(cheerful music) - Hello, and welcome to "The Journal."

I'm Steve Kendall.

The news is full of stories about AI, artificial intelligence, and how it's changing our lives.

So just what is AI?

How does it work?

We're joined by Roger Minier, Executive Director at Northwest Ohio Educational Technology.

Roger, thank you for being here.

- Good morning.

- [Steve] Yeah, thanks for being here.

And start us, for those of us who know literally nothing other than we've heard the term and we're hearing all about artificial intelligence, AI, it's doing this, it's doing that, it's affecting everything we do.

Kind of give us the basic from literally line number one of what AI is, and then we can drill down deeper into how it's being used and then things that we're using it for in a positive way.

- So Steve, I think maybe the best thing I can do, I'll just start showing you some demonstrations.

There's a hundred different things or more that AI does, but let me give you an example.

So I can talk to the computer and tell it what to do now.

And that's what I'm gonna show you, is you don't have to know programming.

Somebody does.

Somebody has to get this ready.

But just anybody can talk to the computer.

So let me give you an example.

Gemini, show me a vacation to Put-in-Bay, Ohio for my family and give pictures of the major attractions I'm going to see.

- [Steve] Ah, okay.

And you tell it to go, and in just a few seconds - [Steve] Oh, look at that.

- [Roger] Perry's Victory Monument, caves, tropical pool, and that sounds good.

Can you give me the cost of those activities and about how long should I allow for each one?

And there we go.

30 minutes.

Looks like the Perry's Cave Fun Family Center's gonna be $12 for children.

And so vacation planning, anything you can think of like that.

But let me show you something else you can do and from the artistic line.

Now, it'll take me just a moment to bring this up here.

- Yeah, and Gemini Google is basically the AI app from Google.

- [Roger] Yes.

- Okay.

- So there's two major competitors out there.

There's actually over a hundred AIs on the market right now.

- [Steve] But the big ones are- - The big one, ChatGPT and Gemini.

- Okay.

- If you're just getting started out, if you wanna try some of the activities I'm showing today, Gemini.Google.com, it's free, it's easiest to use.

It's not the best, but it's the easiest.

And so that's one that I encourage people to- - [Steve] To start with.

- To start with.

- Get their feet wet.

Okay.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting because basically, as you said, this is almost like science fiction, like we used to see in movies.

"Computer, do this," and it would take care of it.

You don't even have to touch a thing.

- [AI] Picture of an eagle flying over your log house by the river.

- [Roger] And so I told it to make a picture, and it did.

- [Steve] There it is.

Now, with these images, do you own now these images?

- [Roger] I own these images.

They're mine.

It's like, "Did the AI create them?"

Well, I don't know.

I use the AI to help create it, but I told it what to do.

Let me give you some examples.

- Yeah.

Here we go.

[Steve] Because I guess if you look at this, it's pulling that information from some- - [Recording of Roger] They're more modern looking.

- [Steve] Ah, okay.

I'll try not to interrupt you now.

- [Roger] No, that's okay.

- [AI] Absolutely.

Here it is.

- [Steve] Yeah.

We get more modern cabins then.

- [Roger] So I'm not quite happy with that.

Let me give it a couple more instructions here.

- [Recording of Roger] Make it quite not that modern.

[AI] Certainly.

Here you go.

- [Steve] Wow.

(chuckles) - [Roger] And I can just keep working with it.

Let me just show you some of the customizations.

I mean, you can really get this specific.

So my wife and I, we really do own a log house and we do really do have eagles flying overhead.

We don't have quite the mountains they're showing here.

- [Steve] You do have the river though, right?

- We do have the river.

Okay, good.

So let me try and make it a little bit more like my home.

- [Recording of Roger] Make the houses modern log homes.

[AI] Absolutely.

Here you go.

[Roger] Now, I want my canoe though.

It didn't show the canoe.

Let me try a little bit more.

[Recording of Roger] Can you make them look like a log home that have been built within the last 20 years?

Of that type of design?

- [AI] Sure.

- [Steve] And you get more contemporary log homes.

- [Roger] Yeah, the one on the lower left looks almost perfect, but I don't have the canoe yet.

[Recording of Roger] Add two people in a canoe paddling in the river.

- [Steve] (laughs) Not bad.

Yeah.

- [Roger] Ah, that's not big enough.

I need to see the canoe bigger.

[Recording of Roger] Make the canoes in the image a little bit larger.

- [AI] Certainly.

Here you go.

- [Steve] It's one big eagle though.

(laughs) - [Roger] Yeah, it is a big eagle.

There we go.

That's the picture I'm looking for.

So AI can become the new artist.

You hear a lot about this in the news.

And is it gonna put artists out of work?

No, I don't think it's gonna put them out of work.

It's gonna give them a different tool than they've had before.

- You know, water colors, oil colors, AI.

What did you use to create this piece of art?

- Now, I know we're gonna go a little off script here, but if you ask it to put Roger Minier in the canoe, would it be able to create an image that looks like you and put it in there?

- So that's a really interesting question.

There's currently a controversy going on of should AI show pictures of real people?

And especially should it show pictures of people who are currently living.

Because if you can do that, you can make images that are fake.

- [Steve] Yeah.

Identity theft and fraud becomes a real issue.

- [Roger] Yeah.

And so currently, most of the artificial intelligence programs will not put in any pictures of anybody that's currently living.

However, if you hack it, you can- - If you don't wanna play by the rules, you can probably make it do about anything.

- But that's a super good question in this whole thing.

Is it AI or is it real?

Is becoming more and more difficult to see.

- Sure.

And this is a very basic example.

But obviously, as you said, you can make it almost as intricate as you want then.

- Yes.

Absolutely.

And so from these two programs, ChatGPT and AI could become just a myriad of other things.

I'm showing, you know, some obvious examples, but you can plan a family budget, you can ask it medical questions.

Caution though, these AIs do sometimes make mistakes.

Matter of fact, there's a news story that was happening recently in real life.

It got around that there are more people using marijuana every day than are drinking alcohol in the state of Ohio.

Well, the problem is, it got the numbers wrong.

It actually was saying in Ohio, there are, and it gave a number that's more than the total population of Ohio are using marijuana.

It's like, this is really interesting.

- Yeah, and that's a good point that, just like almost everything else that we see in the virtual world, you always have to take a little bit of a grain of salt and do a little more research after the fact.

- Especially if it really matters.

If you're asking questions about medical and it's really, really good.

So let me see if I can maybe bring up a couple things like that here.

All right.

And make this a little bit larger.

Can you give me some suggestions for a healthy vegan diet?

But I only am eating at fast food restaurants like McDonald's and Arby's.

- [Steve] That does a little editorializing.

Not the ideal way to go about a vegan diet, but it gives you- - [Roger] Yeah.

It gives you its opinion on things.

And it says McDonald's, look for side salads, maybe try their Fruit and Maple Oatmeal.

For Arby's, their Veggie Delight sandwich is a good choice.

And I won't show more, but I mean, you can do things about: How do I handle diabetes?

I'm considering joint replacement.

Are there any things I should be asking my doctor?

- And so just a myriad of questions that are very, very easy.

And again, you do it just by talking to the computer.

- Well, when we come back, we can show some more examples.

And also too, obviously, this has ramifications for education in a big way and journalism too.

But yeah, we'll be back in just a moment with Roger Minier here on "The Journal."

Thank you for staying with us here on "The Journal".

We're talking about artificial intelligence.

Our guest is Roger Minier, Executive Director at Northwest Ohio Educational Technology.

You know, you're showing us some examples how you can literally talk to the computer, have it create all of these things.

And as I mentioned as part of that, can you put Roger Minier in that canoe?

And you said, "Well, yes, if you're not playing by the rules."

But that's the danger is that you can create things that, to most people, would look a hundred percent accurate, would sound and look exactly like a person, and yet be a total generated representation, not an actual person.

- Yeah.

I was on a panel with 100 so-called "AI experts" a while back, and they showed us 50 pieces of work, some were written, some were art, and they asked us to identify which were AI and which were done by real humans.

Again, we were so-called experts.

We guessed right less than half the time.

It's almost impossible to tell if the person who's creating the object or image is being careful.

And in education, this is a huge issue because research is telling us about 80% of high school juniors and seniors are using AI to write their compositions that they're turning into their teacher.

- Yeah.

And the tricky part about that, the sad part is, that's a creative skill you should develop yourself, not rely on an algorithm to create a document or an article or a column or a bio or whatever it happens to be.

So that loss of human creation is important too.

- Yeah.

So let me show you how that works.

And that's what I've been doing.

You know, so NWOET, what we do, we're a nonprofit.

We go out to schools and show teachers how to use technology in their classroom and how students are using the technology.

- [Steve] So they can be aware of... And I guess we can get into the checks and balances after you show us these demonstrations too.

- [Roger] So here's a typical assignment a teacher might give.

- Okay.

- Write a 150-word essay on why spending too much time on video games is bad for junior high students.

- [Steve] Okay.

Sounds like a reasonable topic to write 150 words on.

- [Roger] All right, now we go.

Let's see what AI says.

- [Steve] So it will give us... Oh.

- [Roger] So there we go.

And let me just read the first sentence.

While video games can offer entertainment and even educational benefits, excessive playtime can be detrimental...

Wait a minute.

Does this sound like something a junior high kid would write?

But the smart junior high kids will now do this.

Rewrite this so it's at a fifth grade reading level.

- Aha.

(laughs) We're gonna lose with some language here.

- [Roger] Now it's starting to sound a little bit more like a kid really did it.

(Steve laughs) "Video games are awesome!

They can be super fun and even teach you new things.

Now, there's still one trick that teachers know to look for to see if AI did it.

This is perfect in punctuation, spelling, and grammar.

So the smarter students are now doing this.

Add two spelling errors and two punctuation errors to this essay.

- [Steve] (laughs) That way, it's not too perfect.

Isn't that interesting?

- [Roger] And it will do it.

And so I've worked with nearly a thousand teachers have anticipated in this exercise, and 80% of them can't tell AI from real.

- [Steve] When it's been manipulated like this.

- [Roger] Yes.

- [Steve] So in that case, what's your next level then of investigation or determination to say, "Okay, wait a minute."

Or can you not go any farther than that?

Say, "Well, it must be okay."

- So the reality is, most teachers, even skillful teachers, like our panel of 100 experts can't tell when it's AI if the person using AI uses some of these tricks and strategies.

Now, we had similar discussions 30 years ago when calculators came into the classroom.

And it was like, should we allow kids to use calculators?

And when should they be allowed to use them?

We had the same issue when spell-check became available in the classroom.

Should kids be allowed to use spell-check?

The reality is, the people, if you're going to school, if you're planning to go to college at Bowling Green State University, for example, you're competing with other students coming in.

You're competing for scholarships, you're competing for the elite courses.

They're probably using AI.

So Roger's opinion, you must learn to use AI as a junior and senior so you can compete successfully in the college.

And even if you disagree with that, if Bowling Green State University or some other university bans AI completely, and some universities have.

Not Bowling Green, but some have.

Well, the students there are competing against students around the world.

In China, India, Japan, Germany, those kids are being explicitly taught how to use AI.

- How to develop the demonstratable, accessible, "Yes, it looks like a creation by a human, but it really isn't."

To roll it back, this gets back to thing when plagiarism was the biggest thing we were concerned about.

Not the whole thing being created, just basically out of virtual documents.

That was dealt with by other software that would then be able to track and say, "Wait a minute, that paragraph is word for word from this book or this article."

This takes it to a way deeper level.

- So there's several programs out there, turnitin.com, AI Detector, and so forth.

About a year ago, AI has been around free to the public where you can talk to it and tell it what to do for about 18 months or so.

These detectors were almost a hundred percent accurate when AI first came out.

Now, if you talk to the executives, and I've done this at one of the companies in particular, they admit that it is only right about 5% of the time if people use these tricks we're talking about.

Let me show you real quick how teachers can use this as well.

- [Steve] Yeah.

The the positive side.

- [Roger] The positive side.

- [Steve] And I guess the use by students is not necessarily a negative, it's just how manipulated it gets.

- [Roger] And how do we change our assignments to make sure students are still doing.

Well actually, let me do one more.

- Sure.

Go ahead.

- Math.

Okay, everybody loves the train problem.

One train leaves Toledo, heading for Denver, traveling 40 miles an hour.

Another train leaves Denver heading for Toledo.

It's traveling 65 miles an hour.

Toledo and Denver are 1300 miles apart.

When will the two trains meet?

- [Steve] Some math problems never go away, do they?

(laughs) - [Roger] Some never go away.

I hated it.

I actually even like math.

I taught math when I was in the K-12 classroom as part of a advanced physics course.

Computer programming.

I taught math.

I still hate the train problem.

- [Steve] Yeah, the train problem is a go-to no matter what year it is.

- [Roger] So here it tells me when they're going to meet and it explains the answer on how they meet.

Now let me show you the teacher thing real quick, if I may.

- [Steve] Sure.

Yeah.

Go right ahead.

- So I have two students in my class.

I want them to both write a 300-word essay.

Sally is really interested in volleyball, but she needs extra help in how to organize her writing assignments.

Sam is very, very smart, but he's only reading at the fifth grade level, even though he is in ninth grade.

Make this following assignment customized for each student.

Write a 300-word fiction essay about what you would like to do when you grow up.

- [Steve] Interesting.

- [Roger] Now, I just used two students.

I can program it with all of my students.

- [Steve] With the whole class, - [Roger] The whole class.

You know, what their reading level is, what their abilities are, what areas they need to work on.

I can say, you know, "Sam is an excellent writer, but plans to go to college in creative writing.

Make an assignment customized for them."

So here we go.

Sally's customized assignments.

Make sure you say organization, be sure you have an introduction.

Tell us what the challenges are.

Tell us the big moment when you became successful.

For Sam, we want him to write shorter sentences, break down and use simpler terms.

Use vivid descriptions.

So it's the exact same assignment, but customized for what each student needs.

- [Steve] Which is actually, you know, it's not a one-size-fit-all assignment as has been the way things were done in the past.

Give me 300 words on this topic.

That's the instructions.

Where this actually now lets each of the students individualize based on their skillset and their experience and knowledge, the way to create something that really is their creation.

- [Roger] Yes, and now when the teacher grades these, they can be pretty sure that the student has used AI in order to make that work.

- Now, we need to take a break here.

We'll come back, we'll pick this up because obviously there's so much material here.

But this is interesting to see how this is actually being used and for parents to understand how their sons and daughters are using this as well.

Back in just a moment with Roger Minier here on "The Journal."

You're with us on "The Journal."

We're talking about artificial intelligence.

Our guest is Roger Minier, Executive Director from Northwest Ohio Educational Technology.

And Roger, we've been looking at examples and how this is being used in education.

We've talked about writing, we've talked about other things too, but obviously, any subject, you can use this artificial intelligence to help solve problems.

And as we know, when we talk about math, there are always those go-to problems that have been around forever and it can solve those just as easily as everything else.

- So, I was in a math classroom doing a workshop for teachers on artificial intelligence.

In a break between my sessions, I noticed on his desk where five worksheets, one for every day of the week.

- So just in my five-minute break, I grab my cell phone.

Using an app called Photomath.

- [Steve] Photomath.

- [Roger] Photomath, yeah.

If you're not sure, just ask a kid.

They probably know it.

- [Steve] Yeah.

which is an interesting point because teachers have to be able to keep ahead of the students, which is, and especially when it comes to technology, always a challenge.

- [Roger] So you take a picture of the equation, it gives you the answer is five.

But the teacher says, "Show me the steps."

Okay, it'll show me each of the different steps of the process.

So he had these worksheets.

In the five-minute break, I had answered every question for Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesdays.

It would've taken me a few extra minutes to actually write the answers down.

- [Steve] But that's how quickly you could turn those around.

- [Roger] Yes.

- Now I got to Thursday's worksheet, Photomath said it involved graphs and charts and it said, "I'm sorry, I can't do that unless you upgrade to the paid version."

(Steve laughs) So many of these apps will have that little trick, that trial that gets you in.

- [Steve] Then pull you in.

If you really want the full package, then it costs more money then.

- [Roger] Yes.

- [Steve] Wow.

Interesting.

But it would solve, it would be able to do that as well.

- [Roger] Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- [Steve] Wow.

- And so how do we give math classes?

How do we teach kids math knowing that these tools are here?

And it's a new tool.

It's here.

We can't keep it from them.

If we prevent them from using it in school, it's going home.

So what I actually do, I recommend that the schools have sessions for parents and they show parents how to use Photomath to help their student with the problem.

Monitor your student, have them answer the question without using any technology help, but right there, you can get the answer step by step so you can better help your kid.

That's not a perfect answer, but it's a step towards learning.

How do we deal with artificial intelligence and children's learning?

- Yeah, and I guess the good news about that is you can use it as a tool to assist them to learn how to do math versus, "Well, I just don't get this."

Because you know, students sometimes, they check out on math and go, "I'm never gonna get this.

I'm not even gonna try this."

At least gives you another way to try and approach it.

Another angle, another tool to help them understand how it works and then maybe they become more adept at it as opposed to just ignoring it and going, "I don't care, I'm never gonna use this anyway."

- Yeah.

Now totally different topic.

Companionship.

Elderly population.

Home alone.

I'm lonely.

- [Steve] Ah.

We have an AI for that.

- We have an app for that.

We're switching over from Gemini and Photomath.

Now we're gonna use ChatGPT.

- [Steve] All right.

Okay.

- And it doesn't do much, but hopefully we put- - [AI] How can I help you today?

I'm feeling lonely.

Could we play a game?

- [AI] Of course.

What kind of game would you like to play?

We could do a word game, a riddle, or even a trivia quiz.

What sounds fun to you?

- Oh, how about a word game like Name That Tune?

- [AI] That sounds fun.

I'll give you some lyrics from a song and you try to guess the name of the song.

Ready?

Here's the first one.

"Just a small town girl living in a lonely world."

Can you name that tune?

- Oh my gosh, I'm not very good at music.

Can we do science fiction movies instead?

- [AI] Sure thing.

I'll describe a science fiction movie and you try to guess which one it is.

Ready?

Here's the first one.

This movie features a young farm boy who becomes a hero with the help of an old wizard, a smuggler, and a princess.

They fight against a dark empire and its powerful weapon that can destroy planets.

Can you name that movie?

- And it will just go on and play me and keep me company.

It does other things too.

I'm going to my niece's birthday party.

Can you write a song for her?

She's four years old and she loves butterflies.

- [AI] Sure.

I'd be happy to.

Here's a simple song... - And the opportunities just keep going.

- Isn't that amazing?

So it will actually then create an original composition, in essence.

Now, would you then claim... Now, that wouldn't be something you could take credit for.

Would you own that or not then?

- Well, I don't know.

I told it it involves butterflies.

I said write it for a 4-year-old.

So the AI gave me some suggestions.

- [Steve] But if you sat down to do it yourself, that's the same process you'd go through except without being able to draw from.... Yeah.

Interesting.

- So I think our trick is to customize things.

Don't just take what the AI gives you.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- Keep your creativity.

And for students, for K-12 education especially, that we continue to push them to higher levels of writing than they've ever done before.

And individualized instruction.

The opportunities are incredible as well as for companionship, monitoring for illness.

You can have the AI check in on you every hour, and if you don't answer, it will call somebody.

- So I guess the thing is, the takeaway too is not to be afraid of this technology because it has a large number of positive elements.

Don't be scared off by the potential negatives that some people will pull into it.

Now, if somebody wants to know more, because we've got just a moment here, what's the easiest way to find out more?

Get emerged, to get their foot in the water on this a little bit.

- So the first thing, try it.

Go to Gemini.Google.com and try some of the things.

By the way, the generating pictures is kind of glitchy, but asking it questions like I've been doing.

If you wanna do it on your cell phone, go to the ChatGPT.

ChatGPT seems to be the best tool right now for beginners on the cell phone, Gemini, on the computer laptop.

And especially if you're involved with K12 education, nwoet@nwoet.org.

We'll be glad to give you some free advice and additional suggestions and reference sheets on where to get more information on this.

- [Steve] Great, Roger.

Thank you so much.

You've really given us some basic insight and kind of, hopefully, set people at ease about the use of this.

So thank you again.

- [Roger] It's exciting.

- Yes, it is.

It is.

And it's illuminating signing is like, "Hey, look, it is a positive.

It's not a negative.

Don't be scared by it."

So that's a good thing.

You can check us out at wbgu.org.

You can watch us every Thursday night at 8:00 PM here on WBGU-PBS.

We will see you again next time.

Goodnight and good luck.

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