HELEN: IN WESTERN CIVILIZATION, WE HAVE THIS IDEA OF AN ARTIST.

IT'S ABOUT A 600-YEAR-OLD IDEA.

THIS PERSON IS ALMOST ALWAYS CONSIDERED A WHITE MAN, AND HE IS A GENIUS, AND HE WILL DO ANYTHING FOR HIS ART.

A MOTHER, ON THE OTHER HAND, ALSO GIVES UP EVERYTHING, BUT SHE DOES SO IN THE GUISE OF SELFLESSNESS.

THE CHILD IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE CENTER OF HER UNIVERSE.

WHEN YOU PUT THESE TWO TERMS TOGETHER, MOTHER AND ARTIST, THEN YOU'VE GOT A PROBLEM, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GIVE UP EVERYTHING FOR TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

JORI: THE TOPIC OF MOTHERHOOD DOES NOT MAKE IT INTO SERIOUS ART JOURNALISM.

IT DOESN'T MAKE IT INTO SERIOUS ART CRITICISM OR ART HISTORY.

IT DOESN'T MAKE IT INTO THE ART HISTORY TEXT BOOKS.

NAIMA: I THINK IT WAS INTERESTING ABOUT ARTISTS WHO EITHER MAKE WORK ABOUT MOTHERHOOD OR INCORPORATE ASPECTS OF BEING A MOM IN THEIR WORK.

I WONDER IF THERE'S A HESITANCY TO EXPLORE THAT FULLY, PUBLICLY.

THERE'S THIS FEAR THAT IT WON'T BE LOOKED AT BEYOND THE SCOPE OF MOTHERHOOD, THAT IT ONLY BE READ THROUGH THAT ONE LENS, AND THAT THERE WON'T BE THE POSSIBILITY OF KIND OF OPENING UP THE CONVERSATION.

NICOL: I HAVE NUMEROUS FRIENDS IN THE ART WORLD WHO HAVE HORROR STORIES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY BECAME PARENTS, THAT THEIR EXHIBITIONS WERE POSTPONED OR CANCELED.

THE GALLERIST HAD INVESTED IN AN ARTIST.

THEY BECAME AFRAID THAT ONCE THEY BECAME A PARENT THAT THAT ARTIST'S WORK WOULD CHANGE.

THERE ARE MANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS FOR ME IS THE ASSUMPTION THAT THAT CHANGE WOULD BE A NEGATIVE ONE.

JORI: I THINK IT'S REALLY BRAVE WHEN ARTISTS PUT MOTHERHOOD DIRECTLY IN THEIR WORK, AND I THINK WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF THAT IN LOS ANGELES.

ARTISTS LIKE ANDREA CHUNG, TANYA AGUINIGA, REBECCA CAMPBELL, KENYATTA HINKLE.

HELEN: SO THE QUESTION FOR ME THEN BECOMES, WHAT DOES MOTHERHOOD DO TO CHANGE THE IDEA WE HAVE OF WHAT AN ARTIST IS?

WHAT DOES BEING AN ARTIST DO TO CHANGE THE IDEA OF WHAT A MOTHER IS?

REBECCA: YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE DISHONEST IF I DIDN'T SAY THERE'S A PART OF ME THAT'S HESITANT ABOUT BEING ON A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT WOMEN ARTISTS WHO ARE MOTHERS BECAUSE I WOULD LIKE YOU TO BE HERE BECAUSE I'M AN ARTIST.

WE'RE SO CONDITIONED TO SEE EVERYTHING THROUGH THE PATRIARCHY.

WE THINK THAT THAT'S THE NEUTRAL POSITION.

WE THINK THAT THE NEUTRAL POSITION IS THE MALE POSITION, AND IT IS NOT.

MOTHERHOOD IS BOTH AS SPECTACULARLY BEAUTIFUL AS BERNINI'S "VIRGIN MARY," BUT IT IS ALSO JUST ABHORRENT, AND IT'S PAUL McCARTHY WITH BERNINI, THAT'S MOTHERHOOD, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

IT'S TERRIBLE, AND IT'S AMAZING, AND THE VOICE HAS NOT BEEN THERE.

SO YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A PHOTOGRAPHER, I'M A PAINTER, SO PUT ABSOLUTELY NO VALUE IN WHAT HAPPENS HERE.

IT ALL HAPPENS ON THE CANVAS.

WILL YOU STAND RIGHT HERE?

IT'S A PROCESS OF THEM LETTING GO OF WHAT THEY WANT TO SHOW YOU FOR THE FIRST HALF AN HOUR, AND THEN THEM RELAXING TO WHO THEY REALLY ARE.

WOMEN, IT'S SO COMPLICATED.

OUR PICTURE, AGREEING TO HAVE SOMEONE PAINT YOU BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH PUT ON TOP OF US IN THE WORLD, AND WE WANT TO BE BEAUTIFUL, WE WANT TO BE POWERFUL, WE WANT TO BE SMART, WE WANT TO BE LOVING, AND IN TRUSTING SOMEONE ELSE TO PAINT YOUR PICTURE, IT'S A TRUST.

THERE SHE IS.

YOU CAN SEE THAT, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE SO SIMILAR, THERE'S SUCH A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THE KIND OF SENTIMENT OF EACH GESTURE.

I DECIDED I WAS GOING TO PAINT EVERY SINGLE FEMALE ARTIST I KNOW, STARTING IN LOS ANGELES.

I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE DISAPPEARING, THESE PEOPLE, IN HISTORY, IN THE COLLECTIONS, SO I CAN MAKE THEM LITERALLY APPEAR.

AS THEY ACCUMULATED, THEY WOULD BE MORE AND MORE UNDENIABLE IN THEIR NUMBER AND THEIR STRENGTH.

YOU HAVE VERY SIGNIFICANT SUCCESSFUL ARTISTS AND CRITICS WHO ARE ON RECORD, SAYING THEY PERSONALLY FEEL THAT IF YOU ARE AN ARTIST AND A MOTHER YOU ARE EITHER A BAD ARTIST OR YOU ARE A BAD MOTHER.

THESE ARE PEOPLE I KNOW...WHO HAVE BEEN IN MY STUDIO.

HA HA!

AND THAT'S A HARD THING TO TAKE.

MY WORK IS AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL, SO BY NATURE, MOTHERHOOD ISN'T MY WORK.

I'M A MOTHER.

INTERESTINGLY, WHEN I PUT IT IN MY WORK, IT WAS TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN THE OTHER AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL FACTORS.

I HAD SOMEONE COME FROM THE EAST COAST TO LOOK AT A SERIES OF WORK I DID SHORTLY AFTER I HAD MY SECOND CHILD.

I DID THIS SERIES OF MOTHERS, AND ONE PAINTING IN PARTICULAR, IT'S CALLED "JUST ANOTHER DIAMOND DAY."

IT'S A FRIEND OF MINE WHO LIVES DOWN THE STREET WHO HAD HAD A BABY JUST WITHIN MONTHS OF MINE.

THIS SERIES WAS IN THE STUDIO AT THE TIME THIS PERSON VISITED, AND THEY WERE HORRIFIED.

THEY COULD NOT RELATE.

THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.

THEY THOUGHT THE PAINTINGS WERE GROSS.

HA HA!

THE STRANGEST EXPERIENCE.

"MARY HAD A LITTLE LAMB," THE COMPOSITION CAME OUT OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PAINTING ITSELF.

I WAS TRYING MULTIPLE COMPOSITIONS, AND THEN I REALIZED I HADN'T PHOTOSHOPPED OUT AN ARM FROM ANOTHER TRIAL I HAD MADE, AND [SNAPS FINGERS] ALL OF A SUDDEN, THAT WAS THE PAINTING.

THE PAINTING WAS ABOUT GROWING A THIRD ARM, GROWING ANOTHER APPENDAGE.

YOU GROW MORE LOVE.

YOU SIMPLY HAVE ENOUGH.

IT'S ALREADY COMPLICATED TO BE AN ARTIST AND BE A WOMAN.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE A MOTHER, THEY GET COMPOUNDED, AND I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE EXPECTATIONS IS THAT YOU WILL BE GOOD.

HA.

AND YOU WILL BE MOTHERLY.

SOME OF THE OTHER WORK THAT I'VE DONE, INCLUDING THIS SERIES, I THINK IS SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE TAKEN VERY DIFFERENTLY IF I WERE A 29-YEAR-OLD DUDE.

THIS PARTICULAR PAINTING COMES FROM THE PLAYBOY CENTERFOLD FROM THE MONTH OF MY BIRTH, SO I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE WORLD I WAS BORN INTO.

MY ALTERATIONS TO THAT IMAGE, I HOPE ARE BOTH FULL OF RAGE AND FULL OF TENDERNESS.

OF COURSE THIS MULTIPLICITOUS, COMPLICATED, FRACTURED, RICH, FERTILE PLACE IS FEMINIST.

WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO BRUSH UP ON?

CHILD: UM... REBECCA: I COME FROM SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH.

I'M THE YOUNGEST OF 7 CHILDREN, AND IN THAT PLACE, I AM THE SORT OF TROUBLE-MAKING, BRA BURNING, PINKO COMMUNIST PUNK ROCKER.

HERE IN LOS ANGELES, IRONICALLY I'M LIKE THE MOTHER FIGURE, REALIST PAINTER, YOU KNOW?

WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT.

AND THOSE ARE BOTH TRUE.

GIRL: THIS PAGE I'M WORKING ON, AND I DIDN'T FINISH IT.

MAN: THAT'S GREAT.

REBECCA: LET'S CHECK.

YOU HAVE TO BE DONE WITH THIS ONE FIRST.

THAT'S A BOY.

I LOVE THAT.

I LOVE THAT.

HA HA!

GIRL: OH, AND THE CAR, IT HAS A FLAT WHEEL.

REBECCA: SO I WANTED TO HAVE 3, SO I GOT PREGNANT, AND IT WAS TWINS.

ANDY AND JOSEPHINE WERE BORN BOTH WITH PERSISTENT PULMONARY HYPERTENSION OF THE NEWBORN.

I HAD JUST LOST JOSEPHINE, AND I IMMEDIATELY HAD TO GO SEE ANDY, AND I DIDN'T WANT TO GO.

I DIDN'T WANT TO BE A MOTHER.

AT THAT MOMENT, I JUST THOUGHT--I CAN'T SAY THIS.

I JUST THOUGHT, FUCK THIS.

I DO NOT WANT TO BE A MOTHER.

THIS IS TOO HARD.

THIS IS TOO HARD.

HA.

AND YOU DON'T GET THAT CHOICE.

ONCE YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE IN.

AND SO WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF, I HAD NOT HAD HER WITH ME, SO I HADN'T MADE THAT BOND.

SHE WAS TAKEN.

AND I THOUGHT...IF I SEE HER, I'M GOING TO LOVE HER, AND I DON'T WANT THAT LOVE.

I DON'T WANT THE BURDEN OF LOVING ANOTHER PERSON WHO I MIGHT LOSE.

I HAD BEEN GIVEN MANY FLOWERS OVER THE COURSE OF MONTHS, AND I LOVE FLOWERS, BUT ALSO THE CRAZY SPECTRUM OF LIFE IS CONTAINED IN THAT FLOWER: FRAGILITY, FRESHNESS, COLOR, ETHEREALITY.

AND THEN THEY DIE.

HA.

YOU WATCH THEM DIE OFTEN, AND I FOUND THAT PROFOUND.

WHAT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO WAS MAKE THIS SPACE BETWEEN ALL OF THE FLOWERS THE MOST PREDOMINANT AND IMPORTANT PART OF THE PAINTING, WHICH VERY PERFECTLY EXPRESSED THE EXPERIENCE I WAS HAVING IN MY LIFE WITH HAVING THE THING THAT WAS NOT THERE BE THE ALL-ENCOMPASSING FACTOR.

ONE OF THE GREATEST LUXURIES MEN HAVE HAD IN TERMS OF THE HISTORY OF ART IS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BE BROKEN IN PUBLIC.

I THINK I COULD BE MUCH MORE SUBTLE AND STRATEGIC ABOUT THE WAY I WEAR MY MOTHERHOOD, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT DOESN'T REALLY HELP THOSE AROUND YOU.

AND IF I CAN HELP SOMEBODY ELSE WHO I DON'T EVEN KNOW BY JUST BEING A MOTHER OUT LOUD, THEN THAT'S MY PRIVILEGE.

JORI: I SOMETIMES JOKE THAT MOTHERHOOD IS THE LAST TABOO IN CONTEMPORARY ART.

SEX IS NOT OFF LIMITS.

POLITICS IS NOT OFF LIMITS.

SOMETIMES IT SEEMS THERE'S NOTHING OFF LIMITS TO CONTEMPORARY ART EXCEPT MAYBE MOTHERHOOD.

NICOL: AT THE TOP COMMERCIAL GALLERIES IN THE ART WORLD, THERE SEEM TO BE CONSISTENTLY TWICE AS MANY MALE ARTISTS REPRESENTED AS THERE ARE FEMALE ARTISTS, AND IT'S NOT JUST EXHIBITIONS WHERE THERE ARE REPRESENTATIONAL DISCREPANCIES.

IT'S CATALOGS, IT'S PUBLICATIONS, IT'S ART REVIEWS, IT'S SOLO SHOWS.

JORI: THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SHOW ABOUT MOTHERHOOD IN CONTEMPORARY ART IN LOS ANGELES AT ANY OF THE MAJOR MUSEUMS.

THERE HASN'T BEEN ONE AT THE MUSEUM OF MODERN ART IN NEW YORK.

THERE HADN'T BEEN ONE AT THE TATE.

IT'S REALLY IRONIC THAT SO FEW PEOPLE HAVE EXPLORED THIS THEME OF MOTHERHOOD IN ART WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF ART.

ALESSANDRA: THERE'S A FAMOUS IMAGE IN AZTEC SCULPTURE OF THE GODDESS TLAZOL TEOTL, AND SHE'S REPRESENTED GIVING BIRTH.

THE BABY'S ACTUALLY COMING OUT OF HER, BETWEEN HER LEGS, BUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE'S FLYING OUT.

HER FACE HAS THIS EXPRESSION OF BOTH PAIN AND JOY AND EMOTION AND SACRIFICE.

IT'S A REALLY POWERFUL IMAGE, AND I THINK THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THAT THAT I CAN THINK OF IN KIND OF WESTERN REPRESENTATIONS.

IN WESTERN REPRESENTATION WE HAVE...WHAT IMAGE DO WE ASSOCIATE WITH MOTHER AND CHILD?

IT'S USUALLY THE MADONNA.

JORI: THAT HAS GOT TO BE SOME OF THE MOST CENTRAL IMAGERY IN ALL OF ART HISTORY, BY LEONARDO, MICHELANGELO , RAPHAEL.

YOU SEE THESE MADONNA AND CHILD PAINTINGS, YOU GET THIS ALMOST YUMMY BABY, ESPECIALLY IN RAPHAEL'S PAINTINGS.

NAIMA: WHAT ALWAYS MAKES ME CHUCKLE IS THAT IT'S A LITTLE MORE UNREALISTIC THEN MAYBE MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

HA HA!

SO AGAIN, NOW THAT I'M A MOM, I THINK TO MYSELF, LIKE THIS MUST HAVE BEEN PAINTED BY A MAN BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY THAT A WOMAN COULD HAVE HONESTLY PAINTED A PAINTING WHERE THEY HAVE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THAT SHE'S HOLDING ONE BABY AND THEN THE ONE KID IS HERE AND JUST KIND OF LIKE PATIENTLY WAITING FOR THE MOM TO ANSWER HER.

I MEAN, IT'S ALWAYS A VERY KIND OF SERENE MOMENT THAT VERY RARELY IF EVER HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE.

JORI: BY THE TIME WE GET INTO THE 19th CENTURY WITH THE PAINTERS LIKE MARY CASSATT.

THE KIDS IN HER PICTURE LOOK LIKE THEY JUST CAME IN FROM THE COLD.

THEY HAVE THE RED CHEEKS.

THEY ARE INDIVIDUALS.

AND OF COURSE ONE REASON WHY WE SEE THIS REALISM IN THE HANDS OF MARY CASSATT IS BECAUSE SHE WAS A WOMAN PAYING ATTENTION TO WOMEN'S THINGS, NAMELY CHILDREN.

HELEN: ALICE NEEL GAVE US THESE EXTRAORDINARY IMAGES OF NUDE, PREGNANT WOMEN THAT WERE JUST SO HONEST.

THAT BLUE VEIN THAT WOULD APPEAR ON THE BODY OF THE PREGNANT WOMAN, AND YOU WOULD REALLY FEEL THIS SENSE OF A KIND OF ELECTRIC LIFE FORCE, AND YOU'RE JUST CONFRONTED WITH THE AWESOMENESS OF THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE THINGS HUMAN BEING'S BODIES DO IS MAKE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

JORI: WHAT'S REALLY EXCITING ABOUT ENTERING THE 20th CENTURY FINALLY IN OUR HISTORY IS THAT YOU FINALLY GET TO SEE ARTISTS WHO ARE MOTHERS THEMSELVES.

BEFORE THEN, THE HISTORY OF ART IS A HISTORY MADE BY MEN, AND THAT INCLUDES REPRESENTATIONS OF MOTHERS.

ANDREA: I LIKE TO USE EPHEMERAL MATERIALS, THINGS THAT WON'T LAST, THINGS THAT HAVE THEIR OWN HISTORY AND THEIR OWN MEMORY AND DEAL WITH THE RELATIONSHIP THAT THE VIEWER HAS TO THAT MATERIAL.

EVERYBODY'S EXPERIENCE WILL BE DIFFERENT.

I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE AN ARTIST SINCE I WAS A KID.

SOME OF MY EARLIEST MEMORIES WERE LIKE AROUND 4 OF JUST DRAWING STICK FIGURES AND HOUSES, AND IT'S SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO AND CAN'T SEE MYSELF DOING ANYTHING ELSE NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO.

I'M NOT EQUIPPED TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN BE AN ARTIST.

I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN THE EFFECTS OF COLONIALISM IN FORMER ISLAND NATIONS, SPECIFICALLY JAMAICA AND TRINIDAD AND ALSO MAURITIUS.

THEY WERE ALL SUGAR COLONIES.

A LOT OF MY WORK WILL USE MATERIALS THAT ARE IMBUED WITH SPECIFIC HISTORIES TO THOSE LOCATIONS, SO SUGAR, FOR EXAMPLE.

I'LL MAKE SCULPTURES OUT OF SUGARS OR PAINTINGS.

YOU HAVE A MATERIAL THAT IS REALLY MUNDANE, THAT WE CONSUME ON A REGULAR BASIS AND DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT ANYMORE, AND IT'S INCREDIBLY CHEAP, BUT THEN IT WAS INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE.

ALL OF MY WORK STARTED WITH ME LOOKING AT MY GRANDMOTHER... TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW MY GRANDPARENTS FOUND THEIR WAY TO BE IN JAMAICA AT THIS SPECIFIC TIME, LIKE, WHY ISN'T MY GRANDFATHER--WHA T MADE HIM LEAVE CHINA IN ORDER TO COME HERE, AND WHAT WAS THAT RELATIONSHIP LIKE?

HOW WAS IT MANAGING 9 CHILDREN ALONE?

BECAUSE MY GRANDFATHER DIDN'T SUPPORT HIS CHILDREN.

THE CROWNING SERIES WAS USING IMAGES OF STEREOTYPES OF JAMAICAN WOMEN.

THEY'RE OFTEN DEPICTED AS WASHER WOMEN OR MARKET WOMEN, SO I WANTED TO ELEVATE THEM AND GIVE SOME AGENCY.

THE CROWNS ARE OF UTERUSES HONORING THESE WOMEN WHO DID THIS LABOR AND ALSO PLAYING WITH THE IDEA OF THE BABY CROWNING.

MODERN-DAY OBSTETRICS IS PRIMARILY BASED ON WHITE DOCTORS STUDYING WITH BLACK MIDWIVES AND EVENTUALLY BANNING THEM FROM PRACTICING, AND MY GRANDMOTHER WAS A MIDWIFE IN TRINIDAD, SO WE WENT TO JAMAICA, AND WE INTERVIEWED A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAD EITHER BEEN BIRTHED BY MIDWIVES, WERE MIDWIVES, OR KNEW SOMEONE WHO WAS A MIDWIFE.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE NOTICED WAS THAT PEOPLE WOULD REFER TO THEM AS DIRTY.

SO I DECIDED TO MAKE HANDS OUT OF SOAP SO THAT THE VIEWER HAS TO WASH THEIR HANDS WITH THE HANDS OF THE MIDWIVES.

THEY'RE NOT DIRTY.

THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY FEEL IS BEING CALLED BY GOD TO DO THIS WORK, AND THEY'RE JUST SERVICE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE JUST BEEN IGNORED, AND I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD PERCEIVE THAT AS BEING THIS NEGATIVE THING.

THEY'RE LOVING HANDS, SO I WANT YOU TO EXPERIENCE THAT.

I FEEL LIKE IT'S IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO FEEL CONNECTED AND ESPECIALLY AFTER HAVING A CHILD.

I DON'T THINK MY LIFE WOULD BE THE SAME HAD I NOT GONE TO GRAD SCHOOL.

MY DIRECTOR AT MICA, HER NAME IS FRANCES BARTH.

SHE WAS VERY HARD CORE.

SHE DID NOT MINCE HER WORDS.

SHE DIDN'T SUFFER FOOLS, AND SHE TOLD YOU LIKE IT WAS.

SHE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT YOUR EGO.

SHE WOULD JUST KIND OF CUT YOU DOWN, LET YOU CRY, AND MAKE YOU FIGURE IT OUT ON YOUR OWN, AND SHE PREPARED ME FOR THE ART WORLD.

SHE KNEW THAT IT WOULD BE HARDER FOR ME AS A WOMAN AND ESPECIALLY AS A BLACK WOMAN.

I HAD A SOLO SHOW AT THE MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART, SAN DIEGO.

I HAD BEEN RESEARCHING LION FISH FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

I WANTED TO USE THE FISH AS A WAY TO TALK ABOUT COLONIALISM.

THEY'RE AN INVASIVE SPECIES.

THEY'RE DESTROYING PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING IN THE CARIBBEAN, IN THE ATLANTIC, AND THEY'RE NOW IN THE MEDITERRANEAN.

THEY HAVE NO NATIVE PREDATOR.

THEY'RE INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL.

IT'S A REALLY SEDUCTIVE-LOOKING FISH, BUT THEY'RE INCREDIBLY POISONOUS AND CAN KILL YOU.

HA HA!

SO IT SEEMED LIKE AN ADEQUATE WAY TO TALK ABOUT THE SEDUCTION AND BEAUTY OF COLONIALISM BUT AT THE SAME TIME HOW INCREDIBLY DEADLY IT IS.

CHILD: BUT WE NEED SOME WATER.

ANDREA: WE HAVE WATER.

WE HAVE WATER.

CHILD: DON'T WE NEED?

ANDREA: NO, WE DON'T NEED WATER.

JUST ANY WATER WORKS.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PHOTOGRAPHY IN RELATION TO THE CARIBBEAN, AND CYANOTYPES ARE ONE OF THE EARLIEST METHODS OF PHOTOGRAPHY.

CYANOTYPE IS REALLY EASY, KID-SAFE MATERIAL.

I TEND TO NOT WORK WITH TOXIC MATERIALS JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THAT SOMETIMES I HAVE TO WORK AT HOME, SO I JUST CREATED A LITTLE DARK ROOM OUT OF A HALF BATHROOM.

EVERYONE THINKS I HAVE THIS FANCY PHOTO LAB, BUT IT'S LITERALLY JUST ON MY PORCH, AND THEN I HAVE A PLASTIC KIDDIE POOL THAT I TAKE THE PRINTS AND DEVELOP THEM AND PROCESS THEM IN THE KIDDIE POOL AND THEN LEAVE THEM ON MY PORCH TO DRY.

HE'S MESSED UP A FEW NEGATIVES, BUT IT ENDS UP WORKING ITS WAY INTO THE PIECE, LIKE HE SPILLED JUICE ALL OVER MY DESK ONCE, BUT IT LEFT LIKE WATER MARKS, AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, IT'S UNDERWATER, SO IT JUST KIND OF WORKS.

SO I JUST KIND OF GO WITH IT.

AND THEN SOMETIMES I'LL TRY TO HAVE HIM LEAVE HIS TOYS ON ONE OF THE PRINTS AND HIDE IT IN THE LARGER INSTALLATION SO THAT HE CAN GO AND TRY TO FIND IT, SO YOU'LL SEE LIKE A LITTLE TRANSFORMER HIDING SOMEWHERE IN THE WORK.

HA!

OK, DON'T RUN, ALL RIGHT?

WHEN I GOT PREGNANT, I DID NOT KNOW ANYONE THAT HAD KIDS.

I HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO EXPECT, AND IT WAS KIND OF A CHALLENGING DELIVERY, AND I HAD POST-PARTUM DEPRESSION, SO THAT WAS DEFINITELY A STRUGGLE IN JUST HAVING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR ROLE IS, LIKE YOU WERE JUST ADDING BEING A MOTHER TO THE ROLE THAT YOU ALREADY CARRY AND TRYING TO SORT OF FIGURE OUT HOW THAT WORKS.

PART OF WHAT I DID TO HELP ME GET PAST IT, I WOULD PHOTOGRAPH HIM EVERY DAY AS A WAY TO SORT OF MAKE MYSELF REALIZE THAT I WAS A PARENT.

KIND OF SURREAL TO THINK ABOUT MAKING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AND WATCHING THEM DEVELOP INTO A CHARACTER.

I'VE MET SOME OLDER WHITE FEMALE ARTISTS THAT HAVE REGRETTED NOT HAVING CHILDREN.

I CAN SYMPATHIZE WITH THEM, BUT I FEEL LIKE I ALREADY HAVE SO MANY DISADVANTAGES AGAINST ME THAT HAVING A CHILD ISN'T GOING TO REALLY MAKE OR BREAK ANYTHING.

HA HA!

I NEVER INTENDED ON MAKING WORK ABOUT MOTHERHOOD.

IT'S JUST BEEN PART OF THE NATURAL FLOW OF MY PRACTICE.

I ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE HAVING A CHILD HAS MADE MY PRACTICE STRONGER.

HELEN: THE RISE OF THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT IN THE LATE '60s AND EARLY 1970s DEFINITELY GAVE RISE TO A GROUP OF WOMEN WHO WERE ARTISTS WHO TOOK ON THE MANTLE OF FEMINISM, AND I THINK THE EASIEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND IT IS THEY REALLY TOOK ON THAT FEMINIST SLOGAN "THE PERSONAL IS POLITICAL."

SO ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ARTISTS OF THIS PERIOD AND OF THIS KIND OF WORK IS MARY KELLY.

MARY MADE A KIND OF EPIC MONUMENTAL WORK CALLED "THE POST-PARTUM DOCUMENT."

AND BY POST-PARTUM, SHE MEANT THE WORK MADE AFTER THE BIRTH OF HER CHILD, AND DOCUMENT WAS REALLY THE WAY SHE MADE THE WORK.

SHE TOOK HER CHILD'S EARLY SOILED DIAPERS AND AFFIXED THEM INTO THE WORK OF ART.

SHE WAS LIKE A SCIENTIST REPORTING ON HER OWN EXPERIENCE.

JORI: SO ON THE ONE HAND, YOU HAVE MARY KELLY DOING THIS VERY RIGOROUS KIND OF CONCEPTUAL ART FOR "POST-PARTUM DOCUMENT."

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE AN ARTIST LIKE SENGA NENGUDI WHO IS CREATING PERFORMANCES.

NAIMA: SHE WAS ABLE TO TAKE A VERY COMMON OBJECT SUCH AS PANTY HOSE AND REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT IN RELATION TO THE HUMAN BODY.

SHE'S, OVER THE YEARS, MADE A NUMBER OF SCULPTURES THAT INCORPORATE PANTY HOSE AS A WAY TO KIND OF TALK ABOUT THE ELASTICITY OF THE BODY AND PARTICULARLY THE WOMAN'S BODY AND HOW IT'S CONSTANTLY BOTH LITERALLY BEING STRETCHED, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'RE A MOM, BUT THEN ALSO JUST KIND OF THE STRETCH AND THE PULL AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAPPENS JUST IN LIFE.

OBVIOUSLY I AM 7 MONTHS PREGNANT.

HA HA!

SPEAKING ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT HAPPEN IN A WOMAN'S BODY OVER A PERIOD OF 10 MONTHS IS QUITE GENIUS.

HELEN: ANNA MARIA MAIOLINO IS AN ARTIST WHOSE WORK HAS BEEN CONCERNED WITH LANGUAGE AND FOOD, WHICH IS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING HER WORK IS CONCERNED WITH CULTURE.

THERE'S THIS WONDERFUL PHOTOGRAPH CALLED "POR UM FIO," WHICH MEANS "BY A THREAD."

MAIOLINO IS IN THE CENTER OF THE PICTURE, AND SHE HAS A PIECE OF STRING COMING OUT OF HER MOUTH, AND ON ONE SIDE IT ATTACHES TO HER MOTHER, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE IT ATTACHES TO HER DAUGHTER.

AND I FOUND THIS IMAGE VERY ARRESTING.

IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE MY OWN EXPERIENCE AT ALL.

MY MOTHER'S MOTHER DIED WHEN SHE WAS VERY YOUNG, AND I DON'T HAVE CHILDREN.

SO THERE'S NO WAY FOR ME TO BE IN THAT PICTURE EVEN THOUGH THAT PICTURE DESCRIBES SOMETHING UNIVERSAL.

JORI: THERE'S A REAL SPECTRUM WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE ARTIST MOTHER.

THERE ARE ARTISTS WHO DON'T REALLY MAKE MOTHERHOOD A PART OF THEIR ART AT ALL ON ONE END OF THE SPECTRUM.

AT THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM, YOU HAVE ARTISTS WHO REALLY USE MOTHERHOOD FOR ITS MATERIALS AND ITS THEMES.

ALESSANDRA: THERE IS DEFINITELY A HIERARCHY IN THE ART WORLD WITH A CAPITAL "A" WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE FINE ARTS ARE USUALLY MADE WITH MATERIALS THAT TEND TO BE EXPENSIVE AND ARE PART OF THE HISTORY OF WESTERN ART.

HELEN: I THINK THAT THE USING OF NON-TRADITIONAL MATERIALS, LIKE DIAPERS OR LINT, FOOD STUFFS, UNFIRED CLAY, THOSE MATERIALS HAVE MEANINGS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THOSE MEANINGS ARE IN PLAY.

TANYA: WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHEN I STARTED THINKING OF MYSELF AS AN ARTIST.

PROBABLY HONESTLY LIKE AFTER HAVING A CHILD.

I STARTED MAKING A LOT MORE CONCEPTUAL WORK, AND I THINK AT THAT POINT WHEN I BROKE AWAY FROM MAKING FUNCTIONAL WORK WAS WHEN I STARTED TO REFER TO MYSELF MORE AS AN ARTIST THAN A CRAFTS PERSON.

AFTER HAVING A KID, MY CAREER WAS COMPLETELY, LIKE, REENERGIZED, AND A LOT OF THAT WAS BECAUSE I BECAME HYPERFOCUSED.

I, LIKE, HAD TO STEP UP.

IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN ME MUCH LONGER TO GET TO THAT PLACE HAD I NOT HAD A KID.

I JUST FEEL KIND OF INCREDIBLE MOMENTUM.

I AM REALLY INTERESTED IN EXPLORING MATERIALS AND HOW WE CAN USE WORKING-CLASS MATERIALS AND THE CONTEXT BEHIND MATERIALS TO PUSH DIALOGUE FORWARD IN TERMS OF EQUITY, IN TERMS OF CLASS, IN TERMS OF THE TYPE OF WORK THAT WOMEN MAKE.

OH, THIS IS LOOKING SO BEAUTIFUL.

LIKE SOMETHING LIKE THIS LIKE COULD COME BEHIND AND LIKE...YOU KNOW?

LIKE BE LIKE ANOTHER...YEAH.

YEAH, I THINK LET'S JUST KEEP GOING WITH THIS, LIKE...LIKE IN-AND-OUT BUSINESS 'CAUSE IT'S PRETTY RAD.

I THINK WE WANT IT KIND OF EVEN, AND THEN AT THE BOTTOM IT CAN BE, LIKE, DRIP.

WOMAN: A LOT OF SPAGHETTI STRAPS.

CHILD: A LOT OF FRINGE.

TANYA: YEAH.

YEAH.

NO, BUT LIKE...LIKE I JUST THINK THAT ANYTHING THAT'S LIKE FAT SHOULD HAVE SPECIAL CHARACTER.

YOU KNOW?

WOMAN: YEAH.

NOT JUST LIKE WHITE.

TANYA: YEAH.

I FOR 14 YEARS CROSSED THE BORDER EVERY DAY FROM 4-18.

CONSTANTLY GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN TWO VERY DIFFERENT WORLDS.

FOR A LONG TIME, IT WAS LIKE IDENTITY CRISIS.

IT WAS, YEAH, IT WAS PRETTY DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT, LIKE, WHERE I FIT IN, WHERE MY PLACE IN THE WORLD WAS.

SO I ENDED UP DOING FURNITURE DESIGN, AND MAINLY IT WAS BECAUSE I KNEW THAT IF I SPENT 80 HOURS ON SOMETHING, MY FAMILY KNEW IN THE END THAT IT WAS USEFUL AND THAT IT WAS LIKE WORTH SOMETHING.

CROSSING THE BORDER EVERY DAY AND SEEING HOW MUCH PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ON ONE SIDE, HOW MUCH OTHER PEOPLE HAVE ON THE OTHER SIDE, I JUST HAD A LOT OF ISSUES WITH ALLOWING MYSELF TO MAKE SCULPTURAL CONCEPTUAL WORK.

SO IT HASN'T BEEN UNTIL MORE RECENTLY THAT I'VE ALLOWED MYSELF TO BREAK FREE FROM FUNCTIONAL WORK.

POWDER AND WATER TO MAKE THEM A DIFFERENT COLOR.

SO WE'RE CUTTING ALL THESE STRINGS UP SO WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THAT THEY DRY REALLY WELL, SO THEY'RE DRY, LIKE YOU COULD TOUCH THIS ONE, IT'S DRY.

AND THEN THIS ONE IS REALLY WET BECAUSE WE JUST TOOK IT OUT OF THE WATER.

MY LIFE WAS REALLY TRANSFORMED BY SPENDING TIME IN CHIAPAS WORKING WITH MY WEAVERS AND SEEING HOW THEY MANAGE BEING MOTHERS AND MAKERS AND HEADS OF HOUSEHOLDS ALL IN THE SAME SPACE.

AFTER HAVING SPENT TIME THERE, MY WHOLE PRACTICE KIND OF GOT CHANGED.

LIKE, HOW WE CAN RELATE TO EACH OTHER AS WOMEN AND HOW WE CAN MAKE SAFER SPACE.

[SPEAKING SPANISH] YOU NEVER GET TALKED TO AS A WOMAN ABOUT, LIKE, SO MANY OF THE DIFFICULTIES OF BEING A MOTHER, ALTHOUGH LIKE INTENSE, LIKE, FEELINGS THAT YOU HAVE, ALL THE CRAZY THINGS THAT HAPPEN TO YOUR BODY, ALL THE CRAZY THINGS THAT YOU'RE PUTTING YOUR BODY THROUGH AFTERWARDS.

I WAS SEEING EVERY SINGLE THING WITH NEW EYES AND A NEW SENSE OF UNDERSTANDING.

I WOULD DESCRIBE THE SCULPTURES FOR MOTHER IN THE FORM AS OBJECTS THAT ARE LONGING FOR SOMETHING, OBJECTS THAT ARE DEPLETED, OBJECTS THAT ARE CODEPENDENT.

WHEN IO WAS BORN, IT WAS LIKE EVERYTHING WAS SUPER HARD, SO LIKE NURSING WAS SUPER HARD.

MY WORK WAS ABOUT BEING LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF POST-PARTUM DEPRESSION.

A LOT OF THEM WERE KIND OF NEST FORMS, EXPLORING THE BODY AS A VESSEL.

I THINK THIS ONE'S ALL GOOD.

THIS ONE HAS MY HAIR.

AND THIS ONE LOOKS LIKE MARISA'S HAIR, MY SISTER.

AND THEN THIS IS IO'S HAIR.

TO ME THE MOST CULTURALLY SPECIFIC, GENDER-SPECIFIC UNIVERSAL THING THAT ALL OF US HUMANS HAVE IS HAIR.

I HAVE JUST BEEN REALLY INTERESTED IN EXPLORING ALL THOSE IDEAS OF GENDER AND IDENTITY.

FOR "REINDIGENIZING THE SELF" WE USED MY HAIR, MY SISTER'S HAIR, AND MY DAUGHTER'S HAIR.

AND THEN SOME OF THE OTHER PIECES THAT ARE IN THE EXHIBITION ARE THESE MASSIVE PALAPAS THAT ARE COVERED IN SYNTHETIC HAIR.

THOSE PIECES HAD TO DO WITH FEELING LIKE AS A PERSON OF COLOR, BEING CONSTANTLY COMPARED TO, LIKE, THIS CLASSICAL IDEAL OF, LIKE, A BARBIE, LIKE, WHITE WOMAN.

SO IT'S PLATINUM BLOND HAIR WEAVE.

AS A CRAFT-BASED ARTIST, I, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN VERY USED TO MY WORK BEING SUBJUGATED INTO, LIKE, THINGS THAT LADIES DO OR LIKE ARTWORK THAT'S OFTEN MARGINALIZED OR DISCOUNTED BECAUSE OF THE MATERIALS THAT I CHOOSE AND THE TECHNIQUES THAT I USE.

AND AT A CERTAIN PLACE, I JUST GOT SO USED TO PEOPLE TRYING TO, LIKE, PUT ME INTO LITTLE BOXES, AND I WAS JUST LIKE, NO.

LIKE I'M NOT--NO.

I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I DO, AND IF YOU'RE DOWN WITH IT, AWESOME; AND IF YOU'RE NOT, LATER.

HELEN: IN THE HISTORY OF WESTERN ART, THERE ARE VERY FEW... RESPECTFUL, HOLISTIC, INTERESTING, COMPLEX IMAGES OF WHITE WOMEN IN A MATERNAL ROLE.

FOR QUEER WOMEN, FOR WOMEN OF COLOR, AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN, THIS--THIS IS ALMOST NON-EXISTENT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT BETYE SAAR'S WORK IS THAT WHEN BETYE SAAR MAKES WORK ABOUT THE STEREOTYPE OF THE MAMMY, ONE OF THE THINGS SHE'S POINTING TO IS THE IMAGE OF A BLACK WOMAN WHO WAS PAID TO TAKE CARE OF WHITE CHILDREN.

NAIMA: YOU THINK OF A MAMMY AS SOMEONE WHO IS IN COMPLETE SERVICE OF A FAMILY OR OF SOME OTHER PERSON, BUT WHEN YOU ARM THEM WITH A GUN OR WITH OTHER TYPES OF IMAGERY, THEY SUDDENLY BECOME SOMEONE WHO NEEDS TO BE LISTENED TO AND SOMEONE WHO NEEDS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AND IS SOMEONE WHO'S TIRED OF BEING IN THIS ROLE OF SERVITUDE.

HELEN: I WOULD SAY IN THE 21st CENTURY, ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL IMAGES OF THE MATERNAL IS CATHERINE OPIE'S 2004 "SELF-PORTRAIT NURSING."

IN THAT IMAGE WE SEE A LARGE FEMALE FIGURE WHO OCCUPIES ALMOST THE ENTIRETY OF THE FRAME.

HER CHEEKS ARE FLUSHED.

HER CHEST IS FLUSHED.

SHE IS GAZING AT THE CHILD.

SHE IS IN LOVE.

WHAT ONE CAN SEE CARVED INTO HER CHEST VERY FAINTLY IS A TATTOO THAT'S ALSO A FORM OF SCARIFICATION IN THIS VERY ORNATE SCRIPT, AND IT READS, "PERVERT."

SO TO SEE THIS PERVERT IS A TRIGGER, A MEMORY OF THE CATHY OPIE WHO BURST ONTO THE SCENE IN THE '90s AND GAVE US, AND BY US I MEAN US AS QUEER PEOPLE, US IN THE ART WORLD, SOME OF THE MOST POWERFUL IMAGES OF OUT LESBIANS THAT THE WORLD HAS.

JORI: I THINK WITH THIS ONE PHOTOGRAPH, CATHY OPIE DID MORE TO SHATTER THE TRADITION OF MOTHER AND CHILD PICTURES DONE THROUGH A MALE GAZE THAN ANY OTHER ARTIST IN SOME WAYS.

HELEN: RENE COX IS ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPHER WHO HAS MADE IMAGES OF HER PREGNANT BODY, AND IN COX'S WORK, THE IMAGE OF THE MOTHER IS OF A WARRIOR.

WHAT COX IS OFFERING US IS ALMOST AS IF HER BODY HAS NEVER BEEN STRONGER, THAT HER BODY IS NOT ONLY STRONG ENOUGH TO PROVIDE FOR ITSELF, BUT IT'S STRONG ENOUGH TO LITERALLY MAKE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

SO WHEN OPIE AND COX OFFERED THESE KINDS OF IMAGES INTO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN, THEY REALLY SHATTERED WHAT COULD BE SAID TO BE SORT OF HUNDREDS OF YEARS' WORTH OF ABSENCE OF THAT KIND OF IMAGE.

KENYATTA: I WOULD SAY THAT MY WORK IS ABOUT HOW THE BLACK FEMALE BODY NAVIGATES THROUGH GEOGRAPHY AND THE PERCEPTIONS THAT ARE PLACED ONTO THE BODY WITH AND WITHOUT YOUR CONTROL.

AND IT'S ABOUT THE RESIDUE OF HISTORY.

IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH POWER, NEGOTIATIONS OF POWER.

HOW DOES ONE PLACE A HISTORY AND IDENTITY ONTO YOU WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION, AND THEN HOW DO YOU REDEFINE THAT?

HOW DO YOU REMIX IT?

HOW DO YOU CHALLENGE IT?

HOW DO YOU LEAN INTO IT?

HOW DO YOU ROLL WITH IT?

A LOT OF MY WORK IS VERY EMOTIVE AND EXPRESSIVE.

A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH INTUITION, TOO.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW WITHOUT KNOWING?

A LOT OF THESE CONCEPTS AND IDEAS STARTED WHILE I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY SON.

I GRADUATED FROM CAL ARTS IN MAY, AND I FOUND OUT I WAS PREGNANT IN AUGUST, SO AT THE VERY KIND OF LAUNCH OF MY CAREER, ALL OF THESE WORKS AND THESE EMOTIONS WERE COMING THROUGH THIS VERY FEMALE EXPERIENCE.

I WAS READING MARYSE CONDE'S BOOK, "I, TITUBA: BLACK WITCH OF SALEM," WHILE I WAS PREGNANT.

EVERYWHERE I WENT, I FELT LIKE TITUBA.

SHE WAS IN THIS PURITAN, ALL-WHITE SOCIETY AND ALREADY DEMONIZED INHERENTLY BECAUSE SHE WAS THIS BLACK WOMAN.

WHEN I MADE THESE BRUSHES, I'D BEEN THINKING A LOT ABOUT BLACK WOMEN THROUGHOUT TIME AND HISTORY AND THIS IDEA OF RESOURCEFULNESS AND TAKING TOOLS AND THINGS AROUND YOU AND JUST REMIXING AND REIMAGINING THEM AND USING THEM FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES, AND BECAUSE IT'S NATURALLY MADE, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I CAN SEE OR FIND ANYWHERE ELSE.

IT'S FROM MY OWN BODY AND VISUAL LANGUAGE, IT'S FROM THE EARTH, SO I HAVE A LOT OF THAT REVERENCE WITHIN MY PRACTICE.

FOR ME, I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN, LIKE, DIFFERENT MODES OF ADDRESS.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL BUT JUST HAVE YOUR BODY TAKE UP THAT SPACE?

IN MY CURRENT SERIES THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING ON SINCE 2016, IT'S CALLED "THE EVANESCED," I WAS REALLY INSPIRED BY ACTS OF ERASURE, PERSISTENT ERASURES, ESPECIALLY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMEN AND WOMEN IN THE AFRICAN DIASPORA.

ACCORDING TO THE 2010 CENSUS, 64,000 BLACK WOMEN WERE REPORTED AS MISSING, DISAPPEARED.

SO FOR ME, THAT NUMBER WAS JUST, HOW DO YOU EVEN FATHOM THAT?

THESE WOMEN, THEY WERE MOTHERS, THEY'RE AUNTS, COWORKERS.

IT'S AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF LOSS.

WHEN "THE EVANESCED" OPENED, SO MANY PEOPLE WERE SENDING ME PICTURES OF THEM CRYING IN THE SPACE OF THE EXHIBITION, MAINLY BLACK WOMEN.

THIS IDEA OF OTHER WOMEN COMING INTO THESE WHITE CUBES AND THESE SPACES AND SEEING A REFLECTION OF THEMSELVES AND NOT ONLY SEEING A REFLECTION OF THEMSELVES, BUT A REFLECTION OF THEMSELVES IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY.

I THINK THERE'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT MY GENERATION OF ARTISTS, IT WILL FOLLOW US THROUGHOUT OUR CAREERS, THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES, THIS MOMENT THAT WE'RE IN.

YEAH, I WANT TO DO SOME MORE OF THESE.

WHEN I BECAME A MOTHER, THAT'S WHEN IT WAS, LIKE, FATIGUE STARTED COMING IN BECAUSE I STARTED THINKING ABOUT...HA HA!

YEAH, THAT'S WHEN I WAS BREASTFEEDING IN A HURRY.

LIKE, I FELT LIKE I WAS JUST ALL BREAST ALL THE TIME.

LIKE I WAS JUST MADE OF BREAST, AND THEN I WAS LIKE, BUT WAIT A MINUTE.

MY MOTHER'S BREAST, HER MOTHER'S BREAST, AND I STARTED THINKING ABOUT THIS KIND OF MATRIARCHY, JUST MAMA-HOOD.

IN COLLEGE AND HIGH SCHOOL, EVERY TIME I WOULD LOOK AT MY SHEROES IN THE ART WORLD, YOU BEING ONE OF THEM, I WOULD ALWAYS LOOK AND SEE IF THEY WERE MOTHERS.

WOMAN: YOU KNOW, THE CAREER, I THINK FLOATS.

WELL, YOURS HASN'T.

I KNOW FOR MINE I WAS SPENDING LESS TIME THIS YEAR.

I WAS MAKING LESS ART.

I WOULDN'T SAY THE CAREER SLOWED DOWN, BUT I WAS MAKING LESS ART, BUT YOU KNOW, I HAD MY MOTHER AS A MODEL, AND SO OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, SHE HAD ACID BATH IN THE KITCHEN AND, YOU KNOW, AND THE SAME THING.

WE HAD OUR LITTLE ART STATIONS FOR MAKING ART THE WHOLE TIME, AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GROW UP TO BE ARTISTS, RIGHT?

KENYATTA: MMM...HA HA!

JAHARI: [SINGING] KENYATTA: YOU SOUND SO GOOD, JAHARI.

I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS KIND OF NEGOTIATIONS OF WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME TO BE HERE?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME TO BE A MOTHER?

A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND.

IT'S A VERY MISUNDERSTOOD THING.

YOU'RE LIKE, I'VE GOT TO GO DO LAUNDRY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IF MY SON GETS HOME FROM SCHOOL, HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WEAR.

AND ALSO I HAVE TO GO TO THE STUDIO AFTER THAT, AND I ALSO HAVE TO DO ALL OF THESE VARIOUS THINGS TO JUST SUPPORT MY LIFE, AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THOSE INTERSECTIONS IF THEY DON'T HAVE KIDS, AND THEN SOME OF US HAVE EVEN DEEPER INTERSECTIONS.

CAREFUL!

WAIT A MINUTE!

WAIT A MINUTE!

WAIT A MINUTE!

WAIT A MINUTE.

WE GOT TO BE CAREFUL WITH THIS, OK?

SO I'M JUST GOING TO PAINT IN THE NEGATIVE SPACE, THE SPACE IN BETWEEN THE LETTERS, OK?

I FOUND BEING PREGNANT RIGHT AFTER GRAD SCHOOL, I FOUND IT HIGHLY CREATIVE.

I MEAN, YOU'RE LITERALLY GROWING A HUMAN IN YOUR BODY.

YOU'RE A 3-D PRINTER--HA HA--OF SORTS, AN ANCIENT 3-D PRINTER.

SO I GOT SO MUCH INSPIRATION FROM THAT.

THERE'S LIKE A REALLY BIG QUOTE THAT I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT.

EMMA AMOS, SHE SAID SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF WHEN SHE WALKS INTO THIS STUDIO AS A BLACK WOMAN, THAT'S A RADICAL ACT OF RESISTANCE, AND SO THINKING ABOUT THAT, THINKING ABOUT MY BODY, THINKING ABOUT MY PREGNANT BODY, THINKING ABOUT ALL THESE WAYS THAT I AM--MY BLACK PREGNANT BODY--THAT I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A CREATOR WITHIN THIS ART CANON.

YOU KNOW, ALL OF THESE KINDS OF CHALLENGES THAT DON'T ALLOW ME TO BE IN THE WHITE CUBE.

MY MOTHER WAS AN ARTIST, IS AN ARTIST, AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN INSPIRED BY HER, BUT SHE WAS AN ARTIST THAT WAS NEVER REALLY ALLOWED TO BECOME AN ARTIST IN THE WAY THAT SHE WANTED TO BECOME ONE BECAUSE SHE WENT TO SCHOOL WHEN THE BUSING HAPPENED IN KENTUCKY IN WHICH THEY HAD TO DESEGREGATE THE SCHOOLS, AND THIS WASN'T IN THE '60s.

THIS WAS IN THE '70s.

SHE HAD RACIST ART TEACHERS THAT WOULD RIP UP HER ARTWORK, AND SHE WAS NEVER REALLY ENCOURAGED TO REALLY TAKE HER ART AS FAR AS SHE COULD.

HEY, MAMA, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

CAN YOU CHECK YOUR TEXT MESSAGE?

I JUST SENT YOU AN IMAGE.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

MAMA: I SEE THE SMOKE COMING OUT OF THE BLACK SHADOW SILHOUETTE.

KENYATTA: YEP.

MAMA: WOW.

KENYATTA: YOU LIKE IT?

MAMA: WOW.

KENYATTA: IT'S REALLY FUNNY BECAUSE SHE'S LIKE, "NO, THAT AIN'T WORKING.

TRY SOMETHING ELSE."

HA HA!

SHE ALWAYS SAYS THAT SHE CAN WALK INTO A GALLERY OR A SPACE AND SHE CAN ALWAYS TELL WHAT'S MY WORK.

THAT REALLY CHANGED THE PIECE BY HAVING THE SMOKE COME OUT AS A SECOND FIGURE, AND IT DID SOMETHING REALLY NICE TO THE COMPOSITION, I THINK.

MAN, YOU ALWAYS KNOW WHAT SOMETHING NEEDS.

THAT'S CRAZY.

MAMA: I'VE GOT THAT EYE, GOT THE EARS!

KENYATTA: HA HA!

SHE'S JUST A REALLY INTENSE, POWERFUL WOMAN AND GIVES ME SO MANY PERMISSIONS TO GIVE THAT TO MY SON AS WELL.

JAHARI HAS THIS REALLY INTENSE ENERGY IN WHICH HE'S VERY SELF-POSSESSED, AND THE THINGS THAT ARE CHALLENGING ABOUT HIM ARE THE THINGS THAT I LOVE ABOUT HIM, THAT I WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER TRY TO TAKE AWAY, AND FOR ME, HE GIVES ME CONVICTION TO SAY WHAT I NEED, TO GO FOR IT, TO TAKE UP SPACE.

EVERY DAY IS AN INSTANT INSPIRATION JUST WAKING UP TO HIM.

THAT'S THE POINT OF THIS DOCUMENTARY, THAT'S THE NEED FOR IT, LIKE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE IN AN ART WORLD THAT THINKS THAT MAYBE THERE'S NO PLACE FOR MOTHERHOOD OR IT CAN'T BE POSSIBLE TO HAVE A SUCCESSFUL CAREER AND BE A MOTHER, OR THAT'S ALL THAT WOMEN SHOULD DO IS BE REGULATED TO MOTHERHOOD AND THAT'S IT.

HELEN: I THINK HISTORICALLY IT HAS BEEN BOTH RISKY AND BRAVE FOR A WOMAN ARTIST TO CLAIM HERSELF AS A MOTHER, TO EITHER MAKE WORK ABOUT HER MATERNAL FEELINGS, LABOR, DUTIES, OR TO INSIST THAT PART OF HER IDENTITY IS BOUND UP WITH MOTHERHOOD.

NAIMA: WHEN I FOUND OUT MY HUSBAND AND I WERE HAVING OUR GIRL, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO, I WAS NERVOUS, I THINK, ABOUT SHARING THE INFORMATION WIDELY BECAUSE I DIDN'T...OUTSIDE OF ACTUALLY ARTISTS WHO WERE MOMS, I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW AS MANY CURATORS THAT WERE MOMS, AND I WAS SO WORRIED THAT OPPORTUNITIES FOR TRAVEL OR ADVANCEMENT OR DIFFERENT JOB CONSIDERATIONS WOULD BE TAKEN AWAY FROM ME.

I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THE CONVERSATION IS WIDENED AND THAT WOMEN FEEL EMPOWERED TO MAKE ARTWORK THAT I THINK REALLY ALLOWS NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, MOMS, BUT ALSO WOMEN AND HOPEFULLY MEN AS WELL TO KIND OF SEE MOTHERHOOD AS THIS COMPLEX JOURNEY.

NICOL: WHY DON'T WE ASSUME THAT WHEN A PERSON BECOMES A PARENT THAT THEIR LEVELS OF HUMAN EXPERIENCE BECOME SO MUCH MORE COMPLEX AND EXPANDED THAT THEIR WORK SHOULD BE VALUED MORE, NOT LESS, THAT GALLERISTS AND CURATORS AND COLLECTORS SHOULD BE EVEN MORE EXCITED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEIR WORK AS A RESULT OF BEING A PARENT AND BEING ENGAGED IN THAT KIND OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.

JORI: IN SOME WAYS IT'S SHOCKING THAT MOTHERHOOD HASN'T MADE IT INTO THESE MAJOR EXHIBITIONS OR INTO ART HISTORY TEXT BOOKS IN A MORE EXPLICIT WAY.

IF WE LEAVE MOTHERHOOD OUT OF OUR HISTORY, WE'RE LEAVING A HUGE CHUNK OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE OUT OF IT AS WELL.

HELEN: IF WE UPPED OUR REPRESENTATION OF FEMALE ARTISTS IN THE MUSEUM BY 2020 TO 50%, THINK HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE WOULD BE MOTHERS, THINK HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE WOULD TELL US STORIES WE HAVEN'T YET HEARD.