Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

The Arkansas Times and KUER FM 89 at Hello again everyone.

Thanks very much for being with us.

The week began with a prominent Arkansas Republican changing his mind, deciding the race for governor had less appeal than it once did.

Will go over that with our political roundtable in just a few minutes along with some matters of interest.

Some other matters of interest from the legislative session.

First one of those matters.

I build it with eliminate sworn affidavits as a substitute.

Or photo identification before voting.

Supporters say the build is important to election integrity.

Opponents say it's real intent is to disenfranchise to depress voting.

Sharp difference of opinion along party lines.

It sailed through the house and now awaits action and Senate Committee.

Republican Representative Mark Lowry of Maumelle is the bill's primary sponsor, Democratic Senator Clark Tucker of Little Rock is, shall we say, sceptical gentleman thanks very much for coming aboard.

Mr Lowry.

We'll begin with you.

Your case for the bill.

Why is this necessary?

Well, I think the main reason is that when the constitutional Amendment, the referred amendment went to the voters in 2018, they actually voted by 80% for a pure voter ID bill.

The only reason we have the sworn statement as a substitute is that was in 2017, legislation that I passed, and so I'm really trying to return this to what the voters actually approved and what I think will be less problematic because there is no uniform standard for signature verification and so.

There were a number of problems in Pulaski County.

I think we've also seen issues in other parts of the country where there were concerns about signature verification.

Well, if it has been described the legislation as a as a bill in legislation in solution in search of a problem, your response.

Well, I don't think that it's in search of a problem at all.

There actually was a significant problem in Pulaski County where it took almost three weeks, maybe a little bit longer than that, to go through all these provisional ballots, most of them because of sworn statements.

And, you know, we had one race actually overturned the servillo Ashley Hudson Race because more and more of those absentee ballots that had sworn statements started being counted.

And it was just extremely problematic, and we think that this will clean it up, but ultimately result well.

Senator Tucker.

Your response.

Your thoughts.

Well, first let me say for the record that you know, I believe as strongly as possible as I can in the integrity of the election system.

And that means not having any voter fraud on the other side.

It also means allowing every American citizen who's registered to vote in Arkansas lawfully registered to be able to cast their ballot in 2020 alone.

We know of at least about 2700 voters who cast their ballot, and they did so through the use of a sworn statement.

There's not any evidence at all that.

A single one of those votes was fraudulently cast, you know, on the other side of the Ledger.

We have three cases of voter fraud in Arkansas now last 20 years.

So just in 2020 alone, we had 2700 voters who would be disenfranchised for their.

Those votes would be disenfranchised if this law were to pass.

And so you know, I want to strike the balance of eliminating voter fraud as much as possible.

I believe very strongly in that, but also allowing people who are American citizens and register to vote to lawfully cast their ballots well and this.

Or in One Direction, but it's also said by the Bills advocates.

That it would go a long way toward restoring public confidence in the election process.

Your thoughts?

Well, again, I think that it hurts public confidence in election process when you have people who are American citizens lawfully register, vote unable to cast their ballots.

And you know if we actually had more cases of voter fraud in Arkansas more than three in the last 20 years, then I could see more merit in that argument.

But, but we really don't have widespread voter fraud in Arkansas, which is a positive.

I don't want to do anything to create the potential for more voter fraud and.

In fact, I have a bill on file related absentee ballots that if State Board of Excuse me the County Board of Election Commission system that any absentee ballot was fraudulent, fraudulently cast and they have to report that to the prosecuting attorney.

So I don't want to do anything to open the possibility of fraud up at all.

But at the same time, when we're creating barriers for people to legally cast their votes, we have a bad history of that in this country and we don't need to do anything to, you know, keep doing that, yeah Mr. Larry, would you acknowledge that voter fraud?

In Arkansas has been pretty rare.

Well, see one of the reasons why I have not even mentioned the word fraud is because this is really not about fraud.

It is about increasing the confidence in the integrity of the ballot.

You know, in many cases one of the reasons we don't know about how much fraud that might be out there is that prosecutors are actually very reluctant to to set cases on fraud, especially if there's not any direct evidence that it really would have affected.

The outcome of the race but still fraud is fraud and it should be investigated.

It should be prosecuted, whether it changed the race or not, but this issue is about making sure that we have a uniform standard which the voter ID is a photo ID.

That's a uniform standard.

Verify verification of signatures signatures is not.

Alright, Mr Tucker, I'll give you the last.

We want to hit another couple of issues but I'll give you the last word on this one.

You know there are other uniform standards we could have that would create even more berries for people to vote.

We've had other barriers in American history, poll tax or whatever the case may be.

I'm not suggesting that you know Representative Lowry, who was very much respect on a personal level.

Is is intentionally trying to create those barriers?

But the fact is, just because the standard is uniform doesn't mean that it's good, and then it will ensure that we have voter integrity, and that every American who's lawfully registered vote is able to vote so.

That's not the standard we should be looking for.

The standard is to restrict fraud as much as possible, and to enable as many American citizens to lawfully cast their ballots as possible.

Alright, well, we'll stay with Mr. Tucker, just so I can give you the first word on this issue, and that's tax policy.

Of course, it's still fairly early in the session, but where do you see it going?

What's where's this sentiment?

Well, I think you know we've we've already passed one bill out of the Senate that.

The unemployment benefits that people received in 2020 would be exempt from state income tax.

Write another bill.

That's going to most likely have overwhelming support from both parties.

Is the PPP loans that businesses received in 2020 will be exempt from state income tax, so I think those will pass through.

I think the tax cut that Governor Hutchinson has proposed for to raise the exemption for the sale of used cars very likely will have broad support.

Beyond that, I really don't know where it's going to go.

I know the governor's proposed low a tax cut for the lower income earners in Arkansas.

Personally, I would love to see that move in the direction of an earned in.

Income tax credit, which was, you know, something that Ronald Reagan described as the most pro job Creation, Pro family, anti poverty policy ever to come out of Congress and we know it would stimulate Arkansas's economy and pull more federal EITC dollars down from DC.

So I would love to see it move in that direction.

Sure, Mr Lowry, on the matter of any ITC is as opposed to a cut your thoughts.

Well, I really haven't heard a lot of discussion of that over on the House side, but I think that the cut really is probably the number one thing that we should be supporting as well as the raised exemption on used car taxes, because that most affects those who are in the middle class or lower middle class, because typically they're going to be buying more of the of the used cars.

And if we can actually raise the the amount of car that they could purchase without having to set.

Pay sales tax.

That's going to be a huge benefits.

Can put more money into their pockets.

OK, and I think we've got about a minute remaining in this segment gentlemen.

So Mr. Larry, I'll start with you the 1619 legislation and its companion bill, which failed in committee.

Or you pulled one of them down this past week.

Do you see that coming back in a subsequent session or?

Or what well HB 1218 has not been pulled down yet, but it is my intention to pull that down and it dealt dealt primarily with critical race theory.

The 1619 project I. I think that there was a lot of sentiment that that it is not accurate history there.

It may have been problematic the way the bill was written that I did not specifically say that it was banned as a history curriculum.

But just said as a curriculum and and so there there is some excellent writing in the the New York Times piece, but it is not accurate history.

The main problem is that that it just really casts our history inaccurately of saying that everything in our history is based on why depression, and I think that that's extremely divisive.

I have some other plans of legislation that that I'm probably going to be filing this this session that will actually give parents the.

More rights and then being able to review curriculum and then make decisions of whether they want their children participating in some of these divisive activities.

Mr. Tucker unfair.

But I've got about 15 seconds and it's yours.

Well, thank you, I you know I'm working on some legislation that I think would.

Back to what we were talking about with representative lotteries.

Bill is still let people vote absentee or in person as as legally and simply as possible.

I'm doing it's too complicated for 15 seconds, but but anyway, I'm working to ensure the integrity of our election process to enable as many people to vote as possible on some of those bills.

And I hope we can pass some of those through the legislature.

Gentlemen, both of you.

Thank you very much for being with us.

Thank you and come back soon will be right back.

And we're back slightly smaller field in the Republican gubernatorial primary, though.

That could change, and some assessments of the legislative session.

Our roundtable.

Former Speaker Jeremy Gillam, now with the University of Central Arkansas.

Jay Barth, political science professor Emeritus Hendrix college.

Andrew Demillo is Capitol Bureau chief of the AP Andrew to you.

First, we have a slightly smaller GOP field in the race for governor.

The Lieutenant governor decided the better race would be AG.

Yeah, that's that's correct.

Lieutenant Governor Griffin dropped out of the gubernatorial race and is now running for attorney general.

He was the first person to get into the governor's race.

He had $1.8 million that he had raised and he had some pretty notable endorsements, including two of the states sitting sitting Congressman.

But he was in a race that had quickly been overshadowed by former White House press secretary Sarah Sanders.

Getting into into the race, and this happened, yeah, exactly 2 weeks after she had announced her candidacy.

And this is an indication of how much of a challenge that that race is going to be for.

Other that other candidates right now, given Sanders name Recognition, fund raising ability, leaves, Attorney General Rutledge as the only other candidate in the race.

But as you alluded to, we still don't know what's going to happen with State Senator Jim Hendron, who was thinking about running but is also left left open.

The possibility of running as an independent well.

Is there a path forward for any of our panel?

Is there a path forward for someone who has?

Seemingly moved to the left, or at least to the center anyway, as much as Senator Hendron.

Jay, well, I I think it is very challenging.

I I personally think that you know the Republican primary electorate has become increasingly, you know, populist, ideologically, but also geographically really moved away from Northwest Arkansas, where where Mr Hendron is base is an Little Rock where historically a lot of Republican voters are now.

It's a much more rural electorate and I think that is a Trump.

East electret in the Republican primary an obviously Sarah Huckabee Sanders credentials with that electorate are pretty darn good.

As the Lieutenant governor's actions this week showed because he's a real fighter.

I've known him a long time.

He fights hard.

If he had seen a pathway to winning the governor's race, he would have stayed in that race.

Speaker Gillum, picking up where Jay left off there.

This does seem to be a even with the former president in the dock, so to speak.

A second time.

His is the most powerful name it would appear in Arkansas politics.

Or would you disagree?

No, I agree, and I think Jay hit the nail on the head there with Lieutenant governor and looking at that path forward.

Not to say there isn't one.

You know there's there's a lot of folks within the Republican Party that you know might want to kind of move back towards center, right?

A little bit there.

But as it stands right now, when you look at the landscape around the state, I think Jay's analysis is correct that it still holds tremendous sway over the electorate than it would be.

It would be a.

It would be an uphill battle for sure.

Well, there every week there's going to be a primary or so it appears at a minimum a primary for for attorney general.

How's that shaping up?

Andrew.

You know, it's still.

It's still being developed right now with with Lieutenant governor getting into the race.

There are now two candidates for Attorney general in the Republican side.

Cody Hiland, who is the former US Attorney for Eastern District, is also thinking, I think about running as well so you know this, this could be just as crowded of other primary as we're seeing with the with the gubernatorial race.

Right now, Griffin Griffin is already touting some high profile endorsements.

Including South Dakota's governor, I think was the most recent one, so he's trying to still kind of build off of the attention that he had gotten from the governor's race that to anybody on the panel.

It occurs to me just now that the only attorney general who has been able to successfully use that office as a springboard.

Well, I mean, there was there was Mr. Tucker back in the back in the 70s and also rather more recently, Mr Beebe, but these constitutional officers haven't haven't given the incumbents much traction when they.

When they've tried to move up, you see that changing.

Jeremy.

Well, I think it it could moving forward.

You know each cycle is going to be a little bit different and you know and so I definitely think that the name ID that having especially for the Lieutenant governor you know going into the AG's race and then coming from that.

It does provide a statewide platform to continue that name, ID, you know, path forward and so I definitely think it could work in in any of their respective races.

Being able to springboard up a little bit.

Yeah Jay Barth, yeah well a couple of things.

First off, you know Mr. Griffin could take that.

The money that he raised at 1.8 million that Andrew mentioned earlier and transfer it to the AG's race.

So he's clearly got a big advantage going into that race.

Although you know, I think Cody Hiland in particular would be a formidable opponent.

I do think that you know.

Looking forward, I think we're probably moving away from an era where there was this kind of orderliness of candidates.

Officeholders kind of moving up a ladder in an orderly fashion.

I think you know as as so how could be Sanders candidacy denotes you can really come from outside.

Leslie Rutledge also came, she had obviously been involved in politics, but she had never held office before.

But she moved into a very high level office, so I think we're going to see more candidates from the outside having the ability.

If they can raise money and have name recognition, they can, you know, just you know.

Get catapult themselves into a high high office.

Yeah, one other thing too.

I would note and that's term limits there was.

There was an error when you could be Secretary of State forever or Land Commissioner forever.

And now it's it's up or literally up or out after eight years.

Indeed, and we're starting to see some of this kind of movement.

Chairs around.

Constitutional officers somebody's going to get land on the floor, but we don't know who.

Yeah Andrew, it was an interesting week in committee anyway, and then went on the floor too.

But let's start with committee social Conservatives.

It would have seemed going into the session would be prepared to feast on a couple of curriculum matters.

The 6916 nineteen project from based on the New York Times piece and they more or less a companion piece of legislation.

But no.

Yeah, that's correct.

We could solve this kind of playing out.

The kind of this reckoning with how race and slavery is taught in schools on both ends of the cat and both ends of the Capitol this week.

The House Education Committee pretty handily defeated a bill that would have prohibited the 1619 project, which is the New York Times project.

Looking at the ongoing legacy of slavery would have prohibited from being taught in public schools.

This is Bill that actually we're seeing in several states right now.

Several Republican States and it's coming from some Republicans who have criticized 1619 project have pointed out some criticism from some historians of it, but it's has overwhelming opposition from historians, teachers, students and even the Education Secretary here who both cited First Amendment issues as well as the local control issue.

The statement issuing mandates on what can and can't be.

Taught in schools.

Yeah, of course things were Mr Lowry's legislator Mr Lowry, with principal sponsor on on on those bills.

But there was also some concern expressed about the General Assembly dictating curriculum policy.

Now it.

It has done so in the past, not always to lasting nor good effect J. Yeah, I'll speak from a, you know, former State Board of Education perspective.

You know, I think there is an ongoing debate about who should make the calls regarding regarding curricular issues.

I mean, should it be elected officials?

Should it be appointed officials like those on the state Board or should it be the subject matter experts who are the career specialists who are really at the at the Department of Ed, and I think that's a really interesting ongoing conversation.

And it it that dance ends up in different places on different.

Issues I thought this issue was particularly interesting.

It really did pull a very strong informal coalition together against this.

This legislation is Andrew suggested and there weren't many, many friends for the legislation.

By the time the vote came came down and you know, as someone who has actually used part of the 1619 project in a classroom, it's a it's not that not that.

I agree with it are wholly or anything, but it really is an effective way of promoting conversation and that's what you know classrooms are supposed to be.

Are really good venues for good critical thinking.

In this case, we have a piece of 1619 project that's not been used in many classrooms at all.

I think especially at the K12 level in Arkansas, but I thought the the the Secretary of Education, you know surprisingly close, very emphatic Lee.

Against this legislation, that's that was surprising, especially because of the shared partisanship of those in the administration and the legislator who was putting this forward.

Yeah, and full friends.

Full disclosure after the fact.

Jay Barth, a former member of the State Board of Education, Mr. Speaker in your years in the General Assembly, I think.

Anyway, during your tenure, there were some attempts in the General Assembly, some legislation to specify curriculum or alter curriculum, always a touchy business.

It is and I think you always kind of wind up looking at the dynamic of the functionality versus the the principle or the policy that's actually behind you behind it.

The intent and and that's where I think you know a lot of issues came about with the committee members this time around, but previously you know they're they're they sided with the ability to actually, you know, introduce.

You know civics, mandates and other things.

So, as Jay alluded to, you know the dance comes out different.

You know a different points and and so it's almost like a case by case basis and this time around they decided that they did not want to move forward with this because of the functionality issues that were brought up during the committee process and and the discussions.

Even prior to that and leading into the committee creation science, anyone well onto another issue?

And that's the decorum of the General Assembly, even in fevered times of both chambers have have maintained.

Andrew, at least a surface collegiality and there was a bit of a of a breach in that standard this past week in the Senate.

Yeah, that's correct.

We saw a pretty stunning exchange in the Senate when they were debating a resolution that was kind of similar to the 1619 project bill that was overwhelmingly rejected because it was criticized for members of both parties as being misleading, an unnecessarily partisan and toward the end of the debate on it.

Senator Stephanie Flowers, who was participating remotely, referred to, referred to another senator.

Using a swear using a swear word, I won't repeat it here.

And Senator was Republican Senator Trent Garner that immediately first syllable.

But go ahead, yeah yeah.

And then there were three letters after that, the and immediately there was a motion to censure her over it, which no one can recall that happening, at least at least 40 years in the Senate, and she was censured.

And then the following day she was suspended from 2 committees that she serves on.

For for three days, and this was kind of an indication of just how he did things.

Have been getting in the legislature relatively early on an, especially as we're seeing more hot button issues.

Very conservative issues come up and the debate we're seeing over them and you even saw the Senate President Jimmy Hickey kind of implore and beg members to kind of watch their actions.

Watch their words.

So I think there's a concern beyond just this one exchange, but it was.

We're relatively unprecedented there.

Yeah, and Jeremy Gillam do usually to Andrews Point usually.

When tempers flared, it was fairly late in the session.

Yes, this has been accelerated significantly, and you see that tension happening on the House side.

Not to grief, you've seen it on the Senate side, but I think some of that was the starting point of some of the personalities and different factions within the Senate that may be accelerated a little bit more on their end, but it looks as if God is going to intervene here on on help out the speaker and the Senate President with this weather and give everybody a chance to kind of, you know, go back home and catch their breath and.

Hopefully reset come back in a much more civil and congenial manner when they reconvene.

After this weather passes.

Yeah Angie.

Both no one would question that the gentlewoman from pan from Pine Bluff is a is a passionate politician passionate in her issues?

Yeah indeed, but I really want to, you know, I think there's a noticeable thread through a lot of these issues we've talked about with the legislature.

Is the is the lingering power of race?

In shaping the interpersonal dynamics, but the issues that are front and center an you know in many ways.

Of course, race ties back to our original sin as a nation and as a state, and it's it's a potent force and it really has's course been over the resolution that was being debated here.

The 1619 project even stand your ground, which I think clearly had a racial component as well.

I think this has been a a very.

A legislative session in which which race has very much been front and center in in our in the debates in the in the legislature, in a way that.

I can't remember it being so pronounced for for a couple of generations, right?

And quite likely we have not seen the end of it, nor have we seen the end of you three gentlemen, at least in terms of this program.

Although this particular edition, while we're out of time, thanks for coming aboard.

As always, thanks to you for watching.

See you next week.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

The Arkansas Times and KUER FM 89.