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The Arkansas Times and Little Rock Public Radio.

And hello again, everyone, and thanks very much for being with us.

He has spent longer than a dozen years in the state House of Representatives, almost half of them as speaker.

Coming up, a conversation with the man who soon will leave the speaker's chair and return to his seat on the floor.

First, the primary mission of every General Assembly to include the one that begins short weeks from now.

It's the budget State government's multibillion dollar spending plan.

The debate, such as it may be officially began Thursday morning when Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders went before a legislative committee to propose a six and a half billion dollar general revenue budget for the coming fiscal year.

That's an increase of about 182 million that begins next July.

I look forward to working with our legislature to increase spending by only 2.89%.

The added funding is directed toward areas we have all agreed are priorities education, maternal health, public safety and government efficiency.

As you all know, education and freedom accounts go universal.

Next school year.

Thanks to our hard work to pass the Learns act for the first time in state history, we are empowering parents to make the decision about where their child can best learn.

Interest in the EFA program is high and it's not a surprise.

Six and a half billion.

Andrew Demelo of the Associated Press, our bureau chief, is with us.

Capital Bureau Chief.

Andrew, thanks for coming in.

Thanks for having me.

Six and a half billion.

Yeah.

You know, it's about a nearly 3% increase in in spending with, you know, half of that going toward the education freedom Accounts, the school voucher program, and another $90 million being set aside as a reserve for the for the voucher program.

And, you know, that's where a lot of the discussion was yesterday.

And I think we may see more discussion about that in the coming session.

Yeah, the education, the public education established today, if you will, just loves that program.

The you know, I think you're going to have a lot of discussion.

You're one of the loudest critics of the voucher program.

Jim Wooten had a lot of questions for Jim Hudson, the head of DFA, you know, about about the programs he's very skeptical about their claims that they can they can do both.

They can do educational adequacy and still fund public schools adequately and also do the full roll out of this program.

This is going to be fully phased in in the 2025, 20, 26 school year.

So I think you're going to hear a lot more of the questions from him and also from a Democrats and from others who really have concerns about this and are really skeptical about the administration's claims.

Yeah.

Well, of course, as you note, Mr. Wooten has been skeptical of this from the absolute and vocal.

Very vocal about it, too, from from the start.

And but we've also been hearing in recent weeks from the rural school superintendents who are voicing some skepticism as to whether they will be held harmless by this plan.

So opposition, it's more vocal, if not necessarily more powerful at this point.

Yeah.

You know, and I think, you know, the you know, some of the rural areas, you've you've heard those concerns before, you know, about what impact it's going to have on their schools, especially in terms of areas that don't have the access to to private schools as well to you know, the learns act that passed last year and sort through that.

Yeah.

And you know and and so I think that's kind of an indication but I think some of the budget discussions and some of the uncertainty that's being raised about it by critics is at least going to put a spotlight on this issue and really, really focus really focus on it, especially when you see some of the other questions that have come up in other states with similar voucher like programs.

Yeah, And part of it, too, is the aid to parochial schools.

Well, it amounts to aid to parochial schools.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think so.

You know, I think you'll see some of the questioning and some of the questioning about that and I think some of the concerns about the, you know, some of the roll out of of the program.

So anyhow, I think they'll also be kind of larger questions just about learning the learns as a whole and, you know, how it's how it's being administered.

So, you know, I think you will see that.

You know, I think your line of questioning was kind of what you're going to end up seeing a lot of from the from critics during this session, which it may not necessarily, you know, slow down or block the governor's proposal for this increased funding, but at least, you know, say, you know, put more of a spotlight on it and may, you know, at least give kind of a platform for for critics to kind of point out these concerns about what this means going forward and whether this is going to be sustainable in the long run.

More and more, there is a willingness to at least raise those questions anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they in the previous session, there was health care, another big one, I think huge responsibility of state government and and the governor.

Her message made note of maternal health.

She had a task force.

It did not.

But no word on the Medicaid expansion for maternal health benefits.

Yeah, and, you know, the governor has has opposed the the the expansion of of those of those of those benefits before postpartum.

Yeah.

Postpartum benefits.

But her budget includes, you know, around the I think $13 million for some of these proposals that came from this task force that she had put together where she had said, you know, you know, basically it said these are areas that she'd rather focus on that she thinks that have have a bigger impact.

You know, there's going to be another run at trying to get the expand expanded benefits through.

I think we've already seen legislation on that.

And the fact that Arkansas is kind of the holdout state on this.

There may be more discussion on it.

I think, you know, you're also going to see discussion about Medicaid as a whole.

You know, there is a $100 million in surplus money that was set aside and we're going into session where there's kind of uncertainty about Medicaid throughout the country.

We have a new presidency coming, coming in.

And, you know, Republicans have supported things like block grants, you know, trying again, to with work requirements for Medicaid.

So that uncertainty may kind of shades some of the discussion and Arkansas and other states that want to enact these measures may be kind of in a holding pattern to see what gets through.

What can they do and what is their support for, you know, in the legislature?

Yeah, there was some discussion that well, as you mentioned, there was some discussion in committee yesterday about the possibility of significant changes from Washington, from a new presidential administration.

But it wouldn't be imminent.

It would take time to make that so.

Everyone has a bit of breathing room, at least at the state level.

Yeah.

And, you know, you're looking at it, you know, policymakers, I mean.

Yeah.

And you're looking at a president who's come in and, you know, has proposed major changes.

He has, you know, proposed abolishing the department of Education, you know, has has proposed these major changes in Medicaid.

But it's going to require legislation at the federal level.

There's going to be going to be rulemaking.

So that really, you know, kind of, you know, puts them, you know, in the holding pattern on it to figure out what's the timeline on it, what's going what's going to get through.

So you may not see some of these major changes get through.

Or if you do, you may at least see kind of just the initial discussion and kind of a waiting game to see what happens for Washington.

Yeah.

The loyal opposition, the decidedly minority Democratic Party in both chambers anyway, immediately announced reservations or at actually opposition, I think, to some key elements of the administration's program.

But it's not enough they can do to slow it down unless they can bring some Republicans along.

Yeah, you know, I think when you look at the numbers right now, you know, this is an overwhelmingly a Republican legislature.

So Democrats, you know, they're their biggest hope right now is at least, you know, if they can't find areas of bipartisan support and there may be some areas like, you know, some of the opposition to the no to vouchers, but even that's going to be difficult in terms of in terms of fighting that they can at least kind of, you know, try to put a spotlight on things.

I think you saw that the, you know, the first day of the filing period.

HOUSEMAN already leader Andrew Collins, filed just, you know, a flurry of bills and in some of the areas that they've talked about.

But their concern overall in the budget is what you would expect.

You know, they're concerned about the amount of money going toward the education freedom accounts.

They're concerned about the impact of the tax cuts that have been have been enacted.

And they're worried that these this money is basically could could be going toward other needs that have not been funded at the levels that they say need to be.

Over the past few years, looking back at the first couple of years of Ms.. Sanders tenure, she got just about everything she wanted except major changes to the FOIA.

Will she?

What's the thinking out there now or the mood out there now?

Is the legislature still as amenable as it was?

Yeah, I think she's still in the honeymoon.

The I think somewhat you know, I think the you know, the pushback that there was which I think took it took some legislative leaders off guard in terms of the widespread changes, you know, cutting off a huge amount of public records from the public.

You know, I think may still be a difficult sell.

You know, she was able to get some things through in terms of travel records, security records, and that was a lot more of kind of a narrower argument in terms in terms of safety.

So I think some changes, if they if they're framed that way, might might be able to get through.

We haven't seen anything from that in terms of a proposal from her.

We don't know if she's going to pursue that.

But I know there are some lawmakers who would be open.

It would be open to further changes.

I don't know if it would be, you know, kind of the wholesale cutting off of records that we saw a push for previously.

Yeah.

And there was an immediate pushback and and not just from the media, but from other elements, the corporate community as well, like the bar.

Yeah.

And, you know, and even the conservative activists, you know, appearing before it before them saying, you know, this is you know, these are records that are generated by you know, by the governments paid for by tax tax dollars.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I think some some of that pushback, they I think they were somewhat surprised by that, that it wasn't just a just a media pushback over this.

All right.

Andrew Trimmel of the Associated Press, thanks for coming in.

Thank you.

And we'll have you back and we'll take a break and come back in a moment with the speaker.

And we're back.

Matthew Shepard's time at the state capitol began 14 years ago with his first term as a state representative from Eldorado.

For the past six years, he has been the presiding officer of the house, the first member to serve three terms as speaker.

Come the turn of the year, Matthew Shepard will surrender the chair, but not his district.

Having chosen to step aside as speaker while continuing as one of the chamber's senior most members.

Speaker Shepard joins us now for some thoughts on the state of the state and its legislature.

Mr. Speaker, thanks very much, as always, for coming in.

Well, thanks for having me, Steve.

Why step aside?

Well, as you alluded to, I've served as speaker for three terms, a little over three terms as I filled out Speaker Gilliam's term.

So I've been speaker for six and a half years.

That's longer than anybody else in the history of the state.

And ultimately, even though, you know, having support for for another term, I just felt like it was the right thing to do.

I know Speaker designate Evans is going to do a great job.

And I like the idea of of being able to serve my final term and represent my district from the House floor.

And I think it'll be a great opportunity as well for Speaker designate Evans to leave the House and it will be your final term because you are for a while anyway, it will be your final two.

Conceivably you could go back, but that's correct.

It will be my final term under the term limits that have been put in place that it's kind of changed over time.

But for my class, this would be our final term.

You can sit out for four years and then potentially run for the legislature in the future.

But I look forward to serving my final term, excited for the opportunity.

It's always a great honor any time you have the opportunity to get to represent your constituents in Little Rock.

Looking back on it, what is there something that you would single out one, two or three things that you would single out that, yeah, we got this done?

Well, there's a lot of things I've started just over the last few months.

I've started as I think about things that we've accomplished or issues that we've dealt with, start kind of making notes on my phone, just have things that we've been able to do.

It's hard to narrow it down, but I would say that probably the top two or three things, one I think of when I was elected speaker and I was elevated to speaker when Speaker Gillum took a job here at Ukiah, the big discussion was ethics.

And you'll recall that we had in the legislature, we had some former members that had done some things wrong.

And so that was really the most pressing issue.

And at the time, what I committed to was to really set that standard for the legislature to hold ourselves accountable, to do things that the right way to do, things that are legal, moral and ethical and not just that, but to to to also make sure that that all of our appearances in terms of how we conduct ourselves are at the highest standard.

And I think that we've been able to set that standard.

It's not just personal to me, but really with our leadership team and throughout the House, I think that you've seen a commitment to that.

And so first and foremost, if we don't if we're not doing things the right way, if we're not doing things ethically, then all the other stuff doesn't matter.

And so I'm really proud of that.

Beyond that, we've cut a lot of taxes.

We've allowed Arkansans to keep more of what they earn.

We've passed some of the biggest tax cuts in the history of the state.

The top rate when I came into the House was 7%.

Now it's down to 3.9%.

We provided relief to, you know, all Arkansans.

And and then on top of that, I think back to we've really tried to address highway funding.

You know, that as you know, every two years there was always this discussion about how are we going to fund our highways.

You haven't had that discussion in the last several years because we've been able to really address that.

We've been able to, at least in the near term, been able to provide the funding that's necessary.

And so those are the things that really stand out.

But I could sit here all day and talk about the things that that not just my not just I've been a part of, but the legislature has been a part of over the last number of years to really improve the lives of all Arkansans.

Regrets, I don't know.

There's probably things here.

There were maybe in hindsight, I wish I would have handled things differently, but generally I try to look ahead and try to learn from any mistakes that maybe we've made along the way.

And so there's nothing that I would sit back and say that that is a regret because all those things, ultimately it's a learning process in life and certainly in the legislature, you learn from those things and it's been great to be able to work with with the membership across the board.

Well, feel free now to to discuss those things that you might have done differently, as you put it, or.

Well, you know, I don't I don't as I sit here today, I think that you can always do a better job communicating.

I think that when you look to the legislature, whenever there generally flare ups in the General Assembly or at the Capitol, it comes back to either a miscommunication, a lack of communication.

And so I think there's always room for improvement.

There.

We've tried to be very transparent with how we've handled things from a leadership perspective.

We've tried to and one of the things I should have mentioned that I'm really proud of is that we've created greater transparency when it comes to the committee processes and that now virtually all of our committees are being streamed online.

And I think that's a real benefit because that allows folks all across the state of Arkansas to be able to tune in and see the legislature at work.

And that also helps to it helps the legislature from the standpoint of being able to get the feedback from our constituents across the state.

Yeah, in terms of communications, I'm just surmising here, there is almost inevitable.

It is inevitable.

There are tension between the chambers, House and Senate, Senate and House.

Does that fall into that category communication or just simply differing values, Their differing approaches?

Well, it's it's I think it's a challenge.

When you're in the legislature, you have 135 members, 100 on the House and 35 on the Senate.

And there's always going to be there's always going be some tension.

It's part of our part of our system of government.

There's always going to be a bit of tension between House and Senate.

I've I've been very pleased with our ability to work with the Senate.

We've and that I think that if you look at the Arkansas legislature, you see that there is there's good camaraderie across the board and that we're able to come together not just in the House, but from the House and Senate perspective, we're able to come together for the benefit of the people of Arkansas.

You know, one of the challenges, I think, from a leadership perspective is that is is being a part of the process of having the meetings and and working through policy discussions.

You can't have all 135 folks there at the same time.

Right.

So there's always this discussion.

There's always at the Capitol, there's always you know, there's always folks that speculate, oh, what's what what discussions are going on here?

What have I not been a part of?

And so, you know, one of the things that we tried to do from my leadership team perspective is try to make sure that people know what's going on.

We put those those broad policy is we took up big issues.

We tried to make sure that everybody had an opportunity to debate those issues.

One of the things that was really important to me is to have that debate, to have that discussion that we could take a vote.

Maybe we disagree, maybe their votes on both sides of the issue.

But then kind of going back to my background as a lawyer is that, you know, you debate it, you take the vote and then you move on to the next issue.

And so that's one of the things that I'm really proud of in terms of that civility, the consensus we've been able to generate and also to be able to take on issues day in and day out in terms of fiscal policy.

Well, Thursday morning, we got a new budget proposal from for the coming body.

We don't have by any means anymore, but for the coming fiscal year in July from the governor, she submitted a new budget.

Your first thoughts on that?

You've got to tackle that in January.

Well, well, for that matter, hearings on the but that's right.

You know, I think it's a very conservative and fiscally responsible budget.

And I think that it addresses some of the needs that we have as a state and that I think that it's something that it's going to be, well, manageable.

I think it's going to be well received by the General Assembly.

There's always going to be discussion about issues here.

There.

I don't know that there's anything that stands out as as maybe a glaring point of debate.

I think it's going to be well received.

Speaker designate Evans will get the opportunity to to take the lead on that in the House.

But, you know, I think that it's consistent with I think one of the things that you've seen from the General Assembly is to try to put forth a conservative budget that allows Arkansas to be strong for for our fiscal house, to be strong for us to be able to to continue to have the opportunity to cut taxes while at the same time we've been able to build up a catastrophic reserve fund and be able to provide the essential services in a more efficient fashion.

Yeah.

What about communication between the General Assembly, the leadership, or.

And the second floor, the governor's office?

Are you satisfied with that?

I I've, I've been satisfied with that.

I've I've enjoyed working with Governor Sanders, fellow Washtenaw graduate.

And she I think she's done a great job leading our state.

I think that, you know, now that she's approaching the third year of her governorship, you know, I expect that we're going to see more bold ideas put forth by her.

And I think that you've seen that that generally the ideas and policies she's put out there have been well-received by the General Assembly, and I've been proud to partner with her on so many of those things.

You you mentioned fiscal responsibility and fiscal stability like preparing to build a new prison.

There's the Learns Act, which I think in this new budget she's setting aside an additional almost $200 million.

I think, for that.

Any regrets based on that and the maternal program to any regrets, any second thoughts, put it that way on tax reduction?

I don't think so.

I think we've cut taxes in a very responsible manner.

And when you look back, I mentioned at the outset that over my time in the House, we've we've reduced the top rate.

We've cut good night.

We're probably approaching about $2 billion on an annual basis in terms of of tax relief.

If you recall in my first session as a member of the General Assembly in the minority party, I was lead sponsor of Arkansas sales tax holiday that provides tax relief to our Kansans as they prepare to go back to school.

I think that what you've seen is that we've taken a very conservative approach, but it's also been a very pragmatic approach.

We haven't tried to do too much, too fast.

In fact, if you look back a few years ago, instead of utilizing triggers to trigger in tax cuts, we we kind of set up kind of a safety net type situation.

But in actuality, our revenues were so strong that we were able to move those tax cuts forward.

And so I think that that's what you'll continue to see.

I think you'll continue to see a legislature that wants to continue to work towards allowing Arkansans to have to keep more of what they earn, but at the same time to do so in a pragmatic manner.

That's not going to overextend our state.

And when you think about the tax cuts that we've that we've provided in the meantime, we've generated surpluses for the state, we've built up over, what, $1.5 billion catastrophic reserve fund, that if there is a downturn, we have something that's out there that will be able to help shore up.

Got about a minute remaining, Mr. Speaker, and I'd like to use it this way.

We are obviously in polarizing political times right now.

Your party, the Republican Party in both chambers has a super majority, so you pretty much do what you wish if you all hold together.

Is there any concern on your part that perhaps the collegiality factor in the General Assembly might suffer over owing to these passionate arguments?

Well, I think I think that there's always a concern.

We live in a time, and I think a lot of this is attributable to social media that is is elevated and maybe creates a more impassioned political debate.

I think it is something that we have to work on.

But I'm really proud of here in the state of Arkansas, and particularly, obviously the House is what is what I'm most familiar with in the House.

We've been able to conduct ourselves in a very collegial and professional manner.

Yesterday, I hosted a group from El Dorado, from the El Dorado Chamber Leadership group that was in the House chamber, and I visited with them.

And it just so happened that House Minority Leader Andrew Collins came walking through the chamber.

And, you know, I shared with my constituents from back home that in the Arkansas House, we're able to get along.

We're able to walk work across party lines.

There are several thousand bills that are filed in any given session.

Are some of them going to break down along party or ideological lines?

Yes, there are some.

And those are the ones that get a lot of attention.

But by and large, by and large, most of what we take up are things that generate broad consensus that have support across party lines.

And look, I'm a proud Republican.

I'm proud to advocate for conservative policies and conservative issues.

My message to the General Assembly, my message to the House is, let's debate.

Let's vigorously and passionately debate those issues.

Let's take the vote and then let's move on to the next issue.

Got to end it there, sir, because we're simply out of time.

Mr. Speaker, we thank you for yours.

Thank you.

This program and in previous years, we'll see you in the next session.

All right.

Thank you, Steve.

And that does it for us for this edition.

As always, thank you for watching.

See you next.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, The Arkansas Times and Little Rock Public Radio.