Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

The Arkansas Times and Little Rock Public Radio.

And hello again, everyone, and thanks very much for being with us.

It has been a half century since a dozen nations proved that our nation's energy supply wasn't guaranteed.

Today, it's not an oil embargo that threatens our society and the economy that supports it.

Not just an embargo, but an energy shortage, we are told, is not out of the question.

And we'll take that up in just a few moments.

But first, Washington by way of Arkansas.

If November 5th was a discouraging day for Democrats, it was a Tuesday that rewarded Republicans with the presidency and the Senate while keeping the House red.

Control of both chambers by their party and the seniority system will give Arkansas six members additional leverage.

And with more on that up top in this edition, independent journalist Steve Bronner is here.

And in the nation's capital, Alex Thomas, Washington correspondent of the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

He's also host of the paper's podcast, AQIS in the Beltway.

Alex, you're on the scene, so to speak.

So we'll start with you.

And we really it's tough to know where to start because so much is going on.

But let's start with what's called the upper chamber.

Mr. Cotton, the junior senator from Arkansas, enters the leadership ladder, climbs at his third ranking now.

Yes, sir.

And that's a really interesting situation for Arkansas.

The fact that you have a member who was not part of the leadership team now joined that leadership team.

He beat Joni Ernst.

And you may wonder why is that important for Tom Cotton in his ten years up here in D.C., his building national profile, making national media appearances leading up to that November 5th election, he was on the campaign trail working to not just get 51 seats for Republicans, but 5253, trying to build that Republican majority as big as possible with that conference chair role, that number three position, he's going to be in charge of leading the messaging for Senate Republicans for at least the next two years.

That's a big deal for Senator Cotton as he continues to build his national profile.

And he seems to have made it clear no one knows for sure exactly how serious a candidate he was for a cabinet position.

But he has indicated that, no, I like the legislative branch, at least for now.

You know, we talked to him around Halloween and I asked him straight up, you know, if Donald Trump does end up going back to the White House, do you want to return to the Senate or do you want to go with him?

And Senator Cotton laughed for a moment and said, you know, I would appreciate the opportunity, but I think I could be more effective in Congress, sitting in the Senate doing my job and representing Arkansans.

That that said, though, he has, as you noted, Alex, a second ago, he has quite a few IOUs.

He's been out run out in the heartland for the last several years anyway.

Absolutely.

Working on the campaign trail, working to build up some of those Senate Republicans.

But also, keep in mind, he was flirting with the idea of running for president in 2024.

So with him being in the Senate, staying in that role, building his profile and also build up his resume for if he wants to run for president down the road, whether that's in 2000, 28, 2032, whenever that may be, he's going to have a healthy resume to present to Republicans and to other voters and the calendar is kind to him.

Steve Bronner, Mr. Cotton is young.

He is he has plenty of time, which meant he didn't have to rush running for president this time.

He has 20, 30 years or more, as we're seeing past past election cycle.

He's also been reported to be in line to be Senate chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

So we will see it.

That actually happens.

But he is definitely the number three person in the caucus.

Now that he has the bona fides, he has a resumé that lends itself to a national security or defense, a position.

Sure.

Army, a decorated Army veteran and just a very, you know, defense hawk.

No, there's no there's no there's no question about his is his bonafides in this area.

So he's in good shape.

Yeah.

Alex Thomas, back to you.

There is a lot of discussion over where and controversy over whether Mr. Trump will seek to bypass the normal order of business and use recess appointments to get some of these controversial appointments through.

Any indication regarding Mr. Cotton's position on that or Mr. Bozeman, his colleague from Arkansas?

Well, everyone's still trying to get their feet wet right now.

John Thune just became Senate majority leader, trying to prepare for the next year and one year.

I have some controversial picks, Matt Gaetz out of Florida, possibly being attorney general, Robert F Kennedy Junior leading Health and Human Services.

But right now, everyone still getting their feet wet.

We're going to reach out to our guys in the coming weeks.

Once everybody kind of gets their bearings.

It's safe to say that it's been a little bit chaotic this week as everyone's been trying to adjust back to the usual legislative congressional schedules.

But now everyone's getting a little bit antsy, a little bit squirrely, trying to figure out what they're going to do come January 3rd when that new Congress again.

Well, while we're still on the Senate side, Mr. Bozeman is about to assume a chairmanship that is once belonged to the woman that he defeated.

That's right.

He's going to become Senate Agriculture Committee chairman come January.

And as you mentioned, Blanche Lincoln served as that chair for about a year and a half before she lost to Senator Bozeman in the 2010 election cycle.

And that's a big deal for Arkansas, not just because it's an Arkansan leading the committee, which would be a big deal horse, but what happens with the farm bill.

Lawmakers were supposed to pass that just about two years ago.

They have yet to do so.

And now Senator Boozman may be holding the keys to the vehicle to get a farm bill done.

Protect Arkansas agriculture for producers.

And also, keep in mind, most of that farm bill involves nutrition programs like SNAP.

Yeah, it's it's as much or more urban than it is rural.

The farm bill.

Well, do you have a sense, Alex, of the timetable for a farm bill now?

I mean, this year's out of the question, it would seem.

Yeah.

Well, I talked to Senator Boozman back in September about this and even this week, you know, there is an interest in trying to get this done.

And that's not just among Republicans in the Senate, it's among Democrats in the Senate and both Republicans and Democrats in the House.

But the problem that they're trying to overcome here is what to do with nutrition spending and what to do with some conservation dollars from the Inflation Reduction Act.

So it's going to be interesting seeing how they play out over the next few weeks.

Before we leave Capitol Hill for the holidays.

We may see another short term extension at the same time.

So there's a lot of questions up in the air.

But the other factor here and I've talked to producers about this is they can't just get by on a lot of them.

One at BIL trying to get some relief the short term.

That way they can farm beginning next year, not have to shut down their operations.

Okay.

Let's go on to the House side.

Steve Bronner, we've got four members of the House and they are all positioned pretty nicely.

They are.

They've been here for a long time now.

President Crawford, Representative Womack have been there since 2010.

Interpretative Hill Arms of the West Wing have been there since 2000.

They were elected in 2014.

Yeah.

So for ten years for the for Crawford Womack and and ten years for Hill and Westerman and they have been flying back and forth from Washington, D.C. to their districts, toiling sometimes as the minority party when they couldn't get anything done, all for this moment when they have the seniority and the majority at the same time.

And so they're in positions now to make a real, real difference for Arkansas.

Representative Crawford is in he is seeking to chair the Transportation Infrastructure Committee, which would put him in charge of the policy side of highways, bridges, transit, rail, transportation.

And he is in line to do that if he can get if he can get elected.

And he I think he thinks he will be the current chair is term limited at the same time as sort of Womack.

Steve Womack is chair of the Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development and related agencies among the House Appropriations Committee.

This this is a committee that's so powerful that its 12 subcommittee chairman are known as cardinals after the after the Catholic Church cardinals.

So it is possible that next term, Arkansas will have the chair of the of the committee that's in charge of transportation policy and the chair of the Appropriations Committee that's in charge of funding transportation policy.

That's a neat fit.

That would be a huge deal.

Not necessarily.

Neither one of these is set in stone.

Represen Womack was a different Appropriations subcommittee chairman in the last term.

So that could be that could not happen.

But if it does, that would put Arkansas in a great position at a time when there's a lot of highway funding being being considered.

At the same time, Representative Westerman is currently charged currently in Chairman of the Transportation Infrastructure Committee excuse me, of the Committee on Natural Resources.

He's also on the Transportation Committee.

And then representing Hill is seeking to become the chair of the financial Services Committee.

So between all four of them, they all four could be committee heads at this time in a few in a few months.

Yeah.

The institutional situation looks pretty good from their standpoint, but Alex Thomas, that's a narrow majority in the House and you need 60 in the Senate to get anything done.

So are great expectations simply awaiting, waiting to be dashed here or what?

You know, I talked to Representative Westerman about this yesterday, and he acknowledges that the Republican majority is going to be just as slim next year as it is in the current Congress, and they're going to lose members.

President elect Trump has nominated current House Republicans to Cabinet positions.

So he told me day one, we got to hunker down.

We got to look down to stay on task.

Do not get distracted because the American public has handed Republicans a trifecta between the Senate and the House and the presidency.

They cannot afford to waste time by doing what they did in this current Congress with speakership battles and Republican infighting.

All right.

Steve Boehner, a guy that we've been covering here for, what, 30 years now, is off to Israel, although he's been there before.

Go to Mike Huckabee and have you named American ambassador to Israel.

This is really must be a dream come true job for the governor.

He is a lifelong supporter of Israel, a lifelong traveler to Israel.

And now he will be in the position of being able to be the primary conduit between President Trump and Israel.

So this is a big deal for him, for his family, for the governor, for Governor Huckabee Sanders.

This is a this is no doubt a job that he would and he'll be moving Israel.

This is a this is almost his second home.

So I'm sure he's very, very happy for that.

You'll be able to see what kind of policies he tries to enact, what the Trump administration does.

It's always going to be a pro-Israel administration.

What's have to see how they they navigate this difficult, incredibly difficult minefield of foreign policy?

Well, his daughter, who is now governor of Arkansas and a former employee of the of the 45th, is a soon to be 47th president.

Her position would seem to be solidified by November the fifth.

You mean she's going to stay in Arkansas?

Yeah.

And has decided.

Yeah.

Or has announced anyway that she she likes where she is for now.

She, she has.

And I don't want to read too much into this or try to imply too much.

She didn't really spend a whole lot of time on the campaign trail, at least publicly.

She was a little bit not she was not an immediate endorser of the president.

That doesn't mean she's not allied with him, continues.

It has not been allied with him.

But I think that it shows that her focus is on Arkansas and she plans to be here for a while.

Okay, Alex Thomas, we're going to we've got a few seconds remaining.

Other tea leaves to be read in any of this.

You know, I think with the governor, she said that she's very happy being where she is.

She's looking forward to her reelection effort in 2026.

I think it'll be interesting seeing what Arkansas Democrats do.

Obviously, Chris Jones has been leading some outreach with rural efforts.

So we'll see what happens with those folks.

Alex Thomas in Washington, Steve BRAWNER here.

Come back soon.

Thanks.

Thank you.

And we'll be back with more on energy in a moment.

No one or hardly anyone would question that the phase out of coal fired electric generating plants will mean a reduction in air pollution and carbon emissions.

But neither would anyone familiar with the demand for energy suggests that replacing those facilities would be effortless or painless and certainly not immediate.

But that's sort of the dynamic that's at hand in Arkansas and here to assess our options.

Lauren Waldrop, executive director of the Arkansas Advanced Energy Association.

Glenn Hooks is policy manager of Oregon Delta, and State Senator Mark Johnson of Ferndale, who sits on the General Assembly's Joint Energy Committee.

Senator, let me begin with you.

You have to keep one foot in the environmental side or another on the corporate or the economic development side.

So where are we?

This is not and this would seem to defy easy solutions, Steve.

It may not be easy.

Matter of fact, it won't be easy.

But it is simple and it's a simple thing is we have a tremendous demand for energy.

We need it for our economic growth.

A lot of our recent economic growth has been because of the fact that we are a relatively low energy cost state.

We have other advantages, too, but we don't want to forfeit that by having our electric rates go sky high.

And it's the old thing of you can't replace something with nothing.

And these are not things that you can run down to Wal-Mart and buy a generator and plug it in.

And we've we've got to make sure that our our baseload energy demand is met and at least in my opinion, the coal plant moratorium or the phasing out may be too preliminary.

And it's not saying it wouldn't be appropriate, especially on the two older plants that are in question.

But on the newer plant, the TERT plant, if swept CO, it is the cleanest, newest or one of the newest coal fired plants in the world and the emissions from it are not like the old days with the smoke billowing out.

It's a it's a different technology.

And at least until we can come up with some replacements for that, we need to make sure that we're not going to put our citizens in a situation like Texas found itself in a couple of years ago.

Yeah, they just ran out.

Glenn Hooks.

I see.

I think the right approach to energy production in Arkansas is to realize, first of all, that every thing we do to produce energy from solar to coal to gas to whatever has a negative impact on the environment.

The question is how much?

And my job is acceptable.

Yeah, and we have to realize that all of them have some negative impact.

But if we realize that what our goal should be is to pick this system and pick that the generation that gives the least impact on the environment and the most benefit to Arkansans and that in the last several years has really been solar and now increasingly wind.

In Arkansas, we are finding ways to generate significant amounts of energy from solar.

There are school districts, cities, businesses all over the state that are invested in solar, and they're finding that their rates are cheaper and they're using that money for other things.

The classic example that we use at our community is the Batesville School District invested in solar and saved so much money they were able to give significant raises to all of their public school teachers in that first year because they saved so much money.

I don't know anybody who could argue with whether that's a bad thing or a good thing.

That's a good thing that we're paying school teachers more and we're having our communities polluted less.

So having investing in solar, investing in and we're in investing in cleaner sources of energy is a very good idea.

And Senator Johnson knows this, having been in the last session, one of the things that I think we did wrong in the last session was put up barriers to more solar in the state.

I think we need more generation for sure, and we need more clean energy generation.

Absolutely.

Yeah, Helen Walton said.

We've known these coal plants are coming off line for quite some time, especially the two that are they have a life span.

That's right.

That's right.

And so, you know, we know actually, to Glen's point, so our group operates and represents our membership based on economics in what is the most economically feasible.

The good thing about renewables is that they are bipartisan.

We know they're increasingly competitive in in markets and they're an opportunity for the state.

I come from an agriculture background and so, you know, I previously was working with some rural farmers and I personally saw them adopting renewables on their operations and I didn't really know that much about it at the time, but I learned about it and, you know, I had to testify on their behalf before the Public Service Commission, and I realized that this can be a really beneficial tool to have in our toolbox for not just those farmers and landowners, but for those rural communities.

And it can also be as one solution.

Solar is never going to be a silver bullet.

But Steve, at this point, with the energy crisis that we're coming up on, nothing is going to be a silver bullet.

And so it's going to be a host of different options and technologies and programs that can help fill the gap that we are getting ready to come up on pretty soon.

Yeah, it was pretty soon.

As Senator, we are dealing with a timeline here.

That's when you stop and think about it's kind of ominous.

And Steve, I think it was a mistake from day one to set such an ominous or or ambitious.

Yes, baby's a better word.

Timeline.

I ask myself, why would they do this?

And I know that there was pressure from environmental groups to phase out coal and throwing all coal into one basket.

They're all bad, they're all the same, and they're not all the same any more than all nuclear is the same.

But I think it's time that we revisit those deadlines.

Not saying those plants have should be there forever.

As Lauren mentioned, there is a timeline they wear out.

They have to be replaced and you'll reach a point where it would be not as cost effective to keep them open as it would be to replace them with something else.

But I think that there were too many external indicators that were used to reach those decisions, probably political and ESG and things like that, that maybe we need to revisit in Arkansas and and look at a reasonable timeline.

So to make sure that we have the baseload and I'm a big fan of renewables, especially solar, I think that it's been very successful.

And as Glenn and Lauren both mentioned, the Batesville example is a good example.

We've got yeah, Walmart is is pushing this.

They probably have more acres of rooftop than anybody else in the state of Arkansas that that can can deal with solar panels.

But the point is renewables are an important part, but certainly not the only part.

And they'll help us meet our baseload demand and when it's cold and the wind's not blowing and the sun is not shining, as we dealt with during the winter storm URI debacle that hurt Texas, Arkansas squeaked by with no major problems.

It was a scary it was a wakeup call for a lot of us seeing these camps to see a scary situation.

People died in Texas because of the cold and the lack of power.

Well, let me go to Glenn Hooks with that.

I mean, we'll just take it from there.

Ambitious or ominous?

I mean, you're or something in between?

Well, these two plants that are coming off line, what's his name?

And there are two energy plants, White Bluff and Independence, that are set to come offline in 2028.

And by 2030, respectively, they shut down not for political reasons or anything like that.

It was that I was involved with another group at that point before out of Bonn that was working on coal plant issues, the Sierra Club, and we identified a significant amount of Clean Air Act violations that these plants were having and kind of got us to the settlement table with Entergy to talk about what are we going to do about this?

And if Entergy made a business decision to go ahead and take these these plant scheduled the retirement of these two big plants and, you know, avoid costly litigation and costs and a lot of fines that they were facing, a lot of these decisions, regulatory matters.

Ultimately, they are decided in the political arena.

So Senator Johnson kind of mentioned this concept of baseload, which which we used to hear a lot more frequently.

And that kind of assumes that you're going to have to have, you know, one resource available running at all times to meet your energy needs.

I think in reality we're now seeing a mix of different types of resources that when adequately planned, can come into play when necessary and we can still meet the energy needs cohesively with that suite of options like like I mentioned.

So our members and, you know, Glenn spoke to the environmental component, our members from an economic standpoint, you know, the markets are pushing them to procure and use cleaner options.

And so, you know, that's that's an economic force.

And if we can't meet those energy needs, it's going to be lost economic opportunities for the state.

We're already seeing data centers go into some of our neighboring states.

And these corporations, these homegrown Arkansas based corporations, are going to have to foot the bill for not having the the types of energy that they need.

We also know that renewables are more affordable than coal.

Now, that used to be the thing that coal hung its hat on.

It was that it was the most affordable and that's just not the case anymore.

And so these are the economic considerations that we have to consider when we're planning our resources.

Yeah.

Senator Johnson, The General Assembly sits in just weeks, as you see any kind of shift at all, that in response to Mr. Hook, sir, I mean, any shift in environmental policy, Let me kind of go back a little bit and explain kind of where I came from on this.

I supported the original net metering legislation that that Glen in Lawrence supported the amendments to that in the last session in 2023.

I opposed those.

I thought we made a deal with the industry and the utilities flex their muscle after they had agreed to the deal, and we found ourselves, I think, reneging on the deal.

I voted against it.

I was pretty vocal about that.

But it's because not just the industry, but individuals that are wanting to put solar panels on their home or whatever need to have a trust that the government's not pulling the rug out from under them on the the way that the energy is metered now, I and Glen and I agree on many things and one of those, of course, being need for nuclear.

We need to go back to they're developing smaller, more efficient and standardized nuclear plants which can meet that baseload need.

But where we disagree is that we can fill that gap totally with renewable.

I don't think we can.

But most important thing is that we have reliable and that we do this in a methodical manner to make sure that, as I said, we can't we can't replace something with nothing.

And unfortunately, there is a lead time to develop these new sources.

They they do take a while to build.

So they definitely take a while to build.

And so the right time to build these things was, you know, starting ten years ago.

Right?

The second best time to build them is now.

We should have been on this a long time ago.

And probably a related thing that's a good idea to bring up now is the need for more electric transmission capacity in this state.

One of the things that is really troubling right now is that Arkansas, our home state, is in our region, the number one state with the most clean energy projects waiting in the queue, waiting to get online and put clean energy on the grid, something in the nation of 38 gigawatts, which for those of you who aren't in the energy industry, Gigawatt is a 1000 megawatts seconds remaining.

So we need more electric transmission capacity in the state because the only thing keeping these clean energy projects from feeding clean energy into the grid at that massive amount is a lack of transmission capacity.

You have a lead time.

It takes more than a decade to put a transmission project together.

We should have been on this a long time ago and now I know Lauren's group and my group at we really pushing for well sited, well-thought-out, well-planned transmission that can bring more clean energy onto the grid and and bring the economic development that comes along with that problem with many places.

So the three of you, thank you very much for coming in.

Come back soon and we'll continue the conversation.

And that's our broadcast for this week.

As always, we thank you for watching and see you next week.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, The Arkansas Times and Little Rock Public Radio.