audiences in your initial productions last week was, was interesting.

You had a lot of sort of big fans of Chekhov, and then you've got people going.

I got, I got dragged to go see Chekhov and I was dreading it and I loved it.

So why do you want to do this now?

And what do you make of some of those reactions?

>> Yeah, I think, most of us who have been to the theater and watched a lot of different productions have seen some bad productions of Chekhov plays, you know it's it's often, either too drab, too somber or try to make too comical.

They don't really get the temperament of the Russian writers or the Russian characters.

and over in England, where they do check off a lot.

I have found those productions to be quite English sized, you know, kind of made very spoken very well and beautifully designed.

But there's no real passion there.

And in his characters, it's all emotional roller coasters and doing it in a small theater, I think people understood the play, perhaps for the first time.

And were able to engage with the characters.

There's a wide array of interesting characters and stories, and all of the Chekhov plays they're just they're just really good plays with really good characters.

I mean, I don't know, it it I think people get intimidated, but once they see it like, oh, this is great.

This is a real play.

>> Well, and if folks want to see the first, the first is The Seagull.

Yes, yes.

>> And that was Chekhov's first major play.

a little bit of a theatrical metaphors in it as well.

There's a play within a play, and there's a actress and a young writer and has some of those folks, but it's it's easy to understand and easy to get involved very quickly in the relationship.

These are relational plays that they're full of large families.

They take place on country estates, most of them.

And, and all the interactions and things that that happen among these characters.

>> So the Seagull is running through Saturday and the performances for The Classics Company is happening at the MCC Theater on Atlantic in the neighborhood of the Arts.

If you want to check it out, we'll have a link to their website.

If you want information on tickets and upcoming shows, et cetera.

because this is a new effort.

Although, you know, Mark, you're very well known here and you've pulled together a lot of people who have a lot of experience on the stage here.

you're going to do Three Sisters in March.

You're going to do.

No, I'm sorry, you're gonna do The Cherry Orchard in March.

You're going to do Three Sisters in May, and and then what is this, a long term vision for you?

>> Yes.

You know, this is a personal project.

I guess you would call it my retirement project.

it's a passion of mine I had wanted even before I retired from Geneva in 2022, to start doing the work that I hadn't gotten an opportunity to do because of running a theater.

You have to make choices institutionally, not personally.

and there were a lot of classic plays that I just hadn't gotten around to be able to direct or produce, and, and so I decided to go deep and immersive with this project where I would take one playwright every year and do three plays by that playwright.

you know, our mission is to preserve and produce the great plays and playwrights of the classical canon.

and so next year there will be a new playwright and we'll dig deep into that person.

>> As I mentioned at the outset, the last decade has seen a kind of cultural upheaval in a lot of different sort of sectors of American life, certainly in academia.

in the arts.

And it hasn't been it hasn't been uniform.

And I think one of my reactions, one of my first reactions to that is in any kind of effort to bring a pendulum of justice, so to speak, to equilibrium.

There may be a correction, there may be overcorrection.

there may not be.

Sometimes you get it right on the first, first crack at it.

But the notion of moving intentionally away from the classics was a stated goal from a number of different people, sort of in different places in academia.

Again, not uniform.

I'm curious to know how you how you saw that playing out over the last decade.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Well, look, it's important that more people were invited to sit at the table, right?

So we needed to really widen the repertory and have a much more balanced repertory in the theater world.

frankly, the classics, though have been falling out of favor in the theater world for many decades.

When I arrived in 1995 it was fine to, to program two, perhaps three classics in our season because our subscription audience was made up primarily of the Greatest generation was the generation before my generation, the boomer generation.

But as the boomers took over, the audience it became much more about topicality.

And how does that affect me?

And do I understand that?

And people weren't going to the theater just to see the great works.

They wanted to see something that they related to in some way.

and so there was a real sea change, and we couldn't program the classics.

They were expensive generally because there was a lot of characters and and they didn't have high single ticket sales.

So, you know, they were problematic to, to program and produce.

but I love the quote from Raven Hill, who's a very smart person.

that it's not about either or.

I mean, gosh, not, you know, frankly, almost, almost everything isn't about either or.

It's.

Yes.

And, and and we need a balanced repertory here and in Rochester, although there are some classics being done.

there was certainly no company strictly devoted to the classics.

And I thought there was a real niche that I could serve.

>> Do you think there's been an overcorrection in the past decade?

>> No, I don't I don't think, you know, look, one of the great one of the great aspects of doing classical work is really relating it to to history.

in this sense so many of us are asking the question, how the heck did we get here?

Right?

Oh, my God, what?

Look, look around us.

And and I want to know.

I want to know history.

I want to know something foundational.

most contemporary theater is about the now, the present.

Okay.

And that's super important.

and we want to know how did what were the thinking 100 years ago?

What was the thinking 150 years ago?

What was the what were the foundational ideals that that formed not only our country but were global thinking, you know, the late 19th century was a huge sea change in the theatrical dramatic literature not only with Anton Chekhov, but with Henrik Ibsen and August Strindberg and George Bernard Shaw, et cetera.

they were all writing new kinds of, of theater.

And I think if you ask most contemporary playwrights who are writing plays about now, they will mention Anton Chekhov as one of their foundational writers that they've read and really respect in terms of frankly, how to write a play with with many characters and have emotional life and all of that.

Chekhov was hugely influential, so I think it's important for us to to not forget those foundational writers.

>> Yeah.

And I want to talk a little bit more about this decision on Chekhov specifically, because here is someone as I as I betrayed my own lack of culture, I've not seen a Chekhov performance.

And you know, reading about his biography, dying at 40 for a physician who was not just primarily a writer, viewed with some suspicion by some of his contemporary writers, or perhaps some envy, but just a very interesting person.

And yet writing at the time, the question becomes, you know, a century plus later, can it feel relevant?

And now that I've betrayed my lack of culture, Mark, let me just go further down the road of betraying my own lack of culture.

So I've been battling a cold.

I think we've all been battling colds lately.

You feel holed up in the house, and I watched this new documentary on Chevy Chase.

And, you know, I got curious about why some of his films are considered by comedy lovers, modern classics.

And and then if you look at his filmography, there's a lot there, and there's a lot that I'd never heard of.

So last weekend I picked a film of his I'd never heard of with Goldie Hawn, and I watched this and I'm going like, wow, this just feels dated.

It does not feel, it does not feel connected, relevant, funny.

It feels like it's like an anachronism that just doesn't hold up.

And so in any genre, comedy and Chekhov did comedy, you're starting with a comedy drama in any genre.

You can write something that is very much a period piece.

That is might be interesting at the moment, but it's not going to hold and it's not going to necessarily be relevant.

And then you can create something that, no matter what changes might be known for decades or even centuries.

Why to you is Chekhov in that latter category?

>> Yeah, well, it's a great question.

And the reason other writers were suspicious of, of Chekhov is that he was not political.

he wrote about people.

He was a physician.

He his first writing endeavors were short stories, and they were all he was a well-known short story writer, and they were all these character sketches, right?

They would he would he would understand human nature.

In fact, the comedy that he talks about, being, The Seagull is a comedy.

It's really a human comedy.

It's not a Borscht Belt comedy.

So it's it.

He thought.

All characters, all people were flawed.

All people had folly within them.

and it's an a family play.

All the great plays.

Think about this.

it has been said not just by me, by any means that all of the great plays of the theater for centuries and centuries and centuries have been family plays, plays about family.

I don't know.

I don't want to get into why that is, but all of his plays are about families as well.

And so you understand these people and you relate to these people and, and being written in Russian, you'd have to have a very good translation, not an adaptation, but a translation to really get to the heart of his writing in particular, when we talk about Chekhov and I was able to engage this fabulous translator by the name of Kristen Johnson and she's on faculty at George Mason University, and she had translated these plays while an MFA.

And graduate a doctorate program at Yale School of Drama.

and she was able to engage with us and really explain why she was making certain choices.

And I think they're super accessible.

they sound contemporary, although they're not it's not dumbed down or there's no jargon, you know, in the vocabulary.

It's just a very direct and very unfussy.

so the actors really pull it off when you're that close in a small theater.

75 seats, you know, over on Atlantic Avenue.

you you get it?

It's it's not hard, and it doesn't feel dated at all.

I don't think anyone will say it feels dated.

Although we do it in period.

Period costumes.

I mean, that's important.

I think.

>> producer Megan Mack fine for me.

Who I'm thinking of.

I'm thinking of a translation of the Odyssey recently by a woman translator whose work has been both sort of cheered for its reevaluation of some of the language and themes in the Odyssey.

And then, you know, some on the cultural right have said that it is, you know, sort of drenched in wokeism.

But anytime you've got a translation, there are choices.

Emily Wilson, I think that's correct.

Yeah, I think that's right.

and I haven't read Wilson's translation.

I'm very keen to read that.

because I know it sparked some controversy.

Mark, you talk about the importance of translation and Wilson's attempt to translate the Odyssey was viewed as political.

And you write that Chekhov, you say that Chekhov's work is not sort of inherently political.

It's more about people, but is a translation inherently political?

Can it be political?

And are you are you comfortable with the translation?

>> So there's a real difference between translation and adaptation.

For example, the one of the big hits on Broadway right now is a production of Oedipus that is adapted and directed by Robert Icke, who's a real progressive, forward thinking theater artist.

and and it's it feels contemporary and, and he adapted it and it's but it's the Oedipus story.

that's an adaptation.

a translation done by translators who are not playwrights or theater makers.

They are honed in the art of translating the author's voice in the clearest possible manner.

So ours is a translation, and it's different because you don't take a point of view.

You try to get the point of view of the original writer in a translation.

>> Is there any pressure on professionals like you in the theater world to do more on politics?

Not to avoid politics, but to grab it head on?

Given the events of the moment?

>> Again, it's a big canvas.

I think, you know, we're in this for our personal artistic expression.

and, certainly if when I was at Jiva, I had a much larger mission because we had a very vast audience.

And in our community, this is a small project for us here at The Classics Company.

And you know, I, as a theater artist, I'm a director, primarily.

and in the, in the theater, unless you're a playwright, you can't work alone.

If you're a painter, you can work alone.

If you're a sculptor, you can work alone.

If even if you're a musician, you can at least practice alone.

and you could play alone as a as a director.

I can't do that alone.

So I have to.

I had to form a company to be able and have other collaborators.

And and that's important for us thinking of, okay, who's going to join in on my vision of this artistic expression?

And frankly, I think in the, in, in the theater world there are few opportunities.

And you can ask some of our actors here in the, in our company a few opportunities to do a classic play, such as Chekhov in period.

it's a real challenge.

And, and it sort of has the fires going creative fires going within our company.

>> I just briefly on the space because I'm not, you know, I can't run a 51 minute ad for the classics company, although.

No, no, listen.

>> Necessary.

>> Listen, listeners, you want to go see the shows?

And again, this is it's just starting out here.

All three of the performances of Chekhov are happening at different times January, March and May.

it's the classics company.org Mark Cuddy.

Is that right?

Did I get that right?

>> That is classics, plural.

The Classics Company.org okay.

>> And we'll link it in our show notes for people who want to check it out.

It's a it's a very different space for you obviously.

I mean Jiva is such a it's obviously a, you know, sui generis in terms of its space and it's very different than the muck.

The muck is, you know, this nice community space that is home for you now.

And how's it going there?

>> It's great.

You know, one of one of the things that I say now is that in my 27 years at Jiva, I certainly was part of the Rochester Theater ecology, but I worked within the national industry, not the local industry, primarily meaning that the artistic, company that was developed and I worked with were mostly from out of town, mostly New York and across the country.

And, and the conversations were mostly national.

it's been so rewarding to be part of, I mean, really in the center of really part of and engaged in the Rochester theater ecology with so many wonderful smaller companies and so many wonderful artists that I've been able to see, perform and meet now and engage so it's that's been a real joy and some terrific performances.

And I, I can only, you know, urge people who want to see some great acting to to come and see one of our plays.

it it's it's really a sort of opens my mind.

I was hopeful but I've been welcomed by everyone, and had a little.

It was a little afraid of being.

Oh, he's he's the guy coming in and trying to do something here, but I approached it humbly and hopefully that will continue.

>> Here's an email from a listener named Rick who says, I think Marc is a fan of Samuel Beckett.

Did he see the new Godot on Broadway?

I loved it, I was wondering what he thought of it and what he thought of Beckett back on Broadway.

>> Well, perhaps when I want to close The Classics Company, I'll do a season of Beckett.

again, one of the most notorious productions in my tenure was our production of waiting for Godot.

back in January of 2000, in which I acted in but to this to this writer, I have not gone to New York and and seen that production.

it, you know, it's it's it's a play that we always try to climb.

All the people in the theater want to do that every once in a while to see if they can conquer it, but it has a, it has a fabulous intriguing set design this big sort of oval in the center that they work in, like a, like a drainpipe or something.

but I have not seen it.

>> Know what?

I want to make sure I understand the the stance you're taking on this.

It's hard.

It would end The Classics Company because it's just hard to to nail the material or because audiences are turned off by it.

>> I don't think most people.

I mean, it's an inside joke.

I mean, people hated our waiting for Godot, so it's like, oh, sure, he's going to do Beckett again.

And, you know I love Beckett and would love to do a season of Beckett.

but it'd probably be for a few years down the road.

>> Okay, that's that's not immediately following Chekhov.

In other words we have to take our only break of the hour, and we're going to come back.

We got a lot to talk about with Mark Cuddy again.

It's The Classics Company.org.

If you want to check it out online.

And the first run the production opened last week of The Seagull by Chekhov, and it runs through Saturday at the Muck.

Tickets still available.

Let's get a let's get a short break.

Come right back with Mark Cuddy next.

Coming up in our second hour, the state of the state address from Governor Kathy Hochul, you'll hear it live right here.

A chance to hear how the governor is laying out her priorities and agenda for 2026.

It tends to be a preview of the big legislative items coming down the pike on economic development, social issues, taxes, and more.

You're going to hear the state of the state next hour.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Cariola center, proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson.

Believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Cariola.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Mark Cuddy is my guest.

Spent nearly three decades at the helm at the.

As the artistic director at Jiva Theater and has launched the Classics Company in Rochester, trying to introduce or reintroduce the classics on stage to the greater Rochester region.

And you know, Mark, I'm from Cleveland.

I know you were in Cleveland for about a year and a half at the Playhouse there.

we have been in touch with the Playhouse.

They have a lot of praise for the work that you did there, and a lot of appreciation.

A lot of.

I think gratitude is is part of the statement we got from them for your work there.

There was also a little bit of controversy you know, there was a reporting in, in Playbill, which is a national online publication covering the theater world that reported on the story of a production that shut down before it even ran.

planned production of Charlie, Yvonne Simpson's I'm Back Now.

And the story essentially is that a member of the cast said that they had been sexually assaulted in an elevator in housing provided by the theater, so not by anybody involved with the Playhouse, but they were concerned with how the theater handled the report of that.

And I want to ask you if there's anything you can say about that, or if there's anything that you learned from that.

>> Thank you.

Evan, you're you're from Cleveland, right?

I am your hometown.

I am, yeah, yeah.

Well, so this is a very long and complicated story.

That particular horrible event was a part of a string of complications and that the Cleveland Play House asked me to come over for four months, maybe five months while they were finishing an artistic director search.

And they asked me right before I was retiring here, the same search firm that was doing a new artistic director search there had just completed ours with our hiring of Elizabeth.

And I said, oh, sure, go for it for four months.

Five months.

That's that'd be that'd be fine.

You know, that'd be kind of fun.

I know some of the folks there and and as you said, I wound up being there for 18 months.

it was a very dysfunctional place.

lots of bad behavior, lots of disharmony.

I had never encountered anything like it.

you know, one of my hallmarks, I hope at 27 years at Jiva and all the theaters that I've led that, you know, we work in concert.

Certainly we have our ups and downs, but I you know, I've hired 4000 artists in my time theater artists, and never had an issue with with any of them like this.

And and it was a it was a tinderbox.

And I was handed a season a few months after I arrived, the interim managing director resigned, and the board asked me to take on that position, too.

While they finished, the artistic director.

Search, that artistic director search fell apart.

They couldn't hire anybody.

Come that November of 22. so then they said, could you do both of these jobs for.

And eventually they hired a great managing director in the summer of 23 and then finally a new artistic director in December of 23, a year and a half later, and I came home.

We never left.

I mean, I was driving back and forth, you know, that four hours.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> I do drive well.

Right.

and I stayed there through a lot of the, the painful period for, supporting the, the staff there.

I really liked the people I was working with.

I was trying to protect them.

I took the brunt of lots of anger there.

that was built up over.

Everyone had past relationships, too.

I mean, the people who were most upset at that particular time were people who had had other issues with the Playhouse in the past.

And it was a it was a very complex period.

So I can't say much more than that.

but we made it through, and the board really appreciated my staying.

And and trying to stabilize that place.

>> I appreciate that there's not a lot you can say specifically about the individual allegations of the handling of the incident.

I want to ask you, if you think the balance of power between directors and casts is in an appropriate place.

>> Wow.

That's a that's a really a really interesting question., I there are many kinds of directors, just like there are many kinds of actors.

and we work in a very fragile ecosystem.

When we put together a production.

Right.

it's based on trust.

We're trusting that we're all going to work together.

Well, many folks haven't worked together before.

and as a producer, as an artistic director, I try to be very careful about who we're asking to do what and and bringing on people that are both longtime collaborators, known collaborators and new folks.

there I was given these productions.

They were already put together.

and I didn't know the history, and I didn't have any kind of relationship with directors and actors.

for the most part so it's it's really a fragile process.

And you build that trust over time, and, and directors need to be respectful.

And most of them are of actors and, and, you know, but actors need guidance and leadership within the room.

I also think and I say often that casts are led by leading actors, not by directors.

Right.

So once you get into the performance run, the director isn't even there.

and leading actors need to set the tone for discipline and how everyone's going to get along and, and you know, showing up for work and in a good in a good space.

So I think there were many issues over there in Cleveland that thankfully, we we didn't have at Shiva.

>> Okay.

Any regrets about how you handled things?

>> No.

>> we did reach out to Cleveland Play House.

Here's the statement that they gave us.

Mark Cuddy served as interim artistic director from July 2022 through December 23rd, and he simultaneously served as interim managing director.

He served in those roles, leading after it lost both its artistic and managing directors.

Once permanent managing and artistic directors were in place, his contract expired and he left Sif with its gratitude for his service.

End quote.

so yeah, I do know the drive well here, but was it your intention always to come back to Rochester?

And I mean, was The Classics Company always in mind?

Was it something else in mind?

>> Yeah.

You know, we never left.

I mean, my spouse still living here, and we still have our homes and we have a we have a getaway place on Keuka Lake.

And so it was this was just a four month or five month gig, you know since then I had to move my older brother back here to Rochester and oversee his care and finances and all of that.

You know, the way you do with someone elderly and and so that kept me here, and and as I was saying, I, I'm still an artist.

I still wanted to do something.

So the class assembly was not in my mind, although I wanted to go out and get direct and do that kind of thing and do some classics around the country.

But since I needed to stay closer to home for these personal reasons I decided to launch a company here myself.

>> So I want to redirect the conversation now to, I don't know if there's there's someone who was on this program recently.

I don't know if you know him.

Do you know Kevin Sarris?

Is that a name?

>> You know, I met him at Jiva at the Jiva gala.

Okay, so.

>> And Kevin's going to think I'm pick on him at this point, but I actually think he's brilliant.

He's he's on the board at RIT.

He was on he was on a crew.

He graduated in 1985.

He was on a crew that essentially invented what became Siri.

And he's worked in technology and really A.I.

for decades now.

I mean, really interesting and thoughtful.

I think a brilliant guy.

I don't use that term lightly.

He and I tangled a little bit about how much A.I.

should be used in terms of the creation of new material.

And, you know, he has shared with me some of the work that he's doing because he's he writes musicals.

He's he's writes in the theater world and he's using A.I.

to that effect.

And, you know, I don't know if he's gonna I'm not going to play the song that he sent me.

I can't do that yet.

Maybe he will eventually, but it's really impressive.

I mean, I don't want to like it, I told him, but I do.

So Mark, talk me down from this because there is there's this tidal wave that seems to be crashing really quickly in the last few years of artists who have these tools now and they can say, well, I've been working on this comedy and I've got writer's block, but now I can finish it.

Thanks to A.I., I've been working on this drama.

I got, you know, an act and a half done, but I can't, I can't wrap it up.

But A.I.

can do it for me.

I need a new character.

A.I.

can do it.

I need a want to song.

A.I.

can do it.

are you comfortable with that?

Like, where are your lines on this?

>> Yeah, well, I've just dipping my toes in all of those statements that you just said began with I. And I think that's the important.

The artist is still controlling that.

I need to do something.

I want some help.

you know Broadway plays forever and Broadway musicals forever.

Had ghost writers and ghost composers and, you know, other people helping to make something happen.

So as long as it's under the artist's control then I think I'm fine with it because it's still an expression by that artist, and that artist is putting it out there as being part of their artistic output.

so it has to be personal.

I mean, it can't be a company churning things out without the artists at the center of it, but if the artist is using it as a tool, then I guess, I guess I'm okay with that.

>> Look, Kevin's not listening.

We can talk behind his back.

I mean, you don't have to just know I'm joking here, but, I mean, I I'm I'm less comfortable, I guess, than you are.

But I also understand that we're we're not going back.

So it's a question of how it integrates.

And it's a question of what audiences know about the artistic material.

That's a big thing for me as an audience member.

I'm not a creator.

I want to know what I'm consuming.

Is that fair?

>> I don't think the bulk of audiences care.

>> Oh.

Oh, no.

Come on.

>> I don't think so.

Look, the number of people who would come to see a show and write me saying, why did you why did you have that in the third act?

Why did you why?

Like they would question Jeeva about the writing of a play or a musical.

Not even understanding that there was a playwright or composer.

people want to consume the product.

They don't care about the process.

I think you're in the minority.

There.

>> Oh, boy.

>> But I.

>> Know, but but at least some.

>> Of this is a lesson I've learned the hard way over many decades.

But unless you're coming to see a Chekhov play, unless you're coming to see a classic that you really are there for the playwright.

But most of the general consumption people don't care.

>> I, I, I look, I think you're probably right in many ways.

I the reason I care is I want the writer who is going through writer's block to know that, like, that's an artistic part of the process, and you may never get over that writer's block, and you may never get to the finish line, but you might and it might be brilliant, and it might be wonderful, and it might be junk, but it might help you get better.

And I don't want to use that tool that drags.

>> You can't modify behavior and you can't legislate behavior.

So when things are, people act out.

People do what they want.

>> We're talking to the Mark Cuddy, who is the founding artistic director of the classics Company in Rochester.

And if you're just joining us Mark, do you want to mention, I've been mentioning this week that the performances of The Seagull go through Saturday.

When do you have them?

>> This week.

Yes, yes.

>> So thank you.

so tonight I'm trying something very different.

We're trying a $10 Tuesday where you show up with ten bucks.

No advance sale, no credit cards.

Just ten bucks gets you in.

So we have tonight at 730.

Tomorrow is a regular performance at 730.

Thursday, 730, Friday, 730, Saturday, 3 p.m.

and 8 p.m.

And then we're done.

>> Has it been a hard road convincing people to go to Chekhov?

>> No, it's not so far.

And we're offering, you know Evan, you might remember at at Jiva, I had a program called Prolog, which is a half hour background talk that took place an hour before curtain time.

And so we've partnered with writers and books and outside of tonight, which has no advance sales.

So we're not doing the pre-show talk, but Wednesday through Saturday for those performances at Writers and Books, which is a block away on Atlantic Avenue, their rear entrance there we'll have Prolog happening.

It's a free background talk.

So if you interested in you want to get a little background about Chekhov on the play?

you can come there at 630 and that goes until seven, and then you just walk a block to to muck and and go into the theater.

>> Before I grab someone on the phone.

Here, let me just ask Mark, what do you hope an audience who has never seen Chekhov takes away from seeing this?

>> You know these are everyone reacts differently to material that they see.

and I think I think people audience members will want to sort of adjust their sights on perhaps how this literature, this dramatic literature fits into their either worldview or their understanding of maybe it opens up the door to other classical material that they think they might not care for, but maybe they want to pick up Anna Karenina and read Tolstoy or something.

You know, that that will hopefully open their hearts and minds to understanding and and participating in some other classical material.

>> Well, let me bring in someone who is in the production.

I want to bring in doctor Dawn.

Rick Starpoli is with us on the line here.

Hello, Rick Starpoli.

>> Hello.

Good to be with you, Evan.

>> Rick is a veteran performer on Rochester stages.

How's he doing in this one?

Mark Cuddy.

>> Well, I gotta say, I was very fortunate to have Rick play this really essential role who is a bit of the observer of all of the other characters.

And Rick is such a steadying presence as well as a very good actor.

in, in the play as well as a great guy in the company.

So it was he's doing great.

>> Rick, is the dictionary definition of a mensch.

He really is.

And.

you stop.

>> You stop.

>> Rick.

how much Chekhov had you experienced in your life before this production?

>> I had never actually experienced.

I mean, other than seeing it, I'd never been in a Chekhov play.

although I had been in one that was actually an adaptation of a of The Seagull.

a staged reading of it years ago.

But so my direct interaction with Chekhov was very little before this, and it was not a fear.

It was just out of, you know, lack of opportunity, I suppose.

>> What pulled you into this production, Rick?

>> I mean, I don't want to oversimplify it, but certainly Mark Cuddy, being involved didn't dissuade me.

So it really was just an opportunity to do something completely different.

I've loved community theater in Rochester, and this was something new on the scene with a capital N, and so I was really.

Yeah, it was partly Mark, partly because the Seagull has wonderful characters, and and I just was fascinated by what we could make of it.

>> Rick, we've talked this hour about the question of how to make this material relatable or whether it naturally relates to modern audiences.

The move in recent decades away from both teaching and performing the classics.

And so do you want to describe a little bit about how you see the audience reaction so far, and why you think the audiences can connect to this kind of material?

>> Oh yeah, I've really this has sort of been the topic of conversation, even in my family over the last few days.

you know, my I think maybe the most gratifying response I've gotten was was my, my father texted me and he specifically said, I don't believe I've ever seen a Chekhov play.

I couldn't I was very surprised or I forgot how he puts it, but I was surprised by how accessible and relatable it was.

And that was just I mean, that was a huge seal of approval for, for, for me, for the you know, it was he found it to be truly, you know, it was the themes that were relatable.

But also it isn't.

You know, a lot of people have fear of going to see something like Shakespeare for fear of not understanding the plot, et cetera.

Well, first of all, this translation is very, very understandable.

There's nothing concerning about it.

The plot is right there for you.

And and then you'll find that the characters look like people, you know.

so that is I've been hearing it from multiple people.

>> We've talked.

Let me ask Mark a little bit about this.

We've talked obviously a little bit about translation.

The difference with translation and adaptation this hour and why that matters.

I remember Mark when I was in probably a senior in high school reading Chaucer, and the English teacher was basically saying, if you don't get it, you know, figure it out.

I mean, it was impenetrable.

And I just remember thinking, I just remember thinking, you know, I'm 17 years old.

I've got nothing to navigate me through this.

And as hard as Shakespeare is without a guide, Chaucer is really, really hard.

So how do you balance the line between a translation that honors the source work while also making sure the modern audience can get.

>> It?

>> Yeah, well, I think Rick stated it beautifully.

these are just people and you understand the people and you relate to the people, and it's a family, and you relate to those folks, and and there's really nothing, there's nothing foreign about it.

It doesn't feel foreign.

I guess it's that it would be a good word because this is a Russian play, but it doesn't feel like that.

>> You want to add to that, Rick?

>> Except for the names.

And that is, you know.

Oh, yeah.

>> People's names.

Yeah.

We use their Russian names and that those are those are hard.

>> They're challenging.

Each person has not only their three names and they're called by two of them usually.

but then they also have their nicknames.

And it really does become fun for us.

But it can.

That's the only challenge, I think, from an audience perspective is just, you know, kind of track track that and you're going to love it.

yeah.

The translation itself is just I saw the before and after sort of a translation that we were working from for auditions, and then the translation that eventually was provided by the person Mark worked with.

And it's just it's just a beautiful translation.

It's wonderful.

>> Rick, when I think about themes of, you know, as Mark has talked about family with this show, personal relationships that are timeless is probably overused as word, but in this case, probably so probably timeless in a weird way.

There's a comfort there because the world feels so precarious right now.

It feels everything sort of feels existential.

The stakes feel really high, and a lot of what is.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And what is happening week to week, month to month right now.

And when you think about the life of Anton Chekhov, you know, as we've been talking about this prolific career that ended when he died at 44 of tuberculosis you know, his world was very different.

His concerns about the bigger societal issues would obviously have been similar in some ways and very different and very in other ways.

But the things that connect people, the issues that connect families or friendships or love interests, those are sort of timeless and in a weird way that is kind of comforting.

Is it?

Am I wrong?

Does that comfort you at all?

>> No, it does, and it's actually two kinds of themes throughout the play.

One is all of those relational stuff that that'll never change, right?

It'll never change.

And it does feel comforting.

you know, I have a nice relationship in the play.

two, two significant relationships in the play that I think are fleshed out beautifully.

but then the other part of it is the larger questions that also still exist, like, what is the meaning of good art?

What do we mean by it?

That's a question in the play, right?

What does it mean to succeed?

And how does that relate to being happy?

That's a huge you know, so so there are larger themes like that in addition to really relatable one on one interactions with human beings.

Yep.

>> Well, Rick, we appreciate the time.

and I, I hope you're having fun with it.

you're going to stay with the company.

You're going to stay with the company for the March and May performances.

>> I know I'm not part of them.

I certainly will be in the audience.

And that's one of the things I love about it, is it's you get to see kind of a real arc, I think.

But yes, I'm.

I can't wait for the announcement about next season.

>> So thank you, Rick.

We appreciate it.

We'll see you on stage.

>> Thanks so much, Evan.

By Mark.

See you later.

>> So that's just one example.

So this is your chance, Mark, before we lose the hour to talk a little bit more about the people that you get to direct here.

And it's a long list of people with a lot of experience on the Rochester.

>> So one of the decisions I made early on was to cast all three plays at the same time and to do it early.

So we had auditions last April and May and announced the casting of 33 actors across all three plays.

in June and Rick read for many, many roles, not only in The Seagull but in Three Sisters and The Cherry Orchard.

I, I was new to so many people, and I wanted to hear their voices in all the plays, and we had a very lengthy audition process.

and so ultimately I was able to put these actors in roles where they could succeed.

And I was so pleased that we had so many people audition.

And I got to do to to look at all of the roles in all three plays as those opportunities for people to go into the right slot.

And I think we did that.

>> And before we let you go here, I, I know you at least I think you're still the artistic director emeritus of Jiva, is that right?

>> Yes.

>> Yes indeed, yes indeed.

>> So you you have such obviously a connection and an affinity for Jiva.

You were there for nearly three decades and since the pandemic, we know that stages across the country have seen ups and downs when it comes to audiences coming out, subscriptions, et cetera.

Are you worried about the state of theater?

Are you worried about Jiva?

How do you how do you see things going right now?

>> I think there are challenges across the country.

And there was a lot of sea change coming out of COVID.

and pendulum swinging one way, swinging another way.

Lots of trying to figure out the right way to go and the right programing to do.

And and even, you know, seasoned professionals such as Elizabeth Williamson and James Haskins, the leaders now at Jiva you know, they they've been trying to figure it out and I'm sure they will.

but they're not alone across the country, some theaters are doing quite well.

And you know, it's it every city is a little different too.

So this community it takes some time to figure it out.

Took me a little bit of time.

and but I'm sure they will.

>> Is there something that communities can do?

Or the arts world can do to create this habit, this muscle that people get used to using, which is going to the theater?

>> yeah.

You know, we when we did a renovation of the facility in 2013, we completed it we we tried to make it a real social space.

and adding the bar and the kitchen and, you know, and opening things up to, to groups.

So, so I, I think it's just a wonderful place to find community.

So I would hope that more people would come to not only see a play, but to be with their fellow rochesterians and and have a good time.

>> Mark Cuddy, the founding artistic director of the Classics company and the artistic director emeritus from Jiva Theater, where he worked for nearly three decades.

Joining us talking about this new venture.

And it has already launched there on stage tonight through Saturday, the classics company.

Org for information on The Seagull and the rest of the season as they explore Chekhov.

Mark, thanks for making time for us.

I hope you enjoyed this run and I know we'll talk to you again soon.

>> Thanks so much.

I really appreciate it.

>> That's Mark Cuddy and we have a bit of a shift in programing coming up here.

We have the state of the state live with Governor Kathy Hochul coming up in just a few minutes for you right here.

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